View Full Version : Serial Killer Ivan Milat Rewarded In Prison
SamanthaJane
21-06-2006, 11:02
From The daily Telegraph....
Monstrous serial killer Ivan milat has been rewarded for "good beahviour" by having his cell equipped with electrical goods so he can enjoy life on the inside.
The backpacker murderer has been given a toasted sandwich maker and his own television as a reward for not engaging in acts of disobedience or self-harm.
Outraged victims' support groups last night demanded that the luxury items be removed from Milat's cell at Goulburn's Supermax prison.
"It is an insult to the families of his victims". Ian Clarke, father of victim Caroline, said Milat didn't deserve any privileges.
"You are supposed to behave properly in prison. I don't think you should be redwarded for doing so," Mr Clarke said last night.
"He didn't give any privileges to any of our children. As far as I'm concerned, he can rot.I wouldn't agree to him being given anything. It's a joke. My immediate reaction is, i wish he hadn't been given anything."
Milat, 61, has been given the privileges because he is deemed no longer likely to attempt to kill himself, or to escape.
In 1997 he made a doomed attempt to flee from Maitland jail with drug criminal George Savvas.
Two years later officers found a hacksaw blade in his cell and in 2001 he made a bizarre suicide attempt, in which he swallowed razor blades, staples and a metal chain from a set of nail clippers, but still failed to take his own life.
This is the next stage...
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=107734
In my opinion, he should never have been given the items in the beginning. I think its so wrong. I'd rather see that man harm himself and die in prison, than be rewarded for not doing so. I feel sorry for the family of his victims! They are still suffering from their losses, while the man jailed for their murder was being redwarded with a tv and a toaster.:no:
~EmsMum~
21-06-2006, 11:04
he shouldn't have anything at all, No Way!
Briannabear
21-06-2006, 11:49
Yuck. He creeps me out. I had a nightmare about him the other night! :eek:
Tam-I-Am
21-06-2006, 11:59
I feel that way about most of the priviledge extended to prisoners these days. Isn't the point of prison to be punished for the wrongs you have done? (and, possibly, to be rehabilitated....)
I don't think prisoners should be awarded priveledges for behaving as they should anyway.....
diamonds22
21-06-2006, 12:01
Yuck. He creeps me out. I had a nightmare about him the other night! :eek:
oh that is scary!!
I think its disgusting, i'm totally with Clarabelle on this one!
WizzFizz
21-06-2006, 12:10
It was on the news this morning that his 'privledges' have been removed due to a public outcry...
~EmsMum~
21-06-2006, 12:12
It was on the news this morning that his 'privledges' have been removed due to a public outcry...
oh wow I hadn't heard that.
SamanthaJane
21-06-2006, 12:26
The link in the orgininal post has the details of the items being taken away:yes::thumbsup:
pestiferous
23-06-2006, 10:48
I thought the point of prison was to rehabilitate ?
What do you all propose we do, throw prisoners in a cage and HOPE
they don't act like animals when they are released? :rolleyes:
No milat is not likely to be released, but I'm sure there are other
prisoners convicted of serious crimes that have these 'luxuries' as
well. If we are to crucify one we must crucify all, If we
remove these items from one we must remove them from all!
Being in prison IS their punishment. i dont think a sandwich maker is
going to make them forget where they are or why and there would
have to be some connection to normality for prisoners to
rehabilitate, this 'throw away the key' attitude, stems from spite
and anger and no good ever comes from either.
Personally i don't give a damn if Milat or any other prisoner has a tv
or sandwich maker in their room, (as long as they pay for it themselves
which i am under the impression they must, either by money given
to them by family or by working inside the prison)
What good will it do for victims or their family to remove such insignificant
items anyway? It won't bring the victims back, it will not ease the pain
of the families loss or heal the wounds of victims still living and Revenge
NEVER feels as good as we imagine it will.
I think life in prison has it's own pains and pitfall's that we could not
even imagine, let alone understand, I could never survive being locked
in at night, having each and every move i make dictated by another,
have no contact with my own family etc etc etc. I think prison is a
sufficient punishment, and the length of term the varying degree.
It may sound as if i am, but i am not defending prisoners, I think
If you do the crime, you should do the time (as they say) BUT i don't see
what GOOD can come from such petty micro control.
Really, what do we want?
revolving door prisons reminiscent of those in the US, hell holes like
those in Singapore or a system focused on turning scum into contributing members of society?
Well he will never be released(thank god!) so he desrves to be in a cell with a bucket to **** in..
What have his victims got? NOTHING!!!!!!
He took EVERYTHING away from them so why on earth should he have anything but a cell and a bucket...not that he even deserves that...
I feel that way about most of the priviledge extended to prisoners these days. Isn't the point of prison to be punished for the wrongs you have done? (and, possibly, to be rehabilitated....)
I don't think prisoners should be awarded priveledges for behaving as they should anyway.....
Hey, I NEVER killed anyone and I've NEVER tried to kill myself... haven't received any complimentary plasma tvs or toasters. Maybe it's still on its way. :rolleyes:
ClaraBelle, have you received yours yet??? ;)
I'm so glad they removed them, but don't know why it took a public outcry to realise it shouldn't have been given:confused:
Pestiferous: "rewarded" suggests to me that he made no payments for his new toys.
Are you saying that if a multimillionaire killed somebody, they should be able to deck their cell out with the latest in home entertainment systems? They can afford it afterall! :rolleyes:
It's a jail, not a penthouse!
Jax Tellers Old Lady
23-06-2006, 11:08
I thought the point of prison was to rehabilitate ?
What do you all propose we do, throw prisoners in a cage and HOPE
they don't act like animals when they are released? :rolleyes:
No milat is not likely to be released, but I'm sure there are other
prisoners convicted of serious crimes that have these 'luxuries' as
well. If we are to crucify one we must crucify all, If we
remove these items from one we must remove them from all!
Being in prison IS their punishment. i dont think a sandwich maker is
going to make them forget where they are or why and there would
have to be some connection to normality for prisoners to
rehabilitate, this 'throw away the key' attitude, stems from spite
and anger and no good ever comes from either.
Personally i don't give a damn if Milat or any other prisoner has a tv
or sandwich maker in their room, (as long as they pay for it themselves
which i am under the impression they must, either by money given
to them by family or by working inside the prison)
What good will it do for victims or their family to remove such insignificant
items anyway? It won't bring the victims back, it will not ease the pain
of the families loss or heal the wounds of victims still living and Revenge
NEVER feels as good as we imagine it will.
