How to get 15 month old to sleep alone? Please advise!

[tiggermamma]

Hi, please some advice... I posted this in general but realised it was the wrong place, I hope someone who has been here reads this!!!

In preparation for my next baby being born in a couple of months (29 weeks pregnant!) I have been trying to get my 15 month old to sleep on his own.

I used to lie down with him on his double bed mattress on the floor. Now I am so pregnant it is impossible to get up and he has to be more independent and learn to sleep by himself.

(I started by talking to him, I did sleep talk to prepare his subconscious, I moved away by degrees and just meditated next to his bed. I cleansed his room for protection, I did hypnotherapy count downs to help his body relax so he understands on some level what we are aiming for... I am trying to be sensitive to his fears!)

He was hysterical the other night and crawled all over me so I just had to leave the room after two hours of screaming in the dark. I was about to fall asleep myself and I didn't want that to happen again.

So last night he basically cried ALL night sleeping for 40 mins then waking for two or three hours and screaming till hubby and I ended up sleeping a few hours with him in turn.

So, what to do? I felt terrible this morning, he had actually lost weight and had huge bags under his eyes by morning. :no:

Is this the right way to do it? I need him to be calmer being alone, I simply won't be able to help him all the time when I have the next one.

I start the evening by bath, stories, relaxing hot milk, singing in the dark, then quiet together, then leaving. I go back after five, then ten, then 20 mins etc. until he sleeps. Then he sleeps till midnight then it's on for young and old.

I feel rotten, please how long will this go on if it is the right thing? It has been four nights now.

Thank you for any advice, getting pretty distressed about this seeing it's effect on him but trying to be sensible long term...


:flowerz:
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[Mrs Nietzsche]

How awful. I am going through something a bit similar. I was co-sleeping with DS, now he is in the cot which is pushed up against the bed, so he is right next to me but can't get to the baby. He is 15 mths and the baby is 2 weeks.

He has always been fed to sleep, I tried to stop this but it was too stressful so I am feeidng him to sleep then transferring to cot. Luckily the baby is a very settled baby and so far this is working.

Could you use a cot?

[Areca]

Could you get your DH to lie down with him. It sounds like he is really stressed about sleeping on his own. You still have a few weeks to get him used to sleeping on his own, no need to stress everyone out and do it all in one day.
When he's asleep, your Dh could then come out and sleep in his own bed, going back in and re-assuring him and lying down with him again when he wakes. As your DS confidence grows he should start to need you or your DH less and less.
If he's really not ready, what about getting a single bed in your room and letting him sleep in there. That way he is with you but his own space too.

[2sweetgals]

It sounds like he's feeling really unsettled. I really believe that young children know alot more than we give them credit for, I think he can sense that things are changing & he's unsure where it leaves him. I noticed my DD1 was way clingier when I was pregnant. So I guess you need to reassure him as much as you can that you will always attend to his needs.

When we moved DD1 from her cot to toddler bed at around 18mo, she was unhappy with it & quite angry. It took a while of cuddling her while she cried, sometimes 3 or 4 times in a night. She gradually stopped crying but kept the cuddles, then wanted fewer & shorter cuddles.
I hope you can find something that works for you all.

[tiggermamma]

Thanks ladies,

I think he's too big for a cot Maire, he's physically developed tall and he's agile. Also I don't think he will appreciate being cooped up as he is quite old to get into a cot now, but I am glad it is working for you.

Doubleace, I think your suggestion is a good one, though I have to say my concern is that my DH has sleep apnia and his snoring is really deafening, I worry about DS getting some hearing loss if it's a constant - I know that sounds mad, but some people can't sleep in the same house as DH!!
However, it may be the way to go for now, I will talk to DH about it, thanks for the idea.

2sweetgals, I have hope eventually he will settle like your daughter did, I know he is upset as I am pregnant, you are right. He feels me becoming more distant as I am a bit braindead while pregnant (growing a person is hard work!) and am not as able to give attention like my girlfriends at mother's group. The loud possums in our roof don't help with their demonic hissing and screaming either let me tell you.

I really appreciate your taking time to answer this, I will think about what you have all said. :thumbsup:

[overitand36]

i would be looking at a sleep school some do home visits

you would then also have some support when his crying starts to upset you and be able to keep you on track

some methods are not the kindest but they will work with you and find the best method for you

and let you get some sleep before the baby is here, could also provide you with some techniques for the baby

as unfair as it maybe he is going to have to learn to be alone you know that the baby will take up a lot of your time and you all cannot continue the way he is

[tiggermamma]

After researching more it seems to be a bit of being 'in the now' rather than forwarding to the future with the next baby might be appropriate. :chillpill: I don't like that my son is so upset, he isn't as happy in the morning, he seems stressed.

So I don't know if anyone else would do this, but I will continue co sleeping when he wakes and cries as he seems too distressed to sleep alone. Life is too short to spend it with upset for me and him.:valentine: Hubb will deal I am sure. He has slept with him the last two nights to give me a break, but is going away for a week, so back to square one there!

Thanks for the contributions ladies, if anyone has any more bright ideas let me know. I just discovered http://www.pinkymckay.com.au/ this and will make a booking if it doesn't work for us so I can talk to someone about this situation.
:thumbsup:

[2girls&1angelboy]

both of my dd co-slept not at the same time but when they were littler, anyway we brought them new bed dd2 was almost 16months and she hated being in her own bed i started by laying beside her just laying then 2 nights later i moved to the end of her bed then another 2 nights later i moved to the floor next to her bed where i stayed like that for about a weeks very slowly moving towards the door and when she was almost asleep i would leave and not b4 she went to sleep i would keep comming to the bedroom door every 2-5mins so she would know i was still here. and now she is almost 20 months and i now put her to bed say goodnight give her a kiss and cuddle and walk out and she goes to sleep a couple of time she will be upset but its no more than 2 mins max
i wish u luck and hope u find a way that works for you just thought i would share my experience :)

[tiggermamma]

Thanks for sharing. Another factor making me change tactics is simply that my son now has developed a weird game.

He goes to his room closes the door and though he can open the door, sits on his bed and just cries, like he would at night. It seems he is role playing the situation to make it more under his control (it's daylight, he can leave by choice). But unless I come to see him, he will stay crying there. Is that not strange?:no:

I will make it work somehow - I am a stay at home mum, so if I don't have time, who does?!:goodvibes:

[overitand36]

tiggermamma - please remember it only becomes a game when you play

I know its hard but ignore it, it will then become boring he will be more interested in what you are doing outside the bedroom and want to come out and see what is going on

have you had a chance to get him out of the cot into a bed yet the co sleeping is just delaying the problem and really just making you feel better

[tiggermamma]

tiggermamma - please remember it only becomes a game when you play

I know its hard but ignore it, it will then become boring he will be more interested in what you are doing outside the bedroom and want to come out and see what is going on

have you had a chance to get him out of the cot into a bed yet the co sleeping is just delaying the problem and really just making you feel better

That is your opinion!

Co sleeping is making us BOTH feel better. Sure he will have to get used sleeping alone eventually and will suffer all sorts of travails in life, he just doesn't have to do it this month when separation anxiety is at it's peak and his developing brain is acutely susceptible to stress. Also - to quote an expert - "if you are moving to the next stage of helping your child get to sleep by himself he will probably need to be close to three years or older before this will work" (See website quoted above).

I have been reading a great deal on the neural development of small children and while there is a big chance that distress will harm his ability to make good neural connections that help him self-regulate anxiety levels, 'delaying the problem' as you say on the other hand, is something that actually might be of benefit to him!

Pinky McKay gives examples of children within this age-group becoming very withdrawn, stopping talking and so forth when forced to sleep alone and while she says that you can force a child to sleep alone eventually, the trade off is that the damage done can last a long time and make for an anxious child. Personally, that is not for me.

My wish for him to be able to self-regulate his sleeping is only so that he will be happier, it has less to do with my own needs. I don't have a 'problem' with my son's sleeping patterns, I just want what is best for him at his stage of development.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

Tiggermamma just be aware that you need to do the right thing for your new baby as well and you also need to be getting enough sleep to be able to look after both children - you will all probably need to compromise a little.

I had to leave DS crying in the cot for half an hour last night while I fed the baby in the middle of the night (he is in cot lined up against the bed) - if he is out he will not leave her alone - and that is just the way it has to be - it did not kill him and he was absolutely happy as larry this morning. I think if children were not resilient enough to be able to cope with not getting their needs met asap then the human race would have ground to a halt millenia ago.

I hope it works out really well for you but just be careful that if you don't make any changes now, you will be *forced* to make them later and also that you need to be mentally coping yourself.

eta - I guess I just wonder if this would be easier for DS if I had tried to get him sleeping a bit mroe independently *before* the baby was born

[tiggermamma]

Tiggermamma just be aware that you need to do the right thing for your new baby as well and you also need to be getting enough sleep to be able to look after both children - you will all probably need to compromise a little.

eta - I guess I just wonder if this would be easier for DS if I had tried to get him sleeping a bit mroe independently *before* the baby was born

Thanks for the voice of experience Maire! I so want to make a clear space for #2 which is why I started this process with DS #1... I feel I am doing the right thing by taking the path of least resistance for now... but I do foresee days and nights a bit like you describe being inevitable for us too.

At least bringing this into the light has made DH and I discuss what we want as a family and how we will handle it together and he is on board with co-sleeping after midnight with DS #1 in DS's own room for a while.

At least when he won't be getting used to getting in my bed with me. DS has his own double mattress to share with his dad. Now to sort out DH's snoring if possible!!!;)

[Bubmum]

I would be getting your DH to pick up the slack..and just accept that when baby comes along...you are going to hae a couple of months of chaos.
I think if you do the "hard yards" now, they are all going to be undone when bubby comes along anyway. Your ds is going to be challenged enough anyway with having to share you, without adding the burden of forcing him to sleep independently (I am only saying this, as I am picking up on your OP that you aren't the kind of Mum that would take too kindly to controlled crying). Just let it be. Enjoy these moments with your DS before bubby comes along.
Only do what you feel comfortable with. Aim to keep DS having the same sleep time. In time (and I know you are running out of time), he will sleep on his own. It will happen. There are no o/nite miracles. Just consistency, and reassurance that you are there.
I often ponder what I would do in the same situation...DD is 15 months, still fed to sleep, and I hope to be TTC #2 in the New Year. I'll be coming to you for tips. :D

[2sweetgals]

You seem really in touch with your son's emotions, Tiggermama :) When you think that we are one of the few cultures (and species) that do not co-sleep, it seems a bit crazy to force childrens' independence before they are ready.

Yes, it will be a challenge when #2 comes along, regardless of where DS sleeps. You will have to live with less sleep, you will have moments when you wonder why you are in this situation...but you will also have 2 children who are confident in you & your love. :cloud9:

As long as you are all getting sleep, I say indulge him (and yourself), you will never get this time back, with him as you one & only baby. And you are so right ~ focus on the now, it is the only thing that really matters.

[tiggermamma]

Hi Bubmum and 2sweetgals thanks for the support, it has been really intense trying to feel my way round this issue, there are so many assumptions about what we 'should' do, from others and ourselves too... I didn't think I was the type of mum (whatever that is) who would co-sleep until I was in the situation myself and evaluated my reactions, DH's and DS#1's too.

I learned a lot about the development of the brain this week and was very surprised at how undeveloped we humans are till so very late in age!

At any rate I am just so happy that I have a course of action, that I more relaxed about just enjoying the interaction between my lil' pup and I. On waking to a new day together and his big smile at seeing me first thing and just relaxing and giggling - instead of running out of the room crying first thing in the morning. What a difference! He is calmer throughout the day and I actually get more sleep as he sleeps in a bit later too.

One never expects to get loads of sleep with a newborn and a toddler in the house, but I am hoping that the new baby and my DS will be :hugs: good together and will deal with what ever eventuates with DH's help.

:baby: In the meantime I will get my DS a little baby doll to take care of and learn to be gentle with so he isn't in shock when I get my own baby too!

[Mrs Nietzsche]

A little baby doll is a great idea. When I was rocking the baby yesterday DS was rocking the phone and tapping its 'back' lol and saying 'ohh baby, baybeeee' so I think he would love a doll.

DS coslept with DH for a bit after the baby was born but it didn't work too well for longterm as DH gets up at 3.30am

I think you may be surprised at how it works out. I have always been paranoid about making DS feel jealous/ usurped by the baby... but last night I had to put him into the cot awake becaue the baby was hungry (I usually feed him to sleep then transfer to cot) and he said 'ohh baby dont cry' and just laid there and dropped off by himself without crying at all. He seems to actually accept it when he seems I am taking care of the baby more than if I am not attending him for some other reason if that makes sense (rather than getting jealous)

I think alot depends on what kind of baby it is unfortunately, you just can't plan for everything.

THe process of getting DS into a cot has been *very* gentle and slow but it has worked and he seems happy... I think change is possible without it upsetting anyone

[tiggermamma]

That's a cool DS you have Maire, how incredibly cute telling the little one not to cry!!!! Cuuuuute. :)

The maternal health care nurse told me kids tend to be more fascinated rather than jealous depending on the age difference, so I have fingers crossed it will be the former in our case.

Actually I am really interested in how you are finding it all day to day, if you have time post a little on how it's working out for you with two littlies?
A 3.30am start would pretty much make helping you impossible in terms of sleep in terms of your DH so you have a lot on your hands. But you sound like you are understanding and on top of things too. A girlfriend told me her daughter changes nappies on her baby and she is only 15 months old and my friend said that she used the baby doll to teach her daughter to be gentle and so forth and to give her something to do when her friend's newborns were around and said it helped a lot in getting her to understand...

Would love to hear how your DS reacts to having his own baby doll!

Good luck with everything. :flowerz:

[Mrs Nietzsche]

Hello tiggermamma. Well there have been some really hard times. I know this sounds awful and I am sure this isn't the same for everyone but I think I have found it a bit less tense since DH has gone back to work... just because I find it easier knowing exactly what is happening for everyone, DS's routine, etc - DH would often do things like take him for a walk at 6.30pm and he would have a power nap and then not sleep til 11pm, etc... The hardest thing by far has been simply trying to feed the baby without DS trying to hug/squash/'pat' her.

I think a good idea is to have a few places in the house where you can sit without the younger child being able to get to *too* easily and have some toys there for quick distraction, like a book or blocks or whatever.

It is also difficult when I am getting DS to bed and the baby gets hungry at that moment and start crying. Having two crying babies is really tough. My worst moments are definitely trying to breastfeed a newborn with a determined toddler trying to get into my lap, both of them crying.

DS tries to be gentle... he will gently stroke the baby but then all of a sudden he will start doing it far too hard. Last night he was kissing her leg when suddenly he bit her. I guess he just gets over-excited. So I have to watch him at all times.

It has not worked out too badly with bed-times but that is largely because the baby is very placid and patient. She is 3.5 weeks now and DS has caught on to story, boob, then into cot,even if he isn't asleep yet. I started doing this when he was almost totally asleep, and he would still cry a bit but be too tired to cry much, but now he seems happy about it. I am only a foot or so away of course, on the other side of the cot wall though.

Depressing moments have also been when either one of them wakes each other up at night... I am on top of the world today as *both* slept through the night - first time for DS ever really. I have to say that I think him getting used to not getting to much help to sleep and stay asleep has helped him get a better sleep... he is settling himself.

I hope it all works out for you.... honestly, don't let it get on top of you for the first few weeks. Things will become clear and you will work out ways to get things done and not be forced to turn into a horrible mean parent or anything like that...

[tiggermamma]

Thanks for taking the time to write that Maire, I am totally going to get some toy areas set up next to breastfeeding areas. DS loves books so I think a library in every room!!! You have some great tips there. I can imagine how nerve grating it would be to have two crying babys on your lap, :no: full on! I think TV is going to be on a little bit too which I try to avoid currently.

My mother in law will be coming to help for a few weeks, though I imagine I will feel like you when your DH is around! I will get her and DH to feed me and go shopping and leave me alone a bit with both kids;), too much energy in house can be exhausting I reckon. At least this time I won't be distressed by her telling me I am 'breastfeeding wrong', as I will just tell her to back off as I know what I am doing now.

I hope I have a placid #2 like yourself and they get along. I kind of can't believe you even had time to write this, thanks so much for getting online and giving advice in the thick of it!:thumbsup: