View Full Version : Childcare for "socialisation"reasons?
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 22:40
Ok, I realise that this one may get a little heated, so pleas try to be civil and remember that everyone has a choice:
Why do so many parents feel it is necessary to put their children/toddlers into daycare/ELC/etc. for socialisation reasons, ie. more fun activities, speech development, less reliant on mummy, etc.?
This is not a question directed a mums who need to return to work genuinely for the $$, but those who do it "for a day to themselves", etc. Just curious, not looking down at you, my SIL does the same, love her to bits.
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
Or is it the whole "parent/mummy guilt" thing, that makes you feel the need for a reason?
As I said no judgement, I just find that the majority of mums who use childcare for "free time, social reasons, etc."seem to need a 5 min sprout on how good it is.
If someone asks if im sending DS or what school he's going to, etc and I say no, or Im homeschooling, unless they ask why, i just dont see the need for justification.
Is it just me, or is it that awful "mothers guilt" that leads to the reasoning? If it is, that sucks as you should be comfortable with your decision, either way, even if it is for "selfish" reasons.
supa_star323
05-02-2010, 22:44
I feel extremely guilty for putting my ds in daycare, but he has a lot of delays and was not making a lot of progress doing intensive therapy at home with me. Since being in daycare he has made huge progress, and this is enabling me to go to uni and build our future. I originally started him on the suggestion of therapists, and can see for him particularly, that is has been invaluable.
I think "socialisation" is just an excuse to get the kids away from them for a day. its not a reason.
However going to work or study is a reason...
I will be honest and say I put my son, who has ADHD and as a toddler had major tantrums ALL DAY LONG in day care.. because i needed the break
but i also had him in playgroup etc etc etc
my other kids did playgroup as well and that was enough.
Daycare however has never been a positive experience for any of my children the times that i did try it.
mind you my son did love Day Care Mums.. the ones that do it in their home.
but the centres did not do anything to help him socialise or my girls.
the girls i only tried them in for a month at the most each. none of them benefited from it in a social sense.
MummaBear03
05-02-2010, 22:49
If 3 year olds are hiding in the corner sexually exploring one another, I'd be questioning the level of supervision and taking my child out.
Myztiks#1Fan
05-02-2010, 22:51
i put coop in daycare originally to give myself a break and yes to play with other kids. i dont exactly have friends who have children. the only people i know who have children are the bh ladies and thats it. plus he could also get alot more out of daycare than what i could of done for him at home if i was a SAHM which i am glad i am not as i would hate it.
I put my son into Child Care mostly for the socialisation aspect and I don't feel guilty about it at all. He is doing a 3yo kinder program there and is developing in leaps and bounds since he started attending. He is a little 'spirited' so I am not at all ashamed to say that I also put him there for the break.
I work nightshift on weekends... so child care during my working hours isn't available. So I personally think I'm entitled to a day of child Care just like every other daytime-working mother.
For the record, I live in the very outer sububs of Melbourne... so a shortage of child care places is not in issue around here. He'll only be there for this year anyway and then he'll move onto a traditional 4yo kinder.
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 22:56
The reason I posted this was actually due to some discussions IRL today one with SIL, nothing to do with anyone on here and anyways, it is a question relating to why should a mum feel guilty, if she wants a day off, why should she have to justify it, if i dont want to put my kids into care, why should i have to justify it?
And also, is "socialisation" a legitimate benefit?
i put my 3 year old into 1 day of daycare because children of that age need to interact with children of their own age. i do study full-time but its still not something we HAVE to do, its something we chose to do with our kids when they turn 3. it makes transition into kinder easier and they both loved it. if they are not happy, i would not take them. i do not have time for playgroups or mothers groups (which i tried when i was part-time but the women were horrid at two different groups).
soooo putting kids into daycare for socializing and giving them something different to do, after the age of 3 is not a cop out, its based in research.
~BEXTER~
05-02-2010, 22:58
Putting a child into daycare for social skills is not a excuse it was a very BIG PART of the reason my daughter started at 2.
she was a only child and we never had anyone visit, she never had another child to play with and didn't want to play with me she didn't talk and had a lot of delays.
Starting daycare was the best thing I did for my daughter and I will be doing the same thing for my unborn son too.
Keiara now love playing kids, is good at sharing and I think alot of that is because of Daycare.
SassyMummy
05-02-2010, 22:58
I don't really care what people think of me sending DD to daycare tbh.
I started sending her to give myself a break. She was 3.5 when she first started going. Before about 3-ish, I wouldn't have thought it could offer her much and thus didn't use it.
I had no intention of ever needing it, but it got to a point where I felt I needed it.
After I split with DD's father, he was nasty to me. He was horrible to me. He said somethings which I believe encouraged me to stop eating (I stopped eating, then I started again and instead would purge...). I dropped about 27kg in 2-3 months - not healthy!
I then moved out of home with my mother (where I was staying after the split), and in with some friends. Who started doing drugs in our house. At that point my mother had no spare room at her house anymore (someone else had moved in to the tiny room DD and I had been sharing), and so I moved in with my new bf who I'd only been seeing for about 2 months. Him and his parents.
DP's mother had regular care of her 2 grandchildren - a newborn (at the time) and a girl a month older than DD. DD had never had much one-on-one time with a peer before, and was pretty bad when it came to interacted with her. She was quite dominant and aggressive.
I was living away from my mother (who was pretty much all the true support, apart from the bf, who I had left).
I was going a bit nuts really, and I started to hate that DD was making my living situation difficult (it was really generous of DPs family to allow us to move in... and so I felt horrible that DD was attacking DPs niece all the time).
I sent her off to daycare. She was SO reliant on me, to the point of screaming blue murder if I wasn't within her sight at all times. She obviously had no idea how to interact properly with other children. I needed a break - and I did use some of the time DD was in care to see a psychologist.
Honestly - that break was needed. Desperately. I think I would have had a mental breakdown without it. It's not like I was getting a break from DD's father - who pretty much vanished as soon as we split and now lives overseas.
I have used daycare for work too - but that was not why I originally started DD in daycare.
Sometimes, looking from the outside in, it can seem like parents are doing it for selfish reasons. I mean, I spent some of my childfree days going to the movies or going shopping or whatever. Sure, I enjoyed going shopping, enjoyed the movies... but part of me doing this was also on the advice of my psych who wanted me to go out more, to focus on ME a little more, etc.
I still get my break from DD each week, but it's not as important to me now. SHE enjoys going though, and I'm not going to stop her. I don't know any kids apart from DPs niece (who has now started prep as she's on one side of the cutoff and DD is just on the other), so it's a chance for her to play, a chance for her to learn and do new things that I can't do (I mean, where am I going to find chickens for her to watch hatch?)... etc.
I've never seen or heard anything questionable going on there - certainly no sexual exploration in a corner. The room is very open - there are no hidden dark corners anyway.
DD also gets to interact with other children - certain hours of the day, the younger children and kids of DDs age interact... DPs 19-month-old nephew goes there and gets to see DD on Thursdays, despite being in different rooms.
She also gets to interact with people from different backgrounds - there is a Somalian family who attend, there are Asian families and Aboriginal families - different people to the standard "white folk" that I know IRL (I have a very small social circle...lol).
I don't think children SHOULD go to daycare, but I don't think they shouldn't either. I think it can be beneficial, for both mother/father and child.
I believe it to be so in my case anyway - DD is no longer a bully and can actually interact with others, so is better with me being out of sight, and I am glad to get time off every so often.
WorkingClassMum
05-02-2010, 22:58
flicker :hugs:
brogeybear
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
is that what you think CC is all about?
How abouts you investigate CC a little more before you stick your size 8's in your mouth
you are obviously compleatly ignorant of the quality of care that MOST CCC's provide
MummaBear03
05-02-2010, 22:59
I don't think I would have used it for reasons other than work, but have looked after many, many children over the years who were there for a variety of reasons.
One mum had ID twins and felt they needed one on one time with her so she put one in one day and the other in another day and for the first 4 weeks both were a mess and their mum nearly pulled them both out. Then they settled into it and made friends and their mum said that the one who was at home with her on a particular day would be so excited for that time with Mum all to herself, and the other would be excited about seeing her friends that day.
We have other kids who are put in the year before school started for 3 days a week during normal school hours to get them used to a routine so that when they started full time it wasn't too much to get used to all at once.
Those are just a couple of reasons other than work/study that people use childcare.
Answering the OP.
Yes I did put one of children in daycare for socialisation one day a week for a year. I knew that their was something wrong with her social skills ( being my 3 rd child) but I didn't quite know what. It really helped. It turned out see has autism.
ladybugblue84
05-02-2010, 23:04
Well I work (so I guess in some peoples eyes it's ok I send my DD to DC) & I still find socialization a good thing about sending my DD to childcare. They probably do stuff there that I don't do at home & she probably learns different things there about the world & what it's all about!
Yea I do still feel guilty about having to send her & I question everyday if I'm doing the right thing, if she's in the right centre, if her teachers are treating her good, that I'm leaving my DD with practical strangers but on the other hand I'm getting used to it & so is she. I'm starting to trust her teacher & I'm thinking about going in on days I don't work to get to know the centre so it's more comfortable for me to see what she gets up to.
Comments like 3 year old sexually exploring each other doesn't really help anxious mums like myself but I'm sure that never happens with proper supervision AND I reckon 3 would be too young for that anyway!
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:05
I don't really care what people think of me sending DD to daycare tbh.
I started sending her to give myself a break. She was 3.5 when she first started going. Before about 3-ish, I wouldn't have thought it could offer her much and thus didn't use it.
I had no intention of ever needing it, but it got to a point where I felt I needed it.
After I split with DD's father, he was nasty to me. He was horrible to me. He said somethings which I believe encouraged me to stop eating (I stopped eating, then I started again and instead would purge...). I dropped about 27kg in 2-3 months - not healthy!
I then moved out of home with my mother (where I was staying after the split), and in with some friends. Who started doing drugs in our house. At that point my mother had no spare room at her house anymore (someone else had moved in to the tiny room DD and I had been sharing), and so I moved in with my new bf who I'd only been seeing for about 2 months. Him and his parents.
DP's mother had regular care of her 2 grandchildren - a newborn (at the time) and a girl a month older than DD. DD had never had much one-on-one time with a peer before, and was pretty bad when it came to interacted with her. She was quite dominant and aggressive.
I was living away from my mother (who was pretty much all the true support, apart from the bf, who I had left).
I was going a bit nuts really, and I started to hate that DD was making my living situation difficult (it was really generous of DPs family to allow us to move in... and so I felt horrible that DD was attacking DPs niece all the time).
I sent her off to daycare. She was SO reliant on me, to the point of screaming blue murder if I wasn't within her sight at all times. She obviously had no idea how to interact properly with other children. I needed a break - and I did use some of the time DD was in care to see a psychologist.
Honestly - that break was needed. Desperately. I think I would have had a mental breakdown without it. It's not like I was getting a break from DD's father - who pretty much vanished as soon as we split and now lives overseas.
I have used daycare for work too - but that was not why I originally started DD in daycare.
Sometimes, looking from the outside in, it can seem like parents are doing it for selfish reasons. I mean, I spent some of my childfree days going to the movies or going shopping or whatever. Sure, I enjoyed going shopping, enjoyed the movies... but part of me doing this was also on the advice of my psych who wanted me to go out more, to focus on ME a little more, etc.
I still get my break from DD each week, but it's not as important to me now. SHE enjoys going though, and I'm not going to stop her. I don't know any kids apart from DPs niece (who has now started prep as she's on one side of the cutoff and DD is just on the other), so it's a chance for her to play, a chance for her to learn and do new things that I can't do (I mean, where am I going to find chickens for her to watch hatch?)... etc.
I've never seen or heard anything questionable going on there - certainly no sexual exploration in a corner. The room is very open - there are no hidden dark corners anyway.
DD also gets to interact with other children - certain hours of the day, the younger children and kids of DDs age interact... DPs 19-month-old nephew goes there and gets to see DD on Thursdays, despite being in different rooms.
She also gets to interact with people from different backgrounds - there is a Somalian family who attend, there are Asian families and Aboriginal families - different people to the standard "white folk" that I know IRL (I have a very small social circle...lol).
I don't think children SHOULD go to daycare, but I don't think they shouldn't either. I think it can be beneficial, for both mother/father and child.
I believe it to be so in my case anyway - DD is no longer a bully and can actually interact with others, so is better with me being out of sight, and I am glad to get time off every so often.
Thanks for a very insightful and genuine reply.
Just for the record OP... my child care centre is FABULOUS !! My sons carer is just the best... we love her :) The centre is nothing like you initially described and if it WERE like that, then I would pull him out in a heartbeat.
Emsmum85
05-02-2010, 23:05
I love my Tuesdays, I love my little girl's Little Friend's Days! I love that she adores her teacher, who only earns $240 a week but adores my daughter back! I adore hearing my daughter sing songs that I've never heard her and she's learning at Day care. Why does someone else need another's "reasons" if it doesn't affect you?
The suggestion that ccc= quasi sexual abuse B/w kids is pretty out there.
I work days,my DH works nights,Thus insures there is ALWAYS someone home to look after our children!
We get NO help from family members.MY MIL does not work AT ALL but does not babysit my kids.MY bro and sis work FULTIME but will babysit my kids when they have free time
I have put my DS1 in childcare for "socialising" reasons,He has been going 2-3 days a week from 20 months until now(4 years)
I have NO regrets!!I NEVER question myself as a mother.I did it coz it offered him more than I could offer at home.And call me selfish but sometimes it is nice to enjoy reading a book and sipping a coffee in peace while I enjoy a little ME time!!!!Wow how selfish of me,prob exactly the same time he is sharing toys with a friend,or painting a nice picture or playing a game.How is he missing out??:rolleyes:
Myztiks#1Fan
05-02-2010, 23:07
i also want to point out that in my sons room at daycare, there are 2 staff members to 10 children allowed. usually no more han 8 kids in the room so i dont think they have to 'fight' for that one on one attention as i know coop gets plenty of that
My SIL put her daughter into childcare for two half-days per week from the age of 2 - 3 1/2....she did this so that 1) she got a bit of time to herself on Mondays and Fridays and 2) So that her daughter could socialise and interact with other little ones her age.
I don't see a problem with that and I can see doing the same thing myself down the track.
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:11
regarding the sexual stuff, it happened at my very close friend private child care/kindy.
As for why pwople need to give reasons, thats my whole point. why is there the need for justification on things like this, and flicker, kar think its you who is being debating here, not me.and im certainly not getting all high and mighty....you havent heard me on my soap box yet LOL
melbryan
05-02-2010, 23:15
I am tipping this thread will be closed pretty soon, Dh and I had this talk the other day why are these forums ant-bottle feeding, anti-mummy working, anti-disposable nappy, anti childcare and anti everything else.??
Everyone has different ideas on what is best for their child. People who send their children to childcare for a break feel gulity because other mothers look down on them for doing it.
They'd be no gulit if society didn't look down on mums who try to work, look after kids and do everything else. I think those attitudes need to change first. There needs to be a balance. I have friends who could not part with their kids no matter what age, others like me like to have a balance to I can make mummy happy most of the time to. My kids are benefitting from me when I am miserable.
In answer to the OP if you spent a day with my kid or even an hour you would say that child needs daycare not a crazy mother who is at her wits end and has no other help so puts her child with other kids and people who love kids(yep I have found one of those childcare centres).
I took my boy to school for the first time this week other kids were crying so being 6 and parting from mum doesnt' mean their not ready for school. Does that mean most mums will say , well he doesn't like this place I'll take him out , hr'd not ready for it.
Just my opinion anyway.
SassyMummy
05-02-2010, 23:17
I don't generally explain my reasons unless someone asks.
I'll do a, "DD is in daycare today," and leave it there unless they want to know more.
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:19
Thats what I like SassyMummy. That is where my point is getting at. I dont judge anyone for putting their kids in, so I dont know why I get an earful of justification everytime the topic comes up.
To be honest I never thought to question people why they put their kids in daycare?
I didn't realise it was such a big deal to some people. Not sure why it would be.
sockstealingpoltergeist
05-02-2010, 23:20
I don't care.
I felt I sent my DD not early enough and my DS to early.
No one really knows if they will cope well being a mum and given the lack of help for mums and the isolation they can feel I don't care if they do or don't. It's up to them.
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:20
Yes Nurse to Be, prob would have been smart. It was really shocking and was undetected for a long time!
Celeste77
05-02-2010, 23:23
I have only just started my DD 2.5 at kindy one day a week for socialisation. She is such an outgoing girl and loves playing with other kids.
We do playgroup and she has another friend 6 months younger than her that she sees every week but she really lights up and gets excited when she goes to kindy.
I am not sending her to kindy so I get time to myself because I still have my DS who is almost 1 with me. In my opinion he is way too young to go to CC (unless it was necessary).
My DD LOVES going 1 day a week and I enjoy being able to spend some one on one time with my son too.
Misheycat
05-02-2010, 23:24
My DH keeps telling to to steer clear of BH especially for these types of threads, oops I'm here again reading :o. In the past the anti-the anti-that threads have bothered me, but after this week of rude comments IRL I'm a bit over it and have don't care attitude towards people's judgements.
This week is my DD's first week in CC (DH returned to work full-time, previously he was a SAHD and I have been working full-time for the past 9mths as I had stable employment). I've felt very guilty but financially we are struggling and so at this stage it seems like the best idea for our family.
My DD will be 18mths old next week and at this stage says no words other than random babble which is a big enough concern in itself.
I'm kinda hoping the socialisation will assist her with her speech, but I'm not going to rely on it either. Would be nice though and would help with the guilt factor. Hoping she will benefit from the care in some way.
I am tipping this thread will be closed pretty soon, Dh and I had this talk the other day why are these forums ant-bottle feeding, anti-mummy working, anti-disposable nappy, anti childcare and anti everything else.??
Everyone has different ideas on what is best for their child. People who send their children to childcare for a break feel gulity because other mothers look down on them for doing it.
They'd be no gulit if society didn't look down on mums who try to work, look after kids and do everything else. I think those attitudes need to change first. There needs to be a balance. I have friends who could not part with their kids no matter what age, others like me like to have a balance to I can make mummy happy most of the time to. My kids are benefitting from me when I am miserable.
In answer to the OP if you spent a day with my kid or even an hour you would say that child needs daycare not a crazy mother who is at her wits end and has no other help so puts her child with other kids and people who love kids(yep I have found one of those childcare centres).
I took my boy to school for the first time this week other kids were crying so being 6 and parting from mum doesnt' mean their not ready for school. Does that mean most mums will say , well he doesn't like this place I'll take him out , hr'd not ready for it.
Just my opinion anyway.
:iagree:
i am not wasting my time on this thread anymore.
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:30
Sweetchoe - my DH is the same, i just like the stimulating coversation! i remember talking to you when you first decided to do it and i think it will work out well for you!
littlemissmum
05-02-2010, 23:30
I am a Group Leader in a Child Care Centre and work full time, my son attends 3/4 days a week.
I used to think why would you put a child into kindy if you didnt have to untill I got into this field and had a son of my own attend.
The things he learns have been invaluble, from a young age he was able to sit and participate in group times and discussions and learn patience and sharing. He has been introduced to Counting, shapes, colours, Letters, science experiments, pre writing etc and yes I also do this at home but he has been introduced to it in a classroom setting and been exposed to "lessons" His social skills are very well developed though his interactions with his classmates.
The teachers write detailed observations on him individually and in a group setting and program activites that extend and encourage his personal development. Some of the things he has learnt in the class I cannot possibly teach him at home.
I have spoken to numerous prep teachers who can tell almost immediately if a child has been to day care or not when they begin at school.
I actully feel for the children that start prep and have never had to sit on a mat with a class or know what a group time or a transition is or have not had to wait their turn or do activities in pairs or groups working together. School can be daungting enough and I feel I can help introduce these things to my child before begining school.
This week alone my child has witnessed a chicken hatching program, planted a vegtable garden which is a 9 week ongoing lesson which they do class work, drawings etc about, has had a german language class and a tennis sport lesson and he is only 3yrs (4in June)
In saying this I do not judge any parent who doesnt want to send their child to kindy as this is THEIR choice and no I am not saying it is essential just how I feel and how it has worked for my family.
Also to say a child will be 'picked on' or 'hiding in a corner sexually expolring each other' to be extremely insulting as a a child care teacher. And the staff to child ratios you stated were also incorrect and illegal.
I only have 8 weeks untill I give birth to my next child and am feeling very guilty that I wont be able to send my DS to kindy while im on maternity leave (I am hoping even if money is tight we can send him one day a week still)
Anyway I will stop my novel as im sure it wont make any difference to you ideal of a child care centre anyway....
jakeandrubysmum
05-02-2010, 23:30
I actually just signed my 18month old into daycare for 1 half day per week for exactly that - socialization... I believe he needs to spend time around more kids and since he adores other kids, I thought it would be great for him...especially since just lately he has been chucking tantrum after tantrum, so I really think he needs more different activities, a different enviroment and other kids to play with. Its only 5hrs a week and it will also give me some one on one time with my 8month old daughter... He goes for his first time on Wednesday and if he is not happy being there then I will pull him out - its as simple as that, but I know he will love it.
I said I'd never go back to work because I didn't want DS in child care and I also couldn't bare to be apart. I got a job that enabled me to work and have DS full time. Rarely ever was I away from him for longer then an hour to work and he was with his Dad or my parents so it was perfect. All done while he was tucked up in bed. However work got more hectic and I had more things to do. I was gonig to scale back but DS has the vocabulary and mental ability of a 3-4 year old at only 2.
I weighed up the pros and cons, I had DS on the waiting list so when he started prep he would be able to go to a Montessori center. I spoke to them and enquired about a half a day a week. A couple of months later I got a call and he had a spot. I took a lot of time to think and stress and decide. Ultimately we don't see a lot of other children, if ever and DS is very intellegent and I felt he needed some more. His school is also teaching spanish and DH and I were looking at getting him lessons so we decided to give it a go.
DS has been there a month, I cry when I drop him off and miss him so much. I drop him off at 9am and run around like a mad woman until 1pm getting all my work done so that I don't have to tell my son a few times a day - scuse me sweet Mummy is on the phone, please be quiet. DS has started talking to children instead of hugging them super tightly and hurting them (not on purpose) He loves kids but didn't know how to treat them. I tried to explain but he'd get too excited to listen. Now I take him to a play ground and he plays and chats.
So yes I did take him because I was working but also for social and extra learning. He's well above a lot of children in his room but can't be moved until he's a certain age so they teach him independently. Do I feel guilty? Yes. Why? Because I always thought the way you did. I thought why on earth is it necessary the best place is with Mum or Dad and I agree. I thought CC was a joke to be honest and figured parents used the socialisation argument as a cop out too :footinmouth:. Silly me. I learnt though because I was faced with a situation where I felt DS needed more and I could benefit with work.
I don't feel guilty because deep down I'm sending him to get rid of him for the day because if that was the case I'd save myself the $60 and send him to his Nana's who spends 5 days a week nagging to have him. I could have him with my mother full time during the week if I needed or wanted, she's offered me plenty of times but I ache when his gone and I don't find him difficult or challenging at all( well 99% of the time) However I feel guilty because I never imagined having to go back to work and I never imagined I'd leave him for an hour let alone 5 per week.
Do I believe I'm doing the right thing? Yep. Do I think Montessori is awesome? Yes. DO i think it's benificial? Yes. Do I justify it, never, unless asked why. If I'm asked I just saying because I'm working and they have a fantastic educational programme that DS, DH and I love. That's all nothing more, nothing less.
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:33
littlemissmum - no i appreciate your imput paricularly as a childcare worker. The sexual thing DID occur, expained in pp..sorry if i had ratio wrong, that was info from the mum.
To be honest,I feel sorry for kids that have ONLY been at home with a SAHM for 5 years.Mums just get on their high horse,thinking its the best for their kids to be at home 24/7 with THEM!
Then they get to school,and just dont know how to cope.,
Heaven forbid going to childcare for socialising:rolleyes:How horrible for them:laughing:
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:36
Awesome post Leisa21!
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:38
Chels - I agree, it would be wierd if the child ONLY ever spent time with mum, but there are many ways to socialise a child, particularly if you have a good social group, join a library, go to childrens activities, etc. while still being able to personally supervise and care for them. They definitely need to interact with other kids AS WELL as adults.
Also to add, I really don't care why someone puts their child in care. I don't know their child, I don't know them. I have no right to judge. I used to TBH and now I feel like a piece of you know what. I thought goodness there is no way a 2 year old could gain from being put in a room with a million other children. I was wrong so now when I hear about a child in care, I don't even think of anything except how much DS loves his few hours a week at school.
MummaBear03
05-02-2010, 23:39
To be honest,I feel sorry for kids that have ONLY been at home with a SAHM for 5 years.Mums just get on their high horse,thinking its the best for their kids to be at home 24/7 with THEM!
Then they get to school,and just dont know how to cope.,
Heaven forbid going to childcare for socialising:rolleyes:How horrible for them:laughing:
Wow, judgemental much?
I'm one who probably wouldn't have used it for reasons other than work but we did so many other things that she wouldn't have had a problem starting school. Having worked with children for so long, just as many kids from daycare struggle as those who were at home full time til school age.
SassyMummy
05-02-2010, 23:41
Chels... I was with my SAHM until I was nearly 5, at which point I started school. I really enjoyed it and had no issues fitting in at school or leaving my mother. I was pretty laid back.
My brother also stayed at home with Mum until he was ready for school, at which point he freaked out and carried on and cried and whinged and b*tched...
I think there's more to it than just whether or not a kid attends daycare.
(My mother was also a Family Day Carer so we had other kids at our house from a young age).
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:42
yeah judgemental, but hey i was accused of same, so meh. everyone has right to choice, and for SOME families, home with mummy is best, for SOME families daycare is best.
To be honest,I feel sorry for kids that have ONLY been at home with a SAHM for 5 years.Mums just get on their high horse,thinking its the best for their kids to be at home 24/7 with THEM!
Then they get to school,and just dont know how to cope.,
Heaven forbid going to childcare for socialising:rolleyes:How horrible for them:laughing:
depends on the mum doesnt it? some mothers are amazing earth mothers that the rest of us can only aspire to be...
if i had a mum like that i would never want to socialise :laughing:
brogeybear
05-02-2010, 23:55
Ok well im off now...i think...so we'll se if this is still here in the morning. If not, thanks for those with genuine feedback, to those who were offended, i think that proves WHY i posted, all the unnecessary (IMO) justification of decisions, anyway nitey nite.
Has this thread been edited? I don't see that it is that controversial TBH...
CC is a personal choice. It is not for every child, nor every family. Neither is school..that is why there are so many different models out there.
I tried DD out with CC last week (FDC). She lasted ten minutes, nine more minutes than her Mummy. I worked in a specialist CC field before becoming a Mother, and so I am not anti-CC, just anti it for us.
We "see" kids every day...swimming, Mother's group, story time, playgroup, cousins..but my dear little babe would love to have her own tribe. At the shops today, she kept waddling off with other families..families with lots of children in them. It's heartbreaking. All my baby wants is a bigger family. I was thinking if she went to FDC, she would have kids to play with, but she wants Mummy and kids. Actually, I don't know what she wants. She's a baby. I can only guess.
*babygirl*
06-02-2010, 00:16
I don't know about anyone else but DD loves her childcare... She originally started when I went to uni when she was 10 months old but now she loves it she learns so so much and everyday her teachers tell me that she is so keen to learn! Seeing her develop things from others as well as myself is beautiful to me her confidence around everyone is getting better everyday and she is miles ahead of children her age, I think to limit her to the same four walls at home everyday would be counterproductive! We love our childcare and it's not for me and a 'day off' because I get bored without her and I can't ever leave her there for more than 5 hours at a time!
To be honest,I feel sorry for kids that have ONLY been at home with a SAHM for 5 years.Mums just get on their high horse,thinking its the best for their kids to be at home 24/7 with THEM!
Then they get to school,and just dont know how to cope.,
Heaven forbid going to childcare for socialising:rolleyes:How horrible for them:laughing:
Thats down right rude and judgemental, I choose not to judge others and there reasons for doing things, as I have no idea what is best for there child just as they have no idea what is best for mine.
IF they cant cope at school at school age what makes you thnk they would of coped at a younger age.
whats good for one may not be good for another.
BitterSweet
06-02-2010, 01:22
My daughter will be going to the ABC center in about 3 weeks for 2 days a week. Why you ask?? Because she want's to. She has been bugging me since DS started school last year that she wants to go to school to and the ABC learning center is as close to school as I can get her.
And yup I am looking forward to having a break 2 days a week although it won't be to much of a break I will still have my 2 year old at home and one due in may.
I don't feel guilty at all :no: and I don't even feel guilty for using it when I do not work there are heaps of place left in her class so if a working mum needs care there is still room for them to put there child in.
And yes I believe that a child in some sort of learning center/ child care center will benefit in the socializing department (that's not to say that those who don't go won't be able to socialize).
Seacretsquirrel
06-02-2010, 01:52
I have just started DD (3) at a 3yr old kindy and today was her 3rd day she seems to be loving it after a few initial tears when I leave she is fine. I have a 11 months old DS and to be honest I am looking forward to some one on one time with him and I feel that it is beneficial for her to be with other children her own age (rather just me and DS) I love being a SAHM and think that I do a lot of good stuff with the kids but it is also good for them to interact with others and as most of my GF's work and theuir kids are either a good yr older or younger than DD a few new friends the same age is a good thing.
Boobycino
06-02-2010, 06:34
I think childcare can be quite beneficial for children who are older and ready for it. Lots of them absolutely love it and get heaps out of it. Quality is key though! But thats another story.
I dont think mother guilt is the only reason parents say or think this. I've talked to mums who feel guilty because they HAVEN'T put their child in daycare feeling like their child is missing out on that experience.
So I dont think mother guilt is the exclusive domain of the mother with a child in childcare.
At the end of the day though, I simply dont judge. I cant judge really. I'm a full time mum and a part time childcarer. Which works wonderfully for bubba as he's getting the absolute best of both worlds - the socialisation, but he's always with me.
Blueberry Crumble
06-02-2010, 07:50
I can honestly say that I DO send my son to a WONDERFUL daycare twice a week purely for the reason so he can SOCIALISE!! (Shock horror!!!!!)
He absolutely loves it to bits! He has made loads of friends, gosh when i drop him off he barely says goodbye, just runs off to play! The outdoor setting is beautiful, set in bushland, so he runs around outside all day, when he comes home he is filthy!
I actually think it is MUCH stranger for a toddler to spend 24/7 tied to their mothers hips. My son has benefited greatly from this independence.
He has learned skills that are invaluable to starting kindy and school. He has really developed for the positive since starting at daycare (he was 2.5 when he started)
Blueberry Crumble
06-02-2010, 07:55
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
What daycare have you seen? This sounds horrible! An very unlike what my son experiences. And as far as not much socialisation with the same age group, every child has a different personality and children benefit from being around others even if they are the same age.
I dont really see the point of this thread TBH. You said that you are not beibng judgemental, but even from what I have quoted from you above, you are being judgemental.
Everyday
06-02-2010, 08:14
My 2yrs and 4 months old goes to Family day care twice a week. I have no friends with children and he loves going there to play with the other 2yr old boy and once a week another 2yr old girl. And all the fun toys lol!
Also im a single mummy and the child care provider is a man who is amazing with DS! DS loves him and its good for him to have a man in his life. His dad doesnt see him much and when he does i dont think he actually plays with him much.
Another reason is so i can have time out and keep my mind! lol, i have him 24hrs a day 7 days a week with NO brakes ever usually! So 2 days off is amazing for my sanity haha. I mean when i was with EX DH i could atleast ask him to watch DS while i went shopping or hung the washing out.....
DS also has a day sleep those 2 days! He hasnt slept at home dureing the day from 1 yr old!! (sept when in the car or sick sometimes) But for some reason he sleeps at day care??? Iv tried to do the same routiene at home but he will have non of it lol.
Sometimes i feel bad about leaving him there but i know its good for both of us. When we settle a bit more and im feeling better health and mind wise i will start looking for 2 days of work then i can start saveing.
I have not read the rest of the posts but am just replying to OP about MY situation.
I am trying to organise work around times that DF is available to spend time with DS but this is not always possible. I have thought about putting him into daycare for the 2 days I am about to start work but I just can't do it. So I am getting someone to come and look after him one on one at home. It is expensive but I have enough trouble leaving him for 30 mins/ an hour at the creche at the gym!
As for socialisation, I do think this is important which is why I take him to play group and swimming and play centres and catch up with friends with other children etc. When he is 3 and capable of making friendships etc, I will probably look at putting him in preschool for a day or 2 but I plan to have other children by then so it wont be so I can have a 'break'. It would be more for his development and so that I can ease him into the idea of school. I dont want him to have separation anxiety when he goes to school.
Why do so many parents feel it is necessary to put their children/toddlers into daycare/ELC/etc. for socialisation reasons, ie. more fun activities, speech development, less reliant on mummy, etc.?
Why not? Some kids especially mine thrive on stimulation, more than I can often provide...
This is not a question directed a mums who need to return to work genuinely for the $$, but those who do it "for a day to themselves", etc. Just curious, not looking down at you, my SIL does the same, love her to bits.
that's a huge judgment call to say..so if not working then it isnt "genuine"?
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
Yes I think it is good! your examples as pointed out arent the norm...
Or is it the whole "parent/mummy guilt" thing, that makes you feel the need for a reason?
As I said no judgement, I just find that the majority of mums who use childcare for "free time, social reasons, etc."seem to need a 5 min sprout on how good it is.
I have no guilt whatsoever...my daughter thrives and loves spending a whole day playing and interacting with other kids...
If someone asks if im sending DS or what school he's going to, etc and I say no, or Im homeschooling, unless they ask why, i just dont see the need for justification.
Is it just me, or is it that awful "mothers guilt" that leads to the reasoning? If it is, that sucks as you should be comfortable with your decision, either way, even if it is for "selfish" reasons.
Just like you dont need to justify homeschooling and what you do with your child I dont feel the need to justify if or why my child goes to daycare..and just for the record I actually think homeschooling is rather "selfish" too but I wouldnt say that to someone doing it... not all opinions need to be expressed....
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 09:33
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
What daycare have you seen? This sounds horrible! An very unlike what my son experiences. And as far as not much socialisation with the same age group, every child has a different personality and children benefit from being around others even if they are the same age.
I dont really see the point of this thread TBH. You said that you are not beibng judgemental, but even from what I have quoted from you above, you are being judgemental.
Well these have been my impressions and experiences form chilcare/daycare/kindy of two of my close friends and my SIL, the sexual stuf RE: PPs...VERY SCARY if you ask me!
MummaBear03
06-02-2010, 09:36
Just like you dont need to justify homeschooling and what you do with your child I dont feel the need to justify if or why my child goes to daycare..and just for the record I actually think homeschooling is rather "selfish" too but I wouldnt say that to someone doing it... not all opinions need to be expressed....
That's an interesting point, Meggs, and worth exploring a little more. Might start a thread about it later on when we get home if I remember.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 09:39
Just like you dont need to justify homeschooling and what you do with your child I dont feel the need to justify if or why my child goes to daycare..and just for the record I actually think homeschooling is rather "selfish" too but I wouldnt say that to someone doing it... not all opinions need to be expressed....
The genuine was referring to "genuinely needing $$"as some mums go back to work purely for the love of it, not coz they need $$. Thats fine too, its their choice.
I am glad that you dont feel guilty or the need to justify. That is great!
And the whole point is different things suit different families, i personally just think its sad if our society puts so much pressure on us that people feel the need to explain every little choice they make...this is in more areas than childcare too...but a lot of parenting related things.
is "socialisation" a legitimate benefit?
My DD started getting curious about 'school' just from hearing the little girl over the road talk about it, tv & a couple of her books so I asked her if she would like to go.
She wanted to give it a try, she didn't cry- I did! & she loves it!! She has been going 2 days a week since she was 3 & a bit.
People comment to me that it must be nice to have a break on those days & I always think, you have to be kidding its the 2 hardest days of the week for me without DD because DS misses her & whinges because he has nobody to play with & I get lonely because during the day she is the only person I see that I can have a conversation with:o
I would much rather she was home with me but she really does enjoy going, if she ever does say she dosn't feel like going that day I say thats cool stay home.
So for us "socialization" is the only reason I send her.
Fuchsia!
06-02-2010, 09:46
I sen my 1st DS to DC when he was 9mths old. He thrived and absolutely loved it.
My second son i sent him last year just before he turned too. He does socialise with other children, and he socialised with the carers.
The school is fantastic and couldn't ask more for a school.
I don't work, and i do it for him and me. Im a single mum and need a day, i have a spot in DC, who cares? Is my child being traumatised? No, is he having fun and learning new things? Absolutely
Do i feel guilty? Absolutely not at all. Everyones situation is different and people use them for a wide variety of reasons. Who cares?
I thought a lot about this thread last night. TBH i was pretty angry and upset. I thought that the op was actually quite rude. It was hard not to take it personally, especially since i had had a different unhelpful person post in my own thread which happened to be about how i was feeling guilty about sending my ds to childcare. I posted my thread not long before the op started this one. (poor timing)
socialisation is one of my thousand reasons for sending my ds to daycare. but i know deep down it will be good for my child. no debate. I am glad that my thread was edited, but i wanted to say my bit here.
I think that it is terrible that somthing like that happened at a daycare. but if i was a child care worker, a grand statement like that would be very hurtful. Something like that can happen in somebodies own home! it is tradgic but it happens. I think it is wrong to judge all day cares as horrible places because of that incident. it seems an extreeme case, and there are always going to be things like that. it was great to hear about some of the beautiful things other peoples kids have been doing at daycare, that i know i could not do at home.
Thats down right rude and judgemental, I choose not to judge others and there reasons for doing things, as I have no idea what is best for there child just as they have no idea what is best for mine.
IF they cant cope at school at school age what makes you thnk they would of coped at a younger age.
whats good for one may not be good for another.
mikenzees mum, in context i dont think chell was rude. i believe she was just responding to the rudness of the op, and feeling like she had to get a point across in a dramatic way. I think the point is, there is no judgement cast to people that keep their kids at home. it is their choice. but why is there judgement passed on people that send their kids to day care. it is their choice? you can feel guilty for sending them, you can feel guilty for not sending them. it is because we all love our children. that is where guilt comes from. love. chells was such a support to me last night, i thank her for her passion.
i was actually quite blown away by some of the support I got in my thread. i was also quite devistated by one judgemental comment. There seems to be a sense of judgement here and it seemed to be from the onset to be an unhelpful discussion. what is it really going to achieve? what is the op going to get out of the discussion? As mums it is hard enough without having a fear of judgement from our peers. I had no idea people were so passionate about doing things ''thier'' way and thinking it was the only way for everybody else. (that is not directed towards the op, it is just in general)
I dont think we can compare socialisation to our own generation of upbringing. Most people in my gen were never in child care. they went to pre school then school. i did i was fine. Dh was also only cared for at home. but his case was different. he still remembers how traumitised he was when he left him mum in kindy. mil tells me that he would cling and cry every morning for the first 3 terms of school. he remembers it being horrible. This is part of our reason for sending ds to daycare. so that he learns that he can do things without mummy being there at an early age, so he is not traumitised later. it is also quite normal for kids in this gen to be in daycare. Yes i do take him to socilise with me. we go to mothers group, swimming and playgroup. he is always out with us and we are a very social and active family. There is a different side of socilisation i can not teach him. the side that it is ok to play with other children without me having to intervene and sit right beside him. to learn that he can have confidence with mummy around and without mummy around. he can start to learn how to problem solve.
i am writing this morning because i did not trust myself to not get really upset, emotional and angry last night. i hope that i have put my point across this morning as i feel i need to.
i realise that you, op, had no direct intention towards me but i just hope that next time you may choose your timing.
i do not wish to offend.
Thus stuff most commonly occurs between siblings/ cousins, should we not allow unsupervised play between any sibs as a result? I have a friend who was sexually abused by her dad. Should no dads be allowed unsupervised? It is terrible that these things happen but you cannot extrapolate them to being the norm.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 10:10
Lovely post flicker. I agree, terrible poor timing, I didnt even read your post let alone a mean comment. *hugs*
I can tell you that I have been getting a lot out of this thread, as to how there are clearly some wonderful daycare/ELC out there! Also it is good to know that not ecerybody feels the need to justify.
Also, in re reading my OP i can see how some of the questions may have been misconstrued, but my intent certainly was not to judge. I am of the view that what I feel is best, is only in relation to me and my family, no one elses. I have reasons for the ways I do things but dont make people endure them everytime, the word "school"or "breastfeed"or whatever comes up. If a proper discussion ensues, i enjoy giving my reasons and listening to others. Its just when someone says, "when are you putting DS in kindy?" and I say "ïm not" and then get a 5 min explanation on "well mine are in because, etc., etc., etc." and its often quite frantic, they way it is said.
I think thats sad, as just because I dont, doesnt mean people shouldnt and it certainly doesnt mean I was questioning their motives, etc.
I also think that SAHM do get judged as being upitty or lazy and holier than thou, etc. but couldnt give a rats. If thats what people think poo to them, same for people who think either sending kids to daycare or homeschooling is "selfish"(opinions both ways). Who cares, as long as you are happy!
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 10:11
and kar, yes...dont get me started on sexual abuse! GRRRR and yes a lot of it happens within families, i mean how disgusting and sad.
:shakehands:
it is great that you are confident in your decisions for your child. I think part of the problem is some mums, including me, seek validation from others (or support) because they lack self confidence. They want to talk about childcare/home care bottle/breast , to see what others do and think.
I think espcially on a forum like this, some things can help that confidence or smash it.
glad you got a lot out of your post and that you were genuine in your reason and approach
And also, is "socialisation" a legitimate benefit?
i honestly believe for some children it is.
some children need extra help with socialisation just like some children need extra help with reading or maths or whatever.
some children excel and stand out at socialisation and therefor should be provided the opportunity to shine where possible. just as some children will excel at tennis or ballet or whatever.
i think of being social as a skill. the vast majority are probably neither behind nor advanced but for those who are then yes i think it is a valid reason.
and i agree i dont think parenst should have to justify their choices for childcare.
i think the best judge of what is best for any child is always that childs parents.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 10:21
flicker - *hugs* and lots of support here for your choice! Im sure your LO will be just fine, from this thread clearly it sounds like if anyone sheds a tear its usually mum...but hey, then you can go have a nice coffee, without it being spilled on you (*rolls eyes* with the memory of experience LOL)
MummaBear03
06-02-2010, 10:33
Well these have been my impressions and experiences form chilcare/daycare/kindy of two of my close friends and my SIL, the sexual stuf RE:pps...VERY SCARY if you ask me!
My friend's still going through that with her girls from family daycare :(
Her second DD was damaged so bad emotionally that she never wants to be around any male other than Daddy and she's never getting married. Men are bad, bad people according to this 8 year old :crying:
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 10:37
Oh mummabear - that is heartbreaking, poor darling! *hugs*
singlemumma82
06-02-2010, 10:40
I sent my DD to childcare ffrom 18 months purely for socialisation and I do not feel guilty about it AT ALL.
I was the first of my friends to have a child, she was the first grandkid on both sides so had no cousins, plus me and her dad had split so possibility of siblings was very unlikely.
I made sure I had experienced all her 'firsts' before sending her as I knew I would be heart broken to miss these. And at the start she went one day a week, on a Friday when I went around paying bills, rent, doing food shopping and cleaning the house, even if I kept her home, she would not of recieved 'quality' time off me.
She thrived at the centre, she made two lovely little friends that she stayed in care with until she started school, one is still her best mate and they are the closest little mates, and I also made some great friends which helped me have other 'mummy' friends.
I had also studied childcare and found the best centre in my area through personal opinion and feedback from other childcare workers, she was sent to a privately owned centre which always had an extra staff member per room to provide more stimulation for the children and had passed the past 5 years accreditation.
To the OP, if I had ever witnessed that within a centre I would immediately contact authorities, no child should be subjected to that.
And as others have said, I too find homeschooling selfish, I have known children that are homeschooled and personally, majority of these children had no social skills what so ever. I cried the day I discovered my DD had made friends of her own and started getting invited to parties etc, to me, this is a very special part of growing up, becoming independant and not reliant of friendships she has no choice over (ie: cousins or family friends).
TripleTime
06-02-2010, 10:44
Because I need a break! I can only take so much before I loose the plot.
I've spent the last fortnight looking at centres, yesterday was th first time I've taken on of the kids with me & realise how small they really are. There is no way they could hold their own in the battle for a toy. There were kid there the same age as mine but were 5 plus kg's bigger.
There are kids that have social issues & go to care for these reasons.
thanks brogeybear. I run my own business from home. although i wont be working on that day it will be good to get some rest from the nights that i do work when ds is in bed. lol, it would be good not to juggle for a second
mummabear that is horrible. i can see why your opinion of child care is tainted. i dont think you can protect a child from that, even if they are kept at home. it is so often an uncle, a grandfather a father. it is such another issue. i dont think child care is like that as a whole.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 10:48
Children have a choice who they befriend, it is simply a matter of how broad their choice is. If a child goes to school/DC their choice is mainly those in their class.
If a child is homeschooled, their choice becomes varied between children in dance lessons (different ages, not same aged after school lessons), homeschool groups (also children of varying ages), our piano teacher, swimming class, science program, library staff, etc.etc. not to mention the large group of family friends we are fortunate enough to have (from this forum I have learnt that there are a lot of lonely mums out there with not many friends or friends for their children), then of course the relatives, etc.
I still think either way, it is the childs choice whom they make friends with, but its about who they are given the oportunity to befriend. I know myself i have friends of so many varying ages, i think life would be boring if my friends were all the same age. I have also never worked along side more than one person of a similar age to me, so pretty much school is the only time in life you will be surrounded by such a limited variety of choices for friends.
Doesnt mean you wont make friends or form long lasting friendships, just that the oportunity for variance is limited.
You know I used to get it the other way. "when are you putting you sone in DC?". I would say I'm not, I don't even want to send him to prep because I feel it's too much time to be away from mum and dad at such a young age. I still do, DS at this point will only go 2-3 days per week in the first half of the year - unless he asks to go more.
Anyway the comments I got were crazy. " Oh your poor son, he'll be so behind" or "oh dear he'll have no friends when he starts, kind of selfish really" or from one ex friend I was absolutely drilled and questioned for my reasons, she barely spoke to me for a week because she was so disgusted that god forbid I wouldn't put him in care. I actually felt more guilt for not planning on sending him. But he was only 12 months so there was no way I even thought about it.
When he was 20 months old someone asked where I sent him. I said I didn't, then came the "but how will he learn, he'll be so behind". I told them he could count to 11, knows all his colours, draws circles, triangles, recignise letters and numbers, talks in ten word sentences, is fully TT and can even negotiate. She said that was pretty good for three but he'd probably still fall behind! I laughed and said he's not even two. She was quickly quiet. She was someone at work who'd seen DS once briefly and thought because he was talking well and tall he was older.
So yeah I had an opposite experience, now that he goes 5 hours a week I'm getting told he should be there two full days per week and why am I stopping a child who obviously thrives there. The thing is he thrives at home too and is happy one day a week, that's enough.
Yeah I was more defensive about not sending him lol!
MummaBear03
06-02-2010, 10:59
thanks brogeybear. I run my own business from home. although i wont be working on that day it will be good to get some rest from the nights that i do work when ds is in bed. lol, it would be good not to juggle for a second
mummabear that is horrible. i can see why your opinion of child care is tainted. i dont think you can protect a child from that, even if they are kept at home. it is so often an uncle, a grandfather a father. it is such another issue. i dont think child care is like that as a whole.
Oh I realise that. I've worked in childcare for 11 years and used it for my own child from the time she was 1.5 until school age.
TurnedBatty
06-02-2010, 11:05
I think someone on the first page said something about how socialisation is a ludicrous reason for using daycare. (I may be misquoting, too lazy to go back and look. oops) I really wish that person was around when I put BS in daycare. I had him in one day a week from the age of 2. He was the first child of the generation in my family. Still was until three weeks ago. He had a cousin who he never sees on his dads side. I went to a young parents playgroup regularly on a frida yevery week. Other than that, there was no socialising with any other kids. His dad was so angry about me putting him in daycare. Claimed he didnt need it and blah blah.
BS made two close friends at daycare, one of whom he still sees at school. His daycare centre helped us notice some social and other weird issues that BS had/has. Being our only kid we had nothing to compare it too. Before we sent him to school we had the school principal and other representatives come observe him at daycare. They asked that we put him in an extra day a week because of his low social skills. He still has social issues, and he is in year 2. There are suspicscions that he has aspergers, but thats to be debated.
I honestly think that if it wasnt for me putting him in daycare, he would have even more social issues. I think it helps with detachment too. I think my SS would benefit from daycare too, having to be around kids his own age and share etc. I wish.
So to the person who says socialisation is not a real reason for putting a kid in daycare, I say poo to you
delirium
06-02-2010, 11:19
You said you aren't judgemental of those that use cc OP, but reading your posts you sure seem to be. You say that the socialisation reason is just an excuse, that's a pretty big call. I don't know where your old centre is, but ours is nothing like that.
To answer the OP, no I don't think it's an excuse. Some children are only children and need ths stimulation. Some mums need the break.
I mean seriously, even if it is an excuse, who cares? If you don't want to use it don't. But don't make uninformed generalisations about centres and parents motives.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 11:24
it was morrigan who said socialisation is an excuse, not me...i asked if that is a real reason why people do it and from the respose, it seems it is. i wouldnt do it but i dont judge others who do, i just have other options open to me as regards the socialisation of my child, thats all.
and its not my old centre, its a friends current centre...yes she still sends one of her kids there after all that. her call though, no judging remember, and my SILs centre, both of which i have been to, sat in, etc.
TurnedBatty
06-02-2010, 11:29
it was morrigan who said socialisation is an excuse, not me...
Thanks, laziness gets the better of me most of the time. :)
Chunkydunks
06-02-2010, 11:42
Socialisation is a legitimate reason and its a darn good reason for some kids.
What would the majority of you do in this situation?
Mother and disabled father at home with 2 year old DS. Father doesn't have much energy to actually play with DS. Mother tries her best but struggles to keep him occupied and as a result he gets bored and often pull the house apart. Outside time isn't an option most of the time as they live in a block of flats and the old guys next door get frustrated if too much noise is made.
They're in a new area, they have no friends and the only play groups around are full and have waiting list for possible extra days. Closest thing available is a play group 30mins away on public transport.
When they go walking to the shop their DS often asks what the noises coming from a certain building are. Mum tells him its other kids playing and he instantly asks to go play. He never gets to play with other children. Even when she takes him to the park there never seem to be other children there.
Would you keep the child home because you don't think its nessecery to send him to CC or would send him because you know that he needs something more than what Mum can offer.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 11:46
if the person in your example is real *hugs* to her and her fam and I hope they get settled and make some friends shortly!
If I wasn't working 2 days a week, I'm sure I'd put my daughter in for at least one day for EXTRA socialisation and for me to have a break. There's nothing wrong with wanting or needing a break. It often makes you a better mum ;)
My daughter socialises plenty. We go to playgroup, mothers' group, just started kindergym, play dates etc. A little bit more wouldn't hurt, and my sanity would also be saved.
Chunkydunks
06-02-2010, 11:55
It was us 3 years ago. We're now in a better place.
DS did go to CC and loved it. He absolutely thrived there. When we moved we decided to send him to a preschool. We could have kept him at home with us because we did have the option of play groups and him having play time with his cousins but we decided to keep him going because he loved it so much.
Just yesterday he finished his first week of "big" school and he's in a class with his best friend from preschool. What more could I ask for.
:thumbsup:good on you chunkydunks. sometimes one of the hardest things as a mummy is admitting you cant do it alone and need help. But once you get that help it is the best thing for everyone. I have no idea why that seems hard though!
Chunkydunks
06-02-2010, 12:13
I think my biggest problem was letting go. Knew we needed something for him but I wasn't ready to leave him. Once I got past that (he was past it lol) I began to enjoy the time to do my own things, like getting the groceries without him screaming at me that he wanted this and that :laughing:
JiminyCricket
06-02-2010, 12:24
I think Children and babies can still have 'socialization' from family , friends and playgroup with out the trauma and guilt of leaving them at a day care centre.
Childcare is not the only way that kids learn to socialize and learn new skills , there are plenty of oppurtunity's to do fun programs with your children in this country.
Librarys ,community playgroups , gymbaroo, sports, kindermusic etc all encorage kids to socialize and learn new skills and probably costs as much as day care would.
Chunkydunks
06-02-2010, 12:31
I think Children and babies can still have 'socialization' from family , friends and playgroup with out the trauma and guilt of leaving them at a day care centre.
Childcare is not the only way that kids learn to socialize and learn new skills , there are plenty of oppurtunity's to do fun programs with your children in this country.
Librarys ,community playgroups , gymbaroo, sports, kindermusic etc all encorage kids to socialize and learn new skills and probably costs as much as day care would.
And then some. Sure the library is free with certain activities and playgroup is cheap, usually only a few $ a session. But gymbaroo, kindermusic and sport were all VERY expensive and really beyond what we (being on benefits) could afford and I'm sure anyone on a low to middle income would have trouble affording it. CC on the other hand cost us $10 a day and that included all food. When we moved it was even cheaper.
those are all each great forms of socilisation. whether you can afford them or not they are not the only form. you can still do those with your child, but it still does not mean that daycare cant provide those things too. life is all about balance and having the right to choose and not be judged by that choice.
well said lozaaa
Thanks :D
crazymuma
06-02-2010, 12:47
Ok, I realise that this one may get a little heated, so pleas try to be civil and remember that everyone has a choice:
Why do so many parents feel it is necessary to put their children/toddlers into daycare/ELC/etc. for socialisation reasons, ie. more fun activities, speech development, less reliant on mummy, etc.?
This is not a question directed a mums who need to return to work genuinely for the $$, but those who do it "for a day to themselves", etc. Just curious, not looking down at you, my SIL does the same, love her to bits.
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
Or is it the whole "parent/mummy guilt" thing, that makes you feel the need for a reason?
As I said no judgement, I just find that the majority of mums who use childcare for "free time, social reasons, etc."seem to need a 5 min sprout on how good it is.
If someone asks if im sending DS or what school he's going to, etc and I say no, or Im homeschooling, unless they ask why, i just dont see the need for justification.
Is it just me, or is it that awful "mothers guilt" that leads to the reasoning? If it is, that sucks as you should be comfortable with your decision, either way, even if it is for "selfish" reasons.
I haven't read through this thread but will reply to the OP.
My kids are in daycare for socialising - simple fact is we are in a strange town, no family, no friends, no sports yet etc etc.
Before moving here the kids spent every day with other children - they were surrounded by cousins and friends.
After the move they became very bored - they were missing having kids to play with and it was starting to affect them - to the point my son was in tears many days asking when he would get to start school to make friends.
Oh and for the record - my kids don't get teased at daycare
They have never had issues with sexual exploration at school
The daycare actually has more carers per room then they are required to have
And in no way are the children suffering - they absolutly love going to daycare.
And at the end of the day why the hell should I not get a break.
I have no partner to help
No friends or family to help
I can't afford a babysitter to have a break
I am in this parenting thing completly on my own - only a single mum can really understand just how hard it is and if taking a days break a week keeps me sane (therefore making me a better parent) then thats what I will do.
Judge me if you want (because really I don't care what anyone thinks :D)
I was a single mother with one child and he is very active and needs a LOT of stimulation.
I put him in occasional care for one day per week.
So he could play with other children (being an only child), play with some different toys and do some different activities.
It also gave me a much deserved break.
But my care factor of what others think of mums who put their children in daycare for their own reasons is honestly somewhere between zero and minus ten.
I haven't read through this thread but will reply to the OP.
My kids are in daycare for socialising - simple fact is we are in a strange town, no family, no friends, no sports yet etc etc.
Before moving here the kids spent every day with other children - they were surrounded by cousins and friends.
After the move they became very bored - they were missing having kids to play with and it was starting to affect them - to the point my son was in tears many days asking when he would get to start school to make friends.
Oh and for the record - my kids don't get teased at daycare
They have never had issues with sexual exploration at school
The daycare actually has more carers per room then they are required to have
And in no way are the children suffering - they absolutly love going to daycare.
And at the end of the day why the hell should I not get a break.
I have no partner to help
No friends or family to help
I can't afford a babysitter to have a break
I am in this parenting thing completly on my own - only a single mum can really understand just how hard it is and if taking a days break a week keeps me sane (therefore making me a better parent) then thats what I will do.
Judge me if you want (because really I don't care what anyone thinks :D)
:iagree::iagree:
Don't listen to it lovely. This nonsense has been around since when I was in daycare :rolleyes:
:hugs: it's a tough gig and I'm glad you don't care what others say about how you raise your children.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 12:51
crazymumma - no judgement from me. just wondering, if you asked me IRL where I send my DS and i said I dont, would you feel the need to justify in the way that you just posted? or would you be like "fair enough"and Id be like "fair enough" and it'd be all good?
I think it sounds like it is working for you so why not, but do you feel the need to justify it all the time? Sounds like you dont by last setence, but thought id ask LOL
Opinionated
06-02-2010, 12:58
Childcare is to look after children when you need a break, have to work/study or otherwise.
Childcare for "socialisation" annoys me due to how hard it is for people who need care for work/study/respite have to look and wait to get it. Fair enough if you choose to use some occasional care, but using long daycare for this reason makes me grrrrrrr. There is huge waiting lists in some areas and lack of care really disadvantages some families.
If you are only doing it for socialisation, consider joining playgroup, kindergym, swimming, activities at your local library or church, mainly music, dancing or any of the hundreds of other socialisation opportunites available.
crazymuma
06-02-2010, 13:01
crazymumma - no judgement from me. just wondering, if you asked me IRL where I send my DS and i said I dont, would you feel the need to justify in the way that you just posted? or would you be like "fair enough"and Id be like "fair enough" and it'd be all good?
