Disease: Random act of god?

[AM]

I am wondering if vaxers feel that contracting a disease is simply a random act of god, there is nothing apart from vaxing which will help to prevent a person getting the disease.
I see so often people stating that their incredibly healthy child got such and such a disease, my view is that disease is normally repelled from a healthy optimally functioning organism, and there are always factors involved in a disease actually taking a foothold.
Healthy individuals do get sick of course, but I would expect a truly healthy individual to fight off a disease fairly rapidly, with minimal effects, leaving in it's wake an immune system which is stronger for having had to deal with the disease, thus creating appropriate antibodies, and increased immunity.
I prefer to find out the risk factors which will help a disease take hold, and then work with nature, and my/my childs pure immune system to minimise those factors, therefore lessening potential risk (this is one of the reasons I breastfeed my children until they wean themselves, for example)
If my child got a serious illness, I would be asking myself these sorts of questions.

Is my childs diet as good as it can be?
Is my child getting enough sleep?
Is my child reasonably free from stress and living in a safe and secure environment?
Is my child happy?
Is my child getting substances which can help to boost his/her immune system to its optimum level?
Is my childs environment too sterile, is there an overuse of anti bacterial substances/antibiotics?
Is there a genetic predisposition to certain conditions, needing a specialised approach to those conditions?
Are there cleanliness/contamination issues?
Is my child drinking enough fluid?
Is my child having too much sugar/processed foods?
And any others I could think of at the time...:)

Of course there are management factors particular to certain conditions, eg Tetanus, which can only exist in an anerobic (oxygen free) environment, therefore correct wound management can drastically reduce it's incidence etc.

Is that sort of reasoning part of your quest to keep yourself/your child healthy, or is a disease simply a random occurrence to you?

[Chickadee]

Is that sort of reasoning part of your quest to keep yourself/your child healthy, or is a disease simply a random occurrence to you?
I'm slightly offended by your question, and struggling to understand my own reaction. :confused: I think maybe it is because you have grouped illnesses for which vaccinations are recommended with issues of general good health. Of course I do most if not all of the things you list to try to keep my child in general good health, and yes I believe that those things may help to protect her from colds, asthama and allergies. But I don't for a minute believe that the actions you list would protect her from getting polio, or chicken pox, or measles, etc. So I vaccinate.

[AM]

Definitely not trying to offend, I was pondering why two seemingly healthy individuals may have very different reactions to a disease doing the rounds, and whether people use other methods, in addition to vaxing (if that is their choice) to try to sway the odds in their favour, because vaccinated people can still catch the diseases they are vaccinated against.

I dont see chicken pox or measles as a necessarily bad thing, and most of the other vpds are rare enough I don't see them as having enough threat to push me to put vax's into my childs bodies. Whooping cough can usually be managed quite well by homoeopathics.

I'm just pondering the level of personal responsibility people take on board with regard to contracting disease, or if it is usually put down to bad luck, wrong place, wrong time kinda thing...

Just interested in peoples take on it really, ... no biggie!! :thumbsup:

[Nickster]

Hmm, well, I'm a vaxer, and my child recently caught whooping cough, so I'll answer your questions:

Is my childs diet as good as it can be? absolutely - apart from an occasional "naughty" treat, we go all natural & no preservatives here - still breastfeeding
Is my child getting enough sleep? as good as it can be - we co-sleep
Is my child reasonably free from stress and living in a safe and secure environment? couldn't be better - DH and I have a very happy marriage and adore our little girl - we try our best to treat her with empathy and love
Is my child happy? see above - and we get plenty of smiles and cuddles
Is my child getting substances which can help to boost his/her immune system to its optimum level? fruit and veges, yes.
Is my childs environment too sterile, is there an overuse of anti bacterial substances/antibiotics? no, lots of happy germs in my house:o
Is there a genetic predisposition to certain conditions, needing a specialised approach to those conditions?no
Are there cleanliness/contamination issues?no
Is my child drinking enough fluid?all that she wants - there is always a drink on offer
Is my child having too much sugar/processed foods?I don't think so
And any others I could think of at the time...:)

Another question to answer: Is my child vaccinated? Yes!

I believe in a healthy environment and diet to assist in the prevention of diseases, but as we know, that is hardly going to stop diptheria, measles, chickenpox, polio, mumps, rubella, etc etc.

My question would be to non-vaxers - do you seriously believe that doing all of the above will protect your child from the above diseases?

[jessgray]

my ds has had all his vax's and he is getting the chicken pox one in ocotber i know it wont stop him from getting it completly i would rather him get a case that is manageable without having to go to a hospital then to risk not vaxing. its really up to each parent :)
i know some vax's have risks etc.
my ds has allergies and asthma as do i. i cannot see how this would impact on the descion to vax or not. if a child gets chicken pox they will become immune to it so vaxxing is only a precaution.

Is my childs diet as good as it can be? yes considering he has allergies
Is my child getting enough sleep? yes
Is my child reasonably free from stress and living in a safe and secure environment? yes
Is my child happy?yes
Is my child getting substances which can help to boost his/her immune system to its optimum level? he takes multi-vitamins
Is my childs environment too sterile, is there an overuse of anti bacterial substances/antibiotics? no, some of the cleaning products that say they are anti bacterial i find trigger my asthma so i avoid them and try to use other ones.
Is there a genetic predisposition to certain conditions, needing a specialised approach to those conditions? i am asthmatic, my 3 siblings have asthma only 1 doesnt. and i have allergies as do most of my family.
Are there cleanliness/contamination issues?no
Is my child drinking enough fluid?yes
Is my child having too much sugar/processed foods?my ds refuses to eat sweet foods unless its fruit. he cant eat most porcessed foods as most contain things liek dairy or soy.

[AM]

I was meaning pure in the way of not having had vaccines!:)

[Chickadee]

most of the other vpds are rare enough I don't see them as having enough threat to push me to put vax's into my childs bodies.
I guess, here in Australia at least. We travel the world alot and I expect my daughter will too, so I'd rather have her protected now rather than have to worry about it at the last minute if we get offered a job posting in Africa.

We're going to differ in opinions on this, and I don't expect to be able to change each other's minds (I'm not even trying), but in addition to providing good food, rest, etc as in your list, I believe that preventative vaccination is part of helping her to grow up healthy. That's just my opinion. If my daughter got a serious disease then I think yes, I would question whether there was anything I could have done differently to prevent it. Of course I would: I'm a mother so have an ingrained sense of responsibilty to protect her and also guilt if I fail in that role in some way. But I would feel terrible if we didn't vaccinate her and then she got sick and it turned out that one of the things I could have done differently was to have vaccinated her!

[AM]

Whether you get immunity from vaccine/catching disease your immune system would still not be pure, it has developed antibodies to protect you.

To me that IS immunilogical purity! (getting the disease that is)

[WeThree]

I am wondering if vaxers feel that contracting a disease is simply a random act of god, there is nothing apart from vaxing which will help to prevent a person getting the disease.



mmmm, Im with Martha, I have to say I find your post slightly offensive. Im on the fence when it comes to vaxxing my children, and my youngest is not vaxed, but no matter how you try to justify it or whatever, the only reason I and others like me have this option is because most children in Australia are vaccinated, thats just the way it is. If we didnt have vaccinations to certain diseases such as polio for instance, it wouldnt matter a brass razoo how healthy your diet was or how much sleep you got, diseases such as these are not choosy.
So in answer to your question I think that yes, apart from vaxing there is nothing that will stop you from getting SOME diseases (oh except for maybe all your neighbours vaxing their kids instead, so your child is not exposed to it ;) )
I wish there was a better way, I hate the thought of all that extra **** they put in immunisations going into those little bodies, but I dont forget how blessed I am to live somewhere where I actually have the choice to inject it into my child or not, I know you will put up links that show evidence that the diseases naturally come and go anyway, and that eating a healthy organic diet and clean water is more effective in stopping these diseases, and that can be true, but you only need one person to come to your neck of the woods who hasnt had the luxury of clean water etc and who has one of these diseases and it will spread if people arent vaed, no matter how healthy they are.

[AM]

O Martha, if I lived anywhere other than OZ/NZ, I would have to weigh things up again, to see if my risk/benefit analysis between what is in the vax's and their potential effects, and the actual incidence of the disease would change my present course of action.
So I totally understand where you are coming from. :thumbsup:

[~Emmylou~]

mmmm, Im with Martha, I have to say I find your post slightly offensive. Im on the fence when it comes to vaxxing my children, and my youngest is not vaxed, but no matter how you try to justify it or whatever, the only reason I and others like me have this option is because most children in Australia are vaccinated, thats just the way it is. If we didnt have vaccinations to certain diseases such as polio for instance, it wouldnt matter a brass razoo how healthy your diet was or how much sleep you got, diseases such as these are not choosy.


:yes:
I totally agree.
I don't believe in random acts of god ;) But I do think that no matter what you do, how healthy you are, or how "purely" you try to keep yourself, healthy kids can still get these diseases.
Basically it's a risk assesment for me and there are some risks I'm not willing to take.
I also get slightly offended when non-vaxxers start on about this, I honestly do feel that you only have the luxury of being able to refuse vaccination because I, and others who feel the same as me, don't. There is not likely to be an epidemic of polio, pneumococcal, etc any time soon because most people vax so you're pretty safe ;)

[Mister Noodle]

What MarthaM Said.

Infectious diseases are a result of *surprise!* infection. Contact with other individuals that carry the disease.

An unhealthy lifestyle might lower your ability to cope with an infection (by a few percent), but it cannot and will not *cause* an infectious disease.

Similarly, a particularly healthy lifestyle might have your immune system running at peak performance, and increase your ability to cope with disease (by a few percent), but it cannot and will not prevent you from catching it in the first place.

The ONLY thing that will reliably (or even close to reliably) prevent infection, should you encounter the bacteria / viruses involved, is having an immune system that's already primed to deal with them. And the only way to achieve that is through vaccination.

[Grizabella]

The reason Aust/NZ is relatively safe from these diseases is because of immunisation. Not because a lot of people caught the disease, recovered, produced antibodies and become immune. I am a firm believer in vaccing. I have seen firsthand how the so-called relatively "harmless" disease as chicken pox can affect an adult. Go to you local hosptital, ask to talk to an adult suffering from Shingles and see how harmless it is.

[Mister Noodle]

Also, I consider it my social duty to vaccinate myself and my family so that we do not ourselves catch the disease and pass it on to others.

[WeThree]

The ONLY thing that will reliably (or even close to reliably) prevent infection, should you encounter the bacteria / viruses involved, is having an immune system that's already primed to deal with them. And the only way to achieve that is through vaccination.

:yes: :yes:
To have no resistance to anything whatsoever, either by living a completly 'pure' lifestyle or by having never come in to contact with any sort of viruses/bacteria etc will have the opposite effect on you that you seem to think it will, you will not be able to cope with the infection you come into contact with any better than anyone else, you will be dropping like flies.

Also the implication that anyone who vaxers must have no clue about healthy eating or hygeine, is bound to get some peoples backs up as well.

[AM]

acknowledge the toxins in our food, environment and atmosphere that we breathe, consume and absorb "accidently" on a daily basis may play a large part in rising numbers of autism, bowel disease... but please look at our "whole" lifestyles.

I certainly DO acknowledge these things, and evidence points to these things contributing to the massive rise in degenerative disease. Scary, but probably another topic where there is masses to say!

[WeThree]

I guess, I am unhappy with a lot of the ingredients in vaccines and have carefully thought out what we do/don't have, but what makes me cross about these threads is that the non vaxxers here are very one eyed at pointing the finger directly at vaccines and will not even acknowledge the toxins in our food, environment and atmosphere that we breathe, consume and absorb "accidently" on a daily basis may play a large part in rising numbers of autism, bowel disease etc.

And lets not forget all those signals and stuff passing through our bodies constantly thanks to wireless phones, internet, tv etc!! :eek:


Some really good sites have come out of these discussions and I thank the non vaxxeers for that, but please look at our "whole" lifestyles.

:yes: :yes: ..................

[AM]

The ONLY thing that will reliably (or even close to reliably) prevent infection, should you encounter the bacteria / viruses involved, is having an immune system that's already primed to deal with them. And the only way to achieve that is through vaccination.

Some may say primed, others may say compromised...

[Grizabella]

I'd consider dying from Polio a little more compromising....

[AM]

vaxed people die too...

[Grizabella]

Yes that is true. However their chances of dying from a preventable disease such as polio is significantly lower then that of an unvaccinated person.

[Mister Noodle]

Everyone does.

But about 95% fewer vaccinated people contract (and thus die of) the diseases they've been vaccinated against than non-vaccinated people.

Do the math.

(and exactly *who* would say that an immune system has been 'compromised' by having built up a store of antibodies to fend off a disease?)

[Chickadee]

From the last few posts, this is threatening to turn into a slinging match between vax and non-vax. If it continues the thread will be closed.

Lets get back to the original question posed in the opening post please and make it a constructive discussion.

[Grizabella]

JINX guys!

[Tannie]

Whilst I fully acknowledge and accept the benefits of leading a lifestyle as healthy and "toxin free" as possible MAY prevent against certain lifestyle related illnesses and perhaps make one just that bit healthier to fight off infections............believing that by doing this you will be protected against the communicable diseases we vaccinate against, is living in fools paradise!
Someone mentioned a while back that they weren't vaccinating because these diseases weren't very common anymore.........oh.......duh......maybe consider they aren't common anymore because of vaccination programs :detective: ???

Those of you who also believe that breastfeeding, homeopathics and alternative remedies can stop preventable disease infection are also kidding yourself - take a look at the ABA recommendations, teh UK homeopathic society (and others) and you will find they all recommend vaccination and don't claim that their "intervention" can stop these diseases.

I've worked in and around healthcare for 20 yrs now and I can tell you that disease, death and infirmity can and will strike anyone and everyone sometimes it's just bad luck.......just gotta be "wrong place, wrong time" and if you live in our globalised world were travel is so fast and we are all in each others faces everyday......sometimes disease DOES SEEM TO STRIKE AT RANDOM (but it's not really - we're all breathing in the same air etc) and the only way to prevent yourself / your kids is to lower the risk via immunisation.

Also - I know that some people can lead the most exemplary "healthy" life and still die from cancers, heart disease etc etc etc. Go into a few childrens hospitals and look at the kids with many illnesses and diseases......are their parents ALL feeding them junkfood and explosing them to chemicals etc all day every day??? NUH - you'll see average families, poor families, rich families, healthy eaters, fast food eaters, country people, city people, conservative people/ families and alternative families and EVERYTHING in between!!

To say that we can protect our children just by feeding them healthy diet, making sure they get a lot of quality sleep, loving them, caring for them and keeping their life as chemical free as possible..........well, yes, it might make them slightly more healthy overall....but I think you are seriously deluding yourself if you think this will prevent them ever getting sick etc.

Ask any parent whose child has Insulin Dependent Diabetes / leukemia / other cancers HOW they got it? Who knows? No one does at this point................I'm sure 99.9% of these kids are loved and cared for - but still they got sick?? It's insulting to suggest that only people who don't care for their children etc end up with sick kids - well - plain silly really.

What we DO KNOW FOR SURE, is that vaccination works. It definitely STOPS large portions of the population getting these illnesses, even though it doesn't always work in 100% of people vaccinated. Every legitimate health organisation in the entire world agrees with this........WHO, Unicef, ALL the medical and scientific organisations pretty much...............if vaccination was so evil and bad - surely by now, after all the billions of people who have been vaccinated - the "bad" effects would be clearly evident? With most other drugs that cause side effects it only take a few thousand for clusters adn issues to show their face.......so how on earth could there be a huge conspiricy about vaccination with SO MANY PEOPLE being vaccinated ALL THE TIME for the last 60 odd years??!!!!

