Smacking

[mum2bubba]

I don't want to have this thread turn into a debate and I apologise if it does,

I am seriously at my wits end with Skye constantly hitting people (mostly Hayley) I have told her not to a zillion times, put her in time out, taken things from her (she often hits with an object like a toy or something) but nothing works. I have been told that I need to be more firm and give her a smack. I am not a smacker though (I have in the past but only a light tap on the hand and its when the kids keep touching things that are dangerous). I actually did smack Skye on the hand just before (it wasn't hard) because I was sick of her hitting Hayley (she was hitting her on the head with a torch) also Hayley doesn't speak up for herself, she just sits there and cries (understandable I guess if you're being hit on the head and it hurts but I'd like her to at least say something, tell her "no, I don't like it" or whatever). I feel bad for smacking her but I don't know what else to do. I seperate the kids but it doesn't last long.

So my question: Should I continue to smack Skye if she keeps hitting? I have always thought it was a bit silly to smack/hit a child when you're trying to teach them NOT to hit but honestly I don't know what to do anymore.

TIA.

[JabberJaw]

Mmmm, i wouldn't. It seems like you are contradicting what you are saying by your own actions IE. Smacking your child because she is smacking....sends mixed messages i would think.

I try to distract my kids (i know it never works for long) but basically they seem to have trouble communicating there feelings therefore they lash out and smack. I make them sit down, look me in the eye and get them to try and tell me how they are feeling, and then we tell the other sibling that. Its a long slow process but it is paying off.

[SuperGranny]

hi mum2bubba, I can only suggest that you have to keep doing what you are doing. It must not ever be allowed, regardless of what hayleys reaction, skye, must stop hurting her sister. There is never any reason for chiildren to hit other children and if you allow skye to continue she will be hit by other children if not by hayley. I hope she grows out of it, but I think you have to be very strict, and just make her stop. whether you have to smack her or time out, or take toys away, or lock her in her bedroom, it has to stop. good luck, Marie.

[~Candy~]

:iagree: I have gone through this stage with all 4 of my kids now...I have persisited with MY way..yes, I smack. My youngest has just got out of this..he always threw things at his siblings or hit them, so I would smack on the back of his hand or his butt and tell him "naughty"...if he kept it up, I would put him in his room for a few minutes then go in and talk to him.
I know they are only young, but they DO understand...it IS a phase...persistance with your rules and she will eventually learn.....she is trying you at this stage and also learning how to control her anger ect.

[Nan]

Hi there! :wave:
If you don't want to go down the smacking route you could try positive reinforcement. My daughter is constantly harassing her little brother....not hitting as such but just CONSTANTLY in his face. We tried all the usual forms of discipline (like you) to try and find something that would work but nothing did. In the end we decided to reward her every day that she DIDN'T harass him. So at the end of the day she gets a little chocolate with her dessert (if we're having dessert, most often the chocolate IS the dessert!!) if she hasn't harassed DS.

It works for TT too. Now that she is in knickers full time, she gets a choccie or marshmallow on the mornings she keeps her night pull up dry. This is working really well.

Hope that helps.

Oh, and good on you for teaching Hayley to say 'stop it' etc. I found with my DS it became learned behaviour - almost like being hit was ok. So he'd just cry and let her do it thinking that it was his lot in life. Poor thing. I have since taught him to say 'stop' and he yells it out now. When I'm not close by I can hear him & DD knows he doesn't like it. They have to stand up for themselves.

[Bunnyhugs]

Hmmm.... in this case I would probably say 'don't hit' then smack her hand and say 'see? it's not nice is it?'

It might work cos maybe she doesn't realise that what she's doing is actually unpleasant for the other person?

I'd combine this with the positive reinforcement thing too.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I do think that smacking for smacking would send a very confusing message.

I would take the torch off of her and put it away. As Misskelz suggested I would seperate them and ask the one who was hit to try and tell me what was wrong. I would also say to her every time to ask say to her sister firmly "Stop, No". I know it is time consuming, however in the end she will probably end up saying it her self.
I would then quickly speak to the hitter and tell them it was not on, it hurts and that they need to think about what they have done. Then I would focus on the one who was hurt and spend some time cheering them up.

[NibbleCurlynBub]

When DS1 has done similar things, either I will stand behind DD and put my hand out and sternly say STOP and encourage DD to do it too, or he will lose the toy/object in question.

