Why is circumcision still legal here?

[neostudded]

Just wondering, why is male infant circumcision still legal in Australia?

[SalTheGal]

Which countries have made it illegal? (I have no idea where it is and isn't!!)

[MimiGrace]

Probably because (like with abortion), they don't want it to become a backyard thing if they make it illegal.

There are still enough people who want it done (especially for religious purposes), who would then get a religious person to do it if it became illegal - because for them it needs to be done for their religion to accept them (iykwim? trying not to sound rude here :p).

I don't understand why people circumcise at all. I read all the arguments, and it still seems silly to me. But i would rather see those little boys be circumcised by a skilled professional, rather than someone in a backyard.

[Jakois]

Just wondering, why is male infant circumcision still legal in Australia?

This question may be better answered by someone in the actual decision making area in regards to legalities of it.

I can only guess that as MimiGrace pointed out it may have something to do with avoiding backyard jobs.

[bada]

Probably because (like with abortion), they don't want it to become a backyard thing if they make it illegal.
That's a very good point!

jjj199 I think your point about drugs is different as it hopefully doesn't involve children (even though I think legalising some drugs could solve a lot of problems).

I wish RIC was harder to get done ie ppl had to go through counseling/education prior to getting it done on their newborn.

[Chunkydunks]

I doubt it will ever be made illegal because we're a multicultral (oh I so can't spell today lol) society. There are a few religious groups that still circ and for this reason alone the governement simply can't make it illegal. It would be seen as discrimination towards those religious groups.

[neostudded]

But I think both genders should have equal right's. Females are protected from it, so I can't see why baby boys shouldn't be.

[MimiGrace]

But I think both genders should have equal right's. Females are protected from it, so I can't see why baby boys shouldn't be.
Because the masses can see how female circumcision would be purely for the purpose of restricting their sexuality - whereas male circumcision is seen as 'cleansing'

and politicians are too scared to approach the topic (two dr's tried, and got shot down), because they are there to get votes, not make a difference.

Which means its up to people like you to get a law like that passed :p (we both know you want to)

ETA: yes i am stalking you (accidentally though, i promise)

[~Emmylou~]

That doesn't prevent the government from making drugs illegal (and hence forcing people to make them in their back yards).

Newborn babies aren't the victims of bad drug batches. As far as lawmakers go, people who are already seen as being "expendable" are the casualties of illegal drug operations - the welfare recipient, unemployed loser :( Even though the reality is that it's usually the average suburbanite. Newborn babies are about as far from that demographic as you can get ;)

I think it probably is to do with the fact that culturally we don't seem quite ready yet to take that step - which means that if it is illegal people who really want it done will get it done regardless.

If it's happening, it's better that it be out in the open than done by a backyard man - the same principle that underpins abortion laws.

Sucky as it is.

[GeorgiaAnne]

Aren't most religious circumcisions done by their religious whatever they're calleds (can't think of their names :o) and not Doctors? A gf of mine is jewish and had some jewish bloke come and circumcise her son when he was 7 days old - no anaesthetic or anything!!!!!!!

[GeorgiaAnne]

Sorry, fried brain -the point i'm trying to make is that isn't that backyard enough as it is? This was done in a home, not a hospy or anything.

[confusd]

Sorry, fried brain -the point i'm trying to make is that isn't that backyard enough as it is? This was done in a home, not a hospy or anything.

Arent most of them done at the hospital? (No idea, just all the cases i know of where done there)

ITs the parents choice anyway if you dont want it done to your child, dont do it.
If other parents what it done because of religion (like baptism and christenings) why should they be denied the right?

[GeorgiaAnne]

Arent most of them done at the hospital? (No idea, just all the cases i know of where done there)

ITs the parents choice anyway if you dont want it done to your child, dont do it.
If other parents what it done because of religion (like baptism and christenings) why should they be denied the right?

This one wasn't in a hospy. They just had to have a nurse present for 12 hours afterwards.

As for whether they should be denied the right to circ? That's up for discussion isn't it? And since we're in the anti-circ section I reckon a few ppl may have some reasons why it shouldn't be allowed. My reasons for being anti circ are focussed around atheism.

[bada]

If other parents what it done because of religion (like baptism and christenings) why should they be denied the right?
Umm isn't having a bit of water poured over your head and some bible passages read, a little bit different to having part of your genitalia surgically removed?

[Milliner]

why should they be denied the right?

Why should anyone be denied the right in having a say in keeping his or her own body intact?

A parent forcing their own beliefs on a baby by permanently altering their genitalia is just one reason why it should be illegal.

[confusd]

its skin.
you act as though they actual chop off their genitals :rolleyes:

No one is forcing parents to do it. Its usually done based on religious beliefs.
I dont think people should have a say about what other people do with their children.
Whether its getting their ears pierced or circumcision.

[Milliner]

circumcision removes several critical components of male sexual anatomy

Here (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=152396&highlight=lost)is a list of what is lost

To say it’s just a piece of skin is a little ignorant don’t you think?

Some mothers are forced to do circumcise. Whether it be by their partners, family, in-laws who knows.

No, people shouldn’t worry what parents do to their children should they? After all it’s their child do whatever they like. Some people in this world happen to care, they care enough to want to protect children, ALL children.

[Nowhere]

I wonder the same thing its like its one of the only things not to move with the times, It was very common a number of years ago because people believed it was for cleanliness reasons etc etc yu know all the myths and bul around it

BUT unlike alot of things as more info has come out about it and how its not needed nothing has been done about it

What I find really disturbing is that its used to be common practice to cut of a rotties tail for waht ever reason however its now illegal to do so ( as it should be ) to do so and if you do you get fined, Yet its stil perfectly eceptable to cut of part of a your sons penis, It seems totaly backward to me.

I can totaly understand why its done for medical reasons if its needed to be done dont get me wrong but ELECTIVE surgery for a child Im sory but I wil never be able get my head around why anyone would choose to have there child operated on

But like someone else said if its made ilegal would it stil hapen but as a back yard job, Im sure it would deter most people though but not all

[bada]

its skin.
you act as though they actual chop off their genitals :rolleyes:
In some cases that is exactly what ends up happening.
Circumcision can lead to permanent disfigurement and even death.
Please read the stories in this link to gain a better understanding http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/horror/horror.shtml

[Daviegirl]

circumcision removes several critical components of male sexual anatomy

Here (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=152396&highlight=lost)is a list of what is lost

To say it’s just a piece of skin is a little ignorant don’t you think?

Some mothers are forced to do circumcise. Whether it be by their partners, family, in-laws who knows.

No, people shouldn’t worry what parents do to their children should they? After all it’s their child do whatever they like. :rolleyes: Some people in this world happen to care, they care enough to want to protect children, ALL children.
:iagree:Children are innocent little beings and as a society I think its paramount that we take a healthy interest in how anyone's children are raised. If we didn't, then babies would still be being operated on without anesthetic! Circumcision on babies is a painful and sexually violent practice, let men decide if they want this done, don't take this right away from them as children.

[bundymummy]

Because our spineless politicians are too gutless to do anything about it :rolleyes:

It would take a MAJOR shift in cultural attitudes for it to be made illegal, something I really don't think I will see in my lifetime sadly. :crying:

[naiwen]

Because our spineless politicians are too gutless to do anything about it :rolleyes:

It would take a MAJOR shift in cultural attitudes for it to be made illegal, something I really don't think I will see in my lifetime sadly. :crying:

:iagree: :(

[Fuchsia!]

Because the masses can see how female circumcision would be purely for the purpose of restricting their sexuality - whereas male circumcision is seen as 'cleansing'

and politicians are too scared to approach the topic (two dr's tried, and got shot down), because they are there to get votes, not make a difference.

Which means its up to people like you to get a law like that passed :p (we both know you want to)

ETA: yes i am stalking you (accidentally though, i promise)

It is the same, no different really. There are lots of cultures that remove the clitoral hood and not the clitoris. They are done for the same reasons.


its skin.
you act as though they actual chop off their genitals :rolleyes:



Maybe you should do some research, because its not just a piece of skin, how would you feel if your mother removed your clitoral hood or even your clitoris? Or even your labias? They are all just a piece of skin.

OP- I asked the same thing not long ago. It should be banned.

If that can't be done then it should be made a lot harder to get done.

[bundymummy]

If that can't be done then it should be made a lot harder to get done.

:iagree: I think they need to stop just 'doing them' and offer support and counselling first.

Then once society has adjusted to this, they need to scrap RIC all together. I really don't think making it illegal straight up is the way to go. Unfortunately I think mimigrace hit the nail on the head. We would have way too many backyard jobs and that is definitely not good :no:

In the ideal world, it would be made illegal and our little boys foreskins (and their rights) would be protected. But unfortunately that's not going to happen any time soon :crying:.

When parents justify their decision to circ as their right to do so as a parent, it really p!sses me off. What about the rights of the little boy who will one day grow up and have a mind and an opinion of his own? Are they thinking about their little boys rights? I don't think so :no:

BTW Can't believe I mustered up the nerve to post here :p Been too scared to post in the circ section for quite some time. But hey, I can't stay silent forever!

[neostudded]

I think that it will become illegal, but I am wishing it would happen a lot sooner.

There is not enough information about RIC avalible to the public. I was talking to a person who circumsied her son's, and she did not know what the male glands were and that the foreskin covered the glands to protect them.

She thought you had to seperate the foreskin from the glands to clean under it on a male newborn who is intact.

When I talk to people about the foreskin and circumcision, to often they do not know a thing about the male anotomy. That is really alarming to think that they may circumsied basied on misinformation, and then later find out about the foreskin and regret it :(.

But where can they look for the information when it is so hard to come by?

[demeter]

With regard to female genital mutilation I think that government/people in Australia see male and female mutilation as totally different things because of their religious ties. Modifying male genitalia is common to Christian and Jewish recent history*, whereas female genital mutilation is associated with Islam and groups that are "othered" by mainstream Australian society (by "othered" I mean represented as different/primitive). I believe the double standard on male and female gential mutiliation in Australia is inherently racist.

*This is, of course, not to say that all Christians and all Jews modify their son's genitalia! Nor that all Muslims modify their daughter's genitalia. I'm speaking in broad terms about which practice is associated with which religious group, iykwim.

[forbetoel]

its skin.
you act as though they actual chop off their genitals :rolleyes:

.

Wow. This is pretty much why I am against RIC.:no::(

I don't know why it isn't illegal. It makes me so angry.

[~Emmylou~]

:iagree: I think they need to stop just 'doing them' and offer support and counselling first.



I think you're really onto something there.

There should be compulsory counselling and education first. Too many people are just making this decision because they think it's still the done thing and aren't thinking about it.

Many people who do this don't realise that their child will actually be in the minority amongst their peers either. They still think everyone (or nearly everyone) does it.

I had this discussion with a friend of mine when she found out she was having a second boy - she was shocked to find out what the national average is and said she had no idea when she circed her older son.