Sleep Doctors

[daytime-tv-addict]

Has anyone here been to or thinking of going to see a Sleep Doctor? I currently see one and we saw him before and after baby Kyla was born and he has been great. Everything he has suggested has worked, however the Midwives at my Mothers Group are very against him to the point that they basically try to slander him every time sleep issues are brought up. I think this is terrible, because as a Mum I know that you need to be given a broad spectrum of advice before you go with what is right for your child and I don't think stopping people from getting advice from other sources is very helpful at all.

[the_queen]

What exactly does your sleep doctor advocate? Does he charge you for his services? I'm always cynical of "baby-trainers" who charge for their services, I just can't beleive that their intentions are truly 100% in the best interest of the baby.

[daytime-tv-addict]

Yes there is a fee to see him, however he is also a Paediatrician so naturally there would be a fee. There is an element of controlled-crying, however it is not as severe as other ways I have read about. His ways are all about the baby getting enough sleep during the day and the right amount of food to ensure good sleeping patterns at night. My daughter does not appear to have suffered at the hands of his methods, as they are nothing really that out of the ordinary, it is really all about timing, i.e not allowing her to become overtired etc. which is basic to a baby's well-being anyway.

[the_queen]

Have you asked your midwives why they dislike him so much? Maybe they themselves could have some alternative advice that might work just as well. :)

[daytime-tv-addict]

The midwives dislike his methods, they go so far as saying "abusive", however he has invited all of them no matter who or where they attend to come and see him during a session, he has even offered to attend Mothers Groups, but they refuse. They have no idea what he is really on a about, they have just made misinformed and ignorant suggestions as to his methods. They constantly quote the WHO, which is fine but babies don't know these stats and walk to the beat of their own drums, so if they are slightly askew of what the WHO says what do you do??? I shouldn't generalise Midwives, I am only speaking about the ones I have come into contact with.

[~Emmylou~]

I think at the moment the pervasive "trend" is child rearing is gentle methods, not allowing them to cry, and basically allowing the baby to dictate sleep times, feed times, how much they eat, where they sleep....pretty much everything.

When we were babies the "trend" was the total opposite - we were fed on 4 hourly schedules, told when to sleep, when to eat, what and how much etc. We slept in cots in our rooms, co sleeping was in the minority. Our upbringing was much more structured.

Whenever one trend is prevalent, the other one is bagged and ridiculed and basically out in the cold....until it reverses as all trends do and we get told to do everything the other way :rolleyes:

I really tend towards the routine way of doing things but I recognise there are good things about the other school of thought. The way I parent borrows a bit from both, I use what works for us and the rest is best left to those for whom it works. There will always be someone telling you you're doing the wrong thing and I think the best way of dealing with that is just don't discuss it with people who you know are going to give you grief.

As for what the WHO or midwives have to say about it - I will take that on board, but ultimately the happiness and health of my kids is MY responsibility and I will do what I think is best ;) You should do the same!

Good luck :)

[buzzing bee]

Hi

I just wanted to reply to emylou's post about the current trend being gentle methods of parenting. I have found the complete opposite with the majority of people more into cc, having baby in a cot or basinette, and basically following the rules set by child health or the convenience of the mothers and fathers. I am not against routines or anything but I find it interested that you have found the opposite within the community.

Maybe it depends on where you live, but to the orginal post I think some midwives or child health nurses are set in there ways and aren't likely to change. Perhaps you could go to different centre if they don't have the same ideas on parenting that you do.

[daytime-tv-addict]

EmmyLou- I also pretty much use my own methods based on what I read and been told and it works just fine. My daughter sleeps 12 hours straight at night (she is 3 months and 2 weeks old) and she is a very happy and contented baby during the day. She plays with a rattle, laughs out loud and has started rolling over.

[daytime-tv-addict]

Emmygirl- I have found the same as you, that CC seems to be the way to go, although there is a big wedge between the people who do and don't, is that what you are finding?

[~Emmylou~]

EmmyLou- I also pretty much use my own methods based on what I read and been told and it works just fine. My daughter sleeps 12 hours straight at night (she is 3 months and 2 weeks old) and she is a very happy and contented baby during the day. She plays with a rattle, laughs out loud and has started rolling over.

Exactly! She is happy, you are happy so you must be doing something right. Which is why I say ignore everyone else, what's right for them is obviously not right for you and that's ok.

emmymygirl - I think it depends who you talk to - my mother, her friends and others her age (ie. older doctors etc) are definitely pro-routine, you're right. But amongst my friends and other people my age I find I'm in the minority - for example my two best friends both co-sleep with their kids and have 3 year olds who go to bed when they want at night - usually around 11pm. I could never cop that and they think it's weird that my daughter is in bed asleep by 7 :laughing:

[buzzing bee]

Emylou, I still find the majority are more into routines and cc, I think even on this forum you hear alot about routines and cc unless you go into the no cry section or attachment parenting parts. I found the only people that aren't into cc or routines are my mother and mil. The child health centres and baby clinics all advocate cc and I was hard pressed to find someone else like me who doesn't use cc. So I am suprised that the midwives tv addict is talking about dismissing these methods.

But I agree that there is a lot of judgment about different styles of parenting.

[daytime-tv-addict]

[quote=emymygirl]So I am suprised that the midwives tv addict is talking about dismissing these methods.

Yeah, see that's what surprised me as well initially. In fact the midwife running the group has a 3 year old who still wakes during the night and sleeps with her! Personally I think that is a little too old to still be doing that, I would like my daughter to achieve independant sleeping well before then! She firmly believes it is abusive to let your child cry and I take offence to that because my daughter would have to be one of the happiest abused children I have every seen in that case! I don't mind that she has an opinion, I just feel it's wrong of her to try and sway everyone into her thinking, especially first time mums.

[JE's Mum]

It seems some babies will always cry and scream when they are trying to go to sleep. I know plenty of people whose babies hated being rocked or patted and the only way was for them to cry. They always felt terrible about what people would think but it really depends so much on the baby. My son is 'Mr Cuddles' and has always loved snuggling up to people from the day he was born. People always say how wonderful it is that he is affectionate but at the same time, don't like fact that he hates being alone at night and is wakeful. You can't have your cake and eat it too I say! All babies are different in the sleep department and you are better off going with what works with yours. You know her best.

As for the other debate, personally I find there is a real contradiction these days. We are all supposed to breastfeed on demand but we are also supposed to teach our children to sleep independently with control crying for a set amount at night and for a set number of naps during the day. What a load of rubbish! Unfortunately, the two don't go together unless you are extremely lucky and that has more to do with the baby than anything else (i.e. you just happen to have a breastfed baby that loves their sleep). Most babies don't sleep 10-12 hour stretches at night without calling for attention. For that matter, most toddlers don't do it all the time either. The advice they give on sleep these days is just rubbish....that's my two cents!

[Goosie22]

His ways are all about the baby getting enough sleep during the day and the right amount of food to ensure good sleeping patterns at night.

How does the Sleep Doctor ensure the right ammount of food? And when would the CIO come into it, what age does he start it? Maybe that is what the midwives have a problem with.

[daytime-tv-addict]

How does the Sleep Doctor ensure the right ammount of food? And when would the CIO come into it, what age does he start it? Maybe that is what the midwives have a problem with.

The sleep doctor starts his techniques from birth, although they are obviously not as strict and he does not use the CIO method when they are newborns. In terms of enough food, he teaches you ways to make sure the babies are eating properly and not just snacking, because this can be a big cause of disrupted sleep. I think the midwives that I have been in contact purely and simply think that babies should be attended to at the drop of a hat and that they will be crying for a reason. This I agree with in part, I know that my daughter will cry for 3 major reasons - Hunger, Tiredness and if she is uncomfortable, i.e hot, cold, very dirty nappy. Aside from those things, she is very contented and has no other reason to cry. So if all those things are attended to, I know that the last thing must be tiredness and that is one thing that only she can resolve.

[mich71]

its up to you if this doc has worked for you and your dd is happy then keep going on with it i did cc at karitnie years ago dh cant handle doing it so it was point less contiung it with the boys but it does work and it was hard for me to do it i just wantd to go to her i wouldnt listen to them about what they say about your doc and sugest not talking to them about sleep isuses if thats what there like

[Goosie22]

Hi again day-time-TV addict,

Babies cry for your attention to be comforted by you, because by interacting with you they learn, they are not trying to inconvience you or manipulate you. Its love they need not CIO.

I dont know why you would pay a Paed for settling information especially CIO or routine Breastfeeding advice.........seems suspicious to have to pay a Specialist fee for information readily available at your libary.

[daytime-tv-addict]

Hi again day-time-TV addict,

Babies cry for your attention to be comforted by you, because by interacting with you they learn, they are not trying to inconvience you or manipulate you. Its love they need not CIO.

I dont know why you would pay a Paed for settling information especially CIO or routine Breastfeeding advice.........seems suspicious to have to pay a Specialist fee for information readily available at your libary.

This guy was already my paediatrician so it was really of no inconvenience or of any suspicious reason that he would be giving me information prior to and after having my child and I don't have any problems paying him, as I am sure when you take your child to the doctor a fee is also paid. I have never once thought that my child was trying to "manipulate" or "inconvenience" me, as I mentioned my daughter only cries minimally for the specific reasons mentioned in my previous post. Also, not that I should really have to explain my parenting skills, I comfort my daughter whenever she needs it and interact with her daily. There is not one waking moment that I have ever thought of her as an inconvenience. There have been occasions where I know she is crying for something else and I attend to her immediately, e.g one morning she had cut her gum with her fingernail and was bleeding and I knew the minute I heard her cry that it was different to all the others and I didn't think twice about attending to her when I heard her. I don't think any mother would let their child cry unnecessarily and as I mentioned I know when she is tired and grizzling for 5 minutes is not going to give her the impression I do not love her just because I am not standing by her bedside until she falls asleep. I appreciate that obviously you are not pro the sleep doctor idea but I do not think you should belittle someone for trying to gain as much information on settling/sleeping as they can. It is up to me whether I pay for it or gain it freely and I am more than happy with the decisions I have made, because I have a healthy, happy child and that is what counts.

[buzzing bee]

Hi All

I have a question for JE's mum, with the breast fed babies not being good sleepers is that just because of the breast milk being digested quicker and therefore the babies being hungry earlier or is there another reason?.

I know it is off the subject but just wanted to ask

[elissas]

Hi emymygirl,

Breastmilk does digest quicker. DS is 7mths and still wakes a few times in the night. And I hear his belly rumbling!!

It is in a baby's nature to wake, it is their defensive mechanism against problems (such as those that lead to SIDS). It is healthy for a baby to wake a few times in the night, as their biological clock is still developing and they naturally have lighter sleep than adults (the don't sleep deeply the same way we do).

[JE's Mum]

Hi Emymy girl,

While some of it is about breastmilk being more easily digested, a lot of it is also about the way breastfed babies feed during the day. Many can start sleeping well from around 2-3 months and then start waking for feeds again when they become more easily distracted, around 4-5 months. They start fussing around with their daytime feeds because there are far more interesting things to do than eat! Of course they might need to make this up at night when its dark and quiet. You know this yourself when you start thinking about the way they feed from this age. While they are more efficient at draining the milk, they probably aren't getting as much milk given they're 'on again off again' feeding! There is a really good article by a lactation consultant which explains this http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html

It's easier to get the milk into babies using the bottle (although, while true for the most part, this is still a generalisation. I know mums who had plenty of trouble getting their babies to drink all their bottles too!).

My son followed this pattern to the letter. I had to feed him in a dark room during the day from around 5 months. He was having a feed in the middle of the night until he was nine months at which point I decided he probably didn't need it and after a couple of nights of fussing a bit, he was happy to go back to sleep with a cuddle instead. :smiliedance:

That's not to say that all breastfed babies do this though. Some mums I know (although in the minority) are particularly lucky and their babies love their sleep so have never started waking for feeds again. Others have either started solids around this time or supplemented with formula at night. Personally, we had so much trouble getting breastfeeding started I was pretty stubborn about not supplementing and thought if he needs a feed in the middle of the night, so be it (he wasn't a great solids eater either!). He was sleeping with us most of the time anyway so it wasn't too bad. ;)