sleeping patterns

[aodhan-n-ciara]

hi all, I need some help, advice, info, reassurance. DD (8 weeks) just wont sleep during the day. She will have a feed, then play on her mat for about an hour, then gets grumpy so I put her down. I have to pat her off to sleep. She will then sleep for no more than an hour, wakes up and has a play. This is fine in the morning, but when it gets to the afternoon, she is sooooooo tired, overstimulated and grumpy. She will have a feed at about 5:30pm then will sleep till midnight. wakes for a feed, then off to sleep again for 3-4 hrs. I am not complaining in any way about her night time sleeps, but I am becoming very distressed with how tired she gets during the day. She will just scream because she is so very tired, cant be consoled. DS was a dream baby, got himself into a 4 hourly routine, so this has me all out of sorts, and I have no idea what else to try. She is still wrapped to sleep, so I thought I would try her not wrapped....didnt work.

Any advice from anyone who has/has had a non day settler/sleeper would be fantastic. What else can I try?

[Kade's Mummy]

No advice, just support I'm afraid because I am in a similar situation! Look forward to hearing some replies.

I'm heading into a Mother Baby Unit on the weekend for help with DS's irritability and sleep so will be happy to share anything I learn from there

[aodhan-n-ciara]

Thats great, good luck. I actually just noticed an earlier thread about sleeping patterns, but that was for a newborn. I am sitting here trying to come up with some strategies. Should I be trying a dream feed at night to try and extend the ammount of decent sleep she gets? Or is it too early for that? I only ask that because for the past 2 nights she has slept till midnight or so then fed, slept for 4 hrs, then starts the day routine of not sleeping.....not easy at 4am, especially with a toddler to run around after during the day.

I just dont know what to do.....I guess its true when they say each babe is different. She is certainly different to DS!

[Mrs Little]

You could try feeding her every 3 hours during the day. Start the day at 7am.

feed times:

7
10
1
4
7

Then do a dream feed at about 9.30- 10pm. See how long she sleeps after the dream feed.

I think an hr is the longest that most 8wk olds will stay awake for during the day. But that hour should include the feeding time. Are your doing a feed/wake/sleep cycle.

The cycle should look something like this:

7am feed
7.30-8 wake
8-10 sleep
10 feed
10.30-11 wake
11-1 sleep
1 feed
1.30- 2 wake
2-4 sleep
4 feed
4.30- 5 wake
5-7 sleep
7 feed
(optional wake time from 7.30-8)

then dream feed at 9.30.

This worked for me.

You could also try talking to a tresilian nurse about wake and sleep times and patterns for an 8 wk old baby. There is a tresilian nurse on MSN now, if you have MSN.

Hope i've helped.

Mrs Little & Son.

[Kade's Mummy]

Mrs Little - u r always so helpful on any threads I am involved in!! Would that routine suit Kade too at 14 wks?

[aodhan-n-ciara]

Hi Mrs Little.....I have been trying so hard to get Ciara to be in the sleep/feed/play cycle.....just doesnt seem to be working. She will wake generally 45 mins before a feed is due (3 hrly), feed, play and then sleep. Its just so different for me because DS slotted himself in to that routine by 3 weeks......so I am all of a dither.

I do have MSN....how do I contact the tresilian nurse?

I will give your routine a go tomorrow though....cant hurt to try.

and with a dream feed, do I just go in, sit there without waking her up, and give her the bottle?

thanks

[RachWA]

I am in the same situation with my almost 5 months old. DS also responeded well to feed play sleep within 2 days but obvioulsy have been trying for almost 8 weeks with dd. At the moment she is on her 10mins of cyring before I go in but day after day I am getting no where! Have her on reflux medication but it is really not making a difference. She is also sleeping really well at night (slept through for the last 3) and I should be grateful for this, but the days are sending me mad. She is obvioulsy tired and for this reason not happy to play or self occupy which takes alot of my time away from ds (10 mins up going to re-comort- back soon). She is screaming again but I am beyond putting her on the breast as the only way top settle. (Not sure if I am pushing the levels of controlled comforting!).

Sorry I know you were looking for ideas,I really wish I could help and myself.

Hope we all find the answers we are looking for. I have just read Dr Christopher Green's 'Babies' book who says with the more irriatble baby (mine) it can take a couple of weeks of persisent cc to work.

[aodhan-n-ciara]

I have also been trying to let her cry a little bit before I go in, but it breaks my heart because she is a real crier. She drops her lip, hitches her breath....... Its almost as if she knows that mummy gets sad and will pick her up. but its also very cute.

I am also feeling very guilty about the time I cant spend with DS. And she always seems to do this during important times......DS's lunchtime, etc. My mum assures me that he wont remember, but I still feel as if I am neglecting him.

I am going to try doing the dream feed and see how that goes.....otherwise I guess its just going to be a hard slog until she is old enough to amuse herself, and doesnt need as much sleep.

[RachWA]

Well- I have just given in and fed dd off to sleep after 1 1/2 hours of unsuccessful cc. Transfer from my breast to the cot went good but sometimes even this is difficult. She wakes as soon as I place her in the cot. She will not take the dummy but I am still trying and has not taken to any comforters. My ds had dummy, bear
easy with him.

I also have jsut had a cry to my husband - we have decided that next week he will take ds so I can see my clinic nurse about this. If she is not able to help I will contact Ngala which is a infant sleep clinic in WA. I am also wondering if introducing solids nay make a difference which I am going to on Monday after we have been away for the weekend.

Good luck to everyone else going through this at the moment as there seems to be plenty of us!!!!

[Mrs Little]

The tresilian nurse can be added to your contacts. This is her e-mail: tresilliannurse1@bigpond.com

Go to 'add a contact' and find one by using an e-mail address.

Let me know how you go.

With a dream feed, you need to us a low light and only use whispers...dont feed her lying down..still pick her up...but gently burp her when done and then put straight back to bed....looks like you had a thread about this yesterday. The info. people gave u in that thread was great.

The routine i gave you will work...but you will need to give it time. A habit can be broken in three days but to reform a habit can take up to 3 weeks.

The tresilian nurse will encourage a feed/play/sleep routine and to feed only every 3 hours for a 3 month old. However, if they are waking 45 mins earlier...and you know it's hunger...then feed her!

Some babies need feeding every 2.5 hrs at a young age, you'll just have to add another feeding into the day. They will eventually stretch time between feeds!

By the way...babies have growth spurts! roughly about 3 months and 5 or 6 months. You can normally tell they are having a growth spurt because they will want food sooner...they will wake up from a sleep 45 mins early. If you feed and she takes the whole bottle or takes a full feeding from the breast...then it's hunger...you need to add another feeding in the day or give her more to eat.

Hope this has helped.

For RACHWA....they reccommend starting solids at 6 months...but if bubs is showing growth spurts and the need for solids, then a DR will advise you to start sooner. I did with my son. I started at 5.5 months....i've never looked back.

Can you explain to me RACHWA what method you are following for CC?

Mrs Little & Son.

[Nan]

I agree with Mrs. Little.
We did this exact routine with DD from about 2 weeks and it worked a dream (sorry about the pun!).
I, to was going to ask about the CC routine as we used CC but never let DD go longer than 15 mins before we went in and consoled her.
My thoughts are with you guys! It IS a rough time when you don't get sleep yourself.
Love,
Nan. xx

[babyJames]

I am having the same problem with night time sleeps and afternoon sleeps and in the past it has been restless morning sleeps.. and i thought picking him up and nursing him was the answer.. didn't work....he just got overtired.... and is really big with all the demand feeding i have been giving him... it has been ok for the past 2 months but now i really need some sleep and time during the day to do other tasks....

So just today I am trying out the suggestions of this website.... www.silientnights.org... they have a book by a doc in the print out section that is quite helpful and suggests a similar pattern for sleep and feed.... i try make sure he has 3-4 hours sleep then when he wakes after a decent sleep i feed him until he starts using me as a dummy.....during the day i play with him....as soon as my little one shows a sign of being tired.. i change his nappy (his cue for bedtime) and off to bed he goes..... it worked this morning beautifully.. this afternoon he had a feed, bath then i put him to bed he work every 15-20 mins crying.. after 2 hours i gave him a top up.. and he continued.. then after another hour i changed his nappy and changed his position in his bed (a little on his side)...he is now asleep and has been for over 1 hour... ..i think it is going to take some time to get him to sleep properly during the afternoon... it is only the first day of his schedule.. keep you posted....

at night i am working on sleeping him sleeping right through.... as per the websites suggestions....

i do wrap him up tight.. and he gets upset when it gets undone!!!...but at the moment it is so cold!!

BB - 9 weeks
BM - 29

[Me]

Ok I thought a LOT about this response last night... i woke up at 2am thinking about this thread! I was going to reply last night but just as i got up to hitting the reply button dd woke up!:laughing:
I feel I have the experience to be able to put in my 2 cents worth. I was exactly in this position a few months back. DD(now 5 1/2mths) used to not sleep during the day and I had to constantly carry her and entertain her, both very draining activities. I went to Riverton and it was the best thing I could have done, and I shall now empart some of the helpful info that I learnt there in the hope that it may help others.(WOW that sounds like i'm trying to write an essay!)
Firstly, any sleeping time under an hour is a nap, anything an hour or over is a sleep. Not all babies require the same amount of sleeps and naps. Some more, some less and when having growth spurts most babies will tend to sleep more(this is when the sleep hormones are released).
You need to watch for tired signs and put baby STRAIGHT to bed when you FIRST see tired signs. This could be a rub of the eyes or in the younger babies most probably jerky movements, eg baby will be quiet and still then all of a sudden get a burst of energy and throw around their arms and legs - this means bedtime for most babies.
Catching these early tired signs will make getting your baby to sleep a whole lot easier.
If you are using CC, most sleep clinics will recommend a 3-5min cry time, ie baby cries for 3 mins you go in and pat/shoosh til they are settled and calm again, then leave. for older babies this can be 5 mins... my 5 1/2mth gets about 4mins depending on the cry. Also if your baby is starting to settle in that time period then leave them a little longer, generally going in at that time will only work them up again.
If baby is still crying after 30mins of going in and out then pick baby up, lift them above the breast so they can't smell the milk so much and just stand still and cuddle them til they settle, rubbing your hand over their head or patting their back can help too. Put baby back into cot and keep going for another 30mins... after this 2nd 30mins is up if baby hasn't gone to sleep then get baby up, an hr in bed is also considered a rest(even if there was no sleep involved!)
If baby goes to sleep then the hr is counted from when they go to sleep and if they wake 45mins after going to sleep then you should re-settle them using the same technique. This will help to teach baby to sleep for longer periods and not just to nap, which will in turn help to get out of the over-tired cycle.
Remember that each baby is different and each day is different, so you just need to watch for the tired signs - it can be a very fine line of putting them to bed too early or too late and this will make them going to sleep so much harder. If you are having trouble with identifying what is your babies tired signs then just watch what they are doing before they get to the overtired and crying part and this will help you out. My dd's tired signs used to be extremely subtle, she'd go a little bit quieter and for quite some time i was the only person who could recognise these signs. Just keep in mind that this may be the case and don't feel bad if you miss them, your baby will in time develop a more easily recognisable tired sign... my dd now rubs her eyes and at the first rub of the eyes we put her to bed, generally speaking she is asleep in under 5mins no fuss.
once you are able to identify the signs and get baby to sleep quite easily try making note of when they are feeding and sleeping and this will help you know what to expect each day as a routine.
Sorry for the long post :ecomcity: :ecomcity: but i felt that i could possibly have a few things to say that might help someone out. if anyone has any further questions on what i've written the feel free to PM me.
I am in no way saying i have the magic key, i'm just stating what i've found works for me and a lot of my friends going through the same thing.

[bindiloo]

I was just curious how the ladies in this thread went with the routines they were going to try.
Did they work and are your little ones doing much better since you lasted posted on this thread.
I actually trying the feed/wake/sleep routine as of this morning and the cc and so far so good. she fed at 7am,played till 8am and then got abit grizzly by 7.50 so i put her dummy in and rocked her as i stroked her forehead and her eyes started to close then i put her down.
She stayed awake but quietly for 15min then began to grizzle and i just waited 3min then shooshed her and a bottom pat till she settled then left again. I did this for half an hour then after 30min i turned her over to the other side and she went straight to sleep and hasnt woken yet.

:( ooops,i coughed and she's woken.:banghead: :banghead: