View Full Version : Help please!! Need advice asap
Hi all
We started CC 2 nights ago. DD currently has 1-3 bottles during the night, I want to wean her off them because I think it is from habit.
So, first night she woke at 3, and I went in to comfort her at intervals, checked she was ok.
She cried for over 2 hours, and was very upset, so at 5am I gave her a bottle.
Second night- (last night) she woke at 3, did the interval thing, and 3 HOURS later she was still crying. So I then gave her the bottle.
What am I doing wrong? Should I not have given her the bottle?? Could she be hungry? What should I do tonight!?
She is self settling at nap times (mostly) and at bed time at night, so not sure what the problem is..
Help! I dont know what to do and am so tired.
Man there are some tough babies out there! You've gotta be proud of them though! My advice would be to leave her for 90 mins max then feed and straight back to bed. I think maybe after that they could work up an appetite and actually cry not because they want you but because they're genuinely hungry!
Have you tried a rollover feed (dream feed)?
How old is she?
Thanks so much for your reply Lupa!
She is 7 months old tommorow. She has a feed at 6.30pm, bed at 7, and then a dreamfeed at 10.30pm. So you would think she wouldnt be hungry!
But I hadnt even thought that she might be working up an appetite crying! Do you think waiting 90 mins she might learn not to cry still?
Could I try moving her bed time to 7.30 do you think? Or leave it at 7....
no leave her bed time at 7, that's perfect.
Try waiting 90 mins, feed then down to sleep. Try and make sure she's awake when you put her down, I know it's hard at that time of the morning. It's important that she's in her cot when she goes to sleep, not your arms. Don't play with her, just do things to let her know that it's time for bed not to be awake.
Let me know if the 90 min thing doesnt work. That's how I did it during the day, I don't know about how it goes at night. Hmm...
thanks! During the day she self settles, well with me going in once or twice to put the dummy in!
How do I keep her awake when she has her bottle? Lol! That is hard! :)
If she falls asleep there's nothing you can do. Just practice that part during the day maybe. If she falls asleep in your arms, when she wakes up she'll want to fall back asleep in your arms... you get the picture.
You, a feed, dummy etc are currently the cues to go back to sleep. You need to set ones, like a clean nappy, her own cot, night light, whatever special things she has, (things that aren't to do with you) so that when she wakes up and you're not there, she still feels comfortable enough to go back to sleep.
Hi, just thought id pop in and give you my 2 cents!
I took my DD to tresillian at the start of april (she was just 12 months). They told me there that if your still trying to get her to sleep after 1hr, then get her up change nappy (just to make sure she is dry/comfy) or instead you can just pat her to sleep or you could give her a bottle - even just a half bottle. After one hour they said she will just be getting herself worked up and upset which makes the self-settling even harder.
It does work, it had with my DD its been brilliant! (except for right atm due to teeth, but thats a whole other story! lol)
At Tresillian we got rid of 1-2 night bottles + dummy & she learnt how to self settle. So stick with it and i assure you it will pay off!!
oh Sara thank you!! That is just what I wanted to hear. I can deal with 1 hour, you are so right she just gets too worked up and wont go back to sleep!
Im so happy to hear it worked for you! How long did it take for her to drop her bottle?
Oh thanks glad that helped!
Well..... before we went to tresillian, she was having one bottle for breakfast, one after lunch, one at bedtime (which she would fall asleep having - then have to lay in my arms for around 30 mins to be able to put into bed!) and one during the night. I was giving her one during the night pretty much only because i knew she would go back to sleep!!
And by the time we left tresillian (we stayed there 5 nights), she was having a sippy cup of milk with breakfast & one bottle half hour before bedtime.... thats it!!
I also forgot to say we were cosleeping as well before tresillian (again only cos i knew she would sleep when she was in bed with me!).... and when we left she was 100% in her own cot!!
Ive heard "they" say if you do the same routine (in your case be super strong and dont give them a middle of the night bottle) for 3 days in a row, they understand that that is the new routine. IYKWIM?
So Sara when she wakes in the night I should try to resettle for an hour and if she doesnt sleep, then give her half a bottle?
justme77
14-06-2009, 17:00
I used the "contented baby" book with #3 when he was a baby, and her approach is that basically its a wholistic approach to the entire day rather then just the night times.
for a 7 month old :
*they shouldnt be having more then 3 hours sleep during the day.
* should be having at least 2-3 solid meals a day
*should be having at least 3 milk feeds a day
its more about establishing a good routine during the day also.
*baby shouldnt sleep at all after 2:30pm
*feeding by 6:30pm
*baby should be awake by 7am to start the day.
i loved this book, and had a great experience with luke as a baby using it, and he is still now a non demanding toddler.
Cos my DD was 12 months when i did the whole tresillian controlled crying thing, the 'rules' might be different, im not sure?
With my DD the longest she ever took to settle was 45mins, and when it hit the 45 minute mark i would pat her to sleep - id just pat her bum while she was lying down in her cot. So i actually never had to give her a bottle during the night. Although that was one of the questions i asked them, so yeah they said dont do it for more than one hour.
At the one hour mark, get them up so they relax a bit and change nappy, sip of water or whatever to calm, them down and then once they are relaxed, start all over again. But if your bub is used to having 1-3 bottles a night, then maybe half a bottle for a few days so they are slowly weaned off IYKWIM.
So to answer your question.... i would TRY to resettle for up to an hour, then you can either -
> pat her totally off to sleep like i did for the first few days
> get her up sip of water/nappy change - cuddles so she knows your there for her and its ok
> Or if its getting beyond a joke and you just need her to sleep (so you can! lol) give her half a bottle.
That is just what i would do.... If you are wanting to remove the night time bottle, which you are, i would be trying everything first, giving her a bottle is your last option.
I know its really hard though, and terrible when all YOU want to do is sleep!!
When you go in give her a pat, and tell her "its ok, come on, its sleep time sshhhh" (or whatever you say to comfort her when you go in to settle her down), just make sure YOU are very settled and calm yourself! they can sense everything!!
And finally, if you really have no luck once you have tried, i would strongly recommend going to tresillian or somewhere similar. They are great, the people there are just lovely!
Best of luck tonight.... I know what its like, its really hard... im thinking of you! :)
Thanks Justme that is very inetresting, the only thing I am not doing there is last sleep at 2.30pm
thank you so much Sara. Your response is really helpful, and when she wakes I will open this webpage and read it for support! lol.
I agree with everything you have said. Unfortunately my DD doesnt like to be patted to sleep, if I stay there she wakes and gets worse.
So tonight I will do the nappy change and water thing. Then half bottle if she gets hysterical.
I will probably post in here in the middle of the night lol. I need to talk to someone at that time I guess! Even if no response, it is kind of like a diary, and when I listen to her crying I come on the internet. Only way to get through it.
Oh, I wish I could go to tresillian...but Im not in Syd :(
Ok well she has woken at 2am- a whole hour earlier than usual. And she is really upset! Screaming her lungs out. I am too tired for this!
reAllytee
15-06-2009, 02:28
I used the "contented baby" book with #3 when he was a baby, and her approach is that basically its a wholistic approach to the entire day rather then just the night times.
for a 7 month old :
*they shouldnt be having more then 3 hours sleep during the day.
* should be having at least 2-3 solid meals a day
*should be having at least 3 milk feeds a day
its more about establishing a good routine during the day also.
*baby shouldnt sleep at all after 2:30pm
*feeding by 6:30pm
*baby should be awake by 7am to start the day.
i loved this book, and had a great experience with luke as a baby using it, and he is still now a non demanding toddler.
OMG ...
I cannot even fathom the idea of demanding a baby of only 7mths old to starve itself through the nite because they must be eating that much through the day & also only allow it to sleep 3hrs through the day :(
I am sorry but please feed your baby, she is only young & she needs to be fed & she needs to be cuddled :(
Gosh I still often gave my DS1 a bottle through the nite at 12mths if he needed it & its only recently that my DS2 who is 22mths gave up a feed through the nite.
Not every baby is a text book child & sorry but them not sleeping through is normal, very very normal. My DS2 is 22mths & still doesnt sleep through & nor does my 4yr old for that matter !!!!
They arent being 'strong willed' or sly or anything of that nature, they are babies. Babies need to feed through the nite because they are growing & developing ! Not giving them access to a feed means depriving them of something they need to grow. Yes it may seem like she gets enough being that she has a dream feed but the fact that she is still waking then that tells me she needs it.
If she were over 18mths of age I would say yeah fair enough start getting a little tough but at this age ...
Wow.
I reckon feed bubbas as they need it -but then again - I've never ff fed either of my children...
My thoughts - if the child is asking for food - give it...
Sleep deprivation is cra@p, but ignoring it is worse
JadeyBaby2
15-06-2009, 05:10
If she goes to bed 7pm and is waking 3am it's been 8 hrs and perfectly reasonable for you to expect that she is hungry at that time. 8-10hrs is the expectation for babies this age. My DD goes to bed 7.30/8pm and has her last feed right before bed time and wakes 4am ish - sometimes she has gone a bit longer, but there's no way she is going back to sleep if I leave her - even if she doesn't get worked up she'll whinge at 5minute intervals and keep me up anyways. Sounds like your DD is going great! Keep up the good work. By 9/10mths I bet she'll have extended that morning feed and if she is still doing it you can try address doing more about it at that time.
ReAllyTee - This is a pro controlled crying thread, sorry but you won't find anyone who thinks the same as you here. That's why we who believe in CC can come in here - to talk to others who also have done / are doing and believe in the benefits of CC. - I feel as parents we have that responsiblity to make sure they are getting enough sleep and learn how to sleep. I make sure my nearly 6yo who started school this year gets his 11hrs a night as recommended in order for him to function at as high a level as possible, and I believe it is only working for me because of my strict bed time routines and CC techniques used. Also, if I am to be the parent I want to be I need my sanity and to be able to function day to day.
Justme77 - wow - my DD doesn't fit any of that really! I certainly wouldn't expect a 7mth old to only have 3 hrs of sleep during the day and awake from 2.30pm - no way my DD would make it, I'd be trying to prop her eyes open with toothpicks!!! lol
My advice - DO YOUR RESEARCH. YOU know yourself and your baby best and there are lots of different CC techniques that can be used. Only one or two will probably suit the current situation you are in and what sort of a person you are......all the best.
I have used my comp as my distraction also. Works well.
Ok, We're going back to bed now. KUP.
readytogo
15-06-2009, 05:11
I feel you pain!!
DD is 4months and I have had to go back to work :(
she was waking 2-3 times a night for a feed and DD is formula fed. I tried the leave her or put the dummy back in and neither worked she got so upset she had the darn dog howling in the end too!
There is nothing worse having to get up and never sleeping more that 5hrs at time especially if you are back at work.
We changed a few things to get her to sleep and now she goes down between 7-9ish depending on her day and what shift I have to work, she will them only wake at 5/6 for her first feed. For the first feew times when she would wake overnight I would take out of her room into the lounge where it was nice and warm and had only the lamp on so no bright lights no playing very quiet and feed her once she had burped a few times it was straight back to her cot dummy in and light out. I found it hard to avoid 'talking' to her too much and after a few days she self settled really well.
The only thing i dont do is a bum change because she's in cloth and it isnt needed unless she pooped but even then she poops at 10am every day!
I also will leave her for 30min if she wakes before 4am to see and 9/10 times she'll go back to sleep till 7ish.
DD isnt on solids yet so cant comment there on how many bottles/solids per day etc.
I hope you had a settled night and if your wondering why I am typing this now its because I'm at work!! Just called DP and DD has slept from 9 till now and will be woken shortly for her feed and day care :)
JadeyBaby2
15-06-2009, 06:45
P.S. Go to bed when your DD does! Makes for a lack of relax time before bed, but worth it! Ever since I brought DD home from hospital I've gone to bed when she does and it's really helped.
Jadey she has a dream feed at 11. She wont go longer than 4 hours without a feed. Last night was 3 hours between feeds! I dont know any other baby at 7 months that cant last longer than 4 hours.
If she was going from 7-3 Id be more than happy with that. But she starts crying for a bottle at 10pm.
Jadey I go to bed during the day when she has her tiny cat naps lol. But at night theres no way Im going to bed at 7 lol.
Readytogo, there is a rocker in her room, so for night feeds I have always gone in there, no lights (just a night light) no talking and fed her. She rarely even opens her eyes.
So last night I kept going in for 1 hour, then fed her. I think if she wakes before 4 hours Ill do this. Last night she had a massive feed at 11, then woke at 2 !
Hi Mique
Have you considered that maybe your DD has silent reflux? This could be being made worse by the fact that she wants to eat so much because when she is feeding it makes her feel better, but then after she wakes up crying because the reflux hurts so she wants another drink to 'soothe' it? I say silent reflux because I am guessing your daughter isn't bringing up any of her feeds? My best friend's DD2 had this - once it was diagnosed and she could remedy this through some medication and a heavier formula, it was like she had a new baby!!!
indigoin0z
15-06-2009, 08:36
Hi Mique
Have you considered that maybe your DD has silent reflux? This could be being made worse by the fact that she wants to eat so much because when she is feeding it makes her feel better, but then after she wakes up crying because the reflux hurts so she wants another drink to 'soothe' it? I say silent reflux because I am guessing your daughter isn't bringing up any of her feeds? My best friend's DD2 had this - once it was diagnosed and she could remedy this through some medication and a heavier formula, it was like she had a new baby!!!
:thumbsup:
i would like to cowardly agree with this.
i read the thread and wanted to say it, but didnt want to be accused of saying it just because i dont agree with cc.
our ds#3 had/has silent reflux & it is excruciatingly painful for them & us as parents..
[not that i use medication... but thats another story..:rolleyes:]
Hmmm what is the heavier formula?
Sorry Mique - I actually not sure on that, but I am pretty sure there is a section here for mums of reflux bubs and I have no doubt they will be able to help you! It might not be the case, but what is happening with your DD sounds exactly the same as what happened to my best friends so I thought perhaps it might be worth investigating as obviously if bubs is in pain CC isn't going to work at this point in time for either of you!! (Not saying that against CC here, just meaning that it might be a completely seperate issue if that makes sense).
Here is a website you check out for more info on silent reflux if you need to. http://www.reflux.org.au/characteristics.php
Good luck - I hope that you and your DD get a good night's sleep soon!!!
JadeyBaby2
15-06-2009, 10:29
lol - I'm an early nighter though and always have been .......so it's easy for me to say and do :-)
Hmmmmm, have you tried the 13health number? the Child Health Nurses are fabulous and have gotten me through many a tough time. I was given the CC technique I use with DD by them.
Could be silent reflux, however is there a similar problem during the day? Is she restless and seemingly uncomfortable and crying a lot? You could try raising the head of the cot mattress. Get it diagnosed properly of course first, there is a reflux formula you can buy and special bottles also that help if that is what she has.
All else failing I would be trying to get in touch with tresillian sleep clinic that you can go and stay at for a few nights.
See she seems fine most of the time in the day. Although we have some days where she cries alot and seems uncomfortable.
Thanks so much for the information! I think Ill ring the health nurse and maybe book in to see the GP.
Jadey gosh if I went to bed at 7pm Id be fine, not tired at all! lol
reAllytee
15-06-2009, 10:56
ReAllyTee - This is a pro controlled crying thread, sorry but you won't find anyone who thinks the same as you here. That's why we who believe in CC can come in here - to talk to others who also have done / are doing and believe in the benefits of CC. - I feel as parents we have that responsiblity to make sure they are getting enough sleep and learn how to sleep. I make sure my nearly 6yo who started school this year gets his 11hrs a night as recommended in order for him to function at as high a level as possible, and I believe it is only working for me because of my strict bed time routines and CC techniques used. Also, if I am to be the parent I want to be I need my sanity and to be able to function day to day.
I can see what section it is in thanks :)
It doesnt mean I cant post something that says that I think bubs needs attention especially when screaming for so long.
I am not against CC when used correctly & when not used on a child under the age of 10mths.
I just dont believe in putting unneccessary demands on such a young child, they are only babies once & you cant get that time period back. I also think its safe to say something isnt working especially when they are screaming for hours on end.
I cant see how someone saying " this isnt working right now what else can I do " & be offered other advice at this point causing anyone harm.
BabelFish
18-06-2009, 19:24
Can I just ask - when you `leave' them for 90 minutes, are you actually leaving them alone that whole time or are you going in and trying to soothe them at any point through that time?
Hey Mique
Just wanted to see how you were going? Is your DD sleeping better through the night now?
Hope it's all going well and you are both getting some rest!
Hi
thanks for asking! I rang the maternity nurse and she told me I wasnt giving DD enough milk in the day, so she told me to try giving her more and to see if that improves her sleep....so far not much improvement!:no:
BabelFish
22-06-2009, 20:01
I'd check on the silent reflux thing, too. My daughter had it and luckily we picked it up early - but it's very painful and I'd hate for you to feel that you've been leaving your daughter to scream when actually she's in pain. There's not such obvious symptoms with silent reflux but it can be very nasty and that's what always affected DD's sleep. She was never left to cry though and with medication it sorted itself out in a few days.
Hi
thanks for asking! I rang the maternity nurse and she told me I wasnt giving DD enough milk in the day, so she told me to try giving her more and to see if that improves her sleep....so far not much improvement!:no:
Hey Mique
I am sorry to hear that - must be tough getting no sleep as well as trying to keep your DD happy. Are you in Brisbane? I know a really good medical centre with great GP's, (a couple of them I believe used to specialise in paed's). Perhaps it is worth getting the silent reflux thing checked out? It's not going to be great for either of you if these sleepless nights keep happening! I am not trying to be pushy or nosey here so I hope it doesn't come across as that - but sleep deprivation can be a killer, and I am worried that you yourslef will start to suffer soon! (Could be because I am TERRIBLE on little sleep. I tend to get very moody and down)
Urban Tumbleweed
13-07-2009, 12:41
I successfully used CC with my son who is now 7 months old from the age of 2 weeks. He slept through the night from 6 weeks old and still now sleeps from 7pm till 7am. Have things improved for you Mique? :)
BabelFish
13-07-2009, 22:21
I'm really, REALLY not meaning to sound accusatory but from everything I've read on CC, even the experts recommend not to use it under six months of age. Did you modify it for your little tiny baby?
I mean, babies that age only have tummies the size of their little fists, which is pretty much why they don't sleep through - and shouldn't. My DD used to sleep for six-hour stretches as a newborn, too, and has been sleeping through for as long as I can remember - but the midwives used to tell me to wake her to feed her. Not very likely - she was gaining plenty of weight, lots of wet nappies, the whole drill. She was just an awesome sleeper from birth and always has been. I've never left her to cry though (or even considered it) especially not under 12 weeks of age. And I'm glad I never did because she had reflux so she would have been crying from pain more than anything else.
But I've never had to deal with a baby who wouldn't sleep, so I can't speak from experience from that POV. That's why I was wondering why you started it so early.
Urban Tumbleweed
14-07-2009, 07:17
We had a baby sleep consultant who also practices as a midwife at one of the hospitals down here in Tas visit our home for the day to develop a program for our little man. She developed our routine based on his young age and therefore we would only let him cry for a couple of minutes before we would go in - we would just put him into his bassinet awake and go in and resettle him every couple of minutes but if he wasnt asleep after 20 minutes then we would stay in there and rock his bassinet till he went to sleep, because by then he would be getting overtired.
We ALWAYS got up and fed him during the night, he slept next to our bed in his bassinet until he was a few months old. He would wake once during the night for his feed and after he had that we put him back in his bassinet awake and he would drift straight off to sleep without crying. We never had to do the CC at night because as soon as it got dark he just seemed to know that it was sleeping time.
From 6 weeks old he stopped waking through the night - could be something to do with the fact that we started FF from around 4 weeks? When he started sleeping through we just made sure he was getting all of his bottles during the day because he wasn't waking through the night :)
Chesby05 I did the CC when she was 7 months....I didnt do it before she was 6 months? Were you referring to me?
After all that, we are not doing the cc. I cannot do it on my own at night, I know that much, so I will probably put my name down at a sleep school.
She is still waking twice a night for a bottle...
Urban Tumbleweed
14-07-2009, 10:28
Chesby05 was referring to me Mique. I hope your little bub's sleeping improves whichever route you choose to take :)
I think maybe the reason my little man adapted so quickly and easily to our new routine is because we did start when he was so little, we didn't have to break any tricky habits.
lol oops sorry, that'l teach me for skimming through the thread! :laughing:
You are right about the habits, it is harder to break when they are older and more aware. DD formed some bad habits when she was sick....so hard to break!
BabelFish
15-07-2009, 12:43
We had a baby sleep consultant who also practices as a midwife at one of the hospitals down here in Tas visit our home for the day to develop a program for our little man. She developed our routine based on his young age and therefore we would only let him cry for a couple of minutes before we would go in - we would just put him into his bassinet awake and go in and resettle him every couple of minutes but if he wasnt asleep after 20 minutes then we would stay in there and rock his bassinet till he went to sleep, because by then he would be getting overtired.
We ALWAYS got up and fed him during the night, he slept next to our bed in his bassinet until he was a few months old. He would wake once during the night for his feed and after he had that we put him back in his bassinet awake and he would drift straight off to sleep without crying. We never had to do the CC at night because as soon as it got dark he just seemed to know that it was sleeping time.
From 6 weeks old he stopped waking through the night - could be something to do with the fact that we started FF from around 4 weeks? When he started sleeping through we just made sure he was getting all of his bottles during the day because he wasn't waking through the night :)
That's awesome isn't it? My DD only woke once during the night for a feed, too (we were SO lucky) and she used to fall asleep on the boob and I'd just pop her back in her cradle and off she went. It was heaven!
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