a sad ending...

[mumofethan]

I just found out thru a friend of mine that a girl we went to mothers group with has had her baby taken from her by FAYS...

a bit about her story...

she is a 16yr old mum, her daughter is 7mths... everyone knew that she yelled at the little girl a bit but no-one really knew much more... lots of ppl knew she was struggling but wouldnt accept help. She lived in community housing for young single mums...

However there was a lot that apparently we didnt know... the community housing leader had to dob her in....

We found out that she was hitting the child to the point of needed xrays, swearing at her, shaking her, leaving her in her cot for 30min for a "punishment", and leaving her in the house alone whilst she goes for walks...

i dont normally agree with FAYS huge interferences but I am so glad that they did in this case before the little girl was hurt.

[brooke]

thats so sad.
i couldnt imagine what it would be like to have a child to be taken away.
i agree that its best that the child is taken away before the child is hurt.

[Briannabear]

Thats so awful. That poor, poor baby. It just makes me want to cry + cuddle my daughter. :(
It sounds like this girl has some serious issues that she needs help with.

[Kamaikia]

very sad i just hope now someone steps up and gets the mum the help she needs so that one day she might have a chance to be a good mum. And hopefully the child will be put with some DECENT foster parents while mum sorts her life out.

[madvoice]

It is a sad ending but hopefully the child will grow up in a more secure, non violent family. Fingers crossed.

[mama2BnG]

I feel for both mother and child, but this seems to be the best thing for them!

[sopolicha]

As usual the government department that is supposed to protect little tiny defenceless babies like that sits around on it's **** until things get that bad that the baby ends up in hospital being x-rayed.

Gee, tell me that I am imposing my middle class values on other people, but isn't a 16 year old girl on her own at a bit more of risk of abusing her kids than the rest of us.

I worked around child abuse like for over 10 years and the thing that really really makes me angry is that this girl will go and do a parenting course or two and she will be handed back that poor baby.

Sorry girls, but I have got out of the wrong side of the bed and little babies being hurt upsets me.

[pinkandblue]

Hi

I just want to say that not all young parents dont know how to look after their kids.

I go to a mothers group for young mums (the youngest mum was 16) and I have to say that the mums in my group (some are single, some are not) are some of the best mums around. They do alot better than some of the older mums out there.

So 16 year old mothers are not bad mothers, there are some mothers in every age group who do not look after their children well and need help.

Young mothers are always looked down upon as bad parents but I also know so older mothers who arent the best mums either.

Sorry for the rant, but I am a young mum myself and am sick of being made out like I am a bad mother because of a very small majority who dont know how to look after their children properly.

Natalie

[Kamaikia]

i agree, you can't judge a mother because of the fact she's 16 or single. I know some 16 year old mothers who are doing a better job than some married 30 year olds I know. Remember abuse doesn't discriminate!
And you never know maybe all this girl needs is a few parenting classes and some support. :)

[sopolicha]

I knew when I posted that there would be backlash.

All I said was that the age of the mother is a well known risk factor amongst many for abuse of any kind, and I can tell you it is not the 30 year old married mum who Family Services or DOCS or whatever the equivalent government department is in your state gets notified of when they give birth.

I did not say anything of the kind that all young mothers abuse thier kids.

Just bear in mind quite often what you see at playgroup at and what actually happens at home are quite often two different things.

[Kamaikia]

Look i understand that there are young mothers who abuse there children - and i'm not seeing what i see at playgroup - my experience comes within the family, close friends - and you are right it may be the young mothers who are looked at more carefully but i think in general people need to open there eyes a bit more and realise that there are probably as many older people abusing kids but who notices - they wouldn't do that??? Every situation is different.

You said that you worked in child abuse for a long time - what do you think the outcome of this case would be - do you think if she gets help she will get her child back or will they just forget about the mum and concentrate on the baby?

[sopolicha]

There is no doubt in my mind that if she wants to get her baby back and she does what the Social Workers tell her to do she will get the baby back.

She obviously needs help and it is easier for them to give her a bit of help and put the baby back with her (another entire argument) than to remove the baby from her permanently.

[mumof3angels]

I really think you need to think about how you judge people and walk a day in the shoes of the young mother. I became a single mother at the age of 19 to a child with a heart condition and never in my time as a mother would let my son suffer or go without. I had one mother who comented to me that I always keep my child very clean and well cared for. And do you know the reason why I was to the point of obessive with the tidyness of myself, child and house is because of people like you. How dare you assume that just because we are young we know nothing and will not try our best to provide a clean and loving environment for your children. My mother physical beat my and emotional tortured me throughtout my entire childhood and teen years and she was 23 when she had me and then had another when I was 10 to whom I did most of the raising for so tell me how her being older made her better. People like you should sit and talk to young mothers and find out what it is like to be constantly looked at, judge and assume to we a no good pension bludging dirty laid abouts who only get pregnant to be able to sit at home all day and do nothing and bugger the number of kid we bring into the world. Try volenteering to help educate the other mothers who don't know all that will help them be a good mother and turn the statitics around instead of sitting on the **** judging and doing nothing to help

Deanne 27 and very proud younger mother of three

Connor 10/11/98 :cool:
Sarah 09/07/03 :)
Ally 03/11/03 :p

[Kamaikia]

Amen To That!!!

[sopolicha]

I assume mumof3 angles your outburst was directed at me.

Can you please point out to me where I judged someone in anything that I have said. I am the first to admit that it is not my business anymore on how anyone raises their kids, I was merely stating a fact. And I did not asssume anything about anybody.

If you are doing the best that you can to raise your own kids, more power to you, like I said it is of no interest to me, but I have seen babies and kids with injuries that no one should have to suffer, including multiple cigarette burns, broken bones from being thrown against a wall, hogtied and left in a cardboard box, suffocated to death in a pillow for crying at night, nappy rash so severe that the nappy has maggots in it, spiral fractures in arm bones because the arm has been twisted so much, I could go on for days, so don't tell me what I do and don't know about abuse.

I can also tell you from experience that the majority of these injuries were not inflicted by older mothers, and that no matter how much you want to help some people you just can't, like the original subject of this post.

Maybe you should just calm yourself down and say well I am not like that, my kids are happy, healthy and I am proud of them and myself for the job that I am doing instead of flying of the handle making wild accusations about how I see "younger mothers"

[WeThree]

I cant believe it took as long as it did for that poor little baby to get taken off that girl, at 16 most of us are still babies ourselves and it sounds like she was even more immature than most, i keep thinking of that poor little thing having no idea why those things kept happening, i hope it is now somewhere safe with lots of kisses and cuddles and warm bottles and that it is a long time before this girl even thinks about having any more children. I was 18 when i had thomas and even though i certainly never abused him i am much more patient and understanding now than i ever was then, what i would of thought was 'naughty' behaviour in thomas when he was say 18mths or whatever i now know to be a normal part of their development in my 2 little ones, so i know what poor Sopoli was trying to say before she was attacked left right and centre, a girl of that age all on her own needs constant support and guidance, being a mother certainly doesnt come naturally to everyone, particulary a 16 yr old girl, she probably had no idea about babies development, sleep patterns, feeding, nutrition, finances, getting a baby into a routine etc, then leave her alone with a crying baby all day instead of out having fun all day with her friends and you are asking for trouble. I was lucky in that i had a supportive family around me to go to for support and advice but not everyone is blessed in that way and I think that people should take the time to read posts properly before they jump down other peoples throats!

[Baby Girl]

Show me one person on this site that has never raised their voice, lost their temper or never thought about giving their child a smack (hand, bum wherever) and I will show you the person who has the right to judge anyone else in any way they see fit!!

Perhaps instead of wasting our energy fighting against each other we need to present a united front to these less fortunate mothers (whether it be financially, educationally, emotionally etc) to show them that they can learn how to do the right things for their children.

I too can see that the baby is better off for the time being to be put into DECENT foster care but we should not put aside the mothers willingness or ability to turn her life around and learn to control her temper/rage. Not one of us know her whole situation!!

So, yes, remove the child from the situation but offer help to the mother to regain custody of her child.

Emotions cannot be stopped but reactions to the emotion can be changed, maybe it just takes a little education and support.

If humankind spent more time teaching and supporting each other and less time critising each others points of view or way of doing things, this world would be a much safer, nicer place.

Sorry to rant....just my opinion!!

[WeThree]

Hi schmell that is part of what i was trying to say, this young girl obviously had no support, encouragment or access to any sort of services that could teach her how to be a mum and it had to get to the point where that poor innocent baby was severly physically assualted before anyone stepped in! all mothers need to support each other and look out for each other because no one else can ever really understand how much goes into raising a child and running a home and if we all reached out and helped each other more often, maybe this sort of thing wouldnt happen as often (having said that i think there is the occassional person that is just a bad person and no amount of support etc is going to turn some people into a good mother/father)

[sopolicha]

Thanks Coopsntilly and thanks for putting foward the point of view from someone that has been there and lived through it and beyond that stage in thier life to admit that it is not all cracked up to be.

Schmell, I totally agree with you about the world being a much better if we were all more tolerant and accepting. It is a lovely thought but can you really see it happening.

Also I am the first to admit that I have yelled and on occassion smacked my kids, with tremendous amounts of guilt afterwards but there is a big difference between a bit of discipline and downright abuse and neglect.

I am sorry, and I have seen too much and am far to cynical but, I just don't see how it is okay to say to any parent no matter what the age etc. well you have abused and neglected this child to the point of hospitalisation, you try hard to better yourself and you can have your child back. You can only help some people if they want to be helped.

Children are just so delicate and precious and they just need all the love, protection and unconditional acceptance they can get and why should anyone who abuses a child to that degree get a second chance?

[Briannabear]

Abuse is wrong regardless of the age of the parent/s.
My mother was abused as a child - the authorities took her, only to release her back to her parents. The abuse continued until she was a teenager and she ran away from home.
In some cases these people dont deserve to get their children back. This a human being we are talking about! What about this baby's feelings? There are some good foster homes out there - hopefully the baby gets placed with one of them.
This is a really sad story, and unfortunately is all to common. :(

[WeThree]

Becca and Sopoli both make some good points, if someone physically assaulted your child, would you then allow your child back into this persons care? surely not. if a father was continually abusing his children at every access visit, should he still be allowed to continue seeing them? what about if a mother/father has sexually abusing a child, should the child be made to go back to them then? surely this little bubba is just as precious as anyone elses child, and if you wouldnt leave your child with someone that you know has hurt them, why should any other child be made to? all children have the right to a safe and stable home environment, and sometimes that is not always with the natural parent. I strongly believe that some of these situations could be avoided if more intervention and support was offered, but once these terrible things have happened to a child, why is it ok for the child to be returned to the person that committed these crimes, simply because that person is the childs mother? some people cant be rehabilitated and even if they can surely the childs feelings of security and well being need to come before what the parent wants.

[Maghan]

Foster care must be better for kid's that badly abused then ever going back to the abuser. You only get one chance to get it right with kids, you cannot undo the damage, kid's deserve to be kids. Sopoli is right on par.

[Kamaikia]

You have all made some great points about this - made me think - especially "what if it was my child" but in reality how safe is foster care?????????????? :rolleyes:

[Baby Girl]

Schmell, I totally agree with you about the world being a much better if we were all more tolerant and accepting. It is a lovely thought but can you really see it happening.
That is the exact reason it will never happen because no-one can really see it happening. Call me deluded but small steps lead to bigger ones. Obviously the whole world is not going to become all flowers and butterflies but understanding and offering help is a better step than ridicule and ignorance. Obviously I am being very broad and by no means do I think this poor child should have been left in the care of the mother for so long before intervention but I am also saying that rehabilitation is possible (not always, I agree) and we don't know the full story or the situation so should offer something constructive and not just ridicule someone we don't even know.


I am sorry, and I have seen too much and am far to cynical but, I just don't see how it is okay to say to any parent no matter what the age etc. well you have abused and neglected this child to the point of hospitalisation, you try hard to better yourself and you can have your child back. You can only help some people if they want to be helped.
I realise some people reject help but maybe now she has had the child removed from her care, she will be able to realise that what she was doing was wrong and (if she wants to) can get help to learn the right things to do.


Children are just so delicate and precious and they just need all the love, protection and unconditional acceptance they can get and why should anyone who abuses a child to that degree get a second chance?
I agree that children are precious and all deserve the best life we can give them. I would not want my child to be put back in the care of someone who hurt them but as you have said, she will do what they tell her to and probably regain custody of the child. We can only hope that she actually learns something from the experience and doesn't repeat her actions.

Kamaikia, You make a great point. Haven't we all heard horror stories about inept foster carers.....but that is a whole other argument i am not going to get into.

[sopolicha]

Schmell,

Seeing how you like quoting me so much, could you please point where I ridiculed anyone in this thread (or anywhere else for that matter) or showed my ignorance. I merely stated a sad, well known fact by anybody who works in child protection. I would also be grateful for you to point out my ignorance to me if you are going to attack me personally.

[/QUOTE]
If humankind spent more time teaching and supporting each other and less time critising each others points of view or way of doing things, this world would be a much safer, nicer place.

Practice what you preach.

[Refresh]

Hi Schmell,

Just wanted to say that I totally agree with you and you make some very good points. If we all supported each other more and there was more unconditional love then the world would be a much beter place. :)

I love that quote..."Be the change you want to see in the world." So important.

I would love to see this mother get heaps of help to get back on track and ultimaltely get her baby back. Regardless of what the baby has been through, there is still the natural instinct of wanting to be with the mother. Of course, no one wants to see this bubba get hurt :( but the best end result would for them to be back together (with constant supervision of course.) I have no doubt that this girl loves her child but just has so many problems that she cant act appropriately at the moment.

I would like to see people supporting and loving this baby but also the mother! Such a sad situation for that poor tiny baby :(

[sopolicha]

This is not about tolerance and understanding and about helping people. The issue as the thread started is about little babies and children that are being abused, neglected and not cared for.

I am unsure about the babies natural instinct of wanting to be with the mother, maybe only because the poor thing does not know any better and has never been nutured.

It is also unreasonable to expect someone to constantly supervise this mother and child, after the child has been abused/hospitalised/whatever it is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

I am sorry I don't think that any person who abuses a child to that extent deserves a second chance, no matter what.

People who continually abuse and neglect and they are definately out there, must really upset people who can't have and would be more than happy to provide a loving stable home to abused children. (I can't wait for the reply on this one lol)

If you treated an animal like that, you would be banned from ever owning an animal ever again, so why is it different with children?

[Maghan]

Amen Sopoli. These people should never be given a second chance with the child in question or any other child for that fact. It should be about the rights of the child, not of the parent.

[sopolicha]

All of the relevant legislation acutually points to that fact, but that some how gets lost somewhere.

[Refresh]

:( While I understand that you can get "jaded" or whatever from our job, life experience or the things you have seen, I think it is sad that people are so quick to judge and "wipe" other people when they do something wrong...the mum is a child too and needs love and encouragement - not our anger and judgement. Yes, she needs to know what she has done wrong but I still think the best situation would be them to get back together eventually under certain circumstances.
God will forgive her if she asks and makes a serious effort to put things right , i believe we should do the same - not condemn her for the rest of her life.

I dont want to get into an arguement about this so I will bow out now...

xxxKatie

[Maghan]

That's even more reason to break the cycle. Stop the inter-generational violence of parent to child, especially in the most vulnerable of circumstances.

[sopolicha]

Yes well, where was God and the Church when both the mother and that child were suffering in this matter?

I am sorry but if the mother is at an age to concieve and bring a child into the world surely she would know right from wrong pending any intellectual impairment.

Based on what I know there are never going to "certain circumstances" where they can be reunited, the resources are simply not their to cope with it.

Like Maghan said it is all part of a vicious cycle.

PS I honestly do believe that child abuse is something to get really angry about.

[WeThree]

Sopoli is right child abuse is something we should all get really angry about, they can not protect themselves, if someone posted a story about someone owning dogs and they continually abused them i bet the same people who are saying 'oh send this poor little defenceless angel back to its abuser because we shouldnt judge other people' would be the first ones to jump in saying how horrible the pet owner was and that they should never own another animal, yet arent our children so much more precious? I think we have all lost site of what this thread was about, yes the story was about a young mum abusing a child, but it could have very well been an older mum, or dad, or a foster parent, or child care worker, the age or sex of the abuser is irrelevant, the point is that we all start needing to be more aware, and not ignore what we feel could be a child in danger because we dont want to be seen as 'judgemental' or 'sticking our noses in to other peoples business' if we see that a child could possibly be in danger we need to stand up and speak for them, there is nothing wrong with being passionate about something, alot of people in here are so afraid of being seen as opinionated or pushy that they are constantly wishy washy 'oh each to their own',' its really none of our business' 'at least she took it to the hospital' who are we to judge' etc etc, you get the picture. Come on girls!! if there is one thing that us as mothers should be passionate about its childrens rights, yes mothers rights to, absolutely, but childrens rights before anything else, lets get angry about gutless people who take their anger and frustration out on the ones that cannot defend themselves!!

[Briannabear]

I agree completely!

[Maghan]

hurray for the common sense!

[Refresh]

because we dont want to be seen as 'judgemental' or 'sticking our noses in to other peoples business' if we see that a child could possibly be in danger we need to stand up and speak for them, there is nothing wrong with being passionate about something

It has absolutely nothing to do with what I am "seen" as OMGosh. To suggest that "image" has something to do with speaking out against child abuse is obscene. It is not about not been "seen" as judgemental it is about not BEING judgemental while still protecting the child.

No one on here has disputed the fact that our children are the most precious things in the world, I cry whenever I hear of a child being hurt and I am absolutely appalled whenever I hear of an abortion - to me there is nothing more precious than the life of a child. My children mean the world to me and there is nothing I wouldnt do for them. I know that with proper support and love, most parents could have the same experience.

No one on here is saying that what has happened to this poor baby is OK - it is horrible and appalling. All I was saying is, there must be a better way...

You say you are passionate about child abuse, good on you, so am I, we need to be, but I am passionate about family and helping families stay together. Why cant there be some sort of program where families or individuals dont just foster the child but take in the mother as well? There are plenty of families in the community who would love to help. I know I would put my hand up straight away. Isn't this what life is all about? Helping those less fortunate, educating and just loving each other? Don't give up on people - EVERYONE can change.

Just think about it...how nice would it be to help that family out and see them in 5 years time, on their feet, stable and building a relationship?

[Maghan]

That's a really nice notion, but in reality it would not work. Pride in it's many manifested ways will stop someone in this situation accepting the hand of help. This is a whole other debate again I think.

It's so pleasing to see so many people up in arms about this subject, whether we accept what each other say or have some doubts about each others concepts, it has brought the sad issue of child abuse to the forefront of all our minds and may make us all that little bit more vigilant in the future.

[madvoice]

As usual the government department that is supposed to protect little tiny defenceless babies like that sits around on it's **** until things get that bad that the baby ends up in hospital being x-rayed.

Gee, tell me that I am imposing my middle class values on other people, but isn't a 16 year old girl on her own at a bit more of risk of abusing her kids than the rest of us.

I worked around child abuse like for over 10 years and the thing that really really makes me angry is that this girl will go and do a parenting course or two and she will be handed back that poor baby.

Sorry girls, but I have got out of the wrong side of the bed and little babies being hurt upsets me.

On another forum I regularly post on, (its Horse related but has an off topic adult section) there have been cases of mothers forgetting that their child is in the car and their children have DIED. Its sickening. I do agree with you that a 16yo is a higher risk for PND and abuse. I'm not saying that all 16yos are like that but a lot of them don't have the support they need.

Don't worry Sopoli, I understand how you feel.

[WeThree]

Toby@millers mum, i agree that more needs to be done to embrace and help mums who need it and i think that in doing so alot of bad situations could be avoided, i dont believe however that once someone has continually abused a child that the child should be continually given back to the parents in an effort to keep the family together, being a parent is a priviledge, not some sort of right, imagine children continually forced to be reunited with the very people who have committed this terrible things, it would be very scary for them, this is in the best interests of the mother, not the child. im sorry if i offended you but i dont think everyone can change, and you know what even if they can why should they be allowed to have their children back after they have abused them (im talking about terrible physical, emotional, sexual, financial abuse etc, not just a one off smack at the hands of a poor tired, isolated frustrated mum) would you like to be made to live with someone after they had committed these sort of crimes on you, no matter how much they told you they had changed, i know i wouldnt, and im big enough to speak out and defend myself if necessary, i just dont understand how anyone can honestly say that every parent should be given the chance to be reunited with their child, no matter what the crime and then still claim that it is truly in the best interest of the child :(
And yes i am judgemental towards people who bash, burn, throw, rape and otherwise terrorise innocent little children, no matter what their excuse

[Baby Girl]

That's a really nice notion, but in reality it would not work. Pride in it's many manifested ways will stop someone in this situation accepting the hand of help. This is a whole other debate again I think.
I question whether it is a matter of pride or really a matter of how they will be judged by others rather than helped without being made to feel like they are a lost cause that could never change.
But, like you said that is a whole different arguement.

Coops, no-one said that all people can be helped but shouldn't we try to help the ones who ask for it.

Thank you all for your opinions no matter which end of the spectrum. Definitely interesting and educational. I am leaving this thread now so as not to help anymore arguements along.

[Refresh]

NO one in their right mind would sit back and watch a child be continuosly abused when given back to their parents and not do anything about it. That is absurd. That is not what this is about. It's not the point I was trying to make at all.

Coops, you havent offended me, my problem is that I think it is sad these days (and this is directed at no one here) that people are so quick to discard someone into the "too hard" basket rather than actually lend a hand and actively try to help someone. I am not in any way talking about putting the child a at risk again, I just dont think it's right to just write the mother off becuase she has problems.

That's all. One thing we all agree on is that we cant stand child abuse of any kind and that something needs to be done about it.

[WeThree]

Toby@millarsmum, Then I dont understand what we are arguing about? :confused: if you read my earlier posts in this thread you will see that i agree with alot of what you are saying.
Should families try and be reunited if mum/dad has been going through a rough patch and are now getting help to get their lives back on track? Definetly
Should we all be doing more to help people in these sort of situations? Absolutely
Would more kids have a better chance if their were adequate services and support for young mums/ people from disadvantaged backgrounds etc? Yes of course
Should children go back to parents/caregivers who time and time again have seriously harmed them in some way? No, they should be given a chance to enjoy a secure, safe childhood, without going back and forward between households.
That is the point i was trying to make and you have just said that you agree with that, so again im not sure what we disagree on?.....
Schmell, once again, read my earlier post!!!!!!!! how many times do i have to say that i agree, help should be given to people who reach out for it, more services for families in crisis are needed etc, i have been there, i know what it is like to be all alone with a small child and have no life skills, parenting skills etc so again im not sure what we are disagreeing on? anyway im glad that so many people have something to say on this topic, maybe if more people continued to discuss these sort of things openly then they wouldnt remain behind closed doors as much and people wouldnt feel that they were unable to reach out for help.

[sopolicha]

Hurray to coopsntilly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WeThree]

aw shucks, thanks sopoli :o :p

[Emily's moocow]

Ok I've read all of these views and to an extent understand where most of you are coming from. We don't know this 16 year old child or her circumstances. But we do need to ask where is her family and co conspiritor in bringing this baby into the world. Where was the support from the hospital, ECN and local doctor. Somebody obviously knew she was having problems.

Give the mother all the help they can and support her, give her the confidence to take responsibility for herself and the baby and do whatever they can to put her back on track then assess whether she is ready or capable of forming a bond and making a loving caring envirnment to raise this child.

[lilizzysmommy]

I am a young mom but i have to agree with the fact tha most young moms have no patience with kids. I know there are good young moms out there who are under the radar cos nobody pays attention to someone who's doing everthing right but when I take my daugther down to the playgroung I see how young moms are more interested in chatting with their friends and all they want is for their kids to leave them alone. This poor lil one feel and wanted her mom to cuddle her and all trhe mom did was telling her off and go away and keep playing, which made the child cry even more so the mom yanks her by the arms and swears at her for being "annoying"and this is not the first or only time I've seen this. Yopung people need top socialise and need space and a child ties you down, specially if you are single as the pressure and the responsability that is supposed to be shared by 2 people fall entirely to 1.at 16, 17 etc, your not even old enough to go out and when you get to 18 you feel trap and like you never had the chance to do anything as when you are finally free from your parents your traped witha kid. I know this cos i felt that way a bit but then again I have a partner and I'm not much of a outdoors person and I love my child to death. Is unfortunate that a defenceless child has to fall into the hands of someone who doesn't decerve them, being old or young...

[DustyPeach]

I myself am appalled at the fact most children in care other than that of their host organism are from young mothers. That is a sad but quite true fact. My aunty has been a foster and emergency relief career for 35 years. My whole life I grew up with plenty of children to play with. However I clearly remember the sadness in most of them that had been burnt with various things including cigarettes. Their own mothers did this to them as punishment. I remember one little girl as though I was playing with her yesterday. We were in the yard and other friends of my aunty came to visit. They came out side for a smoke and the girl hid behind me screaming and bawling her eyes out. Saying she would not snatch toys again and begged to not be burnt. To this day this child and I have remained friends. Her mother was 15 when she fell pregnant. The girl now in her mid 30’s with three of her own has never and swears will never have any contact with her host organism (as she puts it) again. She was adopted by my aunty and is quite a well rounded person. Still she can’t handle being around anyone that smokes and has horrible scars on her back and bottom in the shape of smiley faces. I feel that they do good in most cases and in others do get it wrong.

Weather the support for single mothers is there or not is a whole different conversations. It is sad that the most common abusers are young mothers and statistics show this. I am not making this post to ignite flames or flack for myself or others that have posted along these lines. However it is fact as far as statistics show.

Sprolli (sp) you are right on par and I am thankfull for people like yourself.. I was also abused as a child and if it was not for my aunt's kind heart and taking me in I would not be here today. My parents don't exist to me they are host organism also. I was the product of lets give the parents 3rd 4th and 5th chances. Once abusers always abusers, give the kids a real life and a good start by keeping them out of the harm of the ones doing the abusing.

[WeThree]

hi dusty peach, interesting to hear from someone else with first hand experience in this area. I agree that it is a sad but true fact that the majority of children who are abused are abused by mothers/fathers who do not have the emotional maturity for the level of commitment and dedication that small children/babies need, (especially single mums who have the added stress of having to raise a child all on their own) I know I was one with my first child. Please dont anyone get angry, this is not a personal attack on you if you are a young mum, not all teenage, single mums abuse their children. I did not abuse mine, but I could have done alot better, not because I was a bad person but simply becasue i was 18, all alone and still very selfish, as teenagers are. there should be more done to prevent teenage pregnancy and more support given to the family unit, it is so undervalued these days, its a tough road to walk alone, particulary when your only 15/16/17/18, thanks again for sharing your experience with us

[Maghan]

Dusty Peach it was nice to hear your story. My hubby and I are raising my sister's four children due to a similar circumstance to yours I imagine. We sometimes wonder if we will ever make a difference and if one day they will appreciate what we've done. They all still really love their mum (if they even know what love is) and we never say bad things about her, just that she couldn't give them a safe home. I worry what will happen when they're old enough to go and find her themselves, I hope they come to your conclusion that she was only a vessel to bring them into the world and not worth their time.

A wise social worker once used this analogy with abused kids:

If, when you first get your brand new car, you clean, service and garage it regularly, then in 20 years time you will still have a very nice car, which requires minimal input.

If you get your new car, never clean it, service it or garage it and ding all the panels, even though you will be able to have the panels beaten and fix up the engine it will never run the same as the one that has always been looked after.

Kids too are the same, once the damage is done, there's no turning back the clock.

[Kamaikia]

Call me stupid but I truly beleive that some young mums do a better job, but I also know some don't. As far as the single mum thing - don't get me started on that.
There is no way to force birth control on young people - or stop them having sex. We know they will have sex and make babies so maybe its time to do something to stop SOME young people abusing there children. No make that all people young and old. Maybe free mandatory parenting classes throughout pregnancy for everyone. I mean we need a licence for a car but nothing for a life??
Free counselling for those in the high risk group or those not coping - but number one would be to remember - a yound person who needs help is not going to ask for it from people who expect them to do bad. This is where they try to do too much and get burnt out.
Maybe if everyone starts off with a positive attitude towards young mums and single mums they might get more of a response.
And while you may not have been having a go at all single mums let me remind the married and partnered women of something - just because you are in a relationship now does not mean you always will be - even the best relationships break - no one can predict the future - bear that in mind while you are thinking bad of single mothers.
And just be aware that you don't know all the situation - would you judge me for being single after knowing I left a bad situation so that my child would have a safe life full off love and without daily drama. Probably not - but its amazing how many do without knowing anything about anything.
Sorry I think I just got carried away.

[WeThree]

hi kamaikia,whilst im not even going to reply to alot of the stuff you said (its just going around in circles, if you have ever read any of my posts you would know that i 100% support single mums, i was one for a long time myself :) I will say that you made a great point, you need a license for nearly everything these days except having a child :eek: having a child is a privelige not a right and whilst risking sounding like a broken record, yes married mums can abuse as well etc etc and parenting classes should be mandatory for ALL new mums/dads with more support. but there should be more support with in the family, we are all so isolated these days, like i said the family unit (both immediate and extended) is so undervalued, when a mum is isolated and without support this is when she can reach breaking point.

[Refresh]

You are right Coops, we do agree :) :D

[WeThree]

Im glad Katie :) because you seem like a really nice person and I didnt like that we were disagreeing with each other, I just dont think either of us explained ourselves clearly enough at first? :confused: :D

[Kamaikia]

Hi coops - look sorry if I sounded like I was having a go at you about the single/young mum thing - its something that really s****s me off. I'm glad you have an open mind,
I cop it constantly from people - so far that some old school friends will not talk to me because I am not married. There loss!
I guess its something you learn pretty quick when you are a single/or young mum - you get defensive fast. I'm trying to control it :)
No harm intended

[WeThree]

hi kamaikai, dont worry i understand, you end up getting very defensive and its true that i have discovered that i am treated differently in my day to day life now that i am married, particulary by other mums at school etc, its funny people probably dont even notice they are doing it, so i know why you can be a bit on guard sometimes :)

[Maghan]

I may as well pop another two cents worth in while the merry-go-round is still going. Just for the record, my sister wasn't necessarily young... or single, just someone who should never have been allowed to have that many children if any at all.

[WeThree]

hi maghan, some people should just never ever have children, i know of one girl who is trying with her partner and it doesnt seem to be happening and i think it is for a reason, i can tell that she would just make the worst kind of mother ever and she is not particulary young, nor is she single, some people would be/are just lousy at being parents

[Maghan]

Absolutely Coopsntilly, I actually have friends who have acknowledged that they would be crap parents. They didn't want to be like their parents and have made the conscious decision to never have children. Funny though, people always "put them on trial" for that decision.

[WeThree]

I know, i dont understand that, how can someone be 'selfish' for deciding to not bring a child into the world that is not wanted and wouldnt be loved or cared for the way they should , surely someone who makes such a decison should be applauded

[Imogensmum]

If, when you first get your brand new car, you clean, service and garage it regularly, then in 20 years time you will still have a very nice car, which requires minimal input.

If you get your new car, never clean it, service it or garage it and ding all the panels, even though you will be able to have the panels beaten and fix up the engine it will never run the same as the one that has always been looked after.

Kids too are the same, once the damage is done, there's no turning back the clock.

I believe in this quote so much- it sums up everything i think.

I have been working at a childcare centre within a drug and alcohol rehabilitation centre for 5 years- and i can't even begin to describe some of the horror stories i have heard! :(

I have nursed children back from shells of human beings- only to send them back off with their parents 6mths later and find out mum has started using again. It breaks my heart every time. I have had little girls and boys cling to me and beg me not to make them leave, they'll be good etc. It is heart wrenching to watch them being dragged off.
So i guess basically what i believe is that some people really don't deserve the privelege of being parents! Young or old- but admitedly most of our parents(within my service) are under 25- and i guess it's what is always said- the good parents bi pass the radar... so it is only the bad ones that grab our attention, and unfortunately the stories that are often reported are the ones that point the finger towards this group.

Me- i am one young(24) single mum who will show my daughter that even though she wasn't "planned" she was and continues to be definately wanted- and will always be showered with love. Now if all the other young/ single mums out there focused on that rather than taking offence to every comment wouldn't we just prove how mature we really are :)

Ladies give your children extra hugs and kisses to make up for the ones that all the abused and neglected kids miss out on!

[ThomasMum]

Ladies give your children extra hugs and kisses to make up for the ones that all the abused and neglected kids miss out on!

Oh will do Imogen'smum, will do! :)

We have so much love in our family, that we can't start our day without saying "i love yous", hugs and kisses to each other!

Love & Peace to all...

Thomas'sMum

[WeThree]

mmm going to all give them some right now :) xxx

[tupper_lady]

Perfect example of someone who shouldnt have kids. Perhaps she was just far too young to parent, and not getting all the support that she really needed.

So good for the bubby that this has happened though.

[FourAngelKisses]

Maybe she had PND or something?? It's good that the baby got removed though, poor lil thing.

[jessgray]

maybe now the mum will get the support she really needs and the help she needs. and her and bub will be able to be re-united after such a bad start :)

[Tony Ryan]

That sad story does raise a couple of issues that we all should think about, because most of us will eventually come into contact with one or more of these scenarios:


People are reluctant to report a mum (or dad, or child minder) screaming at their baby; yet this is the first evidence that something is seriously wrong.

And, on a level below this, is parents who leave their baby in a room alone, to scream in obvious agony for hours. Any report on this will be ignored because in our society screaming babies is considered acceptable. Almost every other culture in the world emphatically disagrees.

The third issue is that, since the Stolen Generation HREOC report, no child protection worker dares intervene in reports of abuse of Aboriginal children because they are terriified of being accused of stealing a second generation.

Fostering causes emotional and psychological damage to both child and foster parents; and it often leads to abuse and molestation. A 1980s conference recommended abandoning the fostering system except for emergency use only. Adoption is the only proven method with success. Returning infants to abusers is a formula for disaster.

It seems to me that ordinary people should be publicly expressing their opinions on these situations because only ordinary people seem to care. After more than a decade in that field I concluded that professionals and government are part of the problem.

[Maghan]

Tony, whilst I know you weren't having a go at foster carers and were just quoting the facts. I think it should be said that there are some great foster carers out there who take on children and treat them as their own. Sometimes they raise a child for 10 years and then have to see it go back to a horrible place. Other times they are the child's "parent" for life. Whilst foster care is not ideal. It certainly lends a hand to some vulnerable children.

[shed]

Well call me a bad tempered old bat but I am bl**dy sick of young mothers jumping on the wrong bandwagon and having a go at other people who are expressing an opinion about one particular case saying they are against young mothers.

Not everyone is against you young mums. GET OVER YOURSELVES. If its not about you then ITS NOT ABOUT YOU.

When I saw this thread take this turn it made my blood boil because its so predictable.

Its like me jumping down everyones throats when they happen to mention something about people with freckles, or size 8 feet. Just because I happen to have freckles and size 8 feet doesn't mean someone mentioning another mother with those things doing something is a personal attack against me.

Far out.

[razzle]

The OP posted this almost a year ago. I'm closing this thread now.