Working Poor Culture in Australia...

[missie_mack]

In recent years there has been discussed at many levels how there is a growing number of people who are falling below the poverty line despite having paid employment. Their incomes are too high for a lot of government benefits yet at the end of the week they are still struggling and finding themselves being plunged deeper and deeper into debt just to maintain the basics like electricity, water and food.

In recent years the price of petrol, electricity, food, mortgages, rent, credit card interest etc have all seen high spikes leaving many people not being able to meet ends meat and high in debt. In the last two years there has been a dramatic increase in repossession of mortgaged homes however the profits of the companies many of these people work for is increasingly growing bigger every year.

Do employers have a responsibility to increase their staff wages inline with the CPI index and do you believe there is a culture of working poor in Australia?

[jumpaway]

For sure. I work looking after disabled adults. Our wages have not increased in years. This is because the pensions don't go up so my boss doesn't get any more money to look after these people and three costs of living keeps increasing. Its a struggle every day. People ask how and why do I do this job.... well disabled people deserve a dignified life as well. They need more support from Australian government as well. Okay ill get off my soap box now. Have a fun day. High ho off to work I go.

[Fuchsia!]

Could it be possible that people are getting in to deep? Sometimes i think people take on too much, they buy a nice house in a nice area but then can't keep up with the payments.

People are trying to live way over what they earn IMO.

[MummaBear03]

My mum works from 8 til 4, Monday to Friday. She's on a low rate of pay. After taxes come out, she has $750 in the hand each week. As a single adult with no dependents, she's not entitled to any sort of government assistance. She lives in the same house she's lived in since she built it 33 years ago and it's falling apart, needs electrical work but she can't afford it, her lights don't work but it's not a matter of changing the bulbs, she needs an electrician to fix the problem. She has 3 rooms in the house lit by lamps because the actual lights don't work. She also has to buy medication at $47 a hit that lasts a fn. She has no health care card because her gross income is too high for one.

I don't think it's fair to say that people are in too deep. Some people are in too deep. A family at the school bought an $800,000 house last year and had a $50,000 pool put in with fountain, spa, waterfall and slide. They then had one of those huge fort things put in, one of the ones made from timber with the sandpit underneath, swings, slide, and fort area. Not sure if people have seen them, but it's huge anyway.

They then decided they needed a brand new Triton ute and she wanted a new car too and decided on a Suburu Liberty.

Last year when they were first talking about all this, she was asked if she was going to go back to work to pay for it. She made comments about how her job is in the home, and why should she have to work. This year she's whinging and complaining that she has to go to work and how unfair it is on the kids, and because of all this they had to buy uniforms from the second hand shop and the weekly shopping included 5 apples and 5 oranges, so the kids have 2 pieces of fruit a day on weekdays and that's all they can afford.

So I do agree that some people bite off more than they can chew. But there really is a whole section of the community who are living off less than what a single parent with one child would be getting and they are working almost full time hours and don't have any government assistance, nor do they have a concession card so they are also paying full price for rates, registration, medications, etc.

[Pax]

we would fit in that category and we dont have a mortgage. its Rent that is a killer and electricity and food.

[missie_mack]

My mum works from 8 til 4, Monday to Friday. She's on a low rate of pay. After taxes come out, she has $750 in the hand each week. As a single adult with no dependents, she's not entitled to any sort of government assistance. She lives in the same house she's lived in since she built it 33 years ago and it's falling apart, needs electrical work but she can't afford it, her lights don't work but it's not a matter of changing the bulbs, she needs an electrician to fix the problem. She has 3 rooms in the house lit by lamps because the actual lights don't work. She also has to buy medication at $47 a hit that lasts a fn. She has no health care card because her gross income is too high for one.

I would actually think that $750 in the hand is a reasonable pay. Some of DHs friends in unskilled labour work 40 hours a week and barely bring home $600 after tax. My BIL thought he had hit the big time when in a casual job he was earning $20 a hour :(

[1+1=5]

I would actually think that $750 in the hand is a reasonable pay. Some of DHs friends in unskilled labour work 40 hours a week and barely bring home $600 after tax. My BIL thought he had hit the big time when in a casual job he was earning $20 a hour :(

:iagree: thats more than $25o more than what DH brings home for a family of 4 and we survive.

[MummaBear03]

I would actually think that $750 in the hand is a reasonable pay. Some of DHs friends in unskilled labour work 40 hours a week and barely bring home $600 after tax. My BIL thought he had hit the big time when in a casual job he was earning $20 a hour :(

That's per fortnight, not per week. Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking. Fortnightly she's paid and it's $750 in the bank after tax.

[1+1=5]

That's per fortnight, not per week.

thats different...your post said per week. Dh brings home about $900 to $1000 per fn for all of us.

[MummaBear03]

thats different...your post said per week. Dh brings home about $900 to $1000 per fn for all of us.

Yeah I know, I re-read it and meant fortnight, not week. I do apologise for that and said it was a mistake.

[sweetseven]

The system in this country provides a disinsentive to work.

Unimployed, but fully on benefits have the time available to make up for their low income. They also have added advantages of discounts for some things (electricity, rent assistance, PBS, etc).

Low income employed that earn enough to not qualify for benefits are in a much worse situation. They earn a similar amount to those solely relying on benefits but don't have the available time to hunt for bargains or do things for themselves that other working people would hire others for. They are often worse off due to expenses related to working (travel, clothing, convenience food, etc) and also dont qualify for discounts mentioned above.

To get to a higher income position, and be able to earn enough to meaningfully improve your life, you normally need to spend time as a low income earner and work your way up. The imbalance of the difficult life for a low income earner makes the easy position of being on benefits more attractive, and therefore provides a disinsentive for one bettering themselves.

Note: I am not saying that it is easy to live on benefits. I am saying that it is easier to be on benefits and utilising the additional time from not working to save money and get fulfilment in your life. Whereas a low income earner has none of the perks of a high income, but all the penalties (no free time available, and often don't qualify for the perks of someone on income support).

Also, someone in a low income position also doesn't have the free time available to search for a better job.

[Pinkzy]

When my husband was working full time he bought home about $550 per week after tax, so roughly about $1100 per fortnight. I got $280-290 from Centrelink per fortnight while he was bringing that amount home.

We were absolutely struggling (still are now he's not working and we're both on benefits). We rent and pay our rent fortnightly, we are/were always late with bills (phone, electricity) and some weeks we literally can't put petrol in the car.

We know a couple, neither of them work and have 2 children. They receive approximately $700 more than we do per fortnight and they pay less rent. Their bills are also paid by the mothers parents so they don't have to worry about paying those.

[MummaBear03]

When my husband was working full time he bought home about $550 per week after tax, so roughly about $1100 per fortnight. I got $280-290 from Centrelink per fortnight while he was bringing that amount home.

We were absolutely struggling (still are now he's not working and we're both on benefits). We rent and pay our rent fortnightly, we are/were always late with bills (phone, electricity) and some weeks we literally can't put petrol in the car.

We know a couple, neither of them work and have 2 children. They receive approximately $700 more than we do per fortnight and they pay less rent. Their bills are also paid by the mothers parents so they don't have to worry about paying those.

With my wages being $501 after tax each week (just over $1000/fn after tax) I get $270/fn from Centrelink, mostly in FTB but with a small amount of PPS as well. I live extremely well on that amount. I don't have anything paid for by anyone else, I pay it all with wages and Centrelink money. I think it's wrong that someone can earn $750/fn after tax and not be entitled to at least a health care card.

[Pinkzy]

Me too.

My husband wasn't entitled to a health care card while he was working (even though it was minimum wage) but he has one now because he's not working, and thank heavens for that too.

I don't think Centrelink know that the couple I'm talking about have their bills paid for them. Her parents pay for the phone, net, electricity, gas, both mobile bills and daycare fees. If Centrelink knew I don't think they'd be giving them the same amount but I could be wrong about that, maybe they would.

