The Immunisation Decision - where did you get your info? [Archive]

cosmic

16-07-2006, 13:19

We all know that the immunisation decision is HARD! I have decided not to get my daughter's 8 week jabs and she also didn't get Hep B at birth. But meanwhile, I am in the process of deciding what vax's she will get and when, since I am not sure I'm going to be a complete non-vaxer but I will definitely be a selective vaxer (and obviously plan to delay them).

For all of you who did lots of research into vaccination, can you PLEASE tell me where you got your information? Is there a good medical database that provides actual journal articles, instead of people's interpretation of those studies? I HATE how biased all the information is and want to get my hands on some facts.

Lots of people say they did their research, but unfortunately, not many people are forthcoming with where they looked for information.

NOTE: Please don't hijack this thread with your personal views on how important you think vax is, and how irresponsible you think non-vaxers are. I want some help with finding good sources of information to help with the decision. Thanks. :thumbsup:

jessgray

16-07-2006, 13:21

i found alot of info on the net as well as info that most doctors have available in their offices :) if you go to a immunisation centre they have tonnes of info on the vaccinations:)

FourAngelKisses

16-07-2006, 13:23

To me it was just the done thing. I didn't have the internet until my DD was 8mths old, but even if I did have it and could have researched, I still would have had it done.

jessgray

16-07-2006, 13:35

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/uci_2.pdf
i have this in bookelt form but form what i see it isnt different to the internet version :)

MilkOnTap

16-07-2006, 13:43

Lots of people say they did their research, but unfortunately, not many people are forthcoming with where they looked for information
I agree with you Cosmic. I also plan on getting ALL the facts before I have a bub and choose whether to immunise or not. And unfortunately government provided resources are usually the most biased out there.

I do recall doing a study on the pro/con vax debate when I was at high school. I will try and track down where I gained my information from - it was unbiased and was factual statistics.

Like you, when I make that decision for my bub, I want it to be because it is my right to make the decision, not because its the 'expected' thing to do.

Elfin

16-07-2006, 13:55

I read the government brochure but I also looked at the WHO site too. I also know someone who is a medical person in Chad, Africa and she is pretty convincing regarding the health benefits of immunisation as she sees preventable diseases regularly maim and kill children in that country. It is very tragic.

For me too it is personal experience, I remember people who had polio. I had two teacher that were crippled by that and worked with a man that was crippled by polio as a child. I didn't need any government brochure for that one.

http://www.who.int/immunization_safety/aefi/immunization_misconceptions/en/ This WHO article is quite interesting, it is from the pro vax side.

Good luck making your decision Cosmic as I agree it is not easy.

annsam

16-07-2006, 13:59

annsam

16-07-2006, 14:01

Hi, pro and con stuff I found on the net. The stuff in the Drs office and govt sites were only pro. It takes an awful lot of reasearch to feel you are making an informed choice because even when you find good reasons to not do it you then find equally good reasons to do it. Its very confussing and took me 10 months of research to make up my own mind about them. :confused: Best of luck!

p.S. personally, I would have looked at in excess of 60 sites to make my choices which is probably why you find not many people being forthcoming in the info because theres too much and its too contradictory so rather than just looking at one and saying "yes thats what I believe" they look at many and a decision builds. Just my assumption anyway.

MilkOnTap

16-07-2006, 14:03

Back with you ladies. After a short amount of googling I have found some fantastic and very informative websites with information about what the vaccines contain, some testimonies from parents of adversely affected children, and a non-biased list of pro's and con's.

http://www.avn.org.au/vaccinations&childhoodimmunizations-info.htm
http://www.thebabyswebsite.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=67

Edited to add - Something else I just want to point out is that the risk-factor varies between different vaccines. For example, the DPT vax (Diphtheria, Pertussis (whooping cough) and Tetanus) is considered the most high risk due to the high mercury content... etc etc...

melfunction

16-07-2006, 14:44

This is where (http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/VaccineResearcher.html) we got alot of info.

cosmic

16-07-2006, 20:34

Thanks everyone. Some of those sites I have seen (AVN for eg) and I'm trying to steer clear of govt ones because they are obviously so pro-vax.

What I hate is the sweeping statements about how effective vaccinating is (or not). What I want is actual research. It's so hard, especially when many of the side effects are not reported. :thumbsdown:

Part of my thinking is along the lines of: why expose my child to the jab and all it contains (mercury, formaldehyde etc) to protect them from a disease they will more than likely never, ever get. Especially when the jab most likely won't protect them fully anyway. OR it would be better for them to have the disease because of the far greater immunity it gives them.

I guess I just need to google and be prepared to wade through mountains of reading. :rolleyes: No doubt I'll be just as confused by the end of it!

annsam

16-07-2006, 20:51

Yip - its a toughy.:yes:

Frazzled

16-07-2006, 20:52

Part of my thinking is along the lines of: why expose my child to the jab and all it contains (mercury, formaldehyde etc) to protect them from a disease they will more than likely never, ever get.

This is the way we were thinking too but when I did the parenting course that the community Health centre ran they had a lot of information for both sides which sealed the decision for us. i dont know if your community centre would have the same stats for your area Cosmic, but ours gave us the specific numbers of the cases of such diseases in our local area (ie-admittance to hospital on a yearly basis) particularly for children. these stats were fightening for us hence why chose to vax - along with our other info (a lot of which has already been cited here). I hope this is not coming across as hijacking, sorry if is - but maybe ask your CCHN for the numbers? I dont know if these are available anywhere else?

reAllytee

16-07-2006, 20:59

Cosmic - Can you tell me what sort of info your after sorry im a bit confused which is easy with me i shouldve been blonde :o Anyways my mum is a polio surviver & is involved in many organisations which means she has access to certain info etc. If i can get more of an idea about what you want to read about etc i can see if i can help you out.

WeThree

16-07-2006, 21:07

~Kate, you are certainly not hijacking, Cosmic asked for research stuff for and against :)

~C it is so hard to know if what we are doing is right. To be honest once I started researching (which basically was DH putting different articles in front of me and telling me to read it :rolleyes: ) I actually now lean more towards non vax, With Thomas I didnt even give it much thought, and with Coops whilst the seeds had been planted, I still felt it best to give them to him, although I delayed most of them till he was 2. Tilly isnt vaccinated, although Im pretty sure she has had her 2 mth ones, and Im still undecided as to what I will end up doing, we all want 'unbiased' information, but all if it is going to favour one or the other, therefore I guess it will all be biased.
Anyway there isnt anything of relevance or help to you in this post, :o just wanted to say that I understand your frustration, we dont want to be putting stuff into their bodies unnecessarily, but then we dont want to risk them getting any of these diseases, or have them be responsible for other children contracting them.

Ponyboy

16-07-2006, 21:17

Being a (almost) librarian I did thorough research on both sides. Using the net to start with and checking out a lot of the government health sites. I then did a search for vaccination and risks/immunisation and risks etc using Google. Plus I used a lot of health databases that I have access to through my work in a uni library.

Some interesting articles I found:

Wolfe, RM, Sharp, LK & Lipsky, MS 2002, 'Content and design attributes of antivaccination web sites', JAMA, Vol.287, no. 24, pp. 3245-3248. It looks at a study that examines antivaccination web site attributes and delineates the specific claims and concerns expressed in these.

Readon, L, 2005, 'A dragon by the trail', Byronchild, Vol.13, March, pp. 10-15. "On the eve of an historic, billion-dollar world vaccination campaign, a leaked transcript ignites questions of vaccine safety and research corruption....."

LePage, M & Ainsworth, C, 2001. 'MMR vaccine: a parent's dilemma,' New scientist, 3 February, pp. 8-9.

Ainsworth, C 2001, 'What's in a shot?' New scientist, 3 February, pp. 8.

Motluk, A 2001, 'Looking for answers', New scientist, 3 February, pp. 10.

Marchant, J 2001, 'It's your choice', New scientist, 3 February, pp. 11.

2001, 'Vaccines: an issue of trust', Consumer reports, August, pp.17-21. "Misinformation and government foot-dragging are fanning fears."

Zimmerman, RK, Middleton, DB, Burns, IT et al, 2001, 'Routine vaccines across the life span, 2001,' The journal of family practice, vol.50, no. 10, pp.s1-s20.

Offit, PA & Jew, RK 2003, 'Addressing parents' concerns: do vaccines contain harmful preservatie, adjuvants, additives, or residuals?', Pediatrics, vol. 112, no. 6, pp. 1394-1401.

plus much more.....

meme

16-07-2006, 21:29

not having a computer then i just read books from my library, talked with my gp and a homeopath .
it's such a personal decision where you need to weigh up what you see as the risks with the vaccine against the risks without it.

i found one library book that i thought was non biased, i'm sorry i can't remember the name of it. it was not about immunisation at all really, so it had none of the pro's and cons. it was just about the diseases and the invention of vaccines.

it helped me to weigh up what i felt the risks were both ways. after learning about the diseases.

at the end of every chapter there was a small segment about the vaccinations. it was very to the point.

i came away being catious of the mmr vax, whooping cough (which has gone through many changes and seems much better now than it was when i had my first 10yrs ago) and the polio vax (which they have changed since then) and yet with a good understanding of the real need that caused vaccines to be invented.
(i also query the hep-b so young.)

i think it's great that you are endevouring to make an informed decision.

Tea Lady

16-07-2006, 21:33

I was just about to suggest going to a uni library and looking at their database of journal articles, but it looks like Sharon's done something similar!

I agree Cosmic, it's better to read the actual articles because there's an awful lot of garbage on the net and any website that's set up to push a point of view (pro or against) is not really going to be balanced, and no-one bothers to set up a website unless they have a barrow to push! Very frustrating!

Ponyboy

17-07-2006, 07:51

A lot of public libraries now have access to a number of health databases that are sure to contain info on vaccinations:

Health & Wellness Resource Center

HealthInsite

Medline plus Health Information

Merck Manual of Medical Information

Anyone who is a member of a Qld public library has access to those listed above.

rynosmum

17-07-2006, 08:10

I looked at quite a few articles on MMR and Prevenar (the pnuemoccocal injection). I also saw a great documentary on the MMR vaccine and research trials.

My main concern was the Autism link and in the past few days I have found this site (http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=115&a=3343) which is the UK National Autistic Society. It goes into great depth on each of the studies undertaken on the link and how none of them seem valid at this point. The only recommendation it makes is that parents who are still concerned should get the individual Measles, Mumps and Rubella shots which will certainly elimate the 'perceived' issues.

Very interesting site.

cjb/jbvd

17-07-2006, 08:22

i spoke to my community area sister. she presented me with a couple of short booklets, then asked the most important question..... what about lifestyle choices?? was i ever planning on taking DS overseas?? was there ever a chance he could come nto contact with any of the diseases vaccinated against?? for me vaccination was the only to go. especially in my line of work. but she did point out that it was purely a personal choice, there was plenty to be said for and against the argument.......

cosmic

17-07-2006, 10:40

Thanks everyone.

Kate, I will see if I can get those stats for my area. That would be interesting.

Sharon.. THANKS! Those articles look great. I'll see if I can get onto some of those databases and download the articles. That's the kind of thing I'm really interested in. :)

saqqara

17-07-2006, 12:58

Can anyone direct me to a site specifically about mercury and formaldyhyde in vaccinations ? I have read a few statements about this by non vaxxers but unable to find def info. thanks

You should check out the cochrane collaboration, which is an international non-profit and independent organisation, dedicated to making up-to-date, accurate information about the effects of healthcare readily available worldwide. It produces and disseminates systematic reviews of healthcare interventions and promotes the search for evidence in the form of clinical trials and other studies of interventions. The Cochrane Collaboration was founded in 1993 and named for the British epidemiologist, Archie Cochrane. (from their site)

They have gone over all the articles and studies (139 of them from memory) in regards to MMR and formaldehyde and mercury, and reviewed all the non biased and high quality ones (only 31 of them were found to be of this quality). They have summaried the findings and given a final conclusion on MMR and formaldehyde/mercury in these vaccines. if you go to the database at http://www.cochrane.org/ and search for MMR you'll find a pdf with the summary.

HTH :)

I understand your frustration, we dont want to be putting stuff into their bodies unnecessarily, but then we dont want to risk them getting any of these diseases, or have them be responsible for other children contracting them.

yep, i think that's the crux of the whole issue, it's a bit of a gamble either way, really :)

Tea Lady

17-07-2006, 13:18

That is a great site, thanks saqqara!!

bnatural

22-07-2006, 21:19

[QUOTE=aijent]
My main concern is that with numbers rising of non vaxxers will these diseases also become more prevalent and it will not be these mums kids who will be damaged but children from disadvantaged homes living unhealthy lifestyles and whose to say they can't/won't be of great benefit to the community/world later on in life, if given the chance.. I know they are working at grassroots ie school age children to change attitudes on food, abuse, hygeine etc but wouldn't an increase/return in disease make this task even harder and place more pressure on already overloaded medical facilities??
QUOTE]

Perhaps this statement could be looked at differently...firstly it is belived vaccination stimulates the immune system, repeated vaccination exhausts the immune system. It gives a false sense of security and, in doing so opens the door to all kinds of illnesses. Vaccination encourages medical dependance and reinforces belief in the inefficiency of the body.

So why not spend all the money that goes into vaccinations into education of healthy eating and living to these 'disadvanted homes'. Why they don't do this? Because vaccination is expensive and represents a cost of one billion dollars annually. It therefore benefits teh industry, most notably, the multinational manufacturers. One sells the vaccines. The other then provides the arsenal of medications to respond to the numerous complications that follow. Their profits increase while our expenses go through the roof.

Taking steps to better our health would then stimulate healthy immune systems to be passed down for generations (therefore better control of being able to cope and overcome diseases more efficienatly and effectively than the onslaught of vaccinations which in turn create weaker immune systems and medical dependance as mentioned above.

I found that the easiest way to make a decision. I mean let's face it, many children escape apparently unharmed from vaccines, I am by no means convinced it is a risk for everyone to be vaccinated) but I am by no means convinced it is of overall benefit. Most kids will get measles and chicken pox and probably pertussis, I am fairly confident she won't get polio, tetanus, Hep B, diptheria and is no more likely to suffer meningicocal than if she was vaxed. Hib - outbreaks are apparently rare now- I am def not vaxed for it that's for sure! Vast amounts of people aren't.

bnatural

22-07-2006, 21:35

sorry I didn't do the quote thing right..:shame:

If anyone is after some alternative reading and not sure where to start, there is a great Australian website (makes more sense to read the local ones I think)
There is also a great video,
I just recommend reading the first page. http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/vidreview.html

Ana Gram

22-07-2006, 22:33

I spent a lot of time reading various sites on the internet - both pro and con, pamphletes, advice from the medical profession etc. I also found it helpful to look into who was funding the research as sometimes bias can be hidden. Plus I researched the actual diseases that are being vaccinated against.

I didn't keep a record of sites I looked at one the internet I'm afraid but there are tons out there with many hours of reading, all contradicting the next.

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 13:47

Just to back up the whos funding the websites and info out there, Roche spent a very large amount of money on a dinner for doctors. So its little wonder doc's suppot vaccination.

It looks to me like a big game of "You rub my back and I'll rub yours"

reAllytee

23-07-2006, 14:52

Not every doctor can be swayed by a dinner & not every doctor is on the vax bandwagon it isnt a international conspiracy.

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 17:39

Not every doctor can be swayed by a dinner & not every doctor is on the vax bandwagon it isnt a international conspiracy.

Who are you to say its not an international conspiracy? Worse things have discovered!

And the dinner is only what we know...I can't imagine what else is going on!

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 17:43

I don't think that people who are totally anti vaxx or totally pro vaxx can give a balanced answer to this debate.

I'm a non vaxxer but I do see why people vaxx...I just don't understand it:banghead:

And it's very hard to get accross to people who have already made up their mind.:gloomy:

faery

23-07-2006, 17:49

Taking herbal concoctions/tinctures is not without risk as herbs can also be toxic and as there is no substantial research (other then in Chinese med where practitioners go through training similiar to GP's) or testing done on the products that are sold, you can never be sure that you/your child is not going to have reactions to these as well.

....getting on my soapbox for the herbalists.....

maybe taking herbs is "not without risk" but there is research being done on them. there is current "evidence based" research, and decades and decades of empirical research.

research into a drug/herb is incredibly expensive and complex. the companies that have the money to fund the research are not interested in looking into something that can potentially take money away from them. easy to patent a drug, not so easy to patent a herb. also, drug companies don't quite get the concept of whole herb/whole plant. their work looks into individual constituents which is contrary to the whole idea of wholistic medicine, so no wonder they generally have an unfavourable view.

also, there are many practitioners out there who are well qualified both to practice and do research (not just TCM practitioners). you just need to look around for them!

and while you're right in that you can never be sure that your kid won't react to something, I for one, would rather take the gentler natural approach then the one that comes in pill/injection form that comes with a list of side effects as long as my arm:thumbsdown:

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 17:51

I agree with what faery has just said.......:thumbsup:

faery

23-07-2006, 17:54

And the dinner is only what we know...I can't imagine what else is going on!

dinners, cruises, holidays, free pens, hats, shirts, and a random truckload of stuff all bearing the logo and advertisements of certain pharma companies!!:rolleyes:
my dad is a doctor and my dp is in med school so it definately happens!
and i don't think that every doctor is swayed by them, but i think it is insideous marketing and shouldn't happen. it's a bit like mcdonalds using happymeal toys to market to children. they may not like the food but they'll remember where they can get a toy.

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 17:58

dinners, cruises, holidays, free pens, hats, shirts, and a random truckload of stuff all bearing the logo and advertisements of certain pharma companies!!:rolleyes:
my dad is a doctor and my dp is in med school so it definately happens!
and i don't think that every doctor is swayed by them, but i think it is insideous marketing and shouldn't happen. it's a bit like mcdonalds using happymeal toys to market to children. they may not like the food but they'll remember where they can get a toy.

I've seen the pens, stationary etc on the rare occasion that I've seen a doctor, it just makes you want to be sick dosen't it?:barf:Its just so wrong.

OscarTheGrouch

23-07-2006, 18:02

I've seen the pens, stationary etc on the rare occasion that I've seen a doctor, it just makes you want to be sick dosen't it?:barf:Its just so wrong.
Why is it wrong? I have several pharmaceutical company pens, umbrellas, photo frames ....etc.... It doesn't sway me one little bit. If you're offered a free lunch, sure why not take it? So what!! I'm sure many in the medical profession have minds of their own and aren't easily swayed.

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 18:06

Why is it wrong? I have several pharmaceutical company pens, umbrellas, photo frames ....etc.... It doesn't sway me one little bit. If you're offered a free lunch, sure why not take it? So what!! I'm sure many in the medical profession have minds of their own and aren't easily swayed.

Thats the thing! Some people ARE easily swayed! Otherwise the pharma companies would'nt be giving this stuff out. Pharma companies have bigger advertising budgets than maccas! To me, that says alot!

OscarTheGrouch

23-07-2006, 18:09

Thats the thing! Some people ARE easily swayed! Otherwise the pharma companies would'nt be giving this stuff out. Pharma companies have bigger advertising budgets than maccas! To me, that says alot!
Easily swayed, hmmmm, do you have statistics or research to back this up? While of course there are going to be people who are, the majority of us are not!!

mum_2_5

23-07-2006, 18:13

I just automatically did my kids. They never had any reactions to them but I do know some kids that have. I think it just comes down to what the child's little body can handle.

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 18:34

Easily swayed, hmmmm, do you have statistics or research to back this up? While of course there are going to be people who are, the majority of us are not!!

I don't need statistics!:rolleyes: It dosen't matter who you are or where your from, some people can always be bought!

rynosmum

23-07-2006, 18:59

With the same drugs being made by numerous pharma companies the medical reps try to get their companies name remembered when the GP is writing a prescription - conspiracy I think not, a marketing ploy, definitely.

I completely agree. I'm in an industry where we have large expense accounts to entertain our clients or provide them with little toys, tools or knick-knacks bearing our company logo. I have loyal clients that I hardly ever take anywhere. I have clients that I seemingly take out to lunch every month and get no business from.

It's all marketing but at the end of the day, very few people will buy a product if they don't believe in it or if they don't trust the person or organisation selling it.

saqqara

23-07-2006, 19:00

Thats the thing! Some people ARE easily swayed! Otherwise the pharma companies would'nt be giving this stuff out. Pharma companies have bigger advertising budgets than maccas! To me, that says alot!

what on earth does that have to do with vaccination anyhow? Do you think that the World Health Organisation advocates vaccination because someone gave them a pen? :rolleyes:

Bron

23-07-2006, 19:05

AppleBlossym

23-07-2006, 19:36

[text deleted by moderator] And it's quite a bit more than pens being given away...read back you would see the one post said that holidays are up for offer

shed

23-07-2006, 19:54

I came to the conclusion slowly, bit by bit, one thing at a time, changed my mind a few times along the way, refined it a bit, asked people, took other's people's opinions who I respect, thought about it.

I read a book called Well Adjusted Babies (or Children?), by I can't remember who, which was enlightening. but the other stuff I read I can't remember. There were several different books and websites, but alot of the information was from the arguments on here, funnily enough. Its amazing what people know on here, and if you wade through the arguing and go and check the references they give you can come to some sort of decision. I also went to an active birth workshop which covered a bit of it but I had already decided a lot by then. DP did his own research and came up with the same decision as me. I don't know where he got the info.

Sorry, not much practical help - just saying how the process worked for me.

At my first midi appointment I signed the form for Vit K and Hep B because they told me to. have since un-signed these forms. The rest of the vaxes will be delayed minus rubella and chicken pox which are off the list. I just decided that for myself from personal experience.

faery

24-07-2006, 10:21

ummmm......just a thought:
there are different rules re: advertising to docs in australia than there are in canada or the US. in n.america it is full on, whereas here there are laws limiting the influence companies have both on students and practitioners. so from a n.american perspective it is much easier to be REALLY cynical about docs being "bought".

and also, lets face it, not everyone is that well informed. (i'm talking docs here) they get bombarded with pro-vax propaganda during their training, with no education for the other side of the issue. that is something they would have to do on their own, and they are generally too damn busy to bother. (not blaming them it is tough study!) so they get our of med school and know that vax=good for kid and public health, and generally toe the line. so then it's up to parents to look into the issue and more often than not, end up fighting the doctor over it. We look at doctors as having the knowledge and to help us make decisions, but they don't always have all the info. so off to the internet we go.

aijent i'm really interested in your thoughts on herbs.....like not wanting to take foxglove (and i'm not even sure if you can get foxglove but anyway...). is it the quality of the practitioner that concerns you or the quality of the product?? it is something i am reallly interested in:yes:

as far as vax info goes, we read the gov't info, the stuff from AVN, glanced through studies, also read "well adjusted babies". but our decision not to vax came more from a gut feeling of it being wrong (for us and our bub), and from our experience in nat. health.

saying that, we decided to have vit K injection at birth as it was a long hard labour and ds had a tough time getting out and a tough time breathing. it was the hardest thing for me as every part of me was against it, but decided it was the best thing to do. the midwives knew of my anti-vax decision and were supportive but really thought vit k should be done based on the birth. so you never know when your beliefs will be challenged.

shed

24-07-2006, 10:32

I agree faery, you need to keep an open mind and be willing to change your decision as the circumstances arise.

That's what we are planning on doing. Making a decision and then taking things as they come and changing our minds if we feel its best. Its the only way really. :thumbsup:

AppleBlossym

24-07-2006, 11:10

reAllytee

24-07-2006, 11:42

Of course many of us are going to be passionate about whichever "side" we are on or what our opinions/beliefs are but there is a way about which we can post that doesnt talk down to others or come across as being judgemental of others parenting skills.
Mods have a job to do its as simple as that.

AppleBlossym

24-07-2006, 11:44

Errr i think you will find the post you just made is why they are "overkeen" your being rude.

Well I'm not trying to be rude, but just trying to get my point accross, and this is the way I do it, no apologies from me:)

rynosmum

24-07-2006, 11:48

Just wanted to point out that some of my posts have been deleted by an "overkeen" moderator, so there is not much point in me continuing in this thread.

To the mod: It's only an opinion, and not against the guidelines!:rolleyes:

I would be the overkeen moderator you refer to. I deleted your post as it referred to another post (by another member) which had been deleted due to it's argumentative nature.

Your post was not against the guidelines but made little sense when the post it referred to no longer existed.

reAllytee

24-07-2006, 11:50

Thats great AB so now i think we shall go back to the OP & see whether anyone has anything else to add as well as highlighting the last point

We all know that the immunisation decision is HARD! I have decided not to get my daughter's 8 week jabs and she also didn't get Hep B at birth. But meanwhile, I am in the process of deciding what vax's she will get and when, since I am not sure I'm going to be a complete non-vaxer but I will definitely be a selective vaxer (and obviously plan to delay them).

For all of you who did lots of research into vaccination, can you PLEASE tell me where you got your information? Is there a good medical database that provides actual journal articles, instead of people's interpretation of those studies? I HATE how biased all the information is and want to get my hands on some facts.

Lots of people say they did their research, but unfortunately, not many people are forthcoming with where they looked for information.

NOTE: Please don't hijack this thread with your personal views on how important you think vax is, and how irresponsible you think non-vaxers are. I want some help with finding good sources of information to help with the decision. Thanks.

rynosmum

24-07-2006, 11:51

...I have been very impressed that this thread has not gone downhill with people trying to "change" others choices but rather a sharing of what we know and where we found it. Hopefully from sharing we will alter/rethink our opinions and practises on a lot of issues related to health.

I completely agree. Let's go back to the OP's original question rather than arguments amongst ourselves. Lets keep this thread open as there is a lot of useful information here.

So, back to topic, where did you get your information on choosing whether to vax or not ?

AppleBlossym

24-07-2006, 11:53

Thats great AB so now i think we shall go back to the OP & see whether anyone has anything else to add as well as highlighting the last point

Back at ya:laughing:

p4purple

24-07-2006, 11:57

And let's remember, pharmaceutical companies produce many many products, not just vaccines. In fact, I'd be prepared to bet that they make much more money out of their lifestyle drugs (like viagra) than they do out of immunisations.

Its called the Immunise Australia Program for a reason.... the intention is to get every Australian child innoclated. The gov't underwrites it at a huge expense. How much you wana bet now Bron...cause I am sure that viagra and other "lifestyle drugs" would not be used on that kind of scale at all. I am prepared to bet that Viagra is'nt even as commonly used as behavioural and ADD type drugs such as ritalin.

Here's a little story that my Mum recently relayed to me.... I have to be vague with some details for obvious reasons. My Mum works as a clinical nurse specialist in drug and alcohol regab and in recent months the schedule for a particular anxiety medication has recently been changed across the whole of a particular Sydney area. My mum is well respected by the doctor that heads up that department and he is seen as a world wide leader on drug withdrawls and rehab. When she asked him directly why the medication was being changed, the doctor replied "You have worked here for ten years, you know me and I trust you, I'll be straight with you - The rep had big boobs, a short skirt on and took me to lunch at ........"

No word of a lie.

AppleBlossym

24-07-2006, 11:57

Ok Ok , I got my info mostly of the net and from a afew books (local library has heaps) and heaps of info from likeminded friends:)

I will list the books when I have a chance and if you google you should find TONS of info!

p4purple

24-07-2006, 12:01

Sorry to repost old info but I copied and pasted this from a previous thread on a similar topic:

I am pregnant with my first child and I am very seriously thinking about being a non-vaxer. I know that for sure there will be no jabs at birth. I have been researching with gusto so as to be well informed. This thread has bought up so many interesting issues:

- To vax or not to vax and if so when
- What are the possible adverse reactions and side effects from vaccines to watch out for
- Why are we as a society into mass vaccinations and is it fulled by big business and pharmacetical companies
- How as parents do we deal with the objections from other parents and professionals such as doctors and nurses, schools and day care and conscientious objection forms
- What are the natural alternatives to vaccination and how can we buildup our childs natural immune system to cope with childhood diseases

I have read an excellent book that covers alot of the above issues: WELL ADJUSTED BABIES by Dr Jennifer Barham-Floreani

The following websites are also supportive of non-vaxers:

http://thinktwice.com/

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/

http://www.avn.org.au/

You can not research comprehensively without looking at the FOR argument because with pros come cons...I must point out that this is a gov't website:

www.immunise.health.gov.au/faq.htm

Some other points that I would like to raise -
- Some of the adverse reactions come not from the disease but from the preservative in the Vaccine. Additives include: Formaldehyde, Mecury, Aluminium, animal viruses (chickens, monkeys, rats and cows), genetically modified animal and plant cells, aborted human foetus cells and antibiotics. Why are we jabbing our kids with over 2000 times the 'safe limit' of mecury before they are 2 years old?
- There is no national data base in Australia that reports adverse reactions to vaccines
- Is the rise in child hood alergies, neurological disorders such as ADHD or autism attributed to the increase in vaccinations? (currently 1 in 100 Aust. children is falling with in the autism spectrum compared with 1 in 10 000 only 15 years ago)
- If they told us that asbestos and Thalidomide was safe, how can we trust that vaccines are?
- How do we cope with the guilt of not vaccinating when our child contracts a disease like the measels or whooping cough? Are they building natural immunity or are we inflicting needless pain onto them because of our own beliefs? How can we develop our own confidence and surround ourself with supportive care givers?
- In the USA the federal govt has paid out to the National Vacine Injury Compensation Program over $834 million to parents and families of vaccine injured children and those who have died. Japan discontinued compulsory vac's in 1994 after the gov't saw the potential for disaster with liability for compensation. That is why in Aust, our govt will never make them compulsory.

Sorry for the length post ... as a mum to be I have so many questions to ask and they usually only bring up more questions. Thankgod for this supportive thread. It is a very emotive subject to bring up with friends or family and I have decided in the future to shaft that convo and have faith in my own beliefs.

OscarTheGrouch

24-07-2006, 14:22

I have vaccinated my child and have no doubts about my choice to do so. I did little research as I work in the health field so have a wealth of knowledge (pros and cons) there anyway. My DS has experienced no side effects post vaccination whatsoever. It's a big decision, along the big lists of decisions parents are faced with today.:confused: Good luck in your decision Cosmic, it will be the right one for your baby.:fingerscrossed:

faery

24-07-2006, 17:13

just one more off topic.....

cool aijent! i was a bit worried that some dodgy practitioner had given u foxglove:eek: cause i checked with my dp herbalist and it is a scheduled herb. have yet to check out any pubs in my new neighbourhood (that baby thing)!!

back on topic.....

it is a shame that medical databases/journals where you can read whole studies, and see who wrote it, who sponsored it, who is going to benefit, are generally not open to the public. even more of a shame that companies have the power to publish/not publish studies depending on the outcomes. makes it hard to believe anything you read!

bnatural

25-07-2006, 16:24

It gives a false sense of security and, in doing so opens the door to all kinds of illnesses. Vaccination encourages medical dependance and reinforces belief in the inefficiency of the body.

Doesn't anyone want to comment on this particular comment I posted a while back? ...let me repeat again.. reinforces belief in the inefficiency of the body.

Perhaps what needs to be researched more by everyone is how the body works how efficient our immune systems are .. how capable we are of fighting disease....There may be side effects, deaths but there are reasons for this - if you have a strong system you are more able to fight it. Statistics are not low considering how many vaccinations are done! We are given false information to believe so.. there's always an excuse to deter people away from the problems of the vaccine, they are never immediate, they may arise later in life, or blamed on the foods we eat, lifestyes, genetics.. the list goes on. We are told a number of lies, we live in a corrupt world of greed and power..we are merely the herds to be controlled by the elite ..People don't come out and tell the truth or start a revolution against issues such as this because they'll lose their jobs, their status in society, people have disappeared, had visits by the CIA, had their families threatened.

Personally I think the sooner we start having faith in our bodies, take our personal power back, and stop relying on so much medical intervention (not to say I don't think some of it is vital) then we can really start to enjoy our freedom. I don't know about you all but I'm also pretty sick of going to the supermarket and on every label there are toxins and preservatives..if you are one to think that we are being looked after everything is in our best interests.. think again? It seems to me to all go back to profits.
People don't come out and tell the truth or start a revolution against issues such as this because they'll lose their jobs, their status in society, people have 'disappeared' ..

anyway i know that some of this may get 'edited' and most of you won't agree with what I have said but this is my personal opinion. I trust you are old enough to make of it what you will. :kiss:

reAllytee

25-07-2006, 16:33