truth about soy and milk

[bnatural]

Just a bit of info I would like to share about milk and soy products...I think this is very important for us to know..
Personally the best thing you can do for a child or adult for that matter is to rid the diet of milk and wheat (I know I know.. I hear you say.. WHAT THE..? just please read on) now, i'm talking our supermarket varity here ..

Fristhy..Did you know that milk and bread make the perfect protein?
This combination is also rich in all the B vitamins..add a little butter to the bread and you also have vit. A! Perfect! well... it was... until we started refining our flour and pasteurising and homogenising milk..which has rendered these foods indigestible and therefore USELESS. The process of pasteurising milk kills all the beneficial micro-organisms necessary for its digestion and breaks down some of it's protein..since we can't breakdown this product we stop producing lactase (as in many of us are..lactase intolerant) Hense the number of alergies to milk!

We need to lobby the government to allow the sale of raw milk!! Did you know raw milk is for sale in most countries of the world where they keep cattle.. in australia we are still in the nineteenth century as far as this subject is concerned. It's best to eat yogurt in this case as it has micro-organisms allowing it to be more easily digestable... (being cultured).. goats and sheeps being more ideal than cows.
And then there's breads.. made of refined flour.. useless useless...the wheat is stripped down to nothing.. . don't get me started..I would just like to suggest essene bread as an alternative.. this is where you can buy bread that is sprouted ..it's fresh, it goes off quickly once opened from the packet.. as all good things should if they are REAL!.. oh I just thought of something else to add here.. my nana bought some apples from the supermarket about 2 months ago and they are still green and plastic looking.. ever tried taking an apple from a tree let is sit and see how long it takes to rot.. noooot long that's for sure.. anyway just an example of how all the chemicals in foods makes them so unnatural.. no wonder why most people are constipated.

Soy Milk.. woweee.. .. it's just as bad as what they do to the milk.
I studied naturopathy and have found out that soy contains a high amount of phytic acid (not so bad.. if you eat loads of meat and have excess iron) otherwise.. - the structure of phytic acid gives it the ability to bind minerals you see... proteins and starch.. the result from this is a lower absorption of these subtances..eg it can block the uptake of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc... also inhibits important minerals needed for growth and metabolism, iodine which is used by the thyroid gland in the production of thyroid hormones (metabolism)

It also contains a phytoestrogens which mimic the effects of the female hormone oestrogen. If children are given too much SOY FORUMULA for example they can be receiving the equivalent of 5 birth control pills worth of oestrogen every day!!!

I recommend reading www.westonaprice.org on some stats on this if you are thinking of switching to soy formula.

You should only consume fermented soy products eg - organic miso or organic tempeh.

Perhaps try oats milk or rice milk as alternatives.

Anyway I just wanted to share this.. don't bash me :wave:

[bnatural]

..does anyone care to read my thread on soy products.. formulas in particular?
.. I forgot to mention a few more things..
How soy products got started...The reason there's so much soy in America is because the soy industy started to plant soy to extract the oil from it and soy oil became a very large industry. There was a lot of soy oil and with it came a lot of soy protein residue as a left over byproduct, and since they couldn't feeed it to animals, except in small amounts, they had to find another big market, which, of course, was humans (hhmm sounds a lot like the history of flouride!!)
This excess soy production and its protein residue was the motivation for the multi-million dollars spent on advertising and intense lobbying of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) which resulted in about 74 per cent of US consumers believing that soy products are healthy. Aus has traditionally prided itself on being a dairy consuming nation as we have such an abundant supply of cattle. however, lactose intolerance is becoming a health concern recognised by the medical profession, accordingly, soy is becoming very popular as an alternative to dairy, following hte footsteps of US consumers in believing that all soybased products have a health benefit. In reality, the research that has concluded that all soy products are healthy is far from accurate and very much skewed by economic motives. ...

I recommend you read my thread 'truth about soy and milk'


further more..soy foods contain high levels of aluminum (due to how it is cooked) which is toxic to the nervous systme and the kidneys...

In infants, consuption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.

Is this not enough to turn people off??? If not .. what will??

Consuming even small amounts of unfermented soy on a regular basis could cause some adverse effects in our body. Next time you consider drinking soy milk, perhaps instead consider oat milk, rice milk, coconut milk or goats milk.

[nemosmum]

Hey:wave:

I have pmed you hope you dont mind:o :)

[bnatural]

wot does pmed mean? is that good or bad?:fingerscrossed:

[Funkychicken]

Hi there,
Thank-you for your thread-I CARE!:D There is never too much information on these topics. Keep up the posts!:thumbsup:
PS PM'd means private message sent to you. Check your private messasges box.

[Beany]

I'm not so sure I agree with the information you are providing regarding lactose intolerance. Lactose intolerance is caused by the body's inability to produce lactase, an enzyme which breaks down the sugar in milk into more digestible components. Most people experience a drop in lactase production between the ages of 2 and 4 (when they are weaned onto solids) because the same levels of the enzyme are no longer needed. Due to genetic factors or intestinal problems, some people stop producing enough to be able to digest the milk sugar.

The micro-organisms that are removed from cows milk during the pasteurisation process has little to no bearing on the production of this enzyme in the human body. The reason that lactose intolerant people can digest cheese and yoghurt with more ease than milk is because there is a lower concentration of lactose in those products.

Drinking unpasteurised milk opens you up to a world of possible diseases. Sure, while the raw milk is inside the cow, it's clean but should the cow have mastitis, infectious bugs are transmitted into the milk. It's a risk that just isn't worth taking.

[bnatural]

..beany.. just another scardy perhaps? cleanliness.. blah blah, it's all about fear.. ever been to nepal? go and see how they live.. in filth (our terms) but perhaps the most healthy looking kids i've ever seen.. and have you heard of studies done on farm kids.. ? they have very very strong immune systems.. we're all about rules and regulations in the west.. it seems to do more harm than good.. so long as there are well looked after cows and clean environments there is no need to pasteurise.. don't we look after our cows? yes you would think so.. why then if you go to europe they sell unpasteurised cheeses and milks on the street and they are sooooooo damn healthy? anyway each to there own..i'm not disagreeing about the lactase info you have either.. what i'm saying is it's more common these days due to all the fiddling around they do with the milk..not to mention all the synthetic extras they put in these days.. eg vit D blah blah..

[Beany]

Having had a brother nearly die due to cholera (one of the many diseases that can transmitted through the consumption of unpasteurised milk), yes, I take the risks seriously. And while children in Nepal may look healthy living in "filth", the mortality rates of such children seem to indicate otherwise.

I'm not saying all unpasteurised products are bad or that eating unpasteurised cheeses will lead to any dramatic health pitfalls but it is certainly a risk. Especially so when consumed in large quantities.

And like I said, it bears no relation to actual lactose intolerance. The seeming increase of this condition these days is because of many factors, including medical advances that make diagnoses more readily available and the immigration of genetically predisposed lactose intolerant groups (such as groups from East Asia) into countries where such things are diagnosable.

[bnatural]

i'm really sorry to hear that.. maybe we're damned if we do damned if we don't..??
..i tend to go against the norm as you can tell..and just ask why??? Can I ask where the milk was consumed? and in what circumstances? THe motality rates of western kids is probably equal I would argue.. if not, then the side effects of being exposed to our way of live is much much higher.. autism, cancers, ADD, asthma.. just to name a few

[bnatural]

I think a little 'flilth' is better for our immune systems than putting so many chemicals into our skins scrubbing with dettol twenty times a day...thus leading to a toxic cocktail for our already weakened immune systems to deal with.. thus leading to a build up of toxins.. cancer....seems to create a lot of fear of germs etc ..fear fear fear.. we live in a world of fear.. why do do many people have obsessive compulsive disease these days ?..fear of germs..dirt.... it messes with peoples heads..

[rynosmum]

Let's please keep this thread on the original topic of Soy milk and product, not into a scare campaign on life and lifestyles in general.

[bnatural]

I agree.. LOL.. it's late and i'm tired and .. if somewhat annoyed I would say ha ha..better calm down before I get edited :ecomcity:
can I just add one more thing.. 'scare campaign'? see, fear again.. i'm kidding, I had to say it..don't hurt me.. :laughing:

[Beany]

bnatural: I am happy to discuss the scare mongering you are referring to regarding the Western lifestyle but, as rynosmum said, this thread was about something pretty different.

While I agree that some pro-biotic products in your diet are very beneficial to overall digestive health and that the eating of unrefined foods like flour and sugar will lead to a reduced likelihood of constipation, I do disagree (quite vehemently ;) ) that consumption of pasteurised milk leads to any increase in the rates of lactose intolerance.

[jessgray]

i always thought raw milk was more at risk of making you ill but had more health benfiets. which confuses me lol i'm lactose intolerant and so is my son. i think all the allergies are from the increase in presevatives and other junk in food.

[bnatural]

I guess there is so much info out there it can be confusing... perhaps no one really knows for sure...i'm just the type of person to stay clear of anything modified I guess... call me old world, a wacko what you will, I could be completely wrong about pasteurised milk leading to more lactose intolerant people.. it just seems to me, in my opinion, the more you fiddle around the more it is incompatable with the body, putting more strain on our systems, thus leading to illnesses, intolerances... etc etc.. as is the case in the many things we eat..

I really just wish we had the option, like in european countries.. they don't seem to get sick?! I'm only asking, and why is it they they seem to laying down laws to not even be able to sell your own fruit/veges at your gate (this was on the news a while ago, and farmers were up in arms) where is our freedom going? Where are our choices..? Aren't we old enough and wise enough to have the freedom to make our own choices?? Why do they still put flouride in our water without our concent when this is a toxic chemical.? Use scare tactics to vaccinate, when the stats we are given are incorrect.... We just seem to be in a big brother land and we don't even know it.... anyway i'm off on some other tangent here so i'll shut up :ecomcity: :confused: :laughing:
don't delete this one.. ill shut up now..

SO.. back to SOY!! yes.. not so good afterall is it? doesn't that make you wonder what else we are being lied to about?

ever heard of the saying 'tell a lie long enough and they'll believe it'
appreciate your views..as i'm sure you do mine.. ;)

[the_queen]

I think I'll go live on a commune in the bush, thanks for reviving my paranoia bnatural :p

I agree with you about the raw milk, it should be available. But I'm not sure I could just trust that it would be clean enough, IYKWIM. Ideally, me and my kids would live on a farm where we'd grow all our own meat and vege's, and have Bessie the cow providing us with fresh milk every day. But sadly I don't live in an ideal world.

[bnatural]

yeh I know.. i'll be your neighbour in farming queen...oh well it was worth a try.. from now on i'll only talk about the weather.. pretty cold here in melbourne

[jessgray]

i think if you can get all the other milk varities like lactose free, rice,goats etc why not raw for those who want raw?
how much chemicals are in soy milk anyone know?

[Funkychicken]

It's interesting to know that about Soy milk. When I weaned my DS#1 from breastmilk, we started with a bit of cows milk and he kept getting constipated so we switched to soy milk which didn't constipate him. But it was also 7 years ago and the country was in the grip of a 'You must drink Soy milk to be healthy' phase. It definately is true about telling a lie for long enough.:)

[xkwzit]

It also contains a phytoestrogens which mimic the effects of the female hormone oestrogen. If children are given too much SOY FORUMULA for example they can be receiving the equivalent of 5 birth control pills worth of oestrogen every day!!!

I recommend reading www.westonaprice.org on some stats on this if you are thinking of switching to soy formula.

You should only consume fermented soy products eg - organic miso or organic tempeh.

Perhaps try oats milk or rice milk as alternatives.



:eek:
I remember a story where a baby died of malnutrition because her parents were feeding her rice milk instead of breast milk or formula.
The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/05/17/1021544070623.html
Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/17/1021544073909.html

And a general warning:
http://www.mydr.com.au/default.asp?Article=3789

From what I've heard from parents on this site, they turn to soy formula as a last resort when their baby is diagnosed as lactose intolerant. I think that you need to clearly state whether you are recommending rice or oats milk for babies and toddlers (which I would believe to be incorrect and grossly irresponsible) or for adults. Please keep in mind that this is a parenting forum and some ppl may misinterpret the information that you supply, which might have deadly consequences, as shown in the news story above.

Cheers

[AppleBlossym]

Just wanted to say that I agree with what bnatural has said, and IMO I think that all these possibilities are linked.

Humans are the only species to drink milk after infancy and the only species to drink another animals milk!! Sounds so wrong when put like that:barf:

In regards to the cleanliness thing.....I was wondering who uses bench top antibacterial sprays?

Cos these things are NASTY! It is way healthier to use bi carb soda and hot water.

In our culture I think that corporations have pushed the "Being Clean" thing way too far. I mean they make A LOT of moula from it......:mad:

[cwsmum]

Humans are the only species to drink milk after infancy and the only species to drink another animals milk!! Sounds so wrong when put like that:barf:


Ewwww :barf: thanks for putting that in my head right before bedtime...I was discussing that with a friend a few weeks ago, she can't drink cows milk coz she hates the idea of where it comes from.

I definatly agree that alot of what we are 'told' that we 'need' to be healthy/have clean houses etc are just nasty chemicals...but no one is forcing anyone to use them.

Thanks bnatural for the info on soy...very interesting...just one more reason for me to ignore DH's cousin when she tells me how great it is :rolleyes:

[MonkeyMum05]

I definately have to agree on the hygiene issue... only problem is, that when the majority of society IS using anti-bacterial sprays etc... the germs and bugs are multiplying, getting stronger etc. to try and beat the current level of hygiene... aren't they?
So wouldn't that then put us who don't use chemicals at possible risk of catching some real nasty bugs??

Sorry, I know this is way off the original topic, but I am genuinely interested in someone answering this, as it is something that confuses me.

[AppleBlossym]

:no: No it would be waaayy less risky to use good ol bicarb soda and hot water.

I think the reason these bugs are getting strong, is beacause anti bacterials kill ALL bacteria including the good ones which are essential.

We all need some bugs:yes:

I for one am not planning on bringing my baby up in a sterile world, I don't vax and would like build him a nice srtong natural immune system

Waaayyy of topic, but glad to see some interest!:) :yelclap:

[Beany]

Humans are the only species to drink milk after infancy and the only species to drink another animals milk!! Sounds so wrong when put like that:barf:

Yes but consider the alternative: we are also the only omnivorous species to not eat animal bones and shells. We have to get our calcium somewhere.

[Sarie]

Yes but consider the alternative: we are also the only omnivorous species to not eat animal bones and shells. We have to get our calcium somewhere.
Exactly right!

[AppleBlossym]

There are PLENTY of other sources besides milk and we are NOT the only omnivourous species not to eat bones!:laughing:

[bnatural]

appleblossom I LOVE YOU! LOL thanks so much for your support! where have you been hiding??

americans consume large amounts of dairy have have the highest calcium deficiencies.. how do you explain that? asian counties who don't consume have low. calcium absorption requires adequate diettary magnesium, phosphorus and vita a and D (vit d = sunshine) vit d also = chlorophyll.. green foods.. all out in the sunlight..
calcitonin is a hormone which increases alcium in the bones ..magnesium stimulates calcitonin production.. and therefore increases calcium in the bones. So the key.. plenty of magenesium rich foods .. and greens (chlorophyll)

also.. homogenized milk leads to cholesterol.. the process allows the enzyme xanthine oxidase in the milk cream to enter the bloodstream instead of being excreted.. as would normally occur..

if you do decide to drink milk.. i would recommend to bring it to the boil first, this further breaks down the proteins and makes it alittle easier ot digest..pasteurized milk is not brought to the boil so doesn't break down the proteins..

anyway.. i tend to steer clear of it.. but each to their own..

with regards to the germ thing, i know we're not made to use the products.. thing is marketing is a very powerful tool.. did i mention the saying.. tell a lie long enough and people will believe it..?

[BigW]

Ok, so I thought that by boiling cows milk, yes you do break it down and make it easier to digest ..... however ...... you also deplete all the essential nutrients that you initially ingesting the cows milk for?!

I grew up on a farm, all natural, and drank milk straight from the cow from seven months old. I have no intolerance. I ate veges and fruit straight from our fields and vege patch, and lived pretty much the 'authentic' cave man diet as such. I have an auto immune disease now, and thyroid problems. It is due to genetic factors, not anything I may or may not have ingested.

Maybe the higher incidence of inter-cultural children due to the increased mobility of people worldwide in this day and age has more to do with intolerances etc than simple food choices alone.

Having said that, I would not touch soy milk with a barge pole, and certainly have no intention of feeding it to my son. I have heard of the studies whereby higher than acceptable oestrogen levels have been proven.

Also, the obsessive compulsive thing; my sister has anorexia and her obsessive behaviours have more to do with her warped sense of reality from this disease than the actual level of germs in this world.

Each to their own.

[bnatural]

And From what I've heard from parents on this site, they turn to soy formula as a last resort when their baby is diagnosed as lactose intolerant. I think that you need to clearly state whether you are recommending rice or oats milk for babies and toddlers (which I would believe to be incorrect and grossly irresponsible) or for adults. Please keep in mind that this is a parenting forum and some ppl may misinterpret the information that you supply, which might have deadly consequences, as shown in the news story above.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

I was referring this topic to general soy products.. did only mention baby formula near the end.. sorry if misunderstood.. recommend oats or rice to adults.
perhaps just reconsider giving a full soy formula diet..there are also other alternatives like, goats milk..yogurts, i've even heard of nut milks.. perhaps do your own research on these, or seek alternate advice..

[bnatural]

Also, the obsessive compulsive thing; my sister has anorexia and her obsessive behaviours have more to do with her warped sense of reality from this disease than the actual level of germs in this world.



with regards to this topic, i'm sure so many people will point out so many different behavours.. i'm talking the bigger picture here.. anyway if you don't want to question anything.. that's your business.

[bnatural]

..and i'd better clarify .. ..nuts and yogurts as supplements of course.. after 8months or so..goats formulas seem to be the best (in my opinion) and perhaps very high grade quality cows milk.. but you can't go past mummas milk! If you're lucky enough to have a good supply.. anyway.. best of luck to you all, and don't give up.. it's about doing your research.. [text deleted by moderator]