Mandatory Vaccination for Victorian Health Workers

[PunkyDiva]

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=8315

[JohnC]

This article begins by raising some interesting issues about the immunisation status of health workers and a policy apparently being considered in Victoria.

There has been a fair amount of discussion about this over many years, and clearly balancing workers rights and health considerations is not a simple issue.

We have not yet seen, I believe, even a draft of this policy. An informed debate may happen when we do.

However, this interesting start to the article radically changes direction from the paragraph: "In order to discuss whether vaccinations are effective, indispensable, and of no harm, we need to understand just what a vaccine is, and how it is supposed to work."

From that point on we are treated to a litany of what can only be described as a greatest hits of anti-vax propoganda. The laundry list of claims range from the simply wrong to the outright kooky; anyone who has spent any time looking at fringe anti-vax sites will recognise the rhetoric immediately.

This is a great shame, because the issue about health workers is important and deserves serious discussion.

[~Temet Nosce~]

I only skimmed over tha article so forgive me if I missed something but..
I see this as a good thing really. Both of my parents have worked in the health care industry for 20+ years and I can tell you now they would never see it as having their freedom of choice taken away, it is common sense, when you are working in that sort of enviroment. For protection of both the patients and the health workers.

[beebs]

I only skimmed over tha article so forgive me if I missed something but..
I see this as a good thing really. Both of my parents have worked in the health care industry for 20+ years and I can tell you now they would never see it as having their freedom of choice taken away, it is common sense, when you are working in that sort of enviroment. For protection of both the patients and the health workers.

Yes - I agree. My husband is an RN and has to be fully vaxxed - and a good thing too.

[PunkyDiva]

John, I couldn't find any gov or media releases regarding this, last info is from quite a whiles back so was wondering if the author was just venting and really hoping someone in BH land might have additional links on this.

This would affect me in the future so obviously I am concerned about it.
I don't really wish to be vaccinated myself against disease outside of those I already have wild immunity for but if it's a choice of no occupation then it would have to be done. Although saying this I have been taking on board comments about adults taking responsibility for immunity rather then young babies.

I found this in the wee hours of the morning so can't really comment, as unsure on some of authors claims but will def be following it up.

Don't really wanna hear from/about people who agree with it cause I know from experience very few have really looked/researched the entire picture. People like John are huge exceptions, I knoe he's extremely one sided but many a good word of reason in his well thought out, informative posts.
There's nothing wrong with acceptance that you will follow & comply with health guidelines, just not helpful when I am wanting to make an informed educated factual decision.

It truly does my head in some times trying to find/source all angles of info and both sides quite terrifying even. Just thankful for the internet and unsure how/why my parents made the decision against vaccination nearly 40 years ago. Can't ask them unfortuneately.

I do thank all for taking time to read and reply respectfullly on what is an extremely emotive subject :hugs:

[beebs]

John, I couldn't find any gov or media releases regarding this, last info is from quite a whiles back so was wondering if the author was just venting and really hoping someone in BH land might have additional links on this.

This would affect me in the future so obviously I am concerned about it.
I don't really wish to be vaccinated myself against disease outside of those I already have wild immunity for but if it's a choice of no occupation then it would have to be done. Although saying this I have been taking on board comments about adults taking responsibility for immunity rather then young babies.

I found this in the wee hours of the morning so can't really comment, as unsure on some of authors claims but will def be following it up.

Don't really wanna hear from/about people who agree with it cause I know from experience very few have really looked/researched the entire picture. People like John are huge exceptions, I knoe he's extremely one sided but many a good word of reason in his well thought out, informative posts.
There's nothing wrong with acceptance that you will follow & comply with health guidelines, just not helpful when I am wanting to make an informed educated factual decision.

It truly does my head in some times trying to find/source all angles of info and both sides quite terrifying even. Just thankful for the internet and unsure how/why my parents made the decision against vaccination nearly 40 years ago. Can't ask them unfortuneately.

I do thank all for taking time to read and reply respectfullly on what is an extremely emotive subject :hugs:

My husband until recently was working as a casual in lots of hospys in Sydney - he got a letter in the post saying that unless he could prove his vaxx status then he couldn't work at Canterbury Hospy anymore. So I do know that some hospys have their own policies on vaxxing. Don't know about Victoria though.

[PunkyDiva]

Thanks Beebs, pretty sure those policies cannot be backed up/followed through from a legal sense,can use conscientious objector route, yet it would appear from this article that Vic authorities are going to make it a legal requirement just as they are strongly contemplating forcing parents to vaccinate against certain disease.

[beebs]

Thanks Beebs, pretty sure those policies cannot be backed up/followed through from a legal sense,can use conscientious objector route, yet it would appear from this article that Vic authorities are going to make it a legal requirement just as they are strongly contemplating forcing parents to vaccinate against certain disease.

Ahh - I had never thought of that..thanks.

[JohnC]

Ok. The current NSW policy can be downloaded from here (http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/policies/pd/2007/PD2007_006.html). It was negotiated in consultation with the unions and other stakeholders and has been mandatory for all healthcare workers since January 2008. Staff who refuse or are unable to comply are required, in the first instance, to be reassigned to other duties.

These (http://www.health.vic.gov.au/immunisation/general/guide_hcw) are the Victorian guidelines. Effectively the same as NSW, except they are not yet mandatory for all funded organisations.

The issue appears to be that Victoria is planning to bring its policy into line with that of NSW, and make these guidelines mandatory.

Now AVN, Australia's main anti-vax outfit is running a "campaign" against these policies. The reason the second half of the article (the kooky bits) rang a bell was that they are lifted almost verbatim from the propoganda being put out by AVN.

Note this is primarily about Occupational Health and Safety, as well as patient safety. If healthcare workers have any concerns they should raise them with their professional association or union.

[bigglet]

A bit off topic here but I knew someone who was against vaccinations but was forced to have them when he joined the army so in that sense it was compulsory.

Maybe this is sort of similar?

[~Temet Nosce~]

All workplaces have rules you must abide by, that you agree to before entering that workforce, so if you enter a career that requires you to be compulsory vaccinated, I don't see the issue. It's like remembering to read the fine print first I guess.

[OneNowOneLater]

Personally, i totally agree with mandatory immunisation of health care workers. As nurses (just as an example) you have to be fully vaccinated and prove your immunity levels to your training institutions before you even get allowed to go practice your skills and knowledge on real live patients (rather than the plastic dummy's that we get to play with in the skills labs)

Afterall, patients in hospitals/aged care facilities etc, come in sick.... you dont want them getting even sicker if a nurse or any of the health providing staff has some kind of disease that could be prevented.

[Harriet]

All workplaces have rules you must abide by, that you agree to before entering that workforce, so if you enter a career that requires you to be compulsory vaccinated, I don't see the issue. It's like remembering to read the fine print first I guess.

I have a friend who's been a paramedic in NSW for years. He is non-vax for his ds and on principle for himself. Yet suddenly he is forced to either be vaxed or be re-assigned to desk duties:( Not what he signed up for and I would imagine it will be the same for a lot of healthworkers.

[ck2b]

It has always been mandatory to have certain vaccinations in the areas I have worked and even more if you work with children. As it should be IMO - imagine if you, providing health care, gave a disease to child having chemo or HIV or something???

[~Temet Nosce~]

Even where my dp works (call centre enviroment) it's mandatory for him to get the flu vax every year because offices are very germy places believe it or not.

[missie_mack]

Even where my dp works (call centre enviroment) it's mandatory for him to get the flu vax every year because offices are very germy places believe it or not.

Besides the health industry and military I have never heard of anyone else making vaccination compulsary :confused: I know lots of places offer them to staff but of course thats not compulsary. There was a discussion at my work about introducing Influenza Vaccine shots and they found that there wasn't enough people who suffered from influenza in the company to make it worthwhile. They also found that introducing it could lead to further downtime. Interestingly the ones that were crusading for it were of the belief it would stop people from getting the common cold or 'flu as many people call it :rolleyes: We have over 120 call centre staff employed in our business most doing shiftwork and upon investigation we only found one case of influenza in the past financial year!

[JohnC]

Missie,

I think the issue arises for teachers as well, though in slightly different form.

The measles outbreak in the Gold Coast region seems to have led to a flurry of activity requiring teachers to document their vax status (and this has been mentioned on this forum).

I have no further good information on this situation, however. Anyone?

[SomewhereOverTheRainbow]

I'm a nurse working for NSW Health and have never had a problem with any of the vaccination policies. At the moment it is highly highly recommended that we get the fluvax each year, but it's not compulsory per se.. however if there IS an outbreak of flu and you are unvaxed, the hospital has the right to send you to other areas to work etc. This is for the safety of everyone, both patients and staff.

However it is fairly mandatory to have a complete up to date immunisation record for things like measle, mumps, rubella, whooping cough etc. It's made pretty clear in your first few weeks of uni. I *believe* that if you are a consciencous objector then you may be able to lodge an objection etc and still allowed to practice but I can't understand why as a health professional you would (unless for medical reasons etc..) as it's our job to help people and save lives...not to infect them.

