Parental consent

[emilysmumma]

Our little guy is due to arrive in 5 weeks time.
I am adamant that he will not be circumcised whilst my DH is adamant that he will be-just like him.

My question is, are both parents required to consent to circumcision or can it be done with only the one parents say so?
Obviously I'm hoping the answer is that both parents need to agree on it for a doctor to do it, so please tell me how they go about the paperwork part of it.

Cheers

[~Emmylou~]

The law states that only one parent is required to give consent, except in cases of divorce/custody arrangements - then the consent of both is required.

However, due to the emotive nature of circumcision (and the possibility of legal repurcussions down the track that is making more doctors increasingly nervous about doing it), you'll find that most doctors will want the consent of both parents. Particularly in cases where it's the father presenting the child for the procedure.

But legally, they don't have to have both.

It's a bit of a grey area :(

[JabberJaw]

You will be hard pressed finding a doctor to do it anyhow i think you will find.

[Hokey Pokey]

Would your hubby really do that behind your back?

[BreakfastatTiffanys]

Would your hubby really do that behind your back?

I was thinking this too...

As far as I know only one parent needs to consent.

[Fuchsia!]

If your husband is willing to do this behind your back is telling you that he is deicietful.

Maybe you could make a compromise and suggest that you leave it up to your son to decide when he is 16yrs old. That way if your son wants to be like his father he can.

[emilysmumma]

In Brisbane there is Dr or two that specialise only in cirumcision so I'm sure DH would find them easy enough on a google search.

Would he go behind my back? I would never in my wildest dreams think he would do that but he has basically said he would. But considering I'm an attachment mummy that doesn't let bubs out of my sight or away from my boobs, he will have to snatch him out of my cold dead hands to take him.

No Dh is more likely to try and wear me down with his p!ss poor reason of an excuse to finally get me to agree. And you don't come in between a mother and her bear cub.

I was just hoping I had the law on my side that's all.

[Hokey Pokey]

If my hubby did this behind my back that would be the end of us!

[WorkingClassMum]

my DH is adamant that he will be-just like him.



So you need to educate him;

If your bub has different colored eyes, will he make Ds wear contacts?

If bubs has your shaped nose or mouth will he make him have plastic surgery?

If bubs has different colored hair, will he dye it?

If bubs ends up taller or shorter, will he break his legs or make him wear high heels?

How often will bubs and dad compare appendages?

If bubs IQ is greater than dads will he insist that bubs has a lobotomy?

If Bub's schlong is longer than dads - will he insist on cutting off a little more?

BTW - point out to Dad that less than 10% of boys are being snipped these days, so he may look like dad, he'll never look like most of his friends


Is he willing to risk the chances of a GA?

Does he really want to inflict that pain on his new baby?

[Mummaholic]

Have you tried showing your dh anti circ studies/threads to show him why you and others are so against it.

Thesedays it would make him unusual in the locker room as according to statistics, most boys are uncirced. Almost the opposite of what it was a generation or two ago.

I should mention also that both my brother and I had no idea that our dad was circed until about a year or two ago :laughing: despite showering with him many times as a kid. So much as needing to be the same, we never even noticed! My brother is uncirced as is dh (both under 30)and our sons.

[emilysmumma]

WCM I have over and over showed him facts and figures and thrown everything I can find at him about how circumcision does not need to be done.

But he obviously has his own insecurity issues about his son looking like him ( I know I've done all the hair, nose, height etc is different). I've pointed out to him that he is pushing his own issue on a innocent baby but he is being a stubborn pig about it.

He just remembers that with his first marriage and first son who is now nearly 23 yo, that "he just had this little plastic ring on that fell off a few days later" so it can't be that bad.
My answer was 'well were you there for when they put it on to hear the crying it invoked'.

He is certain he doesn't want it to hurt him and will only have it done when he has found the non painful way to do it (he is so stupid sometimes) and I appreciate that he cares and loves bub to not want to hurt him but I'm sure a specialist circumcisor (if there is such a word) could convince DH that it is a non painful procedure.

[Looshkin]

Have you tried showing your dh anti circ studies/threads to show him why you and others are so against it.




:iagree:

There is some great info in a few of the threads by JohnC including stats, debunking some myths about it, and some really eye opening graphic explanations of what is really being done on the comparison of the adult penis and the function.
My DF was :eek::eek::eek: when he sat down and read through the websites and saw the pics and explanation of the function of the foreskin, and learned the reasoning of the origins (to stop people masturbating as the foreskin provided a natural gliding function of the penis)and the changes through time as to justify it, that have been warped and twisted to fit a reason that is relative to popular culture at the time, but for each time period seems to be a 'different reason'

He said he is glad I wouldn't want that for my sons as he is *dead set* against it, more than he thought possible.. I think a lot of the information provided is very eye opening.
Do a search in the discussion areas.
I will try to find some links, maybe you could print out the webpages that are linked in the threads? Or sit down with him and rationally discuss the pro's and cons?

I think Jaxcoops idea of coming to some sort of compromise i.e leaving until he is at least 16 to make the decision himself is a very very good one.:yes:

Discuss the pro's of having it done later
1. the son makes the decision on the cosmetic surgery own genitals
2. Anesthetic and anti inflamitory pain killers -post op - can be utilised, which are not used in newborns which I don't understand anyone would believe don't feel the pain or don't 'need' painkillers simply because they are too young to have them.

Good luck, I do believe education and facts are the key here. :yes: A lot of information I've come across describes circed men that have either read info and researched it later in life and regretted doing it simply to 'look like them' or have changed their mind before hand.

[Fuchsia!]

In Brisbane there is Dr or two that specialise only in cirumcision so I'm sure DH would find them easy enough on a google search.

Would he go behind my back? I would never in my wildest dreams think he would do that but he has basically said he would. But considering I'm an attachment mummy that doesn't let bubs out of my sight or away from my boobs, he will have to snatch him out of my cold dead hands to take him.

No Dh is more likely to try and wear me down with his p!ss poor reason of an excuse to finally get me to agree. And you don't come in between a mother and her bear cub.

I was just hoping I had the law on my side that's all.

Its awesome to see a mother standing up for her sons rights. Thank you for breaking the cycle. Well done for standing up for yourself

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[emilysmumma]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Jaxcoop.

[MooMum]

But he obviously has his own insecurity issues about his son looking like him ( I know I've done all the hair, nose, height etc is different). I've pointed out to him that he is pushing his own issue on a innocent baby but he is being a stubborn pig about it.


My question is how often is anyone looking at him or DS to know there is a difference?!:confused::confused: Unless you are a nudist family I'm not sure this argument has much weight at all.

I'm not going into circ arguments. What I will do is wish you much strength in fighting for your son. Crazy be the one who tries to come between a mother and her young :yes:

[bigglet]

Do you need a doctor referral to the specialist?

I'm unsure about this but maybe you could go to your family doctor and mention that you are against having your son circ'd so that if your DH tries to get a referral your doctor knows of your wishes?

I don't know but I do hope your DH does a bit more research and have a better argument than just wanting his son to look like him!

[serendipity22]

What an unpleasant situation.

Many circumcised men feel very insecure (and jealous) of having a son who does not suffer the loss they had to.

They would rather circumcise their son rather than feel the painful emotions associated with their own circumcision. (Largely unconscious behaviour, but no excuse really)

Very immature and selfish, but unfortunately all too common.

Educate him the best you can, sometimes watching a circumcision video (pm me for a link) can work for some men.

If that doesn't work, you need to protect the son in any way you can.

[andrewJ]

to not circumcise his son, is to admit that his own penis is not perfect.


Motivated reasoning (believing what you like the sound of, and rejecting what you dont) is a very common thing for all humans to engage in. we arent all as rational as we like to think. When it comes to men and their genitals, this is even more so.

If the debate was simply about reason and evidence, it would have been over long ago. But it isnt, there are deep grained emotions involved.

[Roopee]

Show him some videos of the apparent 'non invasive' procedure.

I highly doubt, after watching the pain, screaming and shock on the faces of those innocent little babies, that he will go through with it. Those youtube clips have saved many a little doodle.

[emilysmumma]

Oh boy, what a doozy this morning. DH brought the subject up saying just because he had gone quiet on it didn't mean he had changed his mind.

As you said AndrewJ it is an emotive subject because the facts just won't do for my DH.
His reasoning still, regardless of the 90% of the population and the experts is that he doesn't want his son to be different to him 'down there' or different to his older brother or the rest of the males in the family. Arrrrgh!

Unlike him I have done all the reasearch and given him all the facts etc etc and have an argument for every single one of his pathetic reasonings, but it still is not getting through. That is why I was hoping that the law was on my side in regards to having both parents consent to the procedure.

I've said he is obviously putting his own issues onto a poor little bub but still it doesn't bother him.
He is adamant though that it is to be done with 'no pain' as soon as possible after birth. Not a GA after 6 months of age because I won that cause with putting a little bub under a GA for no medical reason.

So is there a way to do it without pain before, during or after? I think not but can any one direct me to somewhere with info on it as I'm not getting too far myself.
I'm actually going to show him a utube clip of it done but it looks like with no painkillers as it is horrible to hear let alone watch. Maybe showing him the procedure will shock him enough as he has only known how his son 23 years ago came out fine with a plastic ring that fell off a few days later.

But even if bubs is not done (which I keep saying will happen over my dead body), DH is carrying on by saying that it will make him estranged from his son for the rest of his life because he isn't the same as him......go figure how f**ked up that is.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

In Brisbane there is Dr or two that specialise only in cirumcision so I'm sure DH would find them easy enough on a google search.

Would he go behind my back? I would never in my wildest dreams think he would do that but he has basically said he would. But considering I'm an attachment mummy that doesn't let bubs out of my sight or away from my boobs, he will have to snatch him out of my cold dead hands to take him.

No Dh is more likely to try and wear me down with his p!ss poor reason of an excuse to finally get me to agree. And you don't come in between a mother and her bear cub.

I was just hoping I had the law on my side that's all.
I agree with workingclassmum and Mummaholic.

Also if my husband went behind my back to do something like that, that I was dead against, then I would leave him.

I would get all the anti circ research you can get your hands on, and tell your DH to find peer reviwed academic arguments to refute what you show him, and then maybe you would consider it.

My DH is circ'd and my son is not, and it hasn't bothered either in the slightest.

[indigoin0z]

oh i feel for you so much..:hugs:

i was there 6 years ago..
now i have 3 sons!!!!

i finally badgered [manipulated/insulted/abused] my husband enough in the end with all the stuff you have/are doing & got through it in the end.

im guessing your situation may be even more stubborn, because of the age thing.. he is more mature [& likely into old-stubborn-thinking] moreso.
i felt one-up on my DH, so i knew i would win in the end.

i was also hoping at the time he couldnt do it -legally- on his own, but he constantly threatened me he could & would.

6 years later.. i have 3 intact precious boys.
PHeWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

now of course he jumps on the arrogant, judgemental bandwagon attacking others about it. such a #@% (#@%) hypocryt :banghead::hair::crying:

just keep on it lovey.. fight [well, dont stress & upset yourself - thats hardly good for you or bub!] to the end.. education is the key.
just keep dumping, sending, placing strategically thought out information.

sending you and your bub magic fairy dust.:babydust2::wizard: to wash away the pathetic attitudes of the ******** males' 'theory'..........................

[bigglet]

But even if bubs is not done (which I keep saying will happen over my dead body), DH is carrying on by saying that it will make him estranged from his son for the rest of his life because he isn't the same as him......go figure how f**ked up that is.

I think your DS would be more comfortable knowing he is the same as his peers rather than his father or his uncles. I mean really, with peers the boys can and do compare but how many boys compare it with their father and uncles and if they do.... then.... :o

My DS is uncirc'd but his father, uncles, grandfather etc are all circ'd but we don't sit around the dining table discussing it or looking at it and all of these adults don't even know that shock horror my boy is "different" to them down there.

I've asked my DH what he would do when our DS is older and asks why his looks different to his Dad and my DH just said that he will say that it was standard procedure back in his time but not now. And that some people do it for religious reasons and some people do it for personal reasons and if he really wants it done then when he's an adult he can decide then. He's not going to make a big deal out of it. Some people have it done, others don't. Just like some people have their ears pierced and some don't. Well kinda.... :p

[forbetoel]

My Dh is circumcised, and my boys are NOT. They have never ever questioned why their penis looks different from daddy's penis. They are far more concerned with looking like their peers.
I started a thread last year about a poor little boy who was circumcised being teased at school because of his 'weird' looking penis. (not my words,the words of this childs peers.). Needless to say I have educated my sons on circumcision and they know better to ever say anything to a circumcised boy, but there are a lot of kids that don't know any better. I for one would be far more concerned about that.
It's just weird anyway...I have never heard a woman comment that she hates how her daughters vagina looks different to hers.

[BigRedV]

WCM I have over and over showed him facts and figures and thrown everything I can find at him about how circumcision does not need to be done.

But he obviously has his own insecurity issues about his son looking like him ( I know I've done all the hair, nose, height etc is different). I've pointed out to him that he is pushing his own issue on a innocent baby but he is being a stubborn pig about it.



Tell your DH that his son will be standing in the showers after a match of footy with his uncirced mates, not his dad :)

[MamaKoala]

In Brisbane there is Dr or two that specialise only in cirumcision so I'm sure DH would find them easy enough on a google search.


I was just hoping I had the law on my side that's all.

While there was no paperwork that required both signatures when I had my boys done (In one of the Brisbane clinics) I think you should send a letter to both clinics saying that if the child comes in that you do not consent to having him circumcised and that if he is found to be circumcised by either of the clinics that you would take legal action against them.
Also call a family solicitor and ask if there is a way to block him from consenting alone to this particular procedure.

You also do not need a referral to have your child circumcised as it is not classed as major surgery. You just book them in and take them (at least that was what it was 5 years ago).

Your DH doesn't know how he is going to feel about the baby yet but I doubt this will have as much of an emotional impact on him as he seems to think. I can't really understand how he thinks this will stunt his emotional bonding as it is something that is barely noticed and over time he will see less and less of as the boy becomes private about his body and clothe himself. Why is he so hung up on something that eventually will have absolutely nothing to do with him?

I think its more important for you to stand your ground and ask that he wait until your son is at an age where he can decide for himself whether he wants his foreskin removed.

Your DH seems to be missing the fact that your sons organs are his own.

I know my mother made the decision not to circumcise my brothers even though my dad is and my father respected that it was a dated tradition and wasn't necessary. He also decided that my brothers could decide for themselves later in life and it was only ever mentioned once by one of my brothers when he was 19 but was never acted on. (He couldn't fathom having his penis stuck in a plastic ring for up to 4 weeks while it healed and the stitches disolved)

Wishing you all the strength you need to be firm and come to some resolution that doesn't result in you doing something you are so strongly against.

[MamaKoala]

Sorry about the novel!