Same sex marriage, agree or disagree?

[HollyHotLips]

I see the government is debating this so wondered what your thoughts are?

Personally I dont see why homosexual couples shouldnt be able to be married and have the same benefits as heterosexual couples.

[Beany]

Equality all the way :)

[crazymuma]

Sorry but I can't see any reason at all why gay people should have less rights then straight people!!

[Myztiks#1Fan]

i dont see why it should be an issue. we shouldnt be affected by how another one chooses to live whether they are straight or gay and if marriage is what they want, why cant they have it?

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Nope if I don't like it or wanna do it, why should anyone else? It's wrong on so many levels.

























Not. I agree.:D

[sam's mum]

I picked don't care either way. as in, if they want to get married, get married, if they don't, don't.

[studyingECS]

Agree, they should have equal rights!

[Queen]

Equal rights all the way, none of my beeswax!

[breechmumma]

I agree with same sex marriage. Sexuality is not a choice and no one can choose which sex they will fall for in the end. So why tell people that they can't do something that is so normal when it is socially acceptable for others. Gay people are as normal as straight people. It's just a different kind of normal. Shame on Australia. Come on!!

[Lillynix]

If I can marry the person I love, who just happens to be male, why can't a good friend of mine marry the person that she loves, who just happens to be a female?

Love is love, it knows no genders and all people should be able to experience the joys of a legally binding marriage and all the other legal rights that go alone with it.

Some may say 'it's just a piece of paper' but to many others it's more than that and no one should be denied that 'piece of paper' based solely on their genders.

[SammieSnail]

Disagree.

[bada]

Definitely agree and think there should be equality, also think it's a huge joke that centrelink/government will recognise a homosexual couple living in a committed relationship because it would cost the government more if they didn't recognise the relationship, but oh no they aren't allowed to get married :rolleyes:

[Whispers]

Equal rights all the way I say.


Definitely agree and think there should be equality, also think it's a huge joke that centrelink/government will recognise a homosexual couple living in a committed relationship because it would cost the government more if they didn't recognise the relationship, but oh no they aren't allowed to get married :rolleyes:
Thats so true, It's pathetic how they have changed the laws to suit them but still deny the right for a gay couple to become legaly married.

[Cudds]

:yes: I agree that same sex marriages should be legal.

[SassyMummy]

Of course they should be allowed to.

I don't see what's so wrong about two people loving each other - love is wonderful, and it doesn't matter if it's shared between a man and a woman, two men or two women. It's beautiful.

I can't understand the law - how can it be "wrong" to love and care for someone else?

Stupid.

[misskittyfantastico]

Of course I support same sex marriage.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I find it abhorrent that heterosexual (probably married) people get to make the rules up for gay people.

I don't see why I am automatically entitled to more rights simply because I happened to have fallen in love with a dude instead of another woman.

[~Temet Nosce~]

Agree muchly. Though really I wish that there would be less of a big deal about marriage between male, female or bloody hermaphrodite in general lol, cause I'm not really that big on marriage anyway, I don't want to get married but I get sick of the older generation tut tuting me because I am having ******* children :rolleyes:

[PeppaH]

I was so happy when I saw that centre link brought in same sex couples!! I thought it was a bout bloody time they did it. I felt (as a hetro) that we were the ones taken advantage of because we arent gay and get less money, were as two female/male lovers could claim twice as much. BS really. I accpet gay marriage.

[Veritas]

Definitely agree and think there should be equality, also think it's a huge joke that centrelink/government will recognise a homosexual couple living in a committed relationship because it would cost the government more if they didn't recognise the relationship, but oh no they aren't allowed to get married :rolleyes:

Indeed.... its a deadset copout that the same responsibilities do not come hand in hand with the same rights..... I know their have been significant advancements, particularly in parenting rights, but strangely enough they all give financial advantage to the government.... like seriously how hard is it to change one more stupid law!!!! :hair:

I am not sure marriage is really for me, but I think I should definitely be able to choose when that day comes if I want to, and for me it is just as likely that I would choose to share my life with a woman as I would a man....

[~Bec~]

It's ridiculous to think that in this day and age marriage is only allowed where the couple have different genitalia. Much as we like to think we are so progressive and so much better off this is a great example of an outdated law based on someone's interpretation of Christianity.

There is absolutely no logic to not allowing any person to marry who they chose, providing each party are making the choice out of free will (ie, not forced).

[blessedmummy]

:no: disagree with it

[Mathermy]

It's ridiculous to think that in this day and age marriage is only allowed where the couple have different genitalia. Much as we like to think we are so progressive and so much better off this is a great example of an outdated law based on someone's interpretation of Christianity.

There is absolutely no logic to not allowing any person to marry who they chose, providing each party are making the choice out of free will (ie, not forced).

Agree! :)

If you don't agree with same sex marriage-don't get married to someone of the same sex! See? problem fixed! It's just that simple :D

[mother of six]

Strongly dissagree. My mother is gay, i love her dearly. She has lived with her partner for almost 7yrs. It's her choice how she choices to live although as a christian it goes against everything I beleive in.

[tyler's mum]

I dont have any problem with it

[faroutbrusselsprout]

:iagree: Equal rights all the way.




To those people who disagree, would you be so kind as to give reasoning behind your answer.
To most of us commenting on this post it's black and white that we all should be equal regardless whether gay/straight etc.
I'd really like to hear your reasons as to why gay people shouldnt be allowed to be married...
I am genuinely interested.

[faroutbrusselsprout]

Strongly dissagree. My mother is gay, i love her dearly. She has lived with her partner for almost 7yrs. It's her choice how she choices to live although as a christian it goes against everything I beleive in.

Would you mind elaborating?

[mother of six]

As a christian I beleive in the bible an homosexuality is consider immoral & unnaceptable. Apart from my own personal beliefs I am currently undertaking a Bachelor Degree in community developmentn which it has really re-inforced how unhealthy gay relationships are on a whole.
My younger sister who is living with my mother is very confused with her own sexuallity as this is all she knows.


Gay marriage are bad for children. According to a recent article in child trends, "Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents ." While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents. Research (http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/counseling.html) has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3718206&dopt=Abstract) more often.
Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/869?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1077133347863_11926&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=10&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&journalcode=pediatrics) among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is "chic" in certain elite social sectors.
Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not "fulfilling" to them.
3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble (http://www.publictheology.org/pt_ChristianMarriage.htm) maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.

[Mathermy]

As a christian I beleive in the bible an homosexuality is consider immoral & unnaceptable. Apart from my own personal beliefs I am currently undertaking a Bachelor Degree in community developmentn which it has really re-inforced how unhealthy gay relationships are on a whole.
My younger sister who is living with my mother is very confused with her own sexuallity as this is all she knows.


Gay marriage are bad for children. According to a recent article in child trends, "Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents ." While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents. Research (http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/counseling.html) has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3718206&dopt=Abstract) more often.
Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/869?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1077133347863_11926&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=10&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&journalcode=pediatrics) among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is "chic" in certain elite social sectors.
Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not "fulfilling" to them.
3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble (http://www.publictheology.org/pt_ChristianMarriage.htm) maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.

Do you have a reference for that? It doesn't sound like an academic source, is it?

[Leisa21]

Strongly agree with it. I'm a Catholic and a practising one at that. My religion teaches me to love, respect and not judge others and in my opinion that includes same sex couples. Above all else treat others how you want to be treated and don't have any other Gods before you. Those are the two most important things I believe a Christian should practice as does most of the Catholic priests and Catholics you'll talk too. Most Catholic priests don't have a problem with same sex couples.

[faroutbrusselsprout]

As a christian I beleive in the bible an homosexuality is consider immoral & unnaceptable. Apart from my own personal beliefs I am currently undertaking a Bachelor Degree in community developmentn which it has really re-inforced how unhealthy gay relationships are on a whole.
My younger sister who is living with my mother is very confused with her own sexuallity as this is all she knows.


Gay marriage are bad for children. According to a recent article in child trends, "Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents ." While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents. Research (http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/counseling.html) has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3718206&dopt=Abstract) more often.
Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/869?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1077133347863_11926&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=10&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&journalcode=pediatrics) among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is "chic" in certain elite social sectors.
Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not "fulfilling" to them.
3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble (http://www.publictheology.org/pt_ChristianMarriage.htm) maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.


I am not going to enter into a debate or let emotions get the better of me.
Having a gay sister who is a mummy to triplets with her partner I obviously feel very strongly about this issue.
So all I will say is:
Thank you.
I appreciate you answering sincerely and honestly.

[Looshkin]

:crying: ...:gloomy:
Yes, I think everyone should be afforded equal rights, regardless of which race, gender or sexual preference you are born with..

I particularly object to the indoctrinated reasoning as it displays both prejudice and ignorant condemnation which other than being hypocritical in the extreme to scripture, it is directly oppositional of the treating of everyone equally and with grace and love.

Also, to me it is illogical reasoning against a *law* taking into consideration the removal of church from state for everything else......

[SammieSnail]

I don't really want to justify myself for fear of upsetting someone, but I didn't want to just vote and lurk IYKWIM.

I do not think gay people should be any less equal in legal rights in regards to assets, super, government support etc. but that does not mean same-sex marriage is something I agree with.

[misskittyfantastico]

Big, huge reason why I am no longer catholic. Or religious at all. I believe in equal rights.
I have to add, that I know some bloody fantastic priests, nuns and brothers, that have left the order, or are still catholicalling. I love them, because they are good humans. Insightful, wise etc. Where I live? If I went to mass - and I did go, it's "The sanctity of marriage being undermined by those who are not faithful" "Women, killing their babies in the womb". *shakes head*.

[Mathermy]

Ok, not wanting to be smarty farty pants :o but given the pretty controversial implications of the above article I thought it best to seek out the source.

Firstly, it's from Christianity Today magazine

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/februaryweb-only/2-16-41.0.html?start=1

Which is fine, again just important to know what bias may be behind the information presented to you.

Secondly I found the above article difficult to find because the brief reference to "Child Trends" a non profit, non partisan research centre made me think that the article was from Child Trends itself, which didn't sound right.


http://www.childtrends.org/index.cfm Great website BTW :thumbsup:


For the record after doing a quick search of the actual "child Trends" publications over the past few years there is no specific studies that I can see on gay marriage itself, nor the implications of. So, unfortunately at best the quotes used in the CT article are a little out of context.

Anyway hope this doesn't annoy anybody, I was just interested in knowing the source because it was pretty "heavy" stuff.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Do you have a reference for that? It doesn't sound like an academic source, is it?

According to my googling it came from "Christocentric" (http://blog.christocentric.com/2008/10/13/the-negative-effects-of-same-sex-marriages/) - not really what I would deem to be an unbiased and academically sound site.

[Grizabella]

:crying: ...:gloomy:
Yes, I think everyone should be afforded equal rights, regardless of which race, gender or sexual preference you are born with..

I particularly object to the indoctrinated reasoning as it displays both prejudice and ignorant condemnation which other than being hypocritical in the extreme to scripture, it is directly oppositional of the treating of everyone equally and with grace and love.

Also, to me it is illogical reasoning against a *law* taking into consideration the removal of church from state for everything else......

Took the words right outta my mouth Z. Saved a helluva lot of typing too! Cheers! :p

[Leisa21]

Big, huge reason why I am no longer catholic. Or religious at all. I believe in equal rights.
I'm Catholic and I believe in equal rights. Sometimes I hate being part of a religion that is so out dated but I take it for what it is. Mans interpretation of Gods words. Man is flawed and makes mistakes so I believe as long as I love (and respect others and advocate human rights (same sex marriage included). Not all Catholics are the same:D There's hope man:)

[Opinionated]

Had my ex girlfriend shared my life goals, I would have entered into a committed relationship with her. She didn't .

I met and married my dh. Nothing to do with his gender, it is about our shared goals, focus and ideals.

I totally support marriage, whoever you may love.

[Mathermy]

According to my googling it came from "Christocentric" (http://blog.christocentric.com/2008/10/13/the-negative-effects-of-same-sex-marriages/) - not really what I would deem to be an unbiased and academically sound site.

we googled simultaneously! Must be true love!:valentine:

I found it in full (the part above was but a brief snapshot) at "Christianity Today" magazine (online).

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Gay marriage are bad for children. According to a recent article in child trends, "Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents ." .
This link won't open. In the studies I read what mattered most was a committed parent.


While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents..

Some straight people use anonymous sperm donars. Single straight women also use anonymous sperm donars.:confused:




Research (http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/counseling.html) has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3718206&dopt=Abstract) more often.
.

I cannot find where it says they are disatisfied and suffer greater rates of molestation?

I believe some homosexuals may be disatisfied because they are discriminated against and people make false claims about them being more likely to molest children.


Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/869?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1077133347863_11926&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=10&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&journalcode=pediatrics) among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is "chic" in certain elite social sectors..
Again high rates of suicide is most likely due to factors stemming from discrimination and not being accepted by their own families etc. Must be heart breaking.


Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not "fulfilling" to them. .
:confused: Many people marry and have no children. Many people marry, have children and then divorce. I am unsure what this has to do with gay marriage.


3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble (http://www.publictheology.org/pt_ChristianMarriage.htm) maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.
The effects above are non existant, and they look to be copied and pasted from a web site. Could you please provide a link? As many of the links provided do not work. Thank you.

I don't see any proof that gay marriage is any more unstable then straight marriage.

[misskittyfantastico]

I'm Catholic and I believe in equal rights. Sometimes I hate being part of a religion that is so out dated but I take it for what it is. Mans interpretation of Gods words. Man is flawed and makes mistakes so I believe as long as I love (and respect others and advocate human rights (same sex marriage included). Not all Catholics are the same:D There's hope man:)

Not for me.:) It was a path of much grief and resistance, but one I stand by.

[Shananaaah]

I just don't see how two loving adults in a stable, functioning, healthy, respectful relationship should be denied equal rights in every way.

Some partnerships (whether married or defacto) will break down - they always have and they always will. Being in a hetero relationship doesn't automatically afford you some kind of immunity from falling out of love and needing to NOT be with your partner.

If my kids are gay, I only hope they have every opportunity to be equal in every way when it's their time to settle down with their partners. (Just as I hope and wish my daughter will have compared to my son IYKWIM).

[Leisa21]

Don't worry TR I wasn't trying to recruit you. The last thing I need is more Catholics taking up my pew at church :p Damn Catholic families and their 100 children, can never get me a good spot.

[Chunkydunks]

They should be able to marry like any other couple.

Got to love the hypocrisy of religion. It teaches love and acceptance but then teaches that certain people are immoral or unacceptable because of their sexual preference :rolleyes:

[Mathermy]

This link won't open. In the studies I read what mattered most was a committed parent.


Some straight people use anonymous sperm donars. Single straight women also use anonymous sperm donars.:confused:



I cannot find where it says they are disatisfied and suffer greater rates of molestation?

I believe some homosexuals may be disatisfied because they are discriminated against and people make false claims about them being more likely to molest children.

Again high rates of suicide is most likely due to factors stemming from discrimination and not being accepted by their own families etc. Must be heart breaking.

:confused: Many people marry and have no children. Many people marry, have children and then divorce. I am unsure what this has to do with gay marriage.

The effects above are non existant, and they look to be copied and pasted from a web site. Could you please provide a link? As many of the links provided do not work. Thank you.

I don't see any proof that gay marriage is any more unstable then straight marriage.

SSP, I provided the link a few pages back, it's a brief snippet of an article in "Christianity Today" if you were interested in reading it in full :) Not to be confused with "Child Trends" :no:

[Pax]

I dont see the point in it!

sometimes i dont see the point in marriage at all! :rolleyes:

but definately NOT for homosexuals..

by homosexuals being given the sanctity of marriage it would obliterate what i hold sacred within my own.

[HugsBunny]

Equality all the way :)

:iagree:

Can I just say a big :thumbsup: to those that have posted saying they disagree - I don't at all agree with you and probably could never agree with you even if you DID explain your reasons but good on you for being honest!

A big thumbs up to everyone else too - it's so nice to see a potentially inflammatory thread be conducted in such a respectful manner :D

[misskittyfantastico]

Don't worry TR I wasn't trying to recruit you. The last thing I need is more Catholics taking up my pew at church :p Damn Catholic families and their 100 children, can never get me a good spot.

I was baptised, as was my husband, we did all of our sacraments as children. I've only just recently been able to type catholic, with a little c. I'm so glad you're in a place of spiritual fullfillment. Really:hugs:

[Grizabella]

but definately[sic] NOT for homosexuals..

by homosexuals being given the sanctity of marriage it would obliterate what i hold sacred within my own.

You cannot be serious? Surely the sanctity of marriage is based on love, respect and commitment? How is this different for homosexual couples???

[Mathermy]

I dont see the point in it!

sometimes i dont see the point in marriage at all! :rolleyes:

but definately NOT for homosexuals..

by homosexuals being given the sanctity of marriage it would obliterate what i hold sacred within my own.

I don't understand Morri, surely the part you hold sacred isn't the "between a man and woman part"? Or do you mean sacred as in a biblical sense?

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

SSP, I provided the link a few pages back, it's a brief snippet of an article in "Christianity Today" if you were interested in reading it in full :) Not to be confused with "Child Trends" :no:
Yeah I saw that just after I posted:banghead: I didn't want to use my hand eye coordination/ google skills.

So angry that my polite debating went to waste.:p;)

[mother of six]

I wish I could sit there and explain equal rights to my sister who knows first hand the effects of living with gay parents.

[HugsBunny]

Surely the sanctity of marriage is based on love, respect and commitment? How is this different for homosexual couples???

This is what I'm wondering too....... I've heard it said before that heterosexual people feel that if homosexuals were allowed to marry, it would diminish what their marriage meant. I really don't understand how though :confused:

[Mathermy]

Yeah I saw that just after I postedI didn't want to use my hand eye coordination/ google skills.

So angry that my polite debating went to waste.

I was just bout to pop into bed and then I saw "Child Trends" and I thought that doesn't sound like something they would publish!:confused::detective: So I couldn't resist a googleathon till I found the proper source :o

I wish I wasn't so pedantic, i would get much more sleep :laughing:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I wish I could sit there and explain equal rights to my sister who knows first hand the effects of living with gay parents.

I'm geniunely confused by what you mean?

[Grizabella]

It is sad that your sister has been ill effected by her own experiences in this situation. However the same can be sad of all familial situations. I know of people badly effected by their life experiences in a single as well as a nuclear hetro family. You can't base everything on one person's outcomes.

[Leisa21]

I was baptised, as was my husband, we did all of our sacraments as children. I've only just recently been able to type catholic, with a little c. I'm so glad you're in a place of spiritual fullfillment. Really:hugs:
I was baptised a couple of years ago and often write Catholic with a little c LOL. I think becoming catholic later in life has made me more relaxed about it. I don't have the hang ups that my hubby does. I eat before mass, I curse, I question my religion and I take it for what it is. I don't know maybe I'm a bad Catholic but I just enjoy the community I have a church and enjoy that I can go to any Catholic Church and it's same same. I believe in God the rest of it isn't as important IMO. If a religion tells me something is bad and I don't agree well too bad :p. Sorry you don't really care lol I'm a rambler when I'm sleepy... thanks for the hugs, I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was trying to bring you over to the dark side. I just hate when people say all Catholics are bad, I try not to be, I swear:o

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I was just bout to pop into bed and then I saw "Child Trends" and I thought that doesn't sound like something they would publish!:confused::detective: So I couldn't resist a googleathon till I found the proper source :o

I wish I wasn't so pedantic, i would get much more sleep :laughing:

:laughing: May the google force be with you, whenever an unjust link appears.

[Mathermy]

I wish I could sit there and explain equal rights to my sister who knows first hand the effects of living with gay parents.

With respect, one person's experience isn't necessarily indicative of the norm, or a prediction that could be applied to other people. I had an "interesting" childhood with two heterosexual parents but I do not assume that my experience is shared by all other children of heterosexual parents, if you know what I mean?

[Mathermy]

:laughing: May the google force be with you, whenever an unjust link appears.

I know right? I'm a superhero! :p

[CrankyAndTired]

As a christian I beleive in the bible an homosexuality is consider immoral & unnaceptable. Apart from my own personal beliefs I am currently undertaking a Bachelor Degree in community developmentn which it has really re-inforced how unhealthy gay relationships are on a whole.
My younger sister who is living with my mother is very confused with her own sexuallity as this is all she knows.


Gay marriage are bad for children. According to a recent article in child trends, "Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents ." While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents. Research (http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/counseling.html) has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3718206&dopt=Abstract) more often.
Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/869?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1077133347863_11926&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=10&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&journalcode=pediatrics) among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is "chic" in certain elite social sectors.
Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not "fulfilling" to them.
3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble (http://www.publictheology.org/pt_ChristianMarriage.htm) maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.

Good on you for being honest about what you believe! :hugs: Its not always easy to say you really believe when you know your opinion will be in the minority.. I appreciate diverse perspectives :yelclap:

[Opinionated]

I wish I could sit there and explain equal rights to my sister who knows first hand the effects of living with gay parents.

I don't get what you mean. Obviously your sister is raised by gay parents. Do you think she would be worse off if they were more legally committed to each other? :confused:

[Opinionated]

I dont see the point in it!

sometimes i dont see the point in marriage at all! :rolleyes:

but definately NOT for homosexuals..

by homosexuals being given the sanctity of marriage it would obliterate what i hold sacred within my own.

The point? The same as the point of your marriage, my marriage and every other hetero coupe. A legally binding union. Feel free to add in the God factor if you like too.

[jag5000]

support it fully

I honestly (this is in no way snarky) cannot see how anybody doesn't support it!

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

support it fully

I honestly (this is in no way snarky) cannot see how anybody doesn't support it!
Oh you snarky thing you.;)

[Leisa21]

support it fully

I honestly (this is in no way snarky) cannot see how anybody doesn't support it!
SNARK:p:p

[Pax]

You cannot be serious? Surely the sanctity of marriage is based on love, respect and commitment? How is this different for homosexual couples???

I see homosexuality a sexual choice NOT as a family. Marriage is about family, the creation and continuation of one. I dont support homosexuals utilising alternative contraception.. I think homosexuals should accept their same sex situation which naturally says NO children for you..




I don't understand Morri, surely the part you hold sacred isn't the "between a man and woman part"? Or do you mean sacred as in a biblical sense?

biblical.. I guess!

marriage is biblical. Marriage is christian/muslim/jewish aka RELIGIOUS

if you said to me they were holding a similar thing to a naming ceremony as apposed to a baptism I wouldnt care.

dont take a religious sacrament and warp it to address the wants of a sect of people that are not adhering to it.

[Pax]

Good on you for being honest about what you believe! :hugs: Its not always easy to say you really believe when you know your opinion will be in the minority.. I appreciate diverse perspectives :yelclap:
:D:hugs:

[jag5000]

yeah, that's me..

jag aka Mrs. Snarky McSnarkleton

:p

but seriously.. I hate to admit it, but I truly can't get my head around why anyone WOULD oppose same sex marriage!

btw, have I missed an event or announcement? haven't gotten to read a lot of news for the past few days

[Mathermy]

biblical.. I guess!

marriage is biblical. Marriage is christian/muslim/jewish aka RELIGIOUS

if you said to me they were holding a similar thing to a naming ceremony as apposed to a baptism I wouldnt care.

dont take a religious sacrament and warp it to address the wants of a sect of people that are not adhering to it.

I guess i can relate to your logic then Morri, at least moreso than before. But given what you just shared, how do you feel about the many heterosexual couples that are married by a civil celebrant every day outside the church and with no reference to anything remotely biblical?

It is not just the religious who get married, do you feel like all of the other non-religious marriages devalue yours also?

[Grizabella]

Well I am not religious so I suppose if I were to get married that too would be "warped" seeing as marriage in your mind is a purely religious institution. I see marriage as a public avowal of commitment and love, not a right of passage before having kids.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I see homosexuality a sexual choice NOT as a family. Marriage is about family, the creation and continuation of one. I dont support homosexuals utilising alternative contraception.. I think homosexuals should accept their same sex situation which naturally says NO children for you...

Could you choose to be homosexual then? If it is a choice we could all just choose it tomorrow, and I just don't believe that.

Many marriages don't have children, many people now plan to never have them and they still get married.

If i don't use fertility drungs I may never be able to have more children naturaly. does this mean I shouldn't have any more children?




biblical.. I guess!

marriage is biblical. Marriage is christian/muslim/jewish aka RELIGIOUS

if you said to me they were holding a similar thing to a naming ceremony as apposed to a baptism I wouldnt care.

dont take a religious sacrament and warp it to address the wants of a sect of people that are not adhering to it.
So are you cool with legal gay marraige just as long as it's not religious?

[sunnyflower]

Oh dear i hope no one gets snarky with me but i don't agree with same sex marriage either.

I follow the bible and the bible clearly states what God thinks about same sex unions.

It states in Leviticus several times that "you must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman.That is a hated sin."

It really is quite clear that he doesn't think this lifestyle is the best for us.:)

[Pax]

I guess i can relate to your logic then Morri, at least moreso than before. But given what you just shared, how do you feel about the many heterosexual couples that are married by a civil celebrant every day outside the church and with no reference to anything remotely biblical?

It is not just the religious who get married, do you feel like all of the other non-religious marriages devalue yours also?


I have no problem with civil marriages, my second marriage is that! why? because it was not recognised by the catholic church. I am currently STILL married to my first husband and living in an adulterous relationship according to them. because that is how they see it.. end of story.

I am bitter and twisted about that a fair bit.

BUT that is their rules and i will respect that and continue on.

I dont expect them to change to suit me!

hence why i dont think homosexuals should force their life on the established religous either!

get their own religion if need be..

dont expect to screw what exists..

[Pax]

Oh dear i hope no one gets snarky with me but i don't agree with same sex marriage either.

I follow the bible and the bible clearly states what God thinks about same sex unions.

It states in Leviticus several times that "you must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman.That is a hated sin."

It really is quite clear that he doesn't think this lifestyle is the best for us.:)


yeah I get that too..

yanno.. i find male homosexuality offensive but i dont get as offended by female homosexuality and I have no idea why...
:o:o:o

I just put it down to my brainwashing..

its so hard to sort out what I believe based on what i have been brainwashed with and what my soul actually feels.

[Grizabella]

But marriage is no longer a purely religious institution. So why then is a law being influenced by religion?

Hypothetically if the bible stated that interracial relationships were a sin, would you be of the same stance? And should the law take that into regard too and therefore be illegal?

[Mathermy]

Oh dear i hope no one gets snarky with me but i don't agree with same sex marriage either.

I follow the bible and the bible clearly states what God thinks about same sex unions.

It states in Leviticus several times that "you must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman.That is a hated sin."

It really is quite clear that he doesn't think this lifestyle is the best for us.:)

snarky mc snarkypoo.

JJ :):hugs:

[Pax]

snarky mc snarkypoo.

JJ :):hugs:


(slaps Malol)

its not snarky its a fact! well biblical fact!

therefore a faith and that is pretty serious stuff.

[Pax]

But marriage is no longer a purely religious institution. So why then is a law being influenced by religion?

Hypothetically if the bible stated that interracial relationships were a sin, would you be of the same stance? And should the law take that into regard too and therefore be illegal?

law is based in christianity (man i have argued that on here before)..

that fact you can say it is not a religious institution is an insult to what religion has given society.

if society wants to pervert religion.. then change the name of the ceremony

no wonder the angels at Sodom and Gomorrah got peeved:rolleyes:

[Mathermy]

I have no problem with civil marriages, my second marriage is that! why? because it was not recognised by the catholic church. I am currently STILL married to my first husband and living in an adulterous relationship according to them. because that is how they see it.. end of story.

I am bitter and twisted about that a fair bit.

BUT that is their rules and i will respect that and continue on.

I dont expect them to change to suit me!

hence why i dont think homosexuals should force their life on the established religous either!

get their own religion if need be..

dont expect to screw what exists..

Makes sense, I don't agree, but it makes sense why you feel the way you do :yes:

yeah I get that too..

yanno.. i find male homosexuality offensive but i dont get as offended by female homosexuality and I have no idea why...
:o:o:o

I just put it down to my brainwashing..

its so hard to sort out what I believe based on what i have been brainwashed with and what my soul actually feels.

The fact that you are even aware of the difference makes me feel like we are not necessarily as far apart as we may think.

and yanno, I kinda like you :p

specially when you're not being roooooood!:D

[sunnyflower]

I personally do not find it offensive and i do not think i am better as a straight person at all,we are all equal in Gods sight.

But

i have to recognise what God has written in the bible about how he wants us to live.

I have had and continue to have gay friends and they know how i feel about their lifestyle.It still doesn;t change how i feel about them as a person:)

God loves everyone!!:)

[Pax]

gnite ppl.. i am sure this thread will see me tomorrow.

I LOVE this stuff.

catch you later.. dont close it without me :D

[Mathermy]

(slaps Malol)

its not snarky its a fact! well biblical fact!

therefore a faith and that is pretty serious stuff.

that was a joke bumhead!:p

I was throwing her some play snark, nothing to do with what she said about the bible :)

[sunnyflower]

snarky snark snark:D:)

[Shananaaah]

marriage is biblical. Marriage is christian/muslim/jewish aka RELIGIOUS

if you said to me they were holding a similar thing to a naming ceremony as apposed to a baptism I wouldnt care.

dont take a religious sacrament and warp it to address the wants of a sect of people that are not adhering to it.

While I can see where you are coming from here, in my eyes marriage isn't necessarily biblical because it was around before the Bible, or any "mainstream" religions AFAIK.
But then I also understand that (in particular) Christianity believes Adam and Eve were the first humans, and God created them to be married.

I just think when you have cultures all over the world who aren't influenced by Christianity/Islam/Judaism etc and yet they still have marriage (in their own practise), to me that clearly states that marriage is not solely Biblical.

But I get where you're coming from!

[Mathermy]

Night wimmens :D

Just wanted to say thanks for noone getting snooty,snarky etc

It's nice to chat even disagree, without the BS

:goodvibes:

[sandy cheeks]

I have a cuz in the US who got married (same sex) but divorced a year later and a aunty who has known/been with her partner for over 30 years and they wouldn't get married even if they could.
I think same sex couples should have the same rights like super, kids ect like a married couple or defacto partners but marriage to me is more a religious type thing and most religions deep down dont accecpt homosexuality so IMO why would they want to do something that doesn't accecpt you. I hope this kinda makes sence.

[Foxy]

I voted agree because if same sex couples are crazy enough to want to get married - good luck to 'em!

I really think in recent times marriage has moved away from being only a religious commitment to more of a personal one. I certainly respect the marriage of people who have had a civil union as much as those who have had a religious one. I don't think one is more "valid" or "real" than the other.

[nothanksbye]

I agree.

I think its very sad that in this day and age we still have dont have equality.

[Veritas]

I see homosexuality a sexual choice NOT as a family. Marriage is about family, the creation and continuation of one. I dont support homosexuals utilising alternative contraception.. I think homosexuals should accept their same sex situation which naturally says NO children for you..

So, considering I had a child with a man, conceived in the good old fashioned way as a couple.... and he left.... so by your standards, regardless of attraction I should shy away from any potential same sex relationships????

Not being argumentative, just wondering what you think....

[veve]

Morrigan .. I dont usually step into these 'discussions' but since you stated that you think homosexuality is a CHOICE .. it begs the question as to how many homosexuals you know irl?

I know several - and after many deep and meaningful discussions with them - its by no means a choice - and its often something that they are aware of - on some level from childhood or early teens, in fact many fight to HIDE the fact that they are experiencing these feelings, they TRY to be 'normal' - but it just never feels right, in fact to 'act' hetrosexual feels very very wrong.

Personally I"m still disgusted that society thinks its ok for people to be discriminated against in this way.
Black people couldn't vote (because back then .. they were also seen to be of lesser value to society) ... heck WOMEN couldn't vote.
People of different races couldn't date - and to *gasp* marry .. well that was just seen as so very very wrong...

if there was a law stating that people who had a disability couldn't marry, wouldn't the bulk of society be up in arms ... but because there is a difference in sexual choice ... they dont count??

Getting married doesn't have to involve 'the church' - it can be in a wonderful garden, surrounded by the people you adore, and be conducted by a celebrant..

As for the bible references - I struggle to find footing in this area ... because I believe that homosexuality, true homosexuality (not experiementation etc) - is NOT a choice .. then .. god made those people this way .. so how can you then accuse them of all this sin? (jmo)

As for 'biblical FACTS' .. I find most of the bible is open for interpretation - indeed it has been translated hundreds of times- at bible group 12 people can sit at a table discussing ONE passage of the bible, and decide it means 6 + different things..

sigh.

[JackOfAllTradesMummy]

i believe they should be anble to express their love like hetro couples.

why is i that centrelink, a governmemt organisation recognises same sex couples but other gov departments dont?

what makes their relationships worth less then a hetro couple to deny them the right to make it a legally binding commitment...

[Veritas]

Another interesting fact that challenges the notion of the family argument, is that legally birth certificates can now contain the names of same sex parents as the two legal parents when a child is conceived via donation (ie. not through heterosexual sex).... at least in NSW, I am not sure as to other states.....

How does that sit with those that oppose gay marriage???

I honestly don't see how it is that big a step to legalise marriage if a same sex couple can be legally recognised as the parents of a child conceived within their relationship....

It all frustrates me a little..... actually a lot!!!!!!

[Looshkin]

Yes that frustrates me Veritas..

How can legally a parent be recognised.. centrelink recognise relationships to ensure no one is overpaid yet our government won't afford the security by legally recognising a marriage?

In a legal sense, which ultimately is what seems to be up for discussion here, as the state doesn't recognise same sex relationships but would write the legislation to change that.. I don't see anyone asking for the church to recognise anything.

Then why, does a church based reasoning come into a state based proposal?

I mean ultimately other than the love bit and social recognition, it is a legally binding contract to protect the rights of individuals..

If a partner were to die, is a man or woman from a same sex relationship any less deserving of rights? Say a woman has children falls in love with a woman spends 10 years living with that woman as her wife, if she died suddenly owning the house without a will, it's horrific a woman would be thrown out of her family home because they couldn't get married.

Does that mean she wouldn't be able to be paid the life insurance or receive her partners super?
Any other legal binding rights only available through legally recognised marriage?



The latest gay marriage public opinion survey (http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/news/20090616.htm) confirms earlier research (http://andrewnorton.info/2008/05/gay-marriage-delayed-but-not-defeated/) that this issue is now on a near-inevitable path. There are large majorities of younger voters in favour: 74% of 16-24 year olds, 71% of 25-34 year olds, and 68% of 35-49 year olds. Only the 50+ age group are opposed, by a small plurality: 49% against to 45% in favour.I found that interesting.:thumbsup:

And considering how many Catholics re-marry, for example.. they are apparently living in sin or going against the church as such unless they get an actual "church" anullment from the RCC as well as a government divorce (as far as I'm aware -correct me if I'm wrong), yet no one thinks any less of them for breaching the sanctity of their religious definition of marriage .. you know?
befuzzles me..

[Pippi Longstocking]

It states in Leviticus several times that "you must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman.That is a hated sin."

It really is quite clear that he doesn't think this lifestyle is the best for us.:)

Could I ask if you take all of the Bible literally and as fact? :)

Morrigan, I am married, legally. I can tell you now, your god wasn't invited to my ceremony. :no: It had nothing to do with him and everything to do with my husband and I, our love for each other and our friends and family sharing that love with us for an amazing day of celebration. :goodvibes:

It was a beautiful day, but I do feel as though maybe I should have boycotted until my same sex friends have the same right to celebrate their love for each other that I am automatically privileged to.

As a PP mentioned, marriage has been around longer than christianity. I disagree with you that society is trying to warp christianity - on the contrary, I believe that christianity has attempted to warp and change society since the very beginning of religion.

Finally, saying that homosexuality is a choice implies sexual deviance. This isn't the case at all. Human sexuality can be placed anywhere on a fluid spectrum and in the same way that you or I have no choice about being placed further towards the heterosexual end of that spectrum, gay people just -are- closer to the other end.

:flowerz:They're here, they're queer. Get used to it!:flowerz:

[delirium]

Yes I do believe that should be able to marry, and I'm really disappointed the labour government chose to placate the minority rather than stand up with the majority of people that say they should be able to marry.

IMO it is certainly not a choice. Why would people choose to be alieniated, lose their families, be persecuted and mocked? In my studies I remember reading a few papers that say sexual orientation is set the instant the sperm hits the egg, just like gender, eye colour etc.

[rainbow road]

Strongly in favour of same sex marriage!!!! For all the reasons everyone else in favour have stated!

[jag5000]

As a PP mentioned, marriage has been around longer than christianity. I disagree with you that society is trying to warp christianity - on the contrary, I believe that christianity has attempted to warp and change society since the very beginning of religion.
:flowerz:They're here, they're queer. Get used to it!:flowerz:

great post :yelclap:

'god' isn't anywhere in my marriage either.. and just like miss andry there very nearly wasn't one as it took me a while to reconcile myself with the fact I could marry while my same sex couple friends could not.


It is seeming that most objections are religion based. I am interested to hear from anyone that had a personal opposition to same sex marriage. As I have said before I cannot fathom why you would be opposed, and I would truly love to try and understand.

[Phyllis Stein]

I strongly support equality in marriage laws.



why is i that centrelink, a governmemt organisation recognises same sex couples but other gov departments dont?


Hmm, could it be that Centrelink policies previously gave same sex couples an advantage, and of course we couldn't have that! Whereas we're quite happy for them to be disadvantaged. [/cynical]

[Lillynix]

Yep, there was no "god" in our marriage either. It was all about us and our love. Infact, if there had to be "god" at our wedding, then we wouldn't have gotten married, but since we had the CHOICE to have a lovely civil ceremony, devoted totally to us and our love for one another, how on earth could one deny a same sex couple the same CHOICE based on 'marriage is about god' PFFFT utterly ridiculous!

And as for same sex couples shouldn't be allowed children, what the!? Just because a woman may happen to fall in love with another woman, doesn't mean her desires and urges to become a mother just disappear.

Just like if a man happens to fall in love with another man, it doesn't mean that his want and desire to be a father disappear either.

We are ALL entitled the privilege to have children and denying that privilege based sole on gender is just utter codswallop.

Are we, as loving caring humans, supposed to be able to flick a switch in our brains and our hearts so that we no longer want children just because we so happen to fall in love with someone of the same gender!?

GAH. So angry and upset right now that there are people out there who want to deny others the joy of children and the joy of legal commitment :mad:

[Rachael]

I don't really want to justify myself for fear of upsetting someone, but I didn't want to just vote and lurk IYKWIM.

I do not think gay people should be any less equal in legal rights in regards to assets, super, government support etc. but that does not mean same-sex marriage is something I agree with.

Like SammieSnail I did not want to vote and lurk.



I see homosexuality a sexual choice NOT as a family. Marriage is about family, the creation and continuation of one. I dont support homosexuals utilising alternative contraception.. I think homosexuals should accept their same sex situation which naturally says NO children for you..





biblical.. I guess!

marriage is biblical. Marriage is christian/muslim/jewish aka RELIGIOUS

if you said to me they were holding a similar thing to a naming ceremony as apposed to a baptism I wouldnt care.

dont take a religious sacrament and warp it to address the wants of a sect of people that are not adhering to it.


Oh dear i hope no one gets snarky with me but i don't agree with same sex marriage either.

I follow the bible and the bible clearly states what God thinks about same sex unions.

It states in Leviticus several times that "you must not have sexual relations with a man as you would a woman.That is a hated sin."

It really is quite clear that he doesn't think this lifestyle is the best for us.:)

I disagree for all the reasons above plus more but I don't want to offend people. I know people who are homo and I like them as people but I disagree with what they are. It's just not natural:confused:

But ultimately it is each individuals choice about how they live their life. If marriage for them is such a big deal then go on a holiday (honeymoon) and get married where it is legal.

[~Bec~]

But ultimately it is each individuals choice about how they live their life. If marriage for them is such a big deal then go on a holiday (honeymoon) and get married where it is legal.

Even if a couple were to go to a country where it was legal the marriage would not be recognised in Australia - ie they wouldn't' be considered married here and therefore offered the legal protection that marriage provides.

Having a wedding in another country also means they would most likely have to pay a huge sum of money for travel and accommodation, get married in a foreign place and most likely forgo having friends and family attend (given the costs). Hardly seems fair or just. :confused:

Same sex marriage will be recognised one day in Australia - it's just when it will be politically advantageous for the government at the time. So friggin :banghead: that government decisions are based on $$ and gaining political support, it's not about 'the right' thing.

[rainbow road]

Like SammieSnail I did not want to vote and lurk.






I disagree for all the reasons above plus more but I don't want to offend people. I know people who are homo and I like them as people but I disagree with what they are. It's just not natural:confused:

But ultimately it is each individuals choice about how they live their life. If marriage for them is such a big deal then go on a holiday (honeymoon) and get married where it is legal.

I hate it when people refer to people as "them" in a way that suggests they are totally a different species :(

I don't understand: is marriage a big deal to you, Rachael? Because if it is, then can you see how heartbreaking it is to other people to whom marriage is a big deal if they're not allowed to marry legally?

How do I feel about marriage being about god? god schmod. Sorry but it's true. If god is such an important part of a marriage then surely those marriages conducted by a civil celebrant without god like DragonFly, or my parents, should not be considered valid?

In fact this begs a spin off thread :laughing:

[Mathermy]

In fact this begs a spin off thread :laughing:

Oh, you're living life on the edge :devil::devil6:

[Rachael]

Sorry Forkie as I said I don't want to offend people. Not sure how you would refer to homosexual people or any group whether it be a majority or minority.
Of course they are the same species physically!! :)

Marriage is a big deal to me, but I feel that it is between a man and a woman. Blinker view I know but that is me.

As Becs999 said it will be legal one day when it is politically advantageous. Though what I saw on the late news last night Rudd has said it will not be him that changes it.

[rainbow road]

Sorry Forkie as I said I don't want to offend people. Not sure how you would refer to homosexual people or any group whether it be a majority or minority.
Of course they are the same species physically!! :)

Marriage is a big deal to me, but I feel that it is between a man and a woman. Blinker view I know but that is me.

As Becs999 said it will be legal one day when it is politically advantageous. Though what I saw on the late news last night Rudd has said it will not be him that changes it.
That's fine, you didn't offend, i am just trying to flesh it all out in my head and thinking out loud. :shakehands:

[Rachael]

That's fine, you didn't offend, i am just trying to flesh it all out in my head and thinking out loud. :shakehands:

:shakehands:

It is just one of those topics.

[Pippi Longstocking]

It's just not natural:confused:



I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to pick on you :shakehands: but could you expand on this a little? I believe that homosexuality/bisexuality is no more and no less natural than heterosexuality. All are part of a normal healthy human spectrum.

[tyler's mum]

If to people love each other then why should'nt they be able to get married :confused: I cant believe in the year 2009 people still look at this as being wrong i say grow up already:rolleyes:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Leviticus also tells us

19

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Do people against homosexuality and homosexual marriage believe this should be the law? 28 " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Any one got a tatoo?

'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

This ones really important because leviticus tells us to embrace refugees.
Leviticus 17:10
I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood."

So no eating rare meat. I hope hogs breath knows how evil it is.:eek:

Leviticus 11:


9 " 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you

Any one up for a seafood feast? I'm so hungry.:chef:

[Lillynix]

It's not natural!? Definied by who? This so called "god", the bible!? So we should ALL live our lives as dictated to us in the bible?

Homosexuality is just as normal, just as natural and just as valid as heterosexuality. Just because there is some book, called the bible and how it claims to be the word of "god" we should just disregard this fact because it seems that this "god" is some extreme homophobic?

Homophobia and the discrimination that is shown towards same sex couples in this Country (well...ANY country) is one thing I simply will not tolerate.

[rainbow road]

Anyway, isn't Leviticus in the Old Testament? I thought with Christianity they don't follow the OT, only the New Testament - or is a mix and match situation?

[Pippi Longstocking]

Leviticus also tells us

19

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Do people against homosexuality and homosexual marriage believe this should be the law? 28 " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Any one got a tatoo?

'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

This ones really important because leviticus tells us to embrace refugees.
Leviticus 17:10
I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. 12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood."

So no eating rare meat. I hope hogs breath knows how evil it is.:eek:

Leviticus 11:


9 " 'Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you

Any one up for a seafood feast? I'm so hungry.:chef:



Oi! You stole my response! :shame: I was leading up to all of the above. :devil::laughing:

[Mathermy]

Anyway, isn't Leviticus in the Old Testament? I thought with Christianity they don't follow the OT, only the New Testament - or is a mix and match situation?

In my experience with people I have known it has been a bit of mix and match, pick and choose. Circumcision is another interesting one.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Anyway, isn't Leviticus in the Old Testament? I thought with Christianity they don't follow the OT, only the New Testament - or is a mix and match situation?

Yeah it's old, and it seems to be used only when someone wants to make someone look evil:devil: for their choices.

When was the last time some fundy tried to bomb a seafood restaurant?:laughing:


Oi! You stole my response! :shame: I was leading up to all of the above. :devil::laughing:

Sorry I think that is in Leviticus too.

Those who use anothers intended forum responce shall be put to death in the fire.

Those who agreed shall be unclean for seven days.:yes:

[Pippi Longstocking]

Those who use anothers intended forum responce shall be put to death in the fire.

Those who agreed shall be unclean for seven days.:yes:

Sinner! Ye shall burn unto eternity in Boring Thread Forum Hell, where moderators verily edit thou everyeth posteth and infracteth thine @rseth!! :p

[mother of six]

"Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

Answer: The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law

[Oya]

For all the Christians who have said it goes against their religion/beliefs to agree with same sex marriage, is our God not a loving God? One who accepts each and everyone of us for who we are regardless of the things we have done? Is he not a compassionate God?

To use Christianity to mask your homophobia is ridiculous and offensive to our Lord.

What would Jesus do?

He would love, respect, not judge and treat them as equal.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

"Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

Answer: The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law

If that is your belief then why worry about what Leviticus says about homosexuality?:confused:

[mother of six]

If my daughter was a drug addict i would love her, not her lifestyle. My mother is gay I love my mother just do not agree with her lifestyle. I wasn't raised as a christian and had the same belief before i had faith.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Sinner! Ye shall burn unto eternity in Boring Thread Forum Hell, where moderators verily edit thou everyeth posteth and infracteth thine @rseth!! :p
:crying: Can't I ask for forgiveness?

[mother of six]

For all the Christians who have said it goes against their religion/beliefs to agree with same sex marriage, is our God not a loving God? One who accepts each and everyone of us for who we are regardless of the things we have done? Is he not a compassionate God?

To use Christianity to mask your homophobia is ridiculous and offensive to our Lord.

What would Jesus do?

He would love, respect, not judge and treat them as equal.

The true Christian does not condemn sodomy and 'same-sex marriage' because of fear or hate, but because his faith in God’s revelation requires him to do so."

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

If my daughter was a drug addict i would love her, not her lifestyle. My mother is gay I love my mother just do not agree with her lifestyle. I wasn't raised as a christian and had the same belief before i had faith.

:confused: Still isn't that picking which parts of the bible to follow and which you don't feel like, because the church says they are socialy acceptable now?

Do you feel the same about men who trim their facial hair?

The true Christian does not condemn sodomy and 'same-sex marriage' because of fear or hate, but because his faith in God’s revelation requires him to do so."

Leviticus tells us that women who have their period are unclean and should not be touched for seven days. Do you practice this as well? Gods revalation requires that any man who has contact with a woman in those seven days is also unclean. So I should not touch or hug my husband when I have my preiod.

[Oya]

The true Christian does not condemn sodomy and 'same-sex marriage' because of fear or hate, but because his faith in God’s revelation requires him to do so."

That's a load of BS.:no:

[A Party of Five]

Sadly, the argument against gay marraige ignorantly relies on the notion that marraige is a Biblical covenant. In fact, the instution of marraige evolved into being many millenia before Christianity came into being.

My point, in brief, is that marraige is a state of being; and institution of the heart and mind. No religion can rightfully claim ownership of the concept.

Strictly speaking, until that right is granted to gay people, we are not equal in society, no matter how far we've come to date.

[SassyMummy]

I think homosexuals should accept their same sex situation which naturally says NO children for you..

You could say the same for those in a heterosexual relationship who need assisted conception for whatever reason. Perhaps they should just accept that their situation means NO children?

Anyway, I'm not religious, but I do believe that while the Bible might say "so and so is wrong," it's not also adding, "So try and stop people from doing it, and judge them if they do it, and tell them that they're wrong." I think it's more, "Here is a set of guidelines on how to live your life. Live it that way."

I don't think that saying a man laying with another man means that you should wish others would stop doing it - more that you don't do it yourself.

I dunno, that probably only makes sense in my head...

[Mummaholic]

Strongly agree with it. I'm a Catholic and a practising one at that. My religion teaches me to love, respect and not judge others and in my opinion that includes same sex couples. Above all else treat others how you want to be treated and don't have any other Gods before you. Those are the two most important things I believe a Christian should practice as does most of the Catholic priests and Catholics you'll talk too. Most Catholic priests don't have a problem with same sex couples.

:iagree: I am also a Catholic, baptised as a baby. I question many things in life, parts of my religion I don't agree with included. In detail, there are some things I disagree with. On the whole, I believe and it is my choice to remain a Catholic. I am also a Feminist etc so there would naturally be some questioning going on ;)

There is something in Catholicism called 'informed conscience' like anything it could be considered a flawed concept but it is interesting nethertheless. Google away, be aware there are many biased sites citing this concept though!

I do believe myself that to be gay is not a sin. To have homosexual sexual relations is not a sin. I do not believe anything to do with homosexuality to be a sin. It is just to be a person like any other who likes the same sex instead of the opposite. In my mind, it would be un-Christian of me to judge (something that in my mind is unworthy of judgement).

I am reminded that the Bible was written by men, not God. And has been translated many times. My God is kind and caring. He would not hate gay people.


I dont see the point in it!

sometimes i dont see the point in marriage at all!

but definately NOT for homosexuals..

by homosexuals being given the sanctity of marriage it would obliterate what i hold sacred within my own.

I respectfully disagree. Gay people marrying has absolutely no effect on my marriage or marriage as a whole, IMO.


I was baptised a couple of years ago and often write Catholic with a little c LOL. I think becoming catholic later in life has made me more relaxed about it. I don't have the hang ups that my hubby does. I eat before mass, I curse, I question my religion and I take it for what it is. I don't know maybe I'm a bad Catholic but I just enjoy the community I have a church and enjoy that I can go to any Catholic Church and it's same same. I believe in God the rest of it isn't as important IMO. If a religion tells me something is bad and I don't agree well too bad :p. Sorry you don't really care lol I'm a rambler when I'm sleepy... thanks for the hugs, I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was trying to bring you over to the dark side. I just hate when people say all Catholics are bad, I try not to be, I swear

:D I eat before mass (not a rule any more), I *really* curse :eek: I agree with you, this does not make us bad Catholics, in fact if anything it makes us good, because we think about concepts instead of having blind faith.

[mother of six]

:confused: Still isn't that picking which parts of the bible to follow and which you don't feel like, because the church says they are socialy acceptable now?

Do you feel the same about men who trim their facial hair?


Leviticus tells us that women who have their period are unclean and should not be touched for seven days. Do you practice this as well? Gods revalation requires that any man who has contact with a woman in those seven days is also unclean. So I should not touch or hug my husband when I have my preiod.

Leviticus is not the only scripture against homosexuality, it's also stated in NT. Again the laws of the old testament do not apply to christians today

[Mathermy]

:iagree: I am also a Catholic, baptised as a baby. I question many things in life, parts of my religion I don't agree with included. In detail, there are some things I disagree with. On the whole, I believe and it is my choice to remain a Catholic. I am also a Feminist etc so there would naturally be some questioning going on ;)

There is something in Catholicism called 'informed conscience' like anything it could be considered a flawed concept but it is interesting nethertheless. Google away, be aware there are many biased sites citing this concept though!

I do believe myself that to be gay is not a sin. To have homosexual sexual relations is not a sin. I do not believe anything to do with homosexuality to be a sin. It is just to be a person like any other who likes the same sex instead of the opposite. In my mind, it would be un-Christian of me to judge (something that in my mind is unworthy of judgement).

I am reminded that the Bible was written by men, not God. And has been translated many times. My God is kind and caring. He would not hate gay people.



I respectfully disagree. Gay people marrying has absolutely no effect on my marriage or marriage as a whole, IMO.



:D

:bee: that is all.

[Mummaholic]

:bee: that is all.

:laughing: right back at ya :)

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Leviticus is not the only scripture against homosexuality, it's also stated in NT. Again the laws of the old testament do not apply to christians today
Well going by the new testiment, I have seen lots of claims about this, but none that states anything directly like leviticus does and that is why it (leviticus) is used so often by christians.

If there was a useful passage that would support their homophobia in the new testament then they would quote it often.

[samken]

It irritates me that people use the argument that marriage is something between a man and a woman when traditionally there was no such definition. Before the concept of a wedding people lived together and they said they were married. Turning a pagan ritual off celebration for two people's commitment to each other into some sort of religious/political sport is perverse.

I didn't want to get married unless the man I loved said it meant something to him. It did. So I did, but for me the day was a day of celebration of how much I loved him.

[CrankyAndTired]

If my daughter was a drug addict i would love her, not her lifestyle. My mother is gay I love my mother just do not agree with her lifestyle. I wasn't raised as a christian and had the same belief before i had faith.

I can understand where you're coming from, and applaud your honesty.:yelclap::yelclap:

[mother of six]

Well going by the new testiment, I have seen lots of claims about this, but none that states anything directly like leviticus does and that is why it (leviticus) is used so often by christians.

If there was a useful passage that would support their homophobia in the new testament then they would quote it often.

As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him the same dignity as anyone else with whom you come in contact. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially-acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

This sums up what i beleive.
1 Cor. 6:9-10 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/1%20Cor.%206.9-10) Rom. 1:26-28 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/Rom.%201.26-28)

:)

[Ana Gram]

I truly don't understand how someone else's marriage challenges the foundations of your own. If marriage is purely a religious institution, then all these hethan heterosexuals should be challenging the foundations as well.

[veve]

What would Jesus do?

He would love, respect, not judge and treat them as equal.

agreed ...

he hung out with the debt collectors .. :yes:

(heck .. i married a debt collector .. :laughing: )

he also stated that he who has not sinned should throw the first stone.

The world is not perfect :no: but we should make of it what we can - support each other. If I was being discriminated against, I would want the support of my friends and family.

xx
Jen

[Phyllis Stein]

I truly don't understand how someone else's marriage challenges the foundations of your own. If marriage is purely a religious institution, then all these hethan heterosexuals should be challenging the foundations as well.

It's interesting, isn't it?

Personally, I don't think homophobia stems just from the perceived challenge to the institution of marriage, but to the institutions of patriarchy and especially masculinity. I think it has something to do with entrenched, gendered power dynamics.

A gay male is 'feminised', he threatens the entire masculinity-as-dominance, femininity-as-submission paradigm that serves as the basis for organised religion. The ideal human as constructed by the Church is one who conforms to traditional gender roles, including but not limited to heterosexual marriage. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[CazHazKidz]

I'm not religious at all

I don't find gay relationships offensive in any way

If two people who are in love want to be married, why shouldn't they be able to?

BUT (here we go) I don't agree with same sex couples having children. I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice - but I do believe that 2 women, or 2 men aren't capable of having a baby for a good reason! Because a child needs a mother and a father.

Now don't get me wrong, I know many marriages end in divorce, I know many children grow up with their mother or their father and may or may not ever see their other parent - and many of these kids grow up JUST FINE! But it is far from an ideal situation, and I just can't understand why same sex couples would bring a child into the world (via donor sperm and the like), putting them into this situation. It confuses me. :confused:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him the same dignity as anyone else with whom you come in contact. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially-acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

This sums up what i beleive.
1 Cor. 6:9-10 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/1%20Cor.%206.9-10) Rom. 1:26-28 (http://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/Rom.%201.26-28)

:)



9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not b (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,


So you believe that forincating should also be
illegal, and those who fornicate should have
less rights then others. Same for those who
are idol?


10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will a (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God


Should people who covet things be given less
rights as well as gay people and not be
allowed to marry? Revilers aslo? most people
in this day and age do quite a bit of reviling.


Or revilers as in the use of bad language? Which many people also do participate in. I have seen it myself.

It just seems that even from the new testemant that the letter is not followed unless it applies to minorities such as gay people.

[Mathermy]

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not b (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,




So you believe that forinacting should also be
illegal, and thos who fornicate should have
less rights then others. Same for those who
are idol?


10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will a (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God


Should people who covet things be given less
rights tas well as gay people and not be
allowed to marry? Revilers aslo? most people
in this day and age do quite a bit of reviling.

intr.v. rev·eled also rev·elled, rev·el·ing also rev·el·ling, rev·els also rev·els 1. To take great pleasure or delight: She reveled in her unaccustomed leisure.
2. To engage in uproarious festivities; make merry.

n. A boisterous festivity or celebration; merrymaking. Often used in the plural

It just seems that even from the new testemant that the letter is not followed unless it applies to minorities such as gay people.



Am I a fornicator? I quite like that word :D

ETA: Is that a completely inappropriate question?

& SSP have you been busy all of this time studying the bible?

[bada]

Am I a fornicator? I quite like that word :D Could make a wonderful username ;)


& SSP have you been busy all of this time studying the bible? Well it is Sunday sheeesh what else would she be doing :rolleyes:

[~Candy~]

What annoys me is...centrelink now have add's on tv stating that same sex couples living together are just the same as male/female cpls living together and they are to declare this.....so then..WHY can't they also get married legally and live like the rest of the cpls out there?

[bada]

What annoys me is...centrelink now have add's on tv stating that same sex couples living together are just the same as male/female cpls living together and they are to declare this.....so then..WHY can't they also get married legally and live like the rest of the cpls out there?
Because that wouldn't benefit the government financially, silly! :rolleyes:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Am I a fornicator? I quite like that word :D

ETA: Is that a completely inappropriate question?

& SSP have you been busy all of this time studying the bible?

I studied the bible quite a lot when I was a youngin. I read the whole thing. There was a a lot of begatting going on in the beginning, than later this dude called Jesus came and he was really noice, but people don't seem to listen to his message.:no:

Which was and I quote "leteth the gay people marry and multiply or else you just aint listening to me man- peace out"

[~Candy~]

Because that wouldn't benefit the government financially, silly! :rolleyes:

Please explain?

[bada]

I studied the bible quite a lot when I was a youngin. I read the whole thing. There was a a lot of begatting going on in the beginning, than later this dude called Jesus came and he was really noice, but people don't seem to listen to his message.:no:

Which was and I quote "leteth the gay people marry and multiply or else you just aint listening to me man- peace out" TOTALLY! And I'm pretty sure he said it while toking on the peace pipe :D Afterall god gave every seed bearing plant on earth to man (Genesis 1:29)

[bada]

Please explain?
Centrelink recognising homosexual couples ultimately means the government doesn't have to pay out as much money, so it benefits the government financially to recognise homosexual couples in that instance, and surprise surprise when there is $ involved they can quickly step up and change things.

[~Candy~]

Centrelink recognising homosexual couples ultimately means the government doesn't have to pay out as much money, so it benefits the government financially to recognise homosexual couples in that instance, and surprise surprise when there is $ involved they can quickly step up and change things.

I don't understand how that has got anything to do with same sex cpls not being able to legally get married :confused:

[sam's mum]

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not b (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,


So you believe that forincating should also be
illegal, and those who fornicate should have
less rights then others. Same for those who
are idol?


10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will a (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God


Should people who covet things be given less
rights as well as gay people and not be
allowed to marry? Revilers aslo? most people
in this day and age do quite a bit of reviling.

intr.v. rev·eled also rev·elled, rev·el·ing also rev·el·ling, rev·els also rev·els 1. To take great pleasure or delight: She reveled in her unaccustomed leisure.
2. To engage in uproarious festivities; make merry.

n. A boisterous festivity or celebration; merrymaking. Often used in the plural

Or revilers as in the use of bad language? Which many people also do participate in. I have seen it myself.

It just seems that even from the new testemant that the letter is not followed unless it applies to minorities such as gay people.

can you clarify if the word should be reviler or reveller, because they are very different. the bible quote has reviler, but you have given the definition of reveller.

[bada]

What annoys me is...centrelink now have add's on tv stating that same sex couples living together are just the same as male/female cpls living together and they are to declare this.....so then..WHY can't they also get married legally and live like the rest of the cpls out there?


Centrelink recognising homosexual couples ultimately means the government doesn't have to pay out as much money, so it benefits the government financially to recognise homosexual couples in that instance, and surprise surprise when there is $ involved they can quickly step up and change things.


I don't understand how that has got anything to do with same sex cpls not being able to legally get married :confused: I'm not sure why you are confused, but here is my first post which might help you understand my view
Definitely agree and think there should be equality, also think it's a huge joke that centrelink/government will recognise a homosexual couple living in a committed relationship because it would cost the government more if they didn't recognise the relationship, but oh no they aren't allowed to get married :rolleyes:
if not sorry I don't know how else to explain it.

[~Candy~]

Ok..I got it...I didn't see your 1st post as there was waaaaayy too many pages to read. The eyeroll made me think you were going elsewhere with this.

All good :shakehands:

[Leisa21]

For all the Christians who have said it goes against their religion/beliefs to agree with same sex marriage, is our God not a loving God? One who accepts each and everyone of us for who we are regardless of the things we have done? Is he not a compassionate God?

To use Christianity to mask your homophobia is ridiculous and offensive to our Lord.

What would Jesus do?

He would love, respect, not judge and treat them as equal.
Indeed :iagree:



:D I eat before mass (not a rule any more), I *really* curse :eek: I agree with you, this does not make us bad Catholics, in fact if anything it makes us good, because we think about concepts instead of having blind faith.
I told DH it wasn't a rule and he said he knows but they didn't do it growing up so he finds it hard to break the habit. I had a bowl of special K and a cuppa before mass this morning. DH starved :devil6: I wish you went to my church :flowerz: We could start a feminist Catholic group, although I fear we'd be the only ones LOL.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Centrelink recognising homosexual couples ultimately means the government doesn't have to pay out as much money, so it benefits the government financially to recognise homosexual couples in that instance, and surprise surprise when there is $ involved they can quickly step up and change things.
:iagree: They are not doing it for any other reason.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

can you clarify if the word should be reviler or reveller, because they are very different. the bible quote has reviler, but you have given the definition of reveller.

I corrected myself by adding use of bad language.:D

[sam's mum]

I corrected myself by adding use of bad language.:D

cool :thumbsup:

[Beany]

There are plenty of things in various religions that aren't allowed or are insisted upon that aren't enshrined in law. Eating pork, for example, is forbidden in both Judaism and Islam. Why isn't that made illegal in Australia?

In Christianity, anyone that doesn't give up all they possess cannot be considered a Christian: Luke 14:33 "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." So should personal possessions of any form become illegal?

And of course, "I suffer not a woman to teach" 1 Timothy 2:12. So all those teachers all over Australia should immediately be given the sack?

Australia is a secular country and no one should have to follow the archaic laws set down by a religious imperative that has become redundant. Our society has evolved. Our morality has evolved. We are not as closed minded. We don't think women should be silent. We don't think women that practise natural medicine are witches to be burned at the stake. We don't believe that a child that curses its parent should be put to death. And for the most part, we don't believe that homosexuals are lesser people, to be treated poorly, to be outcast, to not enjoy the love and security that the rest of the country does.

If someone is not of your religion, they should not have to be forced to comply by the laws of your religion. Your choice to comply, regardless of legalities, would surely make your faith appear that much stronger to your God? ;)

[Mummaholic]

Indeed :iagree:

I told DH it wasn't a rule and he said he knows but they didn't do it growing up so he finds it hard to break the habit. I had a bowl of special K and a cuppa before mass this morning. DH starved :devil6: I wish you went to my church :flowerz: We could start a feminist Catholic group, although I fear we'd be the only ones LOL.

Hehe maybe I do...maybe I am sitting right behind you! LOL.

I just know there are more of us out there :p

I think this is a social justice issue, something that forms a part of at least the Catholic Church's teachings


Since Vatican II the methodology that has been promoted asks us to read the ‘signs of the times’ using the ‘see’, ‘judge’, ‘act’ method that Cardjin made popular in workers’ and students’
movements. It asks us to work inductively, looking first at the social justice issues as they exist in
our communities, before assessing what is happening, and what is at stake. Finally we need to
discern what action to undertake in response.

http://www.socialjustice.catholic.org.au/CONTENT/pdf/cst_intro.pdf

[tyler's mum]

If there is a God why does he have the final say in how a person should live:confused: Your taking the word of a man who may have never lived on what is right and wrong. This is what i dont like about religion JMO you believe in this man who was meant to have died for us, Who love us all but yet he judges how a person should live. I judge a person on how they treat me treat other not what they do behide close doors.

[~Candy~]

If there is a God why does he have the final say in how a person should live:confused: Your taking the word of a man who may have never lived on what is right and wrong. This is what i dont like about religion JMO you believe in this man who was meant to have died for us, Who love us all but yet he judges how a person should live. I judge a person on how they treat me treat other not what they do behide close doors.

:iagree:..I don't get the whole religion thing either...this is NOW..TODAY..not wayyy back then!

[BigRedV]

:iagree:..I don't get the whole religion thing either...this is NOW..TODAY..not wayyy back then!
:iagree: also

The bible is ANCIENT...if it was written to day it would be drastically different

[Ana Gram]

If someone is not of your religion, they should not have to be forced to comply by the laws of your religion. Your choice to comply, regardless of legalities, would surely make your faith appear that much stronger to your God? ;)

This :yes:

[Leisa21]

Hehe maybe I do...maybe I am sitting right behind you! LOL.

I just know there are more of us out there :p

I think this is a social justice issue, something that forms a part of at least the Catholic Church's teachings



http://www.socialjustice.catholic.org.au/CONTENT/pdf/cst_intro.pdf
I hope you weren't sitting behind me today. The lady was horrible LOL. She made a comment because I let my son eat in mass and she glared at DS when he blew her a kiss. RUDE lol. Most people go all gushy over a toddler being a sweety at church. maybe she was having a bad day.


If there is a God why does he have the final say in how a person should live:confused: Your taking the word of a man who may have never lived on what is right and wrong. This is what i dont like about religion JMO you believe in this man who was meant to have died for us, Who love us all but yet he judges how a person should live. I judge a person on how they treat me treat other not what they do behide close doors.
Christians don't do as God tells us. We were given the freedom to make our own decisions. God is not vengeful :no: People are following religions and are choosing to live their life a certain way. Religion says homosexuality is bad not God. The bible and religions are peoples interpretations of what God wants. This is why they are sometimes flawed and we should question them!

[delirium]

I don't believe in god but my father is religious. He's not homophobic as such but doesn't overly like it. One day we were having a discussion about homosexuality and I asked him - That if being gay is so bad/wrong, why does god continue to create gay people? He had no response. I mean, if god is so angered by it, why? Like I said, I don't believe in god, but if I did, I would see it as the ultimate sign that he is fine with those that fall in love with the same gender.

Surely god, if there is one, doesn't make mistakes? :sunshine:

[Fuchsia!]

Of course they should get married!

Im getting sick to death of religion ruining and trying to run peoples lives.

If you don't like gays getting married then to friggen bad, deal with it. Its not going to affect you in any way whatsoever so why care so much?


Stick to your religion and stop trying to shove it down peoples throats. Seriously. If you don't like seeing gays together turn around and look the other way.

People should be allowed to be married whether they are man and woman or man and man ect. They have just as much right then anyone else.

I reckon lets make marriage illegal for religious homophobs and see how they like it.

[Mummaholic]

I hope you weren't sitting behind me today. The lady was horrible LOL. She made a comment because I let my son eat in mass and she glared at DS when he blew her a kiss. RUDE lol. Most people go all gushy over a toddler being a sweety at church. maybe she was having a bad day.


Christians don't do as God tells us. We were given the freedom to make our own decisions. God is not vengeful :no: People are following religions and are choosing to live their life a certain way. Religion says homosexuality is bad not God. The bible and religions are peoples interpretations of what God wants. This is why they are sometimes flawed and we should question them!

:iagree: and no, that wasn't me :) I would think that was adorable and he would probably be a whole lot better behaved than my two lol.

[BigRedV]

Gay marriage are bad for children. According to a recent article in child trends, "Research clearly demonstrates that family structure matters for children, and the family structure that helps the most is a family headed by two biological parents ." While gay marriage would encourage adoption of children by homosexual couples, which may be preferable to foster care, some lesbian couples want to have children through anonymous sperm donations, which means some children will be created purposely without knowledge of one of their biological parents. Research (http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/OrganizingResources/counseling.html) has also shown that children raised by homosexuals were more dissatisfied with their own gender, suffer a greater rate of molestation within the family, and have homosexual experiences (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3718206&dopt=Abstract) more often.
Gay marriage will also encourage teens who are unsure of their sexuality to embrace a lifestyle that suffers high rates of suicide, depression, HIV, drug abuse, STDs, and other pathogens. This is particularly alarming because, according to a 1991 scientific survey (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/6/869?maxtoshow=&HITS=80&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1077133347863_11926&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=10&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&journalcode=pediatrics) among 12-year-old boys, more than 25 percent feel uncertain about their sexual orientations. We have already seen that lesbianism is "chic" in certain elite social sectors.
Finally, acceptance of gay marriage will strengthen the notion that marriage is primarily about adult yearnings for intimacy and is not essentially connected to raising children. Children will be hurt by those who will too easily bail out of a marriage because it is not "fulfilling" to them.
3. Gay marriage would be bad for society. The effects we have described above will have strong repercussions on a society that is already having trouble (http://www.publictheology.org/pt_ChristianMarriage.htm) maintaining wholesome stability in marriage and family life. If marriage and families are the foundation for a healthy society, introducing more uncertainty and instability in them will be bad for society.

I would rather a child be raised in a loving homosexual household than a neglectful heterosexual one. If 2 people are really desperate for a child then who cares if they are 2 men or 2 women or man and woman. I have a friend who had her son through IVF and her partner will also be having IVF with the same sperm donor so the children are related. Their son is loved and cherished and that's all that matters and so will any future children.

[BigRedV]

Ok, not wanting to be smarty farty pants :o but given the pretty controversial implications of the above article I thought it best to seek out the source.

Firstly, it's from Christianity Today magazine

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/februaryweb-only/2-16-41.0.html?start=1

Which is fine, again just important to know what bias may be behind the information presented to you.

Secondly I found the above article difficult to find because the brief reference to "Child Trends" a non profit, non partisan research centre made me think that the article was from Child Trends itself, which didn't sound right.


http://www.childtrends.org/index.cfm Great website BTW :thumbsup:


For the record after doing a quick search of the actual "child Trends" publications over the past few years there is no specific studies that I can see on gay marriage itself, nor the implications of. So, unfortunately at best the quotes used in the CT article are a little out of context.

Anyway hope this doesn't annoy anybody, I was just interested in knowing the source because it was pretty "heavy" stuff.

:laughing: :laughing:

Maybe the poster of the article didn't think it would sound credible given that she knew the true source..and of course it isn't :thumbsdown:

Didn't see her responding to your above post either :detective:

[Pinky81]

Why the heck not:confused: It's not hurting anyone:rolleyes:

[MsMummy]

I haven't read all 17 pages...:o...

But I vehemently support same sex marriage.

It's out and out discrimination and it makes me angry.

And religion is irrelevant to the question, as straight couples get married in entirely civil ceremonies.

[our little treasures]

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not b (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,


So you believe that forincating should also be
illegal, and those who fornicate should have
less rights then others. Same for those who
are idol?


10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will a (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/#ref=Ac 20:32,hi=Ac 20:32)inherit the kingdom of God


Should people who covet things be given less
rights as well as gay people and not be
allowed to marry? Revilers aslo? most people
in this day and age do quite a bit of reviling.


Or revilers as in the use of bad language? Which many people also do participate in. I have seen it myself.

It just seems that even from the new testemant that the letter is not followed unless it applies to minorities such as gay people.

Interesting point!!

I don't think there truly is a person who could say they follow all of what the bible preaches. I think that Gay people are condemned more than other so called sinners.

I do believe religion is also a crutch for people to be overtly discriminating to gay people.:thumbsdown:

[jackieb76]

Each to their own but I strongly believe that same sex couples should be allowed to marry like any other couple.

It's all about love and acceptance. Something in my experience seems to be lacking in many religions.

I have a great aunty who is very religious and barely talks to me because:

a) I had a child out of wedlock - I was a single mum for 3 years before meeting my current partner.

b) I lived in sin with my current partner

c) I had another child out of wedlock and continue to live in sin.

d) my mum is gay.

I feel that her religion gives her something to hide behind and protects her from the fact that she is outwardly judgmental and critical of the way that others choose to live their lives.

Fair enough if your religion states that something is a sin then as a follower of that religion then it is a sin for you. Not an excuse to treat others as 'sinners' and make them feel bad about themselves and their lives.

As for homosexuality being a choice, what a load of rubbish! My Mum was married to my dad for more than 10 years and suppressed the fact that she was attracted to women. In essence she had to "choose" to be heterosexual because that's what society told her was 'normal'. She has said to me "If I had a choice to be homosexual then I wouldn't choose it" "Why would I choose to be discriminated against, to have to hide this from family, friends and work colleagues. To not be able to freely show affection for my partner in public like heterosexual couples can, why would I choose too live this lifestyle when it is far from easy".

I hope that they change the law soon. Why should religion dictate what is right and wrong for those who choose not to believe. Make these laws using common sense, morals and most of all the opinions of the majority of Australian people, especially young Australians.