Would you be friends with someone who believes in female circumcision?

[bada]

Imagine you are friends with someone and later discover they are very much for female circumcision. They have had the procedure carried out on their daughters and believe it's a good idea for all girls to have it done. '

Would you reconsider this friendship?

[Mrs Nietzsche]

If you're trying to create a parallel with male circumcision, I don't believe it's fair. Female circumcision is about constraining female sexuailty, it is far more invasive and traumatic than male circumcision.

Neither are okay - but it is like comparing removing a fingernail for cosmetic reasons to amputating an arm.

[bada]

If you're trying to create a parallel with male circumcision, I don't believe it's fair. This one was more about ppl who say they have respect for other's choices regardless of their own beliefs.


Female circumcision is about constraining female sexuailty, it is far more invasive and traumatic than male circumcision.Neither are okay - but it is like comparing removing a fingernail for cosmetic reasons to amputating an arm.


Non-essential circumcision of non-consenting males or females (children) is genital mutilation. Some types of female circumcision are far more extreme in comparison to typical male circumcision. However, they are completely comparable because they both involve the non-essential altering of the genitals of either a male or female child.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I don't think that having your entire clitoris and labia hacked off with a sharp rock and then stitched back together leaving only a tiny hole for menstruation and urination is the same.

[bada]

I don't think that having your entire clitoris and labia hacked off with a sharp rock and then stitched back together leaving only a tiny hole for menstruation and urination is the same.

As I said,

Some types of female circumcision are far more extreme in comparison to typical male circumcision.
BUT this does not mean the two are not comparable. Both are ********, but the ppl in the pro-circ section wouldn't see it RIC that way, just as my female friend who was a victim of FGM does not see what happened to her as ******** at all.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I understand your point - I just think it's very important that the realities of female circumcision aren't lost in the debate.

I think that people will accept all sorts of things if they are culturally condoned. Breast implants for example, are also to my mind a mutilation.

I had a boyfriend who was circumcised with a shell at the age of 5 and he was fine with it.

My own husband was circumcised at around the same age and it was a terrible and traumatic experience - all the boys in his village were done once a year - apparently he was telling the man that his grandfather would come after him for doing this to him, not realising his grandfather had actually organised it. And yet he laughs about it now and wanted his own son circumcised (before he was born - once born he changed his mind thank god so there were no arguments).

I myself think that routine circumcision will become illegal very soon.

I think we are in the midst of a big shift in social attitudes on this issue.

To answer your question... if it was female circumcision of the type where they just nick the clitoral hood (which is to my mind comparable with male circumcision) and is more symbolic than anything else... I would probably still be friends with her (assuming that her beliefs were a result of her cultural background). I have a friend who circumcised her son and I am obviously still friends with her - I would find those two situations fairly parallel. I would find it horrible and unfortunate - but I guess I see it as somewhat inevitable that when you are friends with people of different cultures things crop up that you find hard to accept. I don't really understand why people would circumcise their sons... but to my mind they are the 'last of a dying breed', still holding out against hte trend. At least I hope that is the case.

[Just Add Water]

Imagine you are friends with someone and later discover they are very much for female circumcision. They have had the procedure carried out on their daughters and believe it's a good idea for all girls to have it done. Would you reconsider this friendship?

I'd like to think that I would be able to talk about it with my friend and that we would both respect each other enough for it not to get in the way. People have different beliefs, and that is what makes us all part of a blend. Just because it is something that I find upsetting does not mean that I am right and they are wrong.

I have friends who do things I strongly disagree with, but they are things that they do, not who they are.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I don't think that having your entire clitoris and labia hacked off with a sharp rock and then stitched back together leaving only a tiny hole for menstruation and urination is the same.

Actually Maire, there's three different types of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation). Type III is what you are talking about here.


Type III FGM, known as infibulation, is the most severe form in which the entire clitoris and some or all of the labia minora are excised, and incisions are made in the labia majora to create raw surfaces (Fig 4). The labial raw surfaces are stitched together to cover the urethra and vaginal introitus, leaving a small posterior opening for urinary and menstrual flow. In Type III FGM, the patient will have a firm band of tissue replacing the labia and obliteration of the urethra and vaginal openings.

Type II

Type II FGM, referred to as excision, is the removal of the entire clitoris and part or all of the labia minora (Fig 3). Crude stitches of catgut or thorns may be used to control bleeding from the clitoral artery and raw tissue surfaces, or mud poultices may be applied directly to the perineum. Patients with Type II FGM do not have the typical contour of the anterior perineal structures resulting from the absence of the labia minora and clitoris. The vaginal opening is not covered in the Type II procedure.

Type I is entirely comparable to male circumcision.

Type I FGM, often termed clitorectomy, involves excision of the skin surrounding the clitoris with or without excision of part or all of the clitoris (Fig 2). When this procedure is performed in infants and young girls, a portion of or all of the clitoris and surrounding tissues may be removed. If only the clitoral prepuce is removed, the physical manifestation of Type I FGM may be subtle, necessitating a careful examination of the clitoris and adjacent structures for recognition.

Link (http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;102/1/153)

[Roopee]

If you're trying to create a parallel with male circumcision, I don't believe it's fair. Female circumcision is about constraining female sexuailty, it is far more invasive and traumatic than male circumcision.

Neither are okay - but it is like comparing removing a fingernail for cosmetic reasons to amputating an arm.

I couldn't agree less.

Yes- I would still be friends with them- I have friends that carried our RIC on their boys and well, as much as I detest the decision and we have had many an argument/debate over it, I would much rather tolerate that side of them and ignore it and keep the friendship than lose them over it.

[Leisa21]

Depends really. I have a friend who told me to have my son circumcised. I was pregnant and had never thought of it. She gave me the clinic details and my first thought way ummm weird, I didn't think they did that anymore. After a 15 minute conversation of her saying oh but he should look like his Dad and it's cleaner I was a little disturbed. When I left I rang my husband in tears because I was afraid he'd want me to circumcise Aidan. He said over his dead body! No son of his will go through that, boy was I relieved. Then I got home and researched it and had trouble coming to terms with the choice my friend made.

I am still really good friends with her and we agree to disagree with her choice. IF someone chose to hack off their daughters sexual organs then no I wouldn't be friends with them and I'd be reporting them to the police. If they chose to remove the hood then I suppose I would have to agree to disagree like I do with my other friends who circ their boys. I don't agree with it, I wish it was illegal but as long as the law says it's ok to do then yes I will protest it, sign petitions and pray that it is made illegal but if I went around making friends based on parenting then I wouldn't have very many friends.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

Miss Andry - if you had read my posts in their entirety, you would have realised that I am fully aware of hte different types of FGM.

[halloweenmum]

Depends really. I have a friend who told me to have my son circumcised. I was pregnant and had never thought of it. She gave me the clinic details and my first thought way ummm weird, I didn't think they did that anymore. After a 15 minute conversation of her saying oh but he should look like his Dad and it's cleaner I was a little disturbed. When I left I rang my husband in tears because I was afraid he'd want me to circumcise Aidan. He said over his dead body! No son of his will go through that, boy was I relieved. Then I got home and researched it and had trouble coming to terms with the choice my friend made.

I am still really good friends with her and we agree to disagree with her choice. IF someone chose to hack off their daughters sexual organs then no I wouldn't be friends with them and I'd be reporting them to the police. If they chose to remove the hood then I suppose I would have to agree to disagree like I do with my other friends who circ their boys. I don't agree with it, I wish it was illegal but as long as the law says it's ok to do then yes I will protest it, sign petitions and pray that it is made illegal but if I went around making friends based on parenting then I wouldn't have very many friends.
:iagree: Well said.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Miss Andry - if you had read my posts in their entirety, you would have realised that I am fully aware of hte different types of FGM.

Are you referring to this thread or every post you've ever written? :confused:

ETA Oops, there we go, just found the post you must have been referring to. TLDR. :laughing:

[Pax]

I wouldnt ditch a friendship on stupidity otherwise there would be no one to be friends with.. we all have something that someone else considers to be a wrong thought/action/idea

but i think they may ditch me after I hound them on how truely wrong they are.. and report them to the police. :yes:

[Mrs Nietzsche]

To this thread.

[Cicho]

Would I... no. I would not. It is inhumane and ********.

I do not agree with male circumcision either :no:

[Benji]

I don't think I would reconsider the friendship, although it's difficult to know because I don't even think I have any friends who believe in male circumcision (although, I don't go around looking at their son's penises TBH).

I know how ingrained FGM is in some cultures, and how some mothers truly believe it is best for their daughters. I know better, but I wouldn't begrudge somebody for it, just hope that one day they see another way.

[~Candy~]

n ALL my friendships.....the circ convo has NEVER come up. It's only forums that I see ppls opinions.
If I were friends with someone...and it came up...NO, it wouldn't affect how I feel because it's NONE of my bussiness.

[Fellow Traveler]

I don't think that having your entire clitoris and labia hacked off with a sharp rock and then stitched back together leaving only a tiny hole for menstruation and urination is the same.

Maire, it isn't always perceived as you describe. Here is an article from a woman who I think is a professor at the University of Chicago and also did at least one article about it in the NYT which got a lot of flack as you can imagine.

http://www.thepatrioticvanguard.com/article.php3?id_article=3752

I am not saying it's acceptable (either male or female) I am just saying we are more likely a product of our culture than we think.