I think life in prison has it's own pains and pitfall's that we could not
even imagine, let alone understand, I could never survive being locked
in at night, having each and every move i make dictated by another,
have no contact with my own family etc etc etc. I think prison is a
sufficient punishment, and the length of term the varying degree.
It may sound as if i am, but i am not defending prisoners, I think
If you do the crime, you should do the time (as they say) BUT i don't see
what GOOD can come from such petty micro control.
Really, what do we want?
revolving door prisons reminiscent of those in the US, hell holes like
those in Singapore or a system focused on turning scum into contributing members of society?
I believe people like him should be given nothing but a cold cell made of concrete and thats it why should he have nay privledges he took the lives of people where is the justice i say
OscarTheGrouch
23-06-2006, 14:40
He's apparently suicidal now. Well, boo-hoo for him! Suicidal because he lost his TV and sandwich maker. Imagine how his victims feel about losing their loved ones!
Jax Tellers Old Lady
23-06-2006, 14:43
what a freak he must be bury him alive if hes that suicidal i say:laughing:
sopolicha
23-06-2006, 15:03
Okay here is a theory, he gets the items for good behaviour. When he is naughty again the items get taken away.
Don't you think that these items give the Prison staff watching over him something to 'keep him honest' and well behaved. If it makes their jobs a small bit easier what is the fuss? They are the ones living with him 24/7.
In the big scheme of things these items are nothing. In this country and in this day and age no person is going to be locked up and treated inhumanely.
Jax Tellers Old Lady
23-06-2006, 15:09
i know what your saying but i disagree people like that should be treated inhumanley in my opinion imagine if it was one of our family members not to mention our kids how much would we all hate him then. Remember that the families of the victims will hear this that the has these items and that must make things hard for them. I believe that he should get nothing. Bring back capital punishment.
Its not a frickin kindergarten! I know the guards have a job to do but maybe if they just left him in a cell with nothing else and just pushed his food in through a slot in the door then what can he get up to?
sopolicha
23-06-2006, 15:13
If we starting treating people inhumanely, what does that say about us a society?
Jax Tellers Old Lady
23-06-2006, 15:15
well what do u think is the correct punishment for murder im sure you could have a lovely conversation with the families:banghead:
sopolicha
23-06-2006, 15:22
He is in a maximum security prison, he is not going anywhere, ever. Who cares if he has a tellie and sandwich maker? He still has to be fed. He is not going out to the pub or racetrack.
When you are convicted of slaughtering other human beings i think you should lose all you human rights...Why should you keep them? You took all the rights from your victims.
As i said before..cold prison cell and a bucket to p!ss in.
melfunction
23-06-2006, 15:33
Its all about taking away one's freedom. That is the punishment. If they didn't give him a tv would it bring back the ones he murdered?
Of course it wouldnt bring back his victims but WHY does he need a TV? He is being punished for god sake...
melfunction
23-06-2006, 15:44
As I said above, he has lost his right to go anywhere he wants, whenever he wants. That is what the justice system has decided for him. Yes, he is being punished.
I don't want to imagine not being able to go where I want, when I want.
Jax Tellers Old Lady
23-06-2006, 16:43
He is in a maximum security prison, he is not going anywhere, ever. Who cares if he has a tellie and sandwich maker? He still has to be fed. He is not going out to the pub or racetrack.
have u even really thought about the disgusting thing he done if it was your mum he killed would you still be saying that:banghead:
Jax Tellers Old Lady
23-06-2006, 16:44
Of course it wouldnt bring back his victims but WHY does he need a TV? He is being punished for god sake...
i totally agree jazz why should he be allowed any off lifes luxuries
ummmm but he is still a human being, or have we decided that that no longer matters???
no one is deneying the pain of the victims families. and no one is saying that what he did was okay. it was horrific and awful and those crimes are something that no one should have to experience.
but he is someones child, even if he is an extremely f**ked up one. so if having a tv and a toaster keeps him sane and functioning in a max security prison where he will eventually die, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?? they are not giving him parole for good behaviour!! a tv! big deal. there are alot bigger issues to make an outcry about than a PRISONER watching daytime telly.
this is not the middle ages where we stone people in the court or burn them at the stake. we live in a society that has decided prison with it's privileges and other rules are the way we deal with criminals. there are people who have committed crimes who are going to be let out and rejoin society. isn't it better to help them become functioning rather than leave them to rot in in some cell and then let them out more f**ked up than before????
damien's mum
23-06-2006, 18:13
I think that is totally WRONG, just WRONG. Their daughter cannot have the right to enjoy those type of luxuries, so why does the person that murders her, get to, i think its not very smart, reasonable, or even dignified!
:banghead:
sopolicha
23-06-2006, 18:19
have u even really thought about the disgusting thing he done if it was your mum he killed would you still be saying that:banghead:
Okay, hypothetically speaking of course. If that happened to me I would like to that I would be more focused on getting over her violent death and helping my children cope with the loss of a much loved Grandma. I would also think that I was a big enough person to realise that nothing is going to bring her back, and that becoming obsessed with the person who took her life is not going to help my situation.
I know a fair bit how the whole system works and in the big scheme of things and taking a sandwich maker and tellie away from someone who has killed untold number of people is not going to affect him. It is a media beat up, and just fodder for commercial radio stations.
Well said faery. I don't like the man or anything that he did, but he is still a human whether we like it or not.
This man is going to rot in prison for the rest of his days, as he should, but arent you all being a bit hypocritical? Screaming for blood and for him to be treated the way he treated others? How can we ever move forward as a society if this is the way so many people still think?
So he has a tv and a toasted sandwich maker in his tiny little cell, big woop, would you all prefer that prisoners were chained in tiny, filthy dark cells, all alone like some countries do? gee, that makes you soooo much better than the person being punished :rolleyes:
He creeps me out as well, I think he is evil and Im thankful that he is in prison for the rest of his days, but Sop had a good point, the reward and punishment system is an effective tool for keeping prisoners in line and something simple like a tv can reduce boredom and help reduce riots, and other problems.
SamanthaJane
23-06-2006, 18:34
He is in a maximum security prison, he is not going anywhere, ever. Who cares if he has a tellie and sandwich maker? He still has to be fed. He is not going out to the pub or racetrack.
I care!:( And if someone like me, who doesnt even know any of the victims, is seriously annoyed by this then just imagine what the victims must be going through! It really p*sses me of that he was even given these luxuries to start with. That is what they are. Luxuries. He does not need his own personal TV nor does he need a sandwhich maker to "survive" in prison. They are classed as luxury items in prison. And i do not see why australia's worst serial killer is being "rewarded" with these items. He deserves no rewards.
ummmm but he is still a human being, or have we decided that that no longer matters???
Nope, not in my books:no: Have some of you forgotten the way in which he killed these people? He gave his victims no rewards. He killed so many people. He gets some sick joy out of murdering helpless people who have done nothing wrong. He is a disgusting, cruel and horrible man. He laughs at the thought of his murdered victims. The violent acts he commited are totally inhumane. To me, he is not a human, he is an animal.
And as for him threatening to kill himself if he doesnt get the items back... well, go do it buddy, i couldnt care less. I'd rather see him dead and rotting in hell than living in prison with a tv and a toaster to occupy his time!
He is australia's worst serial killer. He deserves nothing:no:
You know, I could never begin to understand how those families feel, or the pain that they have and are obviously still going through. And I could never begin to understand how a human being could do such horrendous things to another human being. It makes me physically sick to think about it.
But Ivan Milat IS still a human being. And once he was a tiny little baby and a small child like many of us have - a blank canvas. We don't know the full story about this man, we only know about this particular chapter in his life.
Somewhere along the way, as he grew up in his f...ed up life, people, events, environment or something happened to drive him to make horrendous choices and do these terrible, terrible things. Which doesn't make it OK, because no matter what happens in our lives, we still have choices.
But he is now being suitably punished for the awful things he did - locked away and maybe never to be released. If he is suicidal then his every waking day is probably hell.
Giving him a TV and sandwich maker is certainly not going to make his life a luxury and taking them away most certainly will not help the victim's families deal with their grief.
But where does it end? A prisoner has asked to be compensated because the meat he was served isnt Halal! ITS NOT A BLOODY HOTEL!!!!!!!!!
These people tortured and killed other peoples children! They dont deserve privledges EVEN for good behaviour. Ivan Milat is pure evil and he has no remorse and doesnt deserve ANYTHING!
He is scum. And im telling you now if it was my daughter he murdered he wouldnt even be breathing.
MammaMia
23-06-2006, 20:02
This is a circular argument... you are wasting your energies on a man who does not deserve it.
Discuss the criminal justice system, discuss the corrective services system - but not him.
By discussing him and his crimes you feed the beast that basks in the infamy and relives his acts of terror.
Move on. Give him no more presence in this place. Do not elevate him to a position worthy of your attention.
SamanthaJane
23-06-2006, 20:25
But where does it end? A prisoner has asked to be compensated because the meat he was served isnt Halal! ITS NOT A BLOODY HOTEL!!!!!!!!!
These people tortured and killed other peoples children! They dont deserve privledges EVEN for good behaviour. Ivan Milat is pure evil and he has no remorse and doesnt deserve ANYTHING!
He is scum. And im telling you now if it was my daughter he murdered he wouldnt even be breathing.
So very true! :yes:
As my mum says... its a prison, not a holiday resort.
MammaMia... He does not "deserve" our attention in some ways, but i refuse to not discuss his crimes because when i do that, i become ignorant. I go back to my little bubble and pretend like nothing is happening in the world around me. If no one speaks up about these things, they will never change. The media, the families and the general public put up a huge stink about him getting the luxuries, so they were taken off him and the system is now being analysed. If we sat back and thought "ohwell, his not worth my attention" he'd be still living in his cell with his little luxury items. And thats not okay by me at all:no:
misskittyfantastico
23-06-2006, 20:29
Honestly though SJ what do you hope to achieve? His crimes are abhorent. He will be incarcerated until he dies.
Anger and hatred only hurt THE PERSON WHO is angry and hateful, they rot from the inside out. Don't give the man that power.
sopolicha
23-06-2006, 20:32
SJ, he has been through the court system and the matters have been dealt with and finalised The families of the victims are attempting to get on with their lives, or what is left of them.
Do you really think they want to hear if he has 'luxuries' such as a tv. If I was in their situation and the media contacted me about this matter, I would be seeing red. Not because of what is happening in the prison, but because of the issue being made out of it.
MammaMia
23-06-2006, 20:35
So very true! :yes:
As my mum says... its a prison, not a holiday resort.
MammaMia... He does not "deserve" our attention in some ways, but i refuse to not discuss his crimes because when i do that, i become ignorant. I go back to my little bubble and pretend like nothing is happening in the world around me. If no one speaks up about these things, they will never change. The media, the families and the general public put up a huge stink about him getting the luxuries, so they were taken off him and the system is now being analysed. If we sat back and thought "ohwell, his not worth my attention" he'd be still living in his cell with his little luxury items. And thats not okay by me at all:no:
SJ - you miss the point. Discuss luxuries in custody by all means. Discuss appropriate punishments ... but this thread has gone to the specifics of the man and his crimes - and that is different. Like Sopolicha, I have seen far more of these type of criminals than I hope you ever encounter or begin to understand how they think and what gives them pleasure. For that reason, I don't support adding to the attention their actions post-offence attract...they thrive on attention, they thrive on their crimes, they gain fulfillment. Cut off the source that feeds those appetites. I don't believe we should forget those who were lost but the loss is distinct from the offender.
As for the results of activism - yes, sometimes it works. I believe in advocacy - and live a life that backs up my convictions by participating actively. Out of curiousity, did you participate in voicing your views in an arena other than here? My point is exactly that: talk when it matters and to the people who can make a difference. Don't get caught up as fodder in the media wheel.
SamanthaJane
23-06-2006, 20:37
Well im so sorry that i have an opinion. I am sorry that i actually find it wrong that this man was rewarded with luxury items. Im sorry that i actually feel sorry for the families of his victims who were distraught when they found out what he had been rewarded with. Im sorry that i find this scum bag, the worst serial killer in australian history, so inhumane. Im sorry i even bothered to take the time out of my day to talk about his crimes. I'm sorry i seem to have given him some sort of "power" by talking about him.
SJ posted this because she wanted to discuss it...If you dont want to know dont read the thread.:)
Here, Here!!
I just read the whole thread and poor SJ was just discussing a "Current Affair". Isn't that what this forum is for. It is titled Current Affairs, and her topic was in the news!:rolleyes:
If you don't want to read about ppl discussing current affairs then don't read this topic!
