Makes Me So Angry

[LuvMy4Babes]

I will start with the disclaimer I am very against elective c-sections for no medical reason. Just my opinion.

With that out the way, here is what makes me so angry. A friend of mine had her 1st baby at 20 years old, granted it was a long and hard labour, but she birthed a baby over 9lbs naturally with no horrible after-effects. This was in a public hospital.

Fast forward 6 years later she is pregnant with her 2nd baby and is now going private. Her very first OB visit, the OB says to her "Oh you know we can book you in for a c-section if you want" WHAT??????? This woman birthed a baby naturally and he is asking to book her in for a c-section???? UGH UGH UGH.

So the seed is planted. Every 2nd visit thereafter the c-section is brought up again by the OB. By the time my friend is around 30 weeks, the reality that she has to get this baby out becomes scary (of course) so she books in the c-section. I am angry at OB's who push it on women when our bodies are obviously designed to push our babies out into the world :banghead:

Last year she had her 3rd baby, same OB, another elective c-section.

I'm so sick of OB's who book them in, because it suits their schedule, it's less of a liability risk for them and their sleep won't get interrupted in the middle of the night. Shame on them.

[Chunkydunks]

I think an OB should never even suggest a CS unless the woman brings it up or if there is some medical reason.

[CrankyAndTired]

I should start with a disclaimer that I have no intention of EVER birthing "naturally" and have big problems with people who judge my choice to birth through a non-medically necessary elective c-section...;)

We live in a country where if you go through the private medical system, you have a choice to elect to have a caesarean. (Personally I believe you should be able to elect for a c-section regardless of whether you are public or brivate, but thats another story...)

The OB wasn't "pushing" anything by the sounds of things, she was informing the woman of HER rights and choices. Just as YOU have choices in how you choose to give birth..

[Sheer Bliss]

I read your opening sentance and though.....oh, no....here we go again.

But I have to admit, I totally agree with you!! Why on earth, when she has already had a natural birth would the OB be bringing up c-section at the FIRST appt?? :hair: Maybe later on when discussing birth options, it could be mentioned that c-sections are a birth choice, but if he was keen to make her aware of her birth choices, he should have also mentioned homebirth and birthing centres.

[LuvMy4Babes]

Livly, I don't want to get into a heated argument or anything, but please help me to understand why you would not want to do what your body is designed to do, what women have been doing for centuries?

Why would you choose to have what is classed as "major surgery" when it's so unnecessary?

[elwoodgal]

I had a C/S but not by choice. :no:
I was upfront with my O/B & told her I wanted to have a V/B. This is what I expected to have. I didn't do any reading on C/S's b/c it wasn't going to happen. When it got to weekly visits my O/B's only comment was 'big baby'.
I tried to do it 'au natural' but no luck. Four days later I just wanted her out. I wish my O/B had talked to me about the possibility of a C/S b/c in the end it all happened so quickly & I felt the choice was taken away from me.
It was the best thing for my DD in the end but I did feel I wasn't fully informed on what may occur.

I don't think O/B's should push women to have C/S's. I think O/B's should let women know what the options are b/c sometimes there is no choice.

[RoarsomeMum]

MY OB pushed for C'sect at each appointment too, and I firmly said NO at each appointment. It's his RIGHT to ask if I want one and My right to say No. (or YES if I had wanted to) If we have not learnt to do that by the time we are about to become mothers, then I really pity the next generation.

And I am Not judging the choices, I frankly don't CARE how your baby is born. ( I do care about the birth Trauma stories where choice simply IS ripped away.. that makes me angry..) but an OB suggestign C section (for NO REASON as in OP) and a woman deciding to go with it is her choice.

[Sheer Bliss]

Bringing them up as an option is OK, BUT in the first appt AND every second one since - THAT is pushing it! It's not making her aware of her options, it's being pushy, or suggestive if you want to be polite.

[HugsBunny]

It doesn't make me angry at all. I think everyone has the right to choose how they birth, but the fact of the matter is that the thought of having a CS scares the absolute :eek: out of me!!

DS was 8 pound 7, born naturally, after an active labour of around 5hours or so (I take that from when the contractions were 2 mins apart, starting to get unbearable and we went to the hospital), I had a 2nd degree tear and the midwives were horrible but no way would I choose an elective CS this time around :no:

Just the epidural is enough to put me off :laughing: Give me pain anyday over a hollow needle left in my spine *shudders*

[Beeza8906]

i think that everyone is entitled to their own decissions and its not really anyone else's business wether they want to have a v/b or a c/s, who are we to judge? its a personal choice , Why try to force your oppinions and preferences onto other people?

[LuvMy4Babes]

i think that everyone is entitled to their own decissions and its not really anyone else's business wether they want to have a v/b or a c/s, who are we to judge? its a personal choice , Why try to force your oppinions and preferences onto other people?

I'm not forcing my opinions onto anyone actually. I simply put it out there for discussion. I did not push my preferences for VB onto my friend either, when she chose to have 2 c-sections :)

[Amara]

It's interesting how it works in the private system compared to the public system.

I gave birth for the first time at the age of 42 through the public system yet it was never suggested that I have a C section - not once -even though it is apparently quite common for women over 35 have them because we are considered a higher risk - usually in private hospitals.

I know someone who was in her early 20's and the OB suggested she have a c section cos bubs had been giving her back pain & apparently that meant the labour would be very painful for her & she just went along with it. Of course it was going to be painful - labour is painful. I would've thought pain medication or epidural would've been suggested first, but no it was straight to have a c section.

I am not anti c section, in fact after a long and painful labour which involved shoulder dystocia if I got pregnant again I'd probably think about it myself, but I think way too many private OB's suggest it so it fits in with their schedules.

[MamaKoala]

I think the fact that she had already birthed naturally gave her enough experience to be able to choose what she wanted to do. If she's doing it a second time then she obviously didn't feel forced by her OB to have a c/s the first time.
From the limited information you've shared about your friend it sounds like she understands both c/s and v/b so if she chose to have a c/s then it is entirely her choice.
If you were being pushed by your OB and felt that your choices were limited because of it, then that is another story but it's her body and her choice and I don't see a problem with that.

[TripleTime]

I should start with a disclaimer that I have no intention of EVER birthing "naturally" and have big problems with people who judge my choice to birth through a non-medically necessary elective c-section...;)

Im with you, i have never had the intention of having a 'natural' birth nor will i ever.



Just the epidural is enough to put me off :laughing: Give me pain anyday over a hollow needle left in my spine *shudders*

There is other ways of having a C/S. Im not a fan of neddle at all hence why in big black text in my file it says 'Needle Phobic' & i am either having a GA or Spinal Block. Depending on how quick we need to do things.

Another thing - What about the mass amount of peple that have been trying & are still trying to push me into having a natural birth.

I agree with OP that maybe the OB was a little pushing & could have used a better tack but in at the end of the day she is the one that chose to have the C/S & signed the papers.

[Sheer Bliss]

i think that everyone is entitled to their own decissions and its not really anyone else's business wether they want to have a v/b or a c/s, who are we to judge? its a personal choice , Why try to force your oppinions and preferences onto other people?

I think that is the problem (or from what I read). The OB was the one who said at every second appointment that 'oh, by the way, dont' forget a c-section is possible.....' IMO that was forcing his preferences onto her. Yes, it was still her choice in the end....but if over a series of months you went to a cafe and were offered a piece of chocolate cake, you might be inclined to eventually accept, wondering why would it keep on being offerend??

[LuvMy4Babes]

Im with you, i have never had the intention of having a 'natural' birth nor will i ever.

Another thing - What about the mass amount of peple that have been trying & are still trying to push me into having a natural birth.


Ok I can answer that one. I had VB with all 4 of my babies. One of my biggest birthing fears was what if for some reason I needed a CS.

I guess I find the whole process of labouring, contractions, pushing the baby out to be the complete birth process. Yes it's painful, but what an amazing journey. It's hard for me to imagine simply laying on the table and then someone handing me my baby. I don't mean for that to sound horrible, but that is honestly and seriously how I feel. I would feel totally ripped off to have my baby that way.

So for that reason, I feel the need to encourage people to birth vaginally. For them to have the same awesome and amazing experiences that I did.

[LuvMy4Babes]

I think that is the problem (or from what I read). The OB was the one who said at every second appointment that 'oh, by the way, dont' forget a c-section is possible.....' IMO that was forcing his preferences onto her. Yes, it was still her choice in the end....but if over a series of months you went to a cafe and were offered a piece of chocolate cake, you might be inclined to eventually accept, wondering why would it keep on being offerend??

THANKYOU! Finally someone who "gets it" that was exactly my point :D

[hunnybunny]

Just felt like I should mention that not all OB's in the private system are like that either. I am having twins and was worried that I would be pushed into a birth I wasnt happy with, but my OB has been brilliant, he has been guided by what I want and has kept me informed of all the choices I have.

[TripleTime]

Ok I can answer that one. I had VB with all 4 of my babies. One of my biggest birthing fears was what if for some reason I needed a CS.

I guess I find the whole process of labouring, contractions, pushing the baby out to be the complete birth process. Yes it's painful, but what an amazing journey. It's hard for me to imagine simply laying on the table and then someone handing me my baby. I don't mean for that to sound horrible, but that is honestly and seriously how I feel. I would feel totally ripped off to have my baby that way.

So for that reason, I feel the need to encourage people to birth vaginally. For them to have the same awesome and amazing experiences that I did.

Im not saying there is anything wrong with a VB, its just not my cup of tea.

For me there is the option of having a VB but my OB has said he can not safely monitor the 4 of us.

[Chunkydunks]

he sounds fantastic hunnybunny!! And you're dead right. Not all OBs push their opinions on to the woman.

[LuvMy4Babes]

Im not saying there is anything wrong with a VB, its just not my cup of tea.

For me there is the option of having a VB but my OB has said he can not safely monitor the 4 of us.

I can understand that and if I were having triplets, I would probably be faced with the same decision.

But you said you didn't ever want to give birth naturally and I'm just curious to understand why it's not your cup of tea.

[Chunkydunks]

Im not saying there is anything wrong with a VB, its just not my cup of tea.

For me there is the option of having a VB but my OB has said he can not safely monitor the 4 of us.

you mean they still leave it open for a VB with triplets?? I thought that would be a definite case of CS. Shows how much I know:laughing:.

I can completely understand why some women would opt for a CS straight up. its their choice and I'm all for choice. My statement still stands though that an OB should not continue to bring it up if the mother has said no previously unless there are complications and it looks like it may need to happen.

I had an emergency CS but I was somewhat prepared for what would happen because we discussed both birthing method in the ante-natal classes. Next time I'm pushing for a VB because I still cry every time I see a birth where the mum gets to greet the bub straight away. It is something I can't seem to get past.

[Sheer Bliss]

Just felt like I should mention that not all OB's in the private system are like that either. I am having twins and was worried that I would be pushed into a birth I wasnt happy with, but my OB has been brilliant, he has been guided by what I want and has kept me informed of all the choices I have.

:iagree: ditto to all of the above! My OB knows from my previous births that a c-section is a last option for me, so hasn't mentioned it, despite twins!

[HugsBunny]

There is other ways of having a C/S. Im not a fan of neddle at all hence why in big black text in my file it says 'Needle Phobic' & i am either having a GA or Spinal Block. Depending on how quick we need to do things.

But with a GA, I wouldn't see the baby as soon as it's born and doesn't a spinal block involve a needle too?

Needles themselves don't bother me, but needles in my back do :o

[TripleTime]

I can understand that and if I were having triplets, I would probably be faced with the same decision.

But you said you didn't ever want to give birth naturally and I'm just curious to understand why it's not your cup of tea.

I dont know exactly why, i just cant see it. Same as i cant bring myself to breastfeed.
I do however know that the thought of a VB scares me to know end.


you mean they still leave it open for a VB with triplets?? I thought that would be a definite case of CS. Shows how much I know:laughing:.

Yep :yes:
Extreamly risky thought & there is one OB here that came to see me on friday & said 'They might just all line up & come out'
My butt they will, i have 2 footling breechs in there. No thanks little buddy.

[TripleTime]

But with a GA, I wouldn't see the baby as soon as it's born and doesn't a spinal block involve a needle too?

Needles themselves don't bother me, but needles in my back do :o

Yes a spinal is still a neddle in your back but its alot smaller & no tube is left behind.

[HugsBunny]

Yes a spinal is still a neddle in your back but its alot smaller & no tube is left behind.

That's what makes me shudder :laughing:

[TripleTime]

That's what makes me shudder :laughing:

Understand compleatly, im not a 100% sold on the idea but i dont have an nother option.

[CrankyAndTired]

Livly, I don't want to get into a heated argument or anything, but please help me to understand why you would not want to do what your body is designed to do, what women have been doing for centuries?

Why would you choose to have what is classed as "major surgery" when it's so unnecessary?

Hi LuvMy4Babes..

Don't worry, no heated arguements here just a difference in opinion. :)

I've never really understood the whole "its natural" arguement for vaginal birthing.. so many women (and babies) have died during natural vaginal childbirth.. To me its like argueing against penicillin, i.e. people have been handling infections for years without antibiotics, why use unnecessary foreign substances now?

I like antibiotics, and i love c-sections. There are known risks with c-sections, but for me, the benefits of the c-section and the risks of a vaginal birth outweighed.

Knowing I was having the birth I wanted (c-section) was a comforting knowledge for me during my pregnancy.. I liked having Rome's birth "booked in", it helps me prepare psychologically. I liked knowing there was no risk of my vagina being ripped or cut - I like my vagina quite a bit, and much preferred a cut in my belly (which is actually lower than my bikini line..)

I dont have any fears of surgery, needles or drugs so a c-section was a no brainer for me. I just wish everyone had the choice to choose a c-section, like I did, if thats what they want...

Hope that helps you understand my perspective a little better :flowerz:

[misskittyfantastico]

That sort of pushy OB behaviour makes me grumble (oh, orright - rant). My OB tried to get me to have an epidural FOUR times within a five hour period! It was written in my birthplan, I'd told him and the midwives, but he still pushed his opinion upon me in quite a relentless fashion. If we have a third, I aint going back to him!

[84zsazsa]

I guess I find the whole process of labouring, contractions, pushing the baby out to be the complete birth process. Yes it's painful, but what an amazing journey. It's hard for me to imagine simply laying on the table and then someone handing me my baby. I don't mean for that to sound horrible, but that is honestly and seriously how I feel. I would feel totally ripped off to have my baby that way.

See these are words I have heard over and over again & quite frankly they need to be said with care as they are hurtful....as one could take it as you saying that a C/sec is not going through 'the birth process' or an amazing journey :(. I had a C/sec...yes not by choice & I did labour for 16hrs before hand but even if I didnt...believe me when I say it is a birth process and amazing!! They still pushed my bubba back & forth (simulating the birth carnal) so he knew to breathe, he still came out head first & took a breath, I still heard his little cry & saw his gooey face & pain be it contractions or needles in your back...rolling to move & wash after a C/sec...lifting & feeding your baby...They are BOTH pain endured (one which I will say lasts wks longer then labour) for that wee life & deserves credit no matter what!!!! It is still the greatest achievement in my life and yes as you said I just laid on my back & out he came...:eek:

Before I had a C/sec I had all kinds of opinions about Vag birth (wanted one like crazy!!) & 'people not wanting to push'....once I gave birth the way I said I never would I ate all my words about it being an easier option & less of an experiance.

My opinion on the question....

The OB should not be pushing on the first appointment like that but we as women should be able to say NO also. Change OB's...get another opinion & if you dont & take the C/sec...oh well...its your choice & not the end of the world!!

Danni

[munchie]

The midwifes that looked after me refused any drugs that i requested! No pushy midwifes looked after me.. Guess they are 1 in a million

[Ffrenchknickers]

I totally get you OP :yes: Makes me cross too...:(

[MooMum]

I've never really understood the whole "its natural" arguement for vaginal birthing.. so many women (and babies) have died during natural vaginal childbirth.. To me its like argueing against penicillin, i.e. people have been handling infections for years without antibiotics, why use unnecessary foreign substances now?



You know penicillin is derived from a natural substance right? Not foreign at all! Sorry.

I am for whatever a WOMAN wants, not what is pushed on her. I had a v/b and yes TRIPLETIME it scared me to death to do it too, but so does a c/s. I also have a fear of needles in my spine after a failed epidural and now a condition in this pg that means I have to have regular lumbar punctures, it is HORRENDOUS but I have no choice. Theres also the fact that a v/b does not mean you are up and at 'em straight away, I couldn't sit properly for 6 weeks.

Each birth and each woman's experience is going to be different, I'm expecting a completely different birth with this pg. But it should be OUR choice, options are a must, but what we do with them after that is not to be judged nor should we be pushed.

Good luck Tripletime, I hope you and all the other women here currently expecting get the births they want:thumbsup:

[Crazydaze]

To be honest I have to wonder if the OB did actually mention it in the 1st appointment. It is quite possible that your friend actually wasnt happy with the natural birth and long labour with her decent sized 1st baby? MANY women feel they've had a bad birth experience or even birth trauma and never speak about it. Is it possible she brought it up and asked if he would do one? I know I asked my OB at the very first appointment after the trauma of my 1st's birth. By saying that the OB mentioned it, kinda takes the questioning away from her if people have a problem with elective csections. They can get angry with the OB rather than your friend feeling like the world is against her. The fact she told you and that she said he mentioned it at every second appointment, sounds more to me like she was constantly checking with the OB that it could still be done. The same way Id be paranoid and asking all the time to make sure I was going to get the CS that I wanted.

Just a thought ???? Im not saying that you are lying at all, or that its not what your friend told you. But what goes on in a Dr's office and what gets told to family and friends is not always the same thing.

[Josh]

I am actually having the opposite, my doctor wants me to have a vbac,( he is a very pro vaginal doc), but I would prefer a caesar which would be elective, but usually I hear of stories where women are pressured into having a caesar, usually by private ob's, I think a public hospital is the go if you want a natural.:yes:

[KatiesMum]

I've never really understood the whole "its natural" arguement for vaginal birthing.. so many women (and babies) have died during natural vaginal childbirth.. To me its like argueing against penicillin, i.e. people have been handling infections for years without antibiotics, why use unnecessary foreign substances now?

I like antibiotics, and i love c-sections. There are known risks with c-sections, but for me, the benefits of the c-section and the risks of a vaginal birth outweighed.

Knowing I was having the birth I wanted (c-section) was a comforting knowledge for me during my pregnancy.. I liked having Rome's birth "booked in", it helps me prepare psychologically. I liked knowing there was no risk of my vagina being ripped or cut - I like my vagina quite a bit, and much preferred a cut in my belly (which is actually lower than my bikini line..)

I dont have any fears of surgery, needles or drugs so a c-section was a no brainer for me. I just wish everyone had the choice to choose a c-section, like I did, if thats what they want...

Hope that helps you understand my perspective a little better :flowerz:

My C/s was for breech ... not purely elective, but you have summed up my feelings perfectly. Everyone is different, so their choices, their fears, their ideals will be different too. A natural birth is NOT the 'complete birth experience' that every single woman dreams about.


See these are words I have heard over and over again & quite frankly they need to be said with care as they are hurtful....as one could take it as you saying that a C/sec is not going through 'the birth process' or an amazing journey :(. I had a C/sec...yes not by choice & I did labour for 16hrs before hand but even if I didnt...believe me when I say it is a birth process and amazing!! They still pushed my bubba back & forth (simulating the birth carnal) so he knew to breathe, he still came out head first & took a breath, I still heard his little cry & saw his gooey face & pain be it contractions or needles in your back...rolling to move & wash after a C/sec...lifting & feeding your baby...They are BOTH pain endured (one which I will say lasts wks longer then labour) for that wee life & deserves credit no matter what!!!! It is still the greatest achievement in my life and yes as you said I just laid on my back & out he came...:eek:



:yes: :iagree:


To be honest I have to wonder if the OB did actually mention it in the 1st appointment. It is quite possible that your friend actually wasnt happy with the natural birth and long labour with her decent sized 1st baby? MANY women feel they've had a bad birth experience or even birth trauma and never speak about it. Is it possible she brought it up and asked if he would do one? I know I asked my OB at the very first appointment after the trauma of my 1st's birth. By saying that the OB mentioned it, kinda takes the questioning away from her if people have a problem with elective csections. They can get angry with the OB rather than your friend feeling like the world is against her. The fact she told you and that she said he mentioned it at every second appointment, sounds more to me like she was constantly checking with the OB that it could still be done. The same way Id be paranoid and asking all the time to make sure I was going to get the CS that I wanted.

Just a thought ???? Im not saying that you are lying at all, or that its not what your friend told you. But what goes on in a Dr's office and what gets told to family and friends is not always the same thing.

:yes: that thought occurred to me too.

[Josh]

I should start with a disclaimer that I have no intention of EVER birthing "naturally" and have big problems with people who judge my choice to birth through a non-medically necessary elective c-section...;)

We live in a country where if you go through the private medical system, you have a choice to elect to have a caesarean. (Personally I believe you should be able to elect for a c-section regardless of whether you are public or brivate, but thats another story...)

The OB wasn't "pushing" anything by the sounds of things, she was informing the woman of HER rights and choices. Just as YOU have choices in how you choose to give birth..

:iagree: with you fully too, why cant every woman have that choice, when pregnancy is confirmed we should be able to choose,
natural/homebirth/waterbirth/caesarean/freebirth, whatever the woman is comfortable with, I have had at least 2 really horrific vaginal births leaving me unable to walk for days, I could walk around quicker after my c/s's, with no where near the amount of pain.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Care of pregnant women, information and care in hospital leave alot to be desired. I do think something needs to change, but judging someone for their choice doesn't help.

[Chunkydunks]

Im so sorry to hijack ths thread but...do you have to be PRIVATE to have an elective c-section????

I had my son naturally but I suffered with a fissure for 18 months afterwards and my colorectal specialist has told me that due to the ferocity of it and the fact that after 2 surgeries it is only JUST starting to heal that any future babies would preferrably be cesarean...

OH NO I dont wanna get private just because Im afraid of ripping a new one again lol.

In your case that would be classed as a medical need for it. I'd say you'd get a CS no worries.

[Blueberry Crumble]

I guess some people might also choose C-Section because of the damage that Vbirths can cause to that *ahem* area. You only haveto look through the borth trauma threads to see that some women are ripped to shreds while birthing naturally. Vaginal prolapse, incontinence (both bladder and rectal) and being ripped from front to back. Unfortunately it does happen. Atleased with a C-Section, you dont haveto worry about these things.

[TripleTime]

I guess some people might also choose C-Section because of the damage that Vbirths can cause to that *ahem* area. You only haveto look through the borth trauma threads to see that some women are ripped to shreds while birthing naturally. Vaginal prolapse, incontinence (both bladder and rectal) and being ripped from front to back. Unfortunately it does happen. Atleased with a C-Section, you dont haveto worry about these things.

One of the reasons i have chosen the have a C/S before i evan new i was having triplets.

The thought of something like that happening scares me to no end & yes i do know there are risks with a C/S but they are one's im willing to accept.

[Sheer Bliss]

I guess some people might also choose C-Section because of the damage that Vbirths can cause to that *ahem* area. You only haveto look through the borth trauma threads to see that some women are ripped to shreds while birthing naturally. Vaginal prolapse, incontinence (both bladder and rectal) and being ripped from front to back. Unfortunately it does happen. Atleased with a C-Section, you dont haveto worry about these things.

Vaginal prolapse and incontinence can also happen with women who have c-sections. The sheer pressure of carrying a baby can be enough to cause these problems.

[Pax]

if she has had a VB before and wishes to NOT go through that again and chooses C/S that option is there for her and she wants it.

no big deal..

no one's business but hers..

i dont think anyone should comment on others birth choices.. how is it hurting You?

[Luna Lovegood]

I should start with a disclaimer that I have no intention of EVER birthing "naturally" and have big problems with people who judge my choice to birth through a non-medically necessary elective c-section...;)

We live in a country where if you go through the private medical system, you have a choice to elect to have a caesarean. (Personally I believe you should be able to elect for a c-section regardless of whether you are public or brivate, but thats another story...)

The OB wasn't "pushing" anything by the sounds of things, she was informing the woman of HER rights and choices. Just as YOU have choices in how you choose to give birth..

:iagree:

[clara01]

I am 42 and having first bub. My obstetrician has not mentioned C/S (I am going private). I have asked friends having babies and even when they have mentioned the possibility of C/S their obstetrician has encouraged them to have a vaginal delivery. It seems like a completely different experience than some are reporting.

However it seems a bit sad to me that some women who talk about empowering other women then proceed to belittle them for choosing a C/S. Surely if we are asking that women's choices be respected then we respect those choices even if we don't agree with them.

[teenie]

I'm with hunnybunny and just want to throw my two cents worth in about my ob and private hospital experience.

No mention of a c section - ever.

No drugs - midwife never suggested them, even when I was going a bit mental in transition:laughing:

I had a very long 2nd stage. My ob was there the whole time. In our birth plan we had specified that forceps/vacuum were to be the most last resort. He never mentioned them, gave me space and time, gave me advice when I asked for it, and in the end I birthed DS myself, no drugs, no intervention, all in a private hospital with a private ob.

I felt everything I held fast to about labour was validated.

I know my experience is just that, one experience, but I have read a lot of negative stuff about private obs on bubhub. I realise these stories are more than valid, but I also encourage others to speak up about their positive stories - balance is important.

BTW, Hunnybunny, I've seen some other posts of yours over time - I think we are at the same hospital lol.

[Sheer Bliss]

The OB wasn't "pushing" anything by the sounds of things, she was informing the woman of HER rights and choices. Just as YOU have choices in how you choose to give birth..


:iagree: with you fully too, why cant every woman have that choice, when pregnancy is confirmed we should be able to choose,
natural/homebirth/waterbirth/caesarean/freebirth, whatever the woman is comfortable with, I have had at least 2 really horrific vaginal births leaving me unable to walk for days, I could walk around quicker after my c/s's, with no where near the amount of pain.

But was he REALLY informing her of her birth choices (which I have NO problem with - I fully support informed choice) Did he also talk about homebirth, birthing centres, doula's and private midwives? So many people seem to be defending him saying that he was porviding a choice, but he was providing a choice that was suitable for him, not necesarily one that was suitable for her. And he didn't provide ALL the choices (i assume - sorry if that is wrong) so he wasn't really doing it in HER interests.

As for pain after naturalb birth/c-section - that is all dependant on the person and the experience - no two the same. A friend has had 2 natural births, 2 planned c-sections (in that order). Based on her experiences and recovery she would rank them (best to worst) second VB, second c/s, first birth, second c/s. So even int he same person the experiences can be very different. A wonderful natural birth experience for one person isn't going to be the same for another, same with c-section - comparisons here aren't really conclusive.

For the record - I am a private patient with a private OB, I dont' hate them, or think they are all evil - mine is great!!

[hunnybunny]

I'm with hunnybunny and just want to throw my two cents worth in about my ob and private hospital experience.

No mention of a c section - ever.

No drugs - midwife never suggested them, even when I was going a bit mental in transition:laughing:

I had a very long 2nd stage. My ob was there the whole time. In our birth plan we had specified that forceps/vacuum were to be the most last resort. He never mentioned them, gave me space and time, gave me advice when I asked for it, and in the end I birthed DS myself, no drugs, no intervention, all in a private hospital with a private ob.

I felt everything I held fast to about labour was validated.

I know my experience is just that, one experience, but I have read a lot of negative stuff about private obs on bubhub. I realise these stories are more than valid, but I also encourage others to speak up about their positive stories - balance is important.

BTW, Hunnybunny, I've seen some other posts of yours over time - I think we are at the same hospital lol.

Sounds like an awesome experience! Yes I think our hospital has a great reputation for such experiences too!
People seem to instantly think that if you go private you will be forced into the birth the OB wants which is definitely not always the case.

[nothanksbye]

If she has chosen an OB she has already decided not to use a midwife, homebirth, freebirth so I dont think its up to him to offer these or point them out as choices.. Thats like going to maccas and having the staff tell you how good KFC is! He would go out of business if he suggested other options then himself...who does that?

He is offering her the services he can perform. Thats all.
He has not said I only do Csections. He has just let her know that he can do them.

[Sheer Bliss]

If she has chosen an OB she has already decided not to use a midwife, homebirth, freebirth so I dont think its up to him to offer these or point them out as choices.. Thats like going to maccas and having the staff tell you how good KFC is! He would go out of business if he suggested other options then himself...who does that?

He is offering her the services he can perform. Thats all.
He has not said I only do Csections. He has just let her know that he can do them.

I don't think it's fair to compare a health care professional with fast food.....a health care professional should be there to care for the patient, not protect their own 'business'. ANY OB who is there solely to make sure his business thrives, so not one I would like caring for me and my babies. Of course that is factored into the equation, but shouldnt' be his main focus. An ear/nose/throat surgeon shouldn't offer to remove your adnoids and tonsils the first time he meets you...just because he can....your needs need to be assessed FIRST and it should be decided if surgery is warranted before it's offered about willy nilly. OB's are one of the rare 'specialists' that offer surgery based on a persons 'wants' rather than 'needs' (i fully accept emotional reasons as 'needs' in c-sections - not saying it wan't happen, but it shouldn't be the first point of call on the suggestion of the OB).

Midwife programs refer people onto OB's if they feel they are not matched - based on what is best for the PATIENT. So why is it wrong to expect the same to happen in reverse??

Our maternity system is in a much worse state than I thought if a comparison can be so easily made between giving birth and going to get take-out! :no:

[Teley]

He does sound very pushy!

I think your anger is well justified lm4b :). I would be peeved too!:yes:

[RedPanda]

I'm wondering if there's more to it. Perhaps your friend has reasons that she'd prefer not to go in to with you?

I believe VBs are best for baby and mum (in normal cases) and I would never elect to have a c/s, however I get a bit uncomfortable when picking at the decision of another woman. Some women elect to have them for emotional reasons and who's to say that's not "medical" enough?

And I'm quite surprised at the OB suggesting it. While the rates may be higher with OBs, I'm yet to find one who blatantly offers it as though he had a birth choice menu. The c/s happy ones at least make up flimsy reasons.

[NibbleCurlynBub]

If he is indeed pushing or 'suggesting' a c-sec often then yeah I'd be angry too.

Some 'professionals' need to remember that the choice is up to the mother.

It makes me very angry to hear of people pushing women to do one thing or other if its not medically necessary. :no:

[Pax]

Sorry obviously you're allowed your opinion and I'm not allowed mine.

My mistake :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

I just think it is such a personal choice and not something a friend should question. if you were being her friend you would support her choices.

i would be trying to make her feel comfortable with whatever choice she made this close to birth. she must be stressed enough.

i know i had to make a choice on VB and CS and it really was stressful.. and NOT up for others to stress me out about moreso or cause doubts.

[LuvMy4Babes]

I just think it is such a personal choice and not something a friend should question. if you were being her friend you would support her choices.

i would be trying to make her feel comfortable with whatever choice she made this close to birth. she must be stressed enough.

i know i had to make a choice on VB and CS and it really was stressful.. and NOT up for others to stress me out about moreso or cause doubts.

I didn't ever question her decision, say it was wrong or that I didn't agree. If you go back through the posts you will see that on Page 2, I said, and I quote:

I'm not forcing my opinions onto anyone actually. I simply put it out there for discussion. I did not push my preferences for VB onto my friend either, when she chose to have 2 c-sections :)

My friend and I are very close and she knows I am very pro-VB and very pro-BF and in fact she chooses c-sections and formula feeds. I didn't ever make her feel that she wasn't good enough because of my beliefs.

[Stella1]

I didn't ever question her decision, say it was wrong or that I didn't agree. If you go back through the posts you will see that on Page 2, I said, and I quote:

I'm not forcing my opinions onto anyone actually. I simply put it out there for discussion. I did not push my preferences for VB onto my friend either, when she chose to have 2 c-sections :)

My friend and I are very close and she knows I am very pro-VB and very pro-BF and in fact she chooses c-sections and formula feeds. I didn't ever make her feel that she wasn't good enough because of my beliefs.

What is it that makes you angry? (Not being snarky - just wondering about the thread title).
Are you angry at the ob? Your friend returned to the same ob for her third baby, so if she wasn't happy with the care she received, would she not have gone elsewhere?

[Pax]

What is it that makes you angry? (Not being snarky - just wondering about the thread title).
Are you angry at the ob? Your friend returned to the same ob for her third baby, so if she wasn't happy with the care she received, would she not have gone elsewhere?
yeah i guess the title got me confused too..

what does make you angry?

you blaming the OB for giving choices?

[Alekay]

Im so sorry to hijack ths thread but...do you have to be PRIVATE to have an elective c-section????

I had my son naturally but I suffered with a fissure for 18 months afterwards and my colorectal specialist has told me that due to the ferocity of it and the fact that after 2 surgeries it is only JUST starting to heal that any future babies would preferrably be cesarean...

OH NO I dont wanna get private just because Im afraid of ripping a new one again lol.

I had my first baby in a public hospital by Ceaser and there was no medical for me to have one. I had no private cover either.

[LuvMy4Babes]

What is it that makes you angry? (Not being snarky - just wondering about the thread title).
Are you angry at the ob? Your friend returned to the same ob for her third baby, so if she wasn't happy with the care she received, would she not have gone elsewhere?

I think it's best I don't answer that :laughing: many people are getting hot under the collar as it is.

[Teley]

I think it's best I don't answer that :laughing: many people are getting hot under the collar as it is.

Well I can completely understand where you are coming from :) .

[Freya]

Bringing them up as an option is OK, BUT in the first appt AND every second one since - THAT is pushing it! It's not making her aware of her options, it's being pushy, or suggestive if you want to be polite.
:iagree:

[LuvMy4Babes]

But was he REALLY informing her of her birth choices (which I have NO problem with - I fully support informed choice) Did he also talk about homebirth, birthing centres, doula's and private midwives? So many people seem to be defending him saying that he was porviding a choice, but he was providing a choice that was suitable for him, not necesarily one that was suitable for her. And he didn't provide ALL the choices (i assume - sorry if that is wrong) so he wasn't really doing it in HER interests.

As for pain after naturalb birth/c-section - that is all dependant on the person and the experience - no two the same. A friend has had 2 natural births, 2 planned c-sections (in that order). Based on her experiences and recovery she would rank them (best to worst) second VB, second c/s, first birth, second c/s. So even int he same person the experiences can be very different. A wonderful natural birth experience for one person isn't going to be the same for another, same with c-section - comparisons here aren't really conclusive.

For the record - I am a private patient with a private OB, I dont' hate them, or think they are all evil - mine is great!!

Somehow I missed this post. I completely agree and you're right, she was not given any choices except c-section, c-section, c-section OR "another horrible delivery like the first one".

[icugal]

I haven't read this thread at all because I just wanted to reply to the OP.

Firstly I'm probably more pro-caesar than anti-caesar (I've had both an emeregency and elective caesar myself)... however, I can kinda understand your concerns. It seems strange to me that an Ob would come straight out and suggest an elective caesar to someone who delivered naturally the last time.

The only thing I'm wondering is whether your friend was at all traumatised by her first birth and mentioned this the Ob at the time? Maybe that's why it was brought up.

A friend of mine had a natural VB first time around (public system), but then experienced a few problems for a few months after the birth. She ended up having an elective caesar for her second bub (private Ob).

[Pax]

i went public with my last baby which was elective C/S.

i received a combination of comments depending on the OB i saw at that visit.

some were adamantly for c/s others adamantly against.

i figured there must be strong pro's and cons either way and therefore took what i considered the safest option for my baby. c/s.

[Tammysgot3]

:iagree: ok so i had two completely natural births, no drugs and the only intervention was membrane rupture with the first,labour was already established. with my third the amniotic fluid was low and when i got my first contraction her heart stopped, the cord was wrapped around her three times, so we had an emergency c/s.

it has always been my biggest nightmare and i am now taking steps to not have any more children, so i don't EVER have to endure another.

i cannot understand why anyone would want to have an elective c/s with no medical reason. BUT this is just my opinionand everyone has one :yes:

[JackzMumma]

I had my first baby in a public hospital by Ceaser and there was no medical for me to have one. I had no private cover either.

I also had my Emerg. Caesar in a Public hospital, no cover, and have been offered a elective Caesar in my last pregnancy, same hospital. But I had a VBAC:thumbsup:. I'm glad I did it and wished that the midwife had never offered a Caesar to me, it was the hardest decision to make. I don't think the OB should have offered your friend an elective Caesar when there was no need for one:no:. After my VBAC, I realised I felt like they didn't try enough to get DS1 out, I feel like the surgeon was all for cuttting me open, but that's my personal opinion. :yes:

[Fuchsia!]

I had my elective C/S in a public hospital.

I think its sad that people don't support womens choices to birth the way they want. Very very sad.

[SPC]

I was frog matched into a caesar at 6pm in the public system and told I was to have my baby 'in office hours'!! By that time I was too scared and traumatised to object. Damn that baby boom, they were too busy to risk me needing a caesar at 4am. My paperwork says the reason was 'prolonged first stage', but I had only been in labour for 10 hours and both myself and the baby were fine. Next time I'm going private so that doesn't happen to me and I have some choice in the matter and hopefully a VBAC.

[LuvMy4Babes]

I was frog matched into a caesar at 6pm in the public system and told I was to have my baby 'in office hours'!! By that time I was too scared and traumatised to object. Damn that baby boom, they were too busy to risk me needing a caesar at 4am. My paperwork says the reason was 'prolonged first stage', but I had only been in labour for 10 hours and both myself and the baby were fine. Next time I'm going private so that doesn't happen to me and I have some choice in the matter and hopefully a VBAC.

I'm sorry you were subjected to a "forceful" c-section :(

Unfortunately statistics would have it that you are more likely to experience a repeat c-section in a private hospital. It seems most VBAC's (at least here in Perth) occur in a public hospital.

Good luck and I hope you get the birth you want next time :)

[LuvMy4Babes]

I had my elective C/S in a public hospital.

I think its sad that people don't support womens choices to birth the way they want. Very very sad.

It just frustates me that women would rather be cut open and have major surgery and a longer recovery time than birth a baby vaginally as nature intended.

[TripleTime]

It just frustates me that women would rather be cut open and have major surgery and a longer recovery time than birth a baby vaginally as nature intended.

Why? :confused:

[Knocked_for_six]

I don’t see why people get so worked up about others birth choice! :confused:

I did my research, my husband and I discussed it and we talked at length with my OB, and I decided to have an elective C-section. I don’t see why other people should be up in arms about that… after all my body, my informed choice!!

[Knocked_for_six]

I think its sad that people don't support womens choices to birth the way they want. Very very sad.

I agree, it is very sad! :(

[TripleTime]

I don’t see why people get so worked up about others birth choice! :confused:

I did my research, my husband and I discussed it and we talked at length with my OB, and I decided to have an elective C-section. I don’t see why other people should be up in arms about that… after all my body, my informed choice!!

As did i.

Same with my disicion to NOT breastfeed.

[LuvMy4Babes]

Why? :confused:

I guess because for centuries women have been having babies vaginally and for some reason now, c-section is the thing to do :( I fear that in 20, 30, 50 years our future generation of women will not be able to even be given the choice to birth a baby vaginally.

[bada]

I think most ppl in this country have access to enough info to be able to make an informed decision.

No-one forced your friend to use the OB, she chose to and could have just as easily chose not to.

Even though I am scared sh!tless of ever having a cs, I am so glad the option is there. Like a PP said you only have to read a couple of the birth trauma stories on here to see how horrific vb is for some and who are we to say those ppl have to try to have another horrific vb.

[TripleTime]

Thats your option & your intitaled to it.

I however will never have a VB

[bada]

I guess because for centuries women have been having babies vaginally and for some reason now, c-section is the thing to do :( I fear that in 20, 30, 50 years our future generation of women will not be able to even be given the choice to birth a baby vaginally.

Do you mean their bodies will evolve that way?:confused:

[Fuchsia!]

It just frustates me that women would rather be cut open and have major surgery and a longer recovery time than birth a baby vaginally as nature intended.

The women who choose to have an elect C/s for purely elective reasons are in the minority.

There is nothing you will be able to do to change their minds. And nor should you have to. This is the choice they have made for their bodies. Why not respect that.

What we should all be focusing our frustration on and should be angry at is Un necessary C/S's. They are the important ones, they are the ones that aren't in the minority.

These women are the ones suffering, they are the ones that need our empathy and they are the ones that we should put our energy in.

Do you really know the reasons why women choose elect C/S? Are you in their head feeling the way they do? Know their exact reasons?

Maybe they are holding something back, maybe they are covering up their real reasons. Or maybe they have a great fear of childbirth.

Its ok to not want to give birth vaginally, its not everyones cup of tea. If they choose that and make an informed decision then whats the problem? They are happy with their decision, they are happy for the decision they made on THEIR body.

Don't judge someone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes. You have no idea what their real reasons are.

And i can tell you that not all vaginal births have better healing then a C/S.

How do you feel about the rights of homebirthers right being taken away at the moment?

How would you feel if you were made to have a C/S even though you wanted a VB? Would you feel violated? Frustrated? Scared?

These are the feeling of a C/S mum.

[Beahes Doula]

We live in a country where if you go through the private medical system, you have a choice to elect to have a caesarean. (Personally I believe you should be able to elect for a c-section regardless of whether you are public or brivate, but thats another story...)

But do we have a choice as to how we birth our babies really ??

I went through the private system and was denied the birth of my choice ! I would dearly of loved to have my own midwife - whom I got to chose not one who was assigned to me through a hospital, and been able to deliver at the hospital of my choice (public teaching hospital) with my midwife in attendance and the knowledge that I was able to access any emergency facilities (including the OB on call) if needed.

Interesting that that we can 'chose' to have a birth that costs the medicare system and our health funds thousands of dollars, not to mention tying up an operating theatre and their staff unnecessarily with the doctor of our choice but we cannot 'chose' to have a natural birth costing much much less with a midwife of our choice. I wasn't interested in birthing in a private hospital - getting my own room - supposedly better food etc, I just wanted to have my baby the way nature intended with women around me with whom I felt safe and comfortable with, but with the availability of emergency back up, as should be my right as a tax paying Australian.

We do not have CHOICE in Australia and it is very sad that women wish to give grief to other woman on their choices. Instead of wasting that energy lets support choice for all women - c-section or independent midwives, we should ALL be given equal choices, public or private.
:yes:

[Chunkydunks]

Can I ask how this thread went from talking about OB's pushing CS onto women to having a go at those that have/want a CS?

[Knocked_for_six]

The women who choose to have an elect C/s for purely elective reasons are in the minority.

There is nothing you will be able to do to change their minds. And nor should you have to. This is the choice they have made for their bodies. Why not respect that.

What we should all be focusing our frustration on and should be angry at is Un necessary C/S's. They are the important ones, they are the ones that aren't in the minority.

These women are the ones suffering, they are the ones that need our empathy and they are the ones that we should put our energy in.

Do you really know the reasons why women choose elect C/S? Are you in their head feeling the way they do? Know their exact reasons?

Maybe they are holding something back, maybe they are covering up their real reasons. Or maybe they have a great fear of childbirth.

Its ok to not want to give birth vaginally, its not everyones cup of tea. If they choose that and make an informed decision then whats the problem? They are happy with their decision, they are happy for the decision they made on THEIR body.

Don't judge someone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes. You have no idea what their real reasons are.

And i can tell you that not all vaginal births have better healing then a C/S.

How do you feel about the rights of homebirthers right being taken away at the moment?

How would you feel if you were made to have a C/S even though you wanted a VB? Would you feel violated? Frustrated? Scared?

These are the feeling of a C/S mum.


:iagree: Very well said!

[Knocked_for_six]

Can I ask how this thread went from talking about OB's pushing CS onto women to having a go at those that have/want a CS?

This is just an assumption- I *think* people believe that if a women chooses to have an elective c-section it is for the most part because an obstetrician has pushed it upon her, that a informed women wouldn't choose a c-section.

[KatiesMum]

The women who choose to have an elect C/s for purely elective reasons are in the minority.

There is nothing you will be able to do to change their minds. And nor should you have to. This is the choice they have made for their bodies. Why not respect that.

What we should all be focusing our frustration on and should be angry at is Un necessary C/S's. They are the important ones, they are the ones that aren't in the minority.

These women are the ones suffering, they are the ones that need our empathy and they are the ones that we should put our energy in.

Do you really know the reasons why women choose elect C/S? Are you in their head feeling the way they do? Know their exact reasons?

Maybe they are holding something back, maybe they are covering up their real reasons. Or maybe they have a great fear of childbirth.

Its ok to not want to give birth vaginally, its not everyones cup of tea. If they choose that and make an informed decision then whats the problem? They are happy with their decision, they are happy for the decision they made on THEIR body.

Don't judge someone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes. You have no idea what their real reasons are.

And i can tell you that not all vaginal births have better healing then a C/S.

How do you feel about the rights of homebirthers right being taken away at the moment?

How would you feel if you were made to have a C/S even though you wanted a VB? Would you feel violated? Frustrated? Scared?

These are the feeling of a C/S mum.

:iagree:

Thank you Jaxcoop. You have expressed that beautifully

[harvey123]

i wish i could restrain from getting involved in this age old arguement....in defence of obs out there like mine, i had an emerg c/s with my first and it was my obs who supported me into a vbac for my second...his midwife tried to talk me out of it and i only didn't choose an elect c/s the second time because he said i could back out of the vb if i felt it was too much. not all obs are c/s happy, some and i'd say most really care for their patients and just want them to feel comfortable.....at the end of the day we all have our opinions and we can just make our decisions based on own feelings.

[clara01]

It is wondeful that Australia has a low infant mortality which allows us the luxury of having these discussions. I think however alot of women do not have the experience of when many women died having babies. I do because my parents were immigrants and my grandmother talked about women in her village who died in childbirth as she nearly did. This does not mean that women should not have their choices respected or that we cannot have innovative programs. In some parts of Europe home births for low-risk mothers are part of the mainstream but the distances to hospital are small. In these situations the risk to mum and bub is not higher than in hospital.

Women can have very legitimate reasons for "elective caesarians" eg high likelihood of needing a c/s and difficult to intubate- so do not want the trainee anaesthetist to be trying to anaesthetise them at 4am.

I suppose I am trying to say it would be helpful to have open non-judgemental discussions looking at all the facts rather than taking a side and ignoring evidence against your opinion. This is not a black and white issue but there are many factors which lead women to make decisions they make.

I personally as a woman resent anyone who feels they have the right to over-turn any decision I have made about my own body whether it be to have a vaginal or C/S delivery or whether to breast-feed or not. That does not really show respect for womens' autonomy.

[PinkAngel]

I guess I find the whole process of labouring, contractions, pushing the baby out to be the complete birth process. Yes it's painful, but what an amazing journey. It's hard for me to imagine simply laying on the table and then someone handing me my baby. I don't mean for that to sound horrible, but that is honestly and seriously how I feel. I would feel totally ripped off to have my baby that way.
This is probably a little off topic but seeing as the OP posted these words I had to reply.

I know this is your opinion but more care might be taken in wording it. I had a C/S (medically required but a C/s nonethe less). Are you saying my son's birth wasn't as valid as yours? Come on, I know you are making a point but try and be mindful of other womens situations. You say you don't mean for it to sound horrible but to me it does.


However it seems a bit sad to me that some women who talk about empowering other women then proceed to belittle them for choosing a C/S. Surely if we are asking that women's choices be respected then we respect those choices even if we don't agree with them.
:iagree: I totally agree with that. Each to their own. We all have our own opinions but let's respect our choices. Having a child is such an amazing experience and I feel truly blessed.

[Fuchsia!]

I guess I find the whole process of labouring, contractions, pushing the baby out to be the complete birth process. Yes it's painful, but what an amazing journey. It's hard for me to imagine simply laying on the table and then someone handing me my baby. I don't mean for that to sound horrible, but that is honestly and seriously how I feel. I would feel totally ripped off to have my baby that way.

So for that reason, I feel the need to encourage people to birth vaginally. For them to have the same awesome and amazing experiences that I did.

Just because you had an awesome exprience and its what you wanted doesn't mean everyone else does. A VB just doesn't appeal to some.

I can tell you now that a C/S can be very every empowering and an amazing exprience and awesome.

I have had both and they were equally just as great.

Tread very carefully, those words that you have said lack empathy and can be very hurtful

[LuvMy4Babes]

This is probably a little off topic but seeing as the OP posted these words I had to reply.

I know this is your opinion but more care might be taken in wording it. I had a C/S (medically required but a C/s nonethe less). Are you saying my son's birth wasn't as valid as yours? Come on, I know you are making a point but try and be mindful of other womens situations. You say you don't mean for it to sound horrible but to me it does.



I don't think any of my babies births are any more valid than yours. I was asked why I felt this way and was trying to explain it.

If everyone who elects to have a c-section is happy and empowered by their birth choice, then there is no need for them to find my words hurtful :confused:

[beebs]

I had an absolute shi*t and traumatic VB. It took me 4 months to recover physically (not to mention my little man being sick too) from it and I am still recovering mentally from it almost 3 years later. Lots of therapy and anti depressants. So I am electing for a C/section this time - its scares me half to death the thought of it....but not near close to how much another traumatic VB does. My ob is pro whatever the woman wants - he was happy enough to delivery naturally or c/section. I just wish everyone could be as opened minded as him.

[Fuchsia!]

I don't think any of my babies births are any more valid than yours. I was asked why I felt this way and was trying to explain it.

If everyone who elects to have a c-section is happy and empowered by their birth choice, then there is no need for them to find my words hurtful :confused:

Its not about hurting those who have had an empowering exprience, its hurting those that have had a very traumatic C/S or an unwanted C/S.

[PunkyDiva]

There's quite a few woman who've replied here that had purely elective c/s, some having already experienced a normal v/b, and have given reasons for not v/b again. Such as tearing, fissures, incontinence etc.
They also say they have made "informed" choices so just interested in what cons of c/s you are aware of or that your OB talked about.
Not having a go, I seriously want to know if OB's do share this with clients or if any/many do research themselves.
Also, what steps can/did you take to ensure your c/s went well. We hear all about prep for v/b so wonder about this. :thumbsup:

Re: the mum v/bing twins, are you able to birth without an epidural or does your hospy say that is protocol ?

Sorry, I'm a bit nosy(you can tell me to rack off :p) but it's research and I'm genuinely interested.

There are still many OB's around who do "push" c/s, mainly for legal reasons. It is a much more controlled environment in their favour.

Interesting that the US went down this path of Maternity being Obstetric led and high c/s and intervention rates but it's now doing a huge turnaround and going back slowly to Midwifery led, mainly from consumer power but also significant research into birth & health outcomes over the past decade.

OP...I understand your anger and hope maybe you have gained a bit better understanding of why your friend maybe?? chose her c/s as there has been some great posts here.

[Chunkydunks]

Can I just say punky that my Mum had me and my twin brother naturally and without any pain relief. She said for most of the time she didn't feel a thing until she went into transition. I was footling breech and my brother was bum first. Mind you we were her 4th and 5th children.

[Knocked_for_six]

I was given a rundown of the risk involved (infections, excess blood loss, longer recovery, injury to other organs, anesthesia complications, higher maternal mortality and respiratory complications for the baby etc...) with a c-section when I my OB first suggested a c-section with my second son who was breech, he also suggested some readings to inform ourselves further; my husband and I then did our own research. With the triplets we more or less discussed with my OB the risk of a VB delivery, what is possible? What are the common difficulties and problems that can arise with high order multiples when birthed vaginally? What studies/reach has been done of birthing triplets? What experience he had with HOM VB. We also did an enormous amount of research ourselves.

Sorry I didn't go into the details of all the risk that were informed of, as they have been maintained countless times in various threads and because I am being lazy. :o

[Fuchsia!]

My OB didn't explain any of the cons at all. Lucky for me i was already aware of the risks concerning myself and my baby. Do you want me to tell you what I think were the cons of a C/S?

Anyway to ensure i had an awesome exprience, i read as much i can about C/S's. I wanted to know everything right down to the catheter. I wanted to know exactly what would happen. I made sure as soon as i was with bubs that I chucked him on my naked chest and bonded with him, and i breastfed him straight away.

I was well aware of the higher risks of PND and i also knew that my breastfeeding might be harder this time round. So i made sure we had the important bonding time and got straight into breastfeeding.

Next time i will be aiming for an Maternal Assisted C/S. Well thats after i contact every OB/Gyn there is to make sure homebirth is out of the question

[Sheer Bliss]

PD - I am planning to VB my twins. The private hospy (that I am booked into - so long as we make it to next wed with no more false starts!) have no policies on epidurals. Same as the big public accross the road. Same as the public that is closer to my home. It surprised me, as you hear ALL the time that there is hospital rules saying you have to have an epi for twins, but 3 hospy's here all don't have that policy. My OB hasn't mentioned it, and is quite happy to proceed with VB with twin A head down, twin B breech. I think if I asked for a c-section, he might say yes, but because I know what he wants - he is very happy to go ahead with it. (i'd be looking elsewhere if he wasn't anyway!) These bubbas are my 3rd & 4th bubs with the same OB - not sure if that is relevant or not though.

[embryonichappyperson]

I had my DS naturally but not with out alot of assistance via forceps and a 3rd degree tear. I ended up with a broken tail bone as well. After all that I found out that he weighed in at 11lb 15oz.

The birth experience was awful and I vowed never to go natural again!

As soon as I found out I was pregnant with this one I booked into a Ob and I WAS the one that brought up a elective c/s off the bat at the first app. She agreed after reading my notes from my last birth and what I told her that I would be *stupid* to have a natural labour again lol. I agreed!

I hate how if I mention I'm having a elective c/s women want to know why and frown at me. So I have to give a brief rundown of my first birth experience and why I'm doing it.

This baby is looking to be a big one too and another boy. Not as big as my DS but still pretty close.

I don't have GD either and I didn't with DS. I think it's the womans personal choice and if a woman wants to have a elective c/s for no other reason apart from they can then that's their buso.

[Liddy]

What makes me angry is when women who have never had a c/s come along and tell you that c/s should be looked down upon and that a VB is the proper way to give birth. I never got to choose and sadly some of us don't! You know that before c/s women and babies just died during childbirth, a c/s in some cases can be life SAVING! I think some ppl forget that, and since expecting my second child I have felt probably equally frightened of a vaginal birth as I have a repeat c/s. At the present a c/s is more appealing to me because after the labour I went through with my daughter it left me dead scared and frightened that infact my body WAS incapable of giving birth. I laboured long and hard for 72 hours from when contractions started to when my emergency c/s was done and it left me traumatised. My daughter wasn't born breathing, she spent a few days in special care and I was left with nothing but a huge blur and nightmare of my daughter's entrance into the world, don't get me wrong she was well worth it but since you haven't had a c/s you have no idea what it feels like to not give birth naturally, to have that taken from you, to fear your body may just be incapable of pushing a baby out naturally and safely. You have no idea what it feels like to HAVE to make a choice.

I honestly don't know why so many ppl just sit back and choose to make assumptions and judgements upon other ppls parenting choices especially when they haven't even been through the same things! Amazing really, because I couldn't care less how somebody else gave birth, i'd support them with their choice whether I thought that was right for them or not... that's just not my place to say.

[PunkyDiva]

Thankyou for your replies lubblies :thumbsup: and wow!! very informed. Was just wondering as there is a lot of scaremongering that does go on to force woman into c/s and then we see them traumatised because they don't realise some/what can go on afterwards. So much you can do to prepare yourselves as some of you have posted about and that's fantastic.

For people who just chose c/s straight up with no previous birthing experience (elective, no medical reason), do you think it was a societal thing ??
Do you only hear stories from family and friends about horror v/b's or did you hear no stories so imagine v/b as far too yucky or scary or... ?

In many European countries where v/b is just the norm and there's not really a choice as such, c/s is thought of as purely for emergencies, it's an entirely different mentality so just wondering, again :D

If anyone caught the Insight debate a month or so back, on Maternity Reform, the first woman up was a elective c/s birther, private OB, and she said she was informed and v/b was yucky. After sitting and listening to other woman talking about v/b and homebirth, when the camera's finished rolling she came up to some Midwives and was asking them about v/b as it became apparent to her that her knowledge was far from accurate. This is why I am asking as wondering how many don't know what they don't know, so to speak and so truly beleive they are making informed choices.

So happy to hear the hospies around you are promoting birth of twins as naturally as possible.
Our local hospy only does twins with epidural immediately upon presentation at hospital and breech is an aotomatic c/s. Of course you can decline but they make it really rough and at a time when a woman needs support it's def not ideal. But I'm on their case :p

To the last poster, :hugs: I am so sorry you endured such a long, complicated birth. It's not ussual for hospitals to allow woman to labour so long most pull the plug and opt for c/s much earlier. You were obviously traumatised by it and I can empathise with your c/s choice for future births.
I don't beleive people look down on those who opt the c/s route, I just think they find it scary that someone would want an operation and all that goes/can go with that choice just as some people can't understand why woman want to birth at home. All births come with risks and it is your right to weigh it all up for yourself.

I beleive it very important for us to share birthing stories, good and bad, too long it has been such a taboo subject and now so much fear surrounding it instead of the amazing journey it is whatever your birth choice. The only thing I was told with my first pregnancy was by my mum and she told me labour was like bad constipation, of course in those days there was no active labour etc, just kiss DH goodbye at the door, eneama, flat on your back on a hard bed, shaved and legs in stirrups. Of course you also got to stay a week in bed :p I love the idea in Holland where the Gov subsides a home help (few hours a day) for about a month after birth. About 50% of their woman birth at home and also get daily visits from a Midwife and are encouraged to stay in bed bonding with bub establishing feeding etc. Just such a gentler start for bub and kinder on the mums then what a lot of woman here get in public system. I know it's a lot nicer private and why so many do opt that route.
Anyways, enough of my babble. :o

[shymmer]

To the OP - Did your friend ever say she didn't want a c-sec? I just get the feeling perhaps she instigated the whole c-sec idea but doesn't want to say so. If she told the Ob her first birth experience was horrible then she was looking for alternatives so she didn't have a repeat. She may not have been against the c-sec idea at all, but made it sound like it was all the Ob's doing. Just a thought.
I have a friend who talked c-sec right up to about 32 wks and then said she thought she wanted a vb. And then says bub is breach so has to have a c-sec . . .but I got the distinct feeling she really still wanted the c-sec but thought it sounded better (less judgement) if it was the Ob's idea, not hers. And even when she talks about a vbac for future pregnancies, she says she wants one - but focuses on all reasons why she shouldn't have one - when there is just as much evidence to say a vbac is no more risk than a 1st vb. She is looking for reasons to have to have another c-sec, rather than to just say she wants one. Some women are like that.

But if indeed the Ob did push it on your friend and she made noises about NOT wanting one, then that's not good. It can be offered, but not pushed. And that is where your anger lies? With it being pushed on women? I mean, I understand you don't agree with elective c-secs, but this post is about it being pushed into one?


Punky Diva - re: Societal reasons : I read both positive and traumatic birth stories on both vb's and c-secs. So had rounded knowledge that both could be good or bad. So my decision for a purely elective c-sec was my idea, purely personal, thoroughly researched and with no thought to anyone elses opinion.

[LuvMy4Babes]

I guess at the end of the day we'll just all have to agree to disagree.

I have my opinions and they are obviously not shared by some of you and that's fine :)

[LuvMy4Babes]

What makes me angry is when women who have never had a c/s come along and tell you that c/s should be looked down upon and that a VB is the proper way to give birth. I never got to choose and sadly some of us don't! You know that before c/s women and babies just died during childbirth, a c/s in some cases can be life SAVING! I think some ppl forget that, and since expecting my second child I have felt probably equally frightened of a vaginal birth as I have a repeat c/s. At the present a c/s is more appealing to me because after the labour I went through with my daughter it left me dead scared and frightened that infact my body WAS incapable of giving birth. I laboured long and hard for 72 hours from when contractions started to when my emergency c/s was done and it left me traumatised. My daughter wasn't born breathing, she spent a few days in special care and I was left with nothing but a huge blur and nightmare of my daughter's entrance into the world, don't get me wrong she was well worth it but since you haven't had a c/s you have no idea what it feels like to not give birth naturally, to have that taken from you, to fear your body may just be incapable of pushing a baby out naturally and safely. You have no idea what it feels like to HAVE to make a choice.

I honestly don't know why so many ppl just sit back and choose to make assumptions and judgements upon other ppls parenting choices especially when they haven't even been through the same things! Amazing really, because I couldn't care less how somebody else gave birth, i'd support them with their choice whether I thought that was right for them or not... that's just not my place to say.

Lydia I said that VB was the way our bodies were designed to give birth, not that it was the PROPER way as you put it. Also, this thread was about "elective" c-sections, not emergency c-secs which I know are completely unavoidable at times.

This started out as a discussion about pushy OB's forcing their preference to perform c-sections on women who do not necessarily need one, that's all.

[polony]

Your body, your choice. Nuff said.

[MamaLlama]

We live in a country where if you go through the private medical system, you have a choice to elect to have a caesarean. (Personally I believe you should be able to elect for a c-section regardless of whether you are public or brivate, but thats another story...)

The OB wasn't "pushing" anything by the sounds of things, she was informing the woman of HER rights and choices. Just as YOU have choices in how you choose to give birth..

I totally agree with livly on this.

I have been advised (by a couple of specialists not just the OB) that a c section for me, given my medical history, would be much riskier than for the average woman and thus much more than a vag birth so try to avoid it. BUT, if that were not the case I think there's nothing to pick between them. Frankly, it doesn't matter a fig how you have the kid if its the experience you want and it is minimally safe.

Eg. I think homebirth is crazy (JMO, each to their own and all that)...but still that's my view. BUT I accept it is minimally safe for some women, and thus they should be allowed to choose it. Same with c section - which btw is only marginally more risky than the modal vag birth and a lot LESS risky than a complicated vag birth.

Let's put this in perspective. Birth used to kill thousands of women within my grandmother's lifetime (before antibiotics). In fact she gave birth to 3 of her 4 children before antibiotics and the stats for survival were terrible.

Fast forward - the risks of EITHER c section OR vag birth are miniscule by comparison. Why are we even bothering to split the hairs?

Also t he OP mentioned "no horrible after effects" well maybe she did have. Maybe she hated her birth experience, hated the pain and the whole thing, maybe she is very traumatised by it and you just don't have a clue? I personally wanted to throw myself through a plate glass window when I was in unmedicated labour and they were stuffing me around instead of giving me the blessed epidural. If I had had to go through that for any longer I could be choosing a c section DESPITE my personal situation where they are actually objectively quite risky.

I believe we all have a right to at least try for the birth experience we want, recognising that we might not get it and that could be no one's fault. If that birth experience is a c section then why should it bother you?

Also - the whole "how could you do that to yourself" thing speaks of someone who is pathologically terrified of hospitals and surgery. I've had 30+ major surgeries, trust me a c section of itself (minus, as I say the complications caused by my prior surgeries) would be a walk in the park by comparison. From my POV it seems peevish to think there's anything hard about a c section, you should try some of the surgery I've been through! :laughing::laughing:

I guess I'm just saying this whole thread lacks a bit of perspective. Hope I can spread some around.

[LuvMy4Babes]

You know the more I think about it, some of you may have a point. Maybe my friend did feel very terrified and/or traumatised after her 1st difficult VB birth and brought it up to her OB, hence why he then offered the choice of an elective c-section.

I, too, was terrified of giving birth, every single time. Not terrified enough to want a c-section but terrified nonetheless. I guess there are people out there who are sooo terrified that it becomes overwhelming, hence choosing a c-section.

Thanks for the enlightenment. I guess at the end of the day it's not how the baby gets here, but that the baby gets here safely and has loving parents to welcome them into the world, love, cherish and nurture them :)

[MamaLlama]

I think its pretty patronising to say "sooooo terrified" you'd even have a caesar....

Some women may simply feel that a vag birth was not for them, been there done that, not fun, don't want that again. There's no terror necessariliy involved. It is quite possible to just want something better/different/other.

[LuvMy4Babes]

I think its pretty patronising to say "sooooo terrified" you'd even have a caesar....

Some women may simply feel that a vag birth was not for them, been there done that, not fun, don't want that again. There's no terror necessariliy involved. It is quite possible to just want something better/different/other.

I wasn't being the least bit patronising. Did you notice I was admitting I was wrong by any chance?????????

I know there are women who are very very terrified of VB and that is why they choose c-section. Nothing patronising about it!

[MamaLlama]

Kudos for admitting your misconceptions of course. But I for one would find it very patronising to be told I must be terrified in order to make the choice I am making (whatever it is). I think women are capable to making rational decisions about their births without being terrified or ill-informed. If you had simply said "she obviously did not like her previous birth experience" I would have made no objection. Its all in the language.

[LuvMy4Babes]

Kudos for admitting your misconceptions of course. But I for one would find it very patronising to be told I must be terrified in order to make the choice I am making (whatever it is). I think women are capable to making rational decisions about their births without being terrified or ill-informed. If you had simply said "she obviously did not like her previous birth experience" I would have made no objection. Its all in the language.

Then that is YOUR misconception. I did not say that every single woman who has ever chosen an elective c-section must have been terrified of VB. I simply said there were women out there for whom that is the case.

[Mummabeartotwo]

I have not read all the replies. Dont really care to either LOL

My first was an "emergency c section" 37 hours active labour... failure to wait.. opps i mean progress, fetal distress due to induction, baby in less then optimal birthing position due to epi dural..

11 months later fell pregnant again.

told vbac out of the question ... after months of wanting a HBAC i gave in and had a repeat cs.

Was there medical reason? Guess thats a matter of opinion.
To the general consensus they would assume uterine rupture was a huge risk.
To myself it wasnt a risk i was worried about.

I simply and sadly gave in.

I totally agree with the OPer i oppose elective cs's which some might think is pretty hypocritical of me.

[Boobycino]

I think as woman, particularly as woman who've shared in the experience of having children - no matter how our babies came into the world - have an obligation to support and respect one anothers decisions, no matter what we think we would do in the same situation.

I think choice is something we should celebrate together.

[Bubmum]

I cannot believe i read this whole thread, phew. Wow, some passion on both sides, and the age old arguments come out.
I would say to the OP..your friend had a v/b, and then a c/s. And then her third birth choice is...a c/s. Sounds like she made her choice of c/s over v/b.
Perhaps her OB was a little bit pushy..sometimes c/sections are done for convenience, but on both sides. I think this is very low on the scale. Out of the 15 women in my Mother's group, I was the only one to have a c/section (emergency after 2 days of labour..bubs and I would both be dead :ecomcity:). They were all horrified at what I had to go through, treated me with reverence as though I had been grossly mauled, so I can understand where the v/birthers are coming from. To the outsider it would seem grossly invasive, and traumatic, but the birth of my Dd was the most overwhelming and wonderful day of my life. It was the day my life truly began, and it doesn't matter how she came into the world. I hope to have a v/bac when the next bubby comes along, just so I can compare the two. Something with candles, less screaming (from me, hahaha), and possibly not the entire family in the room this time.

[MamaLlama]

Something with candles, less screaming (from me, hahaha), and possibly not the entire family in the room this time.

You made me :D Bubmum! You know you haven't had a vag birth if you think there's less screaming involved :yes:

Good luck getting the birth you really want though. I think we're all entitled to try for that, yes also if it is a c section! :yes:

[AntiDrs]

I agree DRs are to C Section happy, heavens forbid if their sleep is interrupted or their late for golf! If your so into sleeping and golf " DON'T BE AN OB ", its pretty simple. Sure their are times were they are necessary ( like my case but looks like I'm refusing anyways) any ways that's another story, but in my opinion a natural labor is so rewarding I imagine a CS would be like getting a baby off a shelf at the local shop. Just my opinion every one has a choice in whats right for them but provided its their choice not forced into it for a Drs convinience.

[Knocked_for_six]

Wow, AntiDrs... what a lovely username :rolleyes:

[AntiDrs]

Thank you knocked_for_six! Just how I'm feeling and after my recent experiences I never see that changing lol.

[Knocked_for_six]

I am sorry you had an awful birthing experience, but I can assure you that not all obstetricians out there are C-section happy, just a few that give all others a bad reputation. If you don't mind me asking why is your OB wanting you to have a c-section?

Also the comment
"I imagine a CS would be like getting a baby off a shelf at the local shop" I know that is your opinion, but there are many of us on here that don't have much choice about having a c-section, so a such comment is quite insensitive.

[Mummaholic]

Wow, another one of these threads.

I went private, twice, with different OBs. Neither forced a c-section of me, or offered it early. I ended up having one the 2nd time for various reasons, mostly medically necessary. Even when I was booking in for the c-section, my OB told me he was happy to have me try naturally but that there would be BIG risks (medical ones) and explained these in detail.

But I don't judge those or get angry about women who elect a caesar for 'no reason'. I would argue that there is never 'no reason'. Even if it is just her preference, that's a reason and I'm sure she has a rationale for that.

She is not required to explain, justify or qualify her choice to anyone but herself. Does that make you angry? Really? Wow.

I never would advocate a woman being forced into a birthing situation against her wishes (ie natural, caesar, whatever) unless there is a real possibility of death or permanent injury. Even then the line is dicey. My opinion is: who cares what others do? To each their own.

Also I can assure you my c-section was nothing like getting a baby off a shelf. I felt the same immense love, relief, adreneline and pure joy I felt from my 26 hr natural birth. I was less tired though, and had no pain. I cried with love, hugged him tight and looked into his little blue eyes. I didn't have to fall in love because that happened in utero :D

Why would you even think to say having a caesar is like getting a baby off a shelf? That is incredibly offensive. And what experience do you have to back that up?

Also it took me longer to heal from my natural birth due to 3rd (almost 4th) degree tearing and it was a lot more painful and problematic than my caesar.

[Stella1]

I agree DRs are to C Section happy, heavens forbid if their sleep is interrupted or their late for golf! If your so into sleeping and golf " DON'T BE AN OB ", its pretty simple. Sure their are times were they are necessary ( like my case but looks like I'm refusing anyways) any ways that's another story, but in my opinion a natural labor is so rewarding I imagine a CS would be like getting a baby off a shelf at the local shop. Just my opinion every one has a choice in whats right for them but provided its their choice not forced into it for a Drs convinience.

I can assure you that the birth of my son by c-section was nothing like "getting a baby off the shelf at the local shop' and implying that the most amazing moment of my life can be compared with something so trivial is frankly offensive.

[AntiDrs]

Hi I just explaining how I feel about a C section, and yes I have been told I have to have one due to grade 4 Placenta Previa... Im so over the care I have received Ive decided Drs can go jump.... Im staying home not going nowhere! Like I said theres reasons for them, but drs over do them too. I just meant that I find natural birth rewarding, the idea of not delivering naturaly to me is like picking a baby off a shelf....not saying all women need to feel like that everyone has a right an a choice, whats right 4 1 is not necesarly right for another but Its each mothers right not a Drs right.

[wantvba2c]

I have had 2 c-sections. Not by choice. I wanted "natural" births. This time around, I have done plenty of research and and going for a "natural" birth again. This is against Dr's wishes but when I weigh up the risks involved and what I went through after my two c-sections. There are fewer risks physically and emotionally with a "natural" birth.

I agree that everyone should have a choice. What I believe the problem is that the Ob's forget to telly ou about what its like after you have this major operation.

This is not necessarily for all women but for most:

- getting out of bed is almost impossible without intense pain.

- having a shower is painful, especially if you drop the soap. Uh oh!

- getting up out of a chair

So I think you get that now, there are so many things you dont realise you use your stomach muscles for.

Some more things:

- possible issues bonding with baby

- possible breastfeeding issues

- infection (surprisingly common)

- pain and tenderness, itchiness, numbness, ingrown hairs around scar for a long time after and sometime permanent.

- muscles just dont heal back the same and it can be almost like an extra fat roll (some women will understand this one)

I could go on an on. Please remember that this is not with all women but I have spoken to many many women who have had c-sections and most will agree with these things. The Doctors fail to tell you all these things.

Then what about the chances of hysterectomy? They are higher in c-section than vaginal birth. Also it sounds harsh but there is a higher chance of death having an operation (unless of course you have complications during a vaginal birth but then in most cases they will perform a c-section at this stage to prevent bad stuff occurring)

I look forward to being able to have a shower and do normal things after having this baby.

There are many Obs who prefer c-sections than vaginal birth because:

- it keeps their schedule neat and tidy

- they trust themselves more than nature

- they simply like to perform operations

Ok I will stop babbling now. Like I said Im all for people having choices but I think they need to know all these things as well.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and hearing about peoples different opinions.

[Mummaholic]

It's true there is some pain standing up etc. I found the first time to be extremely hard (24 hrs later because I had a spinal not epi) mainly because i was due for my pain medication. I recommend first timers only try to stand up 20 mins or so after their meds. Won't hurt as much then. They say the first time is hardest and this is true. However, it was increasingly easy after this. And it was only for a short time.

I found after my natural birth I had trouble sitting/lying down as well as standing up and with toilet issues (when i needed to go, IT WAS NOW) and intense pain from my tearing and these I found much worse. This was for at least 7-8 weeks. Luckily now I have no incontinence or sexual issues but my OB said with the way I tore, I am lucky to have healed the way I did (perfectly). I could have had big lifelong problems.

I had no itching or breastfeeding issue that was related to the caesar.

I do have a numb patch right around my scar but really I'm not sure what effect that has on me long term :) It's just a tiny numb patch. On my tummy. I don't need to feel it. Actually I am sure what the effect is - nothing.

That is just my personal experience and I understand Megan was saying it was not the same for everyone. I am just being honest in my own experience.

[Knocked_for_six]

Hi I just explaining how I feel about a C section, and yes I have been told I have to have one due to grade 4 Placenta Previa... Im so over the care I have received Ive decided Drs can go jump.... Im staying home not going nowhere! Like I said theres reasons for them, but drs over do them too. I just meant that I find natural birth rewarding, the idea of not delivering naturaly to me is like picking a baby off a shelf....not saying all women need to feel like that everyone has a right an a choice, whats right 4 1 is not necesarly right for another but Its each mothers right not a Drs right.

I am sorry to hear that, as I am yet to personally meet a Doctor of any specialty that is out to harm a patient, they generally have you best interest at heart! Anyway, it is your body, you baby and your choice, I respect that and I wish to luck with your birth, I hope that you are one of the women in which is placenta moves away form the cervix in time to give birth. :)

I will also add that I am also one of the women that find a VB very rewarding :goodvibes: I had a drug free VB with my DS1 & DD. As I am expecting HOM, a c-section was more than likely however I (and my OB) kept and open mind while DH and I thoroughly researched into giving birth to HOM virginally, ultimately I decided given our research that the safest way for our babies to enter the world is by c-section, I would love a VB, I hated my emergency c-section with my second son, but I have to think about my babies first and foremost and what is best for them.

[Mummaholic]

I will also add that I am also one of the women that find a VB very rewarding :goodvibes: I had a drug free VB with my DS1 & DD. As I am expecting HOM, a c-section was more than likely however I (and my OB) kept and open mind while DH and I thoroughly researched into giving birth to HOM virginally, ultimately I decided given our research that the safest way for our babies to enter the world is by c-section, I would love a VB, I hated my emergency c-section with my second son, but I have to think about my babies first and foremost and what is best for them.

That's great that you had a rewarding natural experience, I am so glad.

I think it's good people can share their stories on here as it shows there can be rewarding births no matter what the method, and also difficult ones on both sides.

I have heard emergency caesars can be particulary hard as they tend to do things differently to get to the baby in time, therefore you usually have more pain and longer recoveries than an elective.

[MamaLlama]

I hate to say it but I fear we'll be reading about AntiDrs.

I don't doubt wantvba2c is sincere but I disagaree that these things a re true for most women.

Also: I had a vaginal birth about as uncomplicated a s they come - BUT

getting out of bed was almost impossible without pain

bending over in the shower was painful

hell SITTING DOWN was painful

getting up out of a chair was painful

Maybe women who feel they suffered too much from a caesar don't realise that these things often go with birth, however you do it.

I see no reason bonding or breastfeeding would be affected, and nor do my friends who are midwives in a public hospital and have seen many many births of both kinds.

Infection rate is less than 5%...is that really surprisingly common? I think its surprisingly low given pateints get sent home too soon and are not good at looking after their own post-surgical care.

Saying you have a higher risk of death from c section (except if you have vaginal birth complications) is kind of meaningless - if you have complications you're more likely to die. If you're in that situ they're likely to want to get the baby out. A fair comparison would look at complex vag births WITH complications and c sections with the same complications (septucemia, hemmorage etc). The rates are almost the same.

As one of a family of respected doctors it is incredibly insulting to be told "they just like doing operations". Sorry but as far as I'm concerned if you feel like that then you have no right to ever ask a Dr to do anything for you. Take your chances with nature in every respect and good luck to you. Why should a Dr waste his time with people who have so little respect for their professionalism and expertise?

[AntiDrs]

To me I just cant imagine having my baby handed to me, 4 natural births not all of them were pleasant either but all the hard work an effort is worth it. Ive heard too many cS stories which probably doesn't help. I youtubed a CS after being told I had to have one and it just looked so rushed and clinical and very minimal mother and baby contact. I have heard it is harder to hold your baby for days after....just not my cup of tea. My sister inlaw opted for a CS cause her 1st labour was taking an hour, my 1st 3 were all over 24hrs the 4th being 10mins. Even being in a position needing one terrifies me thats why I personally cant understand why someone would choose to have one when there was no reason, I guess its the same there would be women terrified of a VB I know I was 1st time round lol. Im not doubting mothers that have a CS love their babys any diffrently gawd we all have done the same thing threw pregnancy, thats were the bond starts.....I just cant personaly deal with a CS myself, but thats just me. On a more meloow note cause maybe my opinion has been miss interprited, if we compared birth to renovating... Im the type of person that gets enjoyment from doing my own renovations rather than getting in a profesional.... Others maybe happier to have a profesinal come in....its a matter of choice. Maybe the profesional does a better job? maybe he doesn't? Or maybe its being proud of the work you have done yourself. Thats kinda how I feel about a CS like Mr OB is taking credit for 10mins work to somthing I have dedicated 9 months too.

[Knocked_for_six]

As one of a family of respected doctors it is incredibly insulting to be told "they just like doing operations". Sorry but as far as I'm concerned if you feel like that then you have no right to ever ask a Dr to do anything for you. Take your chances with nature in every respect and good luck to you. Why should a Dr waste his time with people who have so little respect for their professionalism and expertise?

:iagree: :yelclap:

My husband is a surgeon (while not an OB) I find it sad that people can such a hatred and lack of respect for Doctors, to put them all in the same basket :(- My husband chose to be a medical specialist, spent countless years studying (and is still involved in research) to help people, he is the kindest, most sincere, compassionate man I know, he generally cares for and has every one of his patients best interest at heart.

[MamaLlama]

I have heard it is harder to hold your baby for days after....just not my cup of tea.

. Others maybe happier to have a profesinal come in....its a matter of choice. Maybe the profesional does a better job? maybe he doesn't? Or maybe its being proud of the work you have done yourself.

Sorry I think that's nuts in the nicest possible way I can muster for someone I think has just insulted everything my family has dedicated their lives to.

Way to backtrack much? Not your cup of tea is not how you painted it.

And when a professional saves a mother and baby from death yeah I'd say that's a better job, and I'd also say a mother who denied her child that better job didn't have much to be proud of.

I happen to think we are all entitled to choose a caesar for any reason and its insulting to say we would only do that out of terror. But even if we just restrict to those with medical reasons - you're saying women should DIY even at risk of their own and their baby's life??? That boggles my mind.

And you're doing that to your own baby, that boggles it even more.

[Silverbaby]

You know I just don't get this. No one is concerned with how I wipe myself after going to the toilet but are so interested in what I do or don't do with my vagina.

Sorry I know TMI but honestly.

This isn't a form of child abuse ( having a c-section).

So I have to say that these types of threads make me so angry

Silverbaby

[MamaLlama]

You know I just don't get this. No one is concerned with how I wipe myself after going to the toilet but are so interested in what I do or don't do with my vagina.

Sorry I know TMI but honestly.

This isn't a form of child abuse ( having a c-section).

So I have to say that these types of threads make me so angry

Silverbaby

:iagree::iagree: Though I think an even better analogy is - do these busybodies care about what position you and DH were in when you conceived? That clearly has ramifications for bonding with your kids after all! As much as how you give birth does at any rate! :laughing:

[AntiDrs]

Omg you still not getting what I was saying.... personaly I wouldnt opt for a CS "my personal Choice"..... "others have diffrent opinions".....I personally have heard of too many people thinking they are taking the easy way out with a CS ....Were talking about major surgery here girls...if there is no medical reason for it ...why put yourself threw it??? I dont understand???? Over the years it seems CS have become trendy or somthing, I dont know. Anyways yes when theres a reason go for it, just saying VB is my cup of tea if there is no complication. Its a matter of choice, from my research a VB is much safer given the fact that there are no complications of course. the debate of VB v CS is a bit like homebirths you going to have peeps jump up an down thoughs who think its safe thoughs who think its dangerous, it all comes down to personal choice. Everyone does what is best for them, im just saying if there is no medical reason why would someone want the added risks of surgery?

[sandy cheeks]

I dont think it's any ones right to judge or make assumptions about a women choosing a elec cs same can b said for bf v ff, circ v uncirc, vax v unvax and all the others.
Why should the dr not ask? She had a vb before she chose a cs.
At 13 I saw my mum have my brother she was 40 and had probs it was horrid(sorry but it was) my quiet, placid mum turned into a loud, screaming crazy women:yes: it was very traumatic for me I didn't have sex through high school:laughing::yelclap: cos I didn't want that to happen, when I was preg with ds I dadn't want a vb I wanted a cs I went public didn't get a choice :p I had a vb I educated myself b4 hand till thought of it no longer made me ill.
Not everyone wants to vb not all women think their bodies r made for a vb.
Private hosp cater to people who want choice most dont full on push bf where as in a public hosp they push it, just like vb and anti circ is very much the option at a public hosp.

[MamaLlama]

More backtracking antiDrs... sounds like you have a very valid medical reason for one and are the one who is pathologically terrified to the point you will risk your baby.

Now me personally, I don't understand THAT at all.

[Sheer Bliss]

Is there any chance we could let this thread die (or maybe have it closed??) and start this sort of discussion in a new thread??

If you read back to the OP....she was upset about a c-section being PUSHED, SOLD and talked about at every apt with an OB to a woman who had a successful vaginal birth previously. A purely elective c-section being sold as a product as opposed to a life saving operation.

Medical c-sections are brilliant and are VERY necessary to save lives. And everyones interpretation of medical risk is very different, so one persons need to a medical c-section may be different to anothers. But all this talk about c-sec being right or wrong is totally off topic, and probably best in a new thread.

[wantvba2c]

I think the whole point of this thread was for people to be able to shar their opinion. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and we dont always agree with them.

So sometimes we just need to agree to disagree.

Everyone is different and has different pain tolerance etc. So the pain that one person might be able to cope with another might not.

Please also note that in my last post on this thread I never mentioned that "all" doctors or "all" women about anything. I did say most as the things I mention are what I have heard from "Most" women I have spoken to.

I do not disrespect or hate Dr's or Ob's. I never said that either. I think I used the word "many" when I was talking about them. Please be aware that there are way more than "many" Dr's and Ob's around the world. Im sure that the majority are fantastic Dr's and Ob's who genuinly care for and help each and every patient they have. I have relied on Dr's myself when I had an alergic reaction to food and could have died.

Anyway, as I said sometimes we need to just agree to disagree rather than attacking people when they have a difference in opinion.

I do like these threads, but I dont like when people start attacking each other.

[MamaLlama]

But all this talk about c-sec being right or wrong is totally off topic, and probably best in a new thread.

:iagree: Though they are related in that the OP also thought they were "wrong" and saw the light.

I just can't not respond when someone insults everything my whole family has worked their whole lives for, then backtracks.

[AntiDrs]

My point is unless I can find a hospital with educated drs, I feel i'm safer at home, the idiots I have dealt with over the past few weeks cant even get an appointment right, never mind distinguish between a patients name and their address. If they cant understand simple paperwork, tell me to google Placenta previa cause its bull**** then 4 weeks later say i need to be admited incase I have a bleed then ring up the following day an say oh no its not a threatening situation only comin in a few weeks if you feel like it...... sorry but I dont feel to comftable going back there.... would you? Hence why I said unless I find another hospital I'll stay at home. Their stupidty causes me more stress than my condition has, Its not like I have a whole heap of Hospitals to choose from and if it means going back to them i aint going.

[Knocked_for_six]

Is there any chance we could let this thread die (or maybe have it closed??) and start this sort of discussion in a new thread??

If you read back to the OP....she was upset about a c-section being PUSHED, SOLD and talked about at every apt with an OB to a woman who had a successful vaginal birth previously. A purely elective c-section being sold as a product as opposed to a life saving operation.

Medical c-sections are brilliant and are VERY necessary to save lives. And everyones interpretation of medical risk is very different, so one persons need to a medical c-section may be different to anothers. But all this talk about c-sec being right or wrong is totally off topic, and probably best in a new thread.

Your right Tan, we have gotten a little off topic from the OP :o

I am leaving now :shakehands:

[AntiDrs]

MamaLlama I never tried to insult nor backtrack either....I was saying how I personally feel about a Csection for me...I said right from the start it was every persons choice, not a choice I personally would choose if their was no medical reason, Im not saying VB is the only way to go....I just dont understand why someone would choose to go under the knife if there was no probs having a VB. The C Section i you tubed they took the baby out held it up said look at your baby and off to the nurse it went......Maybe after a CS I might be of the same opinion as you who knows, I just personally enjoy the closeness of holding your baby threw the 3rd stage....is that wrong?

[MamaLlama]

AntiDrs I suggest you go back and re-read all your replies. I think you will find you said a lot more than that.

[AntiDrs]

MY original reply was about if OB should push CS, I feel too many doctors push them for their own benefit not for the benefit of mother and baby. There are times when u need a CS but needed or not its a woman's own choice. Yes I am all for VB if there are no complications....but that's whats right for me maybe not you but it is for me. You might hate the thought of a VB but thats your right! I never said if your life or your baby's life is in danger don't dare have a CS like it seems to me that's what you think I am saying. It all comes down to personal opinions, and I guess it would be a boring world if we all thought alike, though it could be peacefull.

[beebs]

I agree DRs are to C Section happy, heavens forbid if their sleep is interrupted or their late for golf! If your so into sleeping and golf " DON'T BE AN OB ", its pretty simple. Sure their are times were they are necessary ( like my case but looks like I'm refusing anyways) any ways that's another story, but in my opinion a natural labor is so rewarding I imagine a CS would be like getting a baby off a shelf at the local shop. Just my opinion every one has a choice in whats right for them but provided its their choice not forced into it for a Drs convinience.

Oh please - My first ob, when someone asks for an elective tells them that they need to find a new ob. He will only do them if medically necessary.

Last night I went into hospy with braxton hicks and a UTI etc and my OB was there even though he wasn't rostered on - for no reason other than cause he thought he would pop his head in to the hopsy before going home after working at his private practise the whole day. Yes - obviously dying for that game of golf.

I'm not saying all obs are like that - but the two that I have personal experience with are both great!

And just because your natural labour was rewarding, doens't mean everyone elses will be. I still have ongoing problems from mine almost 3 years ago and I had to have someone push the pram for me for 4 months. I felt pretty useless I have to say - I couldn't pick up my own child for ages. C/section like getting a baby off a shelf? Well bring it on.

PS - you obviously have no idea how badly things can go with vbs - I wonder why people feel the need to have all these strong opinions about things that they obviously have never, ever experienced.

[MamaLlama]

Oh please - My first ob, when someone asks for an elective tells them that they need to find a new ob. He will only do them if medically necessary.

Last night I went into hospy with braxton hicks and a UTI etc and my OB was there even though he wasn't rostered on - for no reason other than cause he thought he would pop his head in to the hopsy before going home after working at his private practise the whole day. Yes - obviously dying for that game of golf.

I'm not saying all obs are like that - but the two that I have personal experience with are both great!

And just because your natural labour was rewarding, doens't mean everyone elses will be. I still have ongoing problems from mine almost 3 years ago and I had to have someone push the pram for me for 4 months. I felt pretty useless I have to say - I couldn't pick up my own child for ages. C/section like getting a baby off a shelf? Well bring it on.

PS - you obviously have no idea how badly things can go with vbs - I wonder why people feel the need to have all these strong opinions about things that they obviously have never, ever experienced.

:yelclap:

There have been lots of posts on here with women who WANT caesars and can't get them from OBs. Its just crazy to suggest they prioritise their golf schedule over their patients.

My OB gets 5 weekends off a YEAR, and those he makes sure he has colleagues to cover. Every other weekend he is just as likely as not to be at the RWH as home with his own kids. Trust me they work longer hours than anyone on bubhub! If they crave a sleep in when they can get one I certainly don't begrudge it, and I know its NOT because they scheduled an unnecessary c section, its probably because they've been up half the night with some woman who ought to have had one, didn't and is now in serious danger. In my view they don't give them often ENOUGH when asked.

[beebs]

I shouldn't respond in anger I know. But to be honest - I was never a c/section type of gal. Just like I wasn't a vaxxing type of gal, funny how things change when stuff goes wrong.

As for the baby being whipped away after a c/section - My ob is more than happy for me to have the twins with me during recovery. Which is more that I can say for my DS after my vb who was whipped away and resuced and taken to SCN because he was in distress for the whole active labour and the hopsital just forgot I was there - hence the no emergency c/section....hmmmm

PS - just to make a point - a woman a my work recently lost her baby due to placenta prevvia that was not picked up - so she had in naturally - baby died - she almost died. Absolutely tragic. I wouldn't personally mess with PP - as mamalama said - its nuts in the nicest possible way.

[Cicho]

I will start with the disclaimer I am very against elective c-sections for no medical reason. Just my opinion.

With that out the way, here is what makes me so angry. A friend of mine had her 1st baby at 20 years old, granted it was a long and hard labour, but she birthed a baby over 9lbs naturally with no horrible after-effects. This was in a public hospital.

Fast forward 6 years later she is pregnant with her 2nd baby and is now going private. Her very first OB visit, the OB says to her "Oh you know we can book you in for a c-section if you want" WHAT??????? This woman birthed a baby naturally and he is asking to book her in for a c-section???? UGH UGH UGH.

So the seed is planted. Every 2nd visit thereafter the c-section is brought up again by the OB. By the time my friend is around 30 weeks, the reality that she has to get this baby out becomes scary (of course) so she books in the c-section. I am angry at OB's who push it on women when our bodies are obviously designed to push our babies out into the world :banghead:

Last year she had her 3rd baby, same OB, another elective c-section.

I'm so sick of OB's who book them in, because it suits their schedule, it's less of a liability risk for them and their sleep won't get interrupted in the middle of the night. Shame on them.

Why are you so concerned with what others do and the choices they make?
Is the money for these caesar's coming out of your pocket?
Essentially it is no one's business but the mum and her doctor's, so I cannot understand how someone can be so judgemental about others when they don't know the circumstances..... :yes:

[littleboritto]

I agree DRs are to C Section happy, heavens forbid if their sleep is interrupted or their late for golf! If your so into sleeping and golf " DON'T BE AN OB ", its pretty simple. Sure their are times were they are necessary ( like my case but looks like I'm refusing anyways) any ways that's another story, but in my opinion a natural labor is so rewarding I imagine a CS would be like getting a baby off a shelf at the local shop. Just my opinion every one has a choice in whats right for them but provided its their choice not forced into it for a Drs convinience.

After following this thread and trying SO HARD so bite my tounge towards anti-c section mothers, I have to say I've had enough after reading this post.

I am all for people to have their own opinions but honestly, can people PLEASE maybe re-read what they're about to post as I found this post the most insensative and degrading comment that I have read yet.

I cannot believe that someone would stoop so low and attack other women who, reguardless of their own personal reasons to choose a c-section over a Vagional birth, would refer to us giving birth to "a CS would be like getting a baby off a shelf at the local shop". These types of comments is making it very hard for me to come to terms with me having to have a c-section instead of a "natural birth", due to me having a small pelvis, having a spinal fusion, making it almost impossible to get a spinal block or epi. Leaving me with the only option to have a General Anestethic inroder for my baby to SAFELY arrive into this world, reguardless of "how natural" it looks.

I for one am not so up myself to put my childs safety at stake to 'try and have a natural VB' just so I can tell myself 'at least I tried'. I do NOT have to give excuses to others on why I have chosen a c-section in the end after much research and discussion with my OB AND anethesist. I feel I have done bloody good enough carrying my child for 9 months already, so who the f*** cares on how I give birth to my son, me and my boyfriend should only care.

All I want is to hold my bub when I wake up when I come out of recovery to see what a great job I have done so far, and when I do, my birth won't seem so much of a big deal in the end.

I feel sorry you YOUR doctor who has to put up with you being such a selfish b*tch. Fu*king grow up and quit *****ing on 'how hard you will have it' and STOP taking it out on others. Doctors are amazing people no matter what profession they sepcialise in. If you don't like it CHOOSE not to have one and go give birth in a barn for all I care. I hope you will find your natural birth oh so rewarding then at least!

Can someone PLEASE CLOSE or delete this thread as I am over reading what more crap AntiDrs has to say!.

[Fuchsia!]

Hun chuck her on your ignore list :)

Makes life a lot easier for you.

I do find that comment insulting, although you are only referring it to yourself, maybe think how it affects other C/S mums out there who are finding it hard to come to grips with the C/S whether is from an emergency C/S or an elective C/S. That type of comment about getting a baby off the shop shelf does not do anyone any good. It should not have been posted.

I can assure you that it doesn't feel that way and i have had both a empowering VB and an empowering C/S.

A birth is what you make it. I made my C/S a wonderful exprience and it was very empowering, it can be done.

[LuvMy4Babes]

Why are you so concerned with what others do and the choices they make?
Is the money for these caesar's coming out of your pocket?
Essentially it is no one's business but the mum and her doctor's, so I cannot understand how someone can be so judgemental about others when they don't know the circumstances..... :yes:

I guess when you chime in on Page 15 wtihout having read all of the previous posts, you would come to this conclusion :p

[Cicho]

I guess when you chime in on Page 15 wtihout having read all of the previous posts, you would come to this conclusion :p


Chime in LOL

I read the first post, which is what I was responding to.

So, is it really any of your business what others do?

[Lastcenturymum]

Closing this for cleaning.