[2littlemonkeys]

hi i completely agree with anyone who said they think it would be sending her mixed signals if you are hitting her for hitting her sister then its just a big circle of who is hitting who ,

if she is hitting her sister and she is being punished for it then oviously what she is doing is wrong , i dont believe just because you are someone's mother doesn't give anyone the right to hit another person ,hit smack what ever we want to call it ,
how old is she is she old enough to understand what you are saying to her if she does i would try telling her that hitting is not nice and how would she feel if it was someone hitting her , tell her remember to use your words if there is something you want or come to get you if there is a problem , some times a bit of tough love is required but in a sense of being consistent in what you say and do if you say you are going to put her in time out then mean it if you say she will loose a toy then mean it , kids are smart if we just say these things then never follow them through they will see no reason to listen as they know it wont happen any way , hitting is attension seeking , if she is hitting find a quick punishment say it mean it do it :-) then focus on your other child by doing something with her ignoring the the child who is hitting , dont drag it out so a lot of time is wasted talking about it

good luck :-)

[Fizzgig75]

When DD was kicking the cat (just before she turned 2) we would use the approach of punishment and reward as a last resort. I believe kids need an instant negative and disapproval but at some stage positive reinforcement of appropriate behaviour is required to round it off.

Initially I will always try to focus on correcting the behaviour, i.e no, it hurts to kick the cat, he much prefers lovely gentle pats.

But when this doesn't work her instant 'punishment' was to have her favourite thing taken off her, for instance she had a little LaaLaa doll that she LOVED. When she kicked the cat I warned her that LaaLaa would be taken off her and put away if she did it again. If she did it I took LaaLaa off her and put her in the hutch behind the glass door (so she could see her, I'm so mean!). She would get LaaLaa back when she did the right thing, like the next time she was nice to the cat I would give her LaaLaa back. At other times (when LaaLaa wasn't hostage) I would reinforce by saying see how much he loves nice pats? Or if something is really a big problem I anticipate on using activites or similar as a reward, for instance, 'You were so good with the cat today giving him lots of cuddles, what game would you like to play? Oh and once she knew the consequence of the behaviour I would then ask her what would happen if she kicked the cat rather than give her a warning iykwim?

When DH and I are really consistent with this type of approach it works a treat for us, much better than the smacks she has received (which I think hurt me as much as her :( )

[MummyGoingMad]

I just looked at your sig to see Skye's age, and am not surprised its the same age as my DS as im having the same problem with him. DD will hit occassionally when shes very angry, but DS hits *constantly*, when hes angry and for no reason, just to be rough.

I dont know what to suggest, if I knew I would have fixed DS by now :laughing: but I wouldnt feel comfortable smacking DS as its a bit hypocritical I feel... and any type of punishment can have the same effect if done consistently, i dont think smacking would make much difference to what im already doing - telling off, using the naughty corner if he is really bad and +ve reinforcement when hes good. And nope its not really working but I think they will grow out of it and its a matter of being consistent and trying to get through it!!!

[crazymuma]

I won't tell you what to do with your child I will only tell you what I found worked with mine.

I believe in smacking children.

My son went through this stage - I smacked and asked him how he liked it - made him realise how it felt when he did it to others.
Same as when he started biting - I would bite him (not hard) back - and honestly it didn't take long for the bad behaviour to stop.

All children are different though - my daughter responds more to a time out - I don't smack her as it only makes the behaviour worse.

I have two friends who have rough children and they don't believe in smacking - they time out, take toys, bribe, yell, talk about it - everything but the smack and honestly I hate them being around my children as at times they are outright dangerous - I seriously believe these children (4 and 6) could do with a good hard smack - might finally teach them what it feels like.

[mum2bubba]

Yeah, I know a few kids who need to be smacked everyone now and then and Skye is one of them. I just feel really bad for doing so. I smacked her the other day and also yesterday because I had had enough. She didn't cry but she stopped in her tracks and looked at me as if to say 'wtf, mum?' I was smacked as a kid (as were my sisters) and I wasn't scared of my parents, I knew they did it to teach us right from wrong and they loved us and all that, but I was also bashed by my step mother and just feel as though if I smack I am scared I might do it too hard or something. I don't think parents who smack are bad parents either. I always try other things before I even think about smacking (I smack very rarely, haven't actually smacked for a long time until recently) I put her in time-out, talk to her, ignore her, take things, distract her etc but I am at the end of my rope some days.

[justmum]

Personally I really don't think smacking is the answer.

Teaching a child not to smack because they are scared of being hit for it isn't the answer for us - we believe that children stop smacking because they are afraid of being hit, not because they understand it is wrong.

We also believe that smacking is about us and not about the child. It is an expresson of our frustration and is not a reflection of the child's behaviour.

We have been at wits end with DS' aggression and have had good success with the 1-2-3 Magic program. We have persisted with it and it works because it warns DS that his behaviour is not acceptable and gives him the chance to choose better behaviour before consequences.

If he gets to 3 there are consequences (in the case of physical violence he gets 2 minutes of time out, but that is the only time he gets time out, otherwise we have other naturally flowing consequences).

Whatever you choose to do, it needs to be clear, consistent and simple. She needs to understand why you are doing what you are doing and the same consequences need to flow from the same behaviour.

[MummyGoingMad]

I disagree that smacking will teach a kid what it feels like, as DS is hit by DD and by other kids so he knows what it feels like.

I'm not against smacking, I was smacked as a kid if I was really naughty and I think my parents were fabulous ones, I just dont get that logic.

[Shananaaah]

As far as teaching your other daughter to say "stop" or whatever, we found it to be REALLY effective when other mums and I (cos we were usually at playgroup) or DH and I modelled it.

For example, DH would take something off me while DS was watching and I would say "Stop! I don't like it! Please share with me" and DH would say sorry and give it back etc. If DS did something to me or DH, we would do the same exercise until he picked up on what we were doing and found the confidence to do the same when he was in the reverse role. It has really worked for us!

[mum2bubba]

I just ended up screaming at Skye before because I had had enough of her tantrums. I was trying to change her nappy and she kept trying to get away (does it all the time) and she threw a huge tantrum. I screamed at her to stop, she kept trying to hit me with a kalidoscope (sp) she has been hitting and throwing things at Hayley too (though Hayley annoys her at times so it sets her off) I smacked her on her thigh. I feel like a rotten parent. I hate smacking, I hate screaming, I never had to scream at a child before Skye came along. Hayley was an easy baby and toddler but Skye tests me every day (Hayley has started to now that she is a bit older and also now she has a sibling). I want to be a good mother, I want my kids to be happy but I cannot cope. I feel like sh!t. I have put Skye down for a nap without lunch (she had an apple and a drink before though) because I am scared I will hurt her. Why is parenting so damn hard? I try positive parenting but it doesn't work. I told Skye I was sorry I smacked her and sorry I screamed at her, she gave me a cuddle and I just broke down and started crying (damn pregnancy hormones!). I think from now on when she throws a tantrum or whatever I am going to put her in her room, close the door and let her cry. That way I won't be a bad mother and I won't feel so guilty.

My kids are going to hate me.

[missie_mack]

Do you think that perhaps this has a little to do with your daughters special needs? ie her inability to communicate what she wants the way she wants so she acts it out in frustration??

I think you mentioned in other threads you were looking into sending her to a special needs assessment team and program to help her development. They might be able to shed some light on how best to deal with this situation as it isn't uncommon behaviour for children with her developmental concerns particularly as they tend to crave independent play. Perhaps having some things that are exclusively hers that her sister isn't allowed to touch and a place of her own that she can go to when she wants to be on her own would help?

[mum2bubba]

Hayleys the one with the speech impedement not Skye.

I do try and seperate the girls but it doesn't always work. I am slowly converting the playroom into Skye's room so she has her own things and Hayley has hers so hopefully that works. They were playing 'Connect Four' before but it was about 2 minutes before they started fighting so I took it off them and said if they can't play nice then they don't get any toys to play with.

[missie_mack]

Hayleys the one with the speech impedement not Skye.

:doh: Of course... I knew that but thought it was Hayley you were talking about.... its very typical behaviour for a 2 year old. I have noticed my DS 2.5 does this in some situations too... welcome to the horrid twos (somedays they are just far worse than terrible lol)

I think you were just lucky to have a quiet one the first time around ;).... all children should come with remotes so you can place them on standby :p

[Areca]

DD1 was notorious for wanting to hurt DD2 when she was a 2 year old (and DD2 was only a few months old). She loved to hit her..bare handed or with toys and put her ina head lock and ram her face in to the tiles. I tried everything bar smacking but she just got to the point where she would wait until I was a fair enough distance and do it repeatedly as many times as she could before I stopped her.
We did time outs, I took the toys off her that she used, I lost my cool a hundred times, sent her to bed early and at my last resort pulled apart her doll's house and threw it in the bin (it was mine and falling apart so it was a good way to get rid of it also). I don't agree with smacking, and do not believe that some children need to be smacked so it wasn't a path I was willing to take.

I went looking for alternatives and a wise woman suggested that I simply don't give her the oppurtunity to do it. It meant never leaving their side for two weeks and every time DD1 went to attack DD2 I'd not say a word, stop her from doing it and distract her. So she wasn't getting any attention for it but she also wasn't getting the chance to hurt her little sister either. At times she was so determined I'd have to pick DD1 up and take her outside to distract her (removing DD2 was only going to make DD1 jealous and have her lash out more so it was better to take DD1 with me and distract her, then we both went back to DD2) They could play well together and they did, but once DD1 was done she'd hurt DD2. So when she was playing nicely with DD2 with her I'd comment on how nice she was playing with the toy she was playing with, rather than complimenting the way she was behaving with her sister. So still praising her, and encouraging the behaviour, but taking the focus off it being with DD2. It took 2 weeks. The first week was full on because I never left their side but DH helped pick up the slack with regards to the housework at the end of the day. The second week I knew I could leave their side to do something that was in that room.
We've never gone back. DD1 still smacked DD2 occasionally but she didn't ram her face in to the tiles anymore, the smacking was rare and we could then focus on getting her to call out to me when DD2 was doing something she didn't like so I could stop her from doing it rather than resorting to smacking (and we used the example 'we don't smack you when you're doing something we don't like plenty of times) and life became much easier.
It seems like a bit of a ridiculous way to handle it and I was very skeptical that it would work but it worked like a charm and it's been well over a year since we did it (probably about 18 months).

[Sheer Bliss]

DS does the same thing to DD, and it is sooo frustrating! It's hard, because they both like to wrestle and play together, then one of them ends up getting hurt and starts to cry :hair:. IT got much worse while I was sick during my pregnancy, and now with newborn twins, I dont' have time to referee all the time and try and stop it from happening. So mostly, I have been trying to teach them both to communicate with words rather than their hands. Telling each other to stop, I don't like that, please stop that etc etc. is how I am handling it for now. They both understand that, and it is slowly starting to make a difference. The biggest part IMO is recognising WHY the hitter is hitting, and addressing that. It varies from child to child and so different approaches are needed. With DS, he gets frustrated because he isn't getting what he wants, which is why I am placing the emphasis on communication. If he see's her telling him she doesn't like it, I am hoping it will help him learn to communicate better too. The other reason he does it, is to get attention, so when he hits DD, she is the one who receives the attn. This is hard, not giving him the attn, something i need to remind myself to do.

[mum2bubba]

The other reason he does it, is to get attention, so when he hits DD, she is the one who receives the attn. This is hard, not giving him the attn, something i need to remind myself to do.


I have tried this approach and have had people (family and friends) say to me "why don't you discipline her?" or "you're just letting her get away with it" Then other people that tell me I shouldn't yell or scream or smack. I can't win. :rolleyes::hair:

[Sheer Bliss]

I have tried this approach and have had people (family and friends) say to me "why don't you discipline her?" or "you're just letting her get away with it" Then other people that tell me I shouldn't yell or scream or smack. I can't win. :rolleyes::hair:

:yes: You can't win no matter what you do! I get the same when I ignored DD's tantrums when she was younger - they were purely for attention, which I didn't give to her. Looks from people in the supermarket were the worse. Just ignore them, they don't have to deal with the behaviour on a regular basis.

[AMCC]

do what is right for you...i am old fashioned in my disipline...i do believe that a smack wont hurt, and that a child needs to learn right from wrong, from a young age my daughter was told no and from age 1 she was smacked either on the hand or on the bottom, she is very well behaved now and wen i say no she understands, shes 20 months now, and i look at my friends kids who are of similar age and they are nasty little kids, one of my friends little boys kicks and hits my girls, i think its so wrong...my step daughter who is 15 months is going through a hitting and biting phase and she is gets smacks on her hands and told 'no'. we also have the naughty corner and if they continue to be naughtey and throw tantrums they get put there for 5 mins...so go with wats right for u....!

[MummyGoingMad]

I think from now on when she throws a tantrum or whatever I am going to put her in her room, close the door and let her cry.


I wouldnt put Charli in her room cos she'd destroy it. But when either of them has a tantrum I just say "right well ill be back when you've finished screaming" and walk off and leave them. That way they're not getting attention, are able to get out their frustration by themselves and it also keeps my sanity.