I'm sick of these serial thread attackers!:mad:
MammaMia
23-06-2006, 20:51
Well im so sorry that i have an opinion. I am sorry that i actually find it wrong that this man was rewarded with luxury items. Im sorry that i actually feel sorry for the families of his victims who were distraught when they found out what he had been rewarded with. Im sorry that i find this scum bag, the worst serial killer in australian history, so inhumane. Im sorry i even bothered to take the time out of my day to talk about his crimes. I'm sorry i seem to have given him some sort of "power" by talking about him.
SJ - it is not your opinion about rewards in custody that I would take issue with; in fact, I tend to agree that rewards are overused in some situations. For instance, did you know that whilst on remand (as distinct from serving prisoners), prisoners can watch all manner of violent movies? I see you have valid views about the corrective services system.
My position has been explained as to this particular man and those like him.
It should not be assumed that any of us who have posted in this thread do not feel for the families for their loss - which no doubt will never fade, and is sometimes used by the media to fill the gaps in the pages. There are many prisoners who have received similar privileges - prisoners who have committed crimes that would have impacted just as equally on their victims. It is not the numbers of murders that count - it is the principle of rewarding evil that you truly take issue with. The media selects this one for less pure motives than your own: because it will attract public attention, create uproar, and ultimately sell papers.
You are an articulate young woman - and my suggestion was in good faith. Lend your words to an avenue where they will be heard with the potential to make a difference. Write the letters, send the e-mails, start a petition, make the telephone calls to those that can make a difference. I will urge you to get involved - and if you are not already, get enrolled in a degree where your natural abilities are nurtured and reward you and your beliefs.
And Jazzy - you too have missed my point. I am not against discussion about the broader issues: I am against the man. I doubt a young woman of SJ's ability to dissect and discuss issues would ever be truly satisfied with a response that simply echoed her own, for that would be condescending and not a true discussion or reflection of the issues.
I agree with SJ, how can anyone know how the families are feeling!!! To say that having a tv in a cell doesn't make a difference, well obviously made a difference to the families, they were in utter disgust and they have every right to feel whatever they want to feel. If itmakes them feel better that TV has been denied then deny it, after all he took the lifes of the their family members. Does anyono know what i mean???? It doesn't matter what you and i think, but the victims have a right too.
Has anyone thought of this....Hittler was considered to be the eviliest man on earth, well if lived here in our times and he was treated the way our prisoners are, i am sure that would be a huge injustice done! These Evil things are not human they defy whats is human, they do what is unspeakable a sin against nature.
Some people can not be rehabilitated, there is so much proof !!! To many pedophiles that reoffend.
If someone broke into your home to kill your kids, c'mon you just won't sit there and say well justice will take it's course iam sorry, but i will kill anyone who comes near my loved ones and will not think twice. The victims of this murderer didn't get to do that, they lost that chance they feel like they failed!!!! So any trivial thing like a tv in the prisoners room may seem so small, but it's a big deal to the families victims
Do you know what i mean???:confused:
misskittyfantastico
23-06-2006, 21:28
Do people ever really want a discussion? or do they simply want to chat with people who echo their opinion.
Here, Here!!
I just read the whole thread and poor SJ was just discussing a "Current Affair". Isn't that what this forum is for. It is titled Current Affairs, and her topic was in the news!:rolleyes:
If you don't want to read about ppl discussing current affairs then don't read this topic!
I'm sick of these serial thread attackers!:mad:
I don't agree with anyone pouncing on another bub-hubber for voicing their opinions or feelings and I think it is really important to keep things from getting too personal.......but I must say that the whole point of a good discussion involves hearing lots of different viewpoints and opinions?
After all, if everyone that contributed to a thread had to have the same opinion as the person who started it, it might get a tad boring!
i seem to be hearing an echo now....
oh and look it seems to have put a stop to anybody discussing the original topic.
:thumbsup: I can hear it too...
Lets keep it cool guys, maybe to many preggy hormones in here!
Love the J's jazzysmum
I am almost tempted to do that: I have a james, jayden, and no 3 hmmmm maybe jasmine
thanks! we are jaimie,jamie and jasmine! oh and ttc jamieson!
:confused:
Well im so sorry that i have an opinion. I am sorry that i actually find it wrong that this man was rewarded with luxury items. Im sorry that i actually feel sorry for the families of his victims who were distraught when they found out what he had been rewarded with. Im sorry that i find this scum bag, the worst serial killer in australian history, so inhumane. Im sorry i even bothered to take the time out of my day to talk about his crimes. I'm sorry i seem to have given him some sort of "power" by talking about him.
Frankly, I think even if it's out of sarcasm, your use of the word "sorry" is inappopriate. you have a right to feel how you feel about this. Don't apologise!
I think ppl are missing the point. When we say he is having "luxuries", why do those of you who oppose our views immediately view him as being treated inhumanely. He is NOT locked up in a little cell 24/7. I am willing to bet my bottom $ that he has access to a "common room" of some sort. He is also provided with cooked food, so the need for a toaster in his very own bachelor pad, i do not understand. Does he also have his own little fish pool so he can catch his own fresh fish so he doesn't starve to death???? :confused:
My point: he is povided with things that are required to sustain his life. He is provided with food and provided with limited entertainment. He is not locked in a cold cell (yes, i'm certain he has heating and aircon too.. probably better conditions than most of us out here to be honest).
Why does he need to have his own personal tv? What on earth will he do with a toaster??
He doesn't deserve priviledges beyond what any other criminal gets in there.
You want to reward him for his "good behaviour" why not give him the opportunity to learn something. Train him in something, teach him something.. late night tv and watching crime shows will NOT rehabilitate a cold blooded serial murderer... Education might though!
hi all
due to the arguement brewing in this thead - several posts have been deleted by a moderator.. please remember to keep your posts polite and on topic ..
this is a touchy and passionate topic .. and people are obviously not going to agree on a solution - but please remember to re-read posts before actually making them..
- as much as I would love to talk about my family too- maybe we need our own thread? (we are also Js - Jenny, Jamie and Jack) - lets get back on topic ladies!!
thanks
Jenny
Mum2AandJ
23-06-2006, 22:39
I think that this man has destroyed alot of peoples lifes. But here again, people are getting upset at each other about him, is he worth it, we are all here to express our opinion and listen and respect others view points! Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This man is truely evil. But Sometimes in jail providing extra luxuries for these evil men, keeps the guards safe, other inmates safe. Because he wants to keep these things, cause if he misbehaves he will loose them. It is a scary place a prison, and it's the workers the prison would be trying to protect! If that was your husband working in the prison, would you like Ivan Milat to have nothing and be a scary dangerous man, or would you prefer him to have an incentive to keep him quiet and happy and your husband safe???
~EmsMum~
23-06-2006, 22:44
I think that this man has destroyed alot of peoples lifes. But here again, people are getting upset at each other about him, is he worth it, we are all here to express our opinion and listen and respect others view points! Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This man is truely evil. But Sometimes in jail providing extra luxuries for these evil men, keeps the guards safe, other inmates safe. Because he wants to keep these things, cause if he misbehaves he will loose them. It is a scary place a prison, and it's the workers the prison would be trying to protect! If that was your husband working in the prison, would you like Ivan Milat to have nothing and be a scary dangerous man, or would you prefer him to have an incentive to keep him quiet and happy and your husband safe???
Good post krystal!
that is an interesting point, Krystalaa
we are human, even the most evil need something
incentive can be beneficial
Many interesting and valid points have been raised in this thread, and I would like to add my opinion as to the original issue: That Milat was rewarded with extra items, and that those rewards were removed due to public outcry:
If he was rewarded with these items in the prison, then it would seem this is a system they use, and have reasons for. Some have said it is to avoid rioting, others to make the guards lives easier... for whatever reason, this system seems to exist. So Milat doesn't deserve them because it hurts his victim's families?
Where do we draw the line? I don't think pain can be quantified accurately enough for us to judge which prisoners should be eligible for this treatment and which should not. By not allowing him to participate in a reward system because of the pain to those he hurt, are we belittling the pain of others who have suffered through crime? Are we saying someone who's child was raped does not have valid pain if he/she wasn't brutally murdered?
This is why we have a justice system, albeit not a perfect one, because those emotionally involved can't be impartial in the meting out of the punishment! Otherwise we have lynch mobs, and innocence and rights are trampled.
Maybe there should be no reward system in the prisons at all, but then again, maybe it plays an important role? I would be interested in the opinions of this from someone in the justice system, any Corrections Officers out there? :wave: Let us know how it works!
On the second article, that the priviledges were taken away due to public outcry? If this is true then it makes me sad. That these humans, who are locked up at the mercy of the prison system and those administering it, are also subject to the media charged public voice?
As someone else said, any other violent and terrifying prisoner could be getting rewards, and that may hurt his/her victims/victim's family, so is it really the media telling us how to treat individual prisoners?
I am glad that we have a legal and correctional system which is in theory run by impartial people, as I know that if someone I loved was a victim of violent crime that I would be so blinded by rage that I would not be able to make sound judgements as to what should happen to the criminal.
Imogensmum
24-06-2006, 08:59
I know i am jumping inlate here- but after screaming at the radio on my way to work the other morning at all those 'humanitarians' out there who believe that we should reward 'bad peoples' good behaviour i feel i need to put in my two cents....
I think that horrid evil man deserves nothing- absolutely nothing- i think he should just be damn thankful he gets fed each day! If i were his prison guard i'd let him rot.
Him, all rapists, kiddyfiddlers and the like- there is no rehabilitation for these people- prison just keeps US safe for awhile. The tax $'s we put into these prisons would be better spent on prevention of these crimes-- a bullet is a better way to 'rehabilitate' these people and a damn site cheaper.
I know i will get alot of slamming for this but it is what i honestly believe. If it was my child who turned out like ivan or the likes of Ivan- i would be pushing for the same punishment.
Great post BlueGin :thumbsup:
Ana Gram
24-06-2006, 09:36
Just jumping in to mention a few things about where Milat is being housed in prison. He is in a maximum security prison in the "SuperMax" section. This means they are in virtual solitary confinment, have very little contact with other prisoners, they eat all meals in their cell which is soundproofed and under constant video survailance. They are allowed out of their cell for about an hour a day to exercise - by themselves in a small enclosed area.
It is far from being a holiday camp.
Mum2AandJ
24-06-2006, 10:15
Not only that, these are really dangerous men, and they dont have church goer friends on the outside, they know equally dangerous men, in the Ivan Milat case, they have no proof but believe that he had a mate that was also involved with some of the crimes he committed. This man is in there looking for entertainment. He will have contact with other prisioner and guards eventually. and if he has grudges when this happens. He can pass messages to other inmates to hunt guards family and threaten and put innocent lives in danger again. I agree with Blue Gin, they would have these rewards in place for reasons. I personally think a bullet is a much better resolution as well. But unfortuanately Australia does have those laws, He should be rotting in hell.
Lets not pretend Milat it having fun:no:
Sure, he deserves nothing special.
But as long as he isn't free ...
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 11:02
I know i am jumping inlate here- but after screaming at the radio on my way to work the other morning at all those 'humanitarians' out there who believe that we should reward 'bad peoples' good behaviour i feel i need to put in my two cents....
I think that horrid evil man deserves nothing- absolutely nothing- i think he should just be damn thankful he gets fed each day! If i were his prison guard i'd let him rot.
Him, all rapists, kiddyfiddlers and the like- there is no rehabilitation for these people- prison just keeps US safe for awhile. The tax $'s we put into these prisons would be better spent on prevention of these crimes-- a bullet is a better way to 'rehabilitate' these people and a damn site cheaper.
I know i will get alot of slamming for this but it is what i honestly believe. If it was my child who turned out like ivan or the likes of Ivan- i would be pushing for the same punishment.
I agree with u on that one:yes:
pestiferous
24-06-2006, 11:14
Good Lord, how did we go from a toaster to hollywood movie script!
A quick glimps through, I noticed some points made about the families being in an uproar, Families who would probably not have known or cared if a slow news week hadn't led the media to vamp up the story.
I think the only point left to make on the subject is the fact that the story also included the father of a murdered boy, who was not only able to put all of his pain and hatred aside, but actually enters these jails and works WITH these prisinors in the hopes of helping them return to the real world as normal contibuting members of society!!
If there is one part of the story we SHOULD focus on, one point that should be remembered it is this astonishing amount of forgiveness this man showed.
Lets see these ambulance chasing 'current affairs' programs run THAT story in more detail!
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 11:24
Some people say that they dont care that his got a tv, toaster and whatnot, as long as his stuck behind those locked doors then its okay.
I agree with you, in some cases. And u are entitled to that opinion. Yes, you are happy about your own safety and the safety of others, knowing he can not harm people while he is put away.
But to me its not as simple as "as long as he cant hurt me". If it were my daughter or my mother or someone close to me that he murdered, i'd be very hurt to find he was given these items as a"bonus". And, naturally, the families of his victims are very upset that he was given these items. Because these items ARE seen as luxury items in prison! Especially the Supermax prison! I dont know if u have ever seen a prison like the Supermax, but for a serial killer to have his very own personal television and toaster, items classed as luxury privileges in his own prison cell, its a pretty big reward. The Supermax, or the high-risk management unit at Goulburn jail is the toughest jail in Australia. His there because he deserves to be. He deserves to rot and die there with nothing.
The victims will never be satisfied, they will never get over their pain. But if taking away these items makes them feel the slightest bit better about the whole situation then it should be done. I'd much prefer to hear that he is rotting away with nothing to amuse his time, then to hear that his got his own tv so he can tune into the hottest new tv program whilst eating a toasted sandwich. He deserves no prvilieges at all. We may not see these items as a big deal, but i think in the Supermax prison it would be like all your christmases had come at once.
"He had been given a toasted sandwich maker and a television set as a reward for being a model prisoner." A model prisoner? Really? He sets a good example for his peers? How thoughtful of him...
IMO- He doesnt need them, so he shouldnt have them. He doesnt even deserve to live, let alone be living in his cell with "prison luxuries":no:
. Anger does not solve anything, it perpetuates more violence and more heartache. The ability to forgive and show compassion is a human virtue which many humans sadly seem to lack, and one that is a lot harder and shows alot more character than being angry all the time, and one which seperates us from scum bags like Ivan Milat.
Im not saying it is our place to forgive him, or that it will be possible for any of his victims families to do so, or that they even should, but we will never solve anything or move forward if we all look at crime and punishment with payback in mind. This man is being punished, he will continue to live in solitary confinement till his dying day. I hardly think it is your place or anyone elses to deny him a few things such as a tv or books, or whatever other small 'luxuries' may help him pass the long long years.
IMO- He doesnt need them, so he shouldnt have them. He doesnt even deserve to live, let alone be living in his cell with "prison luxuries":no:
Coopsntilly...IMO means.. ^.. SJs opinion....:rolleyes:.she started the thread and everyone keeps having ago at her for stating what she thinks..:no:
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 11:54
I am entitled to my own opinion Coopsntilly. I did not personally attack anybody in post, i even made note that i respected that people will have different opinions.
CarolineF
24-06-2006, 12:13
I have tempered my opinion a little. As far as I am aware, Ivan Milat still maintains his innocence, or his family does on his behalf. However good he is in prison, surely rewards or bonuses should only be given once someone has accepted responsibility for their crimes? Good behaviour should not be enough, on its own it does not show remorse or acceptance of the wrongdoing. Why should someone be rewarded in prison for behaving as normal law abiding citizens are all obliged to every day? :idea:
I undertsand from working within the legal system that the prison system is about rehabilition not retribution. But how can someone be rehabilitated if they do not accept their crimes?
Just a thought!
OscarTheGrouch
24-06-2006, 12:16
Well said CarolineF!:thumbsup:
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 12:23
I undertsand from working within the legal system that the prison system is about rehabilition not retribution. But how can someone be rehabilitated if they do not accept their crimes?
Just a thought!
Thats very true and very interesting!!:thumbsup:
He has never confessed to the crimes. Though, when shown pictures of the murdered victims and asked about the crimes, he laughs.
Nickster
24-06-2006, 12:37
I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but in terms of the dubious "rewards" Milat is getting, I am more than happy to leave the decision about what he gets and when he gets it up to those who have spent a great deal of their lives studying and working within the legal and prison systems. They are the ones who have the real measure of the situation.
Without wanting to sound flippant (although I may - but only to inject humour), do you not think that a lifetime of watching daytime TV in a locked cell is a punishment of it's own?
I am entitled to my own opinion Coopsntilly. I did not personally attack anybody in post, i even made note that i respected that people will have different opinions.
Indeed you are, just as I am enititled to mine. Just because my opinion differs from yours does not mean I disrespect your opinion or you.
Nickster
24-06-2006, 12:57
Um, hello.....?
I think this thread is getting a little off track.....:yes:
How about we get back to the real issue, and not get personal?
CarolineF
24-06-2006, 13:00
Nickster I could not agree more.:thumbsup:
Now come on people....back onto the subject rather than debating who is disrespecting who. And let's leave the sarcasm out if its aimed at fellow bubhubbers.:thumbsdown:
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 13:02
Nickster I could not agree more.:thumbsup:
Now come on people....back onto the subject rather than debating who is disrespecting who. And let's leave the sarcasm out if its aimed at fellow bubhubbers.:thumbsdown:
Sorry girls... i didnt read those posts before i posted... now back to the debate...
Nickster
24-06-2006, 13:04
Can we pleeeeease get back to the original topic, SamanthaJane? You know, the one you started....:rolleyes:
If you want to pick people's posts apart looking for quotes as to what may or may not constitute a personal attack, then you will easily find a wealth of that - it's just whether you want to be that paranoid or not.
Just remember, it's quite hard to do tone over the net.
OK, let's get back to the point here. No point debating whether or not someone disrespected someone else.
Prison isn't a fun day out. You go to prison as punishment, not for further punishment. I don't have a problem with a prisoner have a toaster or a television, because everyone should be treated humanely. Just because a cell has a tv, it still makes it an awfully long way away from being as comfortable as even the tackiest of hotel rooms. Prisoners are not living in luxury, they are being treated humanely. I don't think prisoners are wonderful people or anything, but I do believe that the punishment associated with simply being in prison is huge.
Imagine not being able to decide when you wanted to get up or go to bed. Imagine not being able to decide what you wanted to eat and when. Imagine only seeing your loved ones on particular days for specified periods of time. Imagine not being able to browse in a bookshop, walk on the beach, have a picnic on your loungroom floor on a rainy day, play with your kids, decide on the spur of the moment to go to the local pool for a swim. That loss of freedom is huge. That loss of freedom is punishment.
Don't get me wrong, I loathe what Ivan Milat did, but I don't think that ANYONE should be killed for committing a crime, nor should they be treated inhumanely. If we don't treat our prisoners humanely, we are a long way from being a civilised society.
Great post Bron.:thumbsup:
Imagine not being able to decide when you wanted to get up or go to bed. Imagine not being able to decide what you wanted to eat and when. Imagine only seeing your loved ones on particular days for specified periods of time. Imagine not being able to browse in a bookshop, walk on the beach, have a picnic on your loungroom floor on a rainy day, play with your kids, decide on the spur of the moment to go to the local pool for a swim. That loss of freedom is huge. That loss of freedom is punishment.
.
Being murdered by a serial killer is a heck of a lot worse than not being able to go far a swim.
Of course it is jazzysmum, but you didn't get my point.
I'm not comparing his punishment to what happened to his victims. I'm talking about the loss of freedom associated with going to prison.
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 13:37
On the topic of the Milat murders....
Heres a little info i was just reading....
When Ivan's brother Boris was questioned by police if he thought that Ivan was innocent, he answered, "all my brothers are capable of extreme violence, given the right time and place individually. "He continued, "the things I can tell you are much worse than what Ivan's meant to have done. Everywhere he's worked, people have disappeared, I know where he's been.'
He then asked the police if they thought Ivan was guilty, they replied that they did. "If Ivan's done these murders," he told them, "I reckon he's done a hell of a lot more."
"How many?" they asked.
His reply was disturbing. "About twenty eight."
Recently Milat has been tied to another 6 old murder cases that are freakishly like the previous...
Gosh i actually hope it was him and not a copy cat...
Nickster
24-06-2006, 13:38
Thank you, Bron, your visualisation exercise has worked a charm.:thumbsup:
CarolineF
24-06-2006, 14:21
Punishment is punishment. Most people in our prison system are treated humanely. They get a warm comfortable bed to sleep in, a solid rainproof roof to live under, 3 square meals a day plus snacks etc, an exercise yard, they have books, they can do artwork, they can even undertake further education that many people would normally have to pay for. And they pay not one penny towards it. its rent free.:shame:
A TV is a privilege. A sandwich maker is a privilege. Go out and tell some aussie battlers who are working 2 jobs to make ends meet that a tv and sandwichmaker are human necessities that all should have in a humane society. If they were, Centrelink would be snowed under in claims.:eek:
To treat someone humanely is to provide him with just 4 things that are regarded as human necessities:
Food, shelter, warmth and clothing.:yes:
He is getting far more than many aussies who live on the poverty line.
As the saying goes - if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. :mad:
Very well said!! Caroline
Guys i think sometimes we have to agree to disagree!
Everyone has different opinions on every subject, in the end no one is right or wrong, everyone has different coping mechanisms, for me revenge and the old biblical law "an eye for an eye" is what i feel justice is, but not everyone is the same.
So we should respect everyones opinions.
Saying that i personally think some people do not deserve to live.
I don't think anyone should tell me what to feel as i shouldn't tell you!
RESPECT ALL OPINIONS:thumbsup:
SamanthaJane
24-06-2006, 14:52
Very well said Caroline!:yelclap:
That is a very accurate post!!:yes:
Spot on Caroline... :yelclap:
Great post BlueGin :thumbsup:
Ta Coops :wave:
A TV is a privilege. A sandwich maker is a privilege. Go out and tell some aussie battlers who are working 2 jobs to make ends meet that a tv and sandwichmaker are human necessities that all should have in a humane society. If they were, Centrelink would be snowed under in claims.:eek:
This is a really interesting point, what are essentials? Because to listen to the news, the labour party, and just people I talk to, we as a developed country demand a lot more than the 4 basics.
We demand free education for kids, free health care for those who need it, an income when we don't/can't work, subsidised phamaceuticals, reliable and convenient public transport, the right to vote, equal opportunity for all.
So by society's standards he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of what we see as our needs/rights/just desserts. A sandwich maker or TV (which if you are canny can cost about the price of a family dinner at Maccas) to me just doesn't compare to the basic freedoms and rights that law abiding citizens get. Which is as it should be. He is being denied what in our society are sometimes even referred to as "God given rights", I am sure any prisoner would feel this, they know they are in trouble, and I don't think many of them would be having much fun in there.
He is getting far more than many aussies who live on the poverty line.
There are so many things wrong with our society that people below the poverty line can suffer so much, it is a travesty, but rather than spending our energies trying to bring him down to our lowest point; this should just go to show that we need to do more to bring these good people UP to a more reasonable level of lifestyle.
Of course it is jazzysmum, but you didn't get my point.
I'm not comparing his punishment to what happened to his victims. I'm talking about the loss of freedom associated with going to prison.
mmm... let's not forget though that he wasn't born in prison. He had freedom and look at what he chose to do with his "free time". :no:
CarolineF
25-06-2006, 10:25
This is a really interesting point, what are essentials? Because to listen to the news, the labour party, and just people I talk to, we as a developed country demand a lot more than the 4 basics.
We demand free education for kids, free health care for those who need it, an income when we don't/can't work, subsidised phamaceuticals, reliable and convenient public transport, the right to vote, equal opportunity for all.
So by society's standards he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of what we see as our needs/rights/just desserts. A sandwich maker or TV (which if you are canny can cost about the price of a family dinner at Maccas) to me just doesn't compare to the basic freedoms and rights that law abiding citizens get. Which is as it should be. He is being denied what in our society are sometimes even referred to as "God given rights", I am sure any prisoner would feel this, they know they are in trouble, and I don't think many of them would be having much fun in there.
There are so many things wrong with our society that people below the poverty line can suffer so much, it is a travesty, but rather than spending our energies trying to bring him down to our lowest point; this should just go to show that we need to do more to bring these good people UP to a more reasonable level of lifestyle.
Well, he also gets FREE pharmaceuticals, FREE education (should he want it) and he is not a kid, he does not need an income cos its ALL free. He was born into a free society, a free country allowed his family to cross its borders and welcomed them with open arms. He abused that freedoms that we all take for granted.
I think it would send out a very sad and troubling message if people thought that they could abuse our free society, commit horrific crimes, go to prison but live the same life inside as outside but without the key! :thumbsdown:
I agree that those who live on or below the poverty line do need far more help than is available to them if there is no way they are able to help themselves. But I do not think his quality of life even compares to theirs. They have to worry about having their utilities switched off, not having enough food in the house to feed their kids, being evicted. He and others of his ilk will never have to worry about this again. We are bringing him down to their level, he is sadly way above it financially. But you cannot expect to abuse the law so horrifically and then spend your life exactly as you did before.:mad:
I've said it before and I shall say it again:
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
SamanthaJane
25-06-2006, 10:55
mmm... let's not forget though that he wasn't born in prison. He had freedom and look at what he chose to do with his "free time". :no:
Good point Lut!!:yes:
Well, he also gets FREE pharmaceuticals, FREE education (should he want it) and he is not a kid, he does not need an income cos its ALL free. He was born into a free society, a free country allowed his family to cross its borders and welcomed them with open arms. He abused that freedoms that we all take for granted.
I think it would send out a very sad and troubling message if people thought that they could abuse our free society, commit horrific crimes, go to prison but live the same life inside as outside but without the key! :thumbsdown:
I agree that those who live on or below the poverty line do need far more help than is available to them if there is no way they are able to help themselves. But I do not think his quality of life even compares to theirs. They have to worry about having their utilities switched off, not having enough food in the house to feed their kids, being evicted. He and others of his ilk will never have to worry about this again. We are bringing him down to their level, he is sadly way above it financially. But you cannot expect to abuse the law so horrifically and then spend your life exactly as you did before.
I've said it before and I shall say it again:
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
That is spot on Caroline!!:yelclap:
I like your posts! Always very interesting points!
pestiferous
25-06-2006, 11:12
I think it would send out a very sad and troubling message if people thought that they could abuse our free society, commit horrific crimes, go to prison but live the same life inside as outside but without the key! :thumbsdown:
I hardly think he is having the same life as we do on the outside. as mentioned in a previous post by chellegoth:
He is in a maximum security prison in the "SuperMax" section. This means they are in virtual solitary confinment, have very little contact with other prisoners, they eat all meals in their cell which is soundproofed and under constant video survailance. They are allowed out of their cell for about an hour a day to exercise - by themselves in a small enclosed area.
This is a really interesting point, what are essentials? Because to listen to the news, the labour party, and just people I talk to, we as a developed country demand a lot more than the 4 basics.
We demand free education for kids, free health care for those who need it, an income when we don't/can't work, subsidised phamaceuticals, reliable and convenient public transport, the right to vote, equal opportunity for all.
So by society's standards he doesn't seem to be getting a lot of what we see as our needs/rights/just desserts. A sandwich maker or TV (which if you are canny can cost about the price of a family dinner at Maccas) to me just doesn't compare to the basic freedoms and rights that law abiding citizens get.
Which is as it should be. He is being denied what in our society are sometimes even referred to as "God given rights", I am sure any prisoner would feel this, they know they are in trouble, and I don't think many of them would be having much fun in there.
There are so many things wrong with our society that people below the poverty line can suffer so much, it is a travesty, but rather than spending our energies trying to bring him down to our lowest point; this should just go to show that we need to do more to bring these good people UP to a more reasonable level of lifestyle.
Well said bluegin.
I don't have anything more to add as posters like Pestiferous, Bluegin and Bron etc have stated how I feel more eloquently than I ever could.
I think it's great that for the most part, people have been respectful and have been arguing the topic, and not personalising it.
Thanks pestiforous, I am glad you understood what I was trying to get at.
And BJelly, I am glad to be of service ;):p
CarolineF - I am certainly not promoting the idea of prisoners living the same way inside prison as out, I am merely trying to point out that there are a lot of rights and freedoms Australians demand, and for good reason... and he did forfeit the right to a lot of these, and they are being taken away as a part of his punishment and to my mind a sandwich maker and TV in no way are equivalent to the things he has lost by breaking the law. I don't think they make up for a loss of freedom, so I therefore think they don't detract from the punishment meted out to him.
I whole heartedly agree with you that the daily grind is far tougher for someone living in poverty than for a prisoner, the basics like providing yourself and family with heating, lights, food... these are harder on the outside. That is actually the point I am trying to make. Instead of saying he is better off than these people, let's rephrase this to a social statement:
That for an Australian prisoner to be considered to be treated humanely we must provide them with adequate food, shelter, warmth, opportunity for excercise, and mental stimulation. How then can we let some of our law-abiding citizens live life without so many of these needs? Do they have a lesser claim on us to be sure of what essentials we consider necessary human rights?
In this way there is hope for change. No one should be forced by circumstance or life choice to live in danger and/or misery, even those who break the law
CarolineF
25-06-2006, 12:55
I have no problem with that!:)
Bluegin you have said some great things, and I agree with you as you know :)
The essentials of life imo also include human contact and/or mental stimulation, to deny somebody these basic things month after month, year after year is a form of torture of the worse possible kind.
CarolineF
25-06-2006, 16:06
Perhaps he should have thought about that before he decapitated one of his victims and tortured all the rest.
We must remember that he is in solitary for 2 reasons:
1. To protect other people from him
2. But also, to protect him from other prisoners who would, in all likelihood, decide to mete out some form of revenge as does happen with many paedophiles, rapists etc.
I do not believe in the death penalty at all, but I do think that this man is fortunate that he still has his life..however mundane it may be. He is being protected from those that would want to kill him for his crimes, i for one would not be sad if he was placed back in the general prison population. Let him spend his life looking over his shoulder, feeling the terror of being stalked, thinking that someone is out to get you.
I believe in people doing their time and the possibility of rehabilitation. I don't believe anymore in violent prisoners being treated with kid gloves. If he were to show some element of remorse, and understanding for his victims and their families...perhaps more sympathy maybe directed at him for his lack of a TV.
So far, only one of his brothers has had the bravery to stand up and say he believes his brother was not only guilty, but probably committed more crimes than those for which he was convicted. The rest still proclaim his innocence, and some people believe one of them could also have been involved with him.
What annoys me about this general news story is that this man is getting far more airtime and notoriety than he deserves. How ridiculous is this world when we get to the point that people are feeling sorry for a serial killer because he does not have a toaster or a TV. All this over a bl**dy toaster and a TV.:eek:
Where in the world have we gone wrong?:detective:
SamanthaJane
25-06-2006, 16:11
Its not like he has absoloutley no connection with people at all.
He is allowed limited visits from family members if they choose to visit him.
He is allowed to receive letters from people also.
He is allowed out of his cell at certain times each day.
The point of a supermax prison is that you lose all freedom. Deciding to be a serial killer automatically gives you the consequence of being shut away in a high risk facility, with no access to the outside world.
Like caroline has said, if you cant do the time, dont to the crime.
Perhaps he should have thought about that before he decapitated one of his victims and tortured all the rest.
:yelclap:Caroline spot on. He has to suffer the consequences of his actions
sopolicha
25-06-2006, 21:31
Where in the world have we gone wrong?:detective:
Here is a start, letting complete idiots and morons raise children.
Thinking that it is the child's right to spend time with it's natural parents, regardless of the parent's capablilities or state of mind.
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