my friend seems to think

[em1984]

My friend seems to think water is not used in the production of disposables :confused: (we are having an argument as I just told her im switching to cloth). Can anyone provide me with the right info or even a link in regards to this??

Thanks :o

p.s. this is what she said:

but YOU don't pay for the making of the disposable nappies do you? and water being as rare a commodity as it is, is not used in the production of disposable nappies. power yes... plastic yes. contributing to landfill yes... none of which you pay for. water.. you do... and so does everyone else when you use more than you need to than if you used disposable ones.
adding to your wash will increase the amount of loads in the long run... unless you're running the washing machine without full loads at the moment... which you shouldn't be doing cos of water blah blah...

[Chunkydunks]

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

I'll see what I can find

[Chunkydunks]

http://www.whatcanonepersondo.com/blog/index.php?/archives/29-Disposable-Nappies-1-billion-trees-per-year-are-destroyed-to-make-em,-and-thats-just-the-start!.html (http://www.whatcanonepersondo.com/blog/index.php?/archives/29-Disposable-Nappies-1-billion-trees-per-year-are-destroyed-to-make-em,-and-thats-just-the-start%21.html)


18 billion disposable nappies enter landfills each year It takes 500 years for 1 disposable nappy to decompose 82,000 tons of plastic needed each year to make disposable nappies 1.3million tons of wood pulp needed each year to make disposable nappies 250,000 trees needed each year to make disposable nappies The production of disposable nappies uses around 3.5 times the amount of energy used for a cloth nappy. The production of disposable nappies uses over twice the amount of water used for washing cloth nappies. Disposable nappies use over 8 times the amount of non renewable raw materials and a whopping 90 times the amount of renewable materials (measured in weight). For one child with an average 6 nappies a day over 2.5 years, approximately 734 kg of solid waste goes into landfill. Disposable nappies are not bio-degradable and can sit in our landfill for hundreds of years. It takes thousands of gallons of water, paper from our trees and bleach and chemical absorbers to make disposables look white, clean and fresh when you pull them out of a packet.

[em1984]

thanks! she also said this:

i;m not saying you SHOULD use disposable nappies. Cloth nappies are much friendlier to the environment. I'm saying that it will be more costlier... if that is a word... i think costly. you underestimate the water/power cost associated with what?... 5475 nappies to be washed. The $1025 you save on buying nappies... you will more than spend in the washing and drying. not to mention the more time invested... which would be the bigger problem for lazy people like me.
industry use of water (which in most cases is recycled) in the manufacturing of most plastic goods is so small in comparison to the 40+ L per wash load, it is negligable.

Also cloth nappies leak more which will mean changing more often and washing the clothes more often... links to website advocating either side will never be unbiased and so I would really only take notice of some kind of substantiated experiment.

there are napier services which will wash and dry and pick up and deliver and you never even have to purchase the nappies. they use recycled water plants and might even be less expensive in the long run.


aaarrggghh help me win this argument!!! Im pulling facts out of everywhere but she keeps coming back with stuff hahaha

[missie_mack]

Generally speaking you need water to create electricity too... and water to grow the products in the nappy

[MamaLlama]

Of course water is used in making them.
I'm an AVID disposables user, I would never go back to cloth. So I'm not normally here in these threads but saw it on the dialy posts.

To me the water argument isn't about the amount of water in production of disposables not being significant, it is. But for me, since cloth were a total failure (every single one leaked every single time for the 2 months I used them), it was about the increase in washing - not just the cloth nappies themselves but all the clothes and sheets and upholstery that needed cleaning.

To me it was about the work involved in THAT, plus all the water used in that on top of the washing.

Probably I still used more water due to the production of disposables, but it was worth it to me to cut down on the exhaustion of cleaning every surface affected by the daily leaks. However, given all that extra washing I would have gone close I think to equalling the disposables-water usage when I used cloth.

If you never have leaks that's different. If you don't mind cleaning the sofa every day that's different.

But yes, of course they use water making disposables, that's kind of obvious.

[MamaLlama]

Its just a guess but she could mean something like this:

Because of the competition in disposable nappies, they are priced at market fairly competitively and the margin is a lot smaller than that needed to factor in the full cost of the power/water/insert other utility.

So even though you SHOULD be paying for those inputs you are not paying for them at the same rates you would if you were switching the light on, turning the tap on at your house...you're getting a discount because of the mass production and competition in disposable nappies?

Is that what she's saying? Not quite sure. That argument could be right but has nothing to do with the environmental impact really.

I totally accept that I had a bigger impact on the environment than if I'd used cloth (though I think it was very marginal due to cloth's total failure on my bub). However it was worth it to me. I am not going to martyr myself for the environment. I'll do my bit in other ways but cloth nappies is asking too much in my case.

[LeeJ]

http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=62852

have a squiz at this one, its facts and things about cloth vs sposie.

:laughing:never thought i would use cloth, but i swayed a few weeks ago, best move!

[2boyoboys]

To be honest, Cloth is the better of 2 evils. The only truly environmental option is EC (elimination communication).

You do pay for the cos of producing the nappies, that is why they are $30+ a box!! you pay for the ink, the marketing, the distribution, and you do pay for them to go into land fill- RATES and taxes!!- im not sure what this person is thinking but all cost are always passed onto the consumer.

The difference is that your already paying for water and detergent so the extra cost is minimal compared to the 30 odd sposie nappies kids generally go through a week.

We do one extra load of washing every 2 days- so 2.5 loads a week and these are only half loads and only use half the water. but we also enjoy the convenience of sposies.

if you want to do it, then go ahead- ur friend will never be convinced

[trin_007]

I don't suppose you have a water tank to compensate for your extra water usage? Just a thought!

[oliviasmumma]

Hey Em,
sometimes its just not worth arguing about.... thats what I've found - some people just want to think what they want and arent open to listen to others.

Deb xx

[Zalia]

Water use is still pretty cheap considering its scarcity so I think if you run the numbers you can prove to your friend that cloth is still cheaper. It adds 3 or 4 loads a week @ 60L a load with my machine (front loader). Thats about 13kL a year. Melbourne water costs around $3 a kL so $40 a year for all the water used. Peanuts really.

You only use 1/2 the washing powder of a normal load. I haven't worked out the annual cost but I don't think it would be huge.

I found a website once that did the calcs but can't find it now :rolleyes:.

[poppie]

As far as the environment goes, CHOICE did a study that concluded little difference between the two. I started with cloth with DD1 but she would get horrendous rashes no matter how often they were changed, now we use the enviro "friendly" disposables and the do cost a fortune! As far as no water being used in the production of disposables, of course water is used!

[Izy]

Heres some calcs I did a while back...

click here (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?p=2394780)

[veve]

if you're going to argue with her - while the environment is a fantastic reason to use cloth .. there are other ways to discuss options with her .. :laughing:

link her to a few sites ... there are some STUNNING nappies out there .. STUNNING ..
if not for the environment .. sheesh .. do it for the look ...

link her to the aldi nappies .. with the weird cartoon animals .. and then some stunning minky nappy on a cloth site :p ..

[oliviasmumma]

:iagree:totally agree...

[Jaspat24]

Hey Em,
sometimes its just not worth arguing about.... thats what I've found - some people just want to think what they want and arent open to listen to others.

Deb xx


if you're going to argue with her - while the environment is a fantastic reason to use cloth .. there are other ways to discuss options with her .. :laughing:

link her to a few sites ... there are some STUNNING nappies out there .. STUNNING ..
if not for the environment .. sheesh .. do it for the look ...

link her to the aldi nappies .. with the weird cartoon animals .. and then some stunning minky nappy on a cloth site :p ..

:iagree: Yeah so there's extra washing etc and increased water usage etc etc. But how gorgeous are they?!? I'm loving my DS in his little train bambooty nappy; even the doctor commented on how cute it was today! Like Deb says though some people just don't listen. When confronted by these ppl i just 'smile & nod'. I personally hate the look of the disposable nappy hanging down between the knees, just gross. Unless like mamallama you unfortunately encounter many leaks, for most of us MCN are just fab. You can also remind your friend that you're not asking her to do any of the work. I'm the only person i know IRL that uses MCN's.

[em1984]

thanks girls... I think I may have finally convinced her, BUT she recckons she is emailing some of the sources I provided to find out WHERE they got their info, basically checking its all legit haha weirdo. Obviously has too much time on her hands!
oh and veve dont you worry, I provided her with a link to the cushie tooshie website just to demonstrate the absoultely beautiful, spunky nappies out there. Thats actually how the whole converstaion started with me talking about my new addiction and how gorgeous they are! haha
I'm not too worried, she can think what she wants I give up, its just annoying when your povide fact and people STILL argue with you... And she was completely uninformed and uneducated on the whole thing but still sprouting off, that just annoys me. And she couldnt get her head around the fact that there are cloth nappies out there that aren't the traditional terry flats, that annoyed me too, she didnt even check out MCN's before giving me an ear bashing. Anyhoo, some people just cant get past their closed-mindedness (a word? haha dunno) which is sad for them, but no skin of my back! Thanks girls :D

[LeeJ]

thanks girls... I think I may have finally convinced her, BUT she recckons she is emailing some of the sources I provided to find out WHERE they got their info, basically checking its all legit haha weirdo. Obviously has too much time on her hands!
oh and veve dont you worry, I provided her with a link to the cushie tooshie website just to demonstrate the absoultely beautiful, spunky nappies out there. Thats actually how the whole converstaion started with me talking about my new addiction and how gorgeous they are! haha
I'm not too worried, she can think what she wants I give up, its just annoying when your povide fact and people STILL argue with you... And she was completely uninformed and uneducated on the whole thing but still sprouting off, that just annoys me. And she couldnt get her head around the fact that there are cloth nappies out there that aren't the traditional terry flats, that annoyed me too, she didnt even check out MCN's before giving me an ear bashing. Anyhoo, some people just cant get past their closed-mindedness (a word? haha dunno) which is sad for them, but no skin of my back! Thanks girls :D

:laughing: who has the time to research sources?? does your freind have kids?:laughing:

[em1984]

no....no she doesnt haha

[LeeJ]

ohhhh, so thats why she has time....:laughing: