View Full Version : Please help! So confused about day sleeps.
Hi guys,
PLEASE HELP! I am totally lost and confused about how to run my 3 month old BF bub's daytime sleeps!! I am feeling really sad and worried about it at the moment because he shows "tired signs" pretty much ALL day. (Rubbing eyes, yawning, "thunderbird" jerky hand movements). Poor little bubba. :(
He sleeps really well at night time - he is wrapped, put in cot and out like a light, only one wake overnight usually. :yelclap:But during the day he fights and fights and fights sleeping and I don't know how to get him into a good routine/habit. I was told day sleeps need to be obviously different to night sleeps so at the moment I've been trying all sorts of things: bouncer, swing, patting him to soothe, etc. Nothing seems to work consistently. Today I tried putting him in his cot for his first nap of day but he just cried and cried.
:gloomy:
1) For day sleeps, should I put him in his cot also? I was worried then he wouldn't distinguish his long "night sleep" so easily?
2) He is wrapped for the night time sleep - should I wrap him for naps also? Same worry as above, messing up the night sleep!
3) How often and how long should a 3 month old baby be napping? Is it roughly once between each breastfeed?
Please help!!
x Em
If he dosnt want to sleep during the day and is happy i would just go with it. (my cousin - from a newborn did not sleep during the day. and slept threw out the night with out ever having a night feed. I knowthat breaks all the rules but thats what the routein he put him self into)
1) For day sleeps, should I put him in his cot also? I was worried then he wouldn't distinguish his long "night sleep" so easily?
sorry i have no idea what you should do... ive had my bub sleep on the lounge during the day, in my bed, in the bassinet and in her room in the cot lol i duno i like to mix things up a bit (not for any reason apart from lazyness) but mixing it up never screwed up Georginas night sleep.
2) He is wrapped for the night time sleep - should I wrap him for naps also? Same worry as above, messing up the night sleep!
Ive finished wrapping Georgina now THANKGOD but when i was i wrapped her for every sleep other wise she wouldnt sleep. Once i stoped wrapping her she wouldnt sleep unless she was put on her tummy. When i know isnt reccomended but thats what she likes and works for her.
3) How often and how long should a 3 month old baby be napping? Is it roughly once between each breastfeed?
my baby has never been in any real routein shes 5 months now.
some days she has naps for up to 3 hours
some days she will have a nap at 4 till 6 and then i give her a bottle and put her to bed and she will still slept threw the night and wake around 6ish
I wouldnt stress about it. If he really needs a sleep he will.
shockinamillion
22-12-2009, 10:54
We still wrap our 7 month olds for day naps. They nap in the portacot. I do not pick them up as soon as they fuss, I try and settle them a few times first.
I think the general rule of thumb for a 3mo is 2 long day sleeps of 1.5-2.5 hours and one afternoon catnap of 30-60mins. Most routine books I have say a 1.5-2 hour up time between sleeps for a 3-6 month old.
If they catnap all day, (30-50min sleeps) they can get overtired. Its difficult to break a catnapping habit tho. I'd say doing the same sleep routine for day and night will help so wrap and dummy and cot if thats your routine. Bubs still know the difference between day and night because day time sleeps are shorter and broken up with playing. Plus you can never make the nursery as dark during the day as it gets at night time.
Lily of the Nile
22-12-2009, 11:51
Ds naps after every bottle, but it's not for long maybe 30min and on rare occasions one of those naps will be for a couple of hours. I'm the same as pp he kinda sleeps anywhere during the day, I have trouble getting him to sleep in his cot (he's fine all night though) mainly cause he has a last bit of his bottle before nap which puts him to sleep so I don't move him and just make it safe where he is.
I honestly don't know the 'rules' and I tend to do whatever works, if he's sleeping well at night and I couldn't get him to sleep in his cot in the day but know he's tired, I would go for a drive, take him shopping or for a walk, and let him sleep in the pram, put him in a sling, whatever works to let him know and get used to napping in the day even if they're short, it might work in getting a routine up and running? I personally don't do what I do at night with him. We have a night routine which is bath, bottle, bed and I also put him in his grobag only at night and there's no real play at night. I don't want to bring any of those elements in the day and confuse him, for me as long as he sleeps through the night I'm happy for him to make his own routine in the day, but ofcourse if he's tired and can't sleep, I'll help him out in whatever way I can, I don't think I can spoil him :)
Here's what one of my sleep books says for sleep requirements:
3 mths: 9-10hrs night + 5-6hrs day = 15hrs total
6 mths: 10hrs night + 4hrs day = 14 hrs total
9 mths: 11hrs night + 3hrs day = 14 hrs total
That being said, at 3mths my DD was still catnapping continuously during the day. It wasn't until 6mths that she lengthened her day sleeps.
You should try giving bubs the same sleep cues every time you put him down, ie do the same during the day as you do at night.
M boy was exactly the same but without the good night sleeping! Actually he was pretty good at night but still woke 2-3 times.
As for the day sleeps, I would say just get bub to sleep where ever you can, don't worry about distinguishing with night sleep.
My baby basically doesn't need that much sleep. The recommendations are just that - not every baby needs that much. He does 10-11 hours overnight and b/w 2 and 3 during the day at 10 mths, and this is the most he has ever slept. He is sleeping alot more now than when he was 3 mths.
BUT, he was also tired all the time and a chronic catnapper during the day. I had him on 4 sleeps a day until well after 4 mths - he would only do 40 mins at a time and this was how I got him through the day. It was horrible because every sleep was a battle but he just would not sleep for 1.5 - 2hrs.
I would say just forget the notion that babies should sleep for 2 hrs at a time, F never has until recently.
We found that rocking him to sleep in his pram and then rocking the pram to try and resettle him helped a lot and never messed with his night sleep and creating strong "its time for sleeping" routine for day and night helped. At around 6 mths his day sleep naturally started stretching.
Good luck, it is hell i know
Betty Boop
22-12-2009, 13:51
Hi:wave:
This is what we do - we wrap day and night, her wrap is a sleep cue. And I would use a cot, they tend to get into a deeper sleep than a pram/bouncer ect.
From birth we have made the day/night difference very obvious - day time is noisier, lots more feeds (every 3-4hrs), play time after feeds, then back to bed.
Night times are shower, massage, feed with lights down then bed(7pm) - bub tends to wake between 4-5.50am for night feed which we do quietly in the dark in my bed then straight back to cot - I wake her at 8-8.30am to start the day.
So my girl is 3 months and this is her day:
Wake at 8am
Feed
play till 9.30
wrap and bed
wake at 11.30-12 (if not already)
feed
play till 1pm (ish)
wrap and bed
wake at 3pm (if not already)
feed
play till 4.30pm
Nap for 1 hr
feed
play
shower
massage
feed
bed
1 more feed early morning
This is just what we do - we have done similar with all 4 of our kids and works really well for us.
I dont know about getting your bub to sleep, - I would be putting in cot and leaving to give a chance to get himself to sleep, then going in calmly and patting, leaving again ect.....but alot of people dont like doing this (controlled crying/comforting).
Good luck:)
My 7 month old DD goes to bed after being awake every 1.5 hours. She will usually be down for 2 hours at a time, if not longer. I find the better she sleeps during the day, the better she sleeps at night.
Both of my kids need lots of sleep. My nearly 2.5 year old DS sleeps at least 13 hours overnight AND has a day sleep of 2-3 hours every day.
They are all so very different.
I found if I tried to wait for DD's tired signs, she was already overtired, and it was a huge struggle getting her to sleep.
Every bub is different. We keep the same routine for night time and naps but at night he always winds down with a bath and a massage, story and song with his bottle so it's a little different, I suppose. It took a while for us to get good napping happening. At 3 months, his naps were still only 40 mins long and sometimes I couldn't get him to go down at all! He just decided at around months to become an amazing napper and now goes down without any problem and has 2 1 - 1 1/2 hour naps. Hopefully in a few months your DS will do that too. Just stick with the routine you WANT him to follow (whatever works for you) and it might click for him one day as it did for us. Remember, you can't MAKE him sleep, you can only help him to be comfortable and wind down and the rest is up to him :)
springbubba
24-12-2009, 09:59
I agree, every baby is different.
I have just finished Baby Bliss and like the relaxed routine and suggestions in that book.
Just persevere with the routine you want and it may just fall into place.
[QUOTE=laura20;4329124]If he dosnt want to sleep during the day and is happy i would just go with it. QUOTE]
I disagree with this as the OP clearly states that her bub is rubbing his eyes and yawning and needing sleep.
All bubs need 2-3 sleeps during the day (this drops as they get older) and they may be from 45min/1 hour to 2 hours at a time.
A rule of thumb is 'up/awake time' for no longer than 1 1/2 to 2 hours at a time (at this age) (eg: Awake at 7am, (play), feed, play, sleep at 8.30-9am)
Yes you can wrap him day and night.
I would suggest that you contact a sleep school to offer help with day sleeps. In Melbourne we have tweedle.
We have the same problem! Although DS isn't that great at night either! He is 16 weeks and sometimes will only sleep 15 minutes, usually about 30 minutes and he is impossible to resettle once he is awake. He gets very tired and cranky too but you can't get him back to sleep. He'd be lucky to sleep 2 hours during the day all up.
I wrap him day and night, the room is light enough for him to know the difference between day and night. I hope his sleep improves as he gets older because he is one cranky little boy at the moment!
And I have been to a mother/baby unit regarding his sleep and they said he was hard to settle and impossible to resettle too. Good luck - it is a pain when they don't sleep.
If he really needs a sleep he will.
I would really beg to differ on this! My baby at 3 months would stay up all day unless I basically 'forced' him to sleep. And he would be screaming and exhausted from about 11 in the morning.
Some babies do not have their own off switch and need their mummas to find it for them. These are normally babies who are described as 'alert' - a euphemism for wired!! No baby should be awake from 6 in the morning until falling into an exhausted sleep at around 4pm which is what F was doing at this age without super intensive intervention from me.
I alse recommend Babybliss and agree with PP - you cant force them to close their eyes, but you can try and create an optimal sleep environment.
springbubba
24-12-2009, 17:42
Before I read Baby Bliss I was tearing my hair out as my bub (9 weeks) wasn't sleep through the day at all and would fight sleep all day (I also didn't realise that newborns shouldn't be awake for longer than an hour before reading the book).
She is now sleeping really well in her cot through the day and has managed to put herself to sleep a couple of times.
When I finish her feed I burp her, have a little quiet chat, wrap her and tell her it is time to sleep, generally 1 to 1.5 hours after she has woken up. I keep her room darkish, put her in the cot and pat her and shhhh her for a minute or 2 then walk out (even if she is awake). If she cries I go back in and pat and sshhh her and will pick her up to rock and pat only if she is still crying hysterically otherwise leave the room again after a minute or two (even if she is awake). I keep doing this until she is asleep. You need to stick with it though, I spent the first day going in constantly until I was ready to feed her again (2-3 hours). It has definitely worked as now I don't have to go in more than twice to resettle.
Hope this helps
Get a sling, bub will feed, look around and sleep to bubs own timetable, you don't even really need to worry about it to be honest, you just get on with your day, as bub gets on with his! :)
UmmInayah
26-12-2009, 12:44
I would really beg to differ on this! My baby at 3 months would stay up all day unless I basically 'forced' him to sleep. And he would be screaming and exhausted from about 11 in the morning.
Some babies do not have their own off switch and need their mummas to find it for them. These are normally babies who are described as 'alert' - a euphemism for wired!! No baby should be awake from 6 in the morning until falling into an exhausted sleep at around 4pm which is what F was doing at this age without super intensive intervention from me.
I alse recommend Babybliss and agree with PP - you cant force them to close their eyes, but you can try and create an optimal sleep environment.
i also disagree that babies will sleep when they need it.
i tried everything with my dd but she would not sleep during the day. at night she would scream and cry for 3 hours straight and fall asleep exhausted. she slept well at night because she was just so tired. i had to force her to sleep. she could never sleep on her own.
because she never slept on her own, for the first 5 months of her life (even though i wore her, and carried her everywhere to get on with my day trying to get her to sleep which she didn't), she did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. and i mean nothing. she would lie there and stare at nothing. people told me there was nothing wrong with her, she would sleep when she was tired, but she didn't know HOW to sleep. through no fault of my own, or even hers, it was just something she couldn't do. so i encouraged sleep.
i stuck to a schedule.. a very relaxed one. i would feed her for 2 hours before bed every night and would feed her for 1 hour to get her to nap. the times feeding times got shorter and shorter eventually. she finally was starting to do things.. she finally smiled, she finally batted toys and within a month she was crawling. so obviously lack of sleep was affecting her mental abilities!
she is now 2.5 and can only go to sleep being patted or rocked. and it still takes us 2 hours to get her to sleep at night and 1 hour for naps. (and yeah, i've tried all the overtired not tired enough food things etc)
go with your gut. if you know your baby is not getting enough sleep, do whatever it takes to get them to. if a sling or carrier works for you, even better! it's hard not to get stressed, but you also have to remain calm. my baby responded well to my voice, i read her books before bed as well.. comfy clothes even for naps etc.
sleep is so important for children.
As a general rule (emphasis on general) babies will have a feed, play, sleep pattern. DS could be very challenging to get to sleep at that age (and still now! :( ). He wouldn't show tired signs either, far too interested in what was going on around him. Anyway, for day sleeps I still wrapped him and rocked him to sleep (or bounced him on a swiss ball). I have a black out blind in his room which makes the room dim. There were no mobiles over his cot either, as little visual stimulation as possible. I also found that putting a shirt that I had sweated in next to his head very effective, he would turn to the shirt and fall asleep (possibly overcome by the fumes but heh, it worked :p )
A sling would be another option or alternatively maybe a swing or rocked that you can pop bubs in and they can rock to sleep.
:raspberry: Well I dont really care if any of you dont agree with my post.
Ill offer my advice same as any of you and EmyN and who ever can take what ever she likes.
any waysssssssss :laughing:
my aunty went to sleep school because she was worried about her bub who did not sleep during the day and slept a full 12 hours at night.
The advice she was given was to feed him every 2 hours during the day to make up for the night feeds he would normally have. and since he was never ever given a night feed dont start giving him one.
And thats what she did and what worked for her.
People are so harsh I was reading a post i made a few months ago when i was a new mum and I asked a question
"Do you have to put a singlet on your baby"
the answer I got from one member was
"Yes you have to or your baby will die."
Well my only real advice that i hope nobody disagrees with is
Dont stress!
:thumbsup:
Hey Emi, just some :hugs:becasue I know how you feel. I've been blessed this time around with a DD who loves to sleep but my DS now nearly 3 was the same as yours as a baby. DH would come home from work and find me in tears over the fact that I couldn't get my exhausted little guy to have a rest.
I started out trying to do all the 'right' things but when it comes to it you just do whatever you need to do to help him to sleep. I ended up of having a routine of taking him for a walk in the pram after our brekky and he'd usually succumb by the time we got back home but if not I'd keep pushing the pram up and down the hallway. The bonus is the exercise and fresh air are good for your mood too. I was lucky in that once I finally got him to sleep he'd usually stay that way for a couple of hours. Next nap I'd often resort to the pram again but would still take up to 45mins for him to fall asleep and I remember posting to this same forum as I jiggled the pram back and forth wondering whether it was normal for sleep to be this hard! Eventually ended up feeding him to sleep for most naps and bedtime - not what I planned to do but saved my sanity and brought us a more peaceful day.
Also wanted to say not to blame yourself at all for his trouble sleeping, some babies really do fight sleep more than others. I'm lucky DD is good so far because DS still fights his sleep - until recently he was taking 2 hours to get down of an evening and that only changed because his afternoon nap is gone so come bedtime he is absolutely exhausted!
As for the distinguishing between day and night sleeps - I wouldn't worry about that until he actually is sleeping well in the daytime and even then not unless he seems to have days and nights mixed up. And with the tired signs, my DS also seemed to exhibit them all the time. I found we had some improvement when I stopped assuming he hadn't been awake long enough to put back to bed and instead would try and settle him straight after his feed skipping the 'play'. This let him catch up on the sleep he needed instead of letting him become even more tired and even harder to settle.
Good luck
Thankyou so much everyone for your replies!
Sorry it's been a while since I posted, have been visiting the in-laws in Sydney - while there I decided to try wrapping him as soon as he showed tired signs and putting him in cot. I couldn't believe how well it worked so quickly!!! He suddenly started sleeping through the day without any hassle, sometimes up to an hour or two 3-4 times a day! And it certainly didn't affect his night sleep - in fact he slept through the night for the first time on Xmas Eve! :smiliedance:
He would only be up for 1.5 hours before I had to put him to bed again and it felt a bit "wrong" for him to be sleeping that much but I guess he just needs that much sleep! In fact sometimes when he couldn't resettle after the first 45 minute nap he'd be up for a little and then went for another 45 minute catnap before the next feed came around!
Poor little bugger wasn't getting anywhere near that before when I was avoiding the cot/wrapping/dark during the day - Mother guilt!
Now I am back in Queensland I've been doing the same thing but it hasn't been working quite so well the last few days - he's been fighting the day sleeps again and having trouble staying asleep longer than 45 mins and is continually tired again (poor little bugger). I think it's because of the heat. I'm going to try using the aircon more (screw the electricity bill! Hehehe).
I just wanted to let everyone know how I was going because you were all so helpful and others may want to know what I did and how it went.
x Em
CherishS2
14-01-2010, 17:15
I was having a lot of trouble getting my 3 mth old to sleep too- i would try to get her to sleep for 2 naps a day which could take up to an hour of rocking, patting, crying, swing, pram, anything! lol. When i got her to sleep though she would sleep 2-3hrs each nap & 10 hours straight at night. After speaking with a sleep consultant we worked out that she was awake for TOO long between sleeps which was making her overtired & impossible to get to sleep. She recommends that a 3mth old should be awake for only 1.5-2hrs before going back down for a nap. I thought my DD1 was just an exception coz she would be awake for 6hrs straight sometimes!!
But after following the feed, play, sleep pattern she now is only awake for around 1.5 hours before i see the first tired signs (you have to watch carefully & put to sleep within a couple of minutes of seeing it). And now i can get her to sleep in about 15min after that- much less stress! She now has 3 x 1.5hr naps during the day & a 30-45min nap about 6.30pm to carry her through till sleep at 9pm. It means i have to wake her up after each nap & wake her up the same time every morning but it's a lot happier for both of us.
I thought she couln't possibly be ready to sleep again after 1.5hrs but she was!
For a 3 month old she recommends 15 hrs sleep a day (10hr night and 5hrs a day broken into 3-4 naps).
Good luck!
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