View Full Version : WDYT about choosing your baby's gender?
The gender desire thread has had me thinking :dizzy:
Would you choose your baby's gender if you could, through IVF, not by doing specific methods while DTD.
My friend has 4 boys, the youngest only a week old but I know she will try for a girl, maybe even until she gets one.
My other friend told her to go to Asia or other places to get the girl that she desperately wants through IVF. Her brother has been trying for 3 years with his wife without luck to have ANY baby so my friend feels a little selfish going to such extreme measures just to get a girl when her brother can't even have ONE baby.
I have heard that if you have 4 of the one gender, then you can use IVF in Australia to get the gender you want. Not sure how true it is.
What do you think? Should you be able to choose the gender you want? Or do you think every baby is such a blessing that it is ethically and morally wrong? What about left over embryos or any male embryos that occur?
rainbow road
03-09-2009, 20:46
I said no. I think it is a slippery slide to designer babies if people decide to pick and choose what they want. Of course, I think it's fine to try for a specific gender by DTD on certain days or altering diet, but I think it's wrong to use IVF just to get a child of a specific gender.
It turns my stomach actually.
Mathermy
03-09-2009, 20:47
If we had another baby I would prefer another girl (as would DH) but would not do anything unusual to seek out one sex or the other. It is not something I personally would feel morally comfortable with and I think the more comfortable as a society we become with "choosing" particular characteristics for our children it's a real slippery slope to a big fat ugly mess.
KatiesMum
03-09-2009, 20:48
Firstly - no I dont think you should be able to do IVF simply to select gender. IVF should be for infertility only.
Secondly - you cannot currently use IVF for gender selection in Australia (especially not after you have had 4 children). Gender selection is available ONLY for cases where genetic conditions are passed through a particular sex .... and even then there are some pretty strict conditions.
While I realise that gender disappointment is real, having experienced infertility myself, am unable to have any more .... and knowing so many of my wonderful friends who do not have ANY children, I think that IVF certainly should be left only for those who are unfortunate enough to be infertile.
I disagree too. So many people can't have children, even with IVF. I think it is wrong.
rainbow road
03-09-2009, 20:52
deleted
Sarieslittlemen
03-09-2009, 20:53
I voted other. We have three boys and we have decided to try, one last time, for a girl.
Though I must say now we are trying again because our desire for another baby is great and while we will try everything in our power (ie timing, diet, climate) to sway the odds in favour of pink, ultimately we will be just as happy should the baby be a boy.
I do not think that you should be able to go into IVF and order a baby, so to say. But to try and naturally help your chances I don't see anything wrong with that.
deleted
are you a mod forkie :detective: :laughing:
Annabella
03-09-2009, 20:54
No I wouldn't choose my baby's gender if it were available. I am happy with what God gives me.
I can understand people wanting a particular sex, if I had 4 boys I would be DESPERATE for a girl, but would still never ever 'discard' any of my embryos because of its sex (which is what it would come down to if IVF is used to do it).
Like others have said, IVF should only be for couples finding it hard to fall pregnant, and for genetic conditions.
I voted other. We have three boys and we have decided to try, one last time, for a girl.
Though I must say now we are trying again because our desire for another baby is great and while we will try everything in our power (ie timing, diet, climate) to sway the odds in favour of pink, ultimately we will be just as happy should the baby be a boy.
I do not think that you should be able to go into IVF and order a baby, so to say. But to try and naturally help your chances I don't see anything wrong with that.
Totally agree that doing everything you can regarding diet, etc to get the desired sex, but IVF is going too far...as you say, ordering the gender you want :no:
misskittyfantastico
03-09-2009, 20:56
I'm with Forkie. While gender disappointment is real and should never be dismissed or belittled, "designing" children places SO much pressure on THEM to be the "girl" you always wanted, or the "boy". A slippery slope indeed.
delirium
03-09-2009, 20:56
I agree with Forkie. Soon we will not only be able to choose the gender, but give them black hair, and sporting prowess. The movie Gattaca is sadly prophetic I'm afraid.
But I guess I'm looking at this from the POV of someone that has both genders. A cousin is so desperate for a boy after 3 girls, and my MIL had 4 girls before DH. I do understand gender disappointment, well really I don't bc I have both genders, but I empathise.
I disagree. I'd give my right arm to be able to fall pregnant. It annoys me that people could be so superficial. I'm probably far too bias to give a proper opinion as infertility is a b!tch and it makes you crazy sometimes. But yeah it also crosses so many moral boundaries for me.
Baldie's Mum
03-09-2009, 20:59
Firstly - no I dont think you should be able to do IVF simply to select gender. IVF should be for infertility only.
Secondly - you cannot currently use IVF for gender selection in Australia (especially not after you have had 4 children). Gender selection is available ONLY for cases where genetic conditions are passed through a particular sex .... and even then there are some pretty strict conditions.
While I realise that gender disappointment is real, having experienced infertility myself, am unable to have any more .... and knowing so many of my wonderful friends who do not have ANY children, I think that IVF certainly should be left only for those who are unfortunate enough to be infertile.
Julie you amaze me with every post. :bee:
:iagree: 100% with you my sweet! xoxoxo
KatiesMum
03-09-2009, 20:59
Another question though ....
What about the gender selection techniques being used in the US?
(Basically spinning the sperm sample as X and Y sperm have different weights, so selecting the sperm carrying the gender that you want.)
It is then inseminated into you .... no extra embryo's created, and no surgery time used up.
On a philisophical level .... Should we be able to select gender?
I wouldn't bother, personally, as I had my gender disappointment and I got over it.
But I don't really have strong feelings about other people accessing IVF for gender selection for no other reason but personal preference. Obviously it shouldn't be subsidised or anything, but if people want to pay for it themselves, then that's their business.(obviously it's a moot point as it's not currently available in Australia)
Although due to my lack of caring either way, my opinion could be turned so I'll keep reading the thread for more insightful posts than mine.:D
Mathermy
03-09-2009, 21:05
Another question though ....
What about the gender selection techniques being used in the US?
(Basically spinning the sperm sample as X and Y sperm have different weights, so selecting the sperm carrying the gender that you want.)
It is then inseminated into you .... no extra embryo's created, and no surgery time used up.
On a philisophical level .... Should we be able to select gender?
Though the idea of that particular method you speak of (which I admit to knowing very little about) is slightly more acceptable to me personally, I am still very uncomfortable with the idea. I guess my answer is no, I do not think we should be able to "select" gender or other desirable characteristics.
rainbow road
03-09-2009, 21:05
are you a mod forkie :detective: :laughing:
in my head, sure I am! :D :p
Another question though ....
What about the gender selection techniques being used in the US?
(Basically spinning the sperm sample as X and Y sperm have different weights, so selecting the sperm carrying the gender that you want.)
It is then inseminated into you .... no extra embryo's created, and no surgery time used up.
On a philisophical level .... Should we be able to select gender?
Nope, we should not be able to select gender :no:. I don't have a problem with 'at home methods' per se because at the end of the day it's still being left to chance, the way nature intended it.
I know it's not quite the same, but look at the stress China was under with such a skewed ratio of men/women because of the one child policy resulting in the discarding of little girls.
I just think it's a risky little game and they're not risks we should be willing to take.
I don't agree with choosing the gender at all...what on earth will be next :confused:
If someone goes to that extreme, I would feel really sorry for any other children they already have that weren't the "desired" gender. What about when the parents get the gender they want...
FTR, my friend is not entertaining the idea of doing this, but my other friend keeps telling her about it. I really don't think she would do it but I was just interested in everybody else's opinion.
MummaBear03
03-09-2009, 21:25
I disagree. I'd give my right arm to be able to fall pregnant. It annoys me that people could be so superficial. I'm probably far too bias to give a proper opinion as infertility is a b!tch and it makes you crazy sometimes. But yeah it also crosses so many moral boundaries for me.
:hugs: I have watched the heartache my brother and his wife have suffered, having had multiple miscarriages since they have been married. It's horrible to watch, and I know she wouldn't give 2 hoots about gender and I feel the way you do, it's superficial. I know too many people who have said they want to have a girl so they can dress her in all the nice outfits. um, people, it's a little life you're bringing into the world, if you want to play dress-ups buy a doll!
CrankyAndTired
03-09-2009, 21:29
Well this thread is hitting close to home for me.
I am undergoing gender selection in the US next month, to conceive a girl. We have a boy who totally adore and we want a girl.
This IVF uses Microsorted sperm, so the sperm used is 95% XX rich sperm, which gives a 95% chance any embryos created will be girls.
As I am pro-life I have already discussed my beliefs with my fertility specialist in the US and agreed that any usused embryos will definitely be kept in storage so that I can come back and use them later. However they only harvert a few eggs and 70% of couples using this technique have no left over embryos anyway.
I will be having two female embryos implanted in me mid Oct in Los Angeles and I am very excited about giving my little boy a little sister :goodvibes:
It was recommended we use IVF instead of IUI because it has a mich higher pregnancy rate and given that we are travelling from Australia they want to increase our chances.
We have the money and I don't see anything unethical about sorting sperm, or about IVF - for me though, I draw the line as disposing of any male embryos. I simply couldn't do that.
We all have our limits - for some that is timing intercourse to increase chances of a specific gender, for some that would be Microsort, for me its PGD Microsort IVF with any remaining embryos stored and implanted later on. I consider any of my embryos my babies :sunshine:
I dont think my using IVF, stops anyone else using it for infertility reasons but I can understand why the whole topic is new and perhaps uncomfortable.
I've given it a lot of thought for a long time and am very happy with our course of action - as is my husband.
I wasnt sure whether or not to be honest about what Im doing - I'm sure I will receive some criticism and I guess thats ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Next month I have a 40-50% chance of getting pregnant. If I do get pregnant it is 100% guranteed to be a girl. We have 20% chance of conceiving twin girls.
Its an exciting stage in our lives, so while I understand if people disagree with gender selection, or methods to increase gender probability, please respect that this is a real life issue for us right now - these are not hypotheticals in my case, we are going to have a baby girl by choice :bee:
Another question though ....
What about the gender selection techniques being used in the US?
(Basically spinning the sperm sample as X and Y sperm have different weights, so selecting the sperm carrying the gender that you want.)
It is then inseminated into you .... no extra embryo's created, and no surgery time used up.
On a philisophical level .... Should we be able to select gender?
Never heard of that but amazing technology...WOW. Still don't think it's right :no:
I am undergoing gender selection in the US next month, to conceive a girl. We have a boy who totally adore and we want a girl.
Livly, whilst I don't agree with this, I would be very interested in your perspective on a couple of things. Hope you don't think I am being nosey :o
Did you have trouble conceiving your son?
How many kids do you plan on having?
If you plan on having more than 2 children, then why did you consider this straight away before trying for another baby naturally? If you are going to use any left over embryos, then I guess you are intending on having more children after this.
If the success rate is only 40 - 50%, it seems an expensive way to get a baby if you have no trouble conceiving. Why not get pregnant now and see what the sex is and then try this later?
Sorry, don't mean to sound rude or as if I am prying, I am just interested in hearing another POV.
CrankyAndTired
03-09-2009, 22:05
Livly, whilst I don't agree with this, I would be very interested in your perspective on a couple of things. Hope you don't think I am being nosey :o
Did you have trouble conceving your son?
How many kids do you plan on having?
If you plan on having more than 2 children, then why did you consider this straight away before trying for another baby naturally? If you are going to use any left over embryos, then I guess you are intending on having more children after this.
If the success rate is only 40 - 50%, it seems an expensive way to get a baby if you have no trouble conceiving. Why not get pregnant now and see what the sex is and then try this later?
Sorry, don't mean to sound rude or as if I am prying, I am just interested in hearing another POV.
Hi Lozzaaa :wave:
I am happy to come back and answer your questions but I'm feeling a bit raw tonight - just spend a while on the phone explaining it all to my mum.
I'll do my best to get back on tomorrow to answer your questions.. :)
Liv x
tootiredtosleep
03-09-2009, 23:02
I voted other, because I am in 2 minds about it.
That is in part to having 2 girls already, both with hip dysplasia. It's a genetic birth defect and more common in girls, although it can affect boys too. Its fully treatable, but I don't think I could go through with it a 3rd time. Perhaps if I knew that I could have a boy AND he wasn't affected with DDH I might change my mind.
Mathermy
04-09-2009, 07:16
With respect to your personal experience Livly, and I apologise if my earlier comments offended you (off to edit, should have thought about it further before I phrased that)..
The *money* side of this kind of technology concerns me too, in terms of selecting preferential characteristics in a child. Obviously as this kind of technology is expensive it will not be available to a vast majority of average income couples and i sincerely doubt that it will get to the point where medicare offers to subsidise IVF for healthy fertile couples looking for a pink or blue one.
So if you have only wealthy couples being able to access technology which in essence is being used to *weed out* undesirable characteristics whether it be gender or anything else, do we run the risk of creating a sort of genetic underclass? Whereby those who can afford it opt for the gender they like, and perhaps in the future as techonlogy progresses other characteristics...whereas people having babies the *usual* way get the pot luck draw of nature and all of the inconsistency that entails.
I find the idea very unsettling when I think of the implications this kind of technology has for society as a whole-despite my empathy for the wishes of individual couples.
delirium
04-09-2009, 07:29
So if you have only wealthy couples being able to access technology which in essence is being used to *weed out* undesirable characteristics whether it be gender or anything else, do we run the risk of creating a sort of genetic underclass? Whereby those who can afford it opt for the gender they like, and perhaps in the future as techonlogy progresses other characteristics...whereas people having babies the *usual* way get the pot luck draw of nature and all of the inconsistency that entails.
That's a good point and that worries me too. Will we have a rich sub class with genetically engineered higher IQ? Or will the poor end up spending more on health care bc their child will be sicker than those whose DNA has been altered?
MummaBear03
04-09-2009, 07:38
That's a good point and that worries me too. Will we have a rich sub class with genetically engineered higher IQ? Or will the poor end up spending more on health care bc their child will be sicker than those whose DNA has been altered?
I guess this is the future, and it's happening now. Is anyone else absolutely terrified? I always thought such things were a possibility, but I thought it sounded so unethical that it would never be done. Seems I was wrong...
Talking gender selection specifically (without taking into consideration the possibilities of weeding out other characteristics) I don't think a person should be allowed to select the gender of ALL their children, there is already a big enough problem in other countries with female babies being "undesirable". If it were limited to people who had one gender already and were looking to have the opposite gender I think that would be ok.
~Temet Nosce~
04-09-2009, 08:14
Ok so it maybe easy for me to say because I will have one of each, but I chose other. I think maybe if there is a genetic condition or if someone has had like 4 of the same gender then it should be ok for them to choose if they want.
But to me having a baby and leaving it completely up to nature is like opening the most awesome present ever, finding out what they will look like etc. what their personality will be etc. and this includes gender.
I wouldn't really say I desperately wanted a boy this time, which many people always assumed was the case, because you know, everyone wants that pigeon pair :rolleyes: (what the hell have pigeons got to do with it anyway :confused: :laughing:) it was more that I always felt and knew I was having a boy, all my life I have just 'known'. So when I found out dd was a girl I was really confused, and it's why I was so dead set certain this one was a boy (and I was right)
bronny-jane
04-09-2009, 09:17
i dont see why it cant be an option..
i had 3 girls before my son:yes:.. would we have kept trying.. im not sure..
until you have a few children of one gender, you'll never know the feeling of wanting to have at least one of the opposite sex..
i dont think its selfish at all.. its not like you instantly would treat your child badly, or feel hard done by because its the same sex as the others.. my son isnt put on a pedestal becaus he is my only boy, he's simply my child:)
i dont see why it cant be an option..
i had 3 girls before my son:yes:.. would we have kept trying.. im not sure..
until you have a few children of one gender, you'll never know the feeling of wanting to have at least one of the opposite sex..
i dont think its selfish at all.. its not like you instantly would treat your child badly, or feel hard done by because its the same sex as the others.. my son isnt put on a pedestal becaus he is my only boy, he's simply my child:)
I feel for my friend too, having 4 boys.
But, I thought you didn't agree with IVF???
bronny-jane
04-09-2009, 09:26
But, I thought you didn't agree with IVF???
i dont. but i dont force my choice on others, its not my place...saving that for when im a grandma, or mil:D
~Temet Nosce~
04-09-2009, 09:27
i dont. but i dont force my choice on others, its not my place...saving that for when im a grandma, or mil:D
:laughing: oh god this forum is probably full of 'those' future MIL's :D
SassyMummy
04-09-2009, 09:32
The only time I think this should be available, is if there's a high risk of one particular gender having some sort of "defect" (for want of a better word).
I don't think that people should be able to choose the gender of their babies simply because they'd prefer a particular sex. I don't agree with stuff like that... sure, make sure you can have the healthiest baby you can, but there's no reason to get picky.
I think nature kinda balances out males and females nicely (I know there are more of one than the other - a few years back it was more males I believe - but generally, it's a fairly even balance)... I would hate for it to be completely out of whack because a lot of people would prefer one gender over the other.
I don't care if people want to try eating weird stuff, having sex in specific positions, etc to try and get a specific gender though... I don't think it really works anyway, and they're just TRYING to get a specific gender, not being assured that they WILL get a specific gender... and it's natural, not medical.
I'd like either next time...though I'm kind of leaning towards a little boy. I wouldn't go out of my way to get one over the other though...
i dont. but i dont force my choice on others, its not my place...saving that for when im a grandma, or mil:D
:laughing: are you going to be one of THOSE grandmother or MIL :laughing:
littleleos
04-09-2009, 10:47
yeah why not;)
but I wouldnt do IVF I would use the other method of sperm separation...
I would also only use it if I already had 2 or more boys.
sandy cheeks
04-09-2009, 11:09
I dont think IVF should be wasted on people who just want a particular sex I think it's very wrong (reminds me of india or china where they only want boy's)
If it for a reason like a genetic defect more common in one particular sex then that's different but if you just want a girl then I think it's wrong kind of like playing god, just because we can do it doesn't meen we should do it iykwim.
Also if they have no troubles getting preg what right do they have to use IVF?
It is interesting to see the different reactions people have to sex selection through IVF (create embryos, test for gender, implant embryo of chosen sex), and sex selection through sperm seperation (separate sperm by x or Y chromosome, create embryo using appropriate gendered sperm, implant embryo).
I think so far in this thread people have been more comfortable with the idea of sex selection through sperm separation due to not having to discard embryos (of the unchosen sex).
I am more uncomfortable with sex selection through sperm separation, as the process chooses the sperm to produce the bub, therefore moving further away from natural selection ie the healthiest sperm will reach the egg.
In IVF (this is not considering ICSI), there is still some degree of natural selection occurring, and therefore less manipulation of the person to be.
Therefore, i am more comfortable with less (genetic) manipulation of the people to be born (and accept that embryos not selected will not be born) rather than manipulate those to be born in order that no embryos be wasted.
Question for those who are comfortable with sperm selection, do you have any concerns for the discarded sperm (that contained the unselected chromosome)? Do you have greater or less concern for discarded eggs? And how does this level of concern compare to discarded embryos?
A Party of Five
05-09-2009, 18:02
No God has a plan for everyone you cant just choose what you want if you are meant to have seven children and all boys you will and if you arent then you wont but I dont think I would ever choose my babies gender you get what you get, and if you cant be happy with that then you shouldnt have kids at all!
I dont think I would ever choose my babies gender you get what you get, and if you cant be happy with that then you shouldnt have kids at all!
:iagree:
Beeza8906
05-09-2009, 18:13
I voted sure why not? Each to there own.. I personally don't understand how it's ment to work..:o
Looshkin
05-09-2009, 18:14
^^ agreeing with lozza agreeing with yummymummyof5 -which btw lol i feel like I am following around your posts nodding. They are very kind worded and thoughtful:) Although I don't think it's god I think it's natural selection:)
I am not particularly keen with this being available, but I think the fact that it is available demonstrates what I think a PP mentioned about the issues with projected gender roles and stereotypes, so much so that gender stereotypes and profiling gets to begin even sooner, unconsciously at 20 week scans on a fetus before being born and then we wonder why boys and girls are just 'so different'
I don't think children should be profiled by their genitals, and choosing sex is in my mind taking it to the next level.
I am trying to word it to explain my thoughts on it clearly without condemning, because I don't condemn the treatment being available nor would I condemn those who choose to go ahead with the treatment.
I am taking a more socially conscious objection rather than moral.:)
[QUOTE=Zeltronica;4049933 Although I don't think it's god I think it's natural selection:)
[/QUOTE]
:iagree:
A PP said about how the quickest sperm wins the race and this is not the case I don't think when choosing a baby's gender.
Looshkin
05-09-2009, 18:23
True Lozza, but we could say in many cases technology is trumping natural selection, and we have thrown a spanner in the works of our own evolution.. some say de-evolution from medical intervention and technology that has allowed those to become ancestors that natural selection shouldn't/wouldn't have allowed to do so.
I approach it in a more objective scientific way but I imagine if someone close to me that I afford emotions too.. maybe I would feel differently. *shrug* :)
I do wonder what direction our species will go.
sockstealingpoltergeist
05-09-2009, 19:17
:no: No I don't think it's a good idea. I would never do it and I don't think anyone should be allowed to either.
Children are a gift and anyone who is lucky enough to have one, should know that they can be anything despite their genatalia, pigeon holing children based on gender is a bad idea in any form.
No God has a plan for everyone you cant just choose what you want if you are meant to have seven children and all boys you will and if you arent then you wont but I dont think I would ever choose my babies gender you get what you get, and if you cant be happy with that then you shouldnt have kids at all!
If a person is not happy, then isn't that just God's plan?
No God has a plan for everyone you cant just choose what you want!
Does freewill not exist in your world?
Still waiting.....:footinmouth: :detective: :laughing:
Looshkin
10-09-2009, 14:01
Does anyone know how this works? links?
do you they make embryos, confirm sex, donate the unwanted sex to science/freeze and insert the wanted sex.?
Or do they sort the sperm, make embyros and insert them without checking?
because I would think like with everything in life there would still be possible room for error?
Do you get a refund if you do not get the sex you wanted? I mean, what happens then?
I mean what if someone had 5 girls really wanted a boy and then didn't get the boy?
Do they sue for the costs of raising a boy they didn't want?
I know some may think thats ridiculous, but it's america people!
I've read about suing for the cost of living for twins because people only wanted 1 child!
The more I think about it the more room for
legal implications (particularly in the hands of humans!!)spring to mind, the more I think it's totally different to IVF for infertility, and a total ethical slippery slope to hair colour, eye, traits.. avoiding the "gay gene" :no:
sockstealingpoltergeist
10-09-2009, 14:11
I agree zel, and obviously there is room for error. I believe people using it will be setting themselves up for dissapointment.
This explains PGD really well..
http://www.in-gender.com/Gender-Selection/PGD/
And this is for microsort-
http://www.in-gender.com/Gender-Selection/Microsort/
I agree to it being available to balance families..or for genetic disease.
I have 2 girl and our third girl is on the way. I do love them very much and I dont resent them for being a girl.. They are the best. I love them for who they are.. I would never love a boy more then my girls Id love them equally.I have had two m/c as well.. But it doesnt take away the fact that I would love a son one day to complete my family...
I know many women that want a specific gender for many reasons. I know we are blessed to have any child and it is my main concern that bubs healthy.
I have met women online, 1 lady had gave birth to a beautiful baby boy at 20 wks he was stillborn, She now wants to have another boy.
Others have had 2- 7 boys/girls and now want to do this for a girl/boy. Some need it for genetic reasons, Some get server gender disappointment even though they love their babies. I know this may sound crazy but I think it would help some people from ppd or even aborting their baby early once finding out the gender wasn't what they wanted.
I think they should have it here in Australia available for those that need it..
I dont believe in picking hair color, eye color, skin color and so on.
I think they should have it here in Australia available for those that need it..
I understand gender disappointment, like I said in my OP, my friend has 4 boys. But I still think it should only be used if tehre is a genetic disorder.
I am glad it is not available in Australia, it is morally and ethically wrong IMO.
I have had a miscarriage at 8 weeks and carried twins to 19 weeks that had severe abnormailites. At the end of the day, I want my next baby to be healthy. Who cares if it is born with a penis or vagina.
I still think it is wrong for someone to choose a desired gender, even in my friend's case of having 4 boys. Every healthy baby, no matter what is between the legs is a miracle that everybody should embrace if they are lucky enough to be fertile.
Thats what I like about pgd they test for genetic disease, chromosomal abnormalities so you know you have a good chance to have a healthy baby.
I know its not easy for people having infertility problems or for those who have had a loss.. But then it isnt easy for others that have a reason to wanting pgd.
From a friend --
I don't think it is fair to tell someone that their pain is invalid because someone else's pain is greater.
So for me if its something that is going to make you and your family happy and content in life, fill any pain or hurt that you may be going through, go for it!
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