How to tell people (politely?) where to get off…

[kacey]

I’m so frustrated about a continual problem I face with people around me, and my hubby is not really able to help as he encounters none of it first hand, and he is heaps laid back too. (Not like uptight little me)
Any ideas? Here goes…
Warning – this is a long rant!

We’re ttc, but only recently started, and I have PCOS, so we’re expecting it to take a while. We’ve been married 4 years, and we attend church each week. At our old church it was a real baby factory – in their 15 years there had never been a week without at least one soon-to-be mum in the bulletin, sometimes as many as 5 women all pg at once! Many weeks I’d get asked about when I’m planning to have kids, every time I picked up a kid to say hi or have a cuddle I’d get asked if I’m practicing (for being a mum, I suppose), just incessant commentry on my life. Grrrrr! I didn’t know I had PCOS then, and I was busily studying, and had no immediate plans, but this *$@& made me really angry! Soon we were the ONLY married couple under 45 without children. Imagine the pressure! I progressed from polite dismissive comments to outright rude comments to shut these people up. :mad:

We changed churches because I was not well, but I was glad to change to a much smaller church without all the questions. Only one other young married couple. Soon they announced they were pg. Sigh! But no questions. Joy! Now their bub is almost a month old, and it’s starting again. Or maybe I’m paranoid? My hubby is a gem with kids, and on meeting the bub for the first time he requested a cuddle. A man walked past and said to me, “So, is he practicing?” I could have decked him!!! I just fobbed him off with a casual “Whatever”, but inside I was seething. Then I ran into a lady down the street. I am losing heaps of weight, but I still have a little podge on my belly. I must’ve been wearing something which accentuated my podge, because she comments “So, it’s good to see you so well lately. Anything exciting to explain that?”Are we kidding? Gosh, I wonder what she meant by that? Makes me really angry. :mad:

Look, I’m not bagging the church. I love our church, feel really at home there, it’s like family. People who genuinely care about each other. It’s just that a few insensitive comments really upset me, and I don’t know how to respond without anger. It’s hard to see each comment as isolated, in my mind they are all stacked on top of each other, building on the insensitivity of the last. Mind you, the PCOS isn’t helping either. :(

I had a whinge to one friend who said it’s because we’re relatively old (26/27) and we’ve been married for a long time (4.5 years) that the comments are coming. I guess it’s true, in church circles people get married and have kids in their early 20s. We got married at 22, but no babies yet. I didn’t think the old stereotype still existed of the old ladies getting around gossiping about when the young marrieds were to start reproducing. Maybe it does still exist, and maybe I’m falling victim to it, but those giving me grief are not all old.

Oh, and today I find out that two of the wives of my hubby’s workmates are pg. They’re around our age. My first reaction was to cry for about half an hour. Still feeling sad now. We have a work “do”in a few weeks where it will no doubt be all anyone can talk about. I just don’t want to go. What if the comments start there? I don’t feel strong enough to cope with more of this right now. :eek:

Sorry this has been a long rant, thanks for listening (or is that ‘reading’?), and thanks for your replies in advance. If you have any ideas on this or want to make me feel like I’m not on my own here, FEEL FREE!

[xkwzit]

You poor thing...

Please try not to let this stress you out (I know - easier said...), I'm sure that no-one's trying to upset you (they're just very insensitive to your situation, and maybe even perhaps because they don't know your intimate details). I know that it must just grate on you until your primed to explode...but try to place your health and sanity above any ignorant person's prying questions.

There must be a few ways to get people to lay off you. And you're not THAT old (DH and I were 29 when we had our first and had been married for 7 years, no medical reason, just didn't feel ready before then). I never really had too many people harrassing me (maybe because I'd jokingly said when I was a silly teenager that I was going to wait until you could grow a baby in a tank :rolleyes: ). My planned response to the "when are you going to have children" was going to be "how do you know we haven't been trying". It depends whether you feel comfortable with that...as it is a bit close to your truth.

Otherwise, you could tell people that that is a very personal issue that you don't feel like talking about right now. You are entitled to your privacy, even from people who care about you a lot. If/when your ready to share you can, but you don't have to explain the way you build your family to any and everyone.

Lots of hugs and best wishes

[Crimson]

Hi Kacey.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am 21 and not even been married for 1 year and we are copping the same sort of thing from the church. from 3 couples there are 15.6 kids :eek: . i think it is outrageous. Fair enough if they want to do that but I certainly dont, but am being pushed into the mould.

My way of dealing with it is completely exiling these people from my life :o not the best way I think. But it works for me.

So, I dont really have any advice for you, just letting you know you are not alone and that the old days are still here church wise.

Hope it all works out fine for you in the end.

[BlueGin]

Hi Kasey, I am sorry to hear you are having to deal with such insensitive people, it is really rough! I don't tell anyone anymore that I have PCOS, sadly it has made a few people look at me differently so I understand if you don't want to do that. One thing I used to say to people when they asked was that I loved the thought of kids, but I just wasn't ready to share my DH yet! I usually then joke about the fact that I need at least another couple of years of being the centre of his world before I will be ready to bring another member into our family. Most people get all gooey and think it is really sweet and shut up! Then when you do fall pregnant, you can pretty easily do a backflip by saying that you decided there was nothing more special you could do with someone you love so much than having a baby together.
With church, maybe you could chat with your minister? He would probably be used to seeing all this going on for donkey's years, and may have a good way to deal with these people that wont offend them.
Good luck sweety, I hope it works out for you!

[Audrey]

I can't believe how rude people can be! I used to get lots of comments and people making ticking clock noises around me. So, if someone asked me when I was going to have a baby, I would say that I am waiting for my husband to grow up before I have children. Thankfully my husband could see the funny side of this comment and it helped to shut people up. They didn't seem to know whether I was joking or not, but they used to laugh anyway. ;)

Good luck with ttc! Age 26/27 is definitely not 'relatively old'. You have plenty of time. Enjoy your freedom while you have it.

[mousey]

**hugz**
I too have PCOS, and we were blessed with a daughter 2 years ago (it took 2 years to get her)... and I hate to tell you... the comments don't stop after you have one :o
We have been ttc#2 for a year and the comments like "so when's DD gonna get a brother/sister" etc have been coming pretty steady pretty much since she was born!! :rolleyes:
I cracked big time about a month or so ago, and anyone who asked me about "the next one" got a really dirty look (that was on a good day! :p )
These days I've taken a leaf out of my DH's book (he gets all the comments at work too, his boss loves babies ;) ) his reply is always "whenever" and changes the subject!

[sweetangel2811]

Hey Kacey

It is amazing how insensitive people can be without really trying huh? I suppose some small facet of them is both just trying to make conversation, but also (in some insane way) they are trying to be nice?

I know with my husband's family ( who are Vietnamese) They don't even say hello to me anymore, they just walk up to me, touch my belly and say "when?". Apparently my duty as soon as we got married was to be PG 1 month after the wedding!! (like it is that easy!!) So I guess at 8 months we are pushing the friendship!!

Pretty rude though, and it doesn't help anything as it puts undue pressure on you, even though you may not think it does.

We try to keep laughing about it and come up with an array of smart ass answers to their questions (like "We were thinking about trying in 2010 - nice round number, easy year to calculate age from" etc etc) That generally shuts them up.

I suppose you could probably speak to your minister, he/she would be at least able to give you some advice about how to answer the questions.

Let us know how you go.

Kiersten

[dee dee]

people can be really insensitive at times and the "when are you going to have a bub question" is one of my pet hates. It took ! one year for us to conceive our little one and nosey people would constantly ask the dreaded question. I really wish that people would stop and think before they comment as how do they know that a couple isn't already trying and that it is a sensitive topic!!!!

Anyway my dd is 4.5 months old and the question is starting again arghhhh!!!!!! I just wish that I too knrw how to tell these people where to go.

[razzle]

You need to have a stash of comebacks for these rude people! ;)

"Why do you want to know?" (Always stumps people!)

"Why, do you want an invitation to the conception?"

"It's on my to do list"

"I wasn't aware there was a deadline"

"I'll be having the next one nine months after its conceived"

"When are you going to lose weight?" (Or some equally rude, personal question)

"Why? Does it effect you personally that I don't have one?"

"When everyone stops asking me"

"When people start minding their own business"

"Oh I'm not, I'm going to breed monkeys instead"

"Well I was going to have one but then I met your children and it's put me off"

"I can keep a diary of the dates we have sex if you like"

"I'm on the waiting list"

Have fun! :p

[princess]

Well done Boomtish - can I borrow some of those.....

Hey Kacey,
Know where you are coming from. People just have no idea sometimes. Even family can be quite insensitive. But like my DH reminds me of - is that they really do care, they just don't know better.

I would sometimes reply to similar questions often by saying "Don't know if we can have children" (this was before we actually found out we would need treatment - maybe I jinxed myself) or always something about how I only like the children you can leave at home on their own and they must have fur or feathers (most people ended up being resigned to the fact that is all I will ever have - I guess showing the "baby" pictures of my duckling is taking it a little too far)

One excellent come back my DH had to the question from his mother "when are we going to hear the pitter patter of little feet" was along the lines of "when the eggs hatch we can bring the ducklings over" (obviously referring to my clutch of duck eggs the chicken was sitting on). (Funny story there - had to use donor sperm and a surrogate (the chicken) to eventually get one baby duck - they say that animals ar like their owners.... :D )

You can have fun with people and mess with there minds a little over all this but it can be very stressful to have to hear the same things over and over again.
And don't think that you are too old and definetely don't let small minds control how you feel. People with small minds are often uneducated. Perhaps it is up to us to educate them into seeing that comments like that do hurt. Somehow without compromising our own personal privacy.

Best of luck with TTCing Kacey.

Deb

[ThomasMum]

I know its easier for me to say, not to worry but hey I had my times when people giving me those narrow-minded remarks because Joshua and I were married for years and had been together for many years before that! We own our place, great jobs so imagine how many comments we had to go through before we decided that we were ready to become a parents??? Oh I am so used to it, and be ready this is just the beginning, soon or later there will be 'when is the next one?'!

hey Rach, I like this phrase "Oh I'm not, I'm going to breed monkeys instead", i kid you not I said this one to couple people and their face absolutely, priceless!!

*cuckle*

:D

[Jeni]

The thing with these comments is that people have no idea how much hurt they inflict. It's a natural thing for people to wonder, and sometimes their mouths get the better of them! Even more so in a loving church, where people actually seem to forget that they aren't actually family!
I know it is a very personal issue for you, and you will probably hate this idea so don't get mad at me, but have you thought of telling someone in the church about your pcos?
Perhaps there is a prayer chain that could pray for you? The reason I say this is because last year a friend of mine was going through the same things and she was researching fertility problems on the computer and she found several articles about the power of prayer with fertility. The researchers expected to find no difference, but amazingly (...or not so amazingly if you're a believer!), many more of the women who had people pray about their fertility, conceived than in the non praying group. Here's a link to an article about this:

http://www.chiropracticresearch.org/NEWS_power_of_prayer_in_medicine.htm

The only problem with telling people is, possibly a different set of annoying comments!

[kacey]

Thank you all for your replies! I am going to print out all these replies so I can have a steady stream of smart-ass comments to snap back with. I feel really humbled that others have been through the same stuff. It always helps to know you're not the only one, but I didn't know it'd help this much!

Just some stuff to complicate things: any child of ours would be the first grandchild on both sides; my parents are 70 but are too scared of my wrath to ask any more than very subtly; DH's parents are 56/58 and have told us *unsubtly* that they don't think we should have kids yet (actually, they'd rather we weren't married - long story). We have given both set the impression that we have no immediate interest in children, and really no-one knows we're trying except 3 friends. Only people who know about PCOS are our pastor and his wife, who are also friends - figured we might need some moral support.

Xkwzit: before we knew about PCOS I used to say really sadly "Well, we just found out we can't have kids" and they'd say "Really? Sorry!" and I'd say "No, but wouldn't you feel bad if it was true! Mind your own business!" Well, I would be too sad to say something so close to the truth now, so I prefer to keep people at a distance. Thanks for your support.

Crimson: Somethimes you have to shut people out to keep yourself sane. Are you sure you don't go to my old church? :D We had a family with 7 children and a bunch of others with 4. Oh, and not a catholic church - I know what you're all thinking with 7 kids. Those people at your church need to give you a chance to cement your marriage, really ground yourselves. Enjoy your DH's exclusive attention for a while. I hope they learn to be quiet soon for you.

Bluegin: Thanks, some great replies there. When we told our pastor and his wife (they have 3 children) they recalled a story from long ago when she overheard the elders praying in the other room, one of them sincerely asking God to "open her womb". She said it was the most humiliating experience and they were not really trying yet, so she knows how I feel, but had no real ideas on how to combat it.

Audrey: I think most people would more readily believe that it is me who needs to grow up - maybe I'll tell them that. Ta.

Mousey, Dee Dee: Thank you for confirming what I was told 7 years ago. Grrrr! People started saying "When will you get engaged?" I complained to a friend and she told me to wait for the marriage questions, the baby questions, the 2nd baby questions, the how many children questions, the don't you think 7 is enough questions......... :p I hated the engagement questions, but they were not this bad.

Sweetangel: OH MY GOODNESS! I suddenly feel as though I have nothing to complain about! But your "2010" response is going to the top of my list - I am still laughing about it.

Boomtish: Talk about a pick me up. DH's favourite response from the whole thread is "Well I was going to have one but then I met your children and it's put me off". Classic. Thanks for the ammo.

Princess, ThomasMum: Thanks, very encouraging.

Jeni: I think people do overstep the bounds of Christian family occasionally. It is out of love, but still hurts sometimes. I wouldn't tell them because some people ask every week - "so how's that thing going that we're praying for?" I'd rather not be reminded more than I already am. Maybe there should be a thread on this site for Christians to meet each other and pray for each other and for everyone on the site.

Thank you all again, so good to not be alone. I read your replies to DH, and his response was that he could see it really was a widespread problem and I think he could see a bit better how much it affects us women. Thank you, and I'll post any funny stories I have about using your replies - that'll help me keep my chin up. :)

[WeThree]

hi my sister has pcos and i often feel bad that i seem to be able to produce all these children whilst they are struggling to have one, having said that i feel that some of these comments have been made to big a deal out of, people do it just to make conversation, it is only usually casual chit chat, i dont know why you would give it a second thought, im sure the person making the comment doesnt think they are being rude, and im sure they usually do not deserve rude or sarcastic comments in return. if i was to make casual conversation with someone and the topic of if they are or arent having children came up and they were gave some sort of off handed, smart alec 'comeback' i would be mortified! how rude! lighten up girls, i cant imagine what it is like to be ttc concieve without success, it must be horrible, but the major majority of people are only being nice, or trying to make polite small talk, and surely you have much more important things to worry about, then whether or not some poor unsuspecting person has asked you when you are going to have a baby? dont be rude to people, :) and be glad people want to take the time to chat with you, because if you decide to be cynical and sarcastic to them noone will want to bother with you at all ;)

[madvoice]

In the end its hard to be polite sometimes.
I conceived my daughter 3 months before we were due to get married. All of the shotgun wedding comments really ****ed me off.
As well as the 'so you couldn't wait until after the wedding' etc etc. I just happened to conceive on the pill, it wasn't planned but she's here now :D.
My parents and DH's parents were really good about it all though. Never really pushy.

[maybe1more]

I think Boomtish, has said it all. I thinks its great that you and your hubby have had 4.5 years off marriage first before children, you have a suportive hubby and you will fall pregnant, with out all the pressure. All the best

[WeThree]

hi madvoice, hubby and i fell pregnant just before we got married as well, and we recieved our fair share of comments like that too, i think the best think to do is just give a weak smile and leave it at that, but i think comments like that are a bit different to people politely asking when you are going to have a bubba, i mean people arent psychic, how can they possibly know that you've already been asked the same question a thousand times!

[sopolicha]

After being lucky enough to have no trouble ttc at all, I can not imagine how difficult it must be, especially month after month of trying and having people ask all the time.

Obviously all the comments being made to Kacey are offending her, most people don't realise they are being rude or offensive and that is why sometimes a backhanded comment needs to be made. Why shouldn't Kacey and her husband be allowed to go church without someone asking her all the time and upsetting her? People aren't being nice, I think it is nosy question and it is a sensitive topic along the lines of others such as are you menstuating/breastfeeding, is your husband was impotent or do you orgasm? (maybe a bit far)

I don't think that you should just grin and bear it and be glad that people are talking are you. If they are upsetting you stay away from them, and find whatever comfort you can in making a smart comment or even wishing that you could.

[cosmic]

I can really see both points of view in this one. I agree that most people don't realise they are being offensive.. they are just making conversation. I also know that it can be really annoying conversation! :o

But perhaps instead of a) being sarcastic and rude; b) cutting people out of your life; or c) grinning and bearing it.... you try just plain being honest! "When I'm pregnant, you'll be one of the first to know. Until then, I'd really appreciate it if you stopped asking me!".

I have friends who phone me and say 'Are you pregnant yet?'.. as if I wouldn't have told them if I was (or will tell them when I'm ready!). I know they mean no harm, but I have just started saying to them "NO.. I will tell you when I am, but until then, please don't ask". Give them some credit - they will understand. They just don't know if you don't tell them.

C.

[WeThree]

great advice cosmic, like i said people arent psychic, and how will they know you dont like what they are saying if you dont tell them? My friends and I often joke 'whens the next one' 'arent you guys pregnant yet?" etc its all meant in good fun, and you dont even really expect an answer, i dont know how anyone could compare that with someone asking if you are menstruating or if your dh is impotent! I certainly could see why you would become upset if the questions became more probing and personal like that but i still find it nice when i go to church and people take an innocent and well meaning interest in my little family, although if some of the woman i know take offense as easily as some of the ones in here seem to i best not do the same to them! :)

[BlueGin]

Hey Madvoice, when DH and I eloped the instant reaction was that it was a "shotgun wedding" (which i think is a pretty mean-minded joke when it comes to babies) but the funny thing is, that now 3 months after the wedding and I am still not pregnant... the same people seem disapointed! It is pretty funny how people so love to be involved in eachothers lives.
Kacey, I am really glad to hear you are taking this all in your stride, and thanks for taking the time to reply personally, it was really sweet of you!
Good luck, it sounds like your DH is very supportive, so I am sure you will be fine and dandy :)

[sopolicha]

I hate people who hijack a thread BUT..............

Coopsntilly, I am sorry but I did not take offence to the comments you made, I think that they were perhaps a bit insensitive towards Kacey. The poor woman has come onto a internet forum and more or less bared her soul to complete strangers looking for some support and the best that can be offered is

"dont be rude to people, and be glad people want to take the time to chat with you, because if you decide to be cynical and sarcastic to them noone will want to bother with you at all"

Jeez, I would hate to see some of your sympathy.

Kacey, good luck to you and your husband and I hope you get what you after, I think you have every right to feel aggrieved and upset about your situation and the comments that you feel you have to endure.

[madvoice]

hi madvoice, hubby and i fell pregnant just before we got married as well, and we recieved our fair share of comments like that too, i think the best think to do is just give a weak smile and leave it at that, but i think comments like that are a bit different to people politely asking when you are going to have a bubba, i mean people arent psychic, how can they possibly know that you've already been asked the same question a thousand times!

I think that's a bit rude to say that its that much different. Regardless of whether you are getting the 'when are you going to have a baby' comments or 'shotgun wedding' comments they all hurt. I'm also not the sort to just give that 'weak smile' and leave it alone. If I have something to say I say it right out. Like right now.

I can understand where other people are coming from with the 'comments' thing. Maybe coopsntilly, a little bit of tact next time will go a lot further.

[WeThree]

ok ok girls i get the picture, i was just trying to maybe help her see the lighter side of what can be akward situations, and the comments about not being rude and sarcastic were not aimed at poor Kasey, rather i was pointing out that some of the other advice given about responding to comments in that way may not be the best way to handle things, anyway i dont see how giving advice that is asked for is hijacking a thread (unless hijacking it means you dont agree with everyone else :rolleyes: ) but Kasey I really wasnt trying to be mean and oncew again i will be boring and stick to threads where everyone totally agrees with each other, sorry girls :o

[madvoice]

Coopsntilly, you weren't the thread hijacker, Sopoli was. I can understand your point of view with regard to the advice thing, but remember sometimes the way we word things can affect people. Just because I took some offence (yes I'll outright admit it) to what you responded to my post doesn't mean I think negatively about you as a whole. I'm sure you have had experiences that provide valuable advice.

My method of dealing with things is to just get it off my chest and forget about it like I'm sure others are on this forum. My philosophy is that you can please some people most of the time but you can't please all people all of the time.

Stick with us. We're not all bad.

[cosmic]

I was really glad to read that Kacey took heart from all the support and advice she received here. Kacey, it's great to hear you are feeling much better! And like firstbub said, it's lovely that you have a supportive DH and you've always got lots of people to rant to in here, so don't feel alone! You're certainly not old (I am 33 and DH is 37, married 3.5yrs and only just ttc #1 :eek: ) But if there is a physical condition that might slow down your ability to conceive the last thing you need is to be stressed and worried and feeling pressured from everyone. So feel free to come in here and rant and you will always get lots of support.

coopsntilly, you poor thing, I thought I should pop in and offer you some support. I just want to say that I know where you were coming from... I feel somehow affronted when I hear people suggesting that rudeness or sarcasm is an effective way of dealing with a difficult situation.. even though I appreciate that some of the suggestions were meant to be tongue-in-cheek (and some mildly amusing!). I also agree totally that people have no way of knowing they are being offensive unless someone tells them. Most people would be mortified to know their comments have been upsetting... and who knows.. there could be a whole world of love and support sitting in that church-group going to waste!

[sweetangel2811]

I am not trying to hedge my bets here at all, but I do think that everyone has a valid argument with how they deal with the constant questioning.

Coopsntilly, I can see what you are saying that people are just trying to be nice and that smart ass answers are probably not what they expect and probably think are a bit rude. I grant you that some comments which can be made in return can get outright nasty.

However, I think that each person is different, and each person has a different point to which they mind those issues they deem as private being questioned by others. Each person also has different levels in which a certain issue is private or not.

There is also the factor of what people might construe as the meanings behind the questions people ask (such as the notion of a shotgun wedding - which certainly does not conjure any positive images about that persons character!)

I know with me, I know that the family are well meaning, even though I feel the way they ask the question is rude. However when it gets to the point that those people do not bother to try and talk to you about other things aside from when you are having a baby, you start to think that they are not merely making conversation, but are in fact fishing for information to suit there own curiosity, and sometimes even gossipy nature.

I think one would have to review the situation in which the questions are continually being asked. I am guessing with Kacey, she might have a situation similar to mine in that she is not being engaged in any conversation other than that surrounding her ability to procreate!

In that instance I think an ability to politely but firmly quieten those questions is required. If it is however someone whom she has not seen in a while and this is like there first time to ask the question, then I think your approach is the best one!

[kacey]

Coopsntilly: I don’t think we’ll understand each other’s positions properly because we have not experienced the same things, but I appreciate you caring enough to post. It’s like Atticus says in ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ - “You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view...’til you climb inside of his skin and walk around in it.” When I read your first post my first thought was how glad you would be that you had a child. See what I mean? We interpret things differently depending on our life experiences.

I agree that I probably do over-react to people’s mostly innocent comments, but that too is a product of my life experiences. My life experiences have taught me that people need to earn my trust, that people do not always mean well, and that things rarely go my way. On top of that, the grief and sadness of a recent PCOS diagnosis, which sits just beneath the surface like a raw wound makes even innocent remarks seem like so much more. Having said that, a number of the comments are not so innocent and more like gossip-digging.

It’s good to have this kind of forum to vent frustrations, fears and hurts, to gain support, help us not feel so alone in the world, and to learn to understand each other better. I hope I understand you all a little better as a result of this thread.

Thank you everyone for your kind words and sincere (or not so sincere) advice. I feel so totally not alone, I feel understood. I will try to show some discretion as to who gets the sarcastic end of my humour (ie nosey gossipers and those who can take it with good humour). I think all your ROTFLOL hilarious suggestions will keep me in good humour even when I feel compelled to “just give a weak smile and leave it at that”. :D Thanks.

[xkwzit]

Hi All
I'd just like to add that I think that it is really important to be able to disagree with each other sometimes, and every one is entitled to their view (as long as it doesn't involve a personal attack). I did originally think that this thread was getting a little harsh, but having re-read what everyone had to say I think that the vast majority are being helpful, even though not everyone proposed the same solution may have been different to others.

So Coops, please don't stay away because your opinion is different or you'd like people to see another perspective. I'm sure that for some people, your approach is best and they might have learnt that here, but if you didn't contribute, no-one may have considered your option. If we all agree all the time we're a pretty boring mob to hang with, don't you think? And I don't think we'd learn as much...and so many of you made me laugh so much, thanks to you all :D .


Cheers