Pet Peeves - parents who allow kids to use um and dads diviorce for bad behavior

[liesel]

START RANT:

So I'm a step mum, have been for 3 years now. when i met DSS, DSD & DSS. they were very very very ratty. Mr 7, was very withdrawn and quiet and then lash out physically then burst into tears, ms 3 was agressive, spiteful and very very mean, & Mr 2 was much like ms 3 only less spiteful.

I know their ages come into it a bit but i put up with this for 1.5 years. DH, nanna and BioM saying oh well we have been divorced its tough on them, don't be cross with them for acting out.

Well i put my foot down 1.5 years ago. enough was enough. I sat all 3 down and said I know you guys are hurt because mum and dad dont live together and I know that makes you angry but you can not act like this and let them be an excuse. You will end up with no friends at school and make every one around you upset if you treat people badly. New house rule we will no longer be allowed to act out and let mum and dad be an excuse for our behaviour.

Well .5 years of horribly hard slog and a lot of very long conversations after angry outbursts about why I'm angry and yes you will be punished with time outs, loss of toys and missing out on trips to the park, pool, etc. Well 1 year of things greatly improving we now have 3 very beartiful Mr10, Ms6, Mr 5, and no we never ever use mum and dad as an excuse anymore.

Well I went over to visit some friends for the weekend. their Mr 12 and Miss 9 are horrible children, at times. and very very mean to their mum and step dad. Particularly Mr 12. and mum said to me oh well their dad and I broke up when miss 9 was 6 months old. its hard on them. I cant be cross with their behaviour. NO WAY, not in my books. I explained to this friend how I explained everything to my 3 SC and she asked me to sit down with Mr12 and chat. Well after 1 conversation Mr12 is already treating mum and SD better and thinks I am great. He tells me im tough but he thinks I'm right.

I also go left with their 9yo ADD/ADHD neighbour for a good few hours. (background, I grew up with 2 autistic cousins and a neigbour who had tourette syndrome. so i have a little experience with behavioural difficulties) his mum and dad said to me he is uncontrolably he will never say sorry he wont listen etc he has ADD/ADHD so dont try and talk to him to much, are you sure you are happy to look after him for a bit. Well we managed to apologise to another child after punching him after we had a conversation, he then played nicely for 1hour no problems and oh yes he also went home without a fuss after screaming he didnt want to go and he and I had a 2 minute walk around the back yard and a conversation.

I know its hard, but i emplore all you separated parents and parents with troubled kids not to let your children behave badly because you are divorced or because they have a disability. It's not fair on you or your kids. TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT. Let them know its tough and you understand but its not an excuse. They will grow up to be far better adjusted if they are encouraged to use nothing as an excuse.

anyway end rant. sorry If i upset anyone I know I will probably have but I had to voice it after a very fun but very trying weekend.

Please feel free to tell me you think I'm wrong but please lets try keep it pleasant:yes:


Additional note: I wanted to clarify I don't mean in the first few weeks or month after separation and I also don't mean squash their feelings and make them feel unimportant. I mean don't pass off bad behavior by saying oh its tough emotionally for them for years and years after :)

[Fuchsia!]

Im not a partnered mother so excuse me for being in here, but i thought i would put my opinion through.

My ex walked out on me and the kids about 1 yr ago, i was warned that they eldest who was 5 at the time will lash out and change. I was prepared for it and i tried to help him through it.

It wasn't easy for him, as his father was walking out my son was begging him to stay, he promises he will be good and beg him, howled and screamed to please stay. And his father walked out the door.

I was heartbroken, not only for myself but for my children as well. That following year we all suffered. I was devastated, as much as i trie dto hide it from my kids, they couuld feel my anxiety, and anger at the world and they took that on as well. And with my DS he was trying to deal with not having a father around. He was an emotional wreck, he went through all the stages of anger, bitterness i had to watch him blame me, hate me, then go back to be heartbroken.

These are so many emotions for children to handle for their age. They don't know how to sort themselves out like adults that just consume all these feelings and the only way they know how to get rid of them is by lashing out, being angry.

My DS will never be the same again. He has improved but he lashes out, but i would in NO way say, "hey i understand, but you need to suck it up". He is suffering and he will suffer for the rest of his life.

Your stepkids have a lot to take on, their parents split, they have a stepmum and possibly a step dad, they go from A to B all the time, they probably still don't understand why its all happened.

I don't think telling them to snap out of it is a really good idea, i think it will make the situation worse.

And i think if they are that bad, then i would personally seek professional help like a child psychologist or a counsellor. Telling them that you won't tolerate it will make them think that you don't understand and you don't care.

Its not easy being a child from a split family. maybe some of the other parents on the forum from divorced families might be able to give you some insight on how they felt at the time. It might help with you being more paitent with your step kids.

[liesel]

Im not a partnered mother so excuse me for being in here, but i thought i would put my opinion through.

My ex walked out on me and the kids about 1 yr ago, i was warned that they eldest who was 5 at the time will lash out and change. I was prepared for it and i tried to help him through it.

It wasn't easy for him, as his father was walking out my son was begging him to stay, he promises he will be good and beg him, howled and screamed to please stay. And his father walked out the door.

I was heartbroken, not only for myself but for my children as well. That following year we all suffered. I was devastated, as much as i trie dto hide it from my kids, they couuld feel my anxiety, and anger at the world and they took that on as well. And with my DS he was trying to deal with not having a father around. He was an emotional wreck, he went through all the stages of anger, bitterness i had to watch him blame me, hate me, then go back to be heartbroken.

These are so many emotions for children to handle for their age. They don't know how to sort themselves out like adults that just consume all these feelings and the only way they know how to get rid of them is by lashing out, being angry.

My DS will never be the same again. He has improved but he lashes out, but i would in NO way say, "hey i understand, but you need to suck it up". He is suffering and he will suffer for the rest of his life.

Your stepkids have a lot to take on, their parents split, they have a stepmum and possibly a step dad, they go from A to B all the time, they probably still don't understand why its all happened.

I don't think telling them to snap out of it is a really good idea, i think it will make the situation worse.

And i think if they are that bad, then i would personally seek professional help like a child psychologist or a counsellor. Telling them that you won't tolerate it will make them think that you don't understand and you don't care.

Its not easy being a child from a split family. maybe some of the other parents on the forum from divorced families might be able to give you some insight on how they felt at the time. It might help with you being more paitent with your step kids.

I whole heatedly agree with you. it is tough and they do have an awful lot of emotions that they should not "Suck up".

Perhaps I didn't explain it properly. I am imploring parents not to say that their kids should be allowed to act out because mum and dad broke up.

I am asking and hoping parents with children to talk to their kids, when they get angry ask them to tell you why. explain to them that your break up is not their fault, but also tell them that they are allowed to be sad angry and hurt but that does not allow them to be mean.

Particularly the first year after it is a different story they are going through a grieving process. I'm more talking about the 2+ years down the track when they should have adjusted to the new routine and be coming to the acceptance stage of the grieving process.

Its sounds like you are still in the early stages of the shift.

P.S. my step kids do understand now what has gone on and why, because DH & I sat them down and explained the reasons and told XP what we had said so she knew what we had said. we did not explain the details, that XP left dad for another man because that would have been counter productive, but we explained that mum and dad stopped loving eachother and that they were fighting lots and that mum and dad though it would me much nicer for the kids if they lived in two happy houses rather than 1 grumpy house. It took about a month and a lot more questions but they all came back and said "we have decieded that living in 2 happy houses is better" this is from a 4,5 & 9 yo.

anywho I hope that clears up what I said and I'm glad you posted. :)

[JiminyCricket]

I think kids dont cope with change very well and instabiliy can make them feel inseure and frightened.

I think children will try and 'test parents' to see what they can and cant get away with.

If there aren't consistency with rules and consequences for behaviour then they will play up more.

But not just disipline , they need positive feedback and love and support also.

I think its normal for kids to play up and feel sad and angry for a while after the parents split becuase the whole world as they new it has changed.

[Mrs Mac]

I am a SM, my stepkids are beautiful and most of the time well behaved (in our home anyway).

SDD developed very bad asthma when her mum and dad separated. She never had a problem before apparently but a couple of months afterward is when it begun.

So behavior was not actually an issue in our house but more health issues.

[liesel]

I am a SM, my stepkids are beautiful and most of the time well behaved (in our home anyway).

SDD developed very bad asthma when her mum and dad separated. She never had a problem before apparently but a couple of months afterward is when it begun.

So behavior was not actually an issue in our house but more health issues.

oh I'm sorry to hear that stress does amazing things to the body.. :(

[brizbabe71]

I have an issue here with my 2 bonus daughters in as much that apparently its okay for them to lie & make up stories that are hurtful to others, continue to use appalling table manners, be rude in social situations simply because dp and bm are no longer together-its been more than 3 years and they are 5 1/2 & 8 1/2. I don't get it especially because to me dp & bm aren't doing the girls any long term favours socially and emotionally allowing this type of behaviour to continue

[Pax]

I dont think bad behaviour should be ignored.
I believe children ARE traumatised for a long time after divorce.
I think your step children have benefited from you being a strong role model and helping them to learn better ways to cope with their emotions

well done.

[Pinkzy]

Hi liesel :) I don't think you're wrong at all and I think you've handled/are handling this situation beautifully. Talking to them about it like you did a while ago was a brilliant idea in my opinion as it's important to set rules and boundaries for any kids, whether their parents are divorced/separated or not. While divorce is hard on every child who has to go through it, there is no reason for grown ups to justify their behaviour because of it. Life is hard, life is tough and while compassion and kindness to children who have divorced parents should be shown - justifying bad behaviour and lying isn't on. In the long run it does the kid no favours whatsoever. So I think you're doing a great job as a stepmum :)

[brogeybear]

I dont think bad behaviour should be ignored.
I believe children ARE traumatised for a long time after divorce.
I think your step children have benefited from you being a strong role model and helping them to learn better ways to cope with their emotions

well done.

:iagree:While there is naturally going to be a period of adjustment and grieving, it is no more an excuse for a child to behave inappropriately than it is for the parent to get drunk/abuse the kids, etc. As parents we teach our children behaviour and responsiblity, we are shaping the next generation of adults. Do we want them to say to the judge at their assult trial, "oh well my parents split up so thats why I bashed him". Of course not, so we need to train them now, while they are young.
I think what the OP was trying to highlight is the importance of communication!!! I cannot stress it enough, there is to much yelling and hitting that goes on as so called discipline these days, along with just plain ignoring the behaviour. Have some respect for these little people and speak to them as you would want to be spoken to, explain things to them, by all means "punish" them, whether that be time out, loss of privileges, etc., but please dont turn a blind eye. They need you, they need support and guidance and sometimes just someone to listen to them.

[Phyllis Stein]

I think there are options other than allowing the behaviour to continue OR simply "laying down the law". Isn't good parenting a bit more nuanced than just forcing our children to conform to our wishes? Where there's smoke there's usually fire, so I'd be concerned that simply suppressing the behaviour is going to do more harm than addressing the basis of it.

I'd be interested in finding out more specifics, what exactly is going through their minds. Lots and lots of communication, aimed at getting them to express their feelings, not just using our superior intellectual skills to manipulate them into more likeable behaviour. If the behaviour continued, despite trying to address the root causes, I'd be getting them into some appropriate counselling with a child psychologist.

[Pinkzy]

I think there are options other than allowing the behaviour to continue OR simply "laying down the law". Isn't good parenting a bit more nuanced than just forcing our children to conform to our wishes? Where there's smoke there's usually fire, so I'd be concerned that simply suppressing the behaviour is going to do more harm than addressing the basis of it.

I'd be interested in finding out more specifics, what exactly is going through their minds. Lots and lots of communication, aimed at getting them to express their feelings, not just using our superior intellectual skills to manipulate them into more likeable behaviour. If the behaviour continued, despite trying to address the root causes, I'd be getting them into some appropriate counselling with a child psychologist.

I agree, although when hubby's daughter was coming here every 2nd weekend it was a case of needing to lay down the law. Obviously, both myself and her father made it clear she could talk to us about anything, anything at all. Be it her mum, school, friends, anything that was troubling her. She also has autism, so we would try our best to do everything we could in the way of managing it, even though she was only here the 2 days.

We also had to make it clear though that "playing mum and dad off against each other" was absolutely not on (this got quite bad, still is) and that if she did this, well, there'd be punishment and consequences. She also used to go home to her mother with bogus and at times quite disturbing/serious lies about me...she was told under no circumstances could that continue or she'd simply not be allowed to come here anymore. Sadly, these visits stopped in August because she wouldn't stop lying and it all became too much. Her mum believed the lies her child told every single time and made every visit her daughter had here impossible (for all of us)...so these days she just sees her dad every 2nd Saturday instead to avoid any more heartache. She still plays them off against each other though :no: Her dad tries to put a stop to this, but because the mother encourages it, I can't see it ending and that isn't the kid's fault...it's the mum's. At the same time though, this child is almost 9 years old and the whole "I misbehave because daddy left 4 years ago - which makes it OK" thing is getting old for everyone involved.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but I just think that with the divorce rate being so high in this country, if every child was allowed to continue behaving badly solely because their parents split, well we'd have an even tougher situation with disruptive children in schools, daycare etc and that's not fair on the kids who've been bought up with manners and who behave - whether their parents are still together or not.

[Mathermy]

I have nothing but compassion for children of divorce, at least the adults in these situations have the luxury of choice whereas the children do not. Very sad :(

[meme]

oh. It's not like it is black and white, there are some grey areas I think.
Not sure if I can even put into words what I am thinking.


Particularly the first year after it is a different story they are going through a grieving process. I'm more talking about the 2+ years down the track when they should have adjusted to the new routine and be coming to the acceptance stage of the grieving process.

IMO the grievingprocess does not have a time limit. particularly for kids, who are growing and developing, changing their veiw of the world by understanding it in more complex ways as they get older. For this reason, the grief and emotional impact of divorce may not be something that just happens and then fades into insignificance.
Personally in our family it has been death, not divorce, that we have dealt with and just passing the 3 year anniversary has not magically put the grief to rest. I am still dealing with my childrens emotions in relation to the change in our family. every year they start a new grade or meet new people who ask them about their dad they think about it all and are affected by it.

Their emotions do affect their behaviour, and while it is not an excuse for mis behaviour I think it is important to understand that the basis for it is from something out of their control. Knowing this helps me find the best way to deal with the misbehaviour, which will be most helpful for my childrens mental wellbeing.
For instance, my middle dd misbahaves a bit. I have her seeing a therapist, she is an anxious child. dealing with her behaviour does not involve turning a blind eye, but it also needs consequences that support her to be less anxious. Some of this is starting with positive parenting before any misbehviour, to prevent misbehviour. I think this is very important with kids going through grief and change. recognising they may need extra support may head off problems before they start.
Threats, yelling and hitting or tough punishments would not help her behaviour, she can't be told to snap out of it as she doesn't really have control of it, she is just trying to keep her little world stable.

as for the op, I think what you are saying is that kids need boundaries. and that is very fair.

I think it is really unfair though to look at kids who are dealing with stuff that is hard to deal with, who are acting out and judge their parents as bad parents if they excuse some of that behaviour on the grounds that their lives are a bit tough.

I couldn't take my kids out for ages as their behviour was off the wall. but I could barely deal with life at that time. that my kids were being fed and we got through it was important to me. relaxing the rules of behaviour for a little while was part of that for my family. I just couldnt' discipline my kids as well while I was grieving, and that to me is excusable. I think that perhaps because you were not involved in the divorce it is easier for you to pick up the discipline reigns, and that is great. I am sure the kids will benefit from having stable boundaries.

my kids and I are improving from where we were every year, but it's not something that just doesn't affect us anymore. I think it always will. My parents divorce still affects who I am too:p but I do look at it throughmore grown up eyes now! ( most of the time:o)

[Fuchsia!]

I think there are options other than allowing the behaviour to continue OR simply "laying down the law". Isn't good parenting a bit more nuanced than just forcing our children to conform to our wishes? Where there's smoke there's usually fire, so I'd be concerned that simply suppressing the behaviour is going to do more harm than addressing the basis of it.

I'd be interested in finding out more specifics, what exactly is going through their minds. Lots and lots of communication, aimed at getting them to express their feelings, not just using our superior intellectual skills to manipulate them into more likeable behaviour. If the behaviour continued, despite trying to address the root causes, I'd be getting them into some appropriate counselling with a child psychologist.

Yeah i agree. Also what Meme said about there no time limit on grief. I still have friends that are traumatised 20yrs on.

It doesn't just magically disapear, it can take years and sometime it may ever go away and affect them some way for the rest of their lives.

[liesel]

Some awesome discussion and its great to hear both sides.

I agree with Pinkvanillaz it is almost impossible when kids play of parent. Particularly when one parent encourages it. you will never win. My DH and I just say we wont let you play us off against mum, we will talk to mum and ask her what she thinks, what you are doing is not fair to us or to yourself. We now have a decent working relationship with mum only very recently able to talk to her which was an exciting development. I have no idea how well that would work with an autistic child probably not so well depending on their level of Autism. I wish you luck to see improvemnt there.

Meme I also agree with you there is absolutely no time limit on the grieving process and nothing is black and white. however I do believe that sometimes "acceptance"(for want of a better word) and moving forward must be encouraged and that is through positive reinforcement and not allowing a single moment to rule every future action. You are definately comming from a different world loosing stability due to death (Something I cant imagine). I do agree that kids need to be encouraged to express their emotions but in a productive way. (another home example. Miss 6 came up to DH and I today. going on 4.5 years after mum and dads divorce and said she was confused and didnt know where she wanted to be at the moment, she asked why she couldnt spend 1 night with us then 1 night with mum. we had to explain to her how that would be disruptive to school and with dad at school to it might be hard.) we allways encourage communication and reafirm positive behaviour.

Yeah kids need boundries and dont they love to push them!!!! :yes::yes::yes: ( a health kid pushes them a bit i think)
&
Kids should be encouraged to understand and express their emotions in positive ways, even if that just means sayin I am angry today, dont know why.

Meme I wish you and you kids a positive future and I belive you are doing a good job hey you have the lines open with your kids and that the most important part, I congratulate you :shakehands:

>>>

Yes I probably shouldnt judge parents. I hate judgemental people.. OOPS :confused: :gloomy:

Actuall Situation details that started me on the rant: (please tell me if I was am reacting)
I was mortified that a 12yo was allowed to throw an incredible tantrum and pull all the plugs out of a playstation that a 7yo was about to play becuase he didnt want to share because they had a barney 15 minutes earlier. The parents responded with no dicipline, no thats not alright, or even a please plug the Ps back in. Merely oh he is having a tough time because dad left. (dad left 9 years ago) they didnt even plug the play station back in for the 7yo but the 12yo went straight back to his WII in the other room that he ran out of when he heard the 7yo turning it on??? I was perplexed.


ITS ALL ABOUT BALANCE

[meme]

no I don't think you are overreacting to think that there should be some boundaries and consequences for that sort of behaviour. it's ok to say that he is not handling his emotions because of family situations but to not guide him on how to better handle them, or teach him what is and is not acceptable. well that is just not fair on the child.


It sounds like you are a very switched on mumma and have great communication and a situation where all parents can communicate too. I think in divorce it is so important that the adults can all work together.

[liesel]

no I don't think you are overreacting to think that there should be some boundaries and consequences for that sort of behaviour. it's ok to say that he is not handling his emotions because of family situations but to not guide him on how to better handle them, or teach him what is and is not acceptable. well that is just not fair on the child.


It sounds like you are a very switched on mumma and have great communication and a situation where all parents can communicate too. I think in divorce it is so important that the adults can all work together.

It never use to be like that.. I am so so so so so so so have I said enough so's glad that BioMum and I get on well now. strangely enough it all changed after she had another baby to her boyfriend. It is Outstanding. I/we (the 3 of us, me, mum & dad) her BF isn't interested or helpful to her (I think she is having a tought time :no:) We are very lucky to have learn't to get along.

Anyway. Again I really wanted to thank you for putting your 10c in. It helped me see all the sahded of grey rather than just 1 or 2 :yelclap::yelclap::yelclap::yelclap:

thankyou