Elective Caesarean.

[pregasaurus]

We had our ultrasound yesterday, which showed the baby has a big head. It's still small enough to fit through my pelvis, but I'm a bit daunted by the thought of being ripped in two. I've already given birth vaginally twice, both very very long, hard labours that needed medical intervention. I figure I'm going to be hooked up to an oxytocin drip with an epidural anyway (like the last 2 times), so I may as well keep my private bits intact. I'd much prefer 10 stitches across my abdomen that 10 stitches in my vagina from a huge episiotomy.

Am I being selfish? I just don't know that physically or mentally I can go through it all again.

[MummyLovesJaykob]

I had an elective c sec & I say do what you want to do, as long as your bub gets here healthy .... its a personal decision!
Theres alot in the media about this but i think the option of elective c sec should be left in place because its no-ones decision except the person having the baby !!!!!!!!!!!!! good luck with whatever decision you make ;)

[Chickadee]

You're not being at all selfish. However you choose to deliver your baby is YOUR choice and only yours, and you need to do what you think is best for you and bub.

Keep it in perspective - the few hours (or many hours!) of a babies birth is nothing compared to the years and years of love, caring, worrying, and joy that you will share together.

[ThomasMum]

I am for one totally agree with MummyLovesJaykob! Every words of it. Don't worry about what others/media thinks/said, what best for you and most importantly as long as bub gets here healthy, 'tis all that matter!

Good luck and all the best :D

[madvoice]

I think its a personal choice. Do what you think is best for both you and your baby. Media bedamned. My c-secion wasn't exactly elective (well it was but I decided to do it because I was so uncomfortable and my blood pressure was a bit high and I'd also had enough of being pregnant). To fill you in, I only had one stitch. Granted it was a continuous stitch but the scar has healed well. I had the option of getting staples but I react to the metal and I find that staple scars don't heal anywhere near as well.

[willsmum]

I've had 2 cs. I was up & out of bed having a shower the next morning. And even though they tell you not to drive for 6 weeks, I drove the day after I left hospital bith times. I also only had 1 continuous stitch both times.

DO whatever works for you - ignore everyone else.

[Lallas' Mum]

Hi pregasaurus,

What is selfish about looking after not only yourself but your unborn child.
I gave birth vaginally to a 4.77kg baby. Short story - he got stuck, I tore badly, lots of stitches, blood transfusion due to blood loss and bub and I got urinary tract infections. Bub number two was going to be larger again (as ultrasounds showed) He was - 5.01kgs. We elected to have a caesarean. Bub delivered safely (no risk of nerve damage from getting stuck) and I avoided blood transfusion and infection.

My GP told me when I was debating over what to do that if it came down to the health of the baby all babies would be delivered by c/s. C/S are hardest on the mother. So don't think your being selfish. You are actually sacrificing a lot to have a c/s.

If you're interested in the longer stories just send me a PM or an email.
I can give you more details on what each birth was like.
Take care

[WeThree]

hi pregasouras, i think the term 'elective ceasar' is used far too broadly, when i think of an elective ceasar, i think of someone doing it for no other reason than they just didnt want to give birth, even though they are perfectly able to do so, why is it that when there is a possible or very real risk to a mother and/or her child it is still called 'elective'!? your previous experiences with birth have traumatised you, and rightly so, and you should not feel bad about making a decision which is in the best interest of you and your baby, we live in the 21st century, and although i am a huge advocate of vaginal births, i also strongly believe that a woman should be able to access services that make her feel safe and comftable if she feels she needs it, and if the safest way for a baby to come is by ceasar, then so be it. good luck and dont feel guilty, once that baby is out you will be so wrapped you wont care how it got here :)

[pregasaurus]

Thanks everyone.
I think my issue with it is that I COULD give birth vaginally. I just know it will be very long and traumatic. I'm basically saying I want a caesarean because I don't want to go through it all again. Between my two kids I've been in hard labour for 52 hours, which in my book is long enough to have given birth to 5 babies! I feel like I'm cheating this baby out of a natural delivery because of the other two. If this was my first child I wouldn't even contemplate an elective caesear.
But the thought of doing that to my body again, as realistically I will probably be going for 14-20 hours, end up with an epidural and oxy drip and possibly even forceps again, just makes me cringe. I won't enjoy the experience at all, and I'll come out the end if it torn, bruised, exhausted and in pain.

To put it simply, there is no reason I can't deliver vaginally, there is little risk to baby if I deliver vaginally, I'm only doing it because I don't like the thought of trying to deliver naturally again. PLEASE, I want peoples honest opinion if I sound like a selfish cow, I won't be offended, I just want to know.

[BJelly]

My two cents ... You have a right to have the birth you want. (As you well know) the birth a child is a very special time - a time of excitement and anxiety. It's no good if you spend the rest of your pregnancy cringing everytime you think of this special day - it's no good for you or the baby if you are stressing about having a vaginal birth. You have very real fears ... they are very valid.

I think a lot of the trauma women can feel after birth is because they were disempowered in some way. You don't need to feel like you are cheating yourself or your child by choosing to have a caesarian. I've had a bad tear and it took me months to heal ... I don't know how I'd cope with two young children and an infant to look after if the same thing happened again.

Don't let anyone try to tell you that a caesarian is taking the easy option ... it's not like there's a zipper there - it's abdominal surgery for crying out loud ... but at least you can prepare for that and deal with it in advance - With regard to a vaginal birth, it's dealing with the unkown that makes it so scarey.

Birth is not just a physical event, your emotions play a big part in labour. Fear can interfere with the hormones that help us labour. If you've been injured before, I understand why you wouldn't want to press your luck when you know the baby has a big head.

You have a right to have the birth you want ... the birth that feels best for you and bub ... after all it is your body, it's only natural you want to stay as healthy as possible - your not being selfish at all.

[monique]

I agree! There is nothing easy about a caesarean...while it's being done it feels like someone doing the washing up in your tummy and then it takes days before you can even stand up straight, so don't feel like you're taking the easy way out!

But if you feel that giving birth to your heffalump vaginally would be too traumatic for you, it probably won't be a walk in the park for your baby either. Nobody can tell you what to do...you have to make that decision yourself, so you should choose what you really feel will be best for both of you.

[Lallas' Mum]

To put it simply, there is no reason I can't deliver vaginally, there is little risk to baby if I deliver vaginally, I'm only doing it because I don't like the thought of trying to deliver naturally again. PLEASE, I want peoples honest opinion if I sound like a selfish cow, I won't be offended, I just want to know.

I'll put a question to you. Who is the most important person in your life?
WRONG!!!!
It's you!! If you can't look after yourself physically and emotionally then you can only ever offer a part of yourself and never all of yourself to someone.
You need to do what is best for you. Don't worry about cheating your baby. What would feel better A) being grabbed around the head with metal prongs and yanked out of a tight constrictive space that you've been squeezing your way along for the past 20 odd hours or B) being gently eased out of a cosy womb by soft yet secure hands. Rude shock either way but I know how I'd prefer to come into the world.

As I mentioned in my last post I've had both a VB and a C/S. I prefer the recovery of the natural birth (blood transfusion, stitches and all) as it is much quicker. The first few days are much the same but it is the following few weeks that make the difference. But a C/S is much easier to deliver by. You lay there holding hubby's hand chatting casually and within minutes your baby cries for the first time. Without even breaking a sweat.

Another few points - hubby doesn't have to pace the floor like last time;
You know exactly what day and time so it is much easier to arrange baby sitters for your other kids.
You have to live in your body for the rest of your life. Why put more undue pressure on your body when you don't have to?

[Chickadee]

I feel like I'm cheating this baby out of a natural delivery because of the other two.

No offense, but that's just silly! Bub doesn't care how he/she comes out. I was a c-section baby (breech), my older brothers were VB. I remember as a child seeing my mum's huge scar on her tummy - the big vertical ones they used to do. And sure I felt a bit bad that I'd done that to her, but it only took a hug and reassurance from her to set me right.

[pregasaurus]

Thank you so much everyone. I'm having a HUGE dose off the ever-present 'motherly guilts'. There's such a push (no pun intended) in society to be totally self-sacrificing, no matter what, when you're a mother. I feel like I should be standing up in the face of adversity and proclaiming loudly; 'No amount of agony or stitches will stop me bringing this child into the world the way nature intended! Pain and suffering is the least I can do for my offspring! It's my DUTY to do everything within my power to not have a caesarean!'. But instead I fell like I'm just throwing up my hands and saying 'Oh, stuff it. Just cut the kid out.'

I'm also scared of the 'raised eyebrow' brigade. I'm kind of even hoping the baby's breech so I can say 'oh well, didn't have a choice'. Why as mothers do we feel we have to justify everything to the enth degree? Why can't I feel ok saying 'Been there, done that, not for me'?

So, thankyou everyone. I was truly expecting at least ONE 'Oh, you selfish heathen' response! :rolleyes:

[Supermum]

Dear Pregasaurus

I am one of those women whose bodies were built for birthin'. Both of my vaginal labours were 3 hours, disgusting pain ... but only 3 hours each and both babies came out with a minimum of fuss.

I planned for natural birth but if things had gone awry felt safe in the knowledge that their were alternatives. Gas ... peth ... epi ... caesar!

Who cares how they come out ... vagina or sunroof. All that matters is the mental and physical health of mum and that of your baby. If you are stressed about delivering naturally due to whatever reason (who even needs a reason and who really has the right to judge?) ... then go the caesar I say.

I am 36 years old and a number of my friends were delivered by caesar. Not one of them is traumatised or feels ripped off by coming out the top. In fact, each time the topic is discussed it is mentioned only in passing ...

There's enough guilt imposed on mothers ... don't let the method of the delivery be another one for you!

Be gentle on yourself. ;)

[pregasaurus]

Who cares how they come out ... vagina or sunroof.

Hmm... I like the sound of that!

[Kat]

Hi,
I personally am not a fan of the ceasarian (with the exception of the life-saving aspects it can have). Just to let you know my perspective.

However everyone has a right to choose what they do with their body and heaven forbid I'm the last person to give 'how to' advise when it comes to labour coz mine went all pear shaped..

But the caution I do seriously want to say is that overall, using all powers of generalisation here, CS birth is more challenging to recover from! You are flat on your back for around 24 hours (though often less depending on your ob / nurses / stamina!) and then you are truly very sore, not to mention unalbe to stretch and lift for at least 4 weeks!

Having said that, I would also add, if you do choose a CS - then some of the really excellent suggestions I have seen here in other threads I would think