4 mo, new to formula and wind problems

[Lily_Pad]

I've been wondering why DD will only drink 80 mls of her bottle, and then start screaming in pain for about ten minutes. Sometimes she burps, sometimes she doesnt. She also arches her back a lot. Why did it take me this long to realise its wind :doh:
I'm wondering if I should offer some gripe water, or something similiar - something I can give her before a feed so that she can drink the amount she needs?
I'm very worried about it because in a month she has lost 800 grams :(
What are your experiences?

[LeeJ]

thats a fairly substantial loss over a month.
have to keep this short, try something like infants freind or infacol,
the othe thing is it may be a little relux, i will pop back later, im sure the others will be in soon;)

[Lily_Pad]

Thanks tommo.
Do I get infants friend from the chemist, do I have to see a dr first?

Sorry I didn't mean to type 800, she lost 700. That's still quite a lot... my MCHN wasn't concerned. Apparantly she is on the lower end of the average range.

Should I be worried she's only drinking 80ml?

[LeeJ]

at 4 months, yes, 80ml is not really enough
what does she weugh now?

once again, typing on handed, soz 4 spelling mistakes!

infants freind from chemist, its 'natural'-not medicated, so no need to see doc about that, but prob worth seeing them over milk intake, or mchn, do u no how much she is taking a day?

[Lily_Pad]

She feeds about 5 times a day, so 400ml all up. Put that way it definitely doesn't sound like enough... at first I thought it could have been because she was just getting used to formula.

She's weighing 5.3 kilos.

I'll get some infants friend tonight and hopefully that settles her tummy and she can drink a bit more...

[LeeJ]

the formula hospys use is
weight x 150/bottles per day
5.3 x 150/5 = 160ml per bottle (around 800ml per day)
take into account, all bubs being differnet, but you would want her to be taking b/w 700-1000 per day, so 400, it is too little.

does she spew?
does she scream inconsolobly?
were you having these troubles on breastmilk?
what formula are you on?
did you tell MCHN how much she is taking? it should have rung alarm bells for her.

reflux can make them not want to drink, cause every time they do, it hurts, so they take less and less.
did she start off taking more, then get less?
what was the reason for changing to formula?

(dont think i am judging a change, i've had to FF Josh since 1 week old)

[Lily_Pad]

I just had a look at the reflux info sheet and these describe DD's behaviour:

irritability / excessive crying
appearing to be in pain
feeding problems

refusal to feed or only taking a small amount despite being hungry
comfort feeding - feeding frequently
pulling away and arching their back
crying during or after feeds
difficulty swallowing
gagging/spluttering
sleeping issues

catnapping during the day
frequent night waking (though some refluxers do sleep well at night)
easily disturbed from sleep
wheezing/coughing
failure to thrive
recurrent chest infections

Probably should have had a look at that first... :p
Is infants friend for reflux or wind?
I have some infant gaviscon in the cupboard. I might give that a try before her next feed... But it says two doses to be mixed into not less than 225ml of each feed, and her bottles are made to 200ml :confused:

[Lily_Pad]

the formula hospys use is
weight x 150/bottles per day
5.3 x 150/5 = 160ml per bottle (around 800ml per day)
take into account, all bubs being differnet, but you would want her to be taking b/w 700-1000 per day, so 400, it is too little.

does she spew?
does she scream inconsolobly?
were you having these troubles on breastmilk?
what formula are you on?
did you tell MCHN how much she is taking? it should have rung alarm bells for her.

reflux can make them not want to drink, cause every time they do, it hurts, so they take less and less.
did she start off taking more, then get less?
what was the reason for changing to formula?

(dont think i am judging a change, i've had to FF Josh since 1 week old)

She doesn't spew, but she is very irritable. She screams inconsolably after a feed. We were using heinz, but changed to karicare to see if that made a difference.

She did start off having about 100, the most she's ever taken is 140.

I switched her to formula because she got quite sick a couple of months ago and was in hospital. That ruined my milk supply and she was just feeding all the time and losing weight. Plus the stress didn't help, I was just sick and tired all the time and felt like formula would help us both be happier and healthier. But she never had reflux when she was breastfed :o

[LeeJ]

i found infant gaviscon useless, and the mix qauntity is very funny (hard to use on munchkins not taking much milk)
it thickens the feed, so it helps to stay in the belly and not come up the throat, and burning.

do you have regular gaviscon? or mylanta, in liquid form? it may be worth giving that a try, giving around a ml after a feed, you'll see quite quickly if thats the problem, i found J got refleif in about half an hour after having adult gaviscon.

I would definatley be going back to the dock, she has reduced her feeds considerably, and you may need medical intervention to help her get back on track (she now relates feeding with pain)

infants freind doesnt really help reflux, but if she has wind, that makes reflux worse, so if you get rid of the wind, it can help, does that make sense?

[LeeJ]

breastmilk is best for refluxers, it digests quicker, so doesnt cause AS many probs, but in saying that, there are PLENTY of BF bubs that have quite severe reflux, so take it with a grain of salt hey.

when did all this start happening? it may not have been the formula, some bubs dont develop symptoms till a certain time.
ah, which karicare is she on?

oh, reflux doesnt HAVE to mean spew, it may be silent reflux, so it comes up her thraot, but doesnt make it out, but still burns.

[Lily_Pad]

I'm pretty sure it's the formula - it's just the regular karicare - we started ff last friday and this all started on saturday. I will give the infant gaviscon a go with her next feed... if that doesn't help, i'll try adult gaviscon. So you give the gaviscon after a feed, does that give them enough releif to take a full bottle the next feed?

And I've rang my MCHN and left her a message, hopefully she will get back to me soon.

Thankyou so much for your help :) She's my first and I don't really have anyone around who's got experience with babies!

[LeeJ]

Thats ok, we started on the rollercoaster when Josh was a week and a half old, so its all i've relly known;)

try the infants one, but dont hold your heart on it;)
the adult one is more to tell if it is reflux, is she finds releif after her feed, it will mean she is more likely to be able to have more as time goes on. the adult one acts as a barrier above the food in her belly, helping to stop it rising into the osophegus.

unfortunatly different formulas can make it worse, its trial and error, but its a VERY long process, cause you should stay on a formula for at least 2 weeks to see the full effect (their body has to adjust to it)
in the same respect, their little bodies cant handle being changed, so if you trust your MCHN, get her opinion on formula.

after alot of research, the highest recommended one by peads, ect, is Nan HA, so if you do change, give that a try, it is pricey though.
the HA means its partially digested, which helps their littles bodies to digest it.

sorry to give you so much info! at once!