[MummaBear03]

TBH I get a little lazy with the HCC on that much money. I really don't need the discount and often just pay for things like Ventolin over the counter and pay full price because it's just easier to do that than it is to go to a doctor so that it can be purchased on prescription and I can use the HCC for it. The only things I get a noticeable discount on are rates and car registration. Other discounts are minimal for us, but for someone like my mum who is on a regular type of medication that costs a lot of money the discount would make a huge difference. I don't see that I should be given a health care card when earning just over $1000/fn after tax and am still entitled to part PPS and full FTB. DD has a HCC of her own and I get Carer Allowance for her which covers her specialist appointments.

[crazymuma]

I think alot of people in this situation truly suffer - a lot depends on the needs or your family (eg medication etc) and where you live (how much rent you pay)

But I know of a handful of couples within my family that are all earning enough that they don't receive centerlink payments and they class themselves as poor when they are far from it. They just spend too much.
One couple in particular.
THey have $10 000 in credit cards (which gets maxed out at least once a year (2 times last year)
THey bought a new car when the old one was fine.
THey only buy brand name clothes
THey drink daily
They both smoke
They buy crap (toys,clothes,cd's, dvds etc) constantly- and by constantly I mean they can waste hundreds at the shops every fortnight then wonder how they will keep the electricity on.
They refuse to plan meals to save on groceries

Yet they struggle to pay their bills - have needed to be helped by other family members so many times and they constantly whinge that they don't receive money from centerlink

I see heaps of people in this situation and I just feel like slapping them and making them realise if they only cut down a little then they would be fine.

[sweetseven]

I see heaps of people in this situation and I just feel like slapping them and making them realise if they only cut down a little then they would be fine.I really think the way the system is designed is what is causing this problem.

Give everyone, regardless of income, the basic benefit payment, but have zero tax free threshold. The additional tax, plus reduction in administration costs, should be able to cover it.

That way, people can scrape through on benefits if they want, but if they want a little extra they can work without there being that sudden hump where all their efforts are not really improving their situation.

Also, when people move from benefits to work, they see the immediate loss of the benefits, but dont understand this is counteracted by the taxfree threshold.

That would also solve the animosity of those that are resentful of having to pay for the bludgers. Everyone gets the same basic living allowance, and those that work for more get a bit extra (paid income).

[Mrs Dolphin]

I think that there definitely is a working poor in this country - I think the income rates for Parenting Payment Partnered needs to be lifted so that more working families can get extra assistance. Often families that are not putting themselves into huge debt just can't afford the usual bills and food because of the higher cost of things like food, petrol, electricity etc these days. The government assistance like PPP and low income health care cards has not really kept up with the rate of inflation and nor has the wages!

MummaBear03 - I would get your Mum to have another look into a Low Income HCC for herself - a quick check of the C/L website shows that a single person with no dependents can earn up to $452 per week ($904 f/n) gross and be eligible for a HCC - then the limits are higher again once a LI HCC has been issued. That is of course assuming she has no investment or other income! Might be worth looking into!

As for us, we get by on the small amount we have -DH has a disability which means that he has just had to take a lower paying job to help his condition so it is through no fault of our own that we have to have C/L help us out with payments as I receive CP for him. It is great he can work full time but unfortunately he is limited in what jobs he can do and he will never ever be able to do a high paying job - that is just the deal we have been dealt an we try to do the best we can and are very grateful with the help C/L give us.

Of course the families who spend up big on the greatest and latest and then cry poor certainly are not working poor and all they need to do is manage their money better and prioritise - we know a couple of our friends that are like this and we often think - HA! if only you knew what we survived on each fortnight!

[MummaBear03]

MummaBear03 - I would get your Mum to have another look into a Low Income HCC for herself - a quick check of the C/L website shows that a single person with no dependents can earn up to $452 per week ($904 f/n) gross and be eligible for a HCC - then the limits are higher again once a LI HCC has been issued. That is of course assuming she has no investment or other income! Might be worth looking into!

Thanks, and yes she's looked into it. She earns more than that gross, but after tax has $750 to live off. She has no other income, just wages. If only they based it on what people have going into their bank accounts, then she'd have one.

[mumma sienna]

Some of DHs friends in unskilled labour work 40 hours a week and barely bring home $600 after tax. My BIL thought he had hit the big time when in a casual job he was earning $20 a hour :(


i know all about this!!!! my DF has been in and out of work for 5 yrs now, earning roughly $500 per week (when he has a job). i think it is ridiculous how inflation keeps increasing yet wages haven't gone up by nearly the same rate!! no wonder people have bad debt! i know we have debt just from needing to cover the basics some weeks, food, petrol, groceries, electricity, rent.... where does the list end! and by no means do we live a luxurious life!!
we are lucky though, DF just got a new job and will be on good money (about triple what he used to earn) but even with that, we will be using most of it to get through each week, get out of debt and will be lucky to have $100 at the end of the week! but atleast we have the ability to get out of debt now, for along time it seemed we would have it forever!
my point is, unless you have formal qualifications, it is very difficult to survive in a world that keeps increasing prices on everything, but not increasing wages.... i think it's ridiculous!

[Mrs Dolphin]

Thanks, and yes she's looked into it. She earns more than that gross, but after tax has $750 to live off. She has no other income, just wages. If only they based it on what people have going into their bank accounts, then she'd have one.

No worries :) Maybe she is getting taxed too high then because that seems like an awful lot of tax to end up with only $750 with gross being higher than $904 as like the tax calculator says on $904 net income should be around $810! Anyway hope she can get a HCC in the near future to help her out!!

[codswallop]

yes!!!!
we lost the benefit of our HCC this year because last year when DH was of work due to injury i revived PPP and now for this tax year we apparently have earned to much
how much $160 to much

Dh works 70+ hours a week for $900 before tax and we are getting no where fast!
thats a unskilled labour job as a fully qualified chef working 70-80 hours he earned the same
rent goes up, food cost rise but we have been on the same income for 10 years

[motherev2two]

I think it sucks my boss made good money but refused to give us over 21 hours she hired kids who never showed she would call us and abuse us if we could not work or did not answer her phone calls.

I knew her weekly profit but she cried poor every week and despite saying she had to cut hours due to not affording the wages spent $5000 on a holiday than had the hide to abuse another staff member because she changed her availability after getting a second job so she could afford basic bills.

DH makes less than most now after coming back to the north for a job that did not pay what he was told it would. He was on just ove $16 ph which was ALOT less than what he was told he would be getting(it has gone up but is $1.00 less than promised)

It is hard when rent is so high, you cant afford to buy a house because they are over priced, and food well even when you shop around it is still $200 odd a week for nothing extravagant .

I cannot get a job despite my best efforts if I were a guy Id have a job yesterday.

I feel for those who work hard and can never get anywhere, even when they do not drink/smoke/party or go out or on holidays.

[OJandMe]

I know it happens.... but I can't really see how?

I know centrelink doesn't let you earn a lot....

But when my DH was working part time, and i was on PPP... we were still getting about $1400 a fortnight.

That was with 4 children.

I don't know... but $700 was enough for rent, bills, food, childcare, petrol.

Am I just used to living really cheap???? I always though that was kind of ok... it's not 'heaps' but it's enough.

We do a lot of cost saving though, use cloth nappies and stuff, walked instead of drove, DH cycled to work.

[OJandMe]

If you're family is earning under $44, 177 (or something like that).. then you'd still get the maximum family tax benift A ($150 a fortnight for each child under 13).. And then above that amount, it reduces by 20 cents per dollar, until you get the base amount (around $50 per child under 13).. until like $90,000 around there.. and then it stops.

And the income levels slide with the number of children you have...

So you can still earn $850 a week (gross) and get the maximum family tax benefit (which entitles you to maximum childcare benefit too....)

So are people just not applying properly?????

I don't get it.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

OJ and Me, everyones costs are different, rent is different depending on where you live, transport, debts etc all come into it.

You would have to say that even though you were budgeting well you were not living an extravagent life style.

Many people are just getting by, and I think to judge all others on your situation is a bit single minded.

I know when DH was earning a lot less and we had first bought a house we found it a struggle sometimes even though I was far better off then when I was on SPP.

Now I look back and think wow we really were poor.

It can also depend on the ages of your children and the expenses they incure. There are many variables and it isn't black and white.

[MummaBear03]

I know it happens.... but I can't really see how?

I know centrelink doesn't let you earn a lot....

But when my DH was working part time, and i was on PPP... we were still getting about $1400 a fortnight.

That was with 4 children.

I don't know... but $700 was enough for rent, bills, food, childcare, petrol.

Am I just used to living really cheap???? I always though that was kind of ok... it's not 'heaps' but it's enough.

We do a lot of cost saving though, use cloth nappies and stuff, walked instead of drove, DH cycled to work.

I guess as parents we forget about that population of the country who have no dependents. My mum's youngest is now 21 and he still lives there and pays her for the lower part of her house. Because her house is falling to pieces she can't sell it for more than $70,000 which is nowhere near enough and she'd be stuffed because she can't buy another place for that amount, nor can she get a loan at her age for the remainder of what it would cost for another house.

Because she has no dependents, she gets no tax break and no payments designed for those with children aged 16 and under.

So that's how it happens. She works from 8 to 4, 5 days a week, with arthritis that means she has to be on medication in order to even be able to work but her meds cost a fortune without a health care card. Her gross earnings are too high to qualify for a HCC but her net earnings are not enough to live well from. If my brother decides to move house, she'll be in very big trouble because what he pays in rent is a huge help towards what the house itself is costing due to the poor condition it's in.

[brogeybear]

We just bought a house and our repayments are $1750 p/m. I spend about $175 on food a week, we own both our cars but there is rego, maintainance, petrol, insurance, all up $150 p/wk, then there is rates $70 p/w, phone & net (we cant afford home so just mobiles) $30 p/wk, electricity $30 p/wk...so those expenses add up to another $1970, so total for basics, meal planned, no smokes, alcohol, gambling, foxtel, etc. is $3721 monthly here is what bites Dh earns $3100 monthly after tax, we get $300 FTB monthly, so he has to get extra jobs with temp agencies, etc just to make ends meet. We dont have anything that I consider "flash", old tv, old computer, old car, (1 newish) live in a 2 bedroom unit, not big 4 bedroom house, and we live comfortably in our eyes, we have what we need, but at the same time it is definitely a struggle!
CPI keeps heading up , CEOs wages keep heading up, DHs big boss got himself a $70000 bonus this Christmas, My question regards those on incomes of $150K plus as indicated by a recent poll??? What on earth do you do with all that money, I mean Im sure you work hard and earn it, worked hard at uni too probably, but I worked hard befor I had DS in a few things, Social rehab, in the finance industry, also trade qual hairdresser, you'd never earn that much the way I was going and they werent just $15p/h check out jobs. DH works over 45 hours a week and like I said, clearly we dont have anywhere near that amount....
Long story short, its definitely up to employers to increase wages much more in line with the CPI...more so their responsibility than the government IMO, but they should be doing the same with PPP and CP, etc. etc.
End rant.

[bumMum]

Could it be possible that people are getting in to deep? Sometimes i think people take on too much, they buy a nice house in a nice area but then can't keep up with the payments.

People are trying to live way over what they earn IMO.

I agree. some people I know have taken on HUGE mortgages right out of tafe or uni. it's insane. not to mention credit cards, personal loans, car repayments. people need to live within their means.


I am not saying it is not a struggle for working people. it can be. I really really beleive wages need to be lifted for a lot of industries. espescially caring industries. I also think they should re assess child care rebate. some countries are much more generous in that regard. I also beleive everyone needs to be entitled to FREE health care.. all GP's should be bulk billing.. however, those are just my feelings on what the perfect australia would look like..:flowerz:


when you look at the bills for a family and the way costs are going up.. the average family has all this to pay!!! if you break it down weekly it is easier to pay of course, but it can be hard to do sometimes as well...
electricity and gas
land and water rates
mortgage or rent
car rego and insurance
food and household/clothes
daycare or school fees/excursions etc etc

then all the little bumps along the way like
christmas and easter and birthdays
broken down cars
medical bills
house repairs (plumbing, electricity)
school books

but if you are earning $700 a week (which is the net cut off with one child I think..) you can cover most of those costs, but you won't have much to spare.. nope! but the more you earn, the more you feel like you deserve something more than a tank full of fuel and a trolley full of groceries, but it doesn't work like that.. if you have a family, I'm pretty sure, most people feel like all you work for is to stay afloat, unless you are on big bucks. to me, that's ok. It's better to be afloat than drowning!!!