Can you imagine a nurse unimmunised against whopping cough working in kids ward, or a midwive unimmunised against rubella working in antenatal care? :confused:

[prideNJoy]

Can you imagine a nurse unimmunised against whopping cough working in kids ward, or a midwive unimmunised against rubella working in antenatal care? :confused:

The thought does seem pretty crazy, but if they had natural immunity then i guess that wouldn't be an issue?

[OneNowOneLater]

As nurses (or even nursing students) you have to prove your immunity levels before they send you out on placements.

EG, i've got immunity to MMR, and some other stuff, but my immunity for HepB wasnt adequate, so i'm getting my boosters done now - have my second HepB shot on monday afternoon.... :crying: :laughing: I dont like having needles hehe

[Josh]

my dd is a second yr nursing student here in n.s.w and before she started her uni she had to be fully vaxed( she was already but needed some boosters), otherwise she could not start her course, the head nurse of immunisations at uni told her in no uncertain terms that she needed her boosters by a specified time or no course.

[~Temet Nosce~]

Besides the health industry and military I have never heard of anyone else making vaccination compulsary :confused: I know lots of places offer them to staff but of course thats not compulsary. There was a discussion at my work about introducing Influenza Vaccine shots and they found that there wasn't enough people who suffered from influenza in the company to make it worthwhile. They also found that introducing it could lead to further downtime. Interestingly the ones that were crusading for it were of the belief it would stop people from getting the common cold or 'flu as many people call it :rolleyes: We have over 120 call centre staff employed in our business most doing shiftwork and upon investigation we only found one case of influenza in the past financial year!
I just asked my dp and he said it isn't compulsory, but they pay for everyone to have it done and highly recommend it, so my bad.

His work place has alot more than a 100 or so people, there is close to 1000 people working there.

[missie_mack]

Missie,

I think the issue arises for teachers as well, though in slightly different form.

The measles outbreak in the Gold Coast region seems to have led to a flurry of activity requiring teachers to document their vax status (and this has been mentioned on this forum).

I have no further good information on this situation, however. Anyone?

My DH did his GDE nearly 4 years ago now (boy time flies :rolleyes:) and there is currently no requirement for them to show their vax status (at least in Vic or NSW where he has taught) I think this is a new situation arising currently in QLD. My DH has had 3 kids in his school come down with whooping cough in the last couple of months and his titre levels have only been checked at our request with our own GP (as his mother has no recollection on what he has had or been vaxed for :rolleyes: and we cannot find his medical records from childhood) No offer has been made by the school to pay for his vaccination etc should he wish to. Some schools (depending on whom your employed with) offer the influenza shot and in Vic I know they brought a nurse into the school to give them all the shots.

I seen that post about being asked for vax status' and it was by a hubber whose DH works at a school in close proximity to the outbreak area.

[SomewhereOverTheRainbow]

The thought does seem pretty crazy, but if they had natural immunity then i guess that wouldn't be an issue?

Agreed, but they check titre levels for immunity in general, not just 'artificial' immunity. If you have natural immunity from contracting the diseases previously then you usually aren't required to be immunised. I have a natural immunity to chickenpox (had it when I was 13) and didn't need the shot.
I was referring to anyone who is immune to those diseases, through either vaxing or through having previously contracted the disease. :yes:

[prideNJoy]

Agreed, but they check titre levels for immunity in general, not just 'artificial' immunity. If you have natural immunity from contracting the diseases previously then you usually aren't required to be immunised. I have a natural immunity to chickenpox (had it when I was 13) and didn't need the shot.
I was referring to anyone who is immune to those diseases, through either vaxing or through having previously contracted the disease. :yes:

:D My "?" at the end of my statement should have been a "!". I knew all that. :goodvibes:

[PunkyDiva]

It's not mandatory. People who do not wish to comply must sign off on that decision, a full register is kept for emergency access and a personal risk assessment is undertaken.

Dependant on lots of issues such as position held, likelihood of contact, whether there is a shortage of staff in your area of expertise etc etc then a process is started to discuss options. Risk assessments for unvaccinated people are kept under close scrutiny.

Health Authorities are more then aware that any staff member may be a carrier or contract a disease, and that higher levels of disease control is contributable to things such as following strict hospy protocols and better cleanliness of environment and personal ie washing of hands, rinsing sinuses with saline water, stricter controls on contracted hospital cleaning, wearing & use of appropriate safety equipment etc etc.
Due to the nature of antibodies immunity will wane in everybody so there must always be routine screening of all staff anyways.

The legalities surrounding physically forcing anyone to have a vaccination are just too great in regards to freedom of choice and $$$ compensation for it to occur. Not to say it would be an easy road to travel but there are certainly provisions for it in those documents.