View Full Version : Raising the legal drinking age
MummaBear03
14-12-2009, 12:38
Do you think the drinking age should be raised to 21? Why? Why not?
It was only dropped to 18 because so many people didn't think it made sense to send kids off to war at 18 when they weren't even old enough to drink or vote yet, so instead of raising the age at which a person could be on the front line and kill people and be killed, it was decided that the drinking and voting age should be dropped to 18.
What are your thoughts on this?
Poll to follow, no "other" option just a straight yes or no this time.
It doesn't seem to work in America. I don't know why it would work here.
The bottom line is, the pubs and bars need to be more strict about RSA. And the police need to get involved more.
WorkingClassMum
14-12-2009, 12:45
YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The human brain does not finish maturing and making all it's connections until about 21+ for women and 23~25 for men. Any alcohol before then has a life long permanent effect.
I also believe that obtaining car driving licences and being legally allowed to drink both at the age of 18 is akin to storing firecrackers next to kindling.
sweetseven
14-12-2009, 12:45
I put "yes" whereas when I was younger I would've put "no". However, it should not be withdrawn from anyone that currently has that right. Therefore, I believe that it should be raised by one year every two years (so take six years to raise to 21). (The reason to make it one year every two years is so that those that just miss out aren't overly separated from their peers.)
However, I do not believe it should result in those from 18-21 being excluded for establishments like nightclubs, just that they shouldn't be able to drink alcohol whilst there.
I also think it is important to allow young people significant time to get experienced and responsible with other activities (driving, working, university, etc) before having an alcohol culture impinge on it.
Some youths will still continue to drink at family gatherings, but I would hope that (with responsible adult monitoring) it would be an occasional glass, not getting completely blotto.
WorkingClassMum
14-12-2009, 12:46
And the police need to get involved more.
The responsibility of educating kids has to happen long before police should be getting involved
I also believe that obtaining car driving licences and being legally allowed to drink both at the age of 18 is akin to storing firecrackers next to kindling.
That's why I think it's a great idea in NSW to be able to get your licence at 17. A year's worth of driving before legally allowed to drink.
The responsibility of educating kids has to happen long before police should be getting involved
Sure it does, but that's not going to fix the problem with the idiots now who get served alcohol at pubs and bars when they can't even stand up straight.
Sure it does, but that's not going to fix the problem with the idiots now who get served alcohol at pubs and bars when they can't even stand up straight.
So true:yes:.
I think it really does come down to MORE education during secondary schooling on the effects on alcohol and a massive crackdown on establishments that do not follow RSA policies.
I dont know that changing the legal age to drink will have the desired impact. As Lozzaaa stated before, it doesnt seem to work in rthe US, why would it here.
Sure it does, but that's not going to fix the problem with the idiots now who get served alcohol at pubs and bars when they can't even stand up straight.
Slightly bias but they're involved enough as they can be. They just don't have the resources. Also it's incredibly dangerous for police to be entering busy night clubs as they aren't able to use any weapons. I'm glad at the moment it's not police responsibility to be patroling night clubs because it would scare the you know what out of me thinking about my husband going in to those situations. They do have special operations within the police who do it but police are busy enough.
As for the drinking age, no I don't think it should be raised.
Ardentwhispers
14-12-2009, 13:03
It doesn't seem to work in America. I don't know why it would work here.
The bottom line is, the pubs and bars need to be more strict about RSA. And the police need to get involved more.
What about it doesn't work?
I think ideally it would be a good idea..but in practice perhaps not so much. It would take a long, long time for any positive effects to be seen, I think.
pinkishbunny
14-12-2009, 13:13
No it should be left at 18! Wouldn't make the slightest difference...
onionskin
14-12-2009, 13:16
I didn't pick, I am an other :rolleyes:
If the drinking age was raised then as long as voting, driving and being able to serve in the armed forces was also raised, then I would agree.
Sorry I know you didn't want any others.
I think it should be raised...18 today is nothing like 18 20 years ago...
Dreambeliever
14-12-2009, 13:46
I dont think raising the age is going to make much difference. Most kids start drinking at 14 or younger...a few more years of it being illegal isnt really going to change things.
If you want responsible drinkers then maybe we should think about our behaviour as parents at home. Like not asking your children to get daddy a beer out of the fridge. and not letting your primary school child have sips of alcohol from your cup. And not getting wasted at the family BBQ's. Aussie kids are learning from a very young age that drinking excessive amounts of alcohol is fun and normal.
Slightly bias but they're involved enough as they can be. They just don't have the resources. Also it's incredibly dangerous for police to be entering busy night clubs as they aren't able to use any weapons. I'm glad at the moment it's not police responsibility to be patroling night clubs because it would scare the you know what out of me thinking about my husband going in to those situations. They do have special operations within the police who do it but police are busy enough.
As for the drinking age, no I don't think it should be raised.
I feel for the police, I know they have so much on their plate and there is only so much they can do. my dad was a cop, he's retired now and I know how hard he wprked. If there were more police employed then it would be easier to control. In NSW, the closest police station to me has just been closed :rolleyes: and I know of so many others that have closed as well.
In NSW over the weekend, there was a blitz on excessive drinking, resulting in over 600 arrests. I know they can't do that all the time but it worked. http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/operation-unite-sends-a-strong-message-20091213-kpxf.html
And this is why I say that pubs, clubs and bars need to be more strict with RSA laws:
Plain clothes police found close to 60 breaches of the liquor laws over the weekend.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/13/2770055.htm?section=justin
I have seen with my own eyes, a man so drunk standing AT the bar, spewed and then got served a shot :eek: :dizzy:
What about it doesn't work?
People still drink underage over there. If they brought it in here, it would make MORE underage people go out and drink IMO.
Mrs Nietzsche
14-12-2009, 17:36
op, it would have been better to raise the age that you could go to war to 21
MummaBear03
14-12-2009, 17:51
op, it would have been better to raise the age that you could go to war to 21
I agree, and that's what I think should have happened in the first place. But we can't change that now. However I'd like to see it changed back. Bringing it in over a 6 year period sounds like a good idea too. Phase it in again.
I hate how people say "it won't stop underage drinking" it's almost like condoning it, like it would be ok to drop the age to 14 if we're going to base it on underage drinking.
missie_mack
14-12-2009, 17:52
I don't think it will remove any of the problems it would seem you think it will. Several countries have this (I know it was the case when I was in Ireland) and it didn't reduce the alcohol problem.
However I would like to see a specific age used to indicate when a person becomes an adult. We may say currently it is 18 however a parent is legally responsible for their child if they are unemployed until they are 25 and you pay for an adult ticket for anyone over the age of 14 to go to the movies just to confuse everyone.
The countries which have the least amount of issues (but of course are not without them) are the ones where alcohol is introduced as a mealtime activitiy. In Victoria you can drink from the time you are 16 as long as you are having a meal. It would be interesting to see a comparison with this set up to other states.
Incidently, alcohol laws are a state function where as war service is a federal function so completely independent of each other (well at least currently).
Little-Pink-Hen
14-12-2009, 17:57
I clicked no
I think that if it wad inceased then there
would be more problem drinkers,
kids that I knew binged and got drunck under 18 once they were leagle age not so fun anymore and becomes more available the kids I knew became more sensible iykwim
I thinking raising to 21 will only mean underage drinking will increase to 21.
It doesn't that well in the states
and you'll still be able to marry at 18, vote and enlist in the army. Imagine not being able to share in the toast at your own wedding? I noticed a lot of hub hubbers were married before 21 ;)
I think the driving age should increase to 19-20 and still able to get Ls at 16 so kids have 3 -4 yrs practice
I feel for the police, I know they have so much on their plate and there is only so much they can do. my dad was a cop, he's retired now and I know how hard he wprked. If there were more police employed then it would be easier to control. In NSW, the closest police station to me has just been closed :rolleyes: and I know of so many others that have closed as well.
Agree 100% there isn't enough cops, especially in QLD, the budget here is ridiculous. Unfortunately the budget in QLD is so tight that there isn't always enough cars, not enough mag lights per cop, you're not supplied needle proof gloves, they cost you almost $200 and they're ordered from overseas so they take forever, stab vests not supplied, huge restrictions on how you use a weapon so most of the time cops are too afraid to use any force, they're supplied the basic equipment and bare minimum police per station. My husbands station is full of asbestos :no:.
It's the government that needs to fix the problem before the police can do anything. Increase the budget=more police=safer place to live. As I said I'm quite passionate about it and a tad bias because I see what they go through and experienced first hand. DH thinks lowering the drinking age would probably quite down the city/valley but only short term, because the same thing will happen when they turn 21. But also street parties will be on the rise and there will be more problems in suburbia where it's even more dangerous for them as there isn't ready available ambulance, police and so on.
It's catch 22 really, I personally think if they;re going to decrease the age of legal alcohol they need to do the same with everything. Marriage, voting, fighting in front line, entering contracts i.e buying houses and cars and all the rest. I don't want to see any of that happen but I think its a bit much to expect an adult whos married, has children etc can't drink. I was all that before I turned 21. Sure I wasn't drinking because I was pregnant and breastfeeding but you get my point... I hope
singlemumma82
14-12-2009, 20:25
I really dont think it would matter what age they made it, if people want to drink, they will.
I go out to bars and clubs quite often (well every second weekend when DD is at her dads) and the number of under age kids there is so sad, and I know for a fact they are underage as one was my best friends DD and her mates and another my mates GF, they have all told me how easy it is to get fake ID these days, so really, upping the age will just make this more common.
When I was a teenager fake ID was unheard of, it was something you heard of but never knew anyone with, it was just in the movies, now it is as easy to get as a bottle of coke from what I have been told (mates DD is also a good friend of mine and told me all about it).
The main census here needs to be placed on places serving liquor, insert chips into ID which must be scanned to obtain alcohol and cigarettes and also for entry into these premises.
It really is a sad world, kids are no longer happy being kids :( I dread DD growing up.
Mmmmmm......not gonna work, sorry.
And plus, I'm quite happy that I was able to purchase alcohol when I was younger. Sorry, I don't see why I can't relax with a glass of wine after a hard day.
Ardentwhispers
14-12-2009, 23:54
People still drink underage over there. If they brought it in here, it would make MORE underage people go out and drink IMO.
Nowhere near the rate they do here. Also, I'm not sure on statistics, but I would bargain younger kids are drinking more often at larger rates here than there as well. There's more alcoholism in Aus as well, which may or may not have anything to do with the drinking age..
You'll always have people drinking underage, the difference is saying it's okay to do so or not. There's no real way to "police" drinking once the person is legally allowed to drink. Well, in theory there is...but not in practice, so I don't see why "they'll drink anyway" is a reason not to raise it, kwim?
bronny-jane
15-12-2009, 09:10
i think its a great idea.. when i go out, 18 seems so young, and a little too stupid iykwim... they cant handle their drinks well, and act silly...
ETA... you notice it more as you get older iykwim.. i thought i was fine, but looking back i was a complete d!ck
Nowhere near the rate they do here. Also, I'm not sure on statistics, but I would bargain younger kids are drinking more often at larger rates here than there as well. There's more alcoholism in Aus as well, which may or may not have anything to do with the drinking age..
You'll always have people drinking underage, the difference is saying it's okay to do so or not. There's no real way to "police" drinking once the person is legally allowed to drink. Well, in theory there is...but not in practice, so I don't see why "they'll drink anyway" is a reason not to raise it, kwim?
But in the USA, the drinking age is accepted as 21. Here, it wouldn't be. People will find a way to drink.
This in no way means I am condoning it. I just don't think raising the drinking age is the answer.
Alcoholism may or may not have something to do with this. IMO, it doesn't.
EmPowering
15-12-2009, 09:46
nope not realllyyy:no::no: it will just make teenagers drink illegally and by the time they get to 21 they will probably have felt like they have had all there fun already:yes:
im not saying drinking underage is a good thing but i just dont think if it was introduced into australia that people would take it very serious as they would just find new ways to get alcohol
would this obviously mean night clubs would be put up to 21 +?
RoarsomeMum
15-12-2009, 10:03
Yes. Raise it.. But raise it to 25 or 30.. or ban it altogether.. and 0 Blood alcohol level for ALL drivers would be nice..
We just constantly seem to have excuses as a nation for glorifying alcohol.. (and the abuse of it) It's a national pass time.. and all the Add's, education, and laws in effect seem to have accomplished bugger all.. It annoys me.
A Party of Five
15-12-2009, 10:06
I still think the biggest problem with alcohol is societies acceptance of drinking it. I don't think prohibition is a good thing, but it is seen as 'unAustralian' not to sink p i s s!
I remember seeing reseach (and have observed) about how parents who drink around their children results in those children having significantly higher probablities of drinking underage and having more alcoholic issues. Perhaps some responsibility by so-called adults could be more benefical than raising the age limit.
Also I think making all drugs (including alcohol in drugs) legal and then placing them in a better classification system would better highlight the problems and dangers of alcohol, imagine alchol being given the same level of classification as drugs that we have as illegal now (considering that alcohol related deaths are considerable higher than all illegal drug deaths and that marijuana deaths are near zero) Alcohol could have a higher level of harm classification than atm illegal drugs!
Yes, raise the legal drinking age to 21. I really don't like how teens can get a license to drive at 17, then they can go drinking at 18..it's all too much too soon.
mm I don't think it will work.
in australia the age you become an adult (legally, maybe not emotionally) is 18. it isn't 21.
I remember when i first started uni this was a big issue because a poli wanted to raise the age to 24.
personally I don't believe it is about the legal drinking age, I just think we really really need to change the way we as a society view and treat alcohol.
as a teenager I used to be a big binge drinker. I would black out and do a lot of stupid things.
I can not explain why, except I know I come from a family of drinkers who see alcohol as a recreational sport lol.. it's not really funny so I shouldnt put the LOL in there actually.
my girlfriends and I went to an all girl school and our favourite hobby was planning our weekends, organising how we would get the alcohol, and then meeting up with the boys. this was when i was about 14-15. I suspect I did myself some damage and I made some big mistakes.
we need to change the way alcohol is viewed. I don't know how. maybe we need to stop advertising beer and vodka the way we do. we need to stop glamorizing it.
these days, at 21 I can have a few drinks without being a moron.. I love having some wine on the weekend. I think my partner needs to cut back on drinking, because he drinks every day, although he doesn't drink to get drunk anymore which is good. however I don't think it's because we are in our twenties. it's because we view ourselves as adults now, because we are parents. I have friends who are parents at 17 and 18 and they are the same as us. they don't find it fun to go out and get smashed every weekend. they have responsibility. it has a lot to do with the fact that young people in Australia are just "children" for a long time. they called it "prolonged adolescence" in an article I was reading. im not saying that once you have children you should be able to drink by the way hahaha.. im just saying I think young people are especially immature here compared to other countries.. it's not like the golden age of maturity is 18 or 21 or 24
you can't say someone will or won't be ready for drinking at a particular age. in this country, I don't know if people in their 30's are ready for alcohol, because we ALL know plenty of older people who drink to excess too.
prohibition has never ever worked. it just doesn't. it creates other problems which are much more damaging to society. that is how we decide what drugs are legal or illegal. policy maker type people look at the the health risks and other associated problems and then weigh that up with the risks to society of the drug becoming illegal, and the lengths people will go to for that drug.
I think unfortunately in the future, everything will be geared around the new magic age of 24. a lot of policy is starting to move that way. I doubt it will make a difference to anything.
i think we are a big nation of binge drinkers and that isn't changing any time soon.
Ardentwhispers
15-12-2009, 12:15
But in the USA, the drinking age is accepted as 21. Here, it wouldn't be. People will find a way to drink.
I agree, which is why I said in my previous post that I think it's a good idea in theory, but in reality it would take a long, long time to see any changes.
Yes. Raise it.. But raise it to 25 or 30.. or ban it altogether.. and 0 Blood alcohol level for ALL drivers would be nice..
We just constantly seem to have excuses as a nation for glorifying alcohol.. (and the abuse of it) It's a national pass time.. and all the Add's, education, and laws in effect seem to have accomplished bugger all.. It annoys me.
:iagree:
BOSS302WMOM
16-12-2009, 11:41
I like the idea of a ZERO level for ALL drivers.
Unsure about the drinking age in general. I do not drink so cant judge whether it would work or not.
That's why I think it's a great idea in NSW to be able to get your licence at 17. A year's worth of driving before legally allowed to drink.
it's 17 in qld too. you can get your learner's at 16 and have to have that for a year then ps at 17. open license (or as my nsw born partner calls it, blacks) after 3 years.
Deserama
17-12-2009, 08:45
Yes change it to 21 but then they'd have to change the 'war' age to 21 also...and the age to vote. If they are not responsible enough at 18 to drink responsibly then they're not old enough to go to war or vote either.
WorkingClassMum
17-12-2009, 08:55
I get so annoyed at the hoary chestnut constantly thrown into debates that kids will drink anyhow so don't change the laws
Following that theory, let's scrap the driving age and the speed limits, 'cos people are going to drink drive and speed.
If it's worked lowering the speed limits in certain areas, it's working with some of the new harsher restrictions on L's and P's, then stronger drinking laws - even if they only save a handful of people - are worth it. Many people once scoffed at seatbelts in cars too
It might just be your life or your child's life that was saved...
I get so annoyed at the hoary chestnut constantly thrown into debates that kids will drink anyhow so don't change the laws...
Just because someone says that teenagers will drink anyway, doesn't mean they condone it.
Following that theory, let's scrap the driving age and the speed limits, 'cos people are going to drink drive and speed.
Autobahns in Germany are safer than other roads in Europe, yet most of an autobahn has no speed limit.
The governement needs to put higher tarrifs on alcohol, bring back the alcopop tax and maybe charge tax by alcohol volume. Cheap and nasty alcohol is the problem.
I still standby what I said, if pubs and clubs were scared of the penalties for serving drunk people, then a lot of the problems would disappear.
Why isn't there such a problem in Spain where the legal age is 16 or France where it is 18?
I get so annoyed at the hoary chestnut constantly thrown into debates that kids will drink anyhow so don't change the laws
Following that theory, let's scrap the driving age and the speed limits, 'cos people are going to drink drive and speed.
If it's worked lowering the speed limits in certain areas, it's working with some of the new harsher restrictions on L's and P's, then stronger drinking laws - even if they only save a handful of people - are worth it. Many people once scoffed at seatbelts in cars too
It might just be your life or your child's life that was saved...
:iagree: well said.
Why isn't there such a problem in Spain where the legal age is 16 or France where it is 18?
Because in Australia we are raised in a culture where alcohol is the norm and it is somewhat a 'rite of passage' that you turn 18 and all bets are off.
Teenagers today are egocentric and arrogant and have no concept of what it means to be responsible or earn a living - ask any generational expert and they will confirm. I may be terribly biased, probably because of my experience in this area through work - but to blame to Police and the pubs is ludicrous - they are busting thier asses at the moment to address this epidemic.
to blame to Police and the pubs is ludicrous - they are busting thier asses at the moment to address this epidemic.
:laughing: Please tell me where I am blaming the poilce and the pubs and clubs :confused:
If you read the whole thread, you would know that my dad was in the police (for 31 years actually) although he is retired now. No way do I blame them, don't say that I said and put words into my mouth :rolleyes:
Also if you read the whole thread and saw my links, you would see that I have posted links about how hard the police are working on a nation wide blitz last weekend.
People who go to pubs and bars etc. need to know that they won't get served more alcohol once they are drunk. Every bartender has to do RSA course, which seems to be forgotten about once they are behind the bar.
More taxes on alcoholic beverages.
Raising the drinking age will not help IMO.
Because in Australia we are raised in a culture where alcohol is the norm and it is somewhat a 'rite of passage' that you turn 18 and all bets are off.
Yes and in Spain, at 16, you can drink, and even of younger age with adult supervision, still no problems there.
delirium
17-12-2009, 10:41
No I don't think it should be raised. Teens (including myself) drink long before the 18+ rule. Simply changing it 21+ will not do a single thing. I was a couple of years into teriary study at 18, had been living out of home 2 years and was pretty mature at that age. Why should it be changed for a few d*ckheads that are probably still going to be the same at 21?
The cause of alot of our alcohol problems stem not from our legal drinking age, but how our society views and uses alcohol. It as seen as normal to get trashed every week spewing in a gutter, even the older generations can't seem to have any occasion without booze. Unfortunately it's going to be very difficult to change australia's perceptions to alcohol.
Ardentwhispers
19-12-2009, 12:07
:laughing: Please tell me where I am blaming the poilce and the pubs and clubs :confused:
If you read the whole thread, you would know that my dad was in the police (for 31 years actually) although he is retired now. No way do I blame them, don't say that I said and put words into my mouth :rolleyes:
Also if you read the whole thread and saw my links, you would see that I have posted links about how hard the police are working on a nation wide blitz last weekend.
People who go to pubs and bars etc. need to know that they won't get served more alcohol once they are drunk. Every bartender has to do RSA course, which seems to be forgotten about once they are behind the bar.
More taxes on alcoholic beverages.
Raising the drinking age will not help IMO.
I really, really disagree on the tax front. Australia taxes alcohol more than any country I have seen (may not be the highest, I haven't looked into it: does anyone know?). But, it hasn't helped, so far. Taking away the supply does not cull the demand.
It has more to do with trans-generational attitudes about alcohol IMO. Which, I think most governments are trying to target at the moment...however badly they're doing it.
I agree about pubs/clubs. I've been a bartender here and in the states, and it's ridiculous the people you can serve here. The reason the RSA is forgotten is that so many people in bar work are jumping through hoops to keep their jobs, and don't want to make waves with management. If management takes the attitude that it's okay to serve drunks, so will the staff..they have little choice if they want to keep their job. So something does need to be done higher up...I think fines are a great idea, and should be handed out more freely.
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