Chucking and screaming all day is not much fun!

[ejksmum]

Hi everyone,

Hoping someone can help answer my question. My 10 week old girl has reflux/colic and was prescribed .5ml Zantac twice daily 3 weeks ago when she weighed about 3.75kg. We were told it would work straight away and when it didn't (after just 2 days) we stopped it. 5 days ago we started her back on it (after finding out that it can take up to 2 weeks to work properly) and as yet not much of an improvement. After reading comments about the dose needing to be weight based, I'm wondering if she is on too small an amount. The paed is on hols (so is the doc) and so can anyone answer whether they think the dose is too little - she now weighs about 4.75kgs. Help!! as we're really hoping this works and we don't have to change meds again. She's also now on Neocate formula after S26, Karicare AR and HA AR, and goats milk formulas not working. Oh and we also give Infacol for the wind. Oh and her poos were regular (daily but green) up until Thursday and she now hasn't been since - could this be 'cos of the Zantac.

She's a gorgeous little chucker and screamer despite all the probs. Oh and she is now wearing a Pavlik harness because the paed diagnosed her as having developmental hip dysplasia so that doesn't help the reflux/colic probs as she can't kick her legs half as much.:baby:

[mum of 3]

dont know anything about zantac but both my grls have reflux and i add karicare food and formula thickner to their bottles and it worked a dream

[Nowhere]

HUGS reflux sucks its terible hun im so sory your dealing with this

Ok zantac yes its very weight sensertive, the dose sound low yes but needs to be checked by a Dr to get the right dose KWIM maybe the pharmasist can help you with that.

Often zantac doenst work with reflux bubs and they sometimes need losec or zoton it works difernt to Zantac as it stops the acid preduction, But it can take about 2 weeks to work so not help now I know

have you tried Mylanta for when she is sceaming her head of unlike other meds it nutralises the acid then and there so it wont burn but unfortunately it is short acting but may be enough to calm her down KWIM

How much is she actualy pukeing cause non of the reflux meds will help that at all, There is motility meds that are to speed the gastric emptying and they can reduce the vomiting but not always

How long has she been on neocate for it can take a while to strat working as you need to give her insides time to settle down from the inflamation from the dairy and soy and goat formular KWIM

Are you keepping her up right after feeds etc or all the time if you can

HUGS

[Lil07]

Oh your poor little bubba. It's tough when they're in so much pain. It does get easier I promise. she might always be a spewy bub but the pain eases for them.

PLEASE seek medical advice before changing your dosage, but, my Ella was diagnosed at around 8 weeks at about 4.4kg and our Paed prescribed her 2ml twice daily. It took around a fortnight to kick in.

Unless of course, you're happy with your current Paed, maybe you could try and get in to see another one. I'd be questioning why your current Pead told you you'd see results immediately :confused: It's pure hell waiting to get in to see a GP/Paed when you have such an immediate issue.




have you tried Mylanta for when she is sceaming her head of unlike other meds it nutralises the acid then and there so it wont burn but unfortunately it is short acting but may be enough to calm her down KWIM

We used Mylanta for the first few months and although it wasn't a lasting remedy, it did help short term and allowed us to get through feeds much easier :thumbsup:

Good luck!

[reAllytee]

dont know anything about zantac but both my grls have reflux and i add karicare food and formula thickner to their bottles and it worked a dream

:no:

Please dont use a thickener because for starters if you are already having wind problems this will only increase it but the main issue here is the fact your lo is on Neocate !

Neocate is a hydrolised formula that means all the protiens are broken down so your lo cant react to them .... The thickeners either have dairy &/or soy still in them which will see your lo having major issues again !

The green poo isnt necesarily an issue at this point as her gut may still be clearing out the gunk & healing itself iykwim. You really do need to give it time to see how things go.

Zantac can be a God send but sometimes as Miki's mum said babies need Losec instead as it works differently or both tag teamed to help.

Mylanta can really help get feeds in & keep bubs calmer during that time but yep isnt a long term fix iykwim.

Hope you are able to see someone soon :hugs:

[ejksmum]

:sleeping:

Thanks for the replies. Went to the hospital today for a physio check with the hip and saw a paed as well about the Zantac etc. Suggested to stick with the same dose until my regular paed returns from hols but still feeling desperate and thinking the dose is too low (she now weighs 5kgs) after an horrendous 3 days with almost no sleep for all 3 of us, so tomorrow will visit the chemist and medical centre to see what they think as well.

Local doc did prescribe Gaviscon before the Zantac but she hated the taste and it didn't do much. Will get some Mylanta to see if that helps as well.

She's screaming right now after we've been out since 8am - she's cat napped all day and we've been home since 5pm and she's still awake!!! Crikeys the poor thing needs some decent sleep. (and so do we!!)

It sure does help to know that others are in the same boat (don't mean that in a bad way 'cos wouldn't wish this on anyone) and that one day we will find the right mix to help our little girl.

We do keep her upright after feeds - doesn't always help as sometimes she can still chuck/posset 1-2 hours after being fed. The Zantac has helped a little with the vomiting (I think) but the pain still seems to be there so will definitely give it longer.

Most feeds she just oozes small amounts constantly (enough to change clothes/bibs etc) and every so often will do a really big chuck that makes her cry (small amounts and she's still smiling at the same time).

Have only been giving her the Neocate for 1 week also so will persist with that - her volumes have increased.

Sorry if this is all jumbled but typing as I think of stuff.

Thank you Miki's mum as you seem to know what's what but only 'cos you've been through so much - lots of hugs and kisses for you from us 3.

It was a chemist who said the Zantac would work straight away. Hmmmmmmmmmmm!

Local paed is fantastic but why do they all take hols at the same time - should be a law against it!!

Poos have been green and sloppy from day 1. One day last week it did start to look like peanut butter but then straight back to the green goblin. Zantac seems to be giving her more wind - smelly stuff too!!

Thanks again for replies - it really does help to know other mums can advise (and even just to type away and air the situation helps too).

:flowerz:

[Lil07]

Oh hon, I so know what you're going through :hugs:

Have you elevated your bub's bed? Just roll up a towel and pop it under the mattress at the top of the cot. It'll help if your bub's head is higher than her tummy. Maybe your poor little darling will get a bit of sleep. Then Mummy and Daddy might be able to recharge too. :fingerscrossed:

My bub can still vommy up to three hours after a feed so don't worry too much about the mess. Just concentrate on trying to get that awful pain under control.

I know it's tough when you're sleep deprived to think straight. Unfortunately it does take time though. The Mylanta should make feeding easier. Try and stick with it for another few days.

Good luck :hugs:

[Nowhere]

Sory to here things are no better it totaly sucks reflux is nasty

thats great that she has increased ehr feeds amount since on neocate

I know what you mean about the still pukeing upright, The whole gravity thing didnt help with miki in that regard just reduced the amount that went into her airways


MMMM the time it takes for Zantac to work, well its a H2 blocker so it haults the acid producation some say 24 to 48 hours to start working in the fact that it haults it in that time HOWEVER what they dont take into acount is that the insides are already burnt and sore so any amount of reflux will still hurt KWIM

Losec takes longer around 1 to 2 weeks to stop the acid production but again the actualy burning has to deal as well

Antacids can bring quick releif however its not a long term thing, and yer alot of bubs dont like the taste


As for the actual vomit NO reflux med will stop that, domperadone can help with the vomiting my eptying the tummy quicker but thats it KWIM, Zofran works in the part of the brain that causes vomiting, but isnt a cure all and its SO hard to get, Maxalon yer can help but has side efects and they dont like to use it if not really needed, the other one is Erythramisn or however you spel it, its a antibiotic and the side efects are speeding up the motility but it wont work long term as the body gets used to it

[reAllytee]

Puking upright .... Tis so much fun isnt it ! NOT ! Especially when you dont expect it hours after a feed !

Good to hear about the Neocate & hopefully you should strt reaping it 'working' iykwim soon & see more of the peanut butter consistancy ... It may still be green at times because this can often happen with bubs on Neocate but the consistancy should change iykwim.

The Zantac can often cause the feeds to go through her system quicker which is often why their poo is green.

Try & pop her over your lap when you can to help with the wind or bicycle her legs .... Hard when they may spew but getting the wind moving will help her discomfort & may also help with the reflux cause this can be the case when the bowel isnt working properly !

[mim1]

:hugs: I remember those days.

I noticed you said you were using infacol - stop it. It made my ds's reflux so much worse and I know it does for other bubs too. If you are using thickener then bubs appears a bit constipated then you back off on the amount of thickener - thickener is quite tricky to get right - I know it took my SIL weeks to work out the right dose for my neice (she was a chucker, my ds had silent reflux). Be warned that constipation will make reflux worse.

Try some mylanta for a few days, no recollection of the dose though - that helped us get through the roughest patches. Keep going with the zantac - it worked really well for my ds.

Zantac (or zoton, or losec) will help ease the pain of reflux, but it will not stop the chucking (that's where thickener can help). It is not a cure and there will still be bad days when break through symptoms occur. BUT, the frequency of screaming or at least the duration of it should ease off quite a bit.

It is hard. We've been there. I understand. It does really get better with time, you will get to enjoy times with bub instead of dreading the screaming. You will get some sleep, you will stop running to the doctor/chemist/etc. :hugs:

[mum of 3]

the karicare thickner has NO lactose or soy in it and have found it to help tremendously

[reAllytee]

the karicare thickner has NO lactose or soy in it and have found it to help tremendously

Yes it does.

It is not stated on the label which is where the problem lies but it certainly does have ingredients which are not to be used for a child who is on prescription formula due to having issues with dairy & soy.

[CrystalMumOfTwo]

Hi my son will be 10wks monday and has been on Losec 1/2 tab for two days now and I took him of Karricare AR due to it giving him a belly ache and changed him to Bellamys Organic Formula and have seen a great inprovement in his crying and not drinking the bottle, we also had him on infacol drops but since changeing to the organic formula have had no need for them as he brings them up nicely now!!
HTH
He still chucks but doesn't get so distressed about it all :) good luck

[Nowhere]

Yes it does.

It is not stated on the label which is where the problem lies but it certainly does have ingredients which are not to be used for a child who is on prescription formula due to having issues with dairy & soy.

Have to agree with ally on this one, its has a derivertive of soy in it, these are the sneacky soy protiens that get in under a difernt name however its stil just as nasty as the stuff called soy

[mum of 3]

over the weekend i rang nutricare/karicare and also emailed them just to dobble check what i already knew their formula thickner contains no lactose or soy in any way

[reAllytee]

over the weekend i rang nutricare/karicare and also emailed them just to dobble check what i already knew their formula thickner contains no lactose or soy in any way

Interesting cause my reply a few months ago now advised it did have certain lingering proteins etc in the Karicare Thickener ...

The Nutricia one is ok but thats completely different & hard to get hold of.

[Nowhere]

Not meaning to argue but as the mum of a little girl with servere Gi issues that has suffered from being given the wrong feeds and thickeners in the past I feel the need to out line this, please dont take it the wrong way Im glad your little one is ok on karicare thickener but I would hate for a mum with a child with a servere intolerance or alergy to read this thread and give it to there child and have terible results KWIM

This is the info about the Karicare thinkener I have bolded a very important part



Karicare Food Thickener
* Tasteless & Odourless * For infants & adults
Instantly thickens : Breast milk, Infants formula, Liquids & foods.

INFANTS
To assist infants with regurgitation problems, Karicare Food Thickener
can be used safely and effectively for thickening infants feeds.
Thickened feeds may reduce regugitation.

FOR BREAST FED INFANTS:
Karicare Food Thickener can be mixed with a small amount of cool
boiled water or expressed breast milk and fed as a gel before, during
or directly after the breast feed. Alternatively it can be mixed with
expressed breast milk to thicken the feed.

FOR BOTTLED FED INFANTS:
Karicare Food Thickener can be used to thicken standard infant
formula, or special formulas. If a baby on standard formula requires a
thickened feed, Karicare AR formula, which already contains thickener,
is recommended.
Karicare Food Thickener is not recommended for premature infants.
For infants on special formulas, check with your health care professional
before using Karicare Food Thickener.

Ingredients: Maltodextrin, Starch (from Maize), Carob, Bean Gum.

and here is a list of Soy derivertives the sneaky soy bits that get buy under false pretenses

List of Soy Derivatives:


Gum arabic (not soy, but some can react)
Bulking agent
Carob (not soy, but some react)
Emulsifier
Guar gum (not soy, but some can react)
Hydrolyzed vegetable protein (HVP)
Lecithin* (not considered an allergen in most as it's soy protein free)
Miso
MSG (Monosodium glutamate) !
Protein
Protein extender
Soy Flour
Soy nuts
Soy panthenol
Soy protein
Soy protein isolate or concentrate
Soy sauce
Soybean
Soybean oil (not considered an allergen in most as it's soy protein free)
Stabilizer
Starch
Textured vegetable protein (TVP)
Thickener
Tofu
Vegetable broth
Vegetable gum
Vegetable starch

I have made in red the bits that are in reference to this, The reason that kids on speical formulas are not recomended by nutricia to use this is because they can not garentee that is it Soy dairy protein free, If it was it would be listed with the specialy Nutricia range on the clinical care site but it is not, This is made with the other karicare products that are non medical foods KWIM

Plus that fact is contains 2 soy derivertives yes one not being directly soy but it is a well know algerin for people alergic and intolerant to soy and starch being a soy derivertive KWIM


I am not saying you are wrong, Im sure it is fine for some children that are mildly MSPI but it is unsafe to say that it is safe for all KWIM

When recomending proucts to children with alergies and intolerance we need to be mind full that we have the FULL facts and know that it wil be safe KWIM

[ManekiNeko]

I hope evrything is going well with your bub. I know it's a really diffcult time but I hope all is sorted about hte zantac now. When I had DD she would scream from 5pm to 10pm almost non stop and I know it sounds silly in hindsight but DP and I didn't know what was wrong for the first few weeks of her life. We figured babies cry but we didn't relaise that wasn't normal. I was in tears constantly not coping with a newborn almost so a peri natal nusre wanted to admit me to the peri natal psych ward sown the road. When someone finally pointd out it was reflux (local gp) he prescribed 2 ml 2x daily. After a few days it wasn't working and I was even more upset like you said you were and I felt like there was no light at hte end of the tunel. Then someone laso told me the 2 weeks and it did start working then. A couple of months later it got worse again and the doctor uped her dose to 2.5 ml 2x daily and it really improved her. However it's a really fine line as to what is too little and too much so I hope your paedatrician is back and able to give you some advice. Also :hugs::hugs::hugs:because I rmember how I felt at that time you poor thing.