View Full Version : When & Where do kid's learn discrimination?
I've been stewing since last night.
Having dinner at the table last night, we were doing the usual chit chat about her day at childcare/kinder. My 3.5 yo DD told DH and me "I have yukky skin". :eek: Shocked at her words I asked her who said that and she said "M... and C... told me i have yukky skin." :mad:
DD has olive complexion and the 2 little girls are very fair.
I can appreciate that they can see a difference in colour in complexions, but what would make 3 yos think that anything not caucassion (sp?) is "yukky skin"???
DD doesn't go to kinder on Thursdays so tomorrow will be the first day back after this.
I intend to bring this to the staff's attention.
But I'm gob-smacked at how cruel 3 yo kids can be.
I have to assume that these kids over-hear adults else where making discriminatory or racist remarks for them to carry on like this. :mad:
that is awful!! you need to find out who the perpertrator of these nasty remarks are and have a word with them (or their parents). that is just not acceptable.
Hmmm, this is a very complex issue. Much to complex to go into any indepth discussion. This post would get rather long and boring.
Children learn about discrimination in different ways. Alot of influence comes from societal norms that aren't intentionally taught. Obviously all families have different culture/heritage/socio-economic situations, etc...and with this diversity comes different ways of understanding and interpretation of knowledge. This can manifest it's self into discrimination as children see their 'way of life' as the norm.
They don't understand the concept of diversity.
nemosmum
15-06-2006, 18:40
Ok Im going to come from an EC teahcers point of veiw and the as a mum.
Ok from a mums point of view firstly :hugs: coz that is the last thing you want your dd picking up from daycare!
My son is of biracial decent and I would hate for him to be exposed to negetive comments about other childrens skin.
Its horrible and not on:no:
Ok now from a teachers perspective,
I have worked with heaps of kids in my time,
Yes some have very neg. attitudes and I have seen some racist attitudes from kids as young as 2.5 yrs (but they dont know what they have said is wrong, so we cant really blame them iykwim)
BUT I have also encountered children who pick up on stuff that is not necessarily from parents with racist attitudes etc
I worked with one little girl who didnt want to play with dark skinned dolls and when we spoke to her mother about it she was horrified and soooo embarrassed and shocked.
We figured out that the little girl thought the baby was dirty ("someones pooed on her face" were the words she used)
The mother went out the next day and bought her a dark skinned baby bjorn lol and she ended up understanding that it wasnt dirt on the skin, just darker pigmentation etc (we explained it more simply of course) and this lead to lots of discussions, books experiences were the children in our group were given opportunities to learn about other types of skin colour.
What Im trying to say is dont jump to conclusions and think the children are coming from a racist perspective, maybe they are just confued like this little girl was etc
Speak to the teachers and tell them you a very concerned about this and want it addressed immediately by group discussions, experiences and books that open childrens ideas up and gives them appropriate information etc etc
I really hope this gets addressed as soon as possible for you and your dd and the other young children involved, goodluck
nemosmum I completely agree...
Educators need to ensure that the curriculum and classrooms are addressing student diversity in a positive light. By educating kids about other cultures, etc, they become more accepting and sensitive to those who are 'different' from them.
I'm all for inclusive classrooms!:thumbsup:
Thats horrible!!
Big :hugs: to you. Do you know their parents? If so, what are they like?
Could the kids be picking up any racism from them? Perhaps (like someone else already suggested) you could have a quiet word to them. Don't get upset or angry, stay calm and just politely tell them what they're kid said to your daughter. It has to stop now, before they get older so that they know its wrong and that colour doesnt matter! Otherwise they will keep on and on thinking that your daughter's skin colour is weird!
How awful for that to happen!
Or maybe the kids weren't trying to be hurtful and maybe it isnt the parents fault, maybe the kids just thought her skin was different to theirs and that it was yucky because it wasnt like theirs. The kids should be taught that there isn't really a normal and that people have different skin colours, eye and hair colour etc and it doesnt mean they are yucky etc.
Sorry im rambling, i know what im talking about lol.
hope the situation improves :yes:
bronny-jane
15-06-2006, 20:01
lut i'd be going nuts if it was me.
my dd's are white as but their cousin who they think is the best person in the whole world is aboriginal, so my dd's probably wont act like these kids, me and dh never comment on anyones race, so i doubt they'll pick it up..:D
Kids are 'influenced' by alot of other factors outside of the family unit. So I don't think it is fair to go pointing fingers at a childs parents. (Without having meet them). No-ones kids are 'safe' from the idea of societal norms that are imbeded in our culture. As hard as we might try, our kids are unintentionally taught these.
The best we can do is educate them to accept diversity.
I think what B-J was getting at though, is that even if parents are not teaching their children to be racist, this kind of behaviour is reflective of what the parents have also NOT taught their children... tolerance.
Does anyone else have a problem with the word "tolerance" in these situations? It makes it sound like somebody who has different colour skin, etc, is doing something bad and you should just bite your tongue and not say anything. :rolleyes:
I think I will prefer to use the words "diversity" and "culture".
Izel is never taken aback by peoples' appearance. Probably because she has always mixed with various cultural groups and she had fit in alot of travel into her short life. She went through her shock of people with darker complexion when we took her to Bangladesh. Of course there, she was considered WHITE.. and had strangers everywhere invading her personal space (as was the case with me) so i'm not sure if her reaction at the age of 15 months was to their complexion or their smothering. :rolleyes:
And I think B-J was referring to this too when she mentioned that her children are none the wiser as to the difference between their appearance and their cousin's appearance, who is obviously quite different to them.
SassyMummy
15-06-2006, 22:35
I agree with Nemosmum about the kids saying it without meaning to be racist.
Perhaps it's just a difference that they picked up on and thought it was "yucky". I imagine that most kids thrive on familiarity...so when they meet someone different, they automatically assume there is something "wrong" with them. Children also don't have a very diverse vocabulary, so using the word "yucky" might not mean it the way WE would think "yucky" means. Perhaps using "yucky" was just another way of them noting the difference. Again, your child may be labelled "yucky" because the other children are not familiar with different skin-tones.
I do think that the Centre staff should be spoken to...if nothing else, they should help to inform all of the children about diversity and how good it is that everyone is different in some way or another...but in the end, we're all the same.
This is true SassyMummy. But the strange thing is, one of these 2 girls is actually of an asian background (Chinese I believe), so if she is going to say that everyone that doesn't look like her is "yukky", then technically, she shouldn't be friends with the other little girl who was also taunting DD.
I will bring it up with the staff tomorrow. They are generally quite good when an issue is raised, so I do believe they will address this also.
It was also hard trying to explain to DD that that kind of behaviour is wrong, without making a bigger deal about what was said to her. Ultimately she knows they said yukky, but she doesn't understand why they would say that, because she really isn't that much darker than most and actually has many other children in her class that are considerably darker than her. In her eyes, she doesn't look any different to them. You have to love innocense. :kiss:
MumsieMel
16-06-2006, 07:09
I agree with nemosmum! :thumbsup:
Spot on.
diamonds22
16-06-2006, 10:22
I think what B-J was getting at though, is that even if parents are not teaching their children to be racist, this kind of behaviour is reflective of what the parents have also NOT taught their children... tolerance.
Does anyone else have a problem with the word "tolerance" in these situations? It makes it sound like somebody who has different colour skin, etc, is doing something bad and you should just bite your tongue and not say anything. :rolleyes:
I think I will prefer to use the words "diversity" and "culture".
.
This is SO true!!:thumbsup: great post!
Oh lut that is seriously awful!! Yep, I agree bring it to the staffs attention asap...I think I would be tempted to have a word to that Childs parent and ask them if they are aware of what there child is saying as well (maybe that will give the parent a kick in the butt to start teaching diversity and culture!)
Big hugs Lut and big hugs to both your beautiful children!!
Hi Lut,
Just wondering how you went talking to the staff today?? Hopefully you got a good reception from them. What action are they going to take??
I can't say I'm thrilled with how it went this morning.
Just got back.
The qualfied in the kinder room is fantastic. She is always very communicative and aware. If there is a problem, she brings it to my attention.
The assistant in that room S_ (whom I've had a problem with before- DD smelled of smoke about a month ago and when I questioned her, she mimic someone holding a cigarette and smoking. I asked her who did this and she happened to pick this particular staff member, who DOES happen to be a smoker. When I brought it up with the director who has since left; after speaking to S_ assured me it must have been from "another child's parents who ALWAYS reek of cigarettes" WT... :confused: Then she took it upon herself to punish DD for telling me, by excluding her from activities that day. I made it clear that I wasn't going to take it and that they are NEVER to discuss things that I bring to their attention with DD WITHOUT one of her parents present! )
Anyway, that was the short of the long of that story. But the qualified was on leave at that point and probably desn't even know this happened.
Anyway, i went to speak to the qualified this morning. After telling me AGAIN how well behaved DD is and how quiet she is... even went on to say that she is very bright, but socially seems to prefer to be with the quieter few kids or play on her own; she called S_ over to ask her about this "yukky skin" business.
S_ says "OH.. your daughter was being nasty to those girls and called M "Fat" or soemthing like that. I can't remember now." :mad:
I would like to think I am NOT a blind parent and I certainly make sure that DD doesn't upset other children. We just went through a phase where she told me she was playing with a little girl and a second little girl came up to play with her and she said she couldn't. I made it clear that that was NOT nice and unacceptable. She should allow anyone who wants to play with her and her friend to take part. So I don't walk around with blinkers thinking the sun shines out of her toosh... it doesn't!
So to tell me that a child who doesn't like to mix in big groups and likes to keep to herself is going and take on a group of girls (S_ said there was a group of them that DD was being "nasty to"), just doesn't quite make sense.
So ultimately she claimed they retaliated with the "yukky skin" comment. Apparently it happens in that age! :mad:
I let the smoking issue slide after saying hat I had to say, but once DH gets home, I think we will have to decide whether it is time to change CC/kinder. :banghead:
I am less than impressed.
Less the fact that if S_ witnessed my child behaving in the manner she claims, rather than brown nosing when I went to pick her up on Wed, I would expect to be told about it so I can address it with DD!
I'm frustrated and MAD!!!
Hmmm, I certainly don't want to highjack this thread and turn it into a debate about childcare. But from what you have said I gather that your not happy with the care/education they are providing.
I don't know where you live, but may I suggest looking into enrolling your dd into a C&K (creche & Kindergarten) centre?? They are government accredited and thus EVERY staff member who works there has to have a Bachelor of Education. As opposed to childcare centres where they can hire any Jo-blow of the street.
Qualified carers won't just 'look after your kids', they actually contribute to their development.
They are also trained to handle situations like this one much more effectively.
So as far as the centre is concerned that matter is closed??
Not good enough!!
Hmmm, I certainly don't want to highjack this thread and turn it into a debate about childcare. But from what you have said I gather that your not happy with the care/education they are providing.
I don't know where you live, but may I suggest looking into enrolling your dd into a C&K (creche & Kindergarten) centre?? They are government accredited and thus EVERY staff member who works there has to have a Bachelor of Education. As opposed to childcare centres where they can hire any Jo-blow of the street.
Qualified carers won't just 'look after your kids', they actually contribute to their development.
They are also trained to handle situations like this one much more effectively.
So as far as the centre is concerned that matter is closed??
Not good enough!!
AHAAAAA... didn't know such a difference existed. any ideas where I can find such a place?
I'm in the NorthWest Melbourne area.
Yes, unbelievably, as far as they are concerned, matter is closed! :mad:
Last week my CMHN suggested moving DD because after her assessment, she concluded that DD was not being stimulated enough at her curent childcare/kinder (it's an ABC childcare, so fair to say this isn't what you are suggesting) and that she needed somewhere that was exclusively kinder and challenging.
When I discussed this with the qualified sshe was saying it probably wouldn't make much difference and that DD is an "angel" (how many angels taunt other children, unprovoked or otherwise, calling them "fat or something"?? i'm getting angrier by the minute. Definitely time to move I think. )
You're right Bec, I'm not happy and becoming increasingly unhappy.
The excuse of "it's that age. It's how they learn" doesn't wash with me. they ARE learning, but they learn bad things as well as good things. It's up to adults to teach them what's right from wrong. Whether the child doing something wrong is mine or someone elses'. :thumbsdown:
p4purple
16-06-2006, 12:31
I am shocked by this thread. I never thought that I could anticipate the problems my own child could face but Lut, I am very luck that you have raised this. Not only have you pointed out the personal values that we bestow upon our children but you have raised childcare issues. Goodluck on finding a new day care.... your child should not come home feeling any less of a person for the colour of her skin or smelling like smoke for that matter! (There is a daycare across the road where I live and I have seen them puff away out the back)
I dont believe we should teach our children to tolerate others - I believe we should teach our children to accept others.
My husband was the first black child to attend his "white" school in chicago in the early 70's. He has a news paper clipping of his first day at school. He never felt different... he grew up feeling special. His father was a black freedom fighter and his mum was a white catholic missionary and they met in the 1967 chicago race riots....my husband has stated that he has felt more discriminated by his own white grandparents than he has in the American school system.
We are 12 weeks pregnant. I am a blondey and come from convict stock. Who knows what shade of white, beige or black our child will come out. I felt my baby discriminated against when I told my cousin of our news....she kept saying...."you are having a chico baby and a golly wog is going to come out" I was disgusted by her insensitive taunting but I have come to understand and accept that she has had a sheltered up bringing. I can't believe that in Australia, in this day and age that people could be so ignorant.
Lut I would be interested to hear of how you have explained to your daughter that she is unique and beautiful and that her skin is not yuky. Kids pick on other kids for all sorts of things.....clothes, hair, lunch but skin at the age of 3 is hard to understand. I can only hope that my child will not come home from day care in a similar situation but through you I am learning to be prepared.
p4purple
16-06-2006, 12:41
ABC = Profits. They are a business all about the bottom line. A franchise like the McDonalds of childcare. Pay for cheap staff - get cheap labour. Go to a community day care Lut. How dare they punish her by excluding her from the activities. I saw an interesting program on Insight about how the childcare industry needs a watch dog and it needs to be regulated.
Hi P4purple.
Well, after the initial shock of what she said (and trying to absorb that 3 yos were responsible for these words) DH and I explained to her that she has beautiful skin and that she is very lucky.
She has the perfect skin for her that protects her from the sun. I told her perhaps the other children were jealous because people who have lighter skin have to be more careful of the sun and can't go to the beach and enjoy it like she can.
She said "you have whiter skin than me"- I said "yes, i have little bit lighter colour skin than you and I have to be more careful than you. And your brother is even lighter than me, so we will have to protect him from the sun even more! But daddy is luckiest because his skin is even darker than yours, and the sun doesn't hurt him as much as you and me."
DH told her to ignore people when they say things that are not nice. He explained that some people can be silly and say things and sometimes they don't even mean it. He said "next time somebody tells you you have "yukky skin" or you have yukky hair or whatever, you tell them my Mum and Dad and my brother love me. I don't care what you think."
She said "yeah.. YOU love me, dont you?!?" :kiss:
She seemed happy enough.
She said "I think Dad's handsome" which lightened the moment. (I have to agree.. he isn't half bad! ;) )
It's such a delicate subject really. You need to address it, but you have to be so careful not to make a huge deal out of it for her, otherwise she will start to think there IS something wrong with her. Double edged sword really.
She actually has a little African American decent girl in her class, that she has played with since orientation last year. I asked her "What do you think of P*?" She said "P* is my friend." I said "do you think she is pretty?" and she replied in all her innocence "yeeeeahhhh. She has nice hair."
I'm not sure how affected she was, because DD always gets pulled over by strangers while we are shopping to be complemented on her looks, her skin colour, her eyelashes or her hair (if i had a $ for everytime someone asked if the curls are natural! :) ) So i think her self-esteem is actually quite high to begin with, that she probably wasn't really taking what these girls said on board. But that doesn't make it right. And you know the saying "if you hear something enough, you'll start to believe it!"
Good luck with your little one P4purple. I have to say, DH is not particularly dark skinned, though he is darker than the average. I had lots of the comments you were talking about when I got married. Once DD was born, people rushed to see what colour she was. :rolleyes:
Now with DS we keep getting comments like "WOW.. he is sooo fair. Will he get darker?" How on earth do I know? And do i care? He is a beautiful healthy little boy.. so long as he isn't turning blue, i'm happy! sheesh!
DH generally gets irritated and replies with "I hope so!" LOL
ABC = Profits. They are a business all about the bottom line. A franchise like the McDonalds of childcare. Pay for cheap staff - get cheap labour. Go to a community day care Lut. How dare they punish her by excluding her from the activities. I saw an interesting program on Insight about how the childcare industry needs a watch dog and it needs to be regulated.
Yes, well i didn't expect them to say "yes, actually we smoke around the children", but the excuses were lame. I just wanted them to know I knew and therefore STOP IT!
Instead they put forward all sorts of silly "possible" explanations and then punished DD. For the first time DD came home very silent and distraught. She was very emotional. I always get her to chat about kinder and what she did that day. If i can't be there, i know how to subtly sus the goings on there from my DD.
When she said she was excluded from activities and made to sit on the couch on her own, i was ropable. It was 5 mins before closing time and i rang them. The director made a mistake by answering that call.
I went off at her. I said "i told you that the issue was to be treated in the strictest confidence. How dare anybody exclude her for answering my questions?" she denied even telling that teacher about it (which i saw her run and do as soon as i got in the car that morning anyway.)
Then I said to her "I spoke to you when DD wasn't around. If she wasn't approached about this, how would she know i talk to you about it."
When I asked her why she was excluded that day, DD said "Because you told them I told you about the smoking." :rolleyes:
She is a smart little girl, yes... but a psychic.. NO!
I agree Mrs Casper.
Ironically when i went to pick DD up this evening, I found a survey in my pigeonhole.
It was from National Childcare Accreditation Council (NCAC). The centre is apparently being audited! :yelclap:
They want me to give my honest opinion of the centre.
WOW... how is THAT for timing??? :thumbsup:
Lut, here is a link to the c&k website...http://www.candk.asn.au/
Hope this helps...I'm not sure that they have any centres down your way? Maybe you could contact your state govt and ask if they fund a similar program?
nemosmum
17-06-2006, 06:26
Yes I agree they have not handled themselves or the situation with any kind of professionalism thats for sure!
I hope you find a great centre for your dd really soon:fingerscrossed:
Thanks nemosmum.
It will be my mission from next Tuesday morning onwards.
Not really sure where to begin though.
Has anybody else found that they were actually given very little (in our case, zero) information about preschools and enrolments to them??:confused:
pestiferous
17-06-2006, 14:24
How do children learn discrimination?
By watching parents and care givers differentiate skin tones. One does not have to be as obvious as light skin is better than dark OR dark skin is better than light when planting the seeds of racism, discrimination or future superiority complex.
It can come from something as seemingly harmless as
I explained to her that she has beautiful skin and that she is very lucky. She has the perfect skin for her that protects her from the sun. I told her perhaps the other children were jealous because people who have lighter skin have to be more careful of the sun and can't go to the beach and enjoy it like she can.
She said "you have whiter skin than me"- I said "yes, i have little bit lighter colour skin than you and I have to be more careful than you. And your brother is even lighter than me, so we will have to protect him from the sun even more! But daddy is luckiest because his skin is even darker than yours, and the sun doesn't hurt him as much as you and me."
Pestiferous has made a very vaild point...like I have already said such things as descrimination are often unintentionally taught. Carers may have the best intentions at heart, but unknowingly 'plant the seed' for values that are so imbedded in society that they (as adults) don't even realise they are doing it. If that makes sense??
The whole situation with your daycare sounds very off - They are way out of line on so many issues - poor bullying procedures, smoking around children, punishing your child, repetiting confidential conversations etc etc. I'm not sure if you can but I'd pull her out now before finding another place (if you don't work or have a grandparent who can step in for a week or two).
On the subject of children learning racisim -sometimes it's not the parents where the attitudes are learnt. My eldest child at the ripe old age of 4 learnt some very negative attitudes from being bullied at Daycare. As much as we could figure out There was an older child of 5 who was very aggressive and my son was tormented by him on a regular basis (toys taken off him, called names, pushed, his hat thrown over the fence, hit, and bitten). Day care staff frequently told us that they were working on his behaviour and that the boy was being refferred for extra help. Anyway, It escallated to the final straw of my son refusing to get on the daycare bus from kindergarten pick up because the boy hurt him every time they were on the bus together (different schools same daycare & bus).
Up until the last straw we had no idea which boy the bully was as our son refused to point him out and the daycare staff were dealing with it and of course they aren't allowed to point out a particular child. After we pulled our son out we noticed fear and a refusal to go near people with a dark skin tone. We asked him about it and it came to light that the bully from daycare had had very dark skin. Unfortunately my son associated this child's skin tone with his behavour and developed his own negative feelings.
My child is now 8 and his fear & negative attitudes have taken alot to overcome. He is now fine once he knows the person (our school is very diverse which has been fantastic for him) but he is still very wary of a new person of similar colouring to the bully.
We often have talks about everyone being different and special and that how you look on the outside doesn't show how nice a person is on the inside. This year he has a friend of similar appearence to the original bully so I'm hoping that his attitudes are slowly being changed and replaced with good ones :D
How do children learn discrimination?
By watching parents and care givers differentiate skin tones. One does not have to be as obvious as light skin is better than dark OR dark skin is better than light when planting the seeds of racism, discrimination or future superiority complex.
It can come from something as seemingly harmless as
HANG ON.... i notice that you failed to highlight the part of the sentence that says "perfect skin FOR HER!!!!!"
I also pointed out that there are 4 different skin types in our very OWN family unit and did not discriminate between us.
I ask anyone who wants to scientfically dispute that the sun does not have different effects on various skin to come explain how I am giving her wrong information. Obviously different skin tones have now been brought to her attention, it is MY job to explain the difference to her now.
Shall I have her think that different skin tone means "the lighter the better" as it was portrayed to her.
Are you disputing that lighter tone skin do NOT have to be more careful under the sun? Cos as someone who has a very fair grandmother who has continously had to have sus moles removed from her face, despite not spending extended times under the sun, I beg to differ!
And if I don't protect my children from everything and everyone, then no one else will.
The whole situation with your daycare sounds very off - They are way out of line on so many issues - poor bullying procedures, smoking around children, punishing your child, repetiting confidential conversations etc etc. I'm not sure if you can but I'd pull her out now before finding another place (if you don't work or have a grandparent who can step in for a week or two).
Rhoxie, I have had to let her return for Monday at the very least, because I have my last uni exam on Monday afternoon and nobody to look after her. :thumbsdown:
And you are right, there are definitely issues there that need to be addressed at her daycare. Shame, because she always enjoyed going and there are some great staff members there. Just that the main one that she has overseeing her group is not one of them! :no:
You have obviously done a great job with your DS that despite his bad experience, you have managed to bring him to a point where he realises it is not a person's skin colour that determines their personality or behaviour! :thumbsup:
Just a reminder to keep it polite and share opinions with out attacking others, it would be sad to see this thread closed.
Cheers
who do we learn discrimination from? well in my case my aunty. she told me people with dark skin were called a name i wont repeat.it got to the stage where if i saw a coloured person in the streets id call them by this name and when given a golly wog doll off santa i gave it straight to the dog. it did nothing to make me think of coloured people any different when i grew up however. im very accepting of everyone in fact my partner is islander. kids can be cruel and be mean sometimes not understanding why and what they are saying.
HANG ON.... i notice that you failed to highlight the part of the sentence that says "perfect skin FOR HER!!!!!"
I also pointed out that there are 4 different skin types in our very OWN family unit and did not discriminate between us.
To my mind, the only point that bothered me in what you told your daughter would have had complete innocence behind it: That fair people can't go to the beach and enjoy it like she can
There is a lot of negative attitude in schools, society and the media about fair skinned kids, especially red-heads. I know that I was ashamed to put on sunscreen in front of people as a child, as they always made me feel like a freak.
There are some features which adults may see as advantages in life, like height, fair skin but it is the poor little kids with these features who get the reverse discrimination (reverse to what we expect, where short and dark kids are teased like on TV) and it makes them feel horrid.
I guess the intended point is that all parents need to find that magic phrase that explains to kids why there is nothing wrong with their skin/hair/voice/size without accidentally rating it as higher than anyone elses. I say "magic" because there is no one easy answer, and I have no idea what I would say.
Children also don't have a very diverse vocabulary, so using the word "yucky" might not mean it the way WE would think "yucky" means.
On my birthday my partner told our 2½ year old that I was OLD, and she looked puzzled and said "Is he yucky?" I worked out that I'd been telling her that food that had been sitting on the table for too long was old and yucky. :rolleyes:
To my mind, the only point that bothered me in what you told your daughter would have had complete innocence behind it: That fair people can't go to the beach and enjoy it like she can
There is a lot of negative attitude in schools, society and the media about fair skinned kids, especially red-heads. I know that I was ashamed to put on sunscreen in front of people as a child, as they always made me feel like a freak.
There are some features which adults may see as advantages in life, like height, fair skin but it is the poor little kids with these features who get the reverse discrimination (reverse to what we expect, where short and dark kids are teased like on TV) and it makes them feel horrid.
I guess the intended point is that all parents need to find that magic phrase that explains to kids why there is nothing wrong with their skin/hair/voice/size without accidentally rating it as higher than anyone elses. I say "magic" because there is no one easy answer, and I have no idea what I would say.
I see your point, but you have to realise that I was caught totally off guard. When a group of little girls go up and tell your child she has yukky skin, you go into overdrive to ensure she doesn't think that what she has is a bad thing.
I was trying to show her the advantages of her skin (She isn't particularly dark, so I never expected that I would have to face this issue with my children.:( Well, i don't think that in this day and age, anyone with any skin colour at ANY age should be exposed to this. But I think we can say the perfect world doesn't exist! :rolleyes: )
To my mind, I wasn't telling her that fair skin was BAD, i was telling her that she should feel lucky because there are advantages to her skin colour.
Like I said, please bare in mind I had no time to prepare for this talk. All I saw was my child (a 3 yo) being picked on and the way it came out of her in the middle of dinner, firstly stunned me and then my maternal instincts came in. I guess what i was subconsciously doing was arming her with information to answer back, should this ever come up again. (which I hope it won't because it has over the last few days seemed to come to surface more and more for her. Yesterday as I was showering her, she asked me if it was ok to go to a different school. Her words were "i think I need to go to a different school now. can i go to another school please?"
I asked her why. She said she was sad because S* (the staff member who was present when this happened.. who we had the smoking issue with previously) told me she called the girls fat and she says she didn't.
This from a child who did hurt her friend last week at kinder (her teacher was even shocked and they were convinced she must have been provoked to do what she did. Her teacher told me about it, which I was greatful about.. because I would like to make sure that DH and I address all negative behaviour so it is not repeated.) But when we got home and I asked her if she hurt her friend, she admitted to it. I asked her why and she said she was playing and she didn't think it would hurt. I asked if her friend had said anything bad or done anything bad to her before she hurt her, and she said "no. I was just playing. I didn't know it hurt."
My point being, she doesn't lie (well not yet anyway). So it bothered her to hear S* excusing the "b*tching" as she ever so professionally put it.. IN FRONT of my DD, and accusing her of provoking and taunting.. which would apparently make the comment acceptable. "because they do that at this age. They are just learning!"
Well, thank you very much.. but whatever they are learning here, I think i'll give it a miss.
Tomorrow when i go to pick her up after my final exam, i will give them notice and remove her. It's a shame I don't have anyone who can look after her tomorrow... but she said she would go back and say bye to her favourite teachers and her few close (quieter) friends.
jessgray
19-06-2006, 10:22
i would speak to the staff to see what they can do. apart from that i am not much help.
when i was 6 my mum picked me up from my first day of grade 1. i told her all the way home about my new friend tippavanh who everyone called tippy. and mum said how tippy's name was unusual. and i told her how tippy had long pretty hair and how i wanted hair just like tippy's. so mum said i should intorduce tippy to her the next day.
mum had a giggle the next day when she told me why i couldnt have hair like tippy lol coz tippy and her family were from thailand.
anyway my point of telling tht story is to show how innocent some children are when it comes to noticing differences in others. i didnt notice tippy was of asian decent i just noticed her pretty hair :)
pestiferous
19-06-2006, 12:09
HANG ON.... i notice that you failed to highlight the part of the sentence that says "perfect skin FOR HER!!!!!"
I also pointed out that there are 4 different skin types in our very OWN family unit and did not discriminate between us.
Actually, I did not 'fail' to highlight, i chose not to highlight.
Why, because children do not always hear every word we say. They take bits and peices of every statement and toss together the bits they like the most (kinda like this place does ;) lol )
The highlighted area's are what i think most children would focus on and what most would remember.
I was trying to point out that within the most harmless or well meaning statements we can unintentionally plant ideas that we do not ourselves even agree with and that discrimination is not always deliberately taught.
I was not criticizing your way of dealing with the situation, merely answering your original question. I used your own words because (as you have shown by your response) it seemed to be the best example to show how easily we can fuel discrimination without even realising it.
You did not come straight out and say 'you are better than the white kid because' but the inclusion of comments like shes jealous, or daddy has the best skin because. CAN and do insinuate that dark skin is better than light.
The fact that white skin is more prone to sun damage is of no consequence, it is the underlaying idea that white skin is somehow inferior to dark skin that plants the 'seed' i mentioned.
No i can not 'scientifically prove' theres no difference between sun damage in light or dark skin, nor can you prove there is less chance of hep or alchoholism in aboriginals and TSI's.
Now, If i had told my child she is very lucky to be considered 'white' (a surprise considering her fathers heritage) because she is less likely to become an alchoholic. Or arent you lucky you have less chance of catching Hep C!
There would be no question, i would be planting discriminatory ideas in my child mind! There is no difference between this and subliminally teaching that dark skin is better than white, they both differentiate skin tones, they both teach that one is somehow better than the other and while ever we teach that there IS a difference, racism will be rife.
p4purple
19-06-2006, 12:29
I guess the intended point is that all parents need to find that magic phrase that explains to kids why there is nothing wrong with their skin/hair/voice/size without accidentally rating it as higher than anyone elses. I say "magic" because there is no one easy answer, and I have no idea what I would say.
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It comes back to acceptance rather than tolerance.....Deeds not words.
Tolerance is still separation and acceptance is becoming a part of. When my neice and nephew first met my DH at ages 3 and 4 they were amazed at the colour of his skin and like little kids do, asked him "Why is your skin brown?" and it occured to me that in the part of Sydney where they live, there is a majority of white people....knowing him and having my DH as their Uncle has taught them more about acceptance than any words ever could.
My friends little girl has a pile of dolls and teddys in a basket, like any little girl. It is good to see that she has two black dolls and an asian doll along with all the cupie faced blonde dolls.
This thread has made me realise that with my children, I will always focus on the uniqueness of people rather than the differences between people and that actions speak louder than words and opening up a childs eyes to the diversity of the human race can help them to grow as people.
p4purple- If this thread has helped at least one other parent to prepare themselves and their child/ren for facing something like this, then it has made my effort to post all the more worth it. :thumbsup:
(although I DO hope you don't have to face it.)
I have come to the conclusion that the DD's "antisocial" behaviour at kinder (which was surprising to DH and myself to hear, as she is known to be exceptionally socially with children she does and doesn't know else where.) must be because while I've been quizzing her on how she is treated by staff, I never sussed out that she was being bullied by some children at kinder. (also explains why she always prefers to play with boys at kinder... DH has been ageing like you wouldn't believe! :devil6: LOL)
I suppose these goins on at kinder also explains why she regressed in her toilet training and became so defiant- almost possessed like. People were putting it down to DS's arrival, but we prepped her for that and she has NEVER shown anything but love and protective tendancy towards him. He is nearly 7 months and her behaviour has done a 180 degree turn in the last 6 weeks or so.
Oh well.. down to work as of tomorrow to find her an alternative kinder. :rolleyes:
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