I don't believe in conspiricy theory and I don't believe in random acts - I believe in solid evidence-based science, lowering risks and taking calculated risks. those of you who don't vaccinate are benefiting becuase most of us do vaccinate - this might be hard for you to accept - but it's proven fact.

Also remember that anyone can set up a website and call themself whatever "expert" they like!!! So if you are looking for good, factual information - I would seriously doubt you are going to find it on many of these dodgy pseudoscience, alarmist websites.

T

[Grizabella]

(this is one of the reasons I breastfeed my children until they wean themselves, for example)

Not trying to turn this into a Bf vs FF thread. But I would have LOVED to have BF my son. However it wasn't possible. I find comments such as these rather hurtful and inconsiderate.

[Chickadee]

Not trying to turn this into a Bf vs FF thread. But I would have LOVED to have BF my son. However it wasn't possible. I find comments such as these rather hurtful and inconsiderate.

I'm sure the OP included the statement about BF only to illustrate that it is a choice she has made based at least in part on her beliefs around building immunity. And I agree that she was lucky to be able to make that choice, some of us are not. But her comment was not phrased in any way as an attack on non-bf mothers or to imply other mothers should feel guilty. Don't take it out of context as a personal criticism.

[Grizabella]

Oh No I wasn't getting upset at Aijent :) I understood the reason she put it in there. I was more annoyed at the original use of it as an example of healthy and pure lifestyle. But I'm not angry. Just wanted to point out that it was a little inconsiderate.

[faery]

wow Yetti, I could pull some quotes and specifically respond, but really why bother?
not only is your post offensive to myself, i'd assume that others who live "alternate lifestyles" complete with "alternate medicine" would be equally annoyed.

okay, i will pull a quote, something about knowing for sure that vax works. what is this works?? vaxed people still get disease. is that working?
the issue for myself is not so much wether they "work" or not, but the side effects that can arise. I know efficacy studies are done and basic safety studies are conducted but no LONG TERM safety studies have been conducted on vaccines. The interest and funding is just not there for epidemilogical studies to be conducted on such issues as auto immune conditions such as multiple sclerosis etc. hmmm that alone is enough to turn me off. do i have proof that all of the chronic and degenerative disease seen today (in adults and children) is caused by vacinnations? no. but do you have proof that it isn't?

in answer to the op question, we do all that and more to ensure that our child and ourselves is healthy and happy. will this prevent them from getting sick? no. but WE ARE NOT TRYING TO PREVENT ANYTHING. this seems to be the point that most people miss in the old vax/don't vax argument. I am not living in fear of diseases, diseases that began their decline BEFORE vacinations were introduced. do i think that my child can avoid the horrors or cancer or diabetes or whatever? not for sure. no one can be sure what they will have to deal with in their life. but i do know that I am doing the best i can for him in ensuring that he is healthy and has a strong immune system able to fight off infections properly. and knowing that if he does get sick, with anything from the common cold to the measles of worse, we have many many tools at our disposal to help him through it. INCLUDING lots and lots of types of "alternative" medicine.

I don't think that vaxers care less about their kids or anything stupid like that. i have friends who have vaxed for a variety of reasons, and ones who haven't. we all love our kids the same and are out to do the best by them. i think this is a well established point in the whole debate. what i think is totally unnecessary is attaking those who STRONGLY believe in natural preventative medicine as living in a fools paradise, or being deluded. the medical model has given us one answer to the question of disease. well, that is not good enough for me.

[reAllytee]

Im sorry polio was not on the decline before vaccinations were introduced & look what has happened now since vaccinations were stopped for ONE year in Africa. It went from only being present in 4 countries to a whopping 15-18 !!!! Thats shows how quickly it can spread & take hold. Yes it may not be around at this stage but it certainly is only held back by vaccinating & keeping it up. Its a plane ride away. Someone could enter our country not knowing they are carrying this disease & spread it very very easily. This only happened earlier this year with measles & a traveling spiritual leader. Its not a random act of god & yes it only attacks some but gees im not willing to find out if my child is the one out of two hundred that gets the paralytic version but im also not willing to allow my child to be one of the one hundred & ninety nine that are carriers.

I have to agree with Martha on this i am a little offended by what has been said & i also feel upset to think that you would think the idea of my Mother catching polio as a child as a way of culling the "weak" from our midst. Because i can tell you if you go & talk to say my Mum or any of her friends who have survived this disease i can tell you that you will not find a stronger bunch of men & women around.

Im sorry but im actually quite flabbergasted by this im trying to sit here & write a reply yet i cant even find the words.

[Puk]

I was meaning pure in the way of not having had vaccines!:)

I don't see the difference. It's my understanding that a vaccine gives you a small dose of a virus so that your body can build up it's own antibodies so it would be the same as having had the virus anyway.

The problem is that diseases such as chicken pox are "safe" enough for young children so if you don't vaccinate they can still get it and build up antiobodies but let's think about something like Rubella. It's not a disease that children commonly get in childhood so if you don't vaccinate against it, chances are you won't build up antibodies. If that's the case and you contract it whilst pregnant, for example, it can be much, much more damaging! I don't see how a healthy diet and environmental factors can make a difference to you getting a disease like that.

That's my understanding anyway, i could be wrong.

[faery]

i also feel upset to think that you would think the idea of my Mother catching polio as a child as a way of culling the "weak" from our midst.

hey ally, i hope u don't think that i'm implying that:no: i don't subscribe to this "culling the weak" theory that is floating around.

i've read your posts about your mum alot and it's such a clear example of how our experience shapes our decisions. if my mum had gotten some disease i might have a very different view of many things right now.

[my_lot]

as some of you may know i have a 9 year old that had pneumococcal disease at 19 months of age.

yesterday i was in another thread where apprenticemomma said


I would hazard a guess that the girl so badly affected by the chick pox may have other health issues as well, increasing her succeptibility to disease.


to which i posted

id say that is a hazard guess!

my healthy, happy, talking,walking daughter got pneumococcal disease. there was NO other health issues that "increased her succeptibility".


so i guess this was the start of this thread being started.

to set you straight again momma...

my daughter WAS NOT immunised against pneumococcal disease. it was not part of the immunisation program back then. it was not even a disease id heard about until the day my child was in ICU and a DR told us the results of her blood test.

this child was my first born. she was my world. i did everything to ensure she was happy and healthy.

we went to pre-school for the day before, for family photo day. after that we went to the local park for a picnic lunch. she went to bed that night as normal and woke up with a temp and very sleepy. her ears were red and her hands and feet cold ( all signs of the disease- I WONDER HOW MANY MOTHERS KNOW THIS?? I DIDNT!)
i was worried about her being sooo sleepy- so i took her to my GP. he said it was an ear infection... (shed never even had an ear infection before this)

with-in four hours she was in hospital with-in 8 hours she was in ICU.

this was the start of hell....and a very very very long road to recovery.

how many times do you think i sat by her bed watching the machines breath for her, finding my baby between the wires and tubes, wanting to kiss her ghostly looking face -wondering what on earth i could have done differently?

you are very dilusional apprenticemooma if you think what your doing will protect your children.

what your doing for your children is what any other mother gives theirs- the best they can.

its not special-its normal. and its not enough for some diseases.

[reAllytee]

hey ally, i hope u don't think that i'm implying that:no: i don't subscribe to this "culling the weak" theory that is floating around.

i've read your posts about your mum alot and it's such a clear example of how our experience shapes our decisions. if my mum had gotten some disease i might have a very different view of many things right now.


No not at all faery :hugs: it wasnt directly aimed at anyone but there are a few around who seem to have this theory & it really astounds me.

[faery]

:hugs: back at you
i always try to be as unoffensive as possible:laughing: and was hoping i hadn't totally missed the mark

[Chickadee]

what your doing for your children is what any other mother gives theirs- the best they can.

its not special-its normal. and its not enough for some diseases.
Well said :)

We all want the best for our children and make decisions according to what we think is best. Some of us are just going to differ on what we think is best when it comes to parenting issues like immunisation.

[MilkOnTap]

I am wondering if vaxers feel that contracting a disease is simply a random act of god, there is nothing apart from vaxing which will help to prevent a person getting the disease --> ApprenticeMomma
No, contracting a disease is not a random act of God. It is something that happens to every day people every day. I am a bit of a fence-sitter when it comes to vax debates, but I do know the facts. Since vax's have been introduced a significantally lower percentage of vax-preventable diseases have been contracted by those who have been vaxed.

Homeopathy, organic lifestyles etc are definitely positive choices when it comes to promoting good health and wellbeing - I would much prefer to have a glass of water and massage my temples anyday rather than take panadol. But when it comes to life threatening diseases, I would prefer a small amount of immune now, rather than an attack later on.

[WeThree]

what i think is totally unnecessary is attaking those who STRONGLY believe in natural preventative medicine as living in a fools paradise, or being deluded. the medical model has given us one answer to the question of disease. well, that is not good enough for me.

I agree :yes: What I also feel is unnecessary is the attacking of those who STRONGLY believe in vaxing their children as living in a fools paradise, or being deluded ;) and the subtle and not so subtle comments by non vaxers that vaxers are somehow unaware of the dangers of vaxing or the lifestyle choices that us parents can make for our children to ensure their optimal health, I think you will find many many parents who vax also rely heavily on all natural products, organic produce and no chemicals around the home, like my_lost said, its not special, its normal.
Im not really here in a mod capacity atm, so excuse my slightly strong opinions on this subject, but it just gets draining when you always start to see the same thing, this unnecessary division between parents, the smugness that some have that what they are doing is so enlightened and right, and everyone else is in the dark, we dont need that here at bubhub, we want respect for all informed parenting choices, I totally respect peoples rights to vax and not to vax, and I dont for one minute think that those choices have been taken lightly or without thorough research, so how hard is it for others to do the same? There are negatives and positives to not vaxing, just as there are negatives and positives to vaxing, all you can do is decide if the positves outweight the negatves for you and your family, and hope for the best.

[Tea Lady]

Just for something different, I'm going to answer the OP question :rolleyes:

No, I don't think vaccinating is the only thing I can do to prevent my child getting sick. I do think it is the most effective thing though for many diseases. As someone (Mr N?) said earlier the only thing that can make you catch a disease is the virus / bacteria itself - eg you're not going to spontaneously mutate your own measles virus for no reason.

It is common knowledge though that vaxs aren't a guarantee against catching things so I make sure I'm pretty careful about hygiene, especially when we're around alot of people.

As far as I understand it, the introduction of basic hygiene practices has done alot more to curb disease than things like eating unprocessed food etc.

I think any parent would do all they could to help their child to stay as healthy as possible, whether or not they feel they should vax their kids. :)

[WeThree]

LOL TL, If you read back you will see that most of us did answer the OP in our initial posts, we just keep on coming back and :ecomcity: :ecomcity: because some of us (not me of course :rolleyes: ) just cant keep our big noses out of things. :p

[Tea Lady]

:laughing: I know - I just couldn't resist having a dig;)

[MilkOnTap]

Just for something different, I'm going to answer the OP question :rolleyes:
Oh - I did! I'm waiting for someone to quote me and bite back so I can get off-track - hehehe ;) :D

[my_lot]

coopsntilly: you just called me my_lost..... was that a hint ??:D

[AppleBlossym]

[quote=ApprenticeMomma] (this is one of the reasons I breastfeed my children until they wean themselves, for example)QUOTE]

Another fine and dandy statement to make but not often a reality. My last two children aged 7 and 3 would still be feeding if I hadn't weaned them. There is no real nutritional/immuno benefit after 6 months, but rather the tactile/comfort factors.
I fed my 3 yo up until March this year and besides it being embarrassing to have her pulling my breast out in public, I wanted them back for me. She still fondles me when we cuddle and tries to latch on.:o My eldest son who was formula fed is actually the most robust and healthiest of my 5 kids.

I totally disagree with you on the breastfeeding! There are ample amounts of information from the world heath org that states that b/fing after 6 months is still VERY beneficial to a childs health. It is NOT just for comfort!:no:

It is good for the chils immune system to b/feed after 6 months!

[cait]

I am very comfortable with the fact that I vaxxed my son - for many reasons.

A good affirmation for me was that my brother in law was not vaccinated. At 19 he contracted the mumps and discovered when he and his wife tried to fall pregnant 7 years later that he is now infertile. It was totally devistating for them.

While my decision was not based on this (I had already vaxxed my son), it forms part of my opinion that I have done the right thing.

[WeThree]

oops, sorry my_lot, no it wasnt a hint!! :p
Cait did you used to have a different user name? me thinks I suddenly know who you are..... :yes:

[rynosmum]

what your doing for your children is what any other mother gives theirs- the best they can.

its not special-its normal. and its not enough for some diseases.

I look at your experience and cannot imagine what you went through.

I'm actually quite offended that anyone would suggest that potentially only children who have a poor diet or home environment get serious illnesses...:no:

ApprenticeMomma, I only hope (and truly do) that you are never in the position where your child gets a serious illness and others question your methods of raising and looking after them. Personally, I believe this to be an extremely hurtful subject. I lost two of my cousins, one at only a few weeks old, and one at 8 years old. They were brought up in a loving environment with fresh homecooked food by a doting mother. To even suggest that their environment was the reason they contracted serious illness is absolutely beyond my comprehension.

Other mods, feel free to edit this but I need at least to post it.:(

[jessgray]

:hugs: hugs for you katrina.
thats so sad :(

[cait]

Cait did you used to have a different user name? me thinks I suddenly know who you are.....

Sorry Coops, I have always had this username - I am just terribly slack and don't often get to post on BH. Am a habitual lurker ;)

[xkwzit]

Also to answer the OP:

I am wondering if vaxers feel that contracting a disease is simply a random act of god, there is nothing apart from vaxing which will help to prevent a person getting the disease.


No, I do not think that there is nothing else to do apart from vaxxing. I do not think that vaccination is some magic silver bullet that we keep my children healthy despite anything else.

I consider immunisation to be part of an overall strategy that includes healthy food, low stress, enough rest, etc. Immunisation is only for a very small number of diseases, there are many other things that could impair our health and we have to manage all of these.

I am also mildly offended that you feel the need to ask. It implies vaxxers are unaware of or do not care about these additional strategies. Please don't imply that we are ignorant or uncaring.

[melfunction]

I am offended also, so I chose not to answer the question.

[reAllytee]

LOL TL, If you read back you will see that most of us did answer the OP in our initial posts, we just keep on coming back and :ecomcity: because some of us (not me of course :rolleyes: ) just cant keep our big noses out of things.

I did answer it didnt i :confused:
*runs back & checks*
Oh phew yep i did its in there somewhere :p

[AppleBlossym]

<unneccesary comment removed by moderator>

I ask you : Why are you reading this if your soooo offended?

As a non vaxxer I too have these questions pass through me ol brain sometimes, so I have been reading with interest and find no offence at all.

I'm sick of this non vaxxer against vaxxer, and I can see we both fight a losing battle.

I have just decided to think...we are all different and what a boring world it would be if we were all the same.

I have been called a child abuser (on this forum) for not vaxxing. And that offended me:mad:.

<text removed by moderator>

[Puk]

I think the original question has been answered now. We don't need yet another vax vs non-vax debate. Thank you to those who posted useful responses.