Short awake times 0-3 months

[lou333]

My 8 week old shows tired signs after as little as 20-45 mins (including feed). If I don't get her to bed within this time, she is overtired and extremely difficult to settle (sometimes taking hours), whereas putting her down early on is a lot more successful and she sleeps much more easily and for longer. Everything I read suggests babies this age should be able to tolerate being up 1-1.5 hours. :confused: Has anyone else had this experience? I would love to hear from you. Thanks.

[jembelina]

Sounds perfectly normal to me. I have always found anything more then an hour is just too long for little bubbies. My almost 8 month old is only now going longer then 2 hours before needing a sleep. Sounds like you are doing a great job! Throw the books out adn follow your baby!!

[talia11]

My six week old is exactly the same - she turns into a nightmare if she has been awake more than an hour.

[lupa]

“Feed Play Sleep”
Few things cause me more worry than the concept “Feed Play Sleep”.

It is one of the most destructive teachings I encounter.

As has been described elsewhere in these writings, sleep is most usefully regarded as a learned skill. Like all human skills, without exception, as you become more tired the skill is more difficult to perform. Fortunately when explaining this, mothers universally understand. It is a common experience of mothers that they become over- tired and sleep may be difficult to achieve.

In children the impact of fatigue is more severe and occurs more rapidly than in adults. This sensitivity to overtiredness is at it’s worst with the youngest and the lightest babies. Woman who have had children previously or who have been caring for a baby for some months know this based upon their own experience.

In Australia many families are taught a concept called “Feed Play Sleep”. Using this program children are held awake for significant periods of time for stimulation, play time, stomach time. For example I have seen families where children in their first 4 to 8 weeks of life are being guided to be awake for 90-120 minutes. I have seen premature twins being held awake for up to 90 minutes. This is a major mistake.

While it is difficult to give specifics, in the first twelve weeks of life the baby’s ability to be constructively awake is about 45-60 minutes during the day and less at night. The range is almost always 45-75 minutes.

The range of waking times is shortest for newborns i.e. about 45 minutes and will increase very slowly as they become older.

By 12 weeks a waking period of say up to 60-75 minutes will be more than enough time to have moved to the point of tiredness.

What happens with “feed, play, sleep” is that a “play” period is introduced into life too early. The baby is held awake artificially. The child becomes overtired and the sleep which follows is put at risk. The amount of risk to sleep increases as the length of the “play” period expands.


Please DO NOT USE “FEED PLAY SLEEP” as a philosophy of care EVER. This applies to all children of all age groups.

Feed Play Sleep introduces tiredness followed by overtiredness and then places the babies sleeps at risk.


What I teach is called the “Happy Wake Time”.

The “happy wake time” is exactly that. The child has awoken from a sleep and once fed or after a little “conversation” is then fed will enter a state of being happily, calmly, constructively awake. The baby will self declare for this event. You do not need to create it. Commonly the happy wake time will emerge by about 3-5 weeks of age and is most clearly seen after about 0700. The child finishes a feed and is just happily awake. (Please note that up to about this age i.e. 3-5 weeks life is essentially feed, sleep, feed sleep.)

The value of the “happy wake time” concept is that the happy wake time has a beginning and an end. The beginning of the end is noted by a change in behaviour. Babies have their own signs of tiredness but can include any of the following. Yawning, blinking, frowning, a “tired cry”, rapid body movements and by three months rubbing at the eyes with the back of the wrist or hand. These signals are important. They indicate that the baby is almost ready for sleep. They may want a tiny feed or minor reassurance, preparation for bed and then to be put down to go to sleep.

Please note that these signals of tiredness announce that the baby has entered a “window of opportunity”. They are tired and ready for sleep but not so overtired that they will have trouble achieving sleep.

The window of opportunity is quite narrow. For some babies it may be 2-3-4 minutes long.

If you get the timing correct the baby will go to sleep most efficiently and also maintain that sleep for an appropriate time.

If the baby is awake too long you may “miss the opportunity”. The baby may become overtired and may have trouble achieving or maintaining the next sleep. There will be times with all babies where they are awake too long and do become overtired. This is fine and is sometimes unavoidable. When you see this happen it is OK. Just focus on spending the next few hours i.e. 6 – 12 – 24 hrs catching up on the total volume of sleep and “repairing the overtiredness”.

The differences between these two philosophies are clear and important.

Feed play sleep holds a baby awake for an artificial time and makes them prone to tiredness and eventually overtiredness. The overtired baby will have trouble achieving and maintaining sleep. Thus feed play sleep puts a babies sleep at risk.

The happy wake time concept, looks for early signs of tiredness, avoids overtiredness and protects the next sleep.

Concluding comments.
1. Never use “feed play sleep” for any baby at any age.
2. To manage sleeps, particularly day sleeps, look for your babies early signs of tiredness and put the baby down for sleep before they become overtired.

www.silentnights.org (http://www.silentnights.org) with Dr Brian Symon


it (http://www.silentnights.org) doesn't even need to be 45mins! Even now, my 8 month old only takes 1 - 1.5 hours and he gets very tired!!

[Mrs Potts]

While I agree with the basic idea of the above post, I don't agree that "feed, play, sleep" forces you to keep the baby awake. In the newborn or young baby stage "play" means nothing more than some chatting and cuddles, until bub shows their tired signs.

The concept of feed, play, sleep is only encouraged so as to discourage what many see as a bad habit of feeding baby to sleep. Personally, what this guy is saying is everything that I have ever been taught about a feed, play, sleep routine. Just seems to me that he is full of his own importance and has to call it something he's made up.

But I digress...

OP, both of my girls were only ever awake long enough to feed for many months. Even now at 10 months DD2 is only awake for a couple of hours at a time during the day. She has only just dropped her 3rd day sleep.

In short, do what your baby needs, not what the books tell you that she should be doing.

[LittleBug'sMum]

My DS is 3 and a half months, and usually still is only awake for an hour before needing a sleep. He can tolerate being up for a couple of hours once or twice a day. Before he was 3 months he was never awake for more than an hour. The books really confused me too, and I would try to keep him awake and it would just result in an overtired baby that was more difficult to settle.
Go with your instincts, don't worry about what the books say:).

[Jinglebells]

My DD was exactly the same, she would basically wake, I would feed her, change her, then straight back down, she liked her sleep, this went on for quite a while, wasn't untill she was about 4mths old, or there abouts, that she would stay awake for longer, wasn't much longer though, maybe a extra 10-20mins, she wasn't awake for any longer than a hour and a half untill she was about 9mths old

if you are concerned about her not being awake for long, do have a chat to you GP or CHN, they will most probably say its normal, but it would ease your mind :yes:

[trishalishous]

My 8 week old shows tired signs after as little as 20-45 mins (including feed). If I don't get her to bed within this time, she is overtired and extremely difficult to settle (sometimes taking hours), whereas putting her down early on is a lot more successful and she sleeps much more easily and for longer. Everything I read suggests babies this age should be able to tolerate being up 1-1.5 hours. :confused: Has anyone else had this experience? I would love to hear from you. Thanks.

every baby is different. if they are tired, I say follow your instincts and let them sleep!
DD is 5 months and will sometimes go from 9am to 11pm with 2hrs sleep total for the day, other days she will nap for 30mins every 2-3hours, and sometimes will nap for 2 hrs in the morning, then 2 hours in the arvo.
she has always needed less sleep than reccomended, and is SO active and advanced in her milestones (rolling both ways at 14 weeks, commando crawling at 18 weeks, sitting unsupported at 20weeks) so she SHOULD be tired since she never stops moving!
just keep listening to your bubs, it sounds like you're doing a great job!

[TurnedBatty]

So I'm also a bad parent for feed,play, sleep? Oh very great info indeed. :rolleyes:

I still do feed,play,sleep, and yes, at eight weeks my boy was awake for about 45 mins and then was ready for bed. It's nothing to worry about. Frankly, little babies are boring. :) He is now eleven weeks old, and is now staying up just past the hour. Don't stress

[fludo]

That "happy wake time" post - that's the same as feed play sleep, but he says to watch for their tired signs to know when to end play time - and that's the same as any book I've read on feed play sleep!