I think a lot of people need help working out how to economise. we saw a financial planner, free through our bank, who helped us a lot.

I thought "working poor" mostly applied to people in low rate of pay jobs e.g. child care workers etc, who even when working full time, are still entitled to some assistance, because the pay is just that bad!:no: so wrong

and also a lot of people who get stuck in casual employment and go completely without when they get sick and stuff.. just thinking back to social work text books right now..

I definitely beleive the cost of living is too high. 20 years ago the average house cost about 2 times an average annual income... now the CHEAPEST houses ($200 000 or so) are about 4 times the average annual income. then petrol, food, and all the rest have gone up too! so silly..

[trishalishous]

One of the main reasons we are moving back to country WA from Melbourne is that living costs are MUCH cheaper over there.
For what we are paying to share a 2x2 flat (250/week) we can get a 3x1 house in my home town.
We only spend about $100/week on food, I cook EVERYTHING at home, although Ill admit to the occasional packet of bikkies lately.
Utilities are around $30/wk total (power, gas water) Phone/internet/mobiles is $25/week max (we are on a good prepaid plan)
We are on LPG, so spend $10/week on fuel, and another $20 for upkeep/rego/insurance.
Our private health is $25/week.
We can live on $500/week, but we certainly wont be saving much money.
Im hoping DH gets work pretty quickly when we go over!

[Jender]

How do we earn over $150K - DH works an 70/80 hour week as a corporate lawyer as is on-call 24 hours a day. I return to work part-time in a couple of weeks.

What do we do with it? We put money into investments to secure our and our children's financial future so we have fully funded retirement and our children's education is paid for.

[brogeybear]

Thanks Jender.....now this is going to derail the thread slighlty, and im not meaning to be judgemental so please dont take offence. Just interested in the way different people think, thats all:
If you are on such a high income, why are you returning to work? (enjoyed it, kids in school now, etc.) And if DH works that much (very dedicated hats off to him!) how much time does he get with the kids.
As I said each to their own and I respect your choices and lifestyle. My thinking leans towards the whole children value your time and presence much more than material things sort of philosopy. *ducks missiles now heading my direction* Seriously, its a genuine question, please no missiles today.

[Jender]

Its a trade-off for sure.

Firstly, Why am I returning to work? I love what I do and am good at it. It is a very flexible arrangement with my company and I work the hours I need to and am remunerated in accordance with that with a bonus at the end if I over-achieve.

After DD was born, I had a year's maternity leave and returned 2 days a week after that. I had a nanny (my aunt - a primary school teacher's aide by profession) for the time I worked which was roughly 9am to 4pm. From the time DD was 6 months old she spent a lot of time with my aunt so by the time I worked their relationship was very solid. They love each other.

I had DS when DD was 2 so I had worked for a year. I went on mat leave again for a year and am just about to finish. During my time on mat leave DD attended a private pre-kindy (5 hours a week) which she loved. She has started at a day care (a fabulous one near the house) for the past month and is very settled, for 2 days a week.

DS will be cared for by my aunt same as DD was. Again, she has spent a lot of of time with DS without me so he is very settled with her.

I am working 3 days this time. DD will spend the third day with my aunt and DS.

Time with the kids for DH is not great but I knew that prior to having children and am at peace with it. My children also spend a lot of time with grandparents and mornings with DH as well as time on weekends. They are marinated in love.

The plan is for DH to be able scale back in 10 years. Our children will be teenagers and still need their father, possibly more than now.

ANd we will be very financially secure.

[brogeybear]

I like the point about having more time when they are older...more time to keep an eye on them LOL. They definitely sound well cared for, and I think they and you are blessed to have such great family support and people that you know and trust caring for them! That is awesome.
BTW, your company sounds great too. When I had DS, and went on mat leave from finance, I was basically pushed aside (not that I really wanted to return anyway) but it wasnt even like there were flexible "family friendly" options for me. Grrr...glad you have that arrangement! Oh and thanks for your feedback too!

[OJandMe]

Many people are just getting by, and I think to judge all others on your situation is a bit single minded.
.

I wasn't 'judging' anyone... I suppose I was just curious as to how it works. I honestly thought that more people were getting more childcare reductions, tax benefits etc etc. because no one seems to be on really high incomes... and the cuttoffs for these things are fairly high.

And was also surprised that over the last few years, we've actually managed to change our lifestyle so much that I actually thought $750 a week was pretty good. lol.

I honestly think that maybe people aren't accessing a lot of the things there is out there. Like child care benefit. Which you should be getting if your wage is lower than $90,000....

But a lot of people say they don't... even at my playgroup, and I know their wages are no wehere near that...

I don't get it... :confused: the figures are all listed on the family assisstance website, so why aren't people getting it???? (not a jab at the people, more at a lack of FAO letting people access stuff, or just people not knowing how) :confused:

I don't judge people. And I'm quite hurt that you'd say I am... :( I thought you knew me better than that :(

[MummaBear03]

I wasn't 'judging' anyone... I suppose I was just curious as to how it works. I honestly thought that more people were getting more childcare reductions, tax benefits etc etc. because no one seems to be on really high incomes... and the cuttoffs for these things are fairly high.

And was also surprised that over the last few years, we've actually managed to change our lifestyle so much that I actually thought $750 a week was pretty good. lol.

I honestly think that maybe people aren't accessing a lot of the things there is out there. Like child care benefit. Which you should be getting if your wage is lower than $90,000....

But a lot of people say they don't... even at my playgroup, and I know their wages are no wehere near that...

I don't get it... :confused: the figures are all listed on the family assisstance website, so why aren't people getting it???? (not a jab at the people, more at a lack of FAO letting people access stuff, or just people not knowing how) :confused:

I don't judge people. And I'm quite hurt that you'd say I am... :( I thought you knew me better than that :(

Like I said, my mum is a single person with no dependents because her youngest is 21 soon. It seemed like all these things came in right when she was no longer entitled to them. Like the CCB, where was that when we were younger? Or the baby bonus, even I missed out on that one! The education tax rebate came out once all of her kids had finished school. The first homebuyers' grant was not in existence when she purchased a home all those years ago.

Now because she is single with no dependents she has no tax breaks or anything. She's left with $750/fn after tax is taken out.

She is not entitled to a HCC so pays full price for her meds and with her arthritis she has lots of meds.

I said this in a previous post, but accidentally said it was $750/week but it's per fortnight.

She still has a house to run and a car to run and 3 kids and a grandchild to try and keep in touch with.

It costs her money to get down here and visit us. It costs her money to ring my daughter and talk on the phone to her. I try and get DD to call her a fair bit, but I'm not exactly rolling in it either, my fortnightly income is only $812 gross at this stage, and I see even less than that after tax.

So my mum is definately one who comes under the working poor label. It's not just families, there are more people in this country than just those with kids under 16 who get govt assistance.

[Amara]

Mummabear I am curious where your mum lives as I would have thought even a run down house would fetch more than that. Most places you cant even buy a block for that.

[OJandMe]

True. There are single people and single couples doing it very tough. I hadn't stopped to think about that.

MB- that really doesn't sound right! Is she certain she's being taxed properly???? What kind of work does she do?

That really sucks.

[amiee]

Do employers have a responsibility to increase their staff wages inline with the CPI index and do you believe there is a culture of working poor in Australia?[/QUOTE]

Going back to your orginally questions I am pretty sure it depends what you are on eg a contract or a workplace agreement etc.

For example

If you are on a contract and are getting paid above minimum wage then no, you are not entitled to a pay rise.

If you are on a workplace agreement and get paid the minimum wage then each year you get a cpi increase. Its normally on the news and I am pretty sure it only a couple of percent, so it work out to be like an extra $15-$20 a week.

I just googled the minimum wage and its $14.31 per hour which works out to be $543.78 per week. Once you take out tax you should be taking home $480. You can get the tax amount by looking up the tax schedule. MummaBear maybe you should get your mum to look into it to see that she is getting paid correctly.

[MummaBear03]

True. There are single people and single couples doing it very tough. I hadn't stopped to think about that.

MB- that really doesn't sound right! Is she certain she's being taxed properly???? What kind of work does she do?

That really sucks.

I can't say where she works but it's kind of a branch of Education Qld. It's funny that we all ended up working in education haha. Yep she's being taxed properly.

I agree with you that families are looked after by the government in the way of various payments, tax reductions, rebates, etc. There are still those who need additional assistance. Since living here I've come to realise that those who drink, smoke, gamble, keep their kids home from school and fail to feed them correctly are not lazy, they are misguided and giving them more money is only assisting them with the cost of cigarettes, alcohol and gambling money, it's not going to the right things. That's because they know that if they ring up certain people and places the power bill will be paid, the kids will be fed, and someone will buy uniforms, books, and get the kids to school. I think it's a failure of a system rather than slack parenting.

I know that many of you are judging those families right now, but I've lived in this area for nealy 5 years and have come to understand what kind of help is needed, and it's the hands-on kind that is hard to come by, and not the financial kind. People around here just don't understand about tax breaks. I'll explain more later, gotta run.

[missie_mack]

If you are on a contract and are getting paid above minimum wage then no, you are not entitled to a pay rise.

If you are on a workplace agreement and get paid the minimum wage then each year you get a cpi increase. Its normally on the news and I am pretty sure it only a couple of percent, so it work out to be like an extra $15-$20 a week.

Why aren't those being paid above award wage 'entitled to a pay rise' ? If the cost of living increases every year by not giving them a pay increase it is eroding their wages and effectively giving them less every year :rolleyes:

And wage increases every year are not guarranteed nor are they always at the CPI index. It is something that the unions always have to fight for. There was no increase to the minimum wage in 2009

[pinkandblue]

I know it happens.... but I can't really see how?

I know centrelink doesn't let you earn a lot....

But when my DH was working part time, and i was on PPP... we were still getting about $1400 a fortnight.

That was with 4 children.

I don't know... but $700 was enough for rent, bills, food, childcare, petrol.

Am I just used to living really cheap???? I always though that was kind of ok... it's not 'heaps' but it's enough.

We do a lot of cost saving though, use cloth nappies and stuff, walked instead of drove, DH cycled to work.

We could not survive on $700 a week. Rent is $400, food is $200, thats $600 a week already. Then add in bills, childcare, petrol and the rest.

I guess each person is different.

[motherev2two]

My mum is above award and you are not entitled to a rise as you are getting above award already they only have to raise your wage once the minimum wages reaches what you are being paid then you get the rise like the rest on a regular award... I am pretty sure may be wrong

My mum get a raise every year so is usually $2.00 above an hour than the minimum, Id be be grateful to have a boss who paid above award, well mine usually have lol


It is hard when everything goes up but at least you are doing better than those on the minimum I know people who get $5.00 more an hour doing the same job and DH with less workload at other companies. It would be unlikely that bosses would pay above award if they HAD to give the rise everytime the minimum went up ON TOP of the above award they pay.

Id be grateful if DH's boss paid him well above award like other companies do their staff. He does more than he is meant to everyday as his skills are higher than his position

[amiee]

[QUOTE=missie_mack;4471833]Why aren't those being paid above award wage 'entitled to a pay rise' ? If the cost of living increases every year by not giving them a pay increase it is eroding their wages and effectively giving them less every year :rolleyes:

I wasn't trying to say that people dont deserve a pay rise. I am just saying that you are not entitled to it automatically and if you do get one you are extremly lucky. In my last job I was paid above award and got a pay rise every year, but some of the people I worked with didn't. Its what your boss decides.

[missie_mack]

In my last job I was paid above award and got a pay rise every year, but some of the people I worked with didn't. Its what your boss decides.

No all employees on our award get a wage increase. We bargain our own award every 2 years and it is an award provision. My boss does not give us a pay increase out of the goodness of his heart :no: