Mum charged for allowing partner to smack son with wooden spoon

[WorkingClassMum]

A Victorian mother of-three was charged with assault for allowing her partner to smack her 12-year-old son with a wooden spoon.
It follows another case in Victoria last week where a women was warned she would be charged with assualt after she disciplined her child with a wooden spoon.
Ninemsn has since learnt police took a 33-year-old Craigieburn woman to court over the discipline of her child.
The woman and her partner, who she married in March this year, faced Broadmeadows Magistrates' Court last Wednesday over the October 19, 2008 incident.
Police documents obtained by ninemsn show the woman was charged with intentionally causing injury, recklessly causing injury, unlawful assault and assault with a weapon.
Her partner was charged with intentionally causing injury, recklessly causing injury, aggravated assault, unlawful assault and assault with an instrument.
The woman, who cannot be identified, told ninemsn her son was punished because he became angry after not getting an Xbox 360 during a shopping trip.
"He was back-chatting, bossing his brothers — who are two and five — around and shoving them as well as telling us what to do," she said.
The woman said she asked her partner to "get the wooden spoon and smack him".
The woman said he hit the boy on his left arm — the first time the spoon had been used to hit someone — and that there was only a red mark left behind.
"That was about 11am and when I went to take him lunch at about 12.30 he was gone — he’d jumped out the window," the woman told ninemsn.
The boy had fled to his grandmother’s house where he stayed for nine weeks. Police were notified of the incident by the grandmother.
The woman's partner was charged on December 20, 2008 while she was charged June 26 this year — six months later.
The woman said the boy's grandmother — her mother — kept pushing for police intervention and that is why she was charged so long after the incident.
Ninemsn contacted the constable involved in the case at Kyneton police station but she said could not comment on the case.
Police dropped both charges of recklessly causing injury when the mother and her husband attended a court diversion hearing last Wednesday at the Broadmeadows Magistrates' Court.
The couple did not enter a plea for the remainder of the charges and were ordered to attend a parenting course as recommended in the diversion order.
They were also instructed to donate $200 to VACRO — the Victorian Association For The Care and Resettlement Of Offenders, and to write a letter of appreciation to the police officer involved in the case.
The woman said she was visited by officers from the Department of Human Services (DHS), who inspected the home and provided her with a number if she needed help.
The department said it could not provide ninemsn with details of their investigation.
"If [the department is] notified by neighbours, teachers or police that there could be some child protection issues in a family, [we] usually go and check and see what's going on," DHS spokesman Paul Heinrichs said.
"When ... somebody might be concerned, [the department] goes along and checks and they can either sort [any problems] out on the spot or, if there's a parenting issue, refer people to the various family agencies."
The mother said the incident had distressed her and she now did not know where to turn because her son, who she was "once very close to", constantly used the assault charge against her.
"He knows we can’t do anything to him; we can’t touch him, technically we're not even allowed to take his belongings off him, toys, things like that," she said.
"I'm so frustrated, upset, angry, every emotion rolled into one — we were close and now our relationship isn’t not the same.
"He knows he can boss me around and do whatever he wants."
Last week another Victorian mother was warned by authorities after hitting her nine-year-old daughter with a wooden spoon.
Claire Davidson was told she risked an assault-with-a-weapon charge after her child told classmates at Yea Public School she had been hit with a spoon.
A support worker from the school contacted police, who then told Ms Davidson she would be charged if her daughter reported being hit with the spoon again.
The incident has divided Australia, with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd saying he approved of children being physically disciplined.
Ninemsn was flooded with over 1200 responses on the issue with some saying the decision to hit a child was a parent’s choice and others saying smacking was an out-dated way of punishing unruly kids.



NINEMSN LINK (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/877868/mum-charged-over-sons-wooden-spoon-smack)

Without re-ignating the smacking debate - cos the problem here is THE WOODEN SPOON being used, not the smacking itself.

I feel sympathy with this family due to the highlighted section - they urgently need help!

[CookiesRYum]

Without getting into the debate again - I think it is a step in the right direction.

I do however think educating parenting would be a better way to make change rather then dragging them through the courts - a costly experience for all involved!

I guess it's normal for the police/governement to make examples of ppl to deter other ppl - but I am sure the mother didn't realise she was committing a crime at the time.. and sadly the kid still got hit.

[PeppaH]

So... Your not allowed to take toys away etc as a punishment??? Is that what she meant?

[Rebdot]

I use to get smacked with the spoon, egg flip and a belt,

It didnt really work, we all use to laugh while my dad was doing it, I mean when my parents were out my brother and sister and my bf and I use to chase each other around the house and wack each other with them ( I was 19 mind you :laughing:)

I brought wooden spoons to scare my DD and it worked for a little while but after so much threatening you either have to carry through or abandon it.

In her 6 years I have smacked her once and I felt terrible about it.

Im not against smacking, I just think it didnt work for my brother and sister and I but maybe offering parents on other ways to punish there children could be the way to go?

Parenting is hard and the one time I smacked was out of sheer frustration, With our new child and a new partner it will be interesting to see what my new parenting style is.

[sandy cheeks]

If it's not the childs father I dont think he sould be allowed to smack the child, too many kids have been abused (some killed) by mums new partner.
Heck thats half the reason I wont be with another man seriously because I couldn't trust them not to hurt my kids I have heard too many horrid stepfather stories from friends.
I also dont like the use of objects as smacking devices.

[CookiesRYum]

Also, I don't know if im confused :confused: VERY POSSIBLE but I got the impression they were OUT shopping and the boy misbehaved and then the mother asked the partner to hit the kid?

So what, did she have a wooden spoon in her handbag while they were shopping?

Or did she wait until they got home and then hit him?

Either way - it was hardly a spare of the moment, emotional decision. It was more a calculated response to try to intimated the child and teach him a lesson.

[Whispers]

Well if a child run away for 9 weeks to the grandmothers then he was obviously scared.

I smack my children but I do not agree with having someone else do it or especially with anything other then my hand.

[Whispers]

Also, I don't know if im confused :confused: VERY POSSIBLE but I got the impression they were OUT shopping and the boy misbehaved and then the mother asked the partner to hit the kid?

So what, did she have a wooden spoon in her handbag while they were shopping?

Or did she wait until they got home and then hit him?

Either way - it was hardly a spare of the moment, emotional decision. It was more a calculated response to try to intimated the child and teach him a lesson.

I *think* as this is what I got the impression of that when he got home he was being rude naughty ect; cuz he couldn't get what he wanted, so then was smacked at home.

[Opinionated]

So... Your not allowed to take toys away etc as a punishment??? Is that what she meant?

That's what I don't understand. I will be taking toys off my children. I don't care if it is unlawful. I paid for most of them so they are mine.

[WorkingClassMum]

I don't think the grandmother helped much...

[PeppaH]

That's what I don't understand. I will be taking toys off my children. I don't care if it is unlawful. I paid for most of them so they are mine.

So is that what it means? We arent allowed to conviscate stuff as punishment? Wow I think child care and schools need to catch up on that one before they all get charged :laughing:

[Rebdot]

So is that what it means? We arent allowed to conviscate stuff as punishment? Wow I think child care and schools need to catch up on that one before they all get charged :laughing:


Isnt that what were told to do instead of smacking?

I would take away the telly and one day I was so angry I moved her bed into a room with no toys lol.

What are we expected to do if you cant smack and you cant take toys?

[PeppaH]

Isnt that what were told to do instead of smacking?

I would take away the telly and one day I was so angry I moved her bed into a room with no toys lol.

What are we expected to do if you cant smack and you cant take toys?

Thats what Im confuzzled about.... If we are now been told we arent allowed to take things off them to punish them instead of smacking.... WHAT are me ALLOWED to do these days???
I hope someone can clarify this for me.:confused:

[DanceInTheRain]

How things have changed, I used to get the wooden spoon! Not that I advocate smacking, with or without a wooden spoon, but I think my mum would be horrified it's now considered child abuse as such. It never even used to hurt, and it wasn't often, only when I was really naughty!! But I remember being scared of the good old wooden spoon. Mum got her own back one time though- she threatened me with the spoon and as she did she smacked it against the wall- and it broke it half! I ran off laughing, pretty sure she had a giggle too!

[CrankyAndTired]

Happy to see a parent charged over this. Hitting a child with a wooden spoon isnt acceptable and I think its important for all adults to understand that.

[CookiesRYum]

Happy to see a parent charged over this. Hitting a child with a wooden spoon isnt acceptable and I think its important for all adults to understand that.

:iagree:

[Ana Gram]

In regards to the toy thing, I think that would have been stipulated to this family by DHS, not that every parent must comply with it.

[PeppaH]

In regards to the toy thing, I think that would have been stipulated to this family by DHS, not that every parent must comply with it.

hhmmm Ok guess thats good to know :confused:

[CookiesRYum]

I don't know if the toy thing was literal - the mum said the son is saying that she can't do or he will go the cops again. I didn't get the impression DHS have stipulated anything in regards to that.

[SorenLorensen]

so sad that their relationship as a once close mother and son has now turned upside down......guess when you hit your child (or instruct someone else to) with a object this is what can happen.

sounds like she regrets it and hopefully will never do it again, i hope her son and her can sort things out and get their relationship back on track.



to hit a child with an object is WRONG, many would even say abusive. the main thing i worry about when i hear of it happening is what happens when the wooden spoon no longer works ?? obviously the hand is no longer sufficient so what do they move onto next :gloomy:

[CookiesRYum]

And I still don't think his response to the situation and what OP highlighted in blue is a REASON to allow parents to hit their kids.

Obviously there were a lot of issues in this family before the courts become involved; a don't think you can say his response is a direct result of the action brought against her. And I don't think you can say that hitting the kid would have made him behave.

I mean the mum complained that he was hitting and pushing his younger siblings, and being aggressive. Well what else has she shown him to do when he gets frustrated?

[WorkingClassMum]

And I still don't think his response to the situation and what OP highlighted in blue is a REASON to allow parents to hit their kids.

Obviously there were a lot of issues in this family before the courts become involved; a don't think you can say his response is a direct result of the action brought against her. And I don't think you can say that hitting the kid would have made him behave.

I mean the mum complained that he was hitting and pushing his younger siblings, and being aggressive. Well what else has she shown him to do when he gets frustrated?


I don't advocate using a weapon to punish children - I was highlighting the anguish and untenable situation that the family are now in.

The boy is obviously out of control - the father appears to be absent, the grandmother is not supportive and the family are in breakdown.

Yes - DONT hit the kids with a weapon, but DHS should have put other stategies into play to assist this family

[SorenLorensen]

I don't advocate using a weapon to punish children - I was highlighting the anguish and untenable situation that the family are now in.

The boy is obviously out of control - the father appears to be absent, the grandmother is not supportive and the family are in breakdown.

Yes - DONT hit the kids with a weapon, but DHS should have put other stategies into play to assist this family
i like that you highlighted it :yes:
it pointed out the families now distress over what happened and the now consequences of her laps of judgment.

[Ana Gram]

I don't know if the toy thing was literal - the mum said the son is saying that she can't do or he will go the cops again. I didn't get the impression DHS have stipulated anything in regards to that.

Forgive me, I skimmed. It is not unheard of the DHS stipulates what discipline can be used after the child returns to the home though.

[BazzasMum]

Slightly OT, but our friend's teenage daughter was grounded for something naughty and ended up cutting her wrists and spent a week in hospital.

The social worker basically told her she could do what she liked now as she would always have this power over her parents. Not an ideal situation, and I bet that's what happened to the poor woman in the OP. Not excusing the wooden spoon....

[Pippi Longstocking]

Let me get this straight....the man hit the child, yet the reporter ran the headline "Mum charged for allowing...etc"??! I am astounded. :eek:

If I told my partner to whack the kids with a spoon I would hope that a.) he would have enough respect for them to not do it and b.) that if he did, he would be responsible for the assault. Likewise, if I told him to go hit a stranger, I very much doubt he'd do it and if he did, he would be responsible.

This sort of idiotic reporting makes my blood boil. It's the subtle insinuation that women are always to blame. :rolleyes:

[KatiesMum]

I am guessing that the Mother is to blame because she is the parent in this instance ....

But the article does explain that BOTH the mother and her partner were charged - the Mother for telling him to, and the partner for doing it.

While I dont agree with hitting a 12 yr old with a wooden spoon, I am not going to judge what they did based on a newspaper report either. Who knows what actually happened.

[fugiel]

I moved to Australia 5 years ago from Auckland due to the increasing crime rate back home. I was in the teaching sector for over 15 years and I had witnessed first hand the deterioration of basic values and respect amongst children. Mainly stemming from a bunch of out-of-touch liberalists bent on treating children as adults by showering them with rights before letting the course of education and good parenting skills develop the fundamentals of 'responsibility'.
When growing up, my father (who was the family disciplinarian) had a 3 strike system. He would warn us the first time and conference us on whatever we did wrong. If we stepped out of line again, he would then take away a privilege, such as pocket money etc, but, would also notify us of the consequence involved if we were to repeat the same wrong doing again, which was a strap on each hand. If what we did was very serious, then he would go straight to the third strike.
Now my sister and I have our own families and we refrain from smacking our kids, all the while instilling within them the importance of respect for other people, themselves, property and authority. Her second eldest son started hanging with the wrong crowd at school 4 years ago when he was 11. She conferenced him quite often and went to school on numerous occasions to see his teacher for the increasing acts of undesirable behaviours. After dealing with this for a year and not resorting to smacking him yet, the school suggested that her son see a councellor and that he attended a behavioural correction course. This her son did, but unfortunately it did not yield the desired results. So one day, after the police brought him home because he had broke into a house, his father took to him with a belt. This came as a shock to her son and he did not step out of line again for 3 months. One day while having a casual discussion with his councellor, she asked him why he was not misbehaving anymore and he told her what had happened to him. Later that day, just as my sister's husband pulled up from work there was a police car already parked in the drive and when he walked in the police officer told him whether he was aware of the anti-smacking law that had just been passed. However, they would give him a warning on this instance, but the next time it happened he would be answerable to a judge in court.
After this incident, her son went back to his old ways but on a more extreme level. He had assaulted a teacher, was stealing anything he could get his hands on and running with a gang.
My sister, who had exhausted all efforts and methods of discipline then rang me here in Australia and explained to me what was happening and how her son was on a one-way street to jail. He had also been kicked out of school at the age of 15.
I told her that I would fly over straight away and bring him back to Australia where I could discipline him the only way there was without getting into trouble with the law, as one would if they were in New Zealand.
When I arrived in New Zealand, after trying to track him down because he had run away from home, I coaxed him into thinking that he was coming to the Gold Coast for a holiday and to visit the theme parks.
As soon as we arrived in Australia, and we came straight home, I took off my belt and belted him three times, then sat him down and lectured him about respecting other people, himself, property and authority. I put him back into school, gave him tasks that involved responsibility at home and told him he would earn his rights back one by one. It has been almost a year since he arrived and he has never stepped out of line again and he is doing well at school.
Sometimes, a parent needs to be reserved the right to discipline their children with a smack.
Unfortunately, there are the very few who spoil it for the rest of us by crossing the line where it becomes physical abuse.

[CookiesRYum]

Forgive me, I skimmed. It is not unheard of the DHS stipulates what discipline can be used after the child returns to the home though.

It WASN'T directed at you, just a general response to the discussion about toys. It may be that DHS has said that.. who knows???

[Jennaisme]

Quite a few of the kids I've seen need a good smack, tbh.

I was quite abused as a child. Belted constantly, with and without a wooden spoon, a fireplace poker brush thingy, having my own mother kick the crap out of me.
And I still agree that a good smack is the way to go sometimes.
Quite a few of the local kids I see at the skate park can't be any more than 8 or 9 and I honestly think they need a parent to give them a good boot up the bum, because when it comes down to it, if the parents don't do it, they're going to mouth off/assault someone who isn't gonna take it kindly one day and have the living daylights beaten out of them by the person who isn't so nicely inclined as the parent.
I honestly think that smacking should be used as a last resort, but having the government interfere and place a no smacking law down has just completely buggered it up.
I'm not saying all kids need this, but most of the ones i've seen have, and now with the governments law, it's placed the children in the frame of mind where they can get into anything and the parents can't do a thing about it for fear of persecution by the government/police/other parents and personally, I don't think that's right.

Currently it's the children who hold all the power in the family home, not adults.
All the children need to think is when they don't get their own way, they go to the police and report they were smacked, even if the parent has never smacked them in their entire life.

This post probably doesn't make much sense at all, but the anti smacking laws make me completely furious, especially when some eight or nine year old comes up and starts calling me a little wh*re or throwing rocks at me or DP, or anything like that.

Honestly, where we live, half of the time we live in constant fear of leaving the house, or walking to the shop or the bus stop, because of the kids in the park that we can't do anything about, the police can't do anything about and the parents can't do anything about.

And we have actually called the police after the rock throwing incident. Nothing was done, they were back there the next day.

As another example, these kids light fires in the skate park, and the skate park is right up against the primary school and kindergarten, so what do you do then? Do you let them burn the entire park/school/kindergarten down or do you take them home and give them a good belting for being a firebug?

[Lil Mamma]

I took off my belt and belted him three times, then sat him down and lectured him about respecting other people, himself, property and authority.


Unfortunately, there are the very few who spoil it for the rest of us by crossing the line where it becomes physical abuse.

Sorry, that IS physical abuse.

I fail to see how belting a teenage boy could possibly benefit him, you are scaring him into behaving better rather than addressing the root of the problem. The reckless activities he is engaging in are a sign of deeper issues, if he really is doing it to fit in with the crowd then he has self esteem issues.

I am not anti smacking when it is used as a last resort & the child has been given warnings, but I draw the line at using belts and such objects, it would be incredibly frightening as a child to be on the receiving end of that belt whip.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I moved to Australia 5 years ago from Auckland due to the increasing crime rate back home. I was in the teaching sector for over 15 years and I had witnessed first hand the deterioration of basic values and respect amongst children. Mainly stemming from a bunch of out-of-touch liberalists bent on treating children as adults by showering them with rights before letting the course of education and good parenting skills develop the fundamentals of 'responsibility'.
When growing up, my father (who was the family disciplinarian) had a 3 strike system. He would warn us the first time and conference us on whatever we did wrong. If we stepped out of line again, he would then take away a privilege, such as pocket money etc, but, would also notify us of the consequence involved if we were to repeat the same wrong doing again, which was a strap on each hand. If what we did was very serious, then he would go straight to the third strike.
Now my sister and I have our own families and we refrain from smacking our kids, all the while instilling within them the importance of respect for other people, themselves, property and authority. Her second eldest son started hanging with the wrong crowd at school 4 years ago when he was 11. She conferenced him quite often and went to school on numerous occasions to see his teacher for the increasing acts of undesirable behaviours. After dealing with this for a year and not resorting to smacking him yet, the school suggested that her son see a councellor and that he attended a behavioural correction course. This her son did, but unfortunately it did not yield the desired results. So one day, after the police brought him home because he had broke into a house, his father took to him with a belt. This came as a shock to her son and he did not step out of line again for 3 months. One day while having a casual discussion with his councellor, she asked him why he was not misbehaving anymore and he told her what had happened to him. Later that day, just as my sister's husband pulled up from work there was a police car already parked in the drive and when he walked in the police officer told him whether he was aware of the anti-smacking law that had just been passed. However, they would give him a warning on this instance, but the next time it happened he would be answerable to a judge in court.
After this incident, her son went back to his old ways but on a more extreme level. He had assaulted a teacher, was stealing anything he could get his hands on and running with a gang.
My sister, who had exhausted all efforts and methods of discipline then rang me here in Australia and explained to me what was happening and how her son was on a one-way street to jail. He had also been kicked out of school at the age of 15.
I told her that I would fly over straight away and bring him back to Australia where I could discipline him the only way there was without getting into trouble with the law, as one would if they were in New Zealand.
When I arrived in New Zealand, after trying to track him down because he had run away from home, I coaxed him into thinking that he was coming to the Gold Coast for a holiday and to visit the theme parks.
As soon as we arrived in Australia, and we came straight home, I took off my belt and belted him three times, then sat him down and lectured him about respecting other people, himself, property and authority. I put him back into school, gave him tasks that involved responsibility at home and told him he would earn his rights back one by one. It has been almost a year since he arrived and he has never stepped out of line again and he is doing well at school.
Sometimes, a parent needs to be reserved the right to discipline their children with a smack.
Unfortunately, there are the very few who spoil it for the rest of us by crossing the line where it becomes physical abuse.
What you did was illegal, and wrong.

I disagree with everything you have written.


Quite a few of the kids I've seen need a good smack, tbh.

I was quite abused as a child. Belted constantly, with and without a wooden spoon, a fireplace poker brush thingy, having my own mother kick the crap out of me.
And I still agree that a good smack is the way to go sometimes.?

I think quite a few of the kids you have seen may have needed direction and attention.

If smacking is the answer why did your mother have to keep doing it to you?



Quite a few of the local kids I see at the skate park can't be any more than 8 or 9 and I honestly think they need a parent to give them a good boot up the bum, because when it comes down to it, if the parents don't do it, they're going to mouth off/assault someone who isn't gonna take it kindly one day and have the living daylights beaten out of them by the person who isn't so nicely inclined as the parent.?
Perhaps they need a parent to guide and love them. Usually there is more to it then they just havn't been smakced , in fact you would be suprised by how many "unruley" children have been smakced and belted.



I honestly think that smacking should be used as a last resort, but having the government interfere and place a no smacking law down has just completely buggered it up.?

There is currently no no smacking law, you just can't use impliments or anything other then your hand.

I happen to believe it would benifit society greatly if we had no smacking laws. Other countries where they have implimented them have seen great results.



I'm not saying all kids need this, but most of the ones i've seen have, and now with the governments law, it's placed the children in the frame of mind where they can get into anything and the parents can't do a thing about it for fear of persecution by the government/police/other parents and personally, I don't think that's right.?
My 16 Year old DD doesn't break the law or do whatever she wants and I don't smack her. there are plenty of other ways to have a mutaully respectful relationship with your children, it just takes a lot more hard work then smacking.



Currently it's the children who hold all the power in the family home, not adults.
All the children need to think is when they don't get their own way, they go to the police and report they were smacked, even if the parent has never smacked them in their entire life. ?
:confused:




This post probably doesn't make much sense at all, but the anti smacking laws make me completely furious, especially when some eight or nine year old comes up and starts calling me a little wh*re or throwing rocks at me or DP, or anything like that. ?
Again how do you know what discipline they have recieved, because I have seen many abused and neglected children behave this way, and many of them have been disciplined very severely.




Honestly, where we live, half of the time we live in constant fear of leaving the house, or walking to the shop or the bus stop, because of the kids in the park that we can't do anything about, the police can't do anything about and the parents can't do anything about.
?
Again a very complex issue, not related to smacking IMO.



And we have actually called the police after the rock throwing incident. Nothing was done, they were back there the next day.

As another example, these kids light fires in the skate park, and the skate park is right up against the primary school and kindergarten, so what do you do then? Do you let them burn the entire park/school/kindergarten down or do you take them home and give them a good belting for being a firebug?

No I would suggest that child safety needs to be involved because the children sound neglected.

[PeppaH]

I moved to Australia 5 years ago from Auckland due to the increasing crime rate back home. I was in the teaching sector for over 15 years and I had witnessed first hand the deterioration of basic values and respect amongst children. Mainly stemming from a bunch of out-of-touch liberalists bent on treating children as adults by showering them with rights before letting the course of education and good parenting skills develop the fundamentals of 'responsibility'.
When growing up, my father (who was the family disciplinarian) had a 3 strike system. He would warn us the first time and conference us on whatever we did wrong. If we stepped out of line again, he would then take away a privilege, such as pocket money etc, but, would also notify us of the consequence involved if we were to repeat the same wrong doing again, which was a strap on each hand. If what we did was very serious, then he would go straight to the third strike.
Now my sister and I have our own families and we refrain from smacking our kids, all the while instilling within them the importance of respect for other people, themselves, property and authority. Her second eldest son started hanging with the wrong crowd at school 4 years ago when he was 11. She conferenced him quite often and went to school on numerous occasions to see his teacher for the increasing acts of undesirable behaviours. After dealing with this for a year and not resorting to smacking him yet, the school suggested that her son see a councellor and that he attended a behavioural correction course. This her son did, but unfortunately it did not yield the desired results. So one day, after the police brought him home because he had broke into a house, his father took to him with a belt. This came as a shock to her son and he did not step out of line again for 3 months. One day while having a casual discussion with his councellor, she asked him why he was not misbehaving anymore and he told her what had happened to him. Later that day, just as my sister's husband pulled up from work there was a police car already parked in the drive and when he walked in the police officer told him whether he was aware of the anti-smacking law that had just been passed. However, they would give him a warning on this instance, but the next time it happened he would be answerable to a judge in court.
After this incident, her son went back to his old ways but on a more extreme level. He had assaulted a teacher, was stealing anything he could get his hands on and running with a gang.
My sister, who had exhausted all efforts and methods of discipline then rang me here in Australia and explained to me what was happening and how her son was on a one-way street to jail. He had also been kicked out of school at the age of 15.
I told her that I would fly over straight away and bring him back to Australia where I could discipline him the only way there was without getting into trouble with the law, as one would if they were in New Zealand.
When I arrived in New Zealand, after trying to track him down because he had run away from home, I coaxed him into thinking that he was coming to the Gold Coast for a holiday and to visit the theme parks.
As soon as we arrived in Australia, and we came straight home, I took off my belt and belted him three times, then sat him down and lectured him about respecting other people, himself, property and authority. I put him back into school, gave him tasks that involved responsibility at home and told him he would earn his rights back one by one. It has been almost a year since he arrived and he has never stepped out of line again and he is doing well at school.
Sometimes, a parent needs to be reserved the right to discipline their children with a smack.
Unfortunately, there are the very few who spoil it for the rest of us by crossing the line where it becomes physical abuse.

I say bloody well done :yelclap: Good on you:thumbsup:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I say bloody well done :yelclap: Good on you:thumbsup:
So it's good for people to break the law? But it's not Ok for children to be rebelious?

You can't seriously be supporting someone using a belt?:no: It is illegal.

[PeppaH]

So it's good for people to break the law? But it's not Ok for children to be rebelious?

You can't seriously be supporting someone using a belt?:no: It is illegal.

Well obviously nothign else was working on him. I mean I could be nasty and say something like "Oh well who cares? Just let him get him self killed by doing something stupid or let him get thrown in jail it will serve him right"

I agree that children hold to much power over their parents these days and I find it ridiculaous that if a child/teen/adult becomes a murder/rubber/druggier etc that it reflecs on their upbringing. So I think that as a parent we should be able to disipline them and keep them in line before they go to far.

If you see a horrible child out at the shops or in the playyard or playgroup, that is bullying or pushign other kids and all the parent is doing is "Oh darling dont do that" and the kid keeps doing it etc People think "omg women keep that child in line"... Yet if you pull your child up and yell at them or smack them you are been seen as an abusive parent :confused:

You cant do anything right these days and its really off putting to having more children.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I say bloody well done :yelclap: Good on you:thumbsup:

The child was assaulted with a weapon and you are praising this person?

Fugiel, what you have done here is taken a child out of his home and country against his will to be able to physically abuse him. That's awful. Striking a child with a belt is NOT legal in Australia - you can and should be charged.


Jennaisme, physical punishment is not the only form of discipline. This is purely assumption based on my own personal experience, but I bet that a large number of the kids you were talking about come from homes where smacking is the norm. Smacking them is disrespectful. The insinuation that non-hit kids are out setting fire to parks and throwing rocks at people is way off the mark. I can guarantee that my gently-parented children are not the little thugs you'd have people believe they are. They are awesome, very well-behaved, intelligent, happy, secure little people and I am very proud of them and their behaviour.

Parents that respect their children generally end up with respectful children. Role-modelling respect of people and property is the best way to bring up respectful children, not hitting them into submission. It doesn't mean that children that aren't hit aren't disciplined - it just means that we find ways to teach our children rather than inducing fear-based blind compliance.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Well obviously nothign else was working on him. I mean I could be nasty and say something like "Oh well who cares? Just let him get him self killed by doing something stupid or let him get thrown in jail it will serve him right"
It sounds like he was probably a very troubled young man. Plenty of strategies could have been used - strategies that were respectful and effective rather than whisking him out of the country and abusing him. :(




I agree that children hold to much power over their parents these days

My children don't have power over me.


and I find it ridiculaous that if a child/teen/adult becomes a murder/rubber/druggier etc that it reflecs on their upbringing.

I think upbringing can be really influential so it is worth doing the best job you can. Sometimes though, despite your best efforts, some kids just do go off the rails. Teach them about respect, teach them that they are just as entitled to respect and to respect themselves and you shouldn't have too many problems.


So I think that as a parent we should be able to disipline them and keep them in line before they go to far. I agree - we should be able to discipline them. Discipline means "teach". We can do this by taking the time to explain things, reinforce things, let them have some input into the decision-making process and when suitable, letting them experience the consequences of their actions. Talk to them, tell them why these things matter, build a good, open, trusting, respectful relationship with your children - that's good discipline. Yep, it takes a bit more effort than a quick slap, but the pay off is there once the groundwork is done.


If you see a horrible child out at the shops or in the playyard or playgroup, that is bullying or pushign other kids and all the parent is doing is "Oh darling dont do that" and the kid keeps doing it etc People think "omg women keep that child in line"... Yet if you pull your child up and yell at them or smack them you are been seen as an abusive parent :confused:I wouldn't smakc my child or ignore the behaviour. I would go over to my child, calmly remind them that we don't hit/push/whatever and remove them to another part of the play area. If it happened again, I would repeat the above, but add that if "you need to keep your hands to yourself. If you cannot do that, we will have to leave". If it happened again, we'd leave. The child will more than likely be upset, but at the same time will be learning a valuable lesson, all being taught by a respectful, gentle, calm mum that they can trust.


You cant do anything right these days and its really off putting to having more children.

I'm sorry you feel that you can't do anything right. But trust me, there are other strategies out there, you just have to find them and be open to other ideas.

[BigRedV]

I moved to Australia 5 years ago from Auckland due to the increasing crime rate back home. I was in the teaching sector for over 15 years and I had witnessed first hand the deterioration of basic values and respect amongst children. Mainly stemming from a bunch of out-of-touch liberalists bent on treating children as adults by showering them with rights before letting the course of education and good parenting skills develop the fundamentals of 'responsibility'.

Why shouldn't children be protected against violence?

Good parenting :no:

I bet you wish you could still hit children in your class as well, to sort them out yanno, rather than trying to find out why they are misbehaving in the first place and addressing the issue.


Now my sister and I have our own families and we refrain from smacking our kids, all the while instilling within them the importance of respect for other people, themselves, property and authority. Her second eldest son started hanging with the wrong crowd at school 4 years ago when he was 11. She conferenced him quite often and went to school on numerous occasions to see his teacher for the increasing acts of undesirable behaviours.
After this incident, her son went back to his old ways but on a more extreme level. He had assaulted a teacher, was stealing anything he could get his hands on and running with a gang..
You refrain from smacking your kids :confused: Really?

What about your sister's other children? Seems they didn't need you to come and "rescue" them. Are they still living with your sister? Why is he the only child that needed to be taken from his family? I think all other avenues need to be explored. Unless they're all naughty and you need to go and get all the others as well.



I told her that I would fly over straight away and bring him back to Australia where I could discipline him the only way there was without getting into trouble with the law, as one would if they were in New Zealand.
When I arrived in New Zealand, after trying to track him down because he had run away from home, I coaxed him into thinking that he was coming to the Gold Coast for a holiday and to visit the theme parks.
As soon as we arrived in Australia, and we came straight home, I took off my belt and belted him three times, then sat him down and lectured him about respecting other people, himself, property and authority. I put him back into school, gave him tasks that involved responsibility at home and told him he would earn his rights back one by one. It has been almost a year since he arrived and he has never stepped out of line again and he is doing well at school.

Ummm, it is illegal to belt a child in Australia. Smacking is allowed only with an open hand. Your nephew must really trust you, lying to him about going on holidays and then bashing him with a belt. I am sure he is too scared to breathe in your presence, what a shame :(


Sometimes, a parent needs to be reserved the right to discipline their children with a smack.
Unfortunately, there are the very few who spoil it for the rest of us by crossing the line where it becomes physical abuse.

As I said, a smack is still ALLOWED in Australia, and whislt I don't agree with it, it is still sadly your right, but physical abuse with a belt IS NOT allowed and NOT your right!!! And the "few" who spoil it are just trying to protect children from bullies who condone abusing children with a belt or other "weapons." If it was your sister copping the belt, your perspective would be different.

Shame on you. It disgusts me that you brought your nepwhew all the way to Australia leaving his immediate family behind because you think you are within the law to belt him over here. Quite sickening actually. I feel sorry for him :crying:

[BigRedV]

Quite a few of the kids I've seen need a good smack, tbh.?
How do you know they are not abused a home?


I was quite abused as a child. Belted constantly, with and without a wooden spoon, a fireplace poker brush thingy, having my own mother kick the crap out of me.
And I still agree that a good smack is the way to go sometimes. So tell me how smacking worked then? Clearly it didn't deter you if it happened regularly.


Quite a few of the local kids I see at the skate park can't be any more than 8 or 9 and I honestly think they need a parent to give them a good boot up the bum Where are their parents, obviously not there supervising them. Maybe they would behave differently if they were.



Honestly, where we live, half of the time we live in constant fear of leaving the house, or walking to the shop or the bus stop, because of the kids in the park that we can't do anything about, the police can't do anything about and the parents can't do anything about. Maybe if their parents were supervising them, it would be different. Maybe they don't want to go home for fear of being belted.




As another example, these kids light fires in the skate park, and the skate park is right up against the primary school and kindergarten, so what do you do then? Do you let them burn the entire park/school/kindergarten down or do you take them home and give them a good belting for being a firebug?

:eek: No child ever deserves a belting :no:

My parents never hit me, (ok, my dad hit me once) but we were good kids, all 6 of us. No burning down the skate park or vandalising the area.

People believe that "hitting" is acceptable, which leads to increased violence towards children.

More children are actually abused now than before, so how does that explain your post above?

Whilst comparisons between yearly figures is problematic researchers and workers in the child protection field agree that whilst improved community awareness is leading to more children being reported in recent years, it remains extremely likely that the real numbers of children being abused is increasing. In 2007 there were 309 517 new reports of child abuse and neglect received across Australia. Last year, there were more children living away from their family for their own protection than ever before. The number of children in care has more than doubled in the past decade - increasing from 14,078 in 1997 to 28,441 in 2007.

http://www.stopchildabuse.com.au/pages/know_more/myths_and_realities

Interesting survey, people might learn something by participating.

[Veritas]

:eek::eek::eek:

Violence only ever perpetuates violence.... When will people ever learn..... Some peoples attitudes sicken me to the core....

These are young lives and precious souls we are entrusted with guiding into respectful, intelligent adults.... there is no place for violence in that process....

[SorenLorensen]

parenting a child 101: if you cant smack your kid then here is a tip !!
lie to child, ship child out of county, ambush child.....

:yelclap: ahh you can see clear as day how THIS is going to set a child on the straight and narrow. :(

do you think maybe, just possibly the child was just hanging with the wrong crowd and the move may have been sufficient ?? you know, rather then abusing him :idea:
its worked for plenty of kids out there, they fall into the wrong crowd and misbehave...their loved ones separate the child from the crowd and sometimes go to the extreme of putting quite a bit of distance between them.
maybe you could have just tried that rather then taking your belt to him :(

what an awful thing to happen, taken out of your country just so you can be belted.....:(

[fugiel]

parenting a child 101: if you cant smack your kid then here is a tip !!
lie to child, ship child out of county, ambush child.....

ahh you can see clear as day how THIS is going to set a child on the straight and narrow.

do you think maybe, just possibly the child was just hanging with the wrong crowd and the move may have been sufficient ?? you know, rather then abusing him
its worked for plenty of kids out there, they fall into the wrong crowd and misbehave...their loved ones separate the child from the crowd and sometimes go to the extreme of putting quite a bit of distance between them.
maybe you could have just tried that rather then taking your belt to him :(

what an awful thing to happen, taken out of your country just so you can be belted.....:(

I love and treat my nephew just as I would my own. The system tried to help my sister and her son, and after she had tried everything they suggested for a period of 2 years, she looked else where and still found no solution. When she went back to the system for help (i.e school, police, community organisations), even they had given up.

How do I know?
:yelclap:The school expelled him
:yelclap:The various trusts and organisations would just refer my sister onto someone else who would also do the same. So she was just running around in circles.
:yelclap:When she reported to the police that he had run away from home and was living at a gang house, it took them 12 days to get back to her and then another 5 days for them to actually take any form of action.

Background info: My sister had moved him to another private school so that he was away from his mates. Didn't work.

My sister has 3 other kids who are no trouble at all and they have never been spanked with a hand or an object.

My 15 year old nephew is 6 foot 1 inch and he weighs 138kg.

He has been influenced by the terrible disease of AMERICANISM.

He was involved in a serious assault on a teacher where the teacher received a broken nose.

He was involved in many other unreported incidents involving assault and intimidation on other people.

My sister is a very passive and caring person who is religious, maternal, responsible and ethical in all areas of life. Her and her husband are great providers to their children.

.................................................. ........................................

Bottom line is:

When all else fails, we have to resort to back to the basics and to tough love.

In the animal kingdom, fear is used to put their cubs or offspring into line whilst at the same time showing many other forms of affection through other actions.

Now, everyone else is entitled to their own opinion and to critisism. However, I would rather mislead my nephew and then belt him, although it involves fear, in order to get him back in line rather than to deal with picking up the pieces of him commiting murder and hurting someone else.

If I saw my nephew about to wantonly stab someone and I was the only person who was there to stop him. I would step in and restrain him, even if it meant hurting him.

And the fact that he is a teen does not justify the fact that he is exempt from a spanking, a belt or consequence. It is this very form of schema that makes some teenagers nowadays think they are above the law or immune to authority.

My nephew DID fear me, and I am sure it is still in the back of his mind. But the many things he has done since he arrived has shown to me that what I did was right and that he understands why it I did what I did. He has saved another student from his school from drowning, he has stepped into protect another stranger at a train station from getting beaten up from a bunch of thugs (which is what he previously was) although he put his own life in grave danger, he shows care, concern and respect for everyone and everything around him, he conducts and carries himself properly with pride, and his esteem is at the highest it ever has been. He is now doing very well in school and is more philosphical about his approach to life.

I have 3 children of my own and I have only ever had to ever spank one of my sons twice on seperate occasions.

I think it is a case of different strokes for different folks. I don't think smacking with a belt is necessary or required for all children.

[SorenLorensen]

i appreciate the tough situation but stand by my disgust at the fact that you all lied to him, made him expect a 'fun' trip and then as soon as he got here you belted him....

changing schools did not work...ok, a change of location with a great distance could have been sufficient but now you will never know, you didn't even give that a chance.

im sorry that people were assaulted and he played a part in it and im sorry he too was assaulted by a member of his family...hmmm, yeah !!

[BigRedV]

im sorry that people were assaulted and he played a part in it and im sorry he too was assaulted by a member of his family...hmmm, yeah !!

:iagree:
You are trying to teach him not to be a thug, yet your actions were thug like :confused:

Again, would it be acceptable if your sister was bashed by her husband with a belt? I don't think so.

No matter what you say, it is morally wrong and illegal in Australia to abuse a child with a belt. It makes me ill.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I think it is a case of different strokes for different folks.

Was that meant to be punny? LOL. How about no strokes for any folks?

No matter how badly behaved your nephew was, there is simply NO EXCUSE for taking to a child with a belt. That is abuse, it is illegal, and it is unethical. There simply is no justification for such an act of violence.

[OJandMe]

I have smacked my children.

I have used the wooden spoon.

I have never abused my children.

As a rule, we don't smack. I don't think it's necessary. But I do think there are occasions where sometimes it is.

I live on a property where there are many many dangerous things around that could permanently injure or kill my kids.

I would MUCH rather them have a stinging bum for a few minutes, than to end up dead.

When we moved here I walked around the property, saw for myself where the dangers were, then took my children (my older ones) for a walk around the property.. showed them exactly where they were and WERE NOT EVER allowed to go, and explained the reasons why. I also told them well beforehand that if they ever broke that rule... the consequence was going to be a smack with the wooden spoon.

Our house is quite a distance from our water tank... they are not ever allowed to climb on top of the water tank (for obvious reasons!).. if they ever climbed up there, and fell off, or fell in... we would not hear them and we would not see them! The tank is too far from the house.

One day they climbed on top of the water tank... Luckily I saw them when I was going into the paddock to get some wood. I took them back to the house, told them to go to their room. Once I had calmed down I went in, talked to them about the danger of the water tank, asked them if they were allowed to play there. They said "no, we're not". I asked one of them to go and get the wooden spoon and bring it back to me. They each had 2 swats (not hard, just stinging).

They've never been back on the water tank, nor near the dam, in the shed, in the bull paddock, in the drain next to the letterbox or any of the other places I've told them not to go.

I'd rather a stinging bum than a drowned, posioned, or gouged child.

OH.. and they also had the wooden spoon on another occassion for playing next to the shed with G in tow, and tipping over a barrel of kerosine... which Gab got all over him, and thought it was water.

So yeah. It's been used, but it's reserved. it's a transaction, they understand what behaviour is met by the wooden spoon. If you don't want to pay the bill, don't buy the product.

[PeppaH]

Well said OjandMe, of course people would rather a stinging bum then a dead child but no one on here is really willing to take that step. :no: Make you wonder if they really would prefer it :rolleyes:

[Pippi Longstocking]

Well said OjandMe, of course people would rather a stinging bum then a dead child but no one on here is really willing to take that step. :no: Make you wonder if they really would prefer it :rolleyes:

That is one of the most offensive insinuations I think I have ever read on bubhub.
As myself and many others have attempted to explain several times now, discipline is not limited to assaulting a child. There is NO EXCUSE for hitting a child with an implement. It is illegal. It is never ok. There are other, respectful methods that result in the poor/risky/unwanted behaviours ceasing. These other methods generally do not include ignoring a child endangering their life.

[PeppaH]

That is one of the most offensive insinuations I think I have ever read on bubhub.
As myself and many others have attempted to explain several times now, discipline is not limited to assaulting a child. There is NO EXCUSE for hitting a child with an implement. It is illegal. It is never ok. There are other, respectful methods that result in the poor/risky/unwanted behaviours ceasing. These other methods generally do not include ignoring a child endangering their life.

Yeah but too bad if they dont work :no:

[Pippi Longstocking]

Yeah but too bad if they dont work :no:

Too bad if assaulting them doesn't work either eh?

[PeppaH]

Too bad if assaulting them doesn't work either eh?

Yeah well at least we can say we tried EVERYTHING.

[OJandMe]

There are other, respectful methods that result in the poor/risky/unwanted behaviours ceasing. These other methods generally do not include ignoring a child endangering their life.

PLease I'd love your suggestions.

They need to work in one go though.... coz I may not get a 2nd chance.

I HATE having to use the wooden spoon, but to date I haven't been able to think of any other more effective way of getting an immediate response to a behaviour that must cease IMMEDIATELY on fear of death.

So I'd love some suggestions.

I will not smack with my hand... hands are for hugs, caresses and cuddles. I will not use my hand to hit my child. And in my opinion too easy to access... for me and them. I don't want them hitting their siblings.

[sandy cheeks]

OJ I would have done the same and it's good to hear they haven't gone back up there.

I hate the old smacking debate. To me the problem is she allowed her partner to smack him (I take this to mean it wasn't the childs father) this I dont like at all why on earth couldn't she deal with him it was her child.
I think there are so many turdy kids out there who's IMO parents need a good smack for doing such a cr@ppy job by letting there kids just run wild, not go to school and free range around the place.
I have lived in a few dodgy places and most of the kids who were like this had no boundries, didn't go to school, stole and asked strangers for money and oddly enough their parents didn't smack them they just thought the swaring and fighting was funny most of these kids were DX:rolleyes: with various lerning/social problems, but how much is medical and how much is the parents fault.