I think it sounds like it is working for you so why not, but do you feel the need to justify it all the time? Sounds like you dont by last setence, but thought id ask LOL
Would I judge you for keeping your child at home - not a chance.
While in my case my kids need the other children around them I would never think that someone having their child at home till school age is making their child miss out on anything - I am quite aware we all live completly different lives and adjust our parenting to what suit us. So yeah it would be nothing more that fair enough.
To be honest IRL I have never felt the need to explain my actions - the people I choose to be friends with would never force me to justify myself - they simply respect my choices - even if they don't agree
On this site though I feel that without justification you are just opening yourself up to an attack from some of the darling ladies on here :D
crazymuma
06-02-2010, 13:03
Childcare is to look after children when you need a break, have to work/study or otherwise.
Childcare for "socialisation" annoys me due to how hard it is for people who need care for work/study/respite have to look and wait to get it. Fair enough if you choose to use some occasional care, but using long daycare for this reason makes me grrrrrrr. There is huge waiting lists in some areas and lack of care really disadvantages some families.
If you are only doing it for socialisation, consider joining playgroup, kindergym, swimming, activities at your local library or church, mainly music, dancing or any of the hundreds of other socialisation opportunites available.
Actually you will find that working parents/studying parents and parents looking for work actually have first priority. If you know the center has non working parents and you, a working parent is on a waiting list then start pressuring them - the spot should be yours.
luvmyboys
06-02-2010, 13:04
I also have not read the entire thread but will comment on the OP. Firstly
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
That is a very narrow minded view of childcare and to be entirely honest could also be applicable at home, if those issues were occurring at a centre I would expect the centre to be addressing them or moving on.
As a mum and someone who has worked with children and families I personally think it is dependant on the situation and the individual child. Some children respond well and benefit from cc and some do not, some parents need that time, and others do not. I do feel sad when children are in cc fulltime and are not happy but I also see that a number of parents have little choice.
I have a postgraduate degree in Early Childhood and know there are numerous benefits for children in a quality program that they may not be getting at home, socialisation may be one of those benefits. Early brain development during that time is immense and if you are attending a high quality service they have years of training and expertise to assist your child's development. It is a very individual choice very much dependant on the child, their circumstances and the service being offered, those parents you feel need to 'justify' their choices may just be more educated on their choices.
Actually you will find that working parents/studying parents and parents looking for work actually have first priority. If you know the center has non working parents and you, a working parent is on a waiting list then start pressuring them - the spot should be yours.
I was just about to write the same thing :yes:
Opinionated
06-02-2010, 13:08
I was just about to write the same thing :yes:
Thanks. Yes, I lost out last year after they hadn't listened properly in my interview, nor read my file. Still, once a child is in the centre, can they be "bumped out" in preference of a child whose parents need to work/study?
Thanks. Yes, I lost out last year after they hadn't listened properly in my interview, nor read my file. Still, once a child is in the centre, can they be "bumped out" in preference of a child whose parents need to work/study?
I really don't know as I only use mine for work 2 days a week so my post is safe.
I just remember reading the priority place list in the information book they gave.
crazymuma
06-02-2010, 13:10
Thanks. Yes, I lost out last year after they hadn't listened properly in my interview, nor read my file. Still, once a child is in the centre, can they be "bumped out" in preference of a child whose parents need to work/study?
Ummm Yes.
My sisters daughter has just gone from 3 days a week down to 1 as there is a parent who works needing care - the fact that my sister starts back at work in 2 months doesn't matter - she isn't working now and the other mother is.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 13:12
Luvmyboys - you really should read the whole thread LOL. My point is that people dont need to justify themselves and frankly is frazzles me when people do this to me all the time IRL. In all honesty, if I cared for an explanation, I'd ask. If I have time for a conversation Im happy to, just dont jump down my throat with your justification because we do things differently, Im not going crazy and justifying my choices in some fanatical way.
Thats my point. And some have stated they do this because yes, they are feeling guilty and are really trying to justify it to themselves, others like craxymumma (yay) are happy with their choice and live and let live.
MummaBear03
06-02-2010, 13:13
Actually you will find that working parents/studying parents and parents looking for work actually have first priority. If you know the center has non working parents and you, a working parent is on a waiting list then start pressuring them - the spot should be yours.
Actually, it's up to the centre. Once a child is already in care it's up to the centre whether they cancel the position for that family or not. It's only the actual waiting list that works that way. If a family wanting to use daycare for socialisation is on the waiting list and at the top then a family looking at putting kids in so they can work wants their kids to go there, that person goes on the list first, and the ones wanting it for socialisation goes further down the list.
i highly doubt you would find anyone putting their child into day care for the sole reason of socilisation. there would be a lot more to it than that. In the centre i put ds in, there was a form everyone has to sign about priority. there are so many centres in our area and a new one going in up the road, they had no waiting list at all.
TurnedBatty
06-02-2010, 13:38
i highly doubt you would find anyone putting their child into day care for the sole reason of socilisation. there would be a lot more to it than that. In the centre i put ds in, there was a form everyone has to sign about priority. there are so many centres in our area and a new one going in up the road, they had no waiting list at all.
Actually thats exactly why I put my son in. didnt work, on that day anyway. I was studying at night. BS was put in daycare for no other reason.
sorry cazza- i am too. same thing, i work at night from home. i should not generalize. but what i meant to say was , there are many more benifits than just the social bit. you take into many more things when you consider day care.
if you read my earlier post, it gives more info on my opinion
TurnedBatty
06-02-2010, 13:45
Its all good.:) When you put it like that, my son had so many other benefits from daycare. His love music was utilised, he used to sing to the other kids all the time. They had a reptile man come in with animals, a petting zoo day, and BS'S all time favourite, the music man! All of this was at no extra cost to parents. I can only imagine what it would have cost to take him to a reptile park.
halloweenmum
06-02-2010, 13:52
I will be upfront, I havent read all hte other posts, just the last page...
I have put my DD in daycare 1 day per week purely for socialisation. There is no other reason behind it at all. She is an only child, I am not working, and we live in a new state where I have no friends or family at all. I mean I seriously dont have a single friend to visit!. So I see it as absolutely essential that she has this exposure to other kids but to other adults too. I hate dropping her off there I worry and miss her like mad but she is so much better for it.
I thought a lot about this thread last night. TBH i was pretty angry and upset. I thought that the op was actually quite rude. It was hard not to take it personally, especially since i had had a different unhelpful person post in my own thread which happened to be about how i was feeling guilty about sending my ds to childcare. I posted my thread not long before the op started this one. (poor timing)
socialisation is one of my thousand reasons for sending my ds to daycare. but i know deep down it will be good for my child. no debate. I am glad that my thread was edited, but i wanted to say my bit here.
I think that it is terrible that somthing like that happened at a daycare. but if i was a child care worker, a grand statement like that would be very hurtful. Something like that can happen in somebodies own home! it is tradgic but it happens. I think it is wrong to judge all day cares as horrible places because of that incident. it seems an extreeme case, and there are always going to be things like that. it was great to hear about some of the beautiful things other peoples kids have been doing at daycare, that i know i could not do at home.
mikenzees mum, in context i dont think chell was rude. i believe she was just responding to the rudness of the op, and feeling like she had to get a point across in a dramatic way. I think the point is, there is no judgement cast to people that keep their kids at home. it is their choice. but why is there judgement passed on people that send their kids to day care. it is their choice? you can feel guilty for sending them, you can feel guilty for not sending them. it is because we all love our children. that is where guilt comes from. love. chells was such a support to me last night, i thank her for her passion.
i was actually quite blown away by some of the support I got in my thread. i was also quite devistated by one judgemental comment. There seems to be a sense of judgement here and it seemed to be from the onset to be an unhelpful discussion. what is it really going to achieve? what is the op going to get out of the discussion? As mums it is hard enough without having a fear of judgement from our peers. I had no idea people were so passionate about doing things ''thier'' way and thinking it was the only way for everybody else. (that is not directed towards the op, it is just in general)
I dont think we can compare socialisation to our own generation of upbringing. Most people in my gen were never in child care. they went to pre school then school. i did i was fine. Dh was also only cared for at home. but his case was different. he still remembers how traumitised he was when he left him mum in kindy. mil tells me that he would cling and cry every morning for the first 3 terms of school. he remembers it being horrible. This is part of our reason for sending ds to daycare. so that he learns that he can do things without mummy being there at an early age, so he is not traumitised later. it is also quite normal for kids in this gen to be in daycare. Yes i do take him to socilise with me. we go to mothers group, swimming and playgroup. he is always out with us and we are a very social and active family. There is a different side of socilisation i can not teach him. the side that it is ok to play with other children without me having to intervene and sit right beside him. to learn that he can have confidence with mummy around and without mummy around. he can start to learn how to problem solve.
i am writing this morning because i did not trust myself to not get really upset, emotional and angry last night. i hope that i have put my point across this morning as i feel i need to.
i realise that you, op, had no direct intention towards me but i just hope that next time you may choose your timing.
i do not wish to offend.
i dont want to be taken out of context. I am with you. i feel that it is a valid reason. i just wanted to point out that it is not a decision any parent makes lightly. oh off we go, she is not social enough. that there is thought that goes in out of love for what is right for that child.
sandy_1902
06-02-2010, 13:57
i dont care if people judge me for putting my Ds into kindy, he loves it i love ,my days when he goes, it makes life alot easier
i put him in there because i knew he need some more friends and i need the me time before dd came and some sleep time now lol.
i honestly dont care if people were to turn there noses up at me for it.
DanceInTheRain
06-02-2010, 14:34
I haven't read all posts but I would definitely consider putting my child in daycare once or twice a week for socialization reasons.
My nephew has spent the majority of his 2 year life at home with mummy. I have seen the way this has impacted him, he has severe developmental delays and no social skills. He won't go to anyone else, is barely talking and has massive temper problems. I honestly feel if he had more socialization with other children and adults since birth these issues would not be as prominent.
Why does anybody need to "justify" putting their child in daycare at all :confused: last time I checked it's not actually a crime!
Heck I could put my son in daycare because he likes the fruit there, I hate cleaning up after him.. whatever.. who cares??
I certainly don't go around asking SAHMs to justify why their child is NOT in daycare.
JiminyCricket
06-02-2010, 16:35
I haven't read all posts but I would definitely consider putting my child in daycare once or twice a week for socialization reasons.
My nephew has spent the majority of his 2 year life at home with mummy. I have seen the way this has impacted him, he has severe developmental delays and no social skills. He won't go to anyone else, is barely talking and has massive temper problems. I honestly feel if he had more socialization with other children and adults since birth these issues would not be as prominent.
Well my 18 month old has spend the majority of his time with me and is happy ,healthy, sociable , says tons of words, is very smart, knows most animal noises , can point to his body parts et etc .
Each kid is different as is every parent, If you feel your kid can cope with it then thats fine but why do some people have to go on and on trying to justify the reasons behind it ?
Is it to make themselves feel better about the situation , they want people to say ''yes do it, its fine your child will be fine etc etc'', when someone says otherwise they crack the ****s because THEY feel guilty and feel bad about it, not because someone is judging them or has a diferent viewpoint.
UmmInayah
06-02-2010, 16:40
I haven't read all posts but I would definitely consider putting my child in daycare once or twice a week for socialization reasons.
My nephew has spent the majority of his 2 year life at home with mummy. I have seen the way this has impacted him, he has severe developmental delays and no social skills. He won't go to anyone else, is barely talking and has massive temper problems. I honestly feel if he had more socialization with other children and adults since birth these issues would not be as prominent.
children don't really engage in social play until they are like 2. so he may be slower in this regard, but all children are different.
to suggest it is because he stayed at home with him mum is bollocks. many many children do not go to daycare and they are perfectly normal, happy, social children.
i don't believe that daycare is essential for social development at all. nor do i believe it "helps". i think it helps for children to view other adults interacting as well as playing with other children themselves. this sort of environment is one you may find at the library or in a playgroup. there is no need for children to be on their own with 1 carer to 15 children for them to learn how to "socialise" and i certainly don't think it is important for them to be AWAY from the person they love the most.. especially if they are forced to. how horrible.
JiminyCricket
06-02-2010, 16:49
children don't really engage in social play until they are like 2. so he may be slower in this regard, but all children are different.
to suggest it is because he stayed at home with him mum is bollocks. many many children do not go to daycare and they are perfectly normal, happy, social children.
i don't believe that daycare is essential for social development at all. nor do i believe it "helps". i think it helps for children to view other adults interacting as well as playing with other children themselves. this sort of environment is one you may find at the library or in a playgroup. there is no need for children to be on their own with 1 carer to 15 children for them to learn how to "socialise" and i certainly don't think it is important for them to be AWAY from the person they love the most.. especially if they are forced to. how horrible.
:iagree: Totally!
MummaBear03
06-02-2010, 16:56
Well my 18 month old has spend the majority of his time with me and is happy ,healthy, sociable , says tons of words, is very smart, knows most animal noises , can point to his body parts et etc .
Each kid is different as is every parent, If you feel your kid can cope with it then thats fine but why do some people have to go on and on trying to justify the reasons behind it ?
Is it to make themselves feel better about the situation , they want people to say ''yes do it, its fine your child will be fine etc etc'', when someone says otherwise they crack the ****s because THEY feel guilty and feel bad about it, not because someone is judging them or has a diferent viewpoint.
That's right. DD started daycare when I started work. She was 19 months old. Talking in sentences, engaging with others in conversations, fully toilet trained (but unable to get her pants back on lol) and extremely happy and healthy. She only went 1 day a week because my cousin had her but she had something else on one of the days so DD went to daycare. The majority of children in her class did not set foot in a childcare centre or anywhere else prior to starting school. Out of those with working mothers, the ones who didn't have it so one parent was home at all times hired a nanny so the kids were looked after in their own house anyway.
Sure, on the first day of school a couple of children who were never away from home had tears more than those who came from childcare, but by the end of Week 1 you would not have known the kids who were in full-time childcare from birth compared to those who had never been out of their mother's sight for the first 5.5 years of life.
Whatever the reasons for childcare, I don't think it's ever ok to bag any other parent out for using or not using care.
TurnedBatty
06-02-2010, 17:00
children don't really engage in social play until they are like 2. so he may be slower in this regard, but all children are different.
to suggest it is because he stayed at home with him mum is bollocks. many many children do not go to daycare and they are perfectly normal, happy, social children.
i don't believe that daycare is essential for social development at all. nor do i believe it "helps". i think it helps for children to view other adults interacting as well as playing with other children themselves. this sort of environment is one you may find at the library or in a playgroup. there is no need for children to be on their own with 1 carer to 15 children for them to learn how to "socialise" and i certainly don't think it is important for them to be AWAY from the person they love the most.. especially if they are forced to. how horrible.
I cant imagine putting my child in a ratio of one carer to 15 kids. Dont know where you got your numbers from, but thats just completely wrong. At BS'S daycare it was 3 adults and 10 kids in the room, sometimes 11. Never one carer with 15 children. :confused:
It also makes me wonder why people think we dont have to justify our reasons for putting our kids in childcare, when its comments like above that are only aimed to make mothers feel stupid and guilty for doing what they think is right. Im not shooting anybody down for not putting their child in care, so why is it made out that its the worst thing I have ever done?
children don't really engage in social play until they are like 2. so he may be slower in this regard, but all children are different.
to suggest it is because he stayed at home with him mum is bollocks. many many children do not go to daycare and they are perfectly normal, happy, social children.
i don't believe that daycare is essential for social development at all. nor do i believe it "helps". i think it helps for children to view other adults interacting as well as playing with other children themselves. this sort of environment is one you may find at the library or in a playgroup. there is no need for children to be on their own with 1 carer to 15 children for them to learn how to "socialise" and i certainly don't think it is important for them to be AWAY from the person they love the most.. especially if they are forced to. how horrible.
which is why we waited to put the kids into DC when they were 3. day care rocks. Noah has the same carers that Owen had when he was there. its a small center with two rooms (kids under 3 and kids over 3).
we always get comments about how well adjusted and wonderful our boys are (I agree of course :D) and they were at home with DH and I for 3 years....soooo each kid is different. but yeah, day care has its place.
singlemumma82
06-02-2010, 17:21
I cant imagine putting my child in a ratio of one carer to 15 kids. Dont know where you got your numbers from, but thats just completely wrong. At BS'S daycare it was 3 adults and 10 kids in the room, sometimes 11. Never one carer with 15 children. :confused:
This is the ratio standards set out for centre's, I know in Victoria this is the case, however most good centre's will have higher ratios. And this ratio is only for children over 3 years old, below I think it is 1:5.
As for children not engaging in social play until 2, I too heard this rubbish while I was studying childcare and it wasnt until I saw my DD's face light up every Friday I took her to see her friends and watched them play together (kitchen, blocks, teddies, interacting together) each afternoon when I picked her up. Even the carers mentioned it is very rare in younger children, but some children will engage in social play, not simply along side another child.
TurnedBatty
06-02-2010, 17:23
This is the ratio standards set out for centre's, I know in Victoria this is the case, however most good centre's will have higher ratios. And this ratio is only for children over 3 years old, below I think it is 1:5.
.
REALLY??!?!?! Just as well I dont live in victoria! I was going off NSW stats though.
Anyone watch a recent episode of Dr Phil? they had SAHM & working mums on it was interesting.
I am a step mum to 3 lovely kiddlie winks. all of whom were put in care from 6 weeks old (I was mortified when I found this out.) I always wanted to be a SAHM.
I agree that having a kid in full time care from 6 weeks is not good.
but I have also learnt that there are benefits to care as well. Socialization is extremely beneficial to toddlers and spending time in daycare where they can learn off and compete with there peers is a positive thing.
My step kids adjusted far more easily to school and are very socially capable, but they are lacking in other parts from being in care full time so young.
ITS ALL ABOUT BALANCE :D
P.S. if kids are sexually exploring each other I would not have them in that center. but a little competition isn't all that bad I dont think, it encourages kids to push boundaries and develop skills
mum2bubba
06-02-2010, 19:18
I have Skye and Nathan is occasional care every Thursday morning for 3 hours so I can have a break. Hayley is in kinder at the same time) They also get to play too and get a break from me. I don't care what other people think. I am paying for it and I think its good for them especially Skye (Nathan doesn't really *need* to go but they have limited spaces so had to get him in now otherwise it's ages til he gets in).
I don't care why other people put their kids in daycare or whatever, it's non of my business.
xxchloexx
06-02-2010, 19:41
Thanks goodness for daycare!
I put DS in daycare once or twice a week when i was a single mum, for him to see other kids and for me to have a break! then he had to go 5 days a week cause i started working.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 19:45
Why does anybody need to "justify" putting their child in daycare at all :confused: last time I checked it's not actually a crime!
Heck I could put my son in daycare because he likes the fruit there, I hate cleaning up after him.. whatever.. who cares??
I certainly don't go around asking SAHMs to justify why their child is NOT in daycare.
I agree, once again this is my point...why the constant justification.
On another note my DS is not yet 2, has countless numbers of words, phrases and sentences, socialises well with both other adult and children, etc., etc.
A friend of ours who is a child care group leader is amazed at his development, as he is far above the children his age in her care. Of course I am proud of him, but not here to boast, just to say that him not going to daycare clearly does not appear to be disadvantaging him in any way, and its a bit amusing when some people get on their high horse about being picked on for sending their child to daycare and then turn around and pick on mums who dont send their children and imply that they are disadvantaged in some way.
Some children are disadvantaged by going to daycare, some are disadvantaged by being stuck at home and only having contact with Mum. Others thrive in each respect.
I agree, once again this is my point...why the constant justification.
On another note my DS is not yet 2, has countless numbers of words, phrases and sentences, socialises well with both other adult and children, etc., etc.
A friend of ours who is a child care group leader is amazed at his development, as he is far above the children his age in her care. Of course I am proud of him, but not here to boast, just to say that him not going to daycare clearly does not appear to be disadvantaging him in any way, and its a bit amusing when some people get on their high horse about being picked on for sending their child to daycare and then turn around and pick on mums who dont send their children and imply that they are disadvantaged in some way.
Some children are disadvantaged by going to daycare, some are disadvantaged by being stuck at home and only having contact with Mum. Others thrive in each respect.
Because we are constantly told that our 'reasons' are 'not good enough' :rolleyes: that we are being selfish, we are fobbing them off, we are having someone else raise our children.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 20:15
Everyone is different but the only time these comments/opinions of others would bother me, would be if I were not comfortable with my choice. If i am comfortable then the proverbial "they" can go jump!
I see many posts from SAHMs "justifying" why they stay at home with their children.
I have absolutely no doubt that they have absolutely NO regrets about staying at home with their beautiful babies.
If somebody attacks my choice, of course I am going to defend it :confused:
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 20:30
definitely if someone is attacking it, i can understand feeling the need to defend, but my experience has been a sort of neurotic justification, when really all i ever said/say is thats nice, sounds fun, etc. but its when asked and i say DS doesnt go, its like they assume im judging which im not, and it gets irritating hearing all the reasons when we arent even really discussing it IYKWIM
Wow! Until I read this post I would not have considered my choice to put my DS in childcare 2 afternoons a week, which I am now investigating even though I am a SAHM., as something I have to justify! I happily tell people I am doing it for his socialisation, and it has never occured to me to think that anyone would think the worse of me for doing so.
My boy is really well adjusted, learns quickly and loves doing so, isn't badly behaved (in fact has better manners than his 6 year old cousin), eats and sleeps well, causes me no trouble, goes easily to my DH when he comes home/on weekends and attends three organised activities a week (with me) as well as catchups with friends with kids. My only "complaint" is that he is very dependent on me when we are alone.
However, I believe he needs to interact with other kids his own age (and of other ages) without me, and learn to be independent of me - make his OWN choice of friends, choose what activities he enjoys (rather than cooking because the only way I can make dinner is to involve him! LOL), meet a diverse group of people, learn about the dynamics of relationships, sharing, the list goes on and on. And hell yeah, I am looking forward to some "me" time (which will probably involve finishing the ironing when he is at CC so that DH and I can spend QUALITY time together in the evening).
I am planning to send him to private, self-funded CC, so assume that will not offend those who are working/studying and waiting for a place?
At the end of the day, I do have a full-time job - to ensure that my children are the most well adjusted, happy and responsible people that they can be, and it is my philosophy that independent interaction with other kids is an important part of achieving this. So do I feel guilty? NUP! Just as I would hope anyone making the decision to put their kids in CC due to work or study, or not to put their kids in CC would not feel guilty.
:yes: IKWYM it's just that coming from the 'other side' we're so used to "oh you put your son in daycare" :eek: that we feel we need to justify it.
It's absolutely no different to when I breastfed my toddler. ZERO guilt - I used to love it!! But if anyone asked me, I was merely pre-empting their "OH you breastfeed a TODDLER" :eek: so I felt I had to justify it before the accusations.
I find that homebirthers do the same, and I know they are 100% happy with their choice.
My son loves daycare. I need it to go to work so we can eat. Zero guilt. And I would have had zero guilt at this point in time if I was a SAHM to put him in child care for socialisation.
ManekiNeko
06-02-2010, 20:40
Ok, I realise that this one may get a little heated, so pleas try to be civil and remember that everyone has a choice:
Why do so many parents feel it is necessary to put their children/toddlers into daycare/ELC/etc. for socialisation reasons, ie. more fun activities, speech development, less reliant on mummy, etc.?
This is not a question directed a mums who need to return to work genuinely for the $$, but those who do it "for a day to themselves", etc. Just curious, not looking down at you, my SIL does the same, love her to bits.
Do you genuinely think it is good for them? (IMO being teased, 3y/o hiding in corners sexually exploring each other, socialising with the same age group, not much variety there, having to compete with 10 other children of similar age for the attention and care of 1 person, etc. is not an option for us)
Or is it the whole "parent/mummy guilt" thing, that makes you feel the need for a reason?
As I said no judgement, I just find that the majority of mums who use childcare for "free time, social reasons, etc."seem to need a 5 min sprout on how good it is.
If someone asks if im sending DS or what school he's going to, etc and I say no, or Im homeschooling, unless they ask why, i just dont see the need for justification.
Is it just me, or is it that awful "mothers guilt" that leads to the reasoning? If it is, that sucks as you should be comfortable with your decision, either way, even if it is for "selfish" reasons.
I am slightly confused to the actual question of the op in this thread. The second paragraph is asking for justification then the last is asking why do people justify their choices? I'm not sure so I'll just answer both.
DD is 3 and half and goes to an early child hood developement program at a local special school. She is Autistic so she is able to go there and recieve care that is going to help her adjust to a main stream school life. I am not qualified in that area but as they have occupational, speech and physio therapists on hand as well as teachers who specialise they know what they are doing in regards to getting her adjusted. I also have her in 1 day a week in a regular pre school group at a local daycare. I wasn't entirely happy about letting her go to school 2 days a week then to kindy 1 day but I really thought she needed to have boundries in a setting with non special needs children. I don't like to leave her too long but when I picked her up the other day she refused to come home. She enjoys being there so I guess I need to let go of my wanting her to be with me so much.
As for DS he is 1 this month and I like having him home with me and I do enjoy being a sahm however when his sister is gone he is quite anxious and wants her to be around. I don't really want to start him in daycare yet but as I don't drive and it's not always easy for me to get around to hanging out with other mothers I would consider putting him in for one day at 18 months jsut so he can have that controlled environment and social interaction for other children.
Why do some mums justify? I guess it could be mother's guilt. I worked alot since DD was 5 months old and went back to full time when she was just under 2 as I was pregnant and needed the money to put aside. Towards the end of my pregnancy and time at work (I worked to 36 weeks) I could barely handle being away from her so much and it made me feel guilty and depressed. I just felt like I hardly saw her and I was missing her and missing out on her developement. I guess that's why I've had a hard time letting her go to care but now that she enjoys it so much and wants to go I need to let go of my own feelings because I need to listen to what she is telling me is best for her.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 20:41
Ì think its really annoying how people have that tone...the "oh, your that type" and that condescending way. i hope that the majority arent like that, because TBH i think it is lame but sad at the same time as they must have insecurities to do that *shakes hands with benji*
Ì think its really annoying how people have that tone...the "oh, your that type" and that condescending way. i hope that the majority arent like that, because TBH i think it is lame but sad at the same time as they must have insecurities to do that *shakes hands with benji*
:shakehands:
I think all parents have insecurities. We all want to do what is best for our children and not all of us have all of the answers to what exactly that is [actually, none of us do].
It's a tough gig and doing things differently doesn't make things "wrong".
I just love my son and want the best for him, as most mothers in this world do. I'd walk over hot coals for that boy.
ManekiNeko
06-02-2010, 20:48
Ì think its really annoying how people have that tone...the "oh, your that type" and that condescending way. i hope that the majority arent like that, because TBH i think it is lame but sad at the same time as they must have insecurities to do that *shakes hands with benji*
It happens with everything though I don't think it's really insecuritues. I think some people just think others parenting choices are stupid and they don't know how to respect them. I'm not saying your choice is stupid just rather explaining why people have that "your one of those" tones. I don't parent like the majority of people around me and I get that all the time so I just avoid those people because I know that we just have nothing in common.
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 20:48
Yes ManekiNeko I can see how it is confusing. I guess I wanted to know if people do think that socialisation is a genuine benefit/reason for sending kids to CC - clearly it is, appreciate the feedback, as clearly in my world i didnt realise the amount of mums out there with no one to socialise with or for their kids to socialise with. Apologies for my ignorance.
And at the same time, due to the "fanatical justification"which i have had numerous times with no provocation, except my reply of "no" when asked if DS goes, I wondered why people do this. Is socialisation an excuse they use to cover their guilt, etc. Some agree it is, but I would say the majority do see social benefits.
Thanks for your replies. Its been an interesting discussion.
ManekiNeko
06-02-2010, 20:53
Some kids are different I guess DD is very independant and doesn't want me to do anything for her and as embarassed as I am to say this she likes to be at daycare away from me. DS on the other hand sticks to me like glue and if he wasn't comfortable with daycare I wouldn't put him there but if he wanted to go I would. I guess sometimes we forget children are people and we need to respect their choices too... Not to say that is always possible though some people have to put their chidlren in care for various reasons and I'm ok with that.
delirium
06-02-2010, 22:02
I am slightly confused to the actual question of the op in this thread. The second paragraph is asking for justification then the last is asking why do people justify their choices?
I thought that too. ;)
brogeybear
06-02-2010, 22:03
Yeah sorry bout that delerium, go to the 2nd last page and there is a bit more of an explanation, Id go back and edit the OP but that would just be wierd!
MummaBear03
06-02-2010, 22:06
:yes: IKWYM it's just that coming from the 'other side' we're so used to "oh you put your son in daycare" :eek: that we feel we need to justify it.
It's absolutely no different to when I breastfed my toddler. ZERO guilt - I used to love it!! But if anyone asked me, I was merely pre-empting their "OH you breastfeed a TODDLER" :eek: so I felt I had to justify it before the accusations.
I find that homebirthers do the same, and I know they are 100% happy with their choice.
My son loves daycare. I need it to go to work so we can eat. Zero guilt. And I would have had zero guilt at this point in time if I was a SAHM to put him in child care for socialisation.
I had that too with breastfeeding. When people asked about her breastfeeding beyond 12 months, there was a certain amount of disgust in it. No guilt from me, but it does tend to lead a person to justify the choice.
delirium
06-02-2010, 22:11
I agree that someone can feel the need to justify without feeling guilty. I don't feel guilty for ffing, yet from the constant nastiness ffers get I feel I always have to justify myself. In fact there are several parenting decisions I don't feel a shred of guilt over but feel I have to justify myself over and over.
I was reading this thread with interest & taking in everyones thoughts & comments, until I got to about page 5 and read Chels comment on SAHM's getting on their HIGH HORSE!! Sorry but I am so offended by this comment!! I am a SAHM by choice, my boys are both extremely bright & have bubbly outgoing personalities, and just this week when DS1 started kinder we walked in did the usual hang the bag etc then the gave me, DH & DS2 a kiss and went and sat on the mat & gave us a HUGE smile & big thumbs up & waved bye, not a single tear in sight... does he sound like he was had an issue with only having a SAHM????
Don't think so!
I DO NOT judge other peoples choices about daycare no daycare whatever, I am very much a "if it works for you then great" person & would appreciate it if people like yourself Chel, thought abit more before you posted something that would offend so many people
Sorry for the rant... not normally one to get my back up like that but that comment truely made me see red! :no::mad:
i dont really think people need to justify their decisions on these things but I do beleive child care can be good for development and socialising for some kids. my son was quite clingy and had some speech delays. we had him in the wrong centre and he went backwards from there... but now he is in an amazing centre and is coming along really well. i have to work (and yes, want to, and don't need to justify it) but I do understand people using daycare for a day off to get things done. I personally never needed daycare for that purpose, but some people don't have help from family or friends and might feel a bit overwhelmed..
DanceInTheRain
07-02-2010, 10:59
How did I know I'd come back to this post and my earlier post has been quoted and pulled apart? I knew there was a reason I didn't post in these types of threads :(
teacupbunny
07-02-2010, 11:05
I pass no judgement on mums who put their children in CC for the social aspect or just to get a break. I'm sre one day I too will put my son in CC for the same reason once he's maybe 2-3 to get him ready for kinder too. Every mum deserves a break, and if putting the child in daycare to get that break then more power to them :) As long as the child enjoys their day there and has fun and is well looked after then who cares why a parent chooses to put them in childcare.
ThisIsLiving
07-02-2010, 13:03
I haven't read all of the other posts (13 pages...golly gosh!)
but no, we don't put DS into childcare for socialisation reasons.
If I had to work, then yes I would put him.
But for pure socialisation? No. I can easily do that myself - we have playgroups, swimming classes, catch up with friends and cousins, playing with his big sister when she is home from school.
So no, me personally I don't need childcare for socialisation reasons only.
brogeybear
07-02-2010, 13:42
I haven't read all posts but I would definitely consider putting my child in daycare once or twice a week for socialization reasons.
My nephew has spent the majority of his 2 year life at home with mummy. I have seen the way this has impacted him, he has severe developmental delays and no social skills. He won't go to anyone else, is barely talking and has massive temper problems. I honestly feel if he had more socialization with other children and adults since birth these issues would not be as prominent.
I havent seen this pulled apart and misquoted etc.?
JupiterJay and UmmInaya simply replied to a comment which was quite negative to mums who keep their kids home, saying it is detremental, etc. Meh...didnt offend me, but i do think it deserved a reply, whats wrong with that?
I dont think its wrong to reply to and anaylise anothers comments and give rebuttal. Please dont complain about it and say "I remember why i dont post in these kind of threads", when it has been quite a respectful discussion (at most times), and instead, just dont post if thats how you feel. If you enter into a real life conversation, you expect discussion, all the more son on a "forum of discussion". Sorry just dont get the whinge.
DanceInTheRain
07-02-2010, 15:32
Brogeybear where did I say it was detrimental?? This is what I don't get. I was stating my opinion based on all that I know and that is ONE case. So I might be wrong, his issues may be to do with something else. And I certainly don't look down on mums who keep their child home??? The OP asked a question, I answered it that yes I would consider childcare for socialization reasons, and I gave MY personal reason why. I was not having a go at anyone. Simply stating my answer and trying to explain why.
I didn't add in my first post that my other nephew (same mum) is the complete opposite to the 2 year old. Very social, no developmental problems etc. He went to day care but also had a lot of different interaction with a lot of different people. So I guess that's why I assumed day care had something to do with why the boys are so different? I'm no expert and I never said I was, nor meant to offend mums who keep their kids at home. All I was doing was responding to the OP's question.
My DD just went into CC for 1 day a week 3 weeks ago(she was almost 9 months old) due to me being back at work.
The only person i felt i needed to justify it to was myself. I'd always dreamed of being a SAHM & it killed me when i realised we had to put her into CC but only as it wasn't what i'd invisioned for us. DH was actually all for it as he felt it'd be good for her. TBH, i'm now loving that 1 free day as i'm able to get a lot f things done without having to interrupt her routine.
The 1st day was hard on me, i left the center in tears as i just hate being away from my sweet girl. I got through that 1st day by telling myself of all the benifits DD will gain from being there:build her self confidence, her social skills, her co-ordination, speech etc. I also told myself that i'd be doing this anyway when she got to kindy age so by then she'll be used to this sort of routine.
I still feel guilty about putting her in CC, but that's a fight within myself. I don't give a rats what others think TBH. My DD seems to love going too, not once has she cried for me when i leave & she apparently doesn't get upset while there unless tired.
brogeybear
07-02-2010, 18:39
Alisgirl - no you didnt use the word "detrimental" but stated that him behing home with his mum had "impacted" on him in a negative way.
Like I said, "meh" its your opinion, what I object to is you having a whing about your post "being quoted and pulled apart", its not really even an issue IMO. Thats what happens on a forum: comments are analised and discussed.
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