Smacking babies/Young Children

[AppleBlossym]

There is a mother in my playgroup who smacks her baby. He is just under 1. And he cries and she still keeps doing it. I've seen her myself whilst she changes his nappy and he is not doing anything that a normal squirmy baby would do.

A few of the other mums have also commented.

The thing that worries me is, is that if she does this in public, what does she do at home?

I also know of a few other mums that smack their babies.

I would NEVER hit my baby in any form. I just do not beleive in smacking children at all. I don't beleive it acheives anything.

What are your veiws, I'd be very interested to know.

[*Moggy*]

I don't believe that there is ANY REASON AT ALL to smack a baby :mad: I totally agree with you, it is dreadful.

[SJE]

I am not really sure what message it is giving the child?

[sopolicha]

Beats me how anyone can smack a little baby, that can't even move away from it.

Report her anonymously to the Department of Child Safety.

What a lowlife.

[melfunction]

Absolutely disgusting! A baby that age doesn't even know how to be naughty. This baby wouldn't understand why his main caregiver is hurting him. Report her.
[text modified by moderator]

[meshan]

I think that's shocking. She may just need a bit of guidence on how to discipline a child, are there any parenting courses on in your area - maybe you could suggest all the playgroup Mums go - or maybe you could arrange for someone to come and give a talk to the playgroup ( so she doesn't feel singled out).

I think you need to tread carefully so she doesn't just stop coming to playgroup and then the child gets no help at all.

[the_queen]

You'll notice an echo in here.

Report her.

Report her.

Report her.



If in her eyes that tiny infraction warrants a smack, what's she going to do to him when he's older???


:mad: Poor bubba.

[Pixie]

Exactly what is she doing at home, my mother physically abused me for 11 years 12-21years old no one ever knew...report her any person that lays a finger on any child be it under a year 5 or 15 needs to be reported. I only wish I had done it to my mum.

[CarolineF]

The only time I think it may be warranted is if an older toddler is putting its fingers towards a fire, hot pan something like that. Otherwise I am against it. I don't smack my dd and I do not even think I have had to for one of the above.

Even had I had to, it would be a tap to make a point that its dangerous rather than a smack...if you know what I mean.

I was at someones house a few months ago, the little boy aged about 2 1/2 bit his 4 year old sister and his dad went up to him and bit him right back leaving a mark. I was horrified.:eek:

I have intervened in supermarkets before when I have seen heavy handed parents whipping the heck out of their kids. No wonder they are out of control!:mad:

[IndigoRose]

Mmm...thats really NOT on!!!!.
I come from a family of six and not one memory of my brothers or sister being smacked.My Mum and Dad had a disapproving look they used to give me,just a look and that was enough.It worked.
It makes me sick in the stomach when im out and about and do witness such abuse.The guilty party really need to take a step back, breath,and take a look at themselves.Its not a pretty sight.
Steve.

[CarolineF]

we use the bottom step for my dd. She gets a warning and a look, if that does not work (which is rare) she has to sit on the bottom step for 5 mins then whoever put her there goes and sits and talks to her...it really works cos it usually means she has missed doing something she wanted and she hates that! A bit of Time Out always calms her down.

[Verdi]

I don't believe in smacking babies!!!!!

But sometimes my 2 little boys can drive you to the limit, they are almost 5 and 7, sometimes i do smack them on the bum, but most of the time a stern warning is what they need.

My youngest is really trying at times,
Doesn't get what he wants he willl throw down cans at the supermarket!!!
Then i pull him aside and give a little smack in the bum, ( and thats after multiple warnings!!!!) when i say smack it's really a tap!

But smacking babies is not on!!!!!

I lived with my MIL when i had my first and she smacked him at 6 months, i was so annoyed!!!! Do people think that kids at this age are naughty!!!:thumbsdown:

[Elijahsmama]

I admit to giving my 10mth old flicks on his hand. He knows what no means and if he dosent stop when told no, he gets a little flick. Me and DH will give him a smack on his behind when hes older once other forms of punishment have failed as a last result. I would never beat my child. I give my son flicks out in public too, does that mean i will bash him behind closed doors - no. Im not going to change my ways out of the house as that will be sending him mixed messages. Our son is well loved, gets lots of praise and people are always commenting on what a happy baby he is so i stand by how i raise my child.
Please dont jump the gun and judge people with things that you dont approve of. If you are really concerned with this lady maybe go up to her and just ask what her discipline techniques are. I know i would'nt be offended if someone came up to me and asked nicely without putting their judgement foward.

[sopolicha]

.
Please dont jump the gun and judge people with things that you dont approve of. If you are really concerned with this lady maybe go up to her and just ask what her discipline techniques are. I know i would'nt be offended if someone came up to me and asked nicely without putting their judgement foward.


Bugger that, she is abusing a little defenceless baby. No one in their right mind would approve of that.

[melfunction]

Please dont jump the gun and judge people with things that you dont approve of.

Damn right I will judge someone smacking a baby! It is abuse ffs!

[Jax Tellers Old Lady]

I do not agree with smacking children at all :no:

[Irish Dad]

Gotta agree with KM on this one, I'd probably grab her by the throat and throttle her :mad: I have smacked my boys on the bum before and feel guilty as hell afterwards, also it doesn't seem to work :no:

[sopolicha]

Gotta agree with KM on this one, I'd probably grab her by the throat and throttle her :mad: I have smacked my boys on the bum before and feel guilty as hell afterwards, also it doesn't seem to work :no:

That is exactly why I gave it away................the guilts and a sh*te load of them.

[the_queen]

I admit to giving my 10mth old flicks on his hand. He knows what no means and if he dosent stop when told no, he gets a little flick.


Wow that is a very advanced 10 month old you've got there!!!

[SamanthaJane]

I was smacked on the bottom as a child and i turned out just fine :rolleyes:

Though it was only 1 simple smack, not like 10 million smacks in a row... that to me is getting toward the "abuse" stage - JUST MY OPINION.

I dont agree with smacking, i believe there are other ways to control your children. Its trial and error of picking a type that works for you.

I've never actually talked to my partner about discipline, so i dont know how we will go about it for our child. Though i do know he was never smacked.

I think i'd probabaly be one to use the old tap on the hand when they are about 2- 3 years- For instance: if they were touching something that they shouldnt, whether it be dangerous, breakable whatever, i'd give them a little tap on the hand, as if to say, don't do that, i think that would just be my automatic reaction. I wouldnt do it hard enough to hurt them, so i guess i wouldnt really even include it as a smack :confused:

But, I would never ever ever ever ever smack a young baby!:eek:

[bronny-jane]

i was smacked by my parents and felt fear and resentment for it, didnt teach me a lesson either:rolleyes:

i think sometimes people smack their children out of frustration, which is scary:shame:

[Elijahsmama]

Maybe so, i know of many others his age that know the no word too. Funny how he will stop immediately when DH says it but not always when i do. :devil6:
I just re-read the initial Post and if that lady is repeatly (if thats a word) smaking her bub theres noway thats that on also if he/she is only crying.
I got the wooden spoon on my bum on the odd occasion as a child as the last result and it worked for me i was terrified of it but it only made my sister laugh so each child responds differently. When DS is old enough to use timeout and understand consequences i hope that we will never have to resort to a smack but if we have to i will stand by doing so.

[AppleBlossym]

***TEXT REMOVED BY MODERATOR***

Why do you parents who smack feel thats the right thing to do?

If your kids hit someone what are you going to do? Smack them for it?

Hello?!:idea: No wonder they hit other kids!!

[porridge]

spare the rod, spoil the child

I don't agree with smacking out of frustration, or as a sole form of discipline, but I DO believe it has a place.

I was smacked as a child, and I will smack my children when needed. I love my little man and want him to grow up well.

While there are real cases of abuse in our society, which is incredibly sad, it's a bit worrying that people are so quick to judge another parent disciplining their own child.

Do you seriously think a child will be harmed by being disciplined?

spare the rod, spoil the child...

[SamanthaJane]

I got the wooden spoon on my bum on the odd occasion as a child as the last result and it worked for me i was terrified of it but it only made my sister laugh so each child responds differently.

My parents never once used the wooden spoon, but they often said they would lol. We all laughed about it too. My brother used to get it from the kitchen an hide it, just to p*ss mum and dad off even more lol;)

[SamanthaJane]

I know i am not a mod, but i think we need to keep this thread nice. Dont turn it into personal attacks on people for what they think is best for them.

Parenting styles are so varied, and everyone will always have different opinions on how to raise their children;)

[oleander]

I say no to smacking children. I will find another form of discipline. Supernanny has some good ideas about discipline like the naughty mat and that seems to work.

[porridge]

I could assure you that all the kids throwing rocks at cops and rioting at Macquarie Fields and Redfern never had loving discipline applied to them when they were growing up. Probably either no discipline at all, or abuse. They have no respect for authority!

Do you really think that letting a child do what they want to do, without having consequences, helps anyone?

And do you also think a 12month old baby can understand completely verbal warnings?

It's important that children learn to do exactly what mum/dad tell them, if for no other reason than their own safety.

The whole concept of not disciplining children is a new one (last 25 yrs), and only now are we seeing a generation of children growing up who do not have a correct understanding of authority or respect to others. The damage of this thinking will really only come out in the next 30 odd years, as that generation grows up and become the leaders in our society.

From a more philosophical view point - law without sanction, is no law at all. For a law to be effective, the sanction also has to be effective.

Little kids often don't respond to anything other than corporal punishment - you can reason with them all you like, but kids by their very nature are unreasonable. You can take away priviledges, but sometimes children have difficulty relating their bad behaviour with that removal.

I'm not saying that smacking is the only form of discipline, but it's an important instrument in the parenting toolbox.

[JATS]

My mother broke my nose, cracked my rib and broke my brother's arm on more than one occasion.

For this reason alone I won't be smacking my kids, it makes me physically ill to think about doing it, but I think the occasional smack on the bum or whatever for an older child wouldn't do damage if a parent chooses to do so and dosen't do it when in an emotional state.

IMO a parent should never lash out at a child in anger.

Tom has understood NO since 9 months old.

In my experience NO in a stern voice while changing his nappy dosen't make him sit still as well as positive encouragement, or distraction, I don't see how hitting him would make it a positive experience.

[SamanthaJane]

I say no to smacking children. I will find another form of discipline. Supernanny has some good ideas about discipline like the naughty mat and that seems to work.

I am going to try the naughty mat as well :yes:

But not a naughty room... i think thats a bit strange, i mean, if they use a spare bedroom, that child could have to sleep in there one day... that could be a bit emotional for the child, thinking they now sleep in the "naughty room".

But every child is different, so not everything works the same for every child.. i bet i will have a little terror who doesnt take any discipline seriously, lol darn... :rolleyes:

[Verdi]

Parenting Styles vary, we can not be quick to judge different ways, as long as it is not abuse, ( i don't believe a smack here or there when used appropiately is abuse) What may work for one child may not work for another, in the end if a child needs a little smack to make them realise they are putiing themselves or others danager then let it be. (babies is a different story)
Also need to remeber ethnic background vary in parenting style, and no it does not give anyone the right to abuse a child, but if you got to a european country, the wooden spoon is used for a form of loving discipline in their eyes, in our society it may be frowned upon but in theirs it's not.

Don't be quick to judge.

[Tarnya]

[quote=Elijahsmama]Maybe so, i know of many others his age that know the no word too. Funny how he will stop immediately when DH says it but not always when i do. :devil6:

I completely agree with you :) I have a friend with a 10 mnth old who tried to tell me the other day he couldn't possibly know what no meant, (he was into my cd collection) and his DF had commented he does this constantly at home and breaks them, he also slaps his father in the face and bites!

So I raised my voice which is quite deep when I need it to be and said "NO ZACHARY"!

He crawled over to me and hit me!

I said no again and put him on his bum on the floor he cried and then came up 2-3 min later and put his head on my lap (apology??) I picked him up and gave him a hug :hugs:

I put him down and straight back to the cd's he crawled just as he was about to touch I said "NO ZACHARY" again. He turned straight around looked to see how sincere I was. Realised I was serious and crawled over and played with his toys. A 10 mnth old is well aware of wright and wrong IF THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN DEFINED TO THEM.

I agree with you completely elijahsmama, but I guess that's why the saying exists EACH TO THEIR OWN :laughing:

[meshan]

To those who do hit their children - what would you do if your child hit another child? Children learn what they live and by resorting to violence when you are angry you are teaching children that hitting is acceptable behaviour.

[Blessed Mum]

I am not a smacker, positive redirection & praise seem to work well for us & now that DS is older loss of privleges & treasures etc & that is what we will continue to do for both of our children. I do not agree a baby should be getting smacked.

poor bubbas - they are so precious :hugs: & :kiss:

[mum2bubba]

You should NEVER smack a child let alone a baby, my SIL told me that she started smacking her kids from the time they were 8 months :eek: :shame: What I want to know is what would a baby of that young do so bad that they would warrant a smack????

My other SIL smacks my nephew whos almost 2 it annoys me because she tells him not to hit (he hits Hayley all the time) but thats exactly what shes doing to hm, doesn't that send mixed messages? It also annoys me that she smacks her kids in my house in front of Hayley. I'm am trying really hard not to use physical punishment on my daughter coz I was abused when I was younger (just for the record I know the difference between actual abuse and a smack but in MY house smacking, hitting etc of any kind is a no-no) :shame:

[Angelmist♥]

I was smacked as a child (with the good ole wooden spoon;) )and I smack my children only when absolutely needed.I didn't grow up terrified of my parents.....I grew up "knowing" that if I did something really naughty I would get smacked for it.I look at some kids today and wonder where they get the nerve to do some of the things they do.
A few years ago, I had two 10yr olds throw a rock into my windscreen at 7pm.When I called the police, they told me that these 2 had done it before but because they were underage they couldn't do anything about it and the parents were going to discipline them:mad: Hmmm and here they are a few weeks later doing it again:confused:

Just one example of how I would have been way too scared to pull anything like that.Plus I knew at that age, to respect other people and their property.

I definitely don't agree with smacking babies, although I do agree that a sternly said NO does work.Even my 7.5 month old understands that.

AND I'd just like to add for the record, that my kids don't hit anyone else "because" I smack them.They actually are usually very well behaved and play very well with other kids.

[porridge]

To those who do hit their children - what would you do if your child hit another child? Children learn what they live and by resorting to violence when you are angry you are teaching children that hitting is acceptable behaviour.

A parent is in a position of authority over their child; a child does not have that same authority over another child.

If you take a toy away from a child, does that mean that the child can then go and take a toy off another child?

Just because their parents drive a car, does that mean the children can drive the car too?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that arguement.

Also, I don't believe that smacking a child as discipline (in love) is the same as resorting to violence when you are angry. If you are angry, then you are more likely to act in the moment and go overboard. Loving discipline lets the child know that they have done something wrong, and that there are consequences - which are administered in the right way. Children shouldn't be scared of their parents! Thrashing kids builds bitterness and resentment.

[porridge]

I was smacked as a child (with the good ole wooden spoon;) )and I smack my children only when absolutely needed.I didn't grow up terrified of my parents.....I grew up "knowing" that if I did something really naughty I would get smacked for it.I look at some kids today and wonder where they get the nerve to do some of the things they do.
A few years ago, I had two 10yr olds throw a rock into my windscreen at 7pm.When I called the police, they told me that these 2 had done it before but because they were underage they couldn't do anything about it and the parents were going to discipline them:mad: Hmmm and here they are a few weeks later doing it again:confused:

Just one example of how I would have been way too scared to pull anything like that.Plus I knew at that age, to respect other people and their property.

I definitely don't agree with smacking babies, although I do agree that a sternly said NO does work.Even my 7.5 month old understands that.

AND I'd just like to add for the record, that my kids don't hit anyone else "because" I smack them.They actually are usually very well behaved and play very well with other kids.

well said :thumbsup:

[Verdi]

Porridge and Nara - same here my kids are very well behaved at school they nevery bully or hit another child.:D

[draught]

Personal attacks are not warranted. This is a forum for exchange of ideas and in my experience ridiculing or belittling another's parenting style is not going to convince them that your way is right. In other words - keep it nice or the thread, and the helpful suggestions contained in it, goes.

[bigglet]

The jury is out with me on this one and I guess for me I'll have to assess the situation when it happens.

I was watching a friend of mine who had toddlers and they kept trying to reach up onto the stove to either touch or reach up for the handles and their mother said several times in a warning tone to "leave it" and then finally when they did it again she gave a quick smack on their hand and they stopped straight away. I thought fair enough they were warned several times and the smack didn't really hurt them it was just more of a final NO and they realised their mother was serious. I also thought that I'd rather have my child learn from that then getting a hot pot scalding them or being burnt.

Have to say both my DH and I were brought up where our parents did smack us as a child for discipline as did most of our friends as well. My DH says that a quick smack on the bottom on hand (after a few verbal warnings) is ok - children do tend to push boundaries... but for me I think it depends on the situation and the child itself. I know that for my brother only a good smack would get his attention and I watched him go through all sorts of punishment and not care but the smack made him think twice.

There is a difference between a smack and a beating.

[melfunction]

There is a difference between a smack and a beating

You and I know that, but does a little baby?

[Crissie]

depends on the age i think... baby- no... toddlers- kinda... kids- yes

[Foxymoron]

Poor little baby :(
Babies certainly do understand language sooner they they can speak, but impluse control- forget it. Even a 3 year old has problems with impulse control and more abstract concepts like wrong and right.
I don't beleive in smacking, ever.
I agree with the idea of having someone come and do a talk on positive parenting. This woman may be simply unaware of better strategies or may be repeating a pattern of abuse.

[bigglet]

I wasn't thinking of smacking babies - I wouldn't smack a baby but a walking talking thinking toddler/child would be different. And once the child is old enough to deal with consequences as a form of punishment then that would be a better option.

[Foxymoron]

I wasn't thinking of smacking babies - I wouldn't smack a baby but a walking talking thinking toddler/child would be different.

:wave: Hi Bigglet, I'm responding to the OP. Not suggesting that you were saying anything about it. :D

[bigglet]

:wave: Hi Bigglet, I'm responding to the OP. Not suggesting that you were saying anything about it. :D

:D ahhh!! cool! thanks

[WeThree]

You really need to say something, at the very least this woman needs to attend some sort of parenting course and needs some information on child development. Babies of that age dont do things to be 'naughty' nor do they make the connection between the smack and what they have just done, they dont understand that you have hit them because they were squirming to much, or whatever, they just know that the person they love and trust more than anything in the world has just hit them :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[Ky]

I smack my children ...

They get fair warning and most of the time that is enough ... I don't go around threatening them with a smack, they just know that if they go too far that this will be the absolute final consequence.

That said ... as they grow older, I am finding that each child has an area of interest in their life that I can use as discipline rather than a smack ... now that I can use this tool instead of needing to smack to get through to them, I very rarely have to smack them!

I find that most of the time when they play up it is because they are either very tired or I have been too involved in something for too long and they have been lacking a bit of attention ie. posting on bubhub!

I use distraction, rewarding great behaviour and taking away toys/privileges before I smack.

If anyone sees me smack my children in public, it is at exactly the same level as when I am at home as I don't believe that my kids should get away with being little horrors (which they definielty are not!) just because someone may dissapprove of my methods.

As babies, I found that they learnt "no" very early on and that a gruff voice was enough to distract them, following up with something else to play with.

As toddlers, if "no" and distraction wasn't working, them a light tap on the nappy (mainly noise) would get their attention away from it and then I would distract them with something else. I admit to having smacked my kids a couple of times on the leg when they insisted on wriggling while I changed a pooey nappy, but they were over 18mo at the time and they had had a lot of "no" and distraction before I needed to do it. And again, all it took was a light tap.

If I am angry, I make sure that my kids are in a safe room and I take myself off to calm down before I administer any form of discipline, whether it be taking away a privilege or giving them a smack.

I have explained to my kids the reason for discipline ... they both seem to have an idea of why at around the age of 3 and can explain to me why they needed to be disciplined for their actions.

As for the "smacking will make them smack other kids" comments ... my kids are very unlikely to do this and more likely to tell the other child that they don't like being smacked by them and that they should stop and say sorry ... I have very rarely known of them to smack each other and they have never smacked dh and I. They are also very quick to comfort another child and share their toys etc - even to the point of giving away a balloon if they have one and another child hasn't!

Believe me ... I know the difference between discipline and abuse! I was abused for 15 years by my mother and I know that what I do with my kids is loving discipline! For a start, I do not smack my children in anger and for absolutely no good reason! I have never left bruises, black eyes, broken bones or had them cowering away from me in a corner shielding their faces with their arms.

My children wait for me in their bedroom, get one smack on the fleshy part of their thigh and when a suitable time has elapsed, they are cuddled, asked how they understand the need for discipline arose, asked for an apology and then I reaffirm that there is nothing that they can ever do to stop me loving them, there are just going to be times when they need to be guided back on track!

As for smacking a child on the hand ... if you do it, please stop now! The bones in their hands are still very soft and smacking can actually cause them a lot of damage that only presents later in life! A light tap on the nappy to make a sudden noise is just as effective!

[Ky]

Oh, and I would definitley say something to the woman about smacking her little one. Maybe there is someone in your group who can spend some time with her and her bub and gently suggest some alternate techniques for distracting etc that will help her get through the baby stage without taking her frustration out on bub.

Maybe she is suffering form pnd or something similar and just needs some extra encouragement ... rather than just attacking her straight out about smacking, maybe you need to encourage her in the things that she is doing really well at the same time! It is so much easier to learn lessons about this sort of thing if you think that it is just one area where you need to learn rather than thinking you are an overall failure.

[Sheer Bliss]

I think to say 'report her' is perhaps being a bit to quick & judgemental. Maybe this woman simply has no idea of how to deal with her baby and needs a helping hand rather than to be jumped on for 'abuse'? DD is 15months and is a major squirmer when having her nappy changed and so far distraction/'no'/talking to her work to different degrees, but I am not going to say that i will 'never' smack her, it depends on the child, the action & the circumstances.
However....when she continually climbs on the highchair legs, which is dangerous not just naughty, and i have told her 'no' many times, moved her away from it many times, distracted her with other toys etc etc she gets a little tap on the hand. And it usually does the trick, but it is our last resort punishment.
I believe smacking can play a part in discipline, but not the main feature, and flogging a child is out of the question.

[the_queen]

"reporting her" is not going to get her baby taken away from her. It's going to alert the authorities (that is, Family and Youth Services or whatever it's called in that state) that this parent needs help parenting her child. She will be contacted by a social worker and will be offered some help - be it counselling, parenting courses, home visits, etc.

[Blessed Mum]

Was just about to say the same thing Queen.:)

[Sarie]

We believe in smacking. As someone has already said a smack is far different from a beating.

[Rhoxie]

We have previously smacked our now 8 year old - it does not work as a discipline technique - it makes him angry and resentful and instead of thinking about what he has actually done he thinks about how nasty and awful his parents are. He would also relatiate with violence against us because simply that is what smacking is ... it is VIOLENCE!



We no longer smack and haven't done for a long time.

There are much better parenting techniques. If you haven't read more than 3 different books or attended any parenting courses then you need to educate yourself further to open your eyes to far more useful approaches.
As a starting point on the background of punishment I reccommend Parenting for a peaceful world (it will be an eye opener)

For a baby having it's nappy changed the distraction method works heaps better than a smack !

A child under two does not associate the punishment with the action - they associate the parent with the punishment (or the tone of voice). Children don't understand that the word no means ' stop what you are doing' to them it means mum is getting angry with me. Some children hear the word no & look/smile at mum but being small children they aren't sure why mum is angry so they go back to what they were doing....only to be growled at again and followed up with a smack if they continue doing it...

By doing this you are teaching them to fear YOU saying NO but you are not teaching them not to repeat the behaviour. Quite simply because there is only a very slight link between the bahaviour and the punishment they will continue to repeat the behaviour on other occasions but they will continue to show a reaction to the word NO as they associate NO with punishment.

In this way the word NO used with small children is only useful under supervision - it does not have a associated effect on behaviour until after age 3. So you can't say NO & smack a child for trying to touch a CD collection or Oven and expect them to remember not to touch it when there is not a person present to say NO because they associate the punishment with the parent and the word not the action !!

With regards to the Lady at the playgroup - I would book a positive parenting speaker to come out to the playgroup and I would also raise it at committee level as most playgroups that are affliated with state playgroup associations have 'no violence at playgroup' as part of their code of conduct or mission statement. (I know WA does because I help run a local playgroup and our playgroup has a no violence/no smacking/screaming at children policy). Most states also have department that can supply posters on cherishing children and positive parenting to put up around playgroup.

Best of luck

[Ky]

We have previously smacked our now 8 year old - it does not work as a discipline technique - it makes him angry and resentful and instead of thinking about what he has actually done he thinks about how nasty and awful his parents are. He would also relatiate with violence against us because simply that is what smacking is ... it is VIOLENCE!

Children do get to the point where smacking is no longer an option for discipline. That is why smacking should never be the sole method used, just as a last resort at any age.

I disagree that smacking is violence ... if done appropriately with the right follow up and and only used at an age appropriate level it can be beneficial. That said ... the personality of the child needs to be considered too - some are just as chastised with a stern look while others need the shock of a smack.

Smacking while angry or for trivial matters IS violence...

[Hokey Pokey]

I very very very rarely smack my girls, I would have to be at my witts end or they would have had to have done something veryyyyyyy naughty to get a smack. Even then my smacks are quite pathetic, a very light tap on the bottom or the hand is enough in my eyes.
I prefer to use time out and take away their priveledges. It works far better for my girls.

[marcelsmum]

I smack my son only as a last resort, But it never happened until he was well and truly a toddler,
He is now 7 years old and I have not smacked him for a long time, Just the threat of it is enough. He knows it only happens when all else fails and now we just do not get to that stage.
Smacking a baby or someone that doesn't understand why they are getting smacked however is NOT ON:thumbsdown:

We talk first if that does not work out comes the naughty chair, if that does not work its to the bedroom and if IT still does not work The word smack comes out,

As I mentioned before I have not had to smack for a very long time.

It is quite funny as ever since He was a baby I have patted his bum to get him to sleep or to calm him down when he is upset, Ironically I think that the bum patting is actually harder than the smacks, (I cant bring myself to actually hurt him.) So it is definitely the tone of my voice and the thought that I am upset that works on him.

[CarolineF]

I know as I was growing up it was common for children to be punished by not having any dinner or by being sent to their bedroom.

My mum, a former maternity nurse, once said something to me that stayed with me and really made an impact. She said never send your child to its bedroom as a punishment because then he/she will associate going to bed as a punishment and you may have difficulties in that area as they get older as a result. The bedroom is a place they should always feel safe, and not associated with punishment.

Also, she said never deprive a child of its dinner/pudding etc as punishment or eating problems can follow because food is not meant to be used as a form of control.

Some may disagree with her, but it really upset me when I clicked what she was saying and meant.:yes:

[SassyMummy]

I wouldn't smack a baby (though I did bat at my daughter's hand recently when she tried to pull the cats tail...mostly so the cat didn't retaliate and scratch her).

I think that, if my DD was being a brat when she's older, I'll smack her. Of course, it won't be my FIRST disciplinary tactic...it'll be one of the "last resorts."

I was smacked as a child (hands, wooden spoons, belts, plastic rod of a feather duster). I don't resent my parents for doing it, and I never felt abused at all. It DID work on me...but it didn't work on my younger brother (because he would run around while they chased him which he thought was hilarious!). I think different tactics are needed for different children.

I must say, I'd be much happier with a "naughty mat/step/stool" when DD is older. Hopefully I'll be able to deal with that when she actually starts BEING naughty.

She usually just gets a "NO!" when she's misbehaving (mostly by hitting the cat or smashing toys into the TV/coffee table so it makes a "clang" noise...).

[sopolicha]

I think to say 'report her' is perhaps being a bit to quick & judgemental. Maybe this woman simply has no idea of how to deal with her baby and needs a helping hand rather than to be jumped on for 'abuse'?

Oh Come on........it is a little baby that isn't even walking yet. Don't you think after having her baby for nearly a year she should have some idea? Perhaps if a bit more judging and speaking out went on fewer child would have to suffer abuse.


CarolineF - Your Mum makes sense to me.

[reAllytee]

I pretty much agree with what Kyra & BubbaGanoush have said.
I would also like to point out that making a child sit on a naughty mat can also have its own repercussions so really its not always a wise move either.
Both can be used as a tool but should be used wisely.
What this mother is doing isnt appropriate & obviously has some anger management issues she needs to deal with i would report her so she can get the help she really needs as much as helping a poor defenceless baby who hasnt got a voice.


Also forgot to add that the what if your child hits another & the learned behaviour isnt a valid argument as i think it was porridge showed us but also in that DS was hitting at 3mths. This was not learned because i would never hit my 3mth old & when i say he hit he hit. He would get angry or frustrated with my just as he does now or as any other toddler does & lash out at me so dont always assume its learned when a child at school does it or becomes the schoolyard bully.

[AM]

I have recently done what I thought I would never ever do, and smacked my 2 year old a couple of times, and it was defiitely a case of me being under a lot of stress, and not coping well with his behaviour to put it mildly!
The clincher for me, even though I felt like utter, utter **** the couple of times I did it, was when my 2 year old said to me 'smack bum' when our 5 month old baby was crying one day, and I just felt so low and awful, and thought what have I done here, what have I taught him, and that was it for me, never, ever again, will I raise my hand, it is simply too destructive a thing to pass onto our children.

I hope the woman described is helped to see that what she is doing is very wrong and harmful, I too believe she needs education, not to be reported, unless all else fails.

[Mikeswifey]

I dont think that a little tap on the hand is bad, I dont believe its child abuse either.

How hard does this lady smack her kid? Like can you hear the slap?

I got smacked very occasionally on the bum and I dont think that was child abuse at all. To me, someone being beaten is child abuse.

[Ky]

To those who agreed with spanking and said it was the only method of discipline that worked,


I don't think that anyone has said that we think that spanking is the only method that works ... rather, most of us have said that we do smack, but only as a last resort or if our child is in immediate danger!

I would rather my child felt a smack on the bottom than the shock from a fork poked into a power point ... or a tyre running over their little body ... wouldn't you?

[Ky]

Another point I would like to make is that a lot of people that I have met (and I am not saying that all are like this!) who refuse to smack their kids are the ones who yell at them instead and call them idiots or stupid or morons ... I never call my children names as my job as a parent is to build their self esteem, not drag them down!

My mother would physically abuse me ... I got over that very easily as I could see that she had an anger problem ... the verbal abuse though, I am still working through with a counsellor at 36! It isn't very nice to be told that you are so ugly that no-one would ever want to be near you let alone marry you! This is what I had to put up with as a child and you know what ... I actually believed her!

[Mikeswifey]

pigbeer I read that letter by Beth and I think that you are talking about whipping kids into shape and using the belt and stuff, and this thread is just about giving them a little smack on the hand.

The stoptherod website made me very upset. How could anyone could treat their kids like that?

[Mister Noodle]

The only *possible* use I can see for smacking would be when a child has got itself locked into a tantrum and can't calm down. When this happens, you need an out-of-band message to get through and break the cycle.

I still don't like the idea, though. There's got to be a better approach.

Anyone who smacks a baby that's too young to even know what it's doing... badly needs not to have a baby dependent on them.

As a form of discipline, I can think of few things that would be less effective.

I will never raise a hand to my child, any more than I would raise a hand to my wife. Coercion through violence is never a solution.

[reAllytee]

I will never raise a hand to my child, any more than I would raise a hand to my wife. Coercion through violence is never a solution.

I totally agree i never raise a hand to my son in anger or even if throwing a tantrum BUT i do quick him a quick tap if after repeated measures of diversion or taking him away from something dangerous like trying to play with a fan etc. Sometimes they also need to know that something "hurts" just like they unfortunately find out the hard way that something is hot.
Raising a hand to a child just because they wont do something that you want them to do is unecessary.
Everyone has their own ways of parenting now as long as the person isnt abusing a child then i in no ways judge them whether it comes to smacking or something like controlled crying. Just because my views differ doesnt mean the other person is wrong.

pigbeer - Please realise there is a HUGE difference between the website you were showing to most parents ideas of smacking so huge in fact i think you could see the moon inbetween ! Honestly people likes the Pearls etc need to be well given a taste of their own medicine to be honest & see whether they agree with it after all.

[Elijahsmama]

If you haven't read more than 3 different books or attended any parenting courses then you need to educate yourself further to open your eyes to far more useful approaches.
I have read many books on parenting and been to a couple of Steve Bidulph's seminars (which i loved!) I've studied childcare and done a parenting course. I still stand by my way of parenting and noone will change that. Like others i will not smack hard, never when im angry or upset and only as a last resort.
Im not pushing my opinions on anti-smackers to go ahead and smack your children so why are so many trying to push theirs on us who choose to??

[draught]

Pigbeer - no one is saying that "belting" a child is okay. No one on this thread has condoned child abuse. You also need to be aware that domestic violence is not just about partners who cheat and that these days it is referred to as "family violence" to encompass all abuse that happens within the family context. No one is saying it is okay to hit a woman, or a child. Please stop trying to stir the pot.

[reAllytee]

Isn't it funny that a 'belting' to a small kid is considered okay:eek: in our society, but if a husband 'taps' his wife because she is cheating on him (don't mean to accuse), then that's considered Domestic Violence!!!!!!

GRR:mad:

If you can't hit a woman, then you shouldn't hit a child! All hitting, in my opinion, hurts!!!!

Just-A-Thought


:banghead:
Sorry but do you understand what a "tap" means ? For us it means a gentle smack on the bum which due to my DS having a clothed bum means it makes more noise than anything else. How do i know this ? Ive tested it funnily enough because i wanted to make sure it wouldnt be hard but something to grab his attention.
I do not condone abuse in any form & i can tell you now there is a big difference to tapping a childs bum to a husband throwing a punch or slap his wife's way.
I can also say that if my DP did slap me cause i had cheated on him i would actually take it because i can tell you if he cheated on me i would inflict more pain than that !

[porridge]

Steve Bidulph

I know this is off the topic, but he's a parent at the school I work at!!

He does write some very good stuff, especially on raising boys and boys education... but that's for another thread :o

[Irish Dad]

Umm I started to read the rest of this thread and just got lost :confused: As to the topic, hitting babies is a total :no:

[SassyMummy]

I agree that there's a major difference between abuse and smacking. I was smacked as a child...never abused.

As for kids learning to hit by BEING hit...well, maybe SOME kids learn it that way, but my DD knows how to hit/slap. She does it all the time when she's angry...and she doesn't get hit. I bought her a doll today, and she's been babbling to it and would occassionally SLAP it across the face and then throw it away angrily. It wasn't something that was LEARNT or TAUGHT to her, it was something that she just started to do on her own.

[JATS]

My son has never been smacked, he has never seen anyone smacked, but when frustrated he does lash out!

Certainly not a learned behaviour, and he is slowly learning there are better ways of dealing with frustration, so he's already doing better than many adults I know!:D

In most cases there is a good reason for kids misbehaving, My parents believed in treating the symptom (ie. belting us senceless and/or locking us in a room).

I believe in many cases you can find the source with a little effort.

Discipline is about learning, personally I don't believe violence in any form has a place in education.

BUT like I said if another parent chooses that path, although I don't understand it, as long as they aren't using excessive force I have no problem with them.

[Mischief]

Is your poll asking if its okay to smack a BABY or TODDLER?

I belive its SOOOOO wrong to smack a baby, a soft smack over a nappy or tap on the hand for an older child who has understanding of what they are doing is wrong is a bit different.

I do belive in smacking....but only after the child has received due warning and been asked to stop the behaviour several times, including an explaination of WHY its not OK! Not just a "cause I said"....And I would NEVER smack a child so hard to bruise or mark....poor things.

Smaking babies who dont understand anything but the need to be loved, that is just wrong.:(

[Mum&bubs]

I hate seeing a mother "smack" her child for "smacking" iykwim. It doesnt make any sense at all! nor teaching them anything.

[poshBecks]

Well, I dont agree with smacking babies. But I do think it is wrong to judge other people. Dont report her. Maybe confront her & express your concern. But dont report her.

I will smack my toddler when it is called for (you cannot reason with a 2 year old sometimes). But never out of anger or just because. Smacks are given plenty of warning & are explained thoroughly. He understands!!

[AppleBlossym]

Ok so the majority rules to confronting her....she is the meanest mum at my playgroup!

How am I supposed to do that?!

I know she'll tell me to mind my own business.

I still think hitting all children is totally wrong, but to hit a baby IMO means theres something seriously wrong with your head.:devil6:

Especially when they cry!:mad:

Babies should only receive love!

[xkwzit]

You could ask her if it works for her (with a curious tone, rather than Dr Phil style). Talk about how you think a little baby wouldn't understand a smack, ask her if she thinks it helps.

Start a book club and choose a non-corporal discipline book as the first one.:D

If you just talk about it (without preaching), she might stop to think about what she's doing and whether there might be a better way.

Cheers

[Tam-I-Am]

Maybe you could try asking her if everything's going alright for her, because she's seemed a little stressed lately, ie slapping *insert her bubba's name* on the leg when he didn't seem to be doing anything wrong, and goodness knows we all have hard days - is there anything you can help with?

It's a really non-judgmental way to approach the idea that the behaviour is unacceptable. Its non-threatening, and might get her to think about her behaviour more.

And if she gets upset and starts yelling, you can make out like all you were trying to do was help - not insult!

Let us know how it goes.

[Nan]

I wouldn't smack my baby, but I would smack an older child if the need arose.

Also, I find the comments at the start of this thread to be very judgmental. I don't support what this lady has done at all, but would love an answer as to why we think its okay to make judgmental comments about someone who isn't on bubhub when we can't/don't make them to people who are on bubhub? Perhaps this question is better directed to the mods.

It seems to be a double standard. Sorry if I sound pious, but like I said I don't support this lady's actions - just pointing out an anomile (sp?) We shouldn't be judging her, but helping her.

I think the suggestion to approach the lady and volunteer support is a good idea. :yes:
Love,
Nan. xx

[daisyxs]

maybe you could just let her raise her child her own way :idea:
if u dont want to smack ur child then don't but dont take it upon urself to judge her style of parenting.

i smack my kids so if you r going to report her u may as well report me and all of the other parents that do the same.

if someone came up to me and told me off for disciplining my children i would be well within my right to tell them what they could do with their opinion.

i have smacked them for squirming when getting their bum changed, not enough to make them cry but so that they take notice and stay still.

each to their own, any person with the slightest bit of common sense know that there is a mighty big line between smacking and abuse. and if not then they shouldnt be having kids

Daisy

[KiLLaKaZ]

oooh - i love these contraversial topics!! ;)

i tried reading the whole thread, but only got about halfway through it.


my experience with discipline:
i had many wooden spoons & hairbrushes broken on my bum as i was growing up, but i never once thought i was being abused! i did wrong, & got a smack for it, sometimes it was a couple of smacks (not persistant smacking tho!)

my parents didn't smack my younger sister & now i think they are paying for it! she won't listen to them AT ALL & never did because she knew they wouldn't do anything to her.tho, i think in her case there are other options they could persue such as following through with threatened punishments (e.g. when they say she can't leave the house till her room is tidy, to actually follow through! her room is knee-deep in mess, & i'm NOT exaggerating!!)

my view on discipline:
it is my belief (from my religion) that the father is primarily (not exclusively, tho) supposed to disipline, the mother to nurture. however, this doesn't quite work when u r a single parent (like me!)

i also believe that each child responds to different types of discipline differently - u just need to find the one that works. some children will respond to verbal cues, others to time out & others need smacks to remind them.

personally, i don't agree with having a 'naughty corner'. i think it's demeaning & unnecessarily humiliating a child. i remember teachers doing that to us in the classroom - we had a 'naughty desk' & students that got put there were ridiculed by the teacher AND the rest of the class!

i'm hoping my daughter is like my niece - from when she was a baby, u just had to tell her to 'stop your nonsense tantrums because they won't work' - & she stopped! (she gets the occasional smack & is better for it)

[Mister Noodle]

It's very simple - when the woman does it, smack her.

It's not violence, it's loving discipline.

How else can she be expected to learn?

[the_queen]

Although he is definitely stirring the pot, I think Mister Noodle has a valid point (and, btw, a right to his opinion, no matter if you agree with him or not).

When you smack a child, it's because they've done something wrong, correct?

So if this woman is doing the wrong thing by smacking her baby, shouldn't we therefore use corporal punishment on her??



As I see it, smacking doesn't address the problem. I could smack my daughter every time she talked back to me, and she probably would stop the backchat. But why would she have stopped? Because she was afraid I would hurt her if she did that again. And that's not how I want her to see me, and it's not a good enough reason for her to stop being disrespectful. I want to teach her that she should do the right thing because it's the right thing to do - not because she doesn't want to get in trouble.

I used to get smacked as a kid, I used to get in trouble every now and then. If I'd been caught more often, I would have been in a lot more trouble. Physical punishment taught me one thing: DON'T GET CAUGHT.

[Mister Noodle]

Hmm...

The 'naughty step' sounds like a reasonable technique - but certainly NEVER in association with shame, ridicule or being made an example of.

That'd be an easy road to go down, and I imagine it would be disastrous. You'd have to be very, very careful to make sure it was always dispassionate, that other children weren't allowed to tease, and that you never used comparison as leverage - no "See, you're a good boy, not like him..." or other stage-whispered little taunts.

A lot of arguments against the naughty step seem to stem from the shame-and-ridicule approach, which all too many have been subjected to. I think there's a big difference between how people see it and how it's intended to be used.

[reAllytee]

[text deleted by moderator]



When you smack a child, it's because they've done something wrong, correct?

So if this woman is doing the wrong thing by smacking her baby, shouldn't we therefore use corporal punishment on her??

I dont smack my child in anger nor if he does something wrong especially as he is 16mths & wouldnt know what "wrong" is. He gets a tap if he wont respond to verbal commands & diversion not to touch something that will hurt him as a last resort & trust me this is after repeated attempts etc.

This woman obviously has anger issues as ive previously stated as she is lashing out on a baby for starters & for no reason except for it wriggling.



As I see it, smacking doesn't address the problem. I could smack my daughter every time she talked back to me, and she probably would stop the backchat. But why would she have stopped? Because she was afraid I would hurt her if she did that again. And that's not how I want her to see me, and it's not a good enough reason for her to stop being disrespectful. I want to teach her that she should do the right thing because it's the right thing to do - not because she doesn't want to get in trouble.

I used to get smacked as a kid, I used to get in trouble every now and then. If I'd been caught more often, I would have been in a lot more trouble. Physical punishment taught me one thing: DON'T GET CAUGHT.

I would never even think to smack a child for back chatting just as many here who have stated they do smack their child wouldnt either as its not suitable.

I was smacked as a child also & i can tell you it taught me to respect my parents & to understand that they like me were stopping me from doing something where i could hurt myself or because as children the things my sisters & i would do ( my sister purposely rammed a spoon down my throat once & then you have the story of my eldest sister paying my other sister to run away from home with me as a newborn LOL ! My sister made it to the park down the street !!! )
Anyways all im saying if done in a responsible manner & without anger it can be useful as can many other ways of disciplining a child. But i guess that then brings up where is that line ....
Guess parenthood is a neverending learning curve !

[reAllytee]

Hmm...

The 'naughty step' sounds like a reasonable technique - but certainly NEVER in association with shame, ridicule or being made an example of.

That'd be an easy road to go down, and I imagine it would be disastrous. You'd have to be very, very careful to make sure it was always dispassionate, that other children weren't allowed to tease, and that you never used comparison as leverage - no "See, you're a good boy, not like him..." or other stage-whispered little taunts.

A lot of arguments against the naughty step seem to stem from the shame-and-ridicule approach, which all too many have been subjected to. I think there's a big difference between how people see it and how it's intended to be used.


Thats why this worries me as many are using this as a form of discipline nowadays so scarring a child in some ways much more.
Humiliation is the lowest point for a child & i hate seeing it used.
I worked in childcare for awhile & this one place had a naughty stool & hat :( which the child had to sit on wearing this hat in front of everyone was sickening needless to say i ended up giving that career away from some of the practices i saw :shame: .
As ive said any discipline needs to be done very carefully.
Im lucky in that yes ive tapped Boof a few times but only in extreme cases but overall he sees my face & tends to realise he has done wrong or even my tone of voice. Shame im not as gruff as Daddy cause he can make him cry just by saying " Harrison " DP doesnt even raise his voice tis weird but i guess he knows he has done wrong & is sad about it. He then comes over & does his version of an apology which is a head tilt & often putting his head into your lap which means lots & lots of cuddles.
We believe in cuddles & love first & foremost :yes:

[Mister Noodle]

I agree - humiliation and shame are two emotions your child should never be made to feel.

That's why I like the Naughty Step, used the way it's meant to be (as far as I can tell) - it's dispassionate and impersonal. It's not something you are doing to the child, it's something the child has to do. It's emotionally neutral - there's nothing actually bad about sitting on a step; what's going on is a demonstration of power, but not via extortion as so many other techniques blur into. There's no pain or shame or fear or guilt or humiliation, just extreme disgruntlement at being made to obey.

It fits in well with the way I was raised and the style of parenting I favour: very, very few rules - map out the barest, most absolutely critical boundaries on behaviour, and give them completely free reign within them... but absolutely *no* leeway outside the bounds that are set.

The walls are reinforced concrete, so don't waste your time trying to push through them. You can't engage them in battle, you can't get angry at them, they're just... walls. You have a tantrum and throw your dinner on the floor - that's not on, you know it's not on, and you aren't going to do that again. We say what happens in this house, and here's proof: You will go and sit on the naughty step, right now. That's not a question, that's a statement of fact.

Domination, but not tyranny. Constantly reinforce the hierarchy, but without undermining it with destructive emotions. By doing so, you train them to actually see bad behaviour as unacceptable themselves - this is how you act, and anything else just isn't on. And of course, use positive reinforcement for good behaviour, in exactly the same way, for exactly the same reason. (and a lot more of it, as well)

If you wield your power consistently and sparingly, kids can and will respect it. I know I always did.

[AppleBlossym]

maybe you could just let her raise her child her own way :idea:
if u dont want to smack ur child then don't but dont take it upon urself to judge her style of parenting.

i smack my kids so if you r going to report her u may as well report me and all of the other parents that do the same.

if someone came up to me and told me off for disciplining my children i would be well within my right to tell them what they could do with their opinion.

i have smacked them for squirming when getting their bum changed, not enough to make them cry but so that they take notice and stay still.

each to their own, any person with the slightest bit of common sense know that there is a mighty big line between smacking and abuse. and if not then they shouldnt be having kids

Daisy

Yes I could let her raise her child in her own way, but imagine how it would feel if this little baby got a beating one day! I know I would feel absoluteley terrible to know I may have been able to stop that.

Her baby cries and yet she still smacks him:no: :mad:

I cannot beleive you, yourself would hit a baby. A poor defenceless baby who needs nothing but love.

[porridge]

I think there is quite a bit of difference between hitting a 'baby' and hitting a 'toddler'. From how you described it, this ladies 'baby' is actually a 'toddler' (just a little under 1?)

I have a 3 month old and I don't smack him - he doesn't understand 'no' yet, but as he gets older - is crawling and moving around a bit more - 'no' is an extremely important word that he will learn.

I will use smacking as a form of discipline if and when he doesn't respond to NO, especially for his own safety (for example - going towards a hot oven, heater or playing with power cords)

I think it would be ok to get along side this woman if you really are concerned. Ask how she's going - she could be under a lot of stress. But it's really damaging to jump to conclusions. Don't report her - talk to her first! :thumbsup:

[ButterflyKisses]

Another point I would like to make is that a lot of people that I have met (and I am not saying that all are like this!) who refuse to smack their kids are the ones who yell at them instead and call them idiots or stupid or morons ... I never call my children names as my job as a parent is to build their self esteem, not drag them down! Kyra I've been following your posts on this thread and tend to agree with your way of thinking.

We use the naughty corner for our DS and have since he was 2. Before then he didn't get the concept and wouldn't stay in the corner so we use to use the change in tone and that worked well. We still use the change in tone and if that doesn't work and the behaviour continues then that to us is classified as disobedience and warrants further action so it's off to the naughty corner.

We are very lucky as our DS has a very passive nature so we rarely have to resort to the naughty corner and when we do it flows like clockwork just as the Supernanny instructs. He sits, doesn't cry, doesn't perform, try to get away, not backchat etc, he waits his 3 mins and when we go back he automatically apologises without prompting and then we hug/kiss etc and he happily goes off.

On rare occasions before starting the naughty corner and when our change in tone didn't work we have given him a tap on the nappy and that nipped the behaviour in the butt. Usually redirecting his attention even now prevents him from having to go into the naughty corner.

now back to what Kyra said above. Our methods of discipline are working with our DS. I have a friend (well she's not a friend friend she's a lady that use to go to our playgroup) who doesn't believe in smacking her 3 yr old DD but she believes in yelling at her when she is naughty that she is "a little sh*t head", "stop f*cking doing that or else", "sit on that f*cking chair you bl**dy little sh*t", "come f*cking here when you are told", "oh for *****'s sake cut it out" etc etc.

That child doesn't get smacked, her mother reckons she doesn't do anything to deserve to get smacked but she will speak to her DD like that. Not only that but her DD smacks, scratches, pulls hair, bites other children like there's no tomorrow. My DS has been victim to all her behaviour on several occasions and when I raise it with her mum she doesn't think her DD deserves a smack. I now see them on rare occasions as I didn't want my DS subjected to a bullying kid especially when the mother doesn't pull her into line. Now because of the bad language in that house her 3 yr old DD is now swearing like a trouper.

further to above - my DS has never smacked, scratched, bitten, bullied another child.

as for the mother that this post is about I think the suggestion about having someone from outside of playgroup speak to everyone in the playgroup is a great idea. That way it doesn't cause conflict or victimise this lady and hopefully the message will get through.

[KiLLaKaZ]

i think one of the main problem with the 'naughty corner/ stool' is the name. there needs to be something more neutral that is still associated with being naughty, e.g. (as mentioned earlier) 'time out'). i think kids often do something naughty, then regret it (i know i used to ALL the time when i was little - but i just wanted attention!) so, they r embarrassed enough to have done something naughty (& been caught), but isolating them & putting them in a naughty corner/ on a naughty stool just humiliates them more.

anyway, i think this conversation will just go 'round & 'round - everyone has their clear views on the topic. i just hate the fact that if i'm out at the shops when Qila's 3 or older & i find it necessary to give her a smack, that people will judge me for it. i think we should all be free to use whatever discipline style we choose freely - as long as it's not ABUSE (yes, i view abuse as different to giving a child one or two smacks, which need to be done when the parent is calm, not in the heat of the moment)


btw - out of curiosity, what do u do when out at the shops & a toddler misbehaves? u can't exactly send them to a naughty corner?! i just want to know for ideas of what i can use when q's older...

[the_queen]

killakaz, when DD was a toddler and "misbehaved", in other words when she behaved like a toddler, I used the following techniques (ooh I sound like Supernanny now LOL):

Forward planning: be a little bit organised, and either don't go out when the child is tired/hungry/upset, or just accept that they are tired/hungry/upset and have some understanding of how they are feeling, and how their emotions affect their actions.

Distraction: Bring something with me to distract her. If we're going to have lunch with a friend at a cafe, bring some toys/books/colouring stuff.

Have realistic expectations: Learn about normal child development, and also get to know your child and their personality, and don't be unrealistic in what you expect from them.


I think we in this thread will just have to agree to disagree about whether smacking is effective or not. We'll never convince each other to change our opinion. :)

[ButterflyKisses]

i think one of the main problem with the 'naughty corner/ stool' is the name. there needs to be something more neutral that is still associated with being naughty, e.g. (as mentioned earlier) 'time out'). i think kids often do something naughty, then regret it (i know i used to ALL the time when i was little - but i just wanted attention!) so, they r embarrassed enough to have done something naughty (& been caught), but isolating them & putting them in a naughty corner/ on a naughty stool just humiliates them more.

anyway, i think this conversation will just go 'round & 'round - everyone has their clear views on the topic. i just hate the fact that if i'm out at the shops when Qila's 3 or older & i find it necessary to give her a smack, that people will judge me for it. i think we should all be free to use whatever discipline style we choose freely - as long as it's not ABUSE (yes, i view abuse as different to giving a child one or two smacks, which need to be done when the parent is calm, not in the heat of the moment)

Todate I haven't found the naughty corner to be a humilating experience for our DS. He knows he's been naughty and therefore there is a consequence for his actions.

Doing it a home when there is only me and DS or when DH is at home is very different from a teacher humiliating a child in front of the whole class. That to me is no way to discipline a child and obviously has very bad repercussions as well as taunting from the classmates. I think a trip to the principals office or asking the child to see you after class for a bit of a talking to is all that is needed in a classroom environment and then perhaps telling the child that if it happens again that his/her parents will be notified.

When I was going to infants school we had a teacher that got off on humiliating students. She would make them suck dummies, tie ribbons in the boys hair, make them stand in the class garbage bin in the front of the classroom, put them in a cupboard in the classroom. One day she did that and forgot about the child and it wasn't until the frantic parents raised the alarm that their child didn't come home from school that the teacher was contacted and realised she'd left the child in the cupboard. Mind you she was never sacked or had disciplinary action taken against her. Hard to believe isn't it but we are talking about 30 odd years ago - couldn't imagine she'd ever have gotten away with any of it these days. :shame:


btw - out of curiosity, what do u do when out at the shops & a toddler misbehaves? u can't exactly send them to a naughty corner?! i just want to know for ideas of what i can use when q's older... so far we've been very lucky. DS loves going to the shops especially when we do the grocery shopping. I tell him what we need and direct him to where it is so he can get it and put it in the trolley and then ask him what else does he think we need and he'll suggest something and I'll say "yes we need that" or "no we've already got some at home". He then loves helping to put the groceries on the counter. I give him heaps of praise and he gets that real proud look on his face that he's done a fantastic job and then when daddy gets home from work DS loves telling daddy what he did at the shops.

if he ever is stepping outside the boundary I just use a tone and "the look" and he pulls himself back into line. Plenty of praise etc works a treat for him and then when the shopping is over he'll say "can we sit down and can I have some dippits" (dippits = Aldi's brand of cream cheese and crackers). We've made a habit of going to Gloria Jeans so I can have a cappa after shopping and he looks forward to sitting up at the table and having his dippits and OJ.

each child is different - they all have different natures so different methods work differently. My DH and myself are fairly passive type of people so luckily DS has inherited our nature and I think by memory over the last 12 months of using the naughty corner at home we've only had to use it approx 6 times.

[Elijahsmama]

So if this woman is doing the wrong thing by smacking her baby, shouldn't we therefore use corporal punishment on her??
Im sorry but a child and an adult are completly different so therefore you cant apply the same boundries and punishments to them both. You would'nt sack a child for being out of line or imprison them or fine them but you would with an adult. Same as you would'nt smack a adult, send them to the corner, etc.
I think everyone whos for smacking have said that they will give a little smack as the last resort. IMO i think western society has become very soft on discipline and the methods we use. I dont think children will be mentally scarred by a tap on the bum every now and again (as the last resort).

[Elijahsmama]

DH was expelled the following week to the cane being banned! I think it worked for many but i dont think that it was right to allow teachers to perform physical discipline.
I was made to sit outside the principals office at lunchtime to write lines if i misbehaved at Primary Sch and although i was embarrassed at other kids looking at me it only showed me that there would be consequences for my actions and to think twice before i misbehaved again.

[DB&O]

I don't beleive in hitting/smacking. It doesn't have a place in our home & thats not because of any trauma in my childhood, in fact I was not smacked by my parents & neither was DH & as a result we know that we can succesfully parent & discipline Olivia without being physical :yes:

[Cinta]

Elijah'sMama, I agree. Being a little embarrassed because you got into trouble and had to face the consequences also made me think twice before doing something like that again.

In kindy or pre-primary we had what was called the 'naughty chair'. I was a good girl so I hardly ever had to go sit on the chair ;) but once or twice when i was naughty it taught me not to misbehave because their are consequences. I think its all part of growing up and learning, you have to face the music in life!, you cant just do something bad and get away with it.

When I was younger we were smacked as kids. Not often, and not hard but enough to make sure we knew that what we did was wrong. Of course, there were other methods of parenting and smacking was only used if it was something bad, but there is a big difference between smacking and abuse. Of course the smack hurt (well only a little, and I think I cried only coz I got the smack not because of the pain!) but I turned out fine and I think that smacking is often needed in discipline. Sometimes other methods just dont work and they dont teach the kids anything.

I think a lot of the time it depends on what method works for you and your child.

I will probably smack my child, but only a little smack on the behind. It won't be too hard, the child will know they did wrong. I will have a chat to my child afterwards to ensure they know that they misbehaved and that I still love them but they were just naughty for mummy. I will probably use other methods first though. It is not abuse at all. It just teaches the child to not be naughty because they might get a little smack.

I don't believe in smacking babies though, they are too young to understand that they are doing something wrong. When they get older i think its not going to do them any harm. Will do more good then harm.

That lady was totally out of line smacking her baby for no reason. Makes me quite angry.

A lot of the time, I think a 'no' in a stern voice works. DF's nephew is about one and it works for him. We tell him 'no' so that he doesn't hurt himself and he understands that he is not allowed to do what he was doing. We then distract him with something else to play with.

Although I will occasionally be smacking my child, it doesn't make me any less a parent. I think some of the comments aren't nice.

Pigbeer, Each to their own, we all have different methods of parenting and sometimes you dont understand what works until you become a parent! (and hey, im not critisicing you coz my baby was only born last month so i will be learning!)

Just my opinion.....:) :)

[Mischief]

I was smacked too, and it made me much better behaved. So I belive anyway. I can never remember being smacked as such, but I knew not to do something wrong, because their were consequences.

At the same time I always knew that if I made a mistake and did something wrong, if I told mum she would fix it, I wouldnt be punished.

I will smack Oliver too, but I hope that it will be something of rare occurance!!!

[SassyMummy]

A few pages back, there was a comparison drawn between smacking a child and a man smacking his wife. IMO, there really is no such comparison.

A child is a child. The parent is the boss. It is up to the parent to discipline the child.

In a relationship however, I believe that both people are EQUALS. There is no boss. There should be no disciplining from either side.

Therefore, I think that comparing smacking a naughty child on the bum to a man slapping his wife is a bit ridiculous. A man slapping his wife should NOT be slapping his wife because she is his equal...not his child. It's not up to him to tell her what she can/can't do. It is to a parent, however, to tell their child what they are allowed to do, and punish/reward them when they get things wrong/right.

[MumsieMel]

I feel that sometimes a smack is warranted, but never on a baby!!!! :shame:

[Mister Noodle]

Aren't good relationships all about boundaries, expectations and obligations?

My wife tells me what to do *all the time* - and from what I gather, she's hardly alone in this.

So, next rebuttal please.

[twolittlegirls]

Smacking a baby is wrong. It wouldn't understand. I am not against smacking but I would never smack a baby. I'm not saying that I will one day use smacking as discipline (my little girl is 9 months).

My parents never smacked me, they just threaten it and that was enough for me. A friend was telling me that her Mum use to carry a wooden spoon around in her handbag. When they were naughty in public she just opened her bag and they would be good. Same when they were home, she just use to go to the draw where it was kept and they would be good! She said they never got smacked with it once!

I don't agree with smacking a baby but I also think that if a parent chooses to use this form of discipline (and only on an older child) its there right. But then some people take it further then a smack on the bum.

[sugar n spice]

I ticked no as i dont agree with smacking babies - they dont understand anyhow. As they get older it depends on what they have done

[SassyMummy]

While partners may tell each other what to do, it's not the same as telling a child what to do.

I tell DP what to do - because I want him to do it. It's normally about looking after DD and such. If he doesn't do it - I get sh*tty and whinge and nag and such.

While many people in relationships may tell their partners what to do, and then "punish" them for it (by yelling at them/fighting/sulking etc), it doesn't mean that this is how a relationship SHOULD be. In all honestly, I have no right to order DP around because he is an adult. I should ASK him to do stuff...but I don't.

It is, however, my responsibility as a parent to tell my daughter what to do. I will be TELLING her to clean her room/do her homework/eat her dinner when she's older. I won't be asking. It is my job to make sure she is living healthily and it is my job to make sure she can grow into a brilliant adult.

It's not my responsibility to make sure my partner does certain things...even if I want him to. It's up to him, and him alone.

[JATS]

IMHO Being in a position of authority dosen't give you the right to use violence against another human being. I'd be sure unimpressed if my boss ever smacked me for stuffing up back in my workig days...

[misskittyfantastico]

I was smacked on the bum twice as a child. I was talking to mum (the smacker) about this the other day and she has no recollection of what I did but she remembers that she was at the end of her rope. She still feels guilt about these two smacks....I don't want to put myself through the grief...smacking accomplishes nothing in my view.

Don't get me wrong, I stongly believe in discipline...and will strongly discipline my child. I just believe that loving discipline doesn't involve smacking.

[OM]

IMHO Being in a position of authority dosen't give you the right to use violence against another human being.


I got a whack across the backside when I was younger quite often and you know it never did me any harm at all! I learnt my lessons and I learnt them quickly - different parenting styles suit different ppl!

[Cinta]

I agree with SassyMummy and Oscar's Mum!! Very good points :yes:

[AppleBlossym]

yep a few of the posts have really got my goat!


REMEMBER WHAT MY ORIGINAL POST SAID!!!!
This woman is hitting A BABY:thumbsdown:

You can disipline your kids however you like...I really don't care cos thats not the issue here!

I will never hit my child, but if you do....good luck to you.

If you hit a baby however, you should be deeply ashamed of yourself and IMO should get help.

I will be seeing this woman over the next 2 days, and I will attempt to talk to her, if that dosen't work I will be thinking seriously about talking to child welfare.

[misskittyfantastico]

sorry for going off track....you should report this woman.

[Verdi]

Definately Do Not Smack a BABY!!!
There is no way, she should have counselling


Also, it stihs me to think that in the 60's wild beating of children was not only OK, but was accepted as 'discipline' but a soft slap of a woman was not.

Think twice before you say this, SassyMummy, ok.:idea:

You can discipline without hitting, and NOBODY should really hit, not even a parent.

Do you classify beating and smacking as the same thing???:no:

No one has the right to enforce their opinions on others unless there is just cause, i think their is a difference when you see a mum at the shops, giving a tap or a little smack on the bum after the kid has thrown a full on tantrum, to a beating child with broken bones, internal injuries and so forth.

Why is it when we see drug addicted mothers shoot up, and then verbally and neglect the child, we say oh poor thing lets put her into rehab, When we see a mum and dad smacking a child out of love we say oh isn't that terrible.

Once my son ran out into the street, i smacked him on the bum, why cause he did not have fear, so i had installed that fear for his own benefit, he couldn't understand verbally, this worked he hasn't done it since.
I would say this was done out of love.

Clearly guys there is a difference between a beating and a smack!:idea:

If you choose not too smack, then thats youre right, if a parent chooses to smack it's their right too.

[AppleBlossym]

Candyn,

Do you think its ok to hit a baby till it cries?

Oh good, I see you edited your post:)

[Verdi]

Nope That is VERY VERY WRONG!!!

[Verdi]

Why does she do it?
How old is the baby?
She may PND????

[misskittyfantastico]

No one has the right to enforce their opinions on others unless there is just cause, i think their is a difference when you see a mum at the shops, giving a tap or a little smack on the bum after the kid has thrown a full on tantrum, to a beating child with broken bones, internal injuries and so forth.

Why is it when we see drug addicted mothers shoot up, and then verbally and neglect the child, we say oh poor thing lets put her into rehab, When we see a mum and dad smacking a child out of love we say oh isn't that terrible.
.

Oh give me a break! out of Love???? there is always an alternative to smacking....whether you choose to think of it is up to you...but cut the "love" rubbish. We smack out of fear, frustration and anger NOT love. I am not saying parent who smack don't love their children, I'm saying that love is not the reason people smack.

[AppleBlossym]

I agree there misskittyfantastico!

Cmon camdyn, out of love, thats such a load of crock!:no:

[Verdi]

Misskittyfantastico - don't atagonise us. It is out of love to prevent danger to our children and teach them right from wrong, i definately have no problem with this method, yes there are other methods, but my dear girl it doesn't always work!!! I know My oldest was very trying and i have done everything i possible could, the last straw was a smack, and it worked for him he is now a beautiful child and very well balanced and very well loved, my second all you have to do is raise your voice and he'll listen. It is really important to not attack others for their right of choice of disciplinary action.:thumbsdown:

[JorBai]

I dont believe in smacking for any reason :shame:

I do believe however children need to be disciplined and taught if they do something wrong.

I know if Bailey does something wrong then he will be sent to the naughty corner or maybe lose toys to play with. He will never be smacked, it achieves nothing.

[JorBai]

I understand where your coming from Candyn, personally I wont smack Bailey but I believe that if that is your form of discipline its your choice.

I dont think every parent that smacks a child is abusing a child.

[misskittyfantastico]

okay, I'm out....you have basically reiterated everything I said in my post....SOMETHING else will work....you choose not to pick this option, you choose to smack.
I'm not antagonising, I'm giving my opinion as the OP asked us to do.
If you feel attacked, that's really all about you.
Also I'm not dear
And far from a girl:rolleyes:

[Verdi]

I understand where your coming from Candyn, personally I wont smack Bailey but I believe that if that is your form of discipline its your choice.

I dont think every parent that smacks a child is abusing a child.
Exactly, you have the choice and i have the choice.

Bear in mind it is always the last result and i don't think i have smacked my oldest in about a year!! He is out of the tantrum stage well he should be he is 7.:)

The little one all i say is JAYDEN then he starts to :crying:


SOMETHING else will work....you choose not to pick this option, you choose to smack.MMMM Didn't i say it was the Last Straw!!! When Everything else fails!!!

[Ana Gram]

There is a mother in my playgroup who smacks her baby. He is just under 1. And he cries and she still keeps doing it. I've seen her myself whilst she changes his nappy and he is not doing anything that a normal squirmy baby would do.

A few of the other mums have also commented.

The thing that worries me is, is that if she does this in public, what does she do at home?

I also know of a few other mums that smack their babies.

I would NEVER hit my baby in any form. I just do not beleive in smacking children at all. I don't beleive it acheives anything.

What are your veiws, I'd be very interested to know.


Well done on an explosive entrance to this forum. To be perfectly honest, you have given us very limited infomation. A smack to you might not be a smack to me.

The people who should be ashamed of themselves are the people who sit on an internet forum telling other people they should be ashamed of themselves when they have never even met the parent, the child and lived in their life.

[TwoBlue]

[FONT=Arial Black]The thing that worries me is, is that if she does this in public, what does she do at home?


This comment concerns me...

If she is happy to smack in public then that is probably the extent of what she does...

I have been known to smack DS Samuel when no other forms of discipline have worked... i would hate to think people think i do WORSE at home ...

Just because someone is prepared to "smack" their child doesnt mean they go home and "beat" them...

[AppleBlossym]

So am I not allowed this opinion?!

It does actually really worry me, if this bothers you so much, take no notice of it.

I asked for the opinion, so I could work out how to deal with this diplomatically.

Again if this bothers you, take no notice of this thread.

[gremily]

Everyone has their own form of disipline. I and DF do not condone smacking at all. I hated my parents (mainly mum) for smacking me, and DF used to get the belt among other things.
There are other ways to disipline children, like your tone of voice, consequences, etc. I believe smacking is done when there is a lack of knowledge and self control. I'm not saying only uneducated parents do it, both of my parents are teachers, but if the only thing you know is smacking I guess that's what you'll end up doing. If you learn other ways to disipline it makes for a much happier family.
As for the self control, I know all to well the anger and frustration that comes from an unruly child. But learning to channel that anger and frustration into something else makes all the difference.
We rarely ever have to disipline DD1 (shes 8) and shes never been in trouble at school. She values how we treat her, and gets extremely upset when we do disipline her - tone of voice, sitting on her bed for ....... minutes, and following through with consequences.

There's enough violence in our society and I don't believe we should be teaching our children that it's okay to hit out at people when they're being bad.

Great thread, by the way!

[misskittyfantastico]

You do have the right to your opinion AB...this is a good thread. If people don't like it, that's their problem. After all this forum is about advice, opinions, support etc...
Funny what some people deem to be judgement.:rolleyes:

[Elijahsmama]

Pigbeer - none of your posts make any sense to me! I have absolutely no idea what your trying to say.
I will never smack my children without warnings and only after other methods have failed. Even though i choose to smack that does not mean im uneducated in other forms of discipline techniques. I have read up large and studied childcare and work in the childcare industry (I would NEVER smack or even discipline other children without the parents consent). Not everyones going to see eye to eye when it comes to raising their children but as long as the parents have their child's best interest in mind and the child is well-loved I think the parents are doing a fabulous job, whether they smack or not.
DS has been getting taps on the hand for a couple of months now and hes 10mths old. These taps dont hurt as he laughs when im giving him high-fives at the same force. He will usually stop when told no but if he hasnt after a few no's he gets a tap and he will always stop immediatly after, he dosent always cry but sometimes he does - same when i only say no aswell. I wont always give him taps after a no but at the moment he's too young for reasoning with timeout/privillages removed/talks about why he needs to stop, etc and when he is old enough to use these methods i hope i will never have to resort to a smack but i will give him one if need be. Never out of anger, i will put myself into timeout if i need to!
I know most of you wont understand how i can tap my 10mth old, but it works for us and all those that know him know hes a happy, well loved boy who gets lots of attention and praise, etc. His upbringing will be full of love, care, consistency and honesty but hes probaly going to have alot more boundries than most kids and in the end all i want is the best for my child, which im sure all of you do. I look at children on a worldwide scale and IMO i think children are alot more capable then those in the western world give credit and discipline plays a big role in that.

Each to their own!!!!! Dont criticise others parenting styles.
As for the lady, im glad you are confronting her before reporting her. I hope it all works out. Keep us updated on how it went. (nosey, i know!)

[Mister Noodle]

It's funny, you know.

On this thread, the pro-violence people are calling for people not to judge until we've walked a mile in the person's shoes, because who knows what they have to go through...

On the death penalty thread, on the other hand...

[reAllytee]

It's funny, you know.

On this thread, the pro-violence people are calling for people not to judge until we've walked a mile in the person's shoes, because who knows what they have to go through...

On the death penalty thread, on the other hand...

Sorry but saying a parent who smacks is pro-violence is rather extreme & rude.

[razzle]

Mmmm I think this thread has gone waaaay off-topic.

Thanks to everyone for your contributions but I think that it's time to close it.