Why is adoption not considered by many in this country?

[MummaBear03]

First up, I would really like it if nobody said anything nasty towards those who have had a termination, that will end the same way it always does and regardless of anything, what's done is done and can't be changed no matter how forceful people are with their opinions on the matter.

I just noticed something, though, when reading and responding to the thread "If you found out you were pregnant now" and noticed that people were either saying they were happy, or would become happy after a while, or they were saying straight out they'd have an abortion. So those who were willing to cope and had the means to cope would continue the pregnancy, the ones who can't cope with another baby would terminate and it seemed to have been said without a second thought.

So what I gathered is that people are willing to terminate but not give a baby up for adoption.

I'm just wondering, from that, why people are so dead set against adoption in this country because it's something that isn't really done much.

[BigRedV]

Why should a woman carry a baby she doesn't want to?

What about when she is heavily pregnant and people are asking her questions about her baby?

I don't think people do it because it isn't an easy option, not saying that abortion is either.

My sister gave a child up for adoption at 16 years of age. It still haunts her to this day. Her son is now 30 years old and even though my sister has her name down to find her son, nothing can be done unless he wants to find her and he has made no effort in his life to try and find his birth mother.

[Janesmum123]

do you mean why do people have an abortion instead of giving birth to the baby and then giving the baby up for adoption?

[MummaBear03]

I'm not saying that people "should" do anything, I'm asking why it's just never talked about as an option. At least not on BH and I haven't known anyone IRL to have even mentioned it. When they find themselves in a situation it's a choice between keeping and raising the baby or having an abortion, it seems like adoption is just not thought of.

[shelle65]

I imagine if you went through with the pregnancy the pressure from family and friends not to give the baby up for adoption would be immense.

If you had other children - how would you explain that you are giving their brother or sister away because you don't want it? How traumatic for a child to think that Mum and Dad give away children they don't want. How would they explain it to their friends who would have seen their Mum pregnant and then there was no baby?

[Janesmum123]

Because it's easier to have an abortion. Simple.

[zenifa]

Because it's easier to have an abortion. Simple.

Also it is easy to hide your unwanted pregnancy if you terminate it.
To be publicly visible as pregnant for almost 10 months and then to have the baby, give it away and then the questions arise, you are judged regardless of how progressive you think people might be.

With a termination, you can end the pregnancy before people need to know or your showing and then no one will know that you've had it.

I support women's right to choose and I do feel for people wanting to adopt, but I can see why women would be choosing that option less now.

[gizmoduckus]

I think it would be more heartbreaking to carry the baby for 40 weeks. Feel it kick and grow inside you. Go through the whole birth, hear the baby cry once it's born and then give it away.

It would have to be the toughest choice to choose and that is why a lot of people don't even consider it.

[Maybelline]

For what i thought..there is plenty of babies world wide that need to be adopted...i guess if you can chose terminate you would , rather then add to the list of babies needing homes....

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I think it is talked about as an option all the time.

However luckily women have a more choices these days, as they used to have to either have an illegal abortion, often ending in steralisation and death or give their baby up. Both awful choices for many women.

I was asked if I wanted to place my first child for adoption, and I knew that would never ever be an option for me.:no:

I could not give carry give birth to and bond with a baby (as I have instantly once they were born) and then give them away. I could never do that.

I would choose abortion over that.

I also have terrible, very difficult pregnancies, I am sick the whole time, I put on a lot of weight, both my babies engaged early and I could barely walk for the last three months. I got migranes and heart burn, I got leg cramps, I could barely eat and I had to quit study both times as I was so unwell.

In my current situation I would not have an abortion, however I can understand why many women do it.

The loss of pay, jobs, friends, sometimes family, lack of support, judgement, stigma, illness and then the trauma of birthing a baby that you won't get to be with.

[onionskin]

For what i thought..there is plenty of babies world wide that need to be adopted...i guess if you can chose terminate you would , rather then add to the list of babies needing homes....

Very few healthy babies are adopted out in australia. That is why intracountry adoptions have become more popular.

To the OP I think it is easy to think you would be able to make the decision to adopt. When in reality society is not accepting of the method anymore than abortion. You are judged regardless.

I think unless you have been there, any opinion is really moot ;)

[blissfullybonkers]

i saw a tv show/doco on an american family who adopted out, they decided early on that they couldn't give their baby the life it deserved, and they already had one child, so i guess the mother disconected any emotional attatchment early on, and they just told the child it was 'mr + mrs jones' baby & mummy was just growing it for them, personally i could never do it, but i guess they decided that giving their baby to a childless couple who wanted nothing more than to be parents was something they could do! the whole way through it just pulled my heart strings!!
My mother was adopted and i love my grandparents so much, i couldn't imagine my life without them in it.
to answer the OP I don't really know, i can only presume that the idea of giving a total stranger the responsibility of raising your own flesh, and blood and not being able to see the baby you have grown inside you for 9months ever again just seems too hard, i know i couldn't do it... and also the options are much more readily available these days such as abortion and birth control back in the day there would of been no way a young or unmarried mother could of had these things readily available, and also im sure alot of girls would not have been given any option..just sent away, then the baby taken from them :(

[Theophania]

DP mother was adopted. She is a big believer in it and is absolutely against abortion.

I on the other hand could not go through a whole pregnancy only to give my baby away. Not to mention that if I did give my baby up for adoption I would spend my whole life thinking where is he/she now, I wonder what they are doing, I wonder if they are being taken care of properly... the list goes on. I just think it would be much harder to live with giving a baby up for adoption as opposed to abortion.

However I have been lucky enough to never have to go through either of these situations

[MumNeedsCoffee]

It does seem like the ideal better option doesn't it?
To adopt out a baby instead of terminating.

But in reality it's not that simple.
DP was adopted and his birth mother explained to me a bit of what happened.
She was sent away from her home to live with relatives and had to hide if anyone they might recognise her came over. She recalls hearing a knock on the door and running to hide under the bed but her heavily pregnant belly got in the way.
She also knows she made the right decision at the time but the baby she gave away haunted her and as soon as the laws were changed she searched for DP.

I think it's much more difficult and complicated for someone to adopt out rather than terminate.
I'm not saying either is the right or wrong choice.

But would you consider hiding away for much of your pregnancy? Giving up your family, friends, career, your life?
Let's face it, at least in the last few months it is obvious in most people you are pregnant and no baggy jumpers are going to hide it.
Or would you carry on with your life but be faced with the judgement and questions as to why you are not celebrating the arrival of a new baby in your life?
Could you give away a baby and wonder if you had done the right thing? Would the baby have been happier with you? Have they maybe gone to a family that is cruel to them? Will that child hate you and feel sorrow that their birth mother did not want to keep them?

Also the reason adoption rates in this country are much lower is because there is more support available for young mums or single mums or families in financial difficulty and definitely more accepted.

And then there are the obvious arguments against terminating.

I think either way it's a heart breaking choice, and either way you would have to tell yourself you made the right decision.

I consider myself lucky I have never had to be in that position myself to have to make the choice.

[Ana Gram]

I don't want another child. I don't want to go through another pregnancy. I don't want to go through another birth. Since the medical community refuses to believe that I don't want another one and give me permanent birth control, if I got pregnant again, for me abortion is the only option.

Things have changed in our society. Adoption was hushed up and mothers were sent away for pregnancy and birth and it was never spoken of again. That doesn't happen anymore. I wouldn't be able to go through a pregnancy in my community and around my child and family and friends and adopt it out.

[Fuchsia!]

Its easier to have an abortion. I know personally i would never adopt out. To wonder how your child was doing, if they were safe, being cared for, wondering if you would ever see them again, to carry them for 9mths and grow them and there is no way you couldn't not connect with the child and then have to hand it over. It also affects other family members as well.

There is no way i would carry a child for 9mths and then just hand it over and be expected to be happy with that decision and never think about that child again.

To also be asked all the time when you are due, and if you have aby names picked out and then have to reply that you aren't keeping it. Then after you have had teh baby all the people ask you where the baby is.

To much emotional trauma, way to much.

[Nomsie]

Also it is easy to hide your unwanted pregnancy if you terminate it.
To be publicly visible as pregnant for almost 10 months and then to have the baby, give it away and then the questions arise, you are judged regardless of how progressive you think people might be.

With a termination, you can end the pregnancy before people need to know or your showing and then no one will know that you've had it.

I support women's right to choose and I do feel for people wanting to adopt, but I can see why women would be choosing that option less now.

Definitely agree.

Most women who choose to terminate are ashamed of their pregnancy- needless to say most are unpartnered, OR are partnered but unsupported by their partner.
If they terminate, how many people will ever know they were pregnant? The dr who refers them, and the team who perform the D+C. Plus anybody they confide to. Oh, and in some lucky cases, those who are refered on for counselling also get a counsellor to talk to about it.

But if a woman in this situation were to adopt out, then the proof is out there for all to see. A pregnancy is difficult to hide, especially when we all have our jobs and things to go on with on a day to day basis.

Plus think about all the questions from strangers that come up when you are pregnant:
"Boy or girl?"
"When are you due?"
"are you excited?"
:ecomcity:
Knowing that you weren't going to keep the baby, how hard would that be emotionally for a woman?

Kudos to anyone that has ever gone through with it though. :yes:

[~Candy~]

My 2nd cousin is having a c-section tomorrow, and she is giving her baby up for adoption. It's all aranged and the adoptive parents are at the hospital with her at this very moment awaiting their new bundle :)

She left her decision too late to have an abortion.

[MumNeedsCoffee]

My 2nd cousin is having a c-section tomorrow, and she is giving her baby up for adoption. It's all aranged and the adoptive parents are at the hospital with her at this very moment awaiting their new bundle :)

She left her decision too late to have an abortion.

How lovely and exciting for the adoptive parents :) Your 2nd cousin is very brave, regardless of whether she left her decision too late or not :yelclap:

[Ardentwhispers]

That's what surrogates are for. :yes:

If I had an unwanted pregnancy..it's not just the child I don't want, it's the pregnancy as well.

I don't think adoption is a popular option anywhere, not just in Australia. Australia is just lucky enough to have a society more accepting of abortion than many other countries.

[BOSS302WMOM]

I do not want anymore plus if I were to get pregnant myDD's would be over the moon and I would not be able to give the baby up as they would want to know when the baby is coming home. DD was excited when I put on weight because I had a baby in my tummy and she waS going to have a baby... LOL

Id abort because it is easier for me plus I am selfish I just lost all my weight, I am happy with two kids and I do not want to stuff my body having more because it interferes with my disease.

If they would let me permanently be unable to have kids Id jump at it, I fell pregnant on the pill. That is when I TOOK IT RELIGIOUSLY and never forgot.

[~BEXTER~]

i think it is just to hard to carry a child, feel it kick, hear it cry then still agree to give it up.

Abortion gets rid of it before you feel the pregnancy before your stomach grows and before you hav to go through labour.

I think it would be hard to give a baby up for adoption.
That would be why most people terminate, most are not ready for a child, are not with the right person, have just had a baby, do not have the strength to go through with a pregnancy/labour then give that child away.

[BOSS302WMOM]

The other thing is work, you would have to stop work for some period well most women do anyway, that means suffering financially and then having to get your life back on track and the whole explaining your situation.

[MummaBear03]

That's what surrogates are for. :yes:

If I had an unwanted pregnancy..it's not just the child I don't want, it's the pregnancy as well.

I don't think adoption is a popular option anywhere, not just in Australia. Australia is just lucky enough to have a society more accepting of abortion than many other countries.

I think that would be fair enough if surrogacy was legal nation-wide.

[Deserama]

I think because when you carry a baby at the latter stages of pregnancy, you can't fool yourself into believing that it's NOT a baby anymore. Especially when you've bonded with it and love it deep down. It's easier to believe that it's just a blob and isn't really a 'life' or a 'baby', therefore you can't get attatched nor can you fall in love with it so termination is easier.

For some it's better to give it up before it's a 'person' in their mind than give it up later.

[Areca]

I know for me if I carried and gave birth to a baby I would not be able to hand that baby over to someone else. Even if I thought I could the fear that I'd potentially change my mind and then let down the parents waiting to adopt would stop me too.
There's also my kids to consider. DD1 and DD2 are both old enough to understand that there is a baby in my tummy....they wouldn't be able to understand why we were getting someone else to raise their sister or brother. I also don't think it would be fair on my kids to carry another baby. It's one of many reasons we aren't having anymore...I was a slow, lazy mother with no patience. I don't want to be like that again. I don't think it's fair on my kids. My third pregnancy was much harder than my first and second (although easy compared to a lot of people). I don't imagine being pregnant with a 4th would be a walk in the park.

No.3 was my surprise baby and even though I had a hard time coming to terms with the fact I was pregnant adoption/termination never entered my head. I can't say it would be the same if I fell pregnant again, but for me the options are abortion/keep the baby. I don't think I'd cope with either option well tbh which is why DH had a vasectomy so we never have to make the decision.

[SassyMummy]

You know, when deciding that I didn't want to keep the baby, it would be a rational decision, made after thought and consideration of my current situation and how having a baby would fit into that. Emotions would be pushed aside, and it would be a decision made mostly with the mind, not the heart.

Growing that baby in my belly, feeling it kick, attending all sorts of scans, hearing its heartbeat, seeing it on the screen, giving birth to it... there's no way I could ignore the emotions of that and there's no way I could go through all of that just to hand the baby over to someone else. NO WAY.

It would just be much better for me to end that pregnancy as soon as possible, before I had a chance to through caution into the wind and do something I didn't really want to do simply due to emotions and hormones.

It's very selfish really, and I'm not afraid to admit that. There are a lot of things about a pregnancy that I am not willing to go through for a baby that I do not want:

*The normal physical chances as a result of pregnancy. I can suck up feeling like sh*t for a baby that I want... I am unwilling when there is going to be no "pay off" for that at the end of it all.

*Everyone knowing I'm pregnant and having to put up with people asking me questions about it. I would want to distance myself from it, but that's pretty impossible when it's right inside you and everyone with eyes can see that you're pregnant.

*Everyone asking about the baby once it's gone.

*Me having to explain to EVERYONE I know that I do not want the baby and am putting it up for adoption, and then having to listen to their opinions about that and knowing that at least some of them will comment on it behind my back.

*Having to explain to DD that I do not want her brother/sister.

*Having to go through the birth. I've had a caesarean and never want another. To many people, that is no big deal, but I am traumatised and am unwilling to risk that for a baby I do not want. On the same token, because I am so looknig forward to having a VB, I would feel a bit sad that the moment I had that VB I would be giving birth to a baby that I did not want to keep.

They're just a few reasons why there's no way in hell I'd do it.

[Tam-I-Am]

Because women are more than just vessels to birth a child. They have lives, thoughts, feelings, emotions, dreams, ambitions - and all of that continues to go on while they're gestating a child.

There's no way to be pregnancy and to NOT experience some emotion toward the product of that pregnancy. The whole process is designed to make you fall in love, irrevocably, with your baby. It's also hard, emotionally, physically, mentally. It can be a costly process. And you still have to live a life while it goes on.

When abortion wasn't an option, and nor was being a single mother, adoption was in vogue. Now, thank goodness women have many more options (safer birth control, abortion, centrelink benefits if they decide to keep a baby etc), and therefore are no longer forced on a routine basis to act as a vessel to bring an unwanted pregnancy to fruition.

[Looshkin]

^^ Exactly.

[AM]

My elder sister adopted out her first born child. She was young, the father was younger, and she decided on adoption.

She found it incredibly hard, I don't know how she got through it to be honest.

Now, after having 3 children of my own, the whole thing haunts me, and I wish we had, as a family, been so much more supportive, and tried much harder to persuade her to keep bub. :(

(I was about 15 at the time, and had NO idea.)

:wave: Hey Olivia, I wish you were still part of our family.

Great post Tam :)

[Myztiks#1Fan]

i havent read all the replies in this thread as its quite long however i honestly know i couldnt go through with another pregnancy to only give up for adoption. i couldnt go through birthing said child and handing them over then going through all the emotional things that go with it. having also said that, i dont think i could ever forgive myself for having an abortion however it would be the best option for my family and thats all that matters.

[sweetseven]

Another poster has previously mentioned:
* The fathers consent is required for adoption.
* The fathers consent is NOT required for a termination.

PS: I'm one who would:
a) keep child, or
b) seek a known adoption

Neither a termination nor an anonymous adoption would suit me.

[kezzaskids]

My 16 yo answered this one;
If I was to fall pregnant I would either have an abortion or I would have a pregnancy,a birth and a baby. Why would I put my body through a pregnancy if i wasnt going to keep the baby? My body would crave my baby, my mind would crave my baby. I couldnt give it away and know that part of me was out there and I couldnt care for it, it would leave a hole in my soul.
Well I guess that answers that question for me.

[onionskin]

Because women are more than just vessels to birth a child. They have lives, thoughts, feelings, emotions, dreams, ambitions - and all of that continues to go on while they're gestating a child.

There's no way to be pregnancy and to NOT experience some emotion toward the product of that pregnancy. The whole process is designed to make you fall in love, irrevocably, with your baby. It's also hard, emotionally, physically, mentally. It can be a costly process. And you still have to live a life while it goes on.

When abortion wasn't an option, and nor was being a single mother, adoption was in vogue. Now, thank goodness women have many more options (safer birth control, abortion, centrelink benefits if they decide to keep a baby etc), and therefore are no longer forced on a routine basis to act as a vessel to bring an unwanted pregnancy to fruition.

:yelclap::yelclap: as usual Tam, spot on.

[Amara]

It's because it's seen as the hardest option out of termination, keeping the child or adopting it out.

I also think it's because it's all about me.

"I can't give up a baby for adoption".
"I can't go my whole life wondering where the bub is".
"I couldn't grow a bub to hand it over to a stranger".
"People would ask questions about the baby, what would I say?".
"How can I go through pregnancy & labour & just give the baby away".

It's all about what is best for "me". Not what is best for the baby.

Many babies are born that are not wanted. You only have to watch the news & read the newspapers to see what people do to unwanted children (or sometimes children with special needs) or who's lives are such a mess that they just can't cope with their kids to know that this is a fact. Yes Centelink throws money at you, but that does not mean you suddenly want that child when it's born. Most probably do love the child when born, but some don't. If you truly don't want a baby then don't have it, or adopt it, don't keep it. We have several government departments that just can't keep up with the protection of such children, that probably would've been far better off had they been given up for adoption.

If everyone thought of the child first and themselves second we would probably see adoption more common in Australia.



My 2nd cousin is having a c-section tomorrow, and she is giving her baby up for adoption. It's all aranged and the adoptive parents are at the hospital with her at this very moment awaiting their new bundle :)

She left her decision too late to have an abortion.

She is doing a wonderful thing. I hope it all goes well for her. I'm sure it will be one of the most difficult things she will ever have to face in her life.


That's what surrogates are for. :yes:

If I had an unwanted pregnancy..it's not just the child I don't want, it's the pregnancy as well.

I don't think adoption is a popular option anywhere, not just in Australia. Australia is just lucky enough to have a society more accepting of abortion than many other countries.

Surrogacy is not legal everywhere & there are huge legal implications as well.

Adoption is big business in some countries - most of which don't have the equivalent of the parenting payment. It's still common in the US to adopt your baby out as the Govt does not throw money at you for giving birth like ours does. I'm watching a show on Foxtel right now about a mum of one who is giving her 2nd bub away as she knows it's the best for her child. She can't afford it, lives with her parents & has plans for her life, so she is giving the bub up.

It's less common in countries like the UK as they get benefits somewhat like we do in Australia.

Many Asian & Eastern European countries have huge amounts of adoptions because of the lack of govt support. In those countries women tend to have an abortion or adopt the baby out as they know they can't provide for the baby.

[missie_mack]

I knew a girl in her teens (and only a couple of years younger than me at the time) who fell pregnant to a one night stand and carried the baby full term to give up for adoption. It was a very selfless act and even though I was still young at the time we all could see what a selfless act it was.

[RoarsomeMum]

Because it's easier to have an abortion. Simple.

People think it is.. they really really do.. and it is not.. - thou the procedure is pushed (IMO) more than adoption. You are set up and paid for by medicare, made to think it's nothing more than a simple operation and BAM, no more problems.. so yep, more accecable perhaps than services for adoption.. but easier.. :( It's a HUGE emotional burden to carry and just like parents who put their children up for adoption, people who terminate think of that child for the rest of their lives too.. without the bonusus of being able to make someone elses dreams come true, without the permission to mourn, without the support afterward..


I think it is talked about as an option all the time.


No.. It's not.. from personal experience I can tell you Abortion was the ONLY option raised to me by the medical profession. Adoption (or even fostering till I came of age) was not brought up.. Choices are a luxury of having decent people around to inform you that you even HAVE them.

To answer the OP I think Adoption is seen to be a tougher road.. and it is simply NOT supported well here. I remember a line from the "underage and pregnant" show. "I really wanted her to get rid of it, if she keeps it or adopts it out, her life is changed forever, if she has an abortion, her life stays the same.. I really did not want her to limit herself like that." - I think that is the majority view point.. that keeping a child/adopting a child effects the rest of your life, and abortion somehow does not.. so - with that train of thought- it seems the most logical choice for an unwanted pregnancy.

(something I think anyone who has actually HAD an abortion would argue with.. they ALL effect the rest of your life.)


And the fathers consent is not required for the MOTHER to release her child for adoption. He simply is required to sign for HIM to also release the child for adoption. (it has no bearing on the mothers ability to sign her rights away.)

[MummaBear03]

When I fell pregnant under extremely difficult circumstances, everyone I knew except my immediate family automatically assumed I would have an abortion.

When I did not have an abortion, I lost a lot of friends. I then told a few people that I was thinking of adopting the baby out, that was early on and I was undecided at the time what to do but had the whole pregnancy to decide what to do.

Either way, the baby was going to be carried by me to full term (not quite, she was earlier than expected lol) and would grow up in a loving home where it was wanted, whether that was with me or an adoptive family.

When I mentioned adoption people looked at me like I had 3 heads and backed right away. When looking for information on giving up a baby there was loads of information on abortion and where to go and how to get it free of charge or at a minimal cost but nothing on adoption.

I rang the Children by Choice number and they really pushed the abortion line too, saying "People get it done all the time, they go in their lunch break and are back in the office that afternoon, no one even knows where they were or what they did" but I couldn't help but wonder if those people were keeping it all in, not having anyone to talk to, if nobody knew where they were did they have a supportive network around them? I felt really sad at that, and thought of the number of people in my situation who would have an abortion because there is very little info on adoption and absolutely no support around for it.

I kept the child, but left the options open for a while. I was 23 and had qualification in my chosen field of work and heaps of savings. I thought it would be easy enough to return to work as soon as needed, and it was, I rang one place and asked if they had work and bam, I was employed that same day, just had to take up copies of blue card and qualifications and that was it. So it wasn't like I was at a time in my life where my options would be cut off by having a baby.

Still, I think about it even now. It's just on 7 years since her conception and it stays with me each and every day and the thoughts and feelings around being pregnant, as well as the frustration of not finding any info on adoption as it was all about abortion.

[RoarsomeMum]

it stays with me each and every day and the thoughts and feelings around being pregnant, as well as the frustration of not finding any info on adoption as it was all about abortion.

That was a WAY more eloquent way of putting down what I felt.. 18yrs ago it was all about abortion and no information on adoption either.. and I still think about it too.. even thou our choices (if I can call them that) were different.

and yes, WHY is that.. WHY is the info and support for adoption (when people even GET any) so overwhelmed by the info and support for abortion?

[bumMum]

I know a girl who had an arranged adoption. the whole thing was planned. it was very hard for everyone, because we believed it was a mistake and that with support she would be a good mother and would still be able to have the life she wanted..but we wouldn't say a thing because it wasn't our place but it went ahead. and it was very sad for her and she stopped coming to the support group...

I have kept in loose contact with her but she didn't really want to. I think she is not doing very well and it's a year later but I still hear constantly that she is very unhappy. she deleted all her friends from her life. I really hope she finds some happiness, but to me adoption is a very sad option and I don't think we can say just because someone chooses another option over adoption that it's all about 'me' and that's wrong. I mean, yes it is about 'me'.. because it is that mother who has to live with the consequences of that decision for the rest of her life, and carrying a pregnancy full term and then not having that baby with YOU, is something which the mother would have to grieve over. it would take a lot of strength. I know it may be fantastic for the family that get that baby, but there is still a lot of other issues to deal with for the birth mother.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Roaresomemum and Mummabear, my experiences were very different. i was asked if I wanted an abortion and I said no, and I was asked if I wanted to adopt out my baby and I said No.

If I'd asked I got the impression that I would have gotten the info on adoption if needed. there are clearly many epople on the adoption waiting list so i'm sure it wouldn't have been an issue.

I absolutely do not believe people are aborting because they don't feel they would have the aption to adopt out their babies.

I feel it happens because of all the reasons previously mentioned including all of the issues that can imapct on a pregnant woman and new mother.

[bumMum]

It's because it's seen as the hardest option out of termination, keeping the child or adopting it out.

I also think it's because it's all about me.

"I can't give up a baby for adoption".
"I can't go my whole life wondering where the bub is".
"I couldn't grow a bub to hand it over to a stranger".
"People would ask questions about the baby, what would I say?".
"How can I go through pregnancy & labour & just give the baby away".

It's all about what is best for "me". Not what is best for the baby.

Many babies are born that are not wanted. You only have to watch the news & read the newspapers to see what people do to unwanted children (or sometimes children with special needs) or who's lives are such a mess that they just can't cope with their kids to know that this is a fact. Yes Centelink throws money at you, but that does not mean you suddenly want that child when it's born. Most probably do love the child when born, but some don't. If you truly don't want a baby then don't have it, or adopt it, don't keep it. We have several government departments that just can't keep up with the protection of such children, that probably would've been far better off had they been given up for adoption.

If everyone thought of the child first and themselves second we would probably see adoption more common in Australia.



Adoption is big business in some countries - most of which don't have the equivalent of the parenting payment. It's still common in the US to adopt your baby out as the Govt does not throw money at you for giving birth like ours does. I'm watching a show on Foxtel right now about a mum of one who is giving her 2nd bub away as she knows it's the best for her child. She can't afford it, lives with her parents & has plans for her life, so she is giving the bub up.

It's less common in countries like the UK as they get benefits somewhat like we do in Australia.

Many Asian & Eastern European countries have huge amounts of adoptions because of the lack of govt support. In those countries women tend to have an abortion or adopt the baby out as they know they can't provide for the baby.


sorry, so, you are saying that you think if we offered less social welfare, there would be less child abuse because more people would give their babies up for adoption?
I'm not arguing that adoption is always the wrong option, but I don't think this is the reason for why there is so much child abuse! there is still plenty of child abuse in the united states.

don't you think the better option over adoption is to help and support new parents and pregnant people who don't have the skills? I mean yes, in the situation where someone has carried a pregnancy but they KNOW they do not want to be a parent, I'm all for adoption. however, it sounds from your post like you think it adoption should just be the automatic response to unplanned pregnancy. Did I get this wrong? sorry, I could have misunderstood you.

[RoarsomeMum]

totally 100% agree YND.. it IS a hard decision and you DO have to live with it for the rest of your life.. I was not trying to minimize the emotional impact of the other decisions.. they ALL live with you for the rest of your life.. that is all I am saying. Carying a baby to full term at least allows Mum 8-9-10 months of pregnancy, photo's, support, the joy of dreams comming true for another family.. YES it is hard.. but it comes with the privilage of being allowed to carry, meet and give away your child.. a HUGE decision that I thank EVERYONE who has made it.. It is indeed a corageous choice, and we all know it.. as Mums, we all empathise with how hard and heartbreaking the choice must be.. we ALL (as shown by the thread) aknowledge that..

Abortion however is seen as the easy way out.. No need to offer empathy to the "carrier" when, in reality, it simply is not.. all of the emotional responses of adoption are still there.. and I am basing this on my own ability to heal, compared to my sister, who did choose adoption. And because of that, has the luxury of bi-yearly, being able to see pictures of her son happy with his family.. where as I have to conjure up the images in my mind, and hope, one day, that I will be forgiven.

I had a child, It was difficult
I watched my sister give up her child, it was difficult
I had an abortion, it was difficult..

But no-one acknowledges the difficulties of the 3rd experience.. and IMO THAT is why abortion is the #1 choice for unwanted pregnancy. As people like myself speak out, the numbers may not change (and that is not my prerogative anyway) but at least people will be AWARE.. its an accessible option, NOT an easy option.. Choosing is Great, with ALL the info.. and there needs to be more on Adoption AND on the effects of abortion.. NOT for guilt, NOT for shame, but for your right to make an informed decision.:hugs::hugs:

(sorry to stray Off topic a tad.. but I really think the issues are linked.)

[MummaBear03]

it sounds from your post like you think it adoption should just be the automatic response to unplanned pregnancy. Did I get this wrong? sorry, I could have misunderstood you.

That's not what I was intending it sound like, I just thought from my own experiences and from what I've read on BH it seems automatic that people will have an abortion if they don't want a baby and find out they're pregnant. I just think it's rarely mentioned as a valid option in this country and I was asking why. Even when I rang Children By Choice, I was told it was for ALL options of an unplanned pregnancy including abortion, adoption or parenting but they kept on pushing abortion onto me. I said that at this stage I'm looking at keeping the baby but want the information on adoption anyway just in case, when the baby is born, there are feelings of hate and resentment towards the baby because no child deserves that. Luckily I've coped very well with parenting.

I don't often hear of people giving up a baby for adoption that's healthy. My brother and SIL looked into it and there are very, very few Australian babies up for adoption and that's why people adopt from overseas, but that's even difficult for many to do now.

[bumMum]

That's not what I was intending it sound like, I just thought from my own experiences and from what I've read on BH it seems automatic that people will have an abortion if they don't want a baby and find out they're pregnant. I just think it's rarely mentioned as a valid option in this country and I was asking why. Even when I rang Children By Choice, I was told it was for ALL options of an unplanned pregnancy including abortion, adoption or parenting but they kept on pushing abortion onto me. I said that at this stage I'm looking at keeping the baby but want the information on adoption anyway just in case, when the baby is born, there are feelings of hate and resentment towards the baby because no child deserves that. Luckily I've coped very well with parenting.

I don't often hear of people giving up a baby for adoption that's healthy. My brother and SIL looked into it and there are very, very few Australian babies up for adoption and that's why people adopt from overseas, but that's even difficult for many to do now.

Oh I was not talking about your original thread starter, I was referring to the post I quoted by Amara. I can see what you mean, nobody ever offered me the option of adoption, except my boss, who wanted me to give my baby to one of her friends from work :confused: however, on the whole, I didn't experience much encouragement about adoption either, mostly because I guess it is assumed that you will choose a termination if you don't want the pregnancy these days.
I think it is a good idea that adoption be an available option too, because there are women out there who can go through that process, although I felt that some of the posts were trying to imply that simply because adoption is the selfless option, it is the right option.

[Amara]

sorry, so, you are saying that you think if we offered less social welfare, there would be less child abuse because more people would give their babies up for adoption?
I'm not arguing that adoption is always the wrong option, but I don't think this is the reason for why there is so much child abuse! there is still plenty of child abuse in the united states.

don't you think the better option over adoption is to help and support new parents and pregnant people who don't have the skills? I mean yes, in the situation where someone has carried a pregnancy but they KNOW they do not want to be a parent, I'm all for adoption. however, it sounds from your post like you think it adoption should just be the automatic response to unplanned pregnancy. Did I get this wrong? sorry, I could have misunderstood you.

No I'm not saying that. Less social welfare could increase it, particularly for those who already have children. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of kids out there who aren't particularly wanted in this world, and that perhaps adoption would've been a better option for them, but for some reason the authorities have gone very anti adoption & try to keep kids in households at all costs sometimes resulting in some very tragic circumstances.

What I'm also saying is that if less money was thrown at parents (both single & partnered) then there would be less inclination for some to keep having children, therefore that would bring up adoption rates (and abortion rates too no doubt).

I am in receipt of Govt money so I'm not picking on any group or anything, just stating what I think. I'd certainly hate to see the payments disappear, but I do believe that further on down the track our Govt will have no choice but to cut back on some of the payments due to our ever increasing ageing population.

Back in the days when parents didn't get given money to have children (so say when I was born back in the 60's & prior to then) many more women gave up their babies for adoption.

I think that if the money disappeared then many more women would adopt their bubs out. IMHO this would have to be the case as loads of women on here who say they are anti abortion & many of them could not afford to have another child if all govt benefits were taken away from them - I'm talking FTB A&B, Chidcare rebate, parenting payment, baby bonus. There are not enough jobs out there for every SAHM to suddenly go out and pick up a job so working would not be the answer for everyone. I can't imagine that all those things would disappear but you never know what the future holds.

I definately don't think that adoption is the answer to every unplanned pregnancy. I personally have had a very long struggle with conceiving so I've never been in the position to even think about having to have an abortion or to adopt a bub out. I can't even imagine having to face that.

[bumMum]

quote Amara: No I'm not saying that. Less social welfare could increase it, particularly for those who already have children. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of kids out there who aren't particularly wanted in this world, and that perhaps adoption would've been a better option for them

I think that makes better sense than how I read your post last time. I kind of agree with that, sometimes it isn't better to keep a family together at all costs, although I do think in many situations it is better.

What I'm also saying is that if less money was thrown at parents (both single & partnered) then there would be less inclination for some to keep having children, therefore that would bring up adoption rates (and abortion rates too no doubt). I really think it would just bring up abortion rates. I could be wrong though.

I am in receipt of Govt money so I'm not picking on any group or anything, just stating what I think. I'd certainly hate to see the payments disappear, but I do believe that further on down the track our Govt will have no choice but to cut back on some of the payments due to our ever increasing ageing population.
yeah, I'm fairly sure you are right about that :(

Back in the days when parents didn't get given money to have children (so say when I was born back in the 60's & prior to then) many more women gave up their babies for adoption.

I think that if the money disappeared then many more women would adopt their bubs out. IMHO this would have to be the case as loads of women on here who say they are anti abortion & many of them could not afford to have another child if all govt benefits were taken away from them - I'm talking FTB A&B, Chidcare rebate, parenting payment, baby bonus. There are not enough jobs out there for every SAHM to suddenly go out and pick up a job so working would not be the answer for everyone. I can't imagine that all those things would disappear but you never know what the future holds.
yeah I can see what you mean now. sorry, I think I read your post slightly wrong, or I am just still having flashbacks to previous threads about social welfare today ahahaha.I hope the world doesn't go this way. many people who had to give their babies away in the past because they felt forced suffered a lot because of it and it makes me really sad to think about it becoming so hard for our own children some day to be able to have the same options as us.

I definately don't think that adoption is the answer to every unplanned pregnancy. I personally have had a very long struggle with conceiving so I've never been in the position to even think about having to have an abortion or to adopt a bub out. I can't even imagine having to face that.

[ICanDream]

I can understand the emotion and physical consequence of carrying a baby and then giving it away and I don't think I could give a baby up for an adoption but as an adopted child myself, the negative attitude towards it is crushing.

To hear people IRL say to me that there is no way in hell that they would adopt a child, that adopted children are just trouble, if you can't do it from IVF then why have someone else's child etc etc - these are people that know I am adopted.

Maybe there is such a stigma around it these days that didn't exist 30yrs ago in the absence of IVF etc that people were more likely to go through that heartache as in some instances that may be the only option a childless family had to gain a child.

Plus 30 yrs ago it was easier to adopt for a number of reasons.

[Whispers]

How lovely and exciting for the adoptive parents :) Your 2nd cousin is very brave, regardless of whether she left her decision too late or not :yelclap:
:iagree: What a wonderful brave person to be able to give such a gift.

To answer the OP's question I think that abortion is seen as a easier option then adoption. I think both would be hard and would never make ether decision but as much as I disagree with abortion any women who chooses to do ether I would consider very brave as it would have been such a hard decision to make and would never cast judgment on them.

[SassyMummy]

Carla - I would have no qualms about adopting a child if there were needy children that we had access to (not had to jump hoops and spend a fortune to get)... but my thoughts on adopting a child are quite different to my thought on ME giving up a child for adoption.

[ICanDream]

Carla - I would have no qualms about adopting a child if there were needy children that we had access to (not had to jump hoops and spend a fortune to get)... but my thoughts on adopting a child are quite different to my thought on ME giving up a child for adoption.

But I wasn't a needy child, I was just an average child that needed a home - do they have to be needy to be adopted?

I think views on adopting children are very different to giving one up for adoption but is it because of modern technology (IVF in particular) and the progression of women's rights etc that the whole notion of giving up for adoption or adopting a child has changed so much?

[SassyMummy]

Sorry, my use of the word "needy" simply meant "in need of a home/family."

[Opinionated]

I would never consider adoption. I would adopt if I had the chance.

I could never carry a child and give it up. Never. I also don't think adoption is great for all kids. I had a partner who had been adopted and he had huge issues about abandonment and not being good enough related to being adopted. This is despite having a great family.

I would love to adopt. In fact, I plan more children and would love to adopt them. The fact is though, it is an expensive and very hard process. There is not many children in Australia to adopt and it is a long, hard, expensive road to adopt from overseas. I will be quicker and easier to just have more of my own. Sad really when there is kids in orphanages that need homes.

[Ardentwhispers]

Surrogacy is not legal everywhere & there are huge legal implications as well.

Adoption is big business in some countries - most of which don't have the equivalent of the parenting payment. It's still common in the US to adopt your baby out as the Govt does not throw money at you for giving birth like ours does. I'm watching a show on Foxtel right now about a mum of one who is giving her 2nd bub away as she knows it's the best for her child. She can't afford it, lives with her parents & has plans for her life, so she is giving the bub up.

It's less common in countries like the UK as they get benefits somewhat like we do in Australia.

Many Asian & Eastern European countries have huge amounts of adoptions because of the lack of govt support. In those countries women tend to have an abortion or adopt the baby out as they know they can't provide for the baby.

Shouldn't the focus be on more legal rights for those wanting to be/use surrogates, then? I mean...that seems a lot more logical to me than urging women who don't want to be pregnant to be surrogates via adoption.

Being that I'm from America I know all about how often adoption happens there. That doesn't make it a *popular* option, not at all. I have friends there who have given up children to adoption because they were "forced" into it by a society that doesn't give them many choices...it's heartwrenching the turmoil that they live with, sometimes decades later. It's not only because of government benefits, either..it has a lot to do with American society's views on abortion...a lot of clinics push you into adoption unless you stand up to them wholeheartedly. And outside of that it's very taboo.

[Ardentwhispers]

No I'm not saying that. Less social welfare could increase it, particularly for those who already have children. I was just pointing out that there are a lot of kids out there who aren't particularly wanted in this world, and that perhaps adoption would've been a better option for them, but for some reason the authorities have gone very anti adoption & try to keep kids in households at all costs sometimes resulting in some very tragic circumstances.


It's not really "some reason." It's based on quite a broad array of research that says that most children fare better in a troubled home than they do outside of it. That's based on a lot of things really, one being the fact that most kids from these homes already have a lot of problems and won't find anywhere permanent but be bounced around from one foster or group home to the next.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rules and sometimes I imagine it can be hard to forsee some of them.

[Ardentwhispers]

What I'm also saying is that if less money was thrown at parents (both single & partnered) then there would be less inclination for some to keep having children, therefore that would bring up adoption rates (and abortion rates too no doubt).

I am in receipt of Govt money so I'm not picking on any group or anything, just stating what I think. I'd certainly hate to see the payments disappear, but I do believe that further on down the track our Govt will have no choice but to cut back on some of the payments due to our ever increasing ageing population.


Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on you lol.

You sort of answered your own statement, though. The main reason the government throws money at people having children is to combat the ageing population. Australians aren't reproducing at a fast enough rate to do so at the moment...so therefore more money = more babies = good politics in a somewhat skewed package lol.

[ThomasMum]

Tis simple, because the process of adopting is not easy. A friend of us did it, it costs them A LOT mentally and financially.

[ConfettiGirl]

I don't know why to be honest.

I have no answers as to why woman make the choice to abort rather than maintain the life of the child who desperately wants to grow and live, and then place the child with a family who will nurture and love it.

I am trying (really hard) not to be judgemental as I know it's not my place to judge, but the thought of abortion is an alien concept to me and the acceptance of abortion by society is an even more alien concept. I wont even try to understand the rationale behind the decision to abort - because I simply will NEVER understand it (no matter what people say to me to try and get me to understand).

If I was faced with the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy then I would most definitely make the choice to either keep the child and if that is impossible given my circumstances I would give the child up for adoption.

This is said with the same certainty as I will tell everyone that I will never use the morning after pill....never have either.

As for explaining to society about my pregnancy and why I don't have my baby I would simply be honest and tell them that I put my baby up for adoption because I could not be the mother I needed to be for the child. Those people who truely matter to me will understand and those who would judge me for my choice are not people I would want in my life anyway! I would not divulge more information then I felt was necessary at the time. I would also ask for assistance from a qualified professional on how to explain the situation to my existing children - I would never undertake the task of placing my child with another family without ensuring I had a support network in place.

As for spending the rest of my life wondering about the child living with their adoptive family well first off I would also do that if I had an abortion - I would forever wonder about the child who I never gave birth too......I would grieve for an adopted out child but I would also grieve for a dead child. I see the child as an innocent being and in the event of an unwanted pregnancy I would just have to accept that adoption (and the subsequent feelings of loss, etc) are just something that I have to deal with for the benefit of my child -who I believe deserves to live just as much as I do. At least deep down in my heart I would know that my child is as happy as they could be and that I gave them a good start in life - that at least they are alive to grow up, get married and have their own children. My pain is something that I would need to deal with - and I would get counselling to help me deal with it. But to me it's more about the child's right to life than it is about protecting myself from feelings of grief.

Disclaimer: none of what I have written is intended to stir an argument, nor is it intended to be a "holier than thou" post where I pass judgement on women who have had an abortion. It is simply a reflection on my own opinions and feelings and what I would do if I was personally in that situation. Obviously I cannot speak for everyone and do not attempt to do so! Please take this post in the nature it was intended (as an expression of personal views).

I do not think women who have aborted a child is either selfish or evil....I will never understand abortion but that does not mean I have an inherant dislike for anyone who HAS had (or will have) an abortion. I also accept that my view is in the minority, and I am happy with that because I am comfortable with my views :yes: I do not need to change anyone else's opinion because I do not need justification that my opinion is right - it's right for ME, as other people's opinions are right for THEM . I will not argue about this topic as in past experiences I have learnt that it gets no-where and just results in people getting hurt, angry and emotional - me included.

[Ffrenchknickers]

I don't know why to be honest.

I have no answers as to why woman make the choice to abort rather than maintain the life of the child who desperately wants to grow and live, and then place the child with a family who will nurture and love it.

I am trying (really hard) not to be judgemental as I know it's not my place to judge, but the thought of abortion is an alien concept to me and the acceptance of abortion by society is an even more alien concept. I wont even try to understand the rationale behind the decision to abort - because I simply will NEVER understand it (no matter what people say to me to try and get me to understand).

If I was faced with the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy then I would most definitely make the choice to either keep the child and if that is impossible given my circumstances I would give the child up for adoption.

This is said with the same certainty as I will tell everyone that I will never use the morning after pill....never have either.

As for explaining to society about my pregnancy and why I don't have my baby I would simply be honest and tell them that I put my baby up for adoption because I could not be the mother I needed to be for the child. Those people who truely matter to me will understand and those who would judge me for my choice are not people I would want in my life anyway! I would not divulge more information then I felt was necessary at the time. I would also ask for assistance from a qualified professional on how to explain the situation to my existing children - I would never undertake the task of placing my child with another family without ensuring I had a support network in place.

As for spending the rest of my life wondering about the child living with their adoptive family well first off I would also do that if I had an abortion - I would forever wonder about the child who I never gave birth too......I would grieve for an adopted out child but I would also grieve for a dead child. I see the child as an innocent being and in the event of an unwanted pregnancy I would just have to accept that adoption (and the subsequent feelings of loss, etc) are just something that I have to deal with for the benefit of my child -who I believe deserves to live just as much as I do. At least deep down in my heart I would know that my child is as happy as they could be and that I gave them a good start in life - that at least they are alive to grow up, get married and have their own children. My pain is something that I would need to deal with - and I would get counselling to help me deal with it. But to me it's more about the child's right to life than it is about protecting myself from feelings of grief.

Disclaimer: none of what I have written is intended to stir an argument, nor is it intended to be a "holier than thou" post where I pass judgement on women who have had an abortion. It is simply a reflection on my own opinions and feelings and what I would do if I was personally in that situation. Obviously I cannot speak for everyone and do not attempt to do so! Please take this post in the nature it was intended (as an expression of personal views).

I do not think women who have aborted a child is either selfish or evil....I will never understand abortion but that does not mean I have an inherant dislike for anyone who HAS had (or will have) an abortion. I also accept that my view is in the minority, and I am happy with that because I am comfortable with my views :yes: I do not need to change anyone else's opinion because I do not need justification that my opinion is right - it's right for ME, as other people's opinions are right for THEM . I will not argue about this topic as in past experiences I have learnt that it gets no-where and just results in people getting hurt, angry and emotional - me included.

Thankyou, you have spoken my every thought on the subject. I totally agree :)

[Alekay]

I wish it was as easy to find out about adoption as abortion so that women with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies had the same amount of information on ALL the choices.

I am adopted as is my brother. I could not give a child up for adoption as I could not live with knowing they are living somewhere and I have no idea how they are or being a part of their lives. I also do not think that any screening program can assure me my child would be safe with the potential adoptive parents and that risk alone for me is too much.

As for having an abortion at this point that would be my choice though that may change if I was actually in the position of an unplanned pregnancy.

[MummaBear03]

I wish it was as easy to find out about adoption as abortion so that women with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies had the same amount of information on ALL the choices.

This is what I was trying to get at. The information is very difficult to find for those wanting to look into adoption, but very easy for those looking into abortion. I had to ring so many different places, and even one place tried to push abortion onto me when I rang to ask about adoption. It was supposed to be for ALL options, but they tried to tell me that under the circumstances there's no way I should be keeping this baby and abortion is the option I could live with the most long-term.

There was not much around to support the choice of adoption. It's not about "pushing" people into carrying a baby they don't want to carry, it's about giving support for all options including adoption if that's what people want.

[SomewhereOverTheRainbow]

Abortion however is seen as the easy way out.. No need to offer empathy to the "carrier" when, in reality, it simply is not.. all of the emotional responses of adoption are still there.. and I am basing this on my own ability to heal, compared to my sister, who did choose adoption. And because of that, has the luxury of bi-yearly, being able to see pictures of her son happy with his family.. where as I have to conjure up the images in my mind, and hope, one day, that I will be forgiven.

I had a child, It was difficult
I watched my sister give up her child, it was difficult
I had an abortion, it was difficult..



Massivest of :hugs: for you honey. I agree with what you have written and TBH that is probably the main reason I would give a bub up for adoption instead of abort. I could deal with the 'what is he/she doing/ what is he like' etc much better than the 'what would he have been like' etc. I lost my bub at 19 weeks and I struggle constantly with the 'what would he be like at almost 1 etc' and it would be even harder to deal with any confusion or guilt attached to that (I hope that makes sense :hugs:).



I can understand the emotion and physical consequence of carrying a baby and then giving it away and I don't think I could give a baby up for an adoption but as an adopted child myself, the negative attitude towards it is crushing.

To hear people IRL say to me that there is no way in hell that they would adopt a child, that adopted children are just trouble, if you can't do it from IVF then why have someone else's child etc etc - these are people that know I am adopted.



:hugs: I think most people (at least those here and the one's i know IRL) have the attitude where they would adopt but would not give a child up for adoption.
I hate the stigma attached to it too though, my father is adopted as is my MIL. I hate to think that if abortion was as prevalent as it is today then neither of us would be here. Nor would my sibling and children. I'm very grateful that my dad was adopted out because it means I'm here, I exist.



I don't know why to be honest.

I have no answers as to why woman make the choice to abort rather than maintain the life of the child who desperately wants to grow and live, and then place the child with a family who will nurture and love it.

I am trying (really hard) not to be judgemental as I know it's not my place to judge, but the thought of abortion is an alien concept to me and the acceptance of abortion by society is an even more alien concept. I wont even try to understand the rationale behind the decision to abort - because I simply will NEVER understand it (no matter what people say to me to try and get me to understand).

If I was faced with the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy then I would most definitely make the choice to either keep the child and if that is impossible given my circumstances I would give the child up for adoption.

This is said with the same certainty as I will tell everyone that I will never use the morning after pill....never have either.

As for explaining to society about my pregnancy and why I don't have my baby I would simply be honest and tell them that I put my baby up for adoption because I could not be the mother I needed to be for the child. Those people who truely matter to me will understand and those who would judge me for my choice are not people I would want in my life anyway! I would not divulge more information then I felt was necessary at the time. I would also ask for assistance from a qualified professional on how to explain the situation to my existing children - I would never undertake the task of placing my child with another family without ensuring I had a support network in place.

As for spending the rest of my life wondering about the child living with their adoptive family well first off I would also do that if I had an abortion - I would forever wonder about the child who I never gave birth too......I would grieve for an adopted out child but I would also grieve for a dead child. I see the child as an innocent being and in the event of an unwanted pregnancy I would just have to accept that adoption (and the subsequent feelings of loss, etc) are just something that I have to deal with for the benefit of my child -who I believe deserves to live just as much as I do. At least deep down in my heart I would know that my child is as happy as they could be and that I gave them a good start in life - that at least they are alive to grow up, get married and have their own children. My pain is something that I would need to deal with - and I would get counselling to help me deal with it. But to me it's more about the child's right to life than it is about protecting myself from feelings of grief.

Disclaimer: none of what I have written is intended to stir an argument, nor is it intended to be a "holier than thou" post where I pass judgement on women who have had an abortion. It is simply a reflection on my own opinions and feelings and what I would do if I was personally in that situation. Obviously I cannot speak for everyone and do not attempt to do so! Please take this post in the nature it was intended (as an expression of personal views).

I do not think women who have aborted a child is either selfish or evil....I will never understand abortion but that does not mean I have an inherant dislike for anyone who HAS had (or will have) an abortion. I also accept that my view is in the minority, and I am happy with that because I am comfortable with my views I do not need to change anyone else's opinion because I do not need justification that my opinion is right - it's right for ME, as other people's opinions are right for THEM . I will not argue about this topic as in past experiences I have learnt that it gets no-where and just results in people getting hurt, angry and emotional - me included.

Thank you for writing that, I agree completely and you brought a tear to my eye.