Advice wanted regarding surrogacy

[Brad]

Hello all, I am new to this forum, I pretty much needed some people to talk to regarding an issue that has come up in our family.

I am a proud father of 2 children, and was very happy with the way life was going.

Some friends of the family have recently approached my partner, with regards to being a surrogate, as they are unable to have children. Apartantly they have tried adopting, but were turned away as they are not married. Unfortunately the mother cannot provide an egg, so this puts my partner in the situation of being a donour mother which I find very confronting (I wouldn't be so negative if it wasn't her genes too).

Personally I am very much in disapproval of this happening, as I really feel for my children. They have wanted another brother or sister, and we decided that two was enough. I am not sure how they will cope emotionally if she has a baby between her and this other man, and then hands it over to another couple.

It also feels to me that my partner will be having a baby with another man, which is essence is the case. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on things I might not have considered, cause I am finding the whole issue very difficult to deal with.

I can see the positive sides of helping someone bring a child into the world, however I can see a lot of negatives as well, and implications for our existing children. The main problem is that I am against the idea, whereas my partner was offered 50k by this couple (which is criminal offense), and she is very keen on the money mainly. I agree commercial surrogacy should be illegal to stop people being put in this situation - we were easy prey as we aren't very well off.

Some other issues that come to mind is concern for my partner, if she will be able to cope emotionally handing over the baby. She also suffers badly from post-natal depression. So if she goes ahead with this, she will have the bearevment of loss handing over the baby, as well as post-natal depression. In her mind at the moment, she is blinded by the money, and thinks it will just be a 9 month thing, not a choice that will affect us all for the rest of our lives. She hasn't considered will she breast feed the baby, or will she see the baby once a month, or twice a year, or anything like that either.

I have done some research and found that surrogacy arrangements are not legally binding either. If this couple are having trouble adopting, would they be allowed to adopt this child, or will it always be in my partner's and this other man's name? The legal issues look really complicated.

What is the proceedure too? I am obviously opposed to the idea of this man sleeping with my partner. Is it done surgically, or do women use turkey basters?

Personally I am thinking of leaving my partner if she goes ahead with this, but I don't want to threaten this, as it will have affects on our kids. If it goes ahead though, I won't be supporting her through it though, and to be honest my loss of sex life has nothing to do with how I feel. I feel very strongly about this for the effects on her, our children, and myself. It is causing a lot of tension already between us. Has anyone got any suggestions here?

Am I being a 'stuck in the mud', or are my feelings valid. Has anyone got any ideas, opinions, or even point me in the right direction to help this other couple find another surrogate?

Thanks in advance :)

[Mitteny]

Firstly, Brad -
Of course your feelings are valid. Very much so! This is not a journey your wife would be taking on her own. Your feelings and views on the surrogacy are as important as hers.
You have also raised some very good points. Technically speaking, your wife is not a good candidate for surrogacy if it is going to affect her mental health or wellbeing.
A big reason commercial surrogacy is illegal is so that people who aren't well off financially - as you say your family is not - don't feel pressured into going through with a surrogacy that will harm the surrogate.
Generally speaking, if your wife would not do the surrogacy for free, she should not do it for the money - her physical and mental health should always come first. Also, she sounds like she stands a much higher chance of wanting to keep the baby after it is born, especially as genetically, it would be her child, and you say that she suffers from PND and would likely grieve the loss.
You have said you don't think your children would cope - have you told your wife you feel this way? It's important to remember your own children in this, especially if they are old enough to understand that mummy is pregnant but not that she won't be keeping the baby.

If she is a Traditional Surrogate (her own egg and this other mans sperm) there are several ways to impregnate her, without sexual intercourse. The surgical option is one way, home insemination with needle-less syringes (or turkey basters) is another, less guaranteed way.
The process of becoming pregnant in the first place can take months, or even years, and does disrupt the surrogates sex life considerably - no matter how you look at it, it is not likely to be "a 9 month thing".
It is not a matter of just falling pregnant and giving birth, there are all sorts of legal (and emotional) angles to consider, and most women who do choose to surrogate, choose to do so without being approached, whether because it is something they feel they want to do, or because a friend is childless and they want to help. Usually the decision takes considerable time and research, and in every case, they should have support from friends and family, and especially their partner. To have a husband who will not or can not support her through a surrogacy (and there isnt anything wrong with feeling like you can't) is a huge, insurmountable barrier to the whole thing.

Personally, I would say that your friends should seek out another surrogate, because nothing about your post would lead me to believe your wife is ideal for the job.
No matter how big the price tag, the cost is higher than the gain if she wouldn't have done this anyway.

As for helping your friends find other surrogates, there are a few on this site, and on other sites around the place. It can take time but it usually pays off if the couple is legit and can find someone who clicks.
I myself am hoping to be a surrogate for the right people one day (without the price tag.)

I hope everything works out for you, it can be really hard when money clouds judgment. I say good on you for putting your wife and kids first despite the money. It's good to know that there are people out there who don't sell out, even when they could use the cash. That isn't what the surrogacy journey is about.
I hope I've helped, at least a little - if not feel free to disregard, it's only my point of view, there are plenty of different ones out there.

Cheers
Emma

[crazymuma]

I don't really have any advice for you but I do agree with everything that has been said in the above post. You have full right to feel this way and this is not a decision a women should make without full support of her partner.

I would be really worried about a woman who suffers severe PND carrying a baby for another couple. Do you honestly think she will be able to hand the baby over and carry on with raising your children like nothing has happened??

I would also be looking into the legal side of it - I imagine if it is her egg then at any point she could turn around and decide to keep the baby - doing it for $$ will probably increase the risk of this happening. How would you cope if this happened?? Would she cope with another child??

I'm curious though you say the couple tried adoption but were turned away because they aren't married ?? Is there a reason they aren't married - surely that would be cheaper than paying someone to carry a baby for them.

I think all you can do at this point is maybe contact someone about the legal side of it all -how the other couple adopt (if possible not married), what would happen if she were caught (basically) selling her child,perhaps see if your partner will talk to a counsellor or doctor about it before she decides - I think knowing her history of PND they would probably try and talk her out of it.

[jackie7]

I'm curious though you say the couple tried adoption but were turned away because they aren't married ?? Is there a reason they aren't married - surely that would be cheaper than paying someone to carry a baby for them.

With many adoption programs you have to be married for a certain length of time and if it is a second marriage for any of the couple the time lengths are much longer......does this explain it a bit more? So they maybe be considering this angle of it.



If this couple are having trouble adopting, would they be allowed to adopt this child, or will it always be in my partner's and this other man's name? The legal issues look really complicated.


Basically what happens is a parenting order is put in place for the genetic male partner and a few years down the track a form of 'step-parent' adoption would take place - so not really the same as 'traditional' adoption - the birth mother would most likely need to relinquish legal custody of the child.


Brad I tend to come from this at the other side of it but also have a more complex background in different formats of family creation than you have thought about.

I can understand the money being appealing to your wife and personally I think there should be some form of payment. That said given your wife's PND history I don't think she is the best candidate, but not wholly terrible either because at least you would all be aware of it.

It is extremely difficult to find suitable people in Australia to undertake surrogacy and it would have taken every emotional ouch of energy the couple has to ask your family to do this.

That said in cases like this I would actually adcovate for this couple to consider looking at programs overseas or contacting a IVF clinic here to see if they are willing to do a donor egg program with a GS (gestational surro).

However at this stage the only donor egg and GS arrangement in Australia I have been aware of was with a polications wife (victoria/NSW).

If you like I can give you a link to a surro australian based group so you can explore some of the concerns you have on this topic.

[lostgirl]

Brad,

Ok firstly if anyone is going to tell your wife to go ahead it would be me as I am in the same boat as this couple and dearly want a child however that option lays in the hands of other ppl as I cannot have my own. In saying that I personally would not accept help from any person who requested payment as I believe anyone who is even considering assisting a couple in this way should be doing it because it is something they want to do. I agree with all medical and anything including like cloths etc being paid for by the couple by all means as that is part of the pregnancy and an expense that the indivudual assisting the couple should not have to pay.

I think you have a lot to think about including your own children. At this point just from what you have written as someone seeking the assistance of someone like yourselfs I would totally back away as It seems clear that your own family may be at risk by doing this simply for a few dollars.

To put your mind at rest in one aspect your wife would never have to sleep with this other male there are other medical ways for her to become preg.

I would put your whole deck of cards on the table with your wife and really tell her how you feel. At the end of the day the decision you reach has to be one that you both agree with otherwise this could be something that hangs over your relationship in the future.

All the best with the decision.

Julie

[Elestrial]

There is no way I would do this.
As you say, this would end up being your wifes child, and if you don't think you could handle knowing that she had a child with another man, then she shouldn't do it. She is your wife and partner and this is a life decision. That said - how would you feel if she was a surrogate using someone else's eggs? Then it wouldn't be her baby? She really needs to consider her emotional ability to disconnect from this child once it's born. You have already said that your family is complete as it is, so what effect will it have to have another baby as part of that mix?

You need to be honest with your wife about this. But remember, talk about how you feel and what you think could happen - don't project onto her. Say "I am worried that you could become overly attatched to this baby and that would affect our family" rather than "you're going to get depressed over giving this baby back". Or "I would feel very unhappy knowing that you were having someone elses baby" Your post is great, but in my experience men don't talk like that in real life - your wife Needs to know how you feel. She especially needs to know this is a "deal breaker" for you and could affect your future relationship.

Good luck

[Brad]

Thank you very much for your very insightful answers, and kind words, God Bless you all! I really appreciate the time and thought that went into your responses.

I also appreciated all of the responses coming from a slightly different angle. I haven't got a lot of time right now, but wanted to thank each and everyone of you for your thoughts, I read each post very cafefully. Each post had a gem of wisdom for me to consider.

Generally I was happy to know that my feelings were valid, and that it is a serious decision that would affect the whole family longterm as well (rather than just a 9 month decision). I was glad to know that there were a variety of ways that my wife could be pregnant (which helped the inner primal male in me, hehe). I was also happy to know that it is possible to use a donated egg. I feel this would resolve most of the emotion problems for all of the family, as well as the possible attachment issues my wife may have after birth. To be honest, yes, I think we could all handle it better if the potential child wasn't a natural child of my wife.

You are probably right too Jackie, that it might of been hard for this couple to approach us. I took this couple the wrong way at first, thinking we would do this for finacial reasons, but to be honest it would only cover expenses and loss of work, so it isn't really that much. My wife does genuinely want to help this couple too. Thank you too for mentioning advocacy and other groups, if things go any further I will be in touch.

Anyway I would like a little time to consider your responses more carefully, cause I don't have a lot of time at the moment, and not living at home this week. Give me a little time and I will reply back here over the next week or so.

Thanks again to all of you, I really appreciate your time and thoughts, it means a lot to me.

[Brad]

I forgot to say that I appreciated that all of my questions were answered too :)

Thanks again, I just need a little time to think about the things you have all said.

[jackie7]

Good luck Brad and it is wonderful (if a bit emotionally painful) for us to see someone from the prespecitve your coming from and I personally would say a 'couple' being a surrogate need to be in it together 100%.

If it's not right for your family I would say not to go ahead. Maybe encourage them to explore some of the other options as overseas situations - interestingly it might even cost them less than what they were considering paying you guys.

Good luck and your welcome to contact me any time if you are exploring this or even want to pass some other links onto this couple.

[Brad]

Hello again all, many months went by and I thought I would finish by saying how it all worked out.

Just as things were looking like this couple and my partner were starting to organise this surrogacy, it must of put a lot of pressure on this other couple's relationship too. It turns out that the couple has since split up after at least 10 years, amicably thankfully. I feel for them as it seems to have been their last attempt to have children, and it put a lot of pressure on their relationship too. So it was all stopped in its tracks there.

Even though it is now over, at the time it was very serious, and I feel this issue put a lot of pressure on the relationship with my partner. I really wanted to thank you all for your support which I found great on a personal level, and your information so that I was able to advise my partner properly. I must say I found this situation as a male partner of a "potential surrogate" quite uncomfortable. I have learned how precious children are when you don't have the option many of us take for granted though, and empathise with others here. I wish you all all the best, and thank you again for your support and advice at the time.

[lifes4living]

I think all you can do at this point is maybe contact someone about the legal side of it all -how the other couple adopt (if possible not married), what would happen if she were caught (basically) selling her child,perhaps see if your partner will talk to a counsellor or doctor about it before she decides - I think knowing her history of PND they would probably try and talk her out of it.

From my own research for Victoria not only is paying someone illegal, but also there is stringent counselling process that has to be gone through for both the surrogate and commisioning parents (when going through the appropriate channels of course), plus there are forms which are required to be filled out buy, both commission parents, the surrogate and the surrogates partner. I know you obviously love your family Brad, but maybe you need to look into the legalities of it all and find out what your rights are