If you are pro-life...

[bada]

What do you think of the morning-after-pill?

[Ffrenchknickers]

I think it can potentially cause an abortion.

[Teley]

I am against it.

[MummasPrinces]

I'm against it also!

[Pax]

i dont know what i think of it.

[SassyMummy]

If you would believe it, I USED to be pro-life when I was younger... and didn't really ever think about the MAP. I wasn't against it though, from what I recall.

But then, I was at least under 19... so probably didn't have much rationale when it came to things like that. I just thought what I thought... without any real reason behind it. :p

[bada]

So do pro-lifers view a fertilised egg/foetus/baby as the same thing?

[bronny-jane]

So do pro-lifers view a fertilised egg/foetus/baby as the same thing?

im not fully pro life, i believe in choice to an extent;)

i dont see cells or a fertilised egg as a baby.. so taking a pill before your period is even due, i dont have an issue with, and think its a better option then an abortion.. also less intrusive and less traumatic on the body and person involved

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I am pro life. :) Because life is important.

I am also pro choice. I have taken the morning after pill twice, and who will ever know if there was a fertalised egg?

[Teley]

So do pro-lifers view a fertilised egg/foetus/baby as the same thing?

I see them all as human life:).

[Ffrenchknickers]

So do pro-lifers view a fertilised egg/foetus/baby as the same thing?

I believe life starts at conception.

[Fuchsia!]

So how do pro lifers feeler about IVF?

[delirium]

Geez what is it with all these threads wanting pro lifers to justify every facet of their beliefs?

[bada]

Geez what is it with all these threads wanting pro lifers to justify every facet of their beliefs? I'm trying to understand the thoughts of others.

[delirium]

Sorry. I'm just feeling a bit ganged up on. It wasn't directed at you personally, your thread is only one of 3 or 4 in the last few days.

It just gets tedious feeling like I have to offer up my reasons for being pro life so others can come in and critique and pick apart every little thing I say and accuse me of things that are untrue. Then when we explain, then the goal posts are shifted again to another example or situation where we are proven to be uneducated and anti woman. Gets a bit much.

Don't mind me, I'm just a moody cow today :devil6::D

[Looshkin]

If I had a belief that actively forced women in to a position they didn't want to be in, I would expect the majority of the population to question it.

To be fair.. it' a moot belief, one that is only ever possible to police except for yourself and impossible beyond that.. (except to promote a culture of shame)

I'm shocked anyone is against the morning after pill, unless they only mean for themselves specifically.

I can not believe anyone in our society would be so.. morally dictatorial.. they would want to move into the direction of a society, where rape, failed protection (broken condoms) means a forced pregnancy and birth.. that something designed to stop the implantation of an embryo is not available.

I feel it is naive to deny someone emergency contraception in the hopes that they would just cross their fingers and pray they didn't end up pregnant. That once they were pregnant someone who would have used the pill to avoid pregnancy would just always change their mind and want to be pregnant?

I really do find it naive to believe that if the woman would have taken the pill, as this logically equates to the desire to avoid pregnancy, that she would no go on to have an abortion. Legal safe and available, or illegal unsafe and available.

I am appalled at those who actively say they are willing to fight for these sort of changes.
I can not comprehend the attitude of enforced suffering, without knowing their situations.

I can understand personally not wanting to use it, but to be of the attitude that it should not be available Re: south dakota ruling abortion ilegal from conception - so no morning after pill.. forced birth for anyone who can't afford to cross the state lines.:(

It is the more evil of evils choices.
Abortion is the lesser of two evils.

I sincerely hope like many changed stance former pro life, nothing ever happens to someone close to you, for you to afford empathy to others, to make you see the many shades of grey. :(

[Fuchsia!]

Sorry. I'm just feeling a bit ganged up on. It wasn't directed at you personally, your thread is only one of 3 or 4 in the last few days.

It just gets tedious feeling like I have to offer up my reasons for being pro life so others can come in and critique and pick apart every little thing I say and accuse me of things that are untrue. Then when we explain, then the goal posts are shifted again to another example or situation where we are proven to be uneducated and anti woman. Gets a bit much.

Don't mind me, I'm just a moody cow today :devil6::D

Give it a few days and it will be soon, there hasn't been a VB vs CS for awhile, so maybe that one is next

[delirium]

Give it a few days and it will be soon, there hasn't been a VB vs CS for awhile, so maybe that one is next

Come to think of it, ccing hasn't been done for ages, maybe that might be the next one;)

[Poppetfish]

I personally dont like the morning after pill. If however a woman takes it after being raped or the condom broke within a 24 hour period, i can understand.

It is emergency contraception. It should only be used in extreme circumstances. It is better then getting an abortion, marginally.

I think if you have sex, because you choose to have sex, you are playing russian roulette if you dont want a baby and only rely on the condom for protection.

[bada]

I personally dont like the morning after pill. If however a woman takes it after being raped or the condom broke within a 24 hour period, i can understand.
What if someone just forgot to use contraception, and then used the MAP, would that be understandable too?

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I personally dont like the morning after pill. If however a woman takes it after being raped or the condom broke within a 24 hour period, i can understand.

It is emergency contraception. It should only be used in extreme circumstances. It is better then getting an abortion, marginally.

I think if you have sex, because you choose to have sex, you are playing russian roulette if you dont want a baby and only rely on the condom for protection.

I love russian roulette. It's exciting, like sex.

Besides I will not take the contraceptive pill as it and other methods don't agree with me.

The only thing I will use if I must is condoms.

[Opinionated]

I don't see what the difference between abortion and the morning after pill actually is. They both cause a fertilised egg to be no more. The only difference is that one has implanted, while one may not have. I actually don't quite understand how pro-lifers can support it, especially if their pro-life stance is based on religious beliefs.

[Ffrenchknickers]

I don't see what the difference between abortion and the morning after pill actually is. They both cause a fertilised egg to be no more. The only difference is that one has implanted, while one may not have. I actually don't quite understand how pro-lifers can support it, especially if their pro-life stance is based on religious beliefs.

That is true.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

What if someone just forgot to use contraception, and then used the MAP, would that be understandable too?

No, because every sperm is a sacred potential child. No contraception should ever be used.:no:

Think of all those innocent sperm, Where is their right to spermal autonomy? Same with the eggs. Breaks me heart, it does.

[SassyMummy]

Well, the MAP doesn't always banish a fertilised egg, because even though the sperm may have gotten inside you doesn't guarantee it reached the egg and fertilised anything. :)

I suppose that could be one reason why people see the MAP as different - because with an abortion, you know there is a foetus/embryo that is being terminated. With the MAP, you have no idea if there's anything there TO terminate...

[MummasPrinces]

So do pro-lifers view a fertilised egg/foetus/baby as the same thing?

I believe it's a baby from the moment of conception! :thumbsup:

[Whispers]

No, because every sperm is a sacred potential child. No contraception should ever be used.:no:

Think of all those innocent sperm, Where is their right to spermal autonomy? Same with the eggs. Breaks me heart, it does.


I don't actully think there is anyone who really thinks that. The sperm and a egg are just a sperm and egg, but if the sperm has feterlized the egg then thats when it has potential. Pro-life isnt about being against contraception. In saying that I am against abortion being used as contraception, I'm against abortion for many other reasons but this isn't what the thread is about.

I don't agree with the morning after pill, it's just another form of abortion made easier for women.

[Whispers]

So how do pro lifers feeler about IVF?
I'm all for IVF.

[bada]

I don't actully think there is anyone who really thinks that.
:confused: i thought the catholic church did, to an extent.

[bada]

Jaxcoop, how does IVF tie into the pro-life debate?

[Ffrenchknickers]

I feel a little bit sad when I hear of embryos that are destroyed. :( Apart from that, I can't see that IVF does not align with my beliefs.

[Whispers]

What if someone just forgot to use contraception, and then used the MAP, would that be understandable too?
How can you just forget to use contraception :confused:

[SassyMummy]

Jaxcoop, how does IVF tie into the pro-life debate?

Sorry to answer for her... but perhaps because embryos are often created and then destroyed...

So techically, "conception" occurs... but nothing happens with those embryos. In a way, they are made and then gotten rid of... which is kinda like an abortion, just outside of the uterus.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I don't actully think there is anyone who really thinks that. The sperm and a egg are just a sperm and egg, but if the sperm has feterlized the egg then thats when it has potential. Pro-life isnt about being against contraception. In saying that I am against abortion being used as contraception, I'm against abortion for many other reasons but this isn't what the thread is about.

I don't agree with the morning after pill, it's just another form of abortion made easier for women.

Some people from particular religions do believe that. It is widely known. They believe that sex should only occur for procreation purposes. That no contraceptives should be available.

Imagine if it became more widely accepted and no contraception was available.

When the pill was first available, many drs would not prescribe it, only immoral women took the pill.

In fact my grandmother sees a Dr who believes this and has a sign up "Do not ask me for a pill prescription, I do not give them"

Imagine if we all had to live our lives according to others moral codes.:detective:

[Whispers]

:confused: i thought the catholic church did, to an extent.
Oh ok I'm not catholic I myself think that veiw is a bit strange IMO lol

[bada]

How can you just forget to use contraception :confused: Drunk, or in the heat of the moment or both or something else completely, but I'm sure it happens.

[Looshkin]

Jaxcoop, how does IVF tie into the pro-life debate?

I would say it would be the fact that blastocysts or, fertilised eggs are often destroyed.

Looking down that barrel right now.. and to be honest, even far, far before it was even a minute possibility, and just something "other people did"
I could never, never begrudge someone this.

[SassyMummy]

How can you just forget to use contraception :confused:

I did, the other night.

I take the pill each night... but I'm sick. My head is all blocked up, both of my ears are blocked, I get terrible sinus headaches... and I fell asleep on the couch before somehow making my way to bed when DP woke me up.

I forgot to take my pill because I felt like cr*p and fell asleep. Took it the next morning, which should still do SOMETHING, but it could have stuffed it all up too.

It's easy to forget that kind of contraception.

[bada]

Sorry to answer for her... but perhaps because embryos are often created and then destroyed...

So techically, "conception" occurs... but nothing happens with those embryos. In a way, they are made and then gotten rid of... which is kinda like an abortion, just outside of the uterus. Ah, thanks. So why do they destroy some? Is it when there are too many than what are needed?

I think that was octomum's reasoning for being impregnated with all those embryos, because she couldn't bare the thought of them being destroyed. I wonder if pro-lifers are also pro octomum :detective:

[Ffrenchknickers]

Some people from particular religions do believe that. It is widely known. They believe that sex should only occur for procreation purposes. That no contraceptives should be available.

I think the Catholic church teaches (or used to) that....which I find strange as it says nothing of the sort in the Bible :no: It says that sex is for enjoyment between a couple.

[Whispers]

Ah, thanks. So why do they destroy some? Is it when there are too many than what are needed?

I think that was octomum's reasoning for being impregnated with all those embryos, because she couldn't bare the thought of them being destroyed. I wonder if pro-lifers are also pro octomum :detective:

I think she had every right to use her embryos

[Looshkin]

I feel a little bit sad when I hear of embryos that are destroyed. :( Apart from that, I can't see that IVF does not align with my beliefs.

Oh I'm curious.. (sorry if you don't want to discuss it just say ignore it) but I'm so.. curious..

But I honestly don't understand how the morning after pill and freezing embryos when we know not all survive etc.. is different?

Is it because of intent? i,e one doesn't want to risk pregnancy, the other really really does?
Or because of being outside the body?

[Ffrenchknickers]

Pro-OctoMum?? Are there people who are anti-octomum? That's a bit sad, that you could be anti a person.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I think the Catholic church teaches (or used to) that....which I find strange as it says nothing of the sort in the Bible :no: It says that sex is for enjoyment between a couple.

I wasn't talking about the Catholic church. Many fundamentalist religions believe something like that.

So is that cool? I mean it is their moral belief and it makes as much sense to me as any pro life argument.

All eggs and sperm are potential children, I don't want any harmed.

[bada]

Pro-OctoMum?? Are there people who are anti-octomum? That's a bit sad, that you could be anti a person.
Hell yes there are plenty of ppl who are anti-octomum. The poor woman received death threats among a whole bunch of other crap. And the majority viw is that she was irresponsible, as far as i know.

Anyways, I wonder how many times we can go off topic in this thread hehehe

[Ffrenchknickers]

I wasn't talking about the Catholic church, although many fundamentalist religions believe something like that.

OK...I was just responding...that I think the Catholic Church teaches that. :confused: There are others too, obviously...and I find it strange because it isnot what the bible teaches....so I don't think it is a fundamental Christian belief :no:

I was agreeing with you?

[Pax]

All eggs and sperm are potential children, I don't want any harmed.

If everyone treated their eggs and sperm as sacred we wouldnt even need to have this thread!

that is the whole point.

[Ffrenchknickers]

Oh I'm curious.. (sorry if you don't want to discuss it just say ignore it) but I'm so.. curious..

But I honestly don't understand how the morning after pill and freezing embryos when we know not all survive etc.. is different?

Is it because of intent? i,e one doesn't want to risk pregnancy, the other really really does?
Or because of being outside the body?

I will give this one some thought, as to my wording. I am hesistant to discuss IVF much on here as my understanding is limited and there are alot of people going through alot of heartache.

My beliefs are my beliefs because I strongly feel that way....I don't actually expect anyone else to believe what I do, I.REALLY.DON'T.

[SassyMummy]

I think because they don't need all of them.

They make up a certain amount... and yeah. If they're not needed I think you can donate to research or to another couple, or choose to have them disposed of.

I'm pretty sure you can keep them too, if you want, for later on...

I'm not 100% on it, I've never had to use IVF or anything... but that's my understanding of it.

Many do get destroyed though.

[Looshkin]

You're more thoughtful than me.. even though it's the path I seem to be looking at going down now.. my curiosity isn't more important to anyone who might read it and be hurt, you're right.

I guess I should take tact classes, or lessons in sugar coating or something.:o
Or think before you go demanding answers that might upset or be too confronting for some.

eta. woah, sorry.. I'm not putting your beliefs on trial by asking questions, honestly I'm not suggesting you expect anyone else to feel or think like you.... but when my mind can't rationally understand a certain conclusion I ask about it? If I didn't I'd probaby be even more tactless than I am???

[Ffrenchknickers]

You're more thoughtful than me.. even though it's the path I seem to be looking at going down now.. my curiosity isn't more important to anyone who might read it and be hurt, you're right.

I guess I should take tact classes, or lessons in sugar coating or something.:o
Or think before you go demanding answers that might upset or be too confronting for some.

Usually why my posts are always edited.:shame:

No, I don't think you lacked tact...I just want to be aware that although my beliefs are deeply impotant to me, above all, should be grace.....and everything should be constructive and in good intention.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

If everyone treated their eggs and sperm as sacred we wouldnt even need to have this thread!

that is the whole point.

Yay we are agreed, women and men should never use contraception, because every sperm is sacred and so is the egg.

[Pax]

Yay we are agreed, women and men should never use contraception, because every sperm is sacred and so is the egg.
No you are sarcastic and because you are so are missing the point!:hair:

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

No you are sarcastic and because you are so are missing the point!:hair:

No I made the point. Some people believe that the egg and sperm are sacred and no one should have sex unless they are trying to procreate. Is it cool if we make this the law?

[Jax Tellers Old Lady]

I am going to give my opinion on the Ivf side of the fence. The process of it is never certain and is emotionally and financially draining. You never know during a cycle how many eggs will be viable and also how many viable eggs will go on to become an embryo. Just getting to that stage is hard and then when a woman has an embyo that is implanted and it doesnt impegnate is devastating.

Getting pregnant through Ivf has been a journey that although is amazing its also been the hardest journey of my life. For many people they spend years and thousands on ths procedure and I believe it is their right to decide when they have had enough or when they are satisfied with the amount of children they have.

I myself have eight embryos stored and I pay rent to keep them at the Lab, I still dont know when we will or if we will use them, I believe that its my choice.

For those who say that every fertilised egg or sperm is a potential life, how man thousands would you be prepared to spend to make sure they were all used?

[KatiesMum]

I'm not 100% on it, I've never had to use IVF or anything... but that's my understanding of it.

Many do get destroyed though.

Thats not really quite the case as I understand it.

Due to the incredibly emotional and physical trauma involved in undergoing IVF cycles, not too many get destroyed.

For the most part - people such as Sodor (:hugs:) who fall pregnant and still have some frozen embryos, tend to pay for the storage, and use those embryos in the future.

Yes, some are allowed to succumb .... but the vast majority are implanted and hoped for, prayed for and dreamed of.

[Pax]

No I made the point. Some people believe that the egg and sperm are sacred and no one should have sex unless they are trying to procreate. Is it cool if we make this the law?

there are laws about every other bodily fluid so why not.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

there are laws about every other bodily fluid so why not.

Great then if that is what you want Morrigan.

It's going to be a fun world. :smiliedance: