Argument with DP

[Boobycino]

DP and I had a real argument last night. We almost never argue, maybe we'd had 3 arguments in 3 years. We discuss and we definately disagree, but we do always keep it calm and civil... but last night I got really mad at him.

I'd gotten up with bub at 5am, then gone to a baby sitting job at 8:30am and worked a whopping 10 hours, so I was fairly well exhausted.

Somehow through me talking about cleaning when I was baby sitting DP got onto me about how messy I am. OKAY... I wont dent it, I'm kinda a messy person, BUT I do clean up after myself. I also do ALL the grocery shopping, ALL the cooking, ALL the dishes ALL the laundry and ALL the baby care, night and day. So I dont really have the time or energy or care to worry about being tidy. Plus, I have a 9 month old mess monster to care for during the day.

So anyway, a bit into this heated discussion about where I'm falling short in my house keeping skills, and me trying to explain to DP what actually take place during the day while he's at work, DP comes out with the stupidest thing a man can say to his wife. He said "I should be able to come home to a clean home"

:eek:

In his defense (not that he deserves it) he did start spluttering and trying to take it back while I saw red and let him have it. I'm glad it was said though. You cant change what you dont acknowledge (according to Dr Phil :rolleyes:) I know my DP has certain expectations of me as a mother and as a wife, and expectations as to his role as the man of the house... I know these are values he has deep down, so its good that he acknowledge it...

BUT I was still totally raging off my head at him and he threw in the wonderful thing that ends an arguement "I may as well just get my own place then"

I stopped and glared at him, I even think he was able to take that back but then I said "are you SERIOUS?!" and my DP is nothing if he's not stubborn, so he said something dismissive and thn we just didn't speak until he got home.

I was SO angry still that I was shaking. I was so upset that he'd used the threatening to leave me line in an arguement, I was so angry that he really does think a womans place is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen... but through rage and exhaustion I reacted really oddly.

I scrubbed the kitchen.

At 8:3pm last night, shaking with anger, I took it out on the benches, the dishes, the floors, the splash back, the cupboards. I cleaned for about an hour and a half - about 6 times DP sheepishly came into the kitchen to tell me to come and sit down and watch some TV, to relax, take some time out, he was like "you've had a long day, you need to sit down" or "come sit and spend time with me"

Even though it was a totally irrational reaction, I really think it was unitensially a really good punishment for DP - he wants me to do the housework when he's at work and spend time with him in the evenings... its just not going to happen that way.

My plan now is, I'm going to write down a to-do list for DP - basically, if you do ALLLLLL of these things for me to make my life easier, then I'll have morre time and energy to keep the house tidy.

This is what I'm thinking (let me know if I'm being unreasonable, or also if I'm being too soft)

*If he's not going to use the dishwasher, he had to hand wash, dry and put away his own dishes.

*He has to wash, dry, fold and put away 1 load of washing a week. (1 of the 5 loads I do normally)

* 1 night a week he has to cook/bring home dinner. Not from stuff from the cupboard or fridge, he has to buy the food and cook it, I'm happy to give him $20 so there is one meal a week I dont have to plan or shop for.

*He has to take out ALL the rubbish - he normally does, but hasn't been for a week and its piling up, and I just dont do rubbish...

*He has to endevour to change 1 nappy day (or just ask every day "does the baby need a change" when he either gets home from work or when he's leaving in the morning)

*He had to give Jasper 1 bath a week.

And this the main one.

* After a meal, we both get up, rinse our plates, wash the cooking pots and pans, wipe down the benches together, give the floor a quick sweep - so its not just he gets home from work and says "whats for dinner" and then eats and leaves it for me to pack away, because thats just disgusting and I'd never have signed on for this relationship if I thought thats what he would expect of me.

Advice? Thoughts? Feedback? Suggestions of more chores he can do?

[BabelFish]

I think that's a good plan Chel.

Or you could actually tell him that for a week, you are going to stop doing ALL the things you do already. Just completely stop.

That will wake him up a bit. The house will be a tip and then he'll realise that there's actually a lot more to what you do than he thinks.

I don't have time to write more just now because DD has woken up, but I will check in later and add a bit more!

:hugs:

[KatiesMum]

As far as the original arguments ... I can totally understand both you AND him. Will come back to that.

In relation to his comment "I may as well just get my own place then" ... :eek: that is just not on. I would DEFINITELY be having a deep and meaningful about what is ok and where the line is (ie - its waaaaayyyyy back behind him). You are together, with a child, a loving relationship and a future together. If you have disagreements (even major philisophical ones) then you work on them together. Threatening to leave, even throw-away comments is not acceptable.

Anyway - back to the argument.

I did find in the first year of DD's life, that it was really hard to manage the differences in expectations. What I expected to do myself and for DH to help with, versus what he expected life to be like with a child. They were poles apart.

We had a number of arguments over what that included ... but it did in the end settle somewhat. He helped more, and I did more too. A lot of it also did involve my emotional and hormonal imbalances, so look objectively (as much as you can) at the situation.

Your approach is basically a good one. Set things that you will do, and specific things for him to do. Also make it clear that it is a day to day thing .... that some days you will find it easy to keep up with everything, and other days when bubs is unsettled or being a bit more difficult, that he will have to do more as well.

It does take time. Remember that YOUR life has changed significantly since you found out you were pregnant. You knew it would change and had a chance to mentally and emotionally prepare (as much as you can anyway). Men often seem to think that things will be just the same for them after baby comes. They still go to work just the same, but now you are home all day, and they think that they should be able to do LESS at home becuase you are there all day. It takes time (and time spent with baby) for them to realise just how much work is involved in child rearing, and how much THEY have to put into it too.

Anyway - all I can say is .... it DOES get better. It does get easier, and if my DH is anything to go by, they do get better at working these things out.
:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

[sweetseven]

* 1 night a week he has to cook/bring home dinner. Not from stuff from the cupboard or fridge, he has to buy the food and cook it, I'm happy to give him $20 so there is one meal a week I dont have to plan or shop for.
This one point I see as a little unreasonable, having to shop specifically for one meal. (If I tried this with my DP, his meal would invariably be KFC, Hungry Jacks, Pizza, or take-away curry. Note: he does cook occasionally, with stuff out of the cupboards, but is very quick to resort to take-away options when given the chance.)

Having him cook once a week seems reasonable.

If your cupboards are not set up that he could easily cook dinner without interfering with resources needed for your normal menu, then require him to add items he needs to a shopping list that you can pick up when you do the normal shopping.

If you want to include shopping in one of his "chores" then perhaps he should do the weekly shopping once a month, and you can include your list of needed items for him to pick up also.

[JiminyCricket]

I would fuming if my DP said anything like that!
Perhaps if he wants a perfect house then he should hire a cleaning maid once a week or help out when he gets home.
If he expects you do to it then when he gets home from work let him have total responsibility of the baby for the evening while you clean.

I understand that he works all day but looking after little ones is very time consuming and if he has a problem with the way the house looks then maybe he should offer to help out a bit.
Just because the male works doesn't mean that the woman has to do ALL of the home duties.

Seriously though you should sit and talk about it with him and tell him without screaming how it makes you feel and sort out something that suits both of you.

Don't feel too bad for saying you should get your own place we all say things in anger that we regret later on.

[Boobycino]

Okay... good point on the dinner one - though, i suppose I would like him to even just buy take away on his way home from work one night a week, that'd be fine by me.

Also, DP knows the threatening to leave is an absolute arguement no-no, completely out of line, he's done it once before when he's used that line on me and he did actually apologise for it a couple of days later when he got the stuborness out of his system. It does usually take a few days to get an apology from him. And I know he just said it to get a reaction - or to stop me reacting, as it were.

I point this out to DP last night (though I think anything I 'pointed out to him' probably just came off at ranting at the time) I was doing 75% of the housework when I was working a 40 hour week, so there is no reason he cant help me even though he's working.

Thing is, now there is MORE housework and he's doing less of it, which is absolutely not fair.

Then, taking into account that I'm working more and more, its getting less and less fair that I do everything.

I dont know, it all gets a bit overwhelming sometimes. I think with me working a bit more we need a cleaner. Because I just dont have the time or energy to do the other stuff, the floors, vaccuming, bathrooms and such.

I might look into that today - along with typing up some expectations for DP and emailling them to him.

[SweetSerenity]

All i can say is i sympathise. I work 35.5hour weeks and I do 90% of the housework...it gets very overwhelming. Today's my first day of doing NOTHING as i've been sick since tuesday, worked through it but now have run myself into the ground...so i need a day to recover. :hugs: to you.

[Boobycino]

All i can say is i sympathise. I work 35.5hour weeks and I do 90% of the housework...it gets very overwhelming. Today's my first day of doing NOTHING as i've been sick since tuesday, worked through it but now have run myself into the ground...so i need a day to recover. :hugs: to you.

:hugs:poor you.

In a way I'm glad to hear it though. Sometimes I think its a failing in me for accepting DP the way he is, or for picking him and not realising he'd change when we had a baby. Its nice to hear that not everyone had partners to help out.

I do want this to get better though.

I managed to keep the house spotless today, which I think is a start - I'm going to TRY to hold myself to a higher standard or cleanliness for one reason - because if I do it, he has to follow suit.

He'd not have a leg to stand on if he puts a dirty plate on my spotless sink - and also his laundry is currently sitting folded on the kitchen table just waiting for him to put it away. (I dont know why I folded it though, its hard to shake this domestic bug! next time I'll leave it and make him fold it :rolleyes:)

I figure if I do all mine and babies stuff then he can see clearly what house work I do for him. I dont work many hours, I do stay home with the baby, I'm happy to care for the baby as my full time job - BUT - my job description absolutely does not include picking up after him.

I also planned and prepared a bit of a romatic dinner for him tonight as a good platform for a more civil discussion about it, because our argument last night was basically me yelling at him and him not being able to get a word in apart from to put his foot in it and then set me off yelling some more - though it was theraputic and I feel quite light today, it probably wasn't the most healthy discussion.

BUT he's gone to bed early cos he's knackered from work.. so... I'm having a romatic dnner and a few glasses of wine on my own... his loss :D

[Annabella]

Your post is so so familiar! I think it is a very common problem in Australian households, but i know my husband is worse than most :(

I think you should expect more help, I've resigned myself to the fact I have a very lazy husband and don't bother nagging, for the sake of keeping our r'ship being semi-happy. However, I have a separate washing basket for him coz I'm over washing his mountains of clothes- sometimes I do a load out of his, otherwise I just leave it for him. It makes A LOT less washing for me!!! I also don't bother making outside look decent coz most people assume thats the man's job anyway and bag him if its messy. At one stage I was mowing a strip from the house to washing line, and eventually he felt embarrassed and started mowing.

I agree with your idea for him to arrange dinner once a week (same day each week), whether it be takeaway or whatever, its one less night for you to worry about. On that night he cleans up after dinner while you bath your son. However for the other nights I think if you cook, you clean it up, while he baths your son (every night other than your night), that way he can spend time with him. It actually makes it so much easier if he does that one tiny little job! However when he finishes dinner he doesn't just get up and take Jasper to have a bath, he has to put a few things in the dishwasher while the bath fills and Jasper undresses etc. If you bath before dinner, he does it while you cook, and after dinner he reads to him puts him to bed. You can go in too if you want to give him cuddles or feed him to sleep or whatever. I think this is good way of doing it as it makes things easier for you, but also ensures he has some time with his son each day.

Rubbish is his job. Full stop.

Washing, ask him to help you put it away and fold it, if he doesn't don't do his washing. If you have particular days you do it you could designate one of them to him, otherwise I think it'd be a bit hard to make sure he was doing it once a week.

I wouldn't bother with the nappy change. I remember how frustrating that was always being the one who had to change the nappies, but again, I think its a bit hard to police, could be a source of arguments for very little compensation IYKWIM.

Outdoors maintenance is his responsibilty and the car (unless you have one each you just take care of your own).

Good Luck!

[Boobycino]

Your post is so so familiar! I think it is a very common problem in Australian households, but i know my husband is worse than most :(

I think you should expect more help, I've resigned myself to the fact I have a very lazy husband and don't bother nagging, for the sake of keeping our r'ship being semi-happy. However, I have a separate washing basket for him coz I'm over washing his mountains of clothes- sometimes I do a load out of his, otherwise I just leave it for him. It makes A LOT less washing for me!!! I also don't bother making outside look decent coz most people assume thats the man's job anyway and bag him if its messy. At one stage I was mowing a strip from the house to washing line, and eventually he felt embarrassed and started mowing.

I agree with your idea for him to arrange dinner once a week (same day each week), whether it be takeaway or whatever, its one less night for you to worry about. On that night he cleans up after dinner while you bath your son. However for the other nights I think if you cook, you clean it up, while he baths your son (every night other than your night), that way he can spend time with him. It actually makes it so much easier if he does that one tiny little job! However when he finishes dinner he doesn't just get up and take Jasper to have a bath, he has to put a few things in the dishwasher while the bath fills and Jasper undresses etc. If you bath before dinner, he does it while you cook, and after dinner he reads to him puts him to bed. You can go in too if you want to give him cuddles or feed him to sleep or whatever. I think this is good way of doing it as it makes things easier for you, but also ensures he has some time with his son each day.

Rubbish is his job. Full stop.

Washing, ask him to help you put it away and fold it, if he doesn't don't do his washing. If you have particular days you do it you could designate one of them to him, otherwise I think it'd be a bit hard to make sure he was doing it once a week.

I wouldn't bother with the nappy change. I remember how frustrating that was always being the one who had to change the nappies, but again, I think its a bit hard to police, could be a source of arguments for very little compensation IYKWIM.

Outdoors maintenance is his responsibilty and the car (unless you have one each you just take care of your own).

Good Luck!

I do like your division of labour.

Jasper goes to bed before we have dinner, but DP could easily be bathing bubba while I prepare dinner - and then I can feed and put bubba to bed while DP serves dinner.

Though, DP has never bathed bubba from start to finish, if I ask him he wont, but what I find does work it tricking him into it "hey hon, I just need to grab something, come and watch bubba in the bath?" and then as soon as he's on post watching the baby in the bath I call down the hall way "I'm having a shower, the babies pjs and towel are just there!" and then get in the shower and stay in there for long enough that I know that bubba would have demanded to get out of the bath and so forced DP to get him out and dry and dress him :D

It would be nice if it was just easy.

Though DP is a reasonable person, and he's a business minded person, so if I can show him that there is a deal involved through which he can benefit, I'm sure he'll do more.

[samken]

My situation with DH is quite a bit different but basically the house cleaning is my job when I get around to it and for me to get around to it DH has to have full responsibility of DD.

Having said that I think it is great that you let off steam and you both have a wake up call on what it going on. I once had to DH that the mess he leaves me in the morning doesn't get fixed by a cleaning fairy.

[SweetSerenity]

Rachel, don't get me wrong DP is GREAT, but lets just say he sometimes doesn't think to make "my" load easier...

Like this week we were both sick, me ending up more sick as I still continued to work and do the household stuff...he on the other hand went to work but then expected me to wash up after him even though he normally does?

Or I will just clear the bench, and then he comes along and leaves cr@p on there and doesn't tidy it, leaving it for ME to do yet again, even though I may have done it not even 30min ago.

I actually told him last night that he has to take into consideration just how much I do around the house and not keep adding more and more work to my work load as it's too hard for me then...he understood which is good.

He does do the outside stuff and looks after both of our cars and does sometimes help with the housework, but it's usually just the dinner and the dishes he helps with occassionally.

How did your talk go last night??

[Boobycino]

We didn't have a talk exactly, I find having a 'talk' with DP is extremely counter productive as he tends to put his heels in deeper.

So instead I've opted to show DP what it is he's asking me to do by not helping and then having an unreasonably high expectation of cleanliness (is it a bad thing that I openly and often blame his mother for this, I'm sure thats a massive relationship no-no to bring up MIL is disagreements?)

I did tell him that if he wants me to keep the house as clean as he wants it that I'm going to have to spend more time cleaning, which somehow he disgreed with saying I can aparently just clean as I go (err, so I can dust the house while I'm chasing after our nearly walking 9 month old... hmmm?)

Normally I spend the whole weekend with DP and bubba and I dont do any housework over the weekend which gives me a wonderful start to the week as 3 days worth of dishes, cleaning, laundry etc is waiting for me, plus bathrooms and floors etc.

So this weekends I did all the housework while DP was home and he looked after bub for me. Which was absolutely wonderful for me. I got so much done, my house is spotless and I have nothing aside from obviously the daily stuff to do during the week.

On Sunday DP vollentarily vaccumed the whole house and he changed the bed sheets on both ours and babies bed :eek: That would be the first time he's done ANYTHING baby-related without being asked, reminded and nagged. He even cleaned bubbas room!!!! :eek: AND changed a nappy KNOWING it was a pooey nappy AND it was a cloth nappy - and they're both firsts, he's never vollenteered willingly to change a poo and he's always reluctant to touch cloth nappies (i did have to come and pick the liner out for him because he's such a girl about touching anything damp when it comes to nappies :rolleyes:) but still, really encouraging.

He also did keep telling me to come sit down, spend time with him, watch tv with him, lets go out etc etc etc and he did get a bit needy tonight, but I was detirmind to get things finished before he went to work tomorrow (his weekend is sunday & monday)

I think overall it was successful - I dont think this is 'fixed' at all, I suspect this will be an ongoing theme, as it seems to be for a lot of couples. But its good to know that he's taken notice of what I'm doing.

I suppose I've realised also housework just isn't worth doing unless I have an audience :D :yes:

[BabelFish]

Good for you Chel!