View Full Version : Circumcising so that he looks like his dad
Firstly, a son will never look like his father in every way. Boys rarely see their fathers penis past a young age, and no matter what, a grown man's penis looks very different in size and hair content from their baby boy's.
A father wanting his son circumcised just because he is, is a pretty poor argument. His parents made the decision to circumcise him in a culture very different from ours. Would you also have chosen not to breastfeed just because your mother did not? We are fortunate to have a lot more information available to us these days than our parents did. Our parents did not know then what we know now, which is that there is no medical reason to routinely circumcise baby boys.
I also believe a person is far more concerned about how their body compares to their peers rather than their parent.
What do you think?
Luna Lovegood
25-08-2009, 10:34
I think I agree with you.
my ob said to me after ds was born in regards to circumcision he generaly says to "do what daddys done" df is circumcised and i was always for wanting to get ds done...now im not so sure...im happy to leave ds' little fella alone. That said though it is personal choice so regardless of peoples reasoning behind it, it is their child so their choices shouldnt really be questioned.
I do wonder how often the father is thinking that he and his son will get together and compare??? :laughing:
neither of my boys are done - and I"m so incredibly happy with my decision ..
my ob said to me after ds was born in regards to circumcision he generaly says to "do what daddys done" df is circumcised and i was always for wanting to get ds done...now im not so sure...im happy to leave ds' little fella alone. That said though it is personal choice so regardless of peoples reasoning behind it, it is their child so their choices shouldnt really be questioned.
You're right it is a personal decision, the decision of the person who owns the penis. If the penis owner would like to be circumcised then he can choose to have the procedure done as an adult when it is actually much safer to do the procedure.
It's a hard thing for a circumcised man to get his head around I understand. I think that will be my next thread...
You're right it is a personal decision, the decision of the person who owns the penis. .
i do agree with you, i never saw it that way, i hope you didnt take too much offence to what i said
i do agree with you, i never saw it that way, i hope you didnt take too much offence to what i said Oh, not at all. I welcome all discussion. Discussing circumcision, is a great way to get us to reassess the way we think and feel about this issue. :)
Doing it so it like daddy :no: Doing it for health, religious reason :yes:. My two are done and I am very happy with that.
That said though it is personal choice so regardless of peoples reasoning behind it, it is their child so their choices shouldnt really be questioned.
Yep i agree.
My thoughts on the matter are "Each to their own"
Yep i agree.
My thoughts on the matter are "Each to their own" Yes mine too, that is again that each person should be able to make the decision about their own body.
My husband & I got my DS done, Health, Look, religious and also yes becuse his daddy has been, these were all part of our decision. And i am 100% happy that we did :)
I find it strange. Do fathers and sons sit around comparing their d*cks?:confused::laughing:
I find it strange. Do fathers and sons sit around comparing their d*cks?:confused::laughing:
nothing would surprise me any more :)
faroutbrusselsprout
25-08-2009, 11:54
OP, I would never have the guts to start this thread. But I SO agree with you. We discussed circ in mothers group in the second session and I got quite passioante saying that it was a ridiculous reason to have a baby boy done.
Then one girl said she was getting it done.......so he could look like his Daddy.. Hmmm, needless to say we haven't really 'clicked' :o
OP, I would never have the guts to start this thread. But I SO agree with you. We discussed circ in mothers group in the second session and I got quite passioante saying that it was a ridiculous reason to have a baby boy done.
Then one girl said she was getting it done.......so he could look like his Daddy.. Hmmm, needless to say we haven't really 'clicked' :o It's easy to talk about it online like this, but trust me talking about it IRL with my female circumcised friend was much harder.
It's so important that we talk about it.
I think this is the hardest issue to overcome when considering circumcision.
It is widely known, accepted and understood that there are no medical reason to routinely circumcise baby boys, but this issue is very emotional for men particularly.
You owe it to your child to remove all emotional influences when making a decision that involves removing a perfectly healthy, functioning part of his body.
People worry about how they will explain the physical differences between father and son's genitalia, when really it can be easily explained by saying once upon a time people thought it was best to remove that part, but now we know better so we don't. From what I hear most kids don't even notice anyway. It's really not as big an issue as people perceive it to be.
Looshkin
25-08-2009, 12:18
My partner suspects this is the reason he and his younger brother were circumcised (he calls is something else:()
But he has not yet dealt with it, he has a lot of unresolved anger towards his parents over this. He feels it was the ultimate betrayal for them to do that to him when he was a baby.
I had never been with a man who had been circed as most of the boys/men in my area and age group were not.. I think thats part of why it was hard for my DF also.
Either way, he feels that expressing his anger and feelings of betrayal at his parents for something they did 28 years ago is pointless, wont change anything and will probably just make them feel guilty or angry anyway.
I hope he finds a way to discuss this with his parents so he can get some closure.
I had never really thought about it before him, as most of the guys like I said were intact in my age group, my brothers werent cut and I didn't actually realise people really did that anymore.. and certainly didn't understand what it actually entailed. I have a lot more understanding now though. I guess I would be angry at my mother if she had altered my genitals so I didn't really know how it could be.. but I knew it was not the way it was supposed to be.. anyway.. thats my ramble about it.
Point being through discussion with my partner, we decided the safest course of action would be to leave it - knowing we had possibly caused that sort of feeling in our child who felt it pointless to discuss with us would be heartbreaking, and if they were angry at us for not doing it, they could simply have it done later in a safer way under GA at an age we felt they could make adequate decisions about life altering elective plastic surgery just as we would about daughters.
DS isn't circ'd, either is his father. And to be honest, it was not something I even considered having done.
DH and I had a talk about this a while ago and we both agreed. No son of mine will be circ'd until he is old enough to make that decision for himself. It's his body not ours, so it's his choice..
But if other people decide to have their son done, it's none of my business really.
RedPanda
25-08-2009, 13:50
Has anyone read about the legal review that's taking place in Tas at the moment? A panel of legal experts is examining whether parents have the legal right to make non-medical decisions involving surgical procedures for unconsenting minors. Apparently they're looking at whether there's scope for grown men to sue parents OR doctors when they're older and angry about being circumcised.
ETA: I'm usually an "each to their own" person too, but I see circumcision as a human rights issue. Either people have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies or they don't.
SassyMummy
25-08-2009, 14:08
I don't believe that "to look like daddy" is a valid reason.
I'm not about to give my 4-year-old breast implants so her boobs resemble mine.
I've said it before and I'll sa it again......if you are not into circ..if it's not your thing...why even think about? It's not your child, it's not your issue etc...it's the bussiness of the parents and should be kept that way :yes:
No-one I know goes looking into my sons pants to question me IRL..so why do it here :confused:
Has anyone read about the legal review that's taking place in Tas at the moment? A panel of legal experts is examining whether parents have the legal right to make non-medical decisions involving surgical procedures for unconsenting minors. Apparently they're looking at whether there's scope for grown men to sue parents OR doctors when they're older and angry about being circumcised.
ETA: I'm usually an "each to their own" person too, but I see circumcision as a human rights issue. Either people have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies or they don't.
:iagree:
delirium
25-08-2009, 14:23
Whilst I think some parents do circ to look like dad, I find it's a bit of a red herring. Living in a rural community most family and friends have circed for reasons such as infections, STD's, phimosis etc, not to look like dad.
I've said it before and I'll sa it again......if you are not into circ..if it's not your thing...why even think about? It's not your child, it's not your issue etc...it's the bussiness of the parents and should be kept that way :yes:
No-one I know goes looking into my sons pants to question me IRL..so why do it here :confused:
People are allowed to be curious.
It is an important issue to some.
Mathermy
25-08-2009, 14:26
Has anyone read about the legal review that's taking place in Tas at the moment? A panel of legal experts is examining whether parents have the legal right to make non-medical decisions involving surgical procedures for unconsenting minors. Apparently they're looking at whether there's scope for grown men to sue parents OR doctors when they're older and angry about being circumcised.
ETA: I'm usually an "each to their own" person too, but I see circumcision as a human rights issue. Either people have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies or they don't.
Exactly. I believe all children are worthy of bodily integrity and protection, not just my own.
I've said it before and I'll sa it again......if you are not into circ..if it's not your thing...why even think about? It's not your child, it's not your issue etc...it's the bussiness of the parents and should be kept that way :yes:
No-one I know goes looking into my sons pants to question me IRL..so why do it here :confused:
Because if everything was treated with "it's not my child, it's not my issue", there would be major problems.
My neighbour's locking her kids in the cupboard? Don't worry - not your child, not your issue.
While pro-circ people would argue that those are not comparable, anti-circ people would aruge that it's a violation of a child's rights, hence it's important to other people.
I've said it before and I'll sa it again......if you are not into circ..if it's not your thing...why even think about? It's not your child, it's not your issue etc...it's the bussiness of the parents and should be kept that way :yes:
No-one I know goes looking into my sons pants to question me IRL..so why do it here :confused:
I Agree :yelclap:
No-one I know goes looking into my sons pants to question me IRL..so why do it here :confused: I didn't start this thread to question you (or anyone) or to "look into your sons pants". It's my view that this particular reason for circumcising is a poor one, and I'd like anyone considering circumcision for their baby to reconsider, before making the decision based on a purely emotional reason.
Your son is already circumcised, nothing will change that. I am not judging you for what you have done, that wouldn't do anyone any good.
FYI I have spoken to my friends IRL about this issue, and I have no problem telling them the same thing I'm telling ppl here.
Has anyone read about the legal review that's taking place in Tas at the moment? A panel of legal experts is examining whether parents have the legal right to make non-medical decisions involving surgical procedures for unconsenting minors. Apparently they're looking at whether there's scope for grown men to sue parents OR doctors when they're older and angry about being circumcised.
Yes I did read about that. I've also read that it is getting increasingly difficult to find a doctor who will do it now..... for fear of legal action from the boy when he grows up & decides he didn't want it done.
There was an article just this week that was asking why a minority of people still believe male circumcision is acceptable, yet we all recoil in horror about female circumcision.
It also stated the rate of circumcision these days & it was way lower than I actually thought. It said only 2% of baby boys are now being done, compared to 90% in the 70's.
I think circ'd boys in the future are going to feel very out of place amongst their peers - so what if their dad was done - most of their friends wont be.
I never even considered having my son done. It is a medical procedure - why have an unnecessary medical procedure done on a tiny baby?
Pippi Longstocking
25-08-2009, 15:01
Because if everything was treated with "it's not my child, it's not my issue", there would be major problems.
My neighbour's locking her kids in the cupboard? Don't worry - not your child, not your issue.
While pro-circ people would argue that those are not comparable, anti-circ people would aruge that it's a violation of a child's rights, hence it's important to other people.
Spot on, accurate assumption :yes:
:p
Its funny though OP, you say about not seeing daddy naked past a young age, yet there are so many people on here who have already said they wonder around naked infront of their family.......:confused:
I didn't start this thread to question you (or anyone) or to "look into your sons pants". It's my view that this particular reason for circumcising is a poor one, and I'd like anyone considering circumcision for their baby to reconsider, before making the decision based on a purely emotional reason.
Your son is already circumcised, nothing will change that. I am not judging you for what you have done, that wouldn't do anyone any good.
FYI I have spoken to my friends IRL about this issue, and I have no problem telling them the same thing I'm telling ppl here.
You asked the question...and I answered it as I would IRL. I highly doubt anyone is going to come in here and answer this question in full truth as they will just get earbashed and bullied for their decision. I don't know about you or anyone else...but I sure do not see any little boy going about his life with the thought that he has been either misstreated or abused...holding his penis in agony etc..do you :confused:
Because if everything was treated with "it's not my child, it's not my issue", there would be major problems.
My neighbour's locking her kids in the cupboard? Don't worry - not your child, not your issue.
While pro-circ people would argue that those are not comparable, anti-circ people would aruge that it's a violation of a child's rights, hence it's important to other people.
It's as simple as....one is illegal...and one is NOT :)
Mummaholic
25-08-2009, 15:06
I think the notion of circing to look like dad is utterly preposterous. My brother and I didn't even realise dad was (bro is not) until we were both adults. We weren't staring intently at his penis day after day.
Because if everything was treated with "it's not my child, it's not my issue", there would be major problems.
My neighbour's locking her kids in the cupboard? Don't worry - not your child, not your issue.
While pro-circ people would argue that those are not comparable, anti-circ people would aruge that it's a violation of a child's rights, hence it's important to other people.
It's as simple as....one is illegal abuse...and one is NOT :)
RedPanda
25-08-2009, 15:07
Just out of curiosity mumof4, would you support my right as a parent to circumcise my daughter (in a proper surgical setting by a medical professional)? Is that my business?
Has anyone read about the legal review that's taking place in Tas at the moment? A panel of legal experts is examining whether parents have the legal right to make non-medical decisions involving surgical procedures for unconsenting minors. Apparently they're looking at whether there's scope for grown men to sue parents OR doctors when they're older and angry about being circumcised.
ETA: I'm usually an "each to their own" person too, but I see circumcision as a human rights issue. Either people have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies or they don't.
I have read about this Witchhazel. I think it would make it so much easier if they just removed the decision for parents altogether. I know that's another thread but as it stands, I think parents feel too much pressure to make a decision where really one shouldn't have to be made at all.
Edit oops referred to wrong poster how embarrassment
It's as simple as....one is illegal...and one is NOT :)
Just because something is legal, it doesn't necessarily make it right.;)
Mathermy
25-08-2009, 15:08
Mumof4: Actually a number of men have come forward on bubhub and spoken of their negative experiences with circumcision, I think it would be kindest not to minimise their trauma with our own assumptions about how they should/would feel.
Just out of curiosity mumof4, would you support my right as a parent to circumcise my daughter (in a proper surgical setting by a medical professional)? Is that my business?
I have zero interest in what is down your daughter's pants :)
The main concern is....girls are usually done at the age of 5...and they remember everything.
RedPanda
25-08-2009, 15:12
Okay. At least you're consistent.
Mumof4: Actually a number of men have come forward on bubhub and spoken of their negative experiences with circumcision, I think it would be kindest not to minimise their trauma with our own assumptions about how they should/would feel.
No...MY boys, MY problem :) I educate my boys about what has been done and why...I guess these men were done as a hospital procedure and nothing was explained to tham as they grew up :(
You asked the question...and I answered it as I would IRL. I highly doubt anyone is going to come in here and answer this question in full truth as they will just get earbashed and bullied for their decision. I don't know about you or anyone else...but I sure do not see any little boy going about his life with the thought that he has been either misstreated or abused...holding his penis in agony etc..do you :confused: Three ppl have stated their reasons.
There are cases of circumcision gone wrong, but that's not really what this about. Yes it's another reason not to have it done but I was trying to focus on this one reason in particular.
*Mumof4* - Good on you for having those strong feelings, i too agree and think that they are our children and we decide what is best for them. After all its not ILLEGAL.
Mathermy
25-08-2009, 15:19
No...MY boys, MY problem :) I educate my boys about what has been done and why...I guess these men were done as a hospital procedure and nothing was explained to tham as they grew up :(
Sorry Mumof4, I should have quoted to clarify my point but I was trying to avoid it. My comment was in response to this specifically
"but I sure do not see any little boy going about his life with the thought that he has been either misstreated or abused...holding his penis in agony etc..do you :confused: "
It seemed like you were implying that you were unaware of any men/boys who were unhappy with their parent's decision. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say it, just didn't sound as though you were referring to just your own sons in that statement.
Just because something is legal, it doesn't necessarily make it right.;)
See I dont get that lol If something was so badly frowned apon it SHOULD be made illegal.
RedPanda
25-08-2009, 15:20
I hope it doesn't come across as an attack on mumof4. I think a lot of people feel really strongly about circumcision and it's one of those areas that isn't really an "each to their own" thing. If people are against it, they're usually against it because they feel it's a violation of human rights and it's hard to just squash that and decide it's none of your business.
It's also not fair to jump on one person because they happen to be the single opposing voice, so mumof4, I hope you don't feel ganged up on.
In terms of it not being illegal, I give it a few years until it is. There are reviews under way, many doctors are already refusing to take the legal risk of doing it and I wouldn't be surprised if some parents feared legal ramifications in the future.
Three ppl have stated their reasons.
There are cases of circumcision gone wrong, but that's not really what this about. Yes it's another reason not to have it done but I was trying to focus on this one reason in particular.
Lots of things go wrong in life....you can't use that excuse :no:
No-one can and never will make me feel guilty for me making the decisions I have made. And like I keep saying...you'd have no idea they were circ'd inless you took a look. They are happy and healthy...or doesn't that matter?
I have zero interest in what is down your daughter's pants :)I am also glad to see you are at least consistent with your views in that respect.
The main concern is....girls are usually done at the age of 5...and they remember everything. I know you didn't bring it up but I didn't really want to get into female circ in this thread but I guess it's just inevitable. But anyway my friend and other Muslim females I have read about were circumcised as babies.
I never had any intention of circumcising our son, and I assumed my DH felt the same way. When I was about 30 weeks pregnant, it occurred to me that we'd not discussed it, so I said "If this baby is a boy, I don't want to circumcise him." and he said "hell no, (a bit that would be edited by a moderator) and besides, boys are much more likely to compare their penises to their friends' penises, not their dad's.". Excellent point. A child is much more likely to wonder why his penis doesn't look like all the other boys' than whether he looks like his dad, so if comparison and looking different are the issue, then I certainly wouldn't do it.
Not that I'd do it anyway, but you know what I mean.
See I dont get that lol If something was so badly frowned apon it SHOULD be made illegal.
Indeed.:yes: Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a while for the Parliament to change the law to keep up with public opinion.
there was a reference earlier in the thread about criminalising RIC, so the idea is out there.
I hope it doesn't come across as an attack on mumof4. I think a lot of people feel really strongly about circumcision and it's one of those areas that isn't really an "each to their own" thing. If people are against it, they're usually against it because they feel it's a violation of human rights and it's hard to just squash that and decide it's none of your business.
It's also not fair to jump on one person because they happen to be the single opposing voice, so mumof4, I hope you don't feel ganged up on.
In terms of it not being illegal, I give it a few years until it is. There are reviews under way, many doctors are already refusing to take the legal risk of doing it and I wouldn't be surprised if some parents feared legal ramifications in the future.
Like I said above..I won't feel guilty over MY decision no-matter what other's think. What's done is done and I have no regrets :)
This argument could go the same way come a lot of issues with raising a child. Unless the child is unhappy, negleted and abused...who's bussiness is it really?
Lots of things go wrong in life....you can't use that excuse :no:
No-one can and never will make me feel guilty for me making the decisions I have made. And like I keep saying...you'd have no idea they were circ'd inless you took a look. They are happy and healthy...or doesn't that matter?
I don't think the anti-circ lobby have any interest in making you feel guilty as what's done is done. It's more about people considering it for their future sons.
Mummaholic
25-08-2009, 15:26
I agree, it should and will be illegal soon.
Indeed.:yes: Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a while for the Parliament to change the law to keep up with public opinion.
there was a reference earlier in the thread about criminalising RIC, so the idea is out there.
PUBLIC OPINION - That is your opinion and maybe a majority of the group but not the individual parents opinion.
Just because it is an opinion doesnt mean its right or therefore needs to be made Illegal.
Each to there own i say!
I hope it doesn't come across as an attack on mumof4. I think a lot of people feel really strongly about circumcision and it's one of those areas that isn't really an "each to their own" thing. If people are against it, they're usually against it because they feel it's a violation of human rights and it's hard to just squash that and decide it's none of your business.
It's also not fair to jump on one person because they happen to be the single opposing voice, so mumof4, I hope you don't feel ganged up on.
:yes:
In terms of it not being illegal, I give it a few years until it is. There are reviews under way, many doctors are already refusing to take the legal risk of doing it and I wouldn't be surprised if some parents feared legal ramifications in the future. :iagree:
Lots of things go wrong in life....you can't use that excuse :no:
No-one can and never will make me feel guilty for me making the decisions I have made. And like I keep saying...you'd have no idea they were circ'd inless you took a look. They are happy and healthy...or doesn't that matter?
Please don't ever let anyone make you feel guilty. I'm sure you tried to do the best thing for your child as any mother would. I said it before, I'm not concerned with what has been done already but with what we can change in the future.
PUBLIC OPINION - That is your opinion and maybe a majority of the group but not the individual parents opinion.
Just because it is an opinion doesnt mean its right or therefore needs to be made Illegal.
Each to there own i say!
Public opinion is what drives policy and law. otherwise the politicians get thrown out on their ear.
if there is a push for it to be criminalised, then it will be.
Pippi Longstocking
25-08-2009, 15:32
Oh no no! Please don't take it that way, it wasn't intended to be hurtful :no:
If it makes you feel any better at all, I definitely don't believe in lycra! :p
ETA: I just wanted to add that at one point, I was also a depressed, uneducated single mother of four. Please don't assume that others are out to get you, it's not really fair. :no: I'm not out to get you, I didn't intend to hurt your feelings, if anything I was attempting to inject some humour into a serious thread. I'm sorry you took it badly.
That's right..it IS a discuss it thread..NOT an anti thread...so stop making those who DO circ feel threatend to respond.
RedPanda
25-08-2009, 15:37
mumof4, Miss Andry wasn't making fun of you. She loves puns and funny typos (we've all done them!). Seriously, that wasn't targeted and she'd do the same if it had been my typo.
Pippi Longstocking
25-08-2009, 15:38
mumof4, Miss Andry wasn't making fun of you. She loves puns and funny typos (we've all done them!). Seriously, that wasn't targeted and she'd do the same if it had been my typo.
Indeedily doodily! :p:laughing: I do love a good punny typo. :D
That's right..it IS a discuss it thread..NOT an anti thread...so stop making those who DO circ feel threatend to respond.
well, i'd suggest insulting people is making them feel threatened to respond.
in a debate, the anti-people put their view forward, the pro-people put their view forward.
it's helpful if insults are kept out of it.:yes:
CrankyAndTired
25-08-2009, 15:43
Trying to get my little man to sleep so I dont have time to read and respond properly..
Just thought I'd drop in a link to a NY Times article I read this morning... It seems they are considering re-introducting RIC in the US to assist in the prevention of transmiting HIV (from infection women to men).
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/health/policy/24circumcision.html?_r=2
Sooooooo meanwhile back at the ranch...what do ppl think of parents using this reason to make their decision for circ?
Do you think it says more about the father's insecurities for example?
Do you think it says more about the father's insecurities for example?
This decision was made having NOTHING to do with 'his' insecurities. I made the final decision...I took both boys there by myself.
Luna Lovegood
25-08-2009, 15:49
Sooooooo meanwhile back at the ranch...what do ppl think of parents using this reason to make their decision for circ?
Do you think it says more about the father's insecurities for example?
An excuse, when there is no better reason. Not that "to look like daddy is a reason".
Or maybe because they just did it with out consideration just because they thought it was the right hting to do with out actually weighing up options first...:confused:
I am speculating.
Trying to get my little man to sleep so I dont have time to read and respond properly..
Just thought I'd drop in a link to a NY Times article I read this morning... It seems they are considering re-introducting RIC in the US to assist in the prevention of transmiting HIV (from infection women to men).
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/health/policy/24circumcision.html?_r=2 Well as far as I know there are still many supporters of RIC in the states. I think the rates of RIC are about 50% pls feel free to correct me. So I'm not really surprised that the US is considering it. I'm also fairly sure WHO still recommend (but are reviewing) RIC to combat HIV in countries with high rates of hetero transmission. Last time I checked Australia didn't fit the bill hence why the RACP advise it's unnecessary. Anyways it probably deserves another thread.
Sooooooo meanwhile back at the ranch...what do ppl think of parents using this reason to make their decision for circ?
Do you think it says more about the father's insecurities for example?
I think it's more about tradition or an assumption of what worked for one generation is good for the next. or just doing what you know.
I think it would be presumptious for me to psychoanalyse every father of a circed boy.:laughing:
Sooooooo meanwhile back at the ranch...what do ppl think of parents using this reason to make their decision for circ?
Do you think it says more about the father's insecurities for example?
I only know one person that circ purely for the reason that they wanted their son to look like their dad and it was the mother that wanted it done. The father didn't give two hoots either way. :confused: I don't get it. I was pretty gobsmacked. And to top it off it was the baby's grandfather that did the procedure. I'm still just in shock over the whole thing TBH. I actually don't know what to think about it.
delirium
25-08-2009, 15:59
An excuse, when there is no better reason. Not that "to look like daddy is a reason".
Or maybe because they just did it with out consideration just because they thought it was the right hting to do with out actually weighing up options first...:confused:
I am speculating.
Why is it that we either have some strange perverted reason, and if we don't we haven't done the research?
I could make sweeping statements about those that abort, those that don't vax, those that hate the colour blue. It's not helpful to the debate or in trying to understand circers POV.
Please don't put us all in a one dimensional box. We are loving mums that have formed our opinions for a great range of reasons. I did it for my son. As an anti cicer I get that may make your toes curl but it's just that I have interpreted the data and my experiences, differently to you.
I only know one person that circ purely for the reason that they wanted their son to look like their dad and it was the mother that wanted it done. The father didn't give two hoots either way. :confused: I don't get it. I was pretty gobsmacked. And to top it off it was the baby's grandfather that did the procedure. I'm still just in shock over the whole thing TBH. I actually don't know what to think about it.Please tell me the grandfather was qualified, please...
That's right..it IS a discuss it thread..NOT an anti thread...so stop making those who DO circ feel threatend to respond.
i agree with this...but unfortunately it is one of those topics that usualy, in the end...gets quite heated. I have actualy learn't quite a bit from this thread so thanks to the op for starting this topic. IMO as the op said "just to look like daddy/just because daddys done" well that reason alone i dont think is good enough, this is why havent got my son done sooner, that and all the negativity that goes with haveing a circ;d child, its a really tough position to be put in for me personaly as df wants ds done but im not sure for the above reasons
Why is it that we either have some strange perverted reason, and if we don't we haven't done the research?
I could make sweeping statements about those that abort, those that don't vax, those that hate the colour blue. It's not helpful to the debate or in trying to understand circers POV.
Please don't put us all in a one dimensional box. We are loving mums that have formed our opinions for a great range of reasons. I did it for my son. As an anti cicer I get that may make your toes curl but it's just that I have interpreted the data and my experiences, differently to you.
She definitely wasn't implying that you are perverted and as she stated she was speculating that they haven't done the research, I imagine because it would be hard for her or anyone anti circ for that matter, to consider someone choosing to circumcise after reading info like the current statement from the RACP.
I think we all respect that we as mothers do what we think is best for our children with every decision we make, well I do anyway.
Delirium, it's a bit off topic but I'd love to know your answer if you feel comfortable enough answering that is, would the latest statement from The RACP change your mind if you had to make the decision again?
After extensive review of the literature, the Paediatrics & Child Health Division of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians has concluded that there is no medical reason for routine newborn male circumcision. I respect that you may wish not to answer.
Please tell me the grandfather was qualified, please...
Oh yes! He is one of the last GP's in the area that still performs circumcision's but he is qualified. If he wasn't I would have reported them to DOC's. I knew it was happening before it happened so could have stopped it if it was going to be a backyard job.
SassyMummy
25-08-2009, 16:16
Mumof4, I can see why this would leave you feeling attacked. It's easy to in a thread such as this, where people are so passionate about the issue... especially so when you're outnumbered like you seem to be.
There are probably many on this forum who have had their sons circumcised, who do not regret it, but these people will generally not voice their opinions in these types of threads because they often feel like every reason they give as to why they did it isn't good enough and there's no way they can win.
I am not anti-circumcision (though I probably wouldn't choose to have it done to my child), but I'm not FOR it either... but I can see how you must be feeling. People suggesting that something I have done to my child, something I had chosen to do because I felt it was the best thing I could have done for my child because I love him so very much... well, people suggesting that it is wrong, cruel and a violation of basic human rights... I think it's understandable why you'd feel the way you do.
I can see all points of views on this issue... but I just empathised with you on this... because I know it must make you feel kinda cr*ppy when threads like this pop up and nothing you say is ever good enough.
delirium
25-08-2009, 16:25
I imagine because it would be hard for her or anyone anti circ for that matter, to consider someone choosing to circumcise after reading info like the current statement from the RACP.
That's a value judgement to begin with.
I think we all respect that we as mothers do what we think is best for our children with every decision we make, well I do anyway.
With respect, I totally disagree. I have been gutted to read some of the stuff that has been said about those that circ on here, and not just "I don't agree", but REALLY nasty, judgemental, cruel stuff. I'm not speaking of you Bada, but I don't think some here DO think we love our kids and have just tried to do right by our kids.
I liken it to the experience of non or delayed vaxxers, who are constantly told they are uniformed, reckless and are infecting others children (I'm a vaxxer but 100% believe in each to their own). Many end up hurt and angry at people's lack of compassion and understanding.
Delirium, it's a bit off topic but I'd love to know your answer if you feel comfortable enough answering that is, would the latest statement from The RACP change your mind if you had to make the decision again?
If I had the choice again, based on this new research. Quite honestly I'm not sure, probably yes. Stats are not perfect or free from bias. I'm sure I'll be swamped saying this, but I DO believe there IS health benefits to circumcision. There is also lots of research out there to say that too. But for some reason those studies are always flawed and the ones that are anti circ are truth.
If you met me IRL Bada, you would think I'm a loving, caring mummy, and I am. My response to these threads is not to argue, but to try to change people's perceptions of those that circ. I love my son to bits, now I get you don't agree that I made the right decision, but I made the decision with only my sons best interests at heart.
Surely you can understand that, even if you don't agree? :shakehands:
delirium
25-08-2009, 16:36
There are probably many on this forum who have had their sons circumcised, who do not regret it, but these people will generally not voice their opinions in these types of threads because they often feel like every reason they give as to why they did it isn't good enough and there's no way they can win.
That's very true from my experience. There have been quite a few 'Did you circ you son' polls since I've been a member and usually the results are around 25-30% circ. Yet few respond to these threads bc they know what the result will be. It is very much a please explain your reasons so we can pick them apart type scenario.
With respect, I totally disagree. I have been gutted to read some of the stuff that has been said about those that circ on here, and not just "I don't agree", but REALLY nasty, judgemental, cruel stuff. I'm not speaking of you Bada, but I don't think some here DO think we love our kids and have just tried to do right by our kids.
I liken it to the experience of non or delayed vaxxers, who are constantly told they are uniformed, reckless and are infecting others children (I'm a vaxxer but 100% believe in each to their own). Many end up hurt and angry at people's lack of compassion and understanding. I'm sorry you've felt that way. I too am a vaxxer because I think it's the best thing for my child but of course I believe that those who are anti vax believe they are also doing the best for their child. I'm pretty thick skinned I don't get offended easily so it's easy to forget how personally some take things.
If I had the choice again, based on this new research. Quite honestly I'm not sure, probably yes. Stats are not perfect or free from bias. I'm sure I'll be swamped saying this, but I DO believe there IS health benefits to circumcision. There is also lots of research out there to say that too. But for some reason those studies are always flawed and the ones that are anti circ are truth. Well prepare yourselves ppl, there are benefits to circ! (:eek: shock horror!) but the statement made by RACP has taken into account the risks involved and concluded that the benefits don't out weigh the risks. The risk of complications arising from circ is around 2-10% whereas the risk of things that circ is used to prevent like UTI's is up to around 2% I think. Anyway my point being that I understand why you came to the conclusion you did.
If you met me IRL Bada, you would think I'm a loving, caring mummy, and I am. My response to these threads is not to argue, but to try to change people's perceptions of those that circ. I love my son to bits, now I get you don't agree that I made the right decision, but I made the decision with only my sons best interests at heart.
Surely you can understand that, even if you don't agree? :shakehands: Of course. No mother in her right mind would do something she didn't think was in her child's best interest. And just like you I don't write this stuff to argue, I don't wish to offend or guilt but just to put info out there and get ppl thinking. :shakehands:
ch33kymonk3y
25-08-2009, 16:42
Well I've been told if we have another child and its a boy then he WILL be circumcised and this is one decision he would insist on making :rolleyes:. His reasoning was not because of the 'like father like son' but for the fact its more hygienic.
So part of me is scared that if we do have a boy that this will happen. As a personal preference (my DH is and my first bf was but another bf was not) I prefer circ'd and was a little freaked out by my non-circ'd bf...
HOWEVER this doesn't mean I agree with circumcising a child and taking away his choice, I would hate for my child to resent me for doing it! :(
delirium
25-08-2009, 16:43
Of course. No mother in her right mind would do something she didn't think was in her child's best interest. And just like you I don't write this stuff to argue, I don't wish to offend or guilt but just to put info out there and get ppl thinking. :shakehands:
I hear ya. I have no objection to the discussion of RIC, and I have absolutely no objection to those that choose not to circ.
It's the emotive, nasty comments that hurt me rather than an objection to the procedure. It is only for our great mods, that many don't see those comments as they are quickly removed. But for those that see it, it really hurts, ykwim?
happyluvy
25-08-2009, 16:48
i have a question - i have never met a male who resented their own penis - either circ, or uncirc... so those of you who know of these men, or could maybe explain it, why would a man be ashamed/embarassed/or resent that they are or arent circ?
My DH is circ, and he is not ashamed of it in any way, infact he is umm proud of it :p
Just curious, thats all!
OK...what annoys me the most is...those who DON'T even have a son...who aren't even is a postion to make a choice..are here making a fuss over something that has nothing to do with them :mad:
Fine..if you see a boy out n the playground, or at school or whereevr...suffering from circ, sure...go ahead and speak up. But it's NOT the case. You just simply want to argue....WHY :confused:
As I said before...as many will say...do you actually see our sons as abused?
CrankyAndTired
25-08-2009, 16:53
I have a friend who was un-circ'd and HATED it. Ended up having it done electively at 21 and was in a lot of pain for a couple of months after.. he really wished it had been done for him as a baby, to save him the embarrasment as an adult.
My DH is circ, and he is not ashamed of it in any way, infact he is umm proud of it :p
Yes...mine too! He cannot believe the stuff that goes on here about it. He is proud to be circ'd.
I have a friend who was un-circ'd and HATED it. Ended up having it done electively at 21 and was in a lot of pain for a couple of months after.. he really wished it had been done for him as a baby, to save him the embarrasment as an adult.
Same here...only he was 18 at the time. He was soo embarrased NOT circ'd and went and got it done himself...only to WISH he was done as a babe!
happyluvy
25-08-2009, 16:58
Yes...mine too! He cannot believe the stuff that goes on here about it. He is proud to be circ'd.
my DH cant believe the stuff that goes on here about alot of things, i have a ball updating him on the goss around here :laughing:
OK...what annoys me the most is...those who DON'T even have a son...who aren't even is a postion to make a choice..are here making a fuss over something that has nothing to do with them :mad:
Fine..if you see a boy out n the playground, or at school or whereevr...suffering from circ, sure...go ahead and speak up. But it's NOT the case. You just simply want to argue....WHY :confused:
As I said before...as many will say...do you actually see our sons as abused? Thought we covered this a few pages ago Mof4, lets not go around in circles.
10 pages long...sorry I don't have the time to sit here and read them ALL.
Hence it's still a GOOD question hey!!!!
I don't breastfeed...my kids are 3 +...how silly would I be to butt into their bussiness if it's none of mine!
Mathermy
25-08-2009, 17:08
i have a question - i have never met a male who resented their own penis - either circ, or uncirc... so those of you who know of these men, or could maybe explain it, why would a man be ashamed/embarassed/or resent that they are or arent circ?
My DH is circ, and he is not ashamed of it in any way, infact he is umm proud of it :p
Just curious, thats all!
Do a bubhub search happy if you are genuinely interested and you will find examples of men who have shared their experiences, I'm not going to name names because I think that would be a bit yuk using someone else's trauma to substantiate my own argument :(
and as for your question Mo4, I do not believe your child has been abused but I do believe their rights to bodily autonomy have been breached. I say that not to be hurtful, rather because you asked.
As someone explained to you earlier (I'm not sure whether you chose to acknowledge it or not) people see childhood bodily integrity as a human rights issue. Whilst you have expressed your indifference to both male and female circumcision, many people find the idea abhorrent. I'm sure there are human rights issues that do touch your heart and if you can possibly relate to that experience you might be able to see why circumcision is debated so passionately by some.
10 pages long...sorry I don't have the time to sit here and read them ALL.
Hence it's still a GOOD question hey!!!!
I don't breastfeed...my kids are 3 +...how silly would I be to butt into their bussiness if it's none of mine!
It was you who asked it the first time
I've said it before and I'll sa it again......if you are not into circ..if it's not your thing...why even think about? It's not your child, it's not your issue etc...it's the bussiness of the parents and should be kept that way :yes:
And then the second time with different words but essentially the same message ie not your kid not your issue
OK...what annoys me the most is...those who DON'T even have a son...who aren't even is a postion to make a choice..are here making a fuss over something that has nothing to do with them :mad:
Fine..if you see a boy out n the playground, or at school or whereevr...suffering from circ, sure...go ahead and speak up. But it's NOT the case. You just simply want to argue....WHY :confused:
So no it's not a good question, partly because it's been covered already. Anti circ ppl generally regard circ as a human rights issue. Most ppl don't regard breastfeeding as a human rights issue, but just because you're not currently bfing or have never does not preclude you from having an opinion and sharing it.
Again, I'm not here to argue I'm here so ppl think about it and get all the info required to make a fully informed decision. Would you rather the whole section on circ be modded by you and everyone could just read ""it's none of anyone else's business. the end."?
So, now that your kids are circed, you are no longer in the position to make a choice yourself so why are you here? By your own logic you shouldn't be.
i have a question - i have never met a male who resented their own penis - either circ, or uncirc... so those of you who know of these men, or could maybe explain it, why would a man be ashamed/embarassed/or resent that they are or arent circ?
My DH is circ, and he is not ashamed of it in any way, infact he is umm proud of it :p
Just curious, thats all! I think this gives a good answer to half your question
First of all, you need to understand that circumcised men are cornered on this issue. They were circumcised without their consent and have no inherent knowledge of what being intact is like. Even though they rarely will discuss the issue, they are keenly aware that they have been surgically altered in a very private way. There are several ways for a man to deal with this issue but the safest way, psychologically speaking, is to believe at all cost that the surgery performed on them was an enhancement and is preferred by women. Confirmation of this belief is essential to their sexual self-image. Do I need to tell you that sexual self-image is a major issue for men? Didn't think so. There are many blogs from guys who are unhappy (to say the least) with their circumcisions.
*crickets*
Me
So, now that your kids are circed, you are no longer in the position to make a choice yourself so why are you here? By your own logic you shouldn't be.So, no response then? Feel free to withdraw your comment Mof4 :)
I have a friend who was un-circ'd and HATED it. Ended up having it done electively at 21 and was in a lot of pain for a couple of months after.. he really wished it had been done for him as a baby, to save him the embarrasment as an adult. At least he had the choice :thumbsup: I'm all for circ if that's what someone wants to do with their body.
Hearing how much pain it caused him makes me wonder how much pain a baby is in but can't tell us about :( At least he got anesthetic.
I have a friend who was un-circ'd and HATED it. Ended up having it done electively at 21 and was in a lot of pain for a couple of months after.. he really wished it had been done for him as a baby, to save him the embarrasment as an adult.
Thats what I think abotu my son, if he really wants it done he can get it done when he is older. Of course he will be in pain but if thats what he wants then he can do it later in life.
Looshkin
25-08-2009, 17:47
Same here...only he was 18 at the time. He was soo embarrased NOT circ'd and went and got it done himself...only to WISH he was done as a babe!
I don't think a few weeks/month of pain is an adequate argument for taking away the choice - it appears to be a "I did it to protect them from the pain later" which seems so bizarely twisted I don't see any logic?
"Oh I thought you might be mad at me that you had to be in pain so I made a life long, permanent decision on the state of your genitalia when you were a baby, before you would remember the pain."
Can't you see how assumptive... that is? The pain would still be felt. ?
Children feel pain just like adults do, to make out that children would cope with a medical procedure better is so bizare to me, the argument that they won't remember it is even more bizzare??!
To make the assumption that your son will feel this way, to assume your son would want to alter his healthy functioning genitals, seems to be.. well.. assumptive and projecting your own personal issues onto someone elses body in form of a irreplaceable, permanent surgical procedure and then justifying it with a load of rubbish about 'sparing them pain they will remember'?
I think it's hugely assumptive to take that choice away and I wonder how many sons will resent the decision but never tell their parents in fear of upsetting them as my DF feels.
Medicare tells us men who are left intact *do not* in large numbers go and get their foreskins cut off later in life, unless they have medical issues.. so if it's so flippin great and important, why doesn't everyone do it?
Luna Lovegood
25-08-2009, 18:10
Why is it that we either have some strange perverted reason, and if we don't we haven't done the research?
I could make sweeping statements about those that abort, those that don't vax, those that hate the colour blue. It's not helpful to the debate or in trying to understand circers POV.
Please don't put us all in a one dimensional box. We are loving mums that have formed our opinions for a great range of reasons. I did it for my son. As an anti cicer I get that may make your toes curl but it's just that I have interpreted the data and my experiences, differently to you.
Sorry, I wasn't say that all people who circ'd didn't research, or that all who did it were perverted. I am speculating specifically about people who use the excuse of "to look like dad".
OK...what annoys me the most is...those who DON'T even have a son...who aren't even is a postion to make a choice..are here making a fuss over something that has nothing to do with them :mad:
Fine..if you see a boy out n the playground, or at school or whereevr...suffering from circ, sure...go ahead and speak up. But it's NOT the case. You just simply want to argue....WHY :confused:
As I said before...as many will say...do you actually see our sons as abused?
Ummm...
I care about those in poverty, yet I am not, nor is anyone I know.
I care about animals, yet I am not an animal.
I care about child abuse, and yet my child is not abused.
I care about drug and alcohol rehabilitation, and yet I, nor anyone close to me is addicted to drug.
I care about research relating to neonatal care for premmies, yet I don't have a premmie.
I care about womans rights, yet I work fulltime and earn more than average in a male dominated industry. My partner is a SAHD.
I care about many things that don't relate to me, but I feel that someone should stand up for them, and everyone has the right to an opinion, and freedom of speech. Why do you want to suppress my right because I don't have a son?
It seems they are considering re-introducting RIC in the US to assist in the prevention of transmiting HIV (from infection women to men).
There is no way I would circ a child to prevent HIV "just in case." I will be teaching my children to use protection if they are going to have sex and not just to prevent AIDS and other STIs but unwanted pregnancy as well - a circumsized penis does not do this.
happyluvy
25-08-2009, 18:15
Do a bubhub search happy if you are genuinely interested and you will find examples of men who have shared their experiences, I'm not going to name names because I think that would be a bit yuk using someone else's trauma to substantiate my own argument :(
I am genuinly interested... And thanks i will have a squiz :)
I think this gives a good answer to half your question
There are many blogs from guys who are unhappy (to say the least) with their circumcisions.
Ill have to check out the blogs when i have more time. But thanks for the pointer :)
Now i think this might be a tad off topic, sorry if it is for a whole other thread, but im just trying to use it as an example of some sort - when it comes to say peircing the ears of a baby girl, is that ok? or does that go against her rights to choose to have that done or not?
Mathermy
25-08-2009, 18:17
I am genuinly interested... And thanks i will have a squiz :)
Ill have to check out the blogs when i have more time. But thanks for the pointer :)
Now i think this might be a tad off topic, sorry if it is for a whole other thread, but im just trying to use it as an example of some sort - when it comes to say peircing the ears of a baby girl, is that ok? or does that go against her rights to choose to have that done or not?
Crosses the same boundaries for me, though I must say i find the idea even more bizarre because there simply is no other plausible excuse for it other than cosmetics.
Crosses the same boundaries for me, though I must say i find the idea even more bizarre because there simply is no other plausible excuse for it other than cosmetics. Same for me. The two are physically worlds apart I know, but the same theory goes. Strangely enough I think I might have polled it once (:o)... will try and dig it up later.
happyluvy
25-08-2009, 18:24
hmm i find this all interesting....
sockstealingpoltergeist
25-08-2009, 18:34
My husband is done, and never wanted our son done. He is against it and fully understands that being circ'd does not protect you from HIV or cancer etc. He also realised that our son would not be over six foot with a beard etc.. It would be ridiculous to circ him to look like dad.
misskittyfantastico
25-08-2009, 19:08
Now i think this might be a tad off topic, sorry if it is for a whole other thread, but im just trying to use it as an example of some sort - when it comes to say peircing the ears of a baby girl, is that ok? or does that go against her rights to choose to have that done or not?
I believe that we must have the right to be in charge of what happens to our bodies. I believe these rights begin the minute we are born. So, yeah, RIC, piercings, tattoos, etc, goes against my beliefs.
In terms of the OP, I know MANY, many people (family included) who have circumcised their infant sons for this very reason. I don't think people who choose RIC are *insert horrible adjective here*,I think (and KNOW) that they love their kids, are devoted, kind parents who made a. I just don't think the choice should be available. I think RIC should be, and soon will be illegal.
Looshkin
25-08-2009, 19:11
In terms of the OP, I know MANY, many people (family included) who have circumcised their infant sons for this very reason. I don't think people who choose RIC are *insert horrible adjective here*,I think (and KNOW) that they love their kids, are devoted, kind parents who made a. I just don't think the choice should be available. I think RIC should be, and soon will illegal.
Totally agree.:yes:
Hopefully Tassie sets precedent.
Now i think this might be a tad off topic, sorry if it is for a whole other thread, but im just trying to use it as an example of some sort - when it comes to say peircing the ears of a baby girl, is that ok? or does that go against her rights to choose to have that done or not?
As promised:
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=262982&highlight
And a spin off
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=263006&highlight
:detective: Strangely I didn't add polls... I must not have been feeling well :laughing:
I think RIC should be, and soon will be illegal. :yes: and to quote myself (:laughing:)
I think it would make it so much easier if they just removed the decision for parents altogether. I know that's another thread but as it stands, I think parents feel too much pressure to make a decision where really one shouldn't have to be made at all.
happyluvy
25-08-2009, 20:34
As promised:
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=262982&highlight
And a spin off
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=263006&highlight
:detective: Strangely I didn't add polls... I must not have been feeling well :laughing:
thanks for that... i had a really quick read thru as am busy right now...
i am going to admit though, that even after skiming thru those threads you just linked, and after these numerous threads going around about circ, i still stand by my own POV... BUT i do see the other side too and how they reason their discisions.
Mummaholic
25-08-2009, 21:20
*mum of 4*, I have two boys, so it is of personal relevance to me. I was against circumcision before they were born though, I too see it as a human rights issue.
For the record, as per the OP we ARE talking about people who circumcise FOR NO OTHER REASON than to look like daddy.
sandy cheeks
25-08-2009, 21:48
I think doing it to look like dad is stupid TBH
But I dont think making it illegal will help just make it go underground which is worse.
I would rather parents take their child to a medical clinic to get it done by a doctor than get it done in the home or at a place of worship by a priest,rabbi or imam which happen now and would happen alot more if circ was illegal.
Public opinion is what drives policy and law. otherwise the politicians get thrown out on their ear.
if there is a push for it to be criminalised, then it will be.
What about all those people who want the Gay Marriage law change, nothing is happening there, and there is a lot of public opinion about it.
lealea79
26-08-2009, 06:51
oh my gosh... i grew up in a house hold of girls so i guess this issue never really was spoken about and never had many relationships... then i met dp who isnt circumsised.. and it wasnt until i was about 34 weeks that someone asked me if i was getting ds done.. it had never even crossed my mind if i was going to do it (which i havent).. i really probably should have read a bit more about it after they had asked me,
HelenHasTwins
26-08-2009, 07:27
Doing it so it like daddy :no: Doing it for health, religious reason :yes:. My two are done and I am very happy with that.
:iagree:
babies dont have religions by the way
What about all those people who want the Gay Marriage law change, nothing is happening there, and there is a lot of public opinion about it.
Tell me about it! the majority of people support gay marriage but nothing has happened. I assume the government is loath to p*ss off its conservative voters. It's ridiculous. Anyway, that's a whole other thread.
My point was that (in a perfect world) laws reflect publc opinion, so it shouldn't matter how vocal a minority is, if the majority believes something then the majority should be able to lobby the politicians into voting in new laws. but politics, unfortunately, doesn't work perfectly. there are certain powerful groups who the government tries not to annoy.
And i think it often takes the lawmakers a while to catch up with public opinion, because they try to please everybody to keep their jobs!
Opinionated
26-08-2009, 08:05
babies don't have religions by the way
Exactly, and the vast majority don't have any health issues requiring this either.
Exactly, and the vast majority don't have any health issues requiring this either.
:iagree:
100%
sockstealingpoltergeist
26-08-2009, 08:18
*mum of 4*, I have two boys, so it is of personal relevance to me. I was against circumcision before they were born though, I too see it as a human rights issue.
For the record, as per the OP we ARE talking about people who circumcise FOR NO OTHER REASON than to look like daddy.
Me too. I thought it was an important issue before my son was born. I also know someone who was recently pressured into it because of this very reason. It makes me so sad.:(
Fuchsia!
26-08-2009, 08:23
Its the stupidest reason i could ever think of. Stupid stupid.
Yep i agree.
My thoughts on the matter are "Each to their own"
I so agree with you- each person to their own genitalia.:yes:
Doing it because the father is done is a fairly weak excuse- I mean we dont go to have our boys and then whip out a bag of pubic hair to stick on them do we? Lets face it- no little boy is ever going to look like his father.
Mathermy
26-08-2009, 08:40
I so agree with you- each person to their own genitalia.:yes:
Doing it because the father is done is a fairly weak excuse- I mean we dont go to have our boys and then whip out a bag of pubic hair to stick on them do we? Lets face it- no little boy is ever going to look like his father.
"whip out a bag of pubic hair..." Best quote of the day, you are awesome :yelclap::D
happyluvy
26-08-2009, 08:42
babies dont have religions by the way
im a little confused on what that ^ means :confused:
are you saying that a child shouldnt be done for religous reasons either?
im a little confused on what that ^ means :confused:
are you saying that a child shouldnt be done for religous reasons either? Yes that is what he is essentially saying. The baby has not decided on the religion himself so why should somebody else be able to sacrifice a part of his body in the name of their chosen religion? My female friend was circumcised as a baby for religious reasons (Muslim, please start another thread if anyone would like to argue that) most Australians would not agree with a girl being circumcised for religious reasons so the same should go for boys. The laws are quite sexist in this regard.
happyluvy
26-08-2009, 08:56
ok ok i was just asking :o
im not even going to go there on that one, thats a big can of worms
ok ok i was just asking :o
im not even going to go there on that one, thats a big can of worms :laughing: The whole topic is one big can of worms. It goes deep and there are so many facets to this argument.
But ask away. If you don't ask you don't learn. And if you're considering it for your son you'll feel much better whichever way you go if you do all the research you can beforehand.
Mummaholic
26-08-2009, 09:01
To me, the cans are of equal size ;)
happyluvy
26-08-2009, 09:06
:laughing: The whole topic is one big can of worms. It goes deep and there are so many facets to this argument.
But ask away. If you don't ask you don't learn. And if you're considering it for your son you'll feel much better whichever way you go if you do all the research you can beforehand.
to be honest im a little scared to ask questions around here sometimes :laughing:
To me, the cans are of equal size ;)
thats true !
CrankyAndTired
26-08-2009, 09:08
As parents, we make decisions for our children every day. We decide what they eat, what they wear, what religion (if any) they are brought up in, where they are schooled - and what preventative measures (if any) we are to take for their health and well being.
I am pro-vax and pro-circ. They are the decisions my DH and I have made in the interest of our son's health and well being.
Quite frankly I'm getting a bit tired of all the pro-circ judgment. We are parents doing what we believe is best for our kids. Sure, lets discuss our decisions by all means but acting like parents who circ their kids are mindless morons who are out to abuse their children's basic rights is getting a bit old.
Hell, I am staunchly pro-life but I can still at least try to see where the pro-choice ppl are coming from.. rather than just sit back and marvel at how moronic their views are.
I really want to whip this guy out - > :rolleyes: but he IS rude and I dont want to be rude, just honest and direct.. so instead I'll end with..
Peace :sunshine:
Pippi Longstocking
26-08-2009, 09:16
Hell, I am staunchly pro-life but I can still at least try to see where the pro-choice ppl are coming from.. rather than just sit back and marvel at how moronic their views are.
Ex-queeze me? That was a lot ruder than any eye-rolling smiley could ever hope to be.
Quite frankly I'm getting a bit tired of all the pro-circ judgment. We are parents doing what we believe is best for our kids. Sure, lets discuss our decisions by all means but acting like parents who circ their kids are mindless morons who are out to abuse their children's basic rights is getting a bit old.
As far as I see it, I and most have refrained from judging parents who have circumcised their child. I've said it many times, there's nothing to be gained from judging a parent who had circumcised their child. It's a waste of everyone's time and energy. The focus here is on ppl deciding whether or not to do it in the future. I have said it again and again, that a parent who chooses circ for their child is obviously doing what they think is best for their child. Even a parent who did it for the reason this discussion focusses on, I imagine did it because they thought it would be better for their child emotionally if they looked like daddy.
Who ever acted like "parents who circ their kids are mindless morons"?
The thread is here to offer another view point livly, something I see you talk about so much eg "I appreciate a wide variety of views" how many times have you typed that here on BH?
If you don't appreciate open discussions on this particular topic that's fair enough, but it doesn't mean bubhub should be censored for everyone else. You have the option of not reading.
As parents, we make decisions for our children every day. :
yes, but which body parts they are allowed to keep should not be one of them. bodily integrity is a human right. its as simple as that
Baldie's Mum
26-08-2009, 09:21
:no: Not happening in my house.......
CrankyAndTired
26-08-2009, 09:29
Bada I DO appreciate a wide variety of views on Bubhub... what I don't appreciate is judgment dressed as "discussion."
You started a thread to target and judge people for the "excuses" they give for circumsizing their child. Since when do I need an "excuse" to justify my decision to you or anyone?!
Discussion is one thing, starting threads to condem someone else's decision - or the reasons they give - is another thing.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory. Simply trying to provide the perspective of a pro-circ mum reading your thread.
Many comments have got me thinking... They're generally not constructive, they make huge assumptions and as far as I see it do nothing but make the thread go in circles, which could only have one purpose which is to have the thread closed.
Please if you have nothing constructive to add and that goes for pro-circ or anti-circ then don't contribute at all.
CrankyAndTired
26-08-2009, 09:34
Try for one second to imagine that I started a thread in the discussion area about the "excuses" women give to have abortions.
It would be judgmental and offensive.
Well so is a thread about the "excuses" a mother gives to circ her son..
CrankyAndTired
26-08-2009, 09:36
The thread is here to offer another view point livly, something I see you talk about so much eg "I appreciate a wide variety of views" how many times have you typed that here on BH?
I find that comment fairly aggressive. I am not allowed to express how I find diverse opinions valuble? While expressing a different opinion to yours?
Luna Lovegood
26-08-2009, 09:37
Bada I DO appreciate a wide variety of views on Bubhub... what I don't appreciate is judgment dressed as "discussion."
You started a thread to target and judge people for the "excuses" they give for circumsizing their child. Since when do I need an "excuse" to justify my decision to you or anyone?!
Discussion is one thing, starting threads to condem someone else's decision - or the reasons they give - is another thing.
I'm not trying to be inflammatory. Simply trying to provide the perspective of a pro-circ mum reading your thread.
I believe the thread was started directly regarding parents who circ their child to "look like dad" and discuss the reasoning behind that as quite frankly, it's mind blowing to use that as a reason.
Unless your sole reason for your son being circ'd is "to look like daddy" then I can't see how you would be offended...:)
.
Hell, I am staunchly pro-life but I can still at least try to see where the pro-choice ppl are coming from.. rather than just sit back and marvel at how moronic their views are.
I started a thread about this the other day to be enlightened, not trying to start a debate but I was genuinely interested to know why those who are staunchly pro-life (all for the rights of an unborn child) yet once baby is here, take away the rights by cutting a piece of skin...that IMO is a big contradiction..where is the baby's rights in that???
Luna Lovegood
26-08-2009, 09:39
I started a thread about this the other day to be enlightened, not trying to start a debate but I was genuinely interested to know why those who are staunchly pro-life (all for the rights of an unborn child) yet once baby is here, take away the rights by cutting a piece of skin...that IMO is a big contradiction..where is the baby's rights in that???
Yanno, I have not looked at it from that angle, but that is a very interesting POV. You should start a thread on it :thumbsup:
I find that comment fairly aggressive. I am not allowed to express how I find diverse opinions valuble? While expressing a different opinion to yours? I would be happy to hear your opinion on the issue of circumcision and what you think of the argument in focus here.
I don't appreciate your assuming that I think a parent who made the decision to circ is a moron, because it couldn't be further from the truth.
I don't appreciate that you say I started this thread "to target and judge people for the "excuses"".
Remember I have friends and family too, who have chosen to circumcise their children. I don't think any less of them.
Yanno, I have not looked at it from that angle, but that is a very interesting POV. You should start a thread on it :thumbsup:
I did and only had about 10 replies :detective: :detective: :detective: and no pro-lifer replied from what I can remember :laughing:
Again if someone finds something aggressive or offensive then please report it instead of cluttering up a valuable thread
Luna Lovegood
26-08-2009, 09:51
Lozza...link me to it?
This threads has drifted a way off target. The OP relates to parents who choose circ because they want the baby to be like daddy and this is the main reason. General circ discussions deserve a thread of their own.
Any more off topic posts and the thread will be closed.
Lozza...link me to it?
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=280752
Sorry to get off topic.
Back to the OP now
I believe the thread was started directly regarding parents who circ their child to "look like dad" and discuss the reasoning behind that as quite frankly, it's mind blowing to use that as a reason.
Unless your sole reason for your son being circ'd is "to look like daddy" then I can't see how you would be offended...:)
:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
OK...what annoys me the most is...those who DON'T even have a son...who aren't even is a postion to make a choice..are here making a fuss over something that has nothing to do with them :mad:
So mumof4 in case you missed it, because you don't have an intact son and therefor you are not in the position to make a choice, you shouldn't be here making a fuss. By your own logic.
Mumof4, I quoted you hoping through being nudged you'd reassess your statement. I thought you might realise you are entitled to discuss the issue regardless of if it will directly impact your own children, as am I. You have no obligation to respond, absolutely none. Tis a shame you couldn't respond constructively though.
Everything else has been pretty well covered by other posters, thanks.
I won't bother reporting you though because I'm not concerned about your comments, other than the fact that they are off topic, which I imagine will be taken care of by moderators.
Lastcenturymum
28-08-2009, 02:19
That's all folks! And spin off threads started on the on the same topic just to continue the argument will also be closed/deleted.
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