Judging parents

[Father]

Since we're all in the mood for a poll:

[Fuchsia!]

There is no way i would circ my son as a baby or child. And yes i do judge those who do it to their child.

[Fuchsia!]

You should have put in the option for parents who circumcise and judge parents who don't.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I judge Dr's who perform it. I also do judge those with all the info and choose to go ahead.

Those who are ill informed, no I don't judge them, I feel badly for them and their children.

[Myztiks#1Fan]

i dont judge as i honestly couldnt care less whether boys are circed or not.

[BigRedV]

I judge Dr's who perfform it. I also do judge those with all the info and choose to go ahead.

Those who are ill informed, no I don't judge them, I feel badly for them and their children.

:iagree::yes:

[BigRedV]

You should have put in the option for parents who circumcise and judge parents who don't. :iagree:

[misskittyfantastico]

Hmm, I said in another thread, that my beef is with those medical "professionals" that perform RIC, NOT with the parents that choose this for their children. I feel quite angry at some of the myths and misinformation that some people I know have based their decision on. Do I judge them? No.

[MrJones&Me]

hmmm... vote in a public poll about judging, just so you can judge us? no thanks.

[Princess Drama]

I dont judge. Im a little shocked that so many people here do judge especially when most of those that are against circumcision say they dont judge the parents. Clearly they do.

I never knew people got this crazy over the subject. My best girlfriend has 2 boys and did them and I couldnt care less. Didnt really even cross my mind to judge her.

[CocktailBubba]

There should also be an option for patents who have but don't judge those who don't. We did, for reasons that were obviously good enough for us. I don't see why parents should be judged by their personal decisions because at the end of the day we all make choices for ourselves and our children with the best intentions, I did and dont feel the need to justify my reasons.

[nothanksbye]

I judge Dr's who perfform it. I also do judge those with all the info and choose to go ahead.

Those who are ill informed, no I don't judge them, I feel badly for them and their children.

I said I judge..but your answer explains it so well.

I would not judge the naive and ill informed.

[MummaBear03]

I judge Dr's who perfform it. I also do judge those with all the info and choose to go ahead.

Those who are ill informed, no I don't judge them, I feel badly for them and their children.

Same with me. Doctors know better, parents often don't know any better. But if they do, yes I do judge unless there was a medical reason that could not be worked around.

[bada]

I answered don't circ/don't judge but now I'm unsure, because although I don't judge them as bad people or bad parents I do judge them as misinformed, which isn't a mark against them, it just means they were unfortunate enough to receive the wrong information kwim? So if by "do you judge" you mean do I judge their character based on this one decision, the answer is most definitely no.

To me it's kind of a vague question, so I think the results will be skewed and ppl should try not to take offense from that. Perhaps you should try re-wording your poll to something a bit clearer eg "Do you think someone is a bad parent/person for circ'ing their child". I doubt many, if any actually think that.

[Princess Drama]

hmmm... vote in a public poll about judging, just so you can judge us? no thanks.

I would like to have seen it private. I doubt most people that judge would own up anyway on a public poll so I dont reckon the outcome will be true to life anyway.

[Hootenanny]

Don't agree with it, don't judge people IRL who do it, most people who do it consider they have good reasons and have the best interests of their children at heart. I think like most ingrained practices it takes a while for people to stop doing something.

[Fuchsia!]

I think if you stand by your opinion 100% then you won't care what others think.

[MrJones&Me]

The problem is in the questions.

They, plus the public poll, leave you open to 'attack' by OP.

[The Girls Only Club]

I personally dont care whether parents circumise or not.

[CocktailBubba]

I'm on a phone so not sure how to quote on the mobile version of bh. I don't care what other people think, clearly that's why I can say ds had been circ, I just don't know why people need to judge. I would never want to make such a decision for another parent or guilt them for making the decision. Also I've never ever had anyone say anything to me In real life and would tell them to mind their own if they did. But on the net, I don't take things to heart :)

[Father]

There should also be an option for patents who have but don't judge those who don't.

Sorry. I guess I just assumed that no one that did would judge someone who didn't.

Maybe the mods can add a button?

Feel free to make mention of that if you fit that case.

[Janesmum123]

That is the only parenting choice I judge.
As for the ill informed who on earth would take their baby to have a surgical procedure and not research it.
It's pretty disturbing that this "procedure" is done in 2010.
I firmly believe that with time and education this practice will stop.

[bada]

Originally posted by Father
Sorry. I guess I just assumed that no one that did would judge someone who didn't. I *think* this poll has been done before and indeed there were ppl who thought badly of those that don't circ.



As for the ill informed who on earth would take their baby to have a surgical procedure and not research it. I think that's quite harsh. I think most of our parents probably did just that, because they believed what the professionals told them. Doctors have a position of power and I don't think badly of anyone for trusting their doctor, it is just unfortunate that they get a misinformed doctor :(

[Janesmum123]

I *think* this poll has been done before and indeed there were ppl who thought badly of those that don't circ.

I think that's quite harsh. I think most of our parents probably did just that, because they believed what the professionals told them. Doctors have a position of power and I don't think badly of anyone for trusting their doctor, it is just unfortunate that they get a misinformed doctor :(

Hey I'm just answering the question honestly.
It's what I think and so that's what I wrote.
But I am refering to babies circ now not 20 or 50 years ago when the information wasn't available.

[1+1=5]

don't circ, don't judge *sigh*

[CocktailBubba]

Oh it doesn't really bother me about that option being there or not- I just assumed that if there was to be a poll there should be an option for each view if that makes sense.

[Phyllis Stein]

I don't judge parents for choosing circumcision, per se, though I might feel critical of the reasoning, or lack thereof that led them to the procedure. I definitely don't make value judgements, of the "you're a bad person" variety, based on circ.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I'm entirely reluctant to vote on the poll. It's a little too simple to be able to accurately reflect complex opinions.

How are we defining "judging"? Human beings are programmed to make hundreds of micro-judgements all day every day. We all make assessments, otherwise there would be chaos!

I judge the practice of RIC. I believe this unnecessary surgery to be at the core of the debate, not individuals that have chosen this for their children. Personalising the debate helps no one. :no:

[serendipity22]

How are we defining "judging"? Human beings are programmed to make hundreds of micro-judgements all day every day. We all make assessments, otherwise there would be chaos!

Makes perfect sense to me.

Its politically incorrect to judge, but its how the mind works to make decisions.

I like to distinguish between a person and their behaviour. Someone IMO might make a poor decision, but that doesn't make them a bad person.

[jellea88]

I can't bring myself to ever circ my son or any that would follow. and while I don't judge anyone who does, I get very frustrated at friends who complain to me that they can't help their bub through the pain because they are too young to be given Panadol.

:hair: It just does my head in - If you are going to complain that bubs is in pain DON"T DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, you brought this on him YOU deal with it!

[serendipity22]

I get very frustrated at friends who complain to me that they can't help their bub through the pain because they are too young to be given Panadol.

Well, if they are too young for Panadol they are certainly too young to be circed...

[Benji]

I didn't consider circumcising my boy but I would circumcise him in a heartbeat if he had genuine medical issues that required it.

I don't judge parents who do, whatsoever.

I do, however, find that you Father are incredibly judgemental of those who do not circumcise their sons. Some of the rants that you go on are to try to make mothers like me feel as if our sons are going to end up HIV infected, UTI infestered human beings because we left the decision of circ up to our sons.

[Blonde Assassin]

You should have put in the option for parents who circumcise and judge parents who don't.

:iagree: Pretty limiting poll options!!

[Lemonhead]

I voted that I would not circ and yes, I do judge those who do (if not medically necessary).

[Father]

I do, however, find that you Father are incredibly judgemental of those who do not circumcise their sons. Some of the rants that you go on are to try to make mothers like me feel as if our sons are going to end up HIV infected, UTI infestered human beings because we left the decision of circ up to our sons.

Benji. I'm sorry that you have taken it that way. I would not judge a parent who has made a decision not to circ at all. It is THEIR child, and therefore THEIR decision. Not once have I said that parents SHOULD circ. I am merely trying to dispell the constant flow of myths that is thrown out on this forum in an attempt to make those parents who HAVE circ'd feel bad about their decision.
I am all for parental choice. Whether that is vax, smacking, or circ'ing.

[Father]

Pretty limiting poll options!!

As I said. I'm sorry I forgot a forth option. The mods may be able to add one?
In the meantime, feel free to comment if you do fit into the 'circing and judging' category.

[bada]

I am merely trying to dispell the constant flow of myths that is thrown out on this forum in an attempt to make those parents who HAVE circ'd feel bad about their decision. Puhlease! What is the point of making someone feel bad about their decision? You know very well why most speak out about the wrongs of ric, it's in the interest of educating others and hopefully saving any other males from being circumcised without their consent. You know this. Don't be ridiculous.

[SalTheGal]

*sigh* I hate these kinds of threads.... :gloomy:

I hate it because I chose to Circ my sons... i have my reasons, I generally choose not to enter into them here- but the one thing I really dislike is that these threads make me feel ostracised- there are so many members who are anti RIC, who I really respect and like.... I wonder if they met me IRL they might actually like me too- but here knowing my choice- does that mean that when they see me around on the forum- they go 'oh no, there's one of those horrible mums who chose to lop off part of her son's penis.... horrible mum'????

I often actually hesitate in engaging with certian members in other areas of the forum simply because I wonder if they think badly of me for this choice, and therefore would not like me to enter into their discussion... it really plays on my mind a lot!

I researched it, I am not naive, therefore I am JUDGED... plain and simple... You know what- sometimes Parenting sucks, and sometimes parts of this forum Suck- please remember that there are really mums and dads on the other side of that screen, that maybe.... just maybe are not such bad and horrible people after all. :gloomy: :gloomy:

[nothanksbye]

*sigh* I hate these kinds of threads.... :gloomy:

I hate it because I chose to Circ my sons... i have my reasons, I generally choose not to enter into them here- but the one thing I really dislike is that these threads make me feel ostracised- there are so many members who are anti RIC, who I really respect and like.... I wonder if they met me IRL they might actually like me too- but here knowing my choice- does that mean that when they see me around on the forum- they go 'oh no, there's one of those horrible mums who chose to lop off part of her son's penis.... horrible mum'????

I often actually hesitate in engaging with certian members in other areas of the forum simply because I wonder if they think badly of me for this choice, and therefore would not like me to enter into their discussion... it really plays on my mind a lot!

I researched it, I am not naive, therefore I am JUDGED... plain and simple... You know what- sometimes Parenting sucks, and sometimes parts of this forum Suck- please remember that there are really mums and dads on the other side of that screen, that maybe.... just maybe are not such bad and horrible people after all. :gloomy: :gloomy:


:hugs::hugs::hugs:
I can so see your point and I am so sorry that this thread causes you to feel so horrible.

When i say I judge, it doesnt mean I think what a horrible person or a bad parent.

I mean it in the loosest possible way.
Same way I would judge a parent who uses different discipline to me.
At the end of the day it would never make me dislike the person...just that I would go ..ohh ok thats not something i would do...

[SalTheGal]

Father, I have edited the poll options....

I also took the liberty in making it a private poll- I think you are more likely to get more responses this way, (I for one will not vote in a public poll).... if you would like me to change it back to public, let me know.

[Fuchsia!]

SaltheGal (and others)-

There is a difference in judging someone and disliking/hating them.

I judge someone because i hate the practice of it, i can't believe someone would do that to their child without their consent. But that doesn't mean i don't like the person, they can have a million other qualities that i may like, circumcising maybe just one aspect i don't like and judge for.

Everyone judges someone for something, whether its the way they dress, that they are overweight, underweight, the way they speak to their child, to what they feed their child, if they smack, or if they don't, if their child is naughty or wild, or if they are quiet and shy, if someone is nasty or too nice. Everyone has something they can be judged upon.


Doing one bad thing or even a couple of bad things, doesn't make you a bad person or a bad mum.

[Pippi Longstocking]

*sigh* I hate these kinds of threads.... :gloomy:

I hate it because I chose to Circ my sons... i have my reasons, I generally choose not to enter into them here- but the one thing I really dislike is that these threads make me feel ostracised- there are so many members who are anti RIC, who I really respect and like.... I wonder if they met me IRL they might actually like me too- but here knowing my choice- does that mean that when they see me around on the forum- they go 'oh no, there's one of those horrible mums who chose to lop off part of her son's penis.... horrible mum'????

I often actually hesitate in engaging with certian members in other areas of the forum simply because I wonder if they think badly of me for this choice, and therefore would not like me to enter into their discussion... it really plays on my mind a lot!

I researched it, I am not naive, therefore I am JUDGED... plain and simple... You know what- sometimes Parenting sucks, and sometimes parts of this forum Suck- please remember that there are really mums and dads on the other side of that screen, that maybe.... just maybe are not such bad and horrible people after all. :gloomy: :gloomy:

I'm sorry you feel that way. :shakehands: I really do try to remain mindful that circumcision is a really sensitive topic. I know there are some bubhubbers that have circed their sons and have later come to regret it and I really empathise with them - it's acutely painful for all of us to realise we've made mistakes while parenting. And speaking of parenting - when my children are doing somehting I find undesirable, I always try to focus on the behaviour rather than the child. I don't tell my children that they are naughty or bad but instead highlight that it is the behaviour I don't like. I feel the same way about parents that circ - it's the RIC I object to, not the parent making that choice for their child/ren.

I have no intention of deliberately hurting other parents. :no: That is not my goal at all, on any level. My intention is to question, to educate, to get people to reflect and to make choices they will be unlikely to regret or worse, their children will regret.

[susieq1969]

I don't judge parents who have their son's circumsised, BUT I don't understand why they do it?
I don't understand why you would mess with what nature gave you?


Does that make sense?

[Hootenanny]

*sigh* I hate these kinds of threads.... :gloomy:

I hate it because I chose to Circ my sons... i have my reasons, I generally choose not to enter into them here- but the one thing I really dislike is that these threads make me feel ostracised- there are so many members who are anti RIC, who I really respect and like.... I wonder if they met me IRL they might actually like me too- but here knowing my choice- does that mean that when they see me around on the forum- they go 'oh no, there's one of those horrible mums who chose to lop off part of her son's penis.... horrible mum'????

I often actually hesitate in engaging with certian members in other areas of the forum simply because I wonder if they think badly of me for this choice, and therefore would not like me to enter into their discussion... it really plays on my mind a lot!

I researched it, I am not naive, therefore I am JUDGED... plain and simple... You know what- sometimes Parenting sucks, and sometimes parts of this forum Suck- please remember that there are really mums and dads on the other side of that screen, that maybe.... just maybe are not such bad and horrible people after all. :gloomy: :gloomy:

I don't agree with the RIC 'movement', I know that parents make the decisions they think are best for their children and would never think less of a parent for doing that. I always try to be mindful of those parents when discussing the issues in circumcision. I do however have no problems refuting claims which may lead future parents to circumcise their children when those claims are either unfounded, over exaggerated, irrelevant or inconsequential. I think no less of you because of your decision and am sorry that others at times do make it very personal.

[Prankish]

I don't judge parents who have their son's circumsised, BUT I don't understand why they do it?
I don't understand why you would mess with what nature gave you?


Does that make sense?

Of course it makes sense. All parents are different, they are allowed to think to themselves if they see or hear something that from their perspective makes no sense, but when a parent takes a more active approach instead of a passive approach, and approaches the parent they have a qualm with and express their opinions, that parent is a complete idiot and I never hesitate to give my own two cents in if another parent tries to tell me what to do. Even if a parent thinks their doing the right thing by passing what they think their own ‘wisdom’ across to a complete stranger, I never take kindly to those sorts of people regardless of their intentions. When another parent comments that my daughter looks beautiful and precious, I am their best friend because I see that as *totally different*.

There are things some parent’s do that make no sense to me, and there are things I do that other parents can't make sense of either. It's all just the way it is.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

When someone tells me they circumcised their son, I think of them as being behind the times.

I feel it's an awful thing to have done to you when you are a tot, but I realise it's usually in the context of a loving home and wellmeaning parents, so that's taken into account.

[delirium]

*sigh* I hate these kinds of threads.... :gloomy:

I hate it because I chose to Circ my sons... i have my reasons, I generally choose not to enter into them here- but the one thing I really dislike is that these threads make me feel ostracised- there are so many members who are anti RIC, who I really respect and like.... I wonder if they met me IRL they might actually like me too- but here knowing my choice- does that mean that when they see me around on the forum- they go 'oh no, there's one of those horrible mums who chose to lop off part of her son's penis.... horrible mum'????

I often actually hesitate in engaging with certian members in other areas of the forum simply because I wonder if they think badly of me for this choice, and therefore would not like me to enter into their discussion... it really plays on my mind a lot!

I researched it, I am not naive, therefore I am JUDGED... plain and simple... You know what- sometimes Parenting sucks, and sometimes parts of this forum Suck- please remember that there are really mums and dads on the other side of that screen, that maybe.... just maybe are not such bad and horrible people after all. :gloomy: :gloomy:

:iagree: Really sad that 16 members judge parents on their decision. Yet those same people are up in arms over judgements of some of their parenting choices. After so many anti circers telling me they don't judge me I now know that some of those do (I saw the poll before it went to private).

I'm a bit different though Sal. I honestly couldn't give a hoot if people judge me or what they think about me. If someone either on here or IRL didn't want to get to know me based on my decision to circ then that says more about them than me.

Really disappointing but not surprising.... and to answer the poll, I have circed and no way I would judge those that don't circ.

[Hootenanny]

Of course it makes sense. All parents are different, they are allowed to think to themselves if they see or hear something that from their perspective makes no sense, but when a parent takes a more active approach instead of a passive approach, and approaches the parent they have a qualm with and express their opinions, that parent is a complete idiot and I never hesitate to give my own two cents in if another parent tries to tell me what to do. Even if a parent thinks their doing the right thing by passing what they think their own ‘wisdom’ across to a complete stranger, I never take kindly to those sorts of people regardless of their intentions. When another parent comments that my daughter looks beautiful and precious, I am their best friend because I see that as *totally different*.

There are things some parent’s do that make no sense to me, and there are things I do that other parents can't make sense of either. It's all just the way it is.

If a stranger came up to me and started questioning my parenting and telling me what they think I should be doing they wouldn't get a very good reception from me either. I know many people IRL who have circumcised their children and would NEVER criticise their choice.

However on this forum (and probably others) there are people who come on here saying how great RIC is and spouting all of the benefits, I think people come to a forum for information and help and I will not ignore what I consider to incomplete or unproven 'information'.

[delirium]

If a stranger came up to me and started questioning my parenting and telling me what they think I should be doing they wouldn't get a very good reception from me either. I know many people IRL who have circumcised their children and would NEVER criticise their choice.



Then why do it here? Or is it so much easier to bag people's decisions when you don't say it to their face and are behind a screen?

[CocktailBubba]

Then why do it here? Or is it so much easier to bag people's decisions when you don't say it to their face and are behind a screen?
Of course it's easier to judge sitting behind a screen :) I circ and what other people think really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that people can actually say they 'judge' parents based on something that really has nothing to do with them. Sure I know I have my opinions on other peoples parenting but I would NEVER let them know on the net or in real life. Unless I'm absolutely perfect which I am not, who am I to voice my opinions knowing that it would hurt other parents who do 'their' best to raise 'their' children.

[delirium]

Of course it's easier to judge sitting behind a screen :) I circ and what other people think really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that people can actually say they 'judge' parents based on something that really has nothing to do with them. Sure I know I have my opinions on other peoples parenting but I would NEVER let them know on the net or in real life. Unless I'm absolutely perfect which I am not, who am I to voice my opinions knowing that it would hurt other parents who do 'their' best to raise 'their' children.

Same here. Even on the subjects I'm passionate about, I seperate the person from the act or choice I disagree with and try to remember they have a right to their own actions and beliefs and they are real people with feelings.

It's a shame those that call for empathy on subjects that are important to them then judge others here.

[Hootenanny]

Then why do it here? Or is it so much easier to bag people's decisions when you don't say it to their face and are behind a screen?

I am not bagging their decisions, I am opposing the questionable information being purported as godsend in the hope that others will look deeper. I am arguing the validity of their information, which is something I'm sure you yourself would also have done.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

What bothers me is that people can actually say they 'judge' parents based on something that really has nothing to do with them. Sure I know I have my opinions on other peoples parenting but I would NEVER let them know on the net or in real life. Unless I'm absolutely perfect which I am not, who am I to voice my opinions knowing that it would hurt other parents who do 'their' best to raise 'their' children.

I realise that those who circ are doing what they feel is right, however IMO it is a human rights issue and I believe protecting the human rights of children is everybodies business.

[Opinionated]

Same here. Even on the subjects I'm passionate about, I seperate the person from the act or choice I disagree with and try to remember they have a right to their own actions and beliefs and they are real people with feelings.

It's a shame those that call for empathy on subjects that are important to them then judge others here. We all judge. I am sure there is some acts where you could not seperate the person from the act. I am not targetting you Delirium, I know we have differing view that I respect, but I think this is a pc response which is actually not totally true. I am sure that if someone intentionally caused your child harm (knock on wood) that you would not be able to seperate person from act, kwim?

[Hootenanny]

This was always going to be a divisive and upsetting exercise and I won't be conned into entering into such a thread again, I don't think putting good parents through unnecessary pain does anything to further your cause and I think there may be others who should also look at their motivations.

[CocktailBubba]

But see, a few of us have said we did our own research to justify our decisions to ourselves, and to say that we have been conned by the bs out there can be presumed that u think that we must be so foolish, which is not the case. I could easily say I feel sorry for parents who chose not to circ and children who havnt been but I really don't care what other people do, it wouldn't change anything for them or myself.

[Prankish]

I am sure that if someone intentionally caused your child harm (knock on wood) that you would not be able to seperate person from act, kwim?

I am fairly certain that would be very illegal.

[CocktailBubba]

"somebody" intentionally causing harm to my child is very different to my partner an myself making the informed decision to have our child circ.

[Travdan]

This was always going to be a divisive and upsetting exercise and I won't be conned into entering into such a thread again, I don't think putting good parents through unnecessary pain does anything to further your cause and I
think there may be others who should also look at their motivations.

There are real people behind these screens
who feel very strongly either way and it is not helpful to be playing people off against each other to prove a point.

If people judge, then so be it. If they don't, fabulous. That's just how they feel, and everyone has their reasons for thinking the way they do. But this is doing nothing to encourage understanding.

Just my opinion.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

But see, a few of us have said we did our own research to justify our decisions to ourselves, and to say that we have been conned by the bs out there can be presumed that u think that we must be so foolish, which is not the case. I could easily say I feel sorry for parents who chose not to circ and children who havnt been but I really don't care what other people do, it wouldn't change anything for them or myself.

My personal belief (from extensive research) is that most pro circ stuff out there is put forward by people from or with close links to circumfetish sites.

The fact that the Royal Australian Paedatric Association does not endorse circing and there is a alot of evidence to suggest it is uneccessary cosmetic surgery, makes me very suspicious of those who push for it and I do wonder what their motives are.

[Hootenanny]

There are real people behind these screens
who feel very strongly either way and it is not helpful to be playing people off against each other to prove a point.

If people judge, then so be it. If they don't, fabulous. That's just how they feel, and everyone has their reasons for thinking the way they do. But this is doing nothing to encourage understanding.

Just my opinion.

I have not judged, nor have I played people off on one another. I have argued the 'facts' that have been put up for discussion, I am sure you wouldn't want people to put information up that isn't correct or doesn't tell the whole story and then have others make decisions based upon that.
Circumcision is just one of numerous issues I post about, it is but one part of who I am as a person. I find it sad that there are people pushing one agenda which has led to many good parents, who are valued contributors on a variety of subjects on this forum, feeling hurt.

[CocktailBubba]

When u say your suspisious of the motives of those who push for circ, who do u actually mean.. Parents or doctors? I certainly don't push for or against it,
what other ppl do is their business. What do u think their motives could possibly be? Genuine question, I really enjoy seeing another persons point of view and hope u don't see my replies as rude or anything.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

When u say your suspisious of the motives of those who push for circ, who do u actually mean.. Parents or doctors? I certainly don't push for or against it,
what other ppl do is their business. What do u think their motives could possibly be? Genuine question, I really enjoy seeing another persons point of view and hope u don't see my replies as rude or anything.
Dr's are genarally against circumcision and you won't find many that advocate circing these days.

As I said before my personal research has led me to believe that a lot of pro circ info is pushed onto unsuspecting parents wanting to do the best for their child. However the info is usually very bias/ outdated. it is often pushed by people involved with or with links to circumfetish organisations.

That means that some people pushing for circ sadly have fetishes relating to circumcision.

It makes me quite ill.

[~Candy~]

It's only HERE that I have seen the whole pro and anti circ thing pushed and shoved and judged....not IRL.

[CocktailBubba]

What you have said makes me quite ill also as I would imagine it would make anybody feel that way. Your probably right that people pushing for circ could have those fetishes because I don't think anybody should be pushing for or against something like this. Info is out there for ppl to research and make the own mind up about it, af hopefully that's what people do.

[Opinionated]

What you have said makes me quite ill also as I would imagine it would make anybody feel that way. Your probably right that people pushing for circ could have those fetishes because I don't think anybody should be pushing for or against something like this. Info is out there for ppl to research and make the own mind up about it, af hopefully that's what people do.

The problem though is the research materials that people are using. I would advise people to steer clear of internet based research on this topic. If you can get into a university library somewhere and access proper research, you may be in with half a chance.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

The problem though is the research materials that people are using. I would advise people to steer clear of internet based research on this topic. If you can get into a university library somewhere and access proper research, you may be in with half a chance.
:iagree:

[Travdan]

Luvmyboys, that wasn't directed at you, I was agreeing with you. I took from your post you didn't think this thread was helpful, and I was agreeing. Sorry if I misinterpreted you.

[delirium]

This was always going to be a divisive and upsetting exercise and I won't be conned into entering into such a thread again, I don't think putting good parents through unnecessary pain does anything to further your cause and I think there may be others who should also look at their motivations.

So your saying it's the Op's fault that a third of anti circers admit to judging? Plus there was a thread maybe a year ago,started by an anti circer on exactly the same topic and I was shocked as to the amount of members that openly admitted to judging.

So it really doesn't matter who starts the thread, the result is the same.




As I said before my personal research has led me to believe that a lot of pro circ info is pushed onto unsuspecting parents

wanting to do the best for their child. However the info is usually very bias/ outdated. it is often pushed by people involved with or with links to circumfetish organisations.
That means that some people pushing for circ sadly have fetishes relating to circumcision.

It makes me quite ill.

This whole circ fetish thing is a bit overboard I think. Sure, some rampant pro circers may be weirdos. Many are not. But some anti circers spend their whole day talking about forskins and penises, could that be argued a fetish or obsession too?

As for my bolded part - many people do actually research quite a bit. To say they are unsuspecting almost denotes needing to be protected bc they don't have the ability to make the decision themselves. I for one can make my own decisions. I more than have the ability to work things out for myself as you do. I have read a fair bit of research and it is no more than 3 years old.

[CocktailBubba]

But there are so many anti and pro circs...actually you pretty much are one or the other lol that their would be biased info anywhere you look for it. Surely a researcher or writer who publishes a book against circing would obviously be stating all the cons against it and vise versa. That's why I say people make choices within themselves believing they are making the 'right' decision as such, and who is anybody to try and tell them they are 'wrong' . I honestly don't think there is a straight right or wrong when it comes down to something like this.

[Travdan]

Also, I felt that the point of this poll was to upset people to further the ops cause, and that is not fair. Again, I totally agree with your points. I guess what I was trying to say is base your (not you personally) arguements on their merits, there is no need to stir people up. For any issue, not just circ.

[~Candy~]

How do ppl know if a boy is circ or not (not talking about on the pc, but IRL)...unless you speak up and ask (even then, no-ones bussiness)?
Do the circ'd boys act differently?
Talk differently?
Walk differnetly?
Unless you are a sticky beak or a perve, how would you know in the first place to even judge?

That's what I find sick!

[delirium]

I honestly don't think there is a straight right or wrong when it comes down to something like this.

You are new here. You'll realise in time that there is a right answer and only one - that cric is wrong and anyone that does it is uneducated, violent and abusive to their child. Prepare yourself to have your motives, beliefs and actions constantly questioned and degraded. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg of this subject on BH.

[CocktailBubba]

Haha awww thanks for the heads up, it's really such a shame that obviously you've been in situations on bh that have made you feel the way you do- thats not (I'll throw the holy word in there) 'right' in my opinion though I havnt been offended by any post regarding circ yet. It's actually been interesting discussing it though I'm sure none of us will change our minds about it :) and candy my ds hmm no he doesn't know how to walk- only run and there is a fair chance that he talks too much, but not differently! He's the happiest little chap I know :)

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

This whole circ fetish thing is a bit overboard I think. Sure, some rampant pro circers may be weirdos. Many are not. But some anti circers spend their whole day talking about forskins and penises, could that be argued a fetish or obsession too?

As for my bolded part - many people do actually research quite a bit. To say they are unsuspecting almost denotes needing to be protected bc they don't have the ability to make the decision themselves. I for one can make my own decisions. I more than have the ability to work things out for myself as you do. I have read a fair bit of research and it is no more than 3 years old.

If they are making decisions on misinformation pushed by people who do not have the best interests of the child in mind, then yes I'd say they have been misled.

I would put it to you that in the media and online a lot of the stuff for pro circ comes from people who have ties with circumfetish web sites. These are people who admit to having a fetish.

Not quite the same as a person who believes a person should have the right to decide for themselves.

[delirium]

If they are making decisions on misinformation pushed by people who do not have the best interests of the child in mind, then yes I'd say they have been misled.


This topic is like groundhog day - YOU think it's misinformation. Open your mind that other people can have different opinions to you and are entitled to them.

I can't beleive the judgements here and how some people get all upset about certain judgements on racism, PND, breast feeding in public but are more than happy to turn that judgement on others on topics they see fit. It's all so hippocritical.

Anyhoo, keep justifying people's judgements. Next time when members cry judgement on a particular topic remember that feeling, it may make you a bit more accepting next time these threads roll around.

[SixtiesChild]

What I find an eye opener upon stumbling onto this thread is that, the same people that critisize others for judging people on controversial matters in other sections of BH are doing just that themselves in this thread.
Talk about having double standards! :o:o:o

I would NOT circ my child but I RESPECT those parents that, for whatever reason do just that.
It's not my decision but that of the parents.

[nothanksbye]

What I find an eye opener upon stumbling onto this thread is that, the same people that critisize others for judging people on controversial matters in other sections of BH are doing just that themselves in this thread.
Talk about having double standards! :o:o:o

I would NOT circ my child but I RESPECT those parents that, for whatever reason do just that.
It's not my decision but that of the parents.


lol but then you judge me for judging...its a vicious circle isnt it?

I could have lied and said nooo I never judge.
But its a lie. I dont hate a person I dont think badly of them..

To judge:
To form an opinion or estimation after careful consideration.

i hear that someone circed and I think...I would not do that.

You actually judge, when you decide not too...:D

You listen to the info and make an informed decision, that you wont judge.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

This topic is like groundhog day - YOU think it's misinformation. Open your mind that other people can have different opinions to you and are entitled to them..
Sure they can, however I view it as a human rights abuse and don't believe it should be available at all.



I can't beleive the judgements here and how some people get all upset about certain judgements on racism, PND, breast feeding in public but are more than happy to turn that judgement on others on topics they see fit. It's all so hippocritical.

I don't believe circumcision is comparable to racism, however I do judge people for being racist never said I didn't. What I usually say about those people who are being racist is that they are unempathetic and making sweeping generalisations.:)


Anyhoo, keep justifying people's judgements. Next time when members cry judgement on a particular topic remember that feeling, it may make you a bit more accepting next time these threads roll around.:confused:

[delirium]

Sure they can, however I view it as a human rights abuse and don't believe it should be available at all.


That all fine, you can believe whatever you want. But please allow others to have their opinions too.


I don't believe circumcision is comparable to racism, however I do judge people for being racist never said I didn't. What I usually say about those people who are being racist is that they are unempathetic and making sweeping generalisations.:)I don't mean judging the racists, I mean the racists making judgements on aboriginals, how much money they supposedly get :ecomcity: Many people were very upet at how judgemental they were and said so. Then those same people are happily judging us.

I remeber a thread here talking about putting context on why people act and think like they do rather than branding them with nouns and and placing generalisations on them. That's what I'm talking about.

Please have respect for those here that aren't weirdos, have carefully decided, and are good parents, despite you disagreeing with their decision. Tolerance lets call it.


:confused:I don't see the confusion. What I am saying is next time some of the people here that voted they do judge, are offended bc someone is judging their right to bf in public, smack/not smack, not vax etc, they should remember that feeling. It may make them a little more understanding in these circ threads when they come upagain.


What I find an eye opener upon stumbling onto this thread is that, the same people that critisize others for judging people on controversial matters in other sections of BH are doing just that themselves in this thread.
Talk about having double standards! :o:oExactly my point ;)

[delirium]

lol but then you judge me for judging...its a vicious circle isnt it?



What else is there to do? Allow you to judge us? If there wasn't judgement to begin with I'd have nothing to judge? :p and really, I wouldn't call it judgement, I'd call it disappointment that you and other can't look past your own opinions and see the context here. Again have some tolerance.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

That all fine, you can believe whatever you want. But please allow others to have their opinions too.
I disagree with people just as you often do, i never said they wern't entitled to their opinion, however I can think they are 100% wrong.



I don't mean judging the racists, I mean the racists making judgements on aboriginals, how much money they supposedly get :ecomcity: Many people were very upet at how judgemental they were and said so. Then those same people are happily judging us.

I like to believe they are ignorant, and again hardly the same thing.


I remeber a thread here talking about putting context on why people act and think like they do rather than branding them with nouns and and placing generalisations on them. That's what I'm talking about.
I allready clarified my position, I am not generalising about anyone.


Please have respect for those here that aren't weirdos, have carefully decided, and are good parents, despite you disagreeing with their decision. Tolerance lets call it.
I don't see why people should have to sit back and tolerate what they see as a human rights violation just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt. I can't respect that decision and that is just the truth.



I don't see the confusion. What I am saying is next time some of the people here that voted they do judge, are offended bc someone is judging their right to bf in public, smack/not smack, not vax etc, they should remember that feeling. It may make them a little more understanding in these circ threads when they come upagain.

I don't really feel "judged" and I really don't mind.

I am happy to have my views challenged.

[nothanksbye]

What else is there to do? Allow you to judge us? If there wasn't judgement to begin with I'd have nothing to judge? :p and really, I wouldn't call it judgement, I'd call it disappointment that you and other can't look past your own opinions and see the context here. Again have some tolerance.

You are not reading my posts are you?

How is it intolerant for me to say ...No I would not do that.

Some of my dearest friends have circ'ed boys.
I dont dislike them. I dont hate them.
I just think wow I would never do that.

I didnt realise that I had to be ok with everything. I am the same with loads of things and I am sure you would judge some of my parenting choices...I have no problem with that. You are entitled to.



would it be better to lie?

[susieq1969]

You are new here. You'll realise in time that there is a right answer and only one - that cric is wrong and anyone that does it is uneducated, violent and abusive to their child. Prepare yourself to have your motives, beliefs and actions constantly questioned and degraded. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg of this subject on BH.

Hang on a sec, you said in an earlier post

"Really disappointing but not surprising.... and to answer the poll, I have circed and no way I would judge those that don't circ."

So which is it?

[bada]

lol but then you judge me for judging...its a vicious circle isnt it?

I could have lied and said nooo I never judge.
But its a lie. I dont hate a person I dont think badly of them..

To judge:
To form an opinion or estimation after careful consideration.

i hear that someone circed and I think...I would not do that.

You actually judge, when you decide not too...:D

You listen to the info and make an informed decision, that you wont judge.Exactly. As you said judge means "To form an opinion or estimation after careful consideration." That's what we all do. We all form our opinion on circ. Saying that because someone is judging circ wrong they are judging anyone who does it, is ludicrous just as ludicrous as me saying that because someone judged circ right, that they are judging me for not circ'ing.

[delirium]

This will be my last post in this section, so I hope I get my point accross adequately.



I don't see why people should have to sit back and tolerate what they see as a human rights violation just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt. I can't respect that decision and that is just the truth.

We've done this dance sock. I also believe abortion is a human rights violation. But I still don't judge those women. SO does that mean I shouldn't 'sit back and tolerant it' too? and don't say it's a different subject. You get my point. You have 2 sets of rules. and I'm not personalising anymore than you are before that gets said. I am pointing out what I see is quite an obvious incongruency which is effecting how you and I interact.


I don't really feel "judged" and I really don't mind.

I am happy to have my views challenged.But you are very vocal (which I agree with) about people judging on other parenting or life subjects.

Or is it pick and choosing when it's okay to be tolerant according to your beliefs? Bc that's how it seems. Up in arms over judgement in some areas, more than happy to judge and support others judgements in others.


You are not reading my posts are you?

How is it intolerant for me to say ...No I would not do that.

Some of my dearest friends have circ'ed boys.
I dont dislike them. I dont hate them.
I just think wow I would never do that.

It is not intolerant to dislike circing, it's intolerant to judge people on that choice, which I noticed you do according to the poll, right? I have no problem with you saying you wouldn't do it. Not a worry there at all. But you are saying more than that. Have you told your dear friend that you actually judge her decision? I suspect not.


I didnt realise that I had to be ok with everything. I am the same with loads of things and I am sure you would judge some of my parenting choices...I have no problem with that. You are entitled to.


would it be better to lie?Please see above. Disagreeing doesn't have to equal judgement. You voted that you did judge. There's a difference.



Hang on a sec, you said in an earlier post

"Really disappointing but not surprising.... and to answer the poll, I have circed and no way I would judge those that don't circ."

So which is it?

I just spent 10mins re reading what you are referring to and I still don't get what you mean? Anyway, it doesn't matter, I won't be opening this thread from now on anyway, so need to clarify.

[nothanksbye]

It is not intolerant to dislike circing, it's intolerant to judge people on that choice, which I noticed you do according to the poll, right? I have no problem with you saying you wouldn't do it. Not a worry there at all. But you are saying more than that. Have you told your dear friend that you actually judge her decision? I suspect not.

y.

She is my dear friend. no need to be rude.

Yes she knows how i feel about circing and she is cool with it.

I think you are attaching your own judgements to how I judge.

I am not being cruel or nasty. i just do evaluate and look at their choics and think i would never do that.

[CocktailBubba]

Ok, so I enjoy a good discussion just like anyone else, and I understand that we all have different opinions on the 'choices' that are perfectly legal, that we make for our children.
BUT- While I respect the fact that other people have a different opinion on the topic than I do, it does not and will not change my opinion on the topic, just as I don't expect anyone to change their opinion on the topic based on MY own reasons- and not one time have I said anything against those who chose not to circ- only that there is no reason to judge because it won't undo what we have chosen to do and it won't change my mind (I don't know about others) But people really need to be more mindful that any parent would not go through with any kind of procedure without doing their own research beforehand to determine whether it's really something they want to do. I'm not a stupid careless mother (I know no one has said that) but so many of the replys pretty much imply that those who do chose to circ could not possible have a valid reason to do so, which is not true.

[KatiesMum]

to be totally honest - this kind of thread really helps no-one.

People here are not helping each other, not changing or challenging anyones ideas or exchanging information, not posting helpful or supportive posts - or even constructive criticism.

All it is here is people criticising each other - for either their choices, or their opinions, or the way they share said opinions (and that includes me criticising everyone in this thread :p)


As a result - I am closing this thread. :shakehands: