So routine mums - how did you do it?

[sahm]

Following on from the "do you have a routine" thread, I'm wondering how you mums who have successfully mastered the routine did so.

My 5 wk old DS is in some terrible patterns at the moment, waking 3 hourly overnight for feeds, which wouldn't be so bad, except he is taking so long to settle for his day sleeps that he is constantly overtired, and when he finally does go to sleep, he's sleeping through his feeds. During the day, he takes anything from 30 mins to 3 hours to settle. Not all of this is upset or crying, but despite his tiredness, he just won't sleep.

I've been trying to have him settle in his basinette as much as possible, putting him down when his eyes are droopy, going in frequently to pat his bottom to encourage him to sleep, when he cries, repeating this until he is quiet, but it's taking so long and I have a 2 year old who needs me too.

So I'm wondering, how did you get your routine started? Do you wake your baby at specific times for feeds, no matter how long they've taken to settle to sleep? Was your bub in bad habits before and the routine fixed them or did you do the routine to make your days a bit more structured?

Lots of questions I know, but I'm very confused as I thought I'd have a better handle on the second child, and it doesn't seem to be the case!


Please note - I don't want people criticising posters methods etc, I just want to know how people who successfully mastered routines did so. Thanks! :)

[kotakai]

As I said in the other thread, I had no routine with my 1st 2. When pregnant with #3 a friend recommended reading The Baby Whisperer. This was the best thing I could've done & even though I already had 2 kids, I learnt so much from her books.

I think one of the 1st things to remember is what works for 1 baby won't necessarily (sp?) work for another baby.

DS3 was 7 weeks prem & came home from hospital at 3 weeks old on 3 hourly feeds. I changed this straight away to 4 hourly as as bad as it sounds, with 3 other kids I don't have time to feed every 3 hours. I also needed to make sure his feeds didn't co incide with school pick up & drop off, so I played around with times, until deciding on 6, 10 & 2.

I follow the baby whisperer's E.A.S.Y routine, which is eat, activity, sleep, your time.

A typical day goes like Cruz waking up at 6am for a feed. (I'm now FF, but did this when breastfeeding also) He's still a terrible feeder, he keeps his tongue curled up & you need to put the bottle on top of his tongue for him to drink properly, so it can literally sometimes take up to 10 minutes just to get the bottle in his mouth properly. A feed usually lasts just over 1/2 hour. He has bad reflux, so I like to keep him up right for a while after a feed.

Then the activity part for him is just lying there, either on his bouncer or on the change table under a mobile out of DS2's reach if I have things to do. This may be around 1/2 hour or so, just look for tired signs.

He then gets put in his Woombie & put in his basinet awake. He usually goes off to sleep quietly, but if he's whingy I give him his dummy. He sometimes wakes crying, but I just leave him & he usually goes back off. If it's a painful cry & he's scrunching his legs up, I'll pick him up & burp him & then put him back down.

He usually wakes at the correct time for his next feed, but if he doesn't I wake him (except over night) I choose to do this as if one feed is late, then they'll all be late & I need him to feed at his normal times for our day to work.



I followed this same routine with DS2 & even now at 14 months, I know what times he'll sleep & he's just gone to 1 bottle at 6am, but before that I knew exactly when he'd want his bottles & for me, that just makes my day's easier.

[nicw]

Tizzie Hall "Save our Sleep" book! Worked amazingly. I used it for my second baby. I managed to get my son in a great routine. After reading the book i also changed my toddler daughters routine in order to get them to sleep at the same time. It worked.

[sahm]

He then gets put in his Woombie & put in his basinet awake. He usually goes off to sleep quietly, but if he's whingy I give him his dummy. He sometimes wakes crying, but I just leave him & he usually goes back off. If it's a painful cry & he's scrunching his legs up, I'll pick him up & burp him & then put him back down.



I wrap DS and give him a cuddle until his eyes are droopy and put him down, but my main problem is that he opens his eyes again will actually stay there quite happily, awake for anything up to an hour before he starts to cry, at which point he's so overtired it takes another hour of patting/settling, at which point he's up to his next feed! So he either sleeps through his feed, or feeds and then falls asleep from exhaustion and everything is out of whack because he's been up for over three hours.

How did you combat this problem or has your DS always been pretty good at just falling asleep?

[kotakai]

What's he doing before you wrap & cuddle him?

[sahm]

He's having his activity time in his bouncer or getting a cuddle from me or DH. His brother (who's 2) is usually showing him cars or toys so I take him out of the lounge room to give him some quiet time in the bedroom just before I wrap him and put him down.

[kotakai]

My suggestion to try would be:

When you notice tired signs, just pick him up, wrap him, give him a kiss & tell him it's time for a sleep now, you'll see him soon (which I know sounds silly, but if you do this from the start they get used to it & understand what it means) & put him straight to bed. Don't cuddle till he gets sleepy, otherwise this is what he's going to associate with sleep, so when you do put him down & he wakes at the end of his 1st sleep cycle, which they usually do, that's when he'll freak out as you're not holding him anymore.

Also, as I just said, there's a big chance he'll wake or stir at the end of the 1st sleep cycle & may cry out, but just leave him for a second, don't rush straight in, as you want him to drift back off himself.

It may not work the 1st time you try it, but if you stay consistant, even at this very young age, they get the idea.


He may be taking a while to drift off as by then you've missed the 'window period', so he's over tired & lays there awake. I put him down about an hour after he finishes his feed, as long as the feed took around 1/2 hour. (my DS was prem, so your's may be able to stay awake longer). So say he wakes at 6am for a bottle, he's usually done by 1/2 past, so around 7.30 he gets put back down & so on through out the day. (he feeds every 4 hours)


Another thing, does he sleep in his room? Maybe it's too quiet, so you could maybe get a cd of white noise or something similar to play.

[iMischa]

when should you try to impliment a routine..is it 6 weeks or should it be done earlier? my boo is awake alot during the day but come evening he does ALOT of sleeping so around 3 am hes up for a party until 6 or so, bah!!

[kotakai]

There's really no right or wrong time, but I've just learnt from doing things 2 different ways, I found starting straight from the start worked much better for me.

With my 1st, I held & rocked her to sleep, as I knew no better. God I wish I knew about bub hub 8 years ago :laughing:

With my 3rd, I was more informed, plus had learnt from experience & knew I wanted to do things differently, so I did it from the day he came home & I'm doing it again with #4.

[Frocky]

Today i've tried to start the Tizzie Hall routine and it's been a disaster. Olivia screams until she's held for the entire time she's supposed to be asleep, then sleeps instead of having activity time - despite every attempt to wake her. How many days does it take to get babies in to these routines? I can't bear another day with so much screaming, my head is splitting.

[Mrs Awesome]

Im following the Baby Bliss method....seems to be working so far. Its a pretty practical method, and doesnt focus so much on a routine as such until I think over 6 weeks. Instead it focuses on each 4 hour sleep/feed/play block of time for the first 6 weeks.
Even just following this, so far Harry has settled into his own little routine and most nights is now sleeping for a 6-8hr block. The focus for first 6 weeks is also more on teaching your baby to be a good sleeper.

A block of time might look something like this.....

0730am - wakes up
0740 - Breast feed
0810 - get dressed/nappy change (also chat/play time with mum and dad)
0830 - Back to bed to sleep until anywhere between 1030-1130

If he wakes up in the meantime I re-settle him.

Sleep time doesnt necessarily have to be in bed, could be in pram if you are out shopping or sling if you are out and about etc.

This cycle continues until the evening in 3-4hr blocks of time. Then no matter what time I have fed him, whenever I am ready for bed....usually 11pm.....I offer a BF or EBM in a bottle while he is still asleep (dreamfeed) with no talking or interaction then straight back to bed.

[sahm]

Frocky - Teaching self-settling is really hard work. I tried the SOS routines with my first son and gave up after 6 weeks (when he was 12 weeks old). I continued with the self-settling methods, but trying to get him to adhere to the times was too much hard work and too stressful.

That said, teaching self-settling is no picnic. DS1 wasn't too bad, but DS2 (who is now 6 weeks) is a huge screamer, so I'm just taking it one sleep at a time. If he takes longer than half an hour (or if I get fed up and can't handle it anymore), I've started getting him up, like he's had a sleep and starting the feed, play, sleep cycle over again. Yes, he gets overtired, but no more so than if he continued to cry and not settle in his cot.

Buddy - I read this book before DS2 was born, and have tried to follow it's settling advice. Unfortunately, with a toddler running around, it's been hard for me to follow it through to the letter and I often end up with any overtired baby, which sucks, but I guess that's life with two. Glad it's working so well for you though. I wish I'd read this book first with DS1.

[Jaspat24]

Im following the Baby Bliss method....seems to be working so far. Its a pretty practical method, and doesnt focus so much on a routine as such until I think over 6 weeks. Instead it focuses on each 4 hour sleep/feed/play block of time for the first 6 weeks.
Even just following this, so far Harry has settled into his own little routine and most nights is now sleeping for a 6-8hr block. The focus for first 6 weeks is also more on teaching your baby to be a good sleeper.

A block of time might look something like this.....

0730am - wakes up
0740 - Breast feed
0810 - get dressed/nappy change (also chat/play time with mum and dad)
0830 - Back to bed to sleep until anywhere between 0930-1030

If he wakes up in the meantime I re-settle him.

Sleep time doesnt necessarily have to be in bed, could be in pram if you are out shopping or sling if you are out and about etc.

This cycle continues until the evening in 3-4hr blocks of time. Then no matter what time I have fed him, whenever I am ready for bed....usually 11pm.....I offer a BF or EBM in a bottle while he is still asleep (dreamfeed) with no talking or interaction then straight back to bed.

OP: i first tried SOS and the settling routines half worked. Then i found baby bliss. Many tearand lots of hard work later, i now have a beautful self settling baby who responds well to being resettled (apart from when he's hungry or the reflux is troubling him). he needs to be wrapped, dummy in and left alone to go to sleep. Have you considered activities for your toddler to be doing while you're trying to implement the settling? some people don't like TV but maybe you could use that? or something else you know your toddler likes so you get some uninterrupted time to settle your new baby.
personally i can't use a strict routine for my DS cos h's a slow weight gainer and if i've been there for 5 mins trying to resettle him and he's not settling, then with him, its hunger or acid.

[ssbaby]

Hi,

We have done routine from birth for our DS. We are on a 3 hr feed and yes we wake him for all feeds (6am, 9am, 12noon, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm and then we do a dreamfeed for midnight) and he sleeps through to 6am. He is also bottlefed, so we know if he wakes up when he should be sleeping then something has often woken him up.

Routine is really hard at the start, but I now think it is worth while as DS settles to sleep in his cot and seems quite relaxed. You might want to get an idea of his natural feed cycle (ie is 3hrs enough for him, some babies like 2.5hrs). Also I ready in the baby whispher book that babies under 12 weeks usually take 3 days to learn something new, so persist with it for a few days and see how it goes.

The key guidelines we follow are:
We try and feed at the same time each day, and allow a 15min window each way (ie if he wakes early from a sleep and is hungry then we feed him) so this takes into account growth spurt phases etc. We also do eat, play, sleep and he is only awake for about 45min each time, and is in his cot awake once we see his sleep times. And we are really careful not to over stimulate him otherwise he never settles.

you are welcome to PM me if you have any questions about how we do it.

Good luck!!

[julie439]

is a 'dreamfeed' where you wake them up for a feed to increase the chances of a longer sleep @ night?

[Mrs Awesome]

Dreamfeed: To do the dreamfeed, you gently pick up your sleeping baby, place the bottle or breast on his lower lip and allow him to drink, taking care not to wake him. When finished, sit him upright for a few minutes to allow wind to escape. Babies are usually so relaxed at this feed, they don't gulp air and so don't have much wind.

I do the dream feed in as much darkness as possible and dont talk to him or change nappies or anything. I keep bubs wrapped too. then when he is finished i put him straight back to bed.

Hope that makes sense.

[2girls&1boy]

sahm - I am sorry for crashing this thread as I am not in the April - June 09 mums but after I had my first I used the book "Baby's First Year for Dummies" as my bible.

It helped getting my DD into a routine that suited her & me & I really found it fabulous.

[sahm]

sahm - I am sorry for crashing this thread as I am not in the April - June 09 mums but after I had my first I used the book "Baby's First Year for Dummies" as my bible.

It helped getting my DD into a routine that suited her & me & I really found it fabulous.


Hey, anyone with practical advice is more than welcome to crash my thread!

Thanks for the idea, will definitely take a look at this book.

[ssbaby]

oh and I forgot to say the key thing we do with our routine is to start the day at a set time each day, so you and bubba have something consistent to work from. We have set our start of day for 6am, but this morning for example he woke up at 5.50am, so we fed him and still waited till 9am for his next feed.

We followed the guidelines called 'babywise' - it is not for everyone but it seems to have worked for our DS. I also read secrets of the baby whisper by Tracey Hogg. Both encourage routine but with some element of flexibility. He is growing very well despite being premie and has slept midnight - 6am from 6 weeks old.

Good luck!!

[lanaamelia]

Following on from the "do you have a routine" thread, I'm wondering how you mums who have successfully mastered the routine did so.

My 5 wk old DS is in some terrible patterns at the moment, waking 3 hourly overnight for feeds, which wouldn't be so bad, except he is taking so long to settle for his day sleeps that he is constantly overtired, and when he finally does go to sleep, he's sleeping through his feeds. During the day, he takes anything from 30 mins to 3 hours to settle. Not all of this is upset or crying, but despite his tiredness, he just won't sleep.

I've been trying to have him settle in his basinette as much as possible, putting him down when his eyes are droopy, going in frequently to pat his bottom to encourage him to sleep, when he cries, repeating this until he is quiet, but it's taking so long and I have a 2 year old who needs me too.

So I'm wondering, how did you get your routine started? Do you wake your baby at specific times for feeds, no matter how long they've taken to settle to sleep? Was your bub in bad habits before and the routine fixed them or did you do the routine to make your days a bit more structured?

Lots of questions I know, but I'm very confused as I thought I'd have a better handle on the second child, and it doesn't seem to be the case!


Please note - I don't want people criticising posters methods etc, I just want to know how people who successfully mastered routines did so. Thanks! :)

all i have to say is i let my buggalugs go, she ate when she was hungry and slept when she was tired, now she sleeps 8-10 hrs at night and shes only 8 weeks old,if she was tired but wouldnt settle i let her cry for a lil bit, most of the time she would fall asleep with in 5 or so min, soon enough that all passed and she only cries when she wakes up and i dont hear her.ive only had to rock her a few times because she was extremely unsettled,

i hope you work out a routine or it sorts its self out soon good luck if you continue to have problems maybe go to the docs

[julie439]

Ok, well my bub is 3 months and still waking up 2-3 times a night (doesnt bother me too much and I know one day i'll wake up and realise I slept the whole night without disturbance!!
My main prob is that she wont have day sleeps longer than 15 mins. (unless I am cuddling her) Yesterday I decided harden up and begin controlled crying. For me @ this stage it involvs stayng in the room with her and comforting her when neccesary. I plan on battling for up to an hour if necceary...:rolleyes: So far it seems to be working. She still is waking up every twenty mins or so, but im managuing to get her back to sleep in her cot- which is revolutionary!! Hoping it will improve with persistence:dizzy:

[bubbybean]

Hi All,

I am another crasher but am interested in others ideas .... my first DS is 8 wks old and has his own vague routine ... he feeds/sleeps/plays but feeds can take up to 1hr most times where he is then buggered and goes to sleep through the day after most feeds or stays awake for entire break between others.
If he goes to sleep he then usually wakes 1/2 hr before next one is due and plays a while before getting grizzly for next feed. Others he has big sleep and goes longer then 3 hrs between feeds as I don't like to wake him for the next one!
At night once he settles after last bottle (can be anywhere from 7-9 start feed time but 2-3 hr after that before he actually settles to sleep) we wrap and put to bed in cot and he sleeps usually till 12/2am where we change/feed/wrap/back in cot and he self settles then till about 4/6 usually.
Is there any reasoning behind play before sleep? As DS is doing sleep then play should I be keeping him awake after feeds to try and reverse his order?
Also, if day sleeps go longer into next feed due time is waking a good idea or better to leave sleep so don't get over tired?

I am happy enough with his routine but want to get out of the house more now and it is hard to organise appointments or anything as each day has different feed times when we work 3 hrs from last actual feed as he wakes anywhere from 4-6 of a morning so the days are always different! Then put out further when he sleeps longer and some feeds are 4hr apart.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Jaspat24]

Hi All,

I am another crasher but am interested in others ideas .... my first DS is 8 wks old and has his own vague routine ... he feeds/sleeps/plays but feeds can take up to 1hr most times where he is then buggered and goes to sleep through the day after most feeds or stays awake for entire break between others.
If he goes to sleep he then usually wakes 1/2 hr before next one is due and plays a while before getting grizzly for next feed. Others he has big sleep and goes longer then 3 hrs between feeds as I don't like to wake him for the next one!
At night once he settles after last bottle (can be anywhere from 7-9 start feed time but 2-3 hr after that before he actually settles to sleep) we wrap and put to bed in cot and he sleeps usually till 12/2am where we change/feed/wrap/back in cot and he self settles then till about 4/6 usually.
Is there any reasoning behind play before sleep? As DS is doing sleep then play should I be keeping him awake after feeds to try and reverse his order?
Also, if day sleeps go longer into next feed due time is waking a good idea or better to leave sleep so don't get over tired?

I am happy enough with his routine but want to get out of the house more now and it is hard to organise appointments or anything as each day has different feed times when we work 3 hrs from last actual feed as he wakes anywhere from 4-6 of a morning so the days are always different! Then put out further when he sleeps longer and some feeds are 4hr apart.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

Are you breastfeeding? its a good idea to offer them a BF when they wake and also before putting them down to sleep. This will help your supply, help bubs weight and also help them to sleep longer. At 7wks though i probably wouldn't let them go more than 3hours during the day without a feed and then just demand feed at night. I have learnt the hard way that some babies don't adhere to routines and that for my DS trying to get him to feed, play, then sleep wasn't actually giving him enough BM.
According to Babybliss a baby aged 6wks to 3mths should have an awake time of roughly 1-1/2 hrs. i wouldn't be so concerned of the sleep times (sleeps of 2 1/2 to 3hrs and 4-5 sleeps in 24hrs) i would just be feeding them and trying to notice their tired signs. remember breastmilk is food and water, so sometimes bubs might just need a quick drink, and be happy again.

[bubbybean]

Thanks jaspat. I am actually bottle feeding but so maybe I will try to offer him some plain water again ... haven't been since his constipation resolved after first weaning ... poos are quite thin now though so hadn't been offering water in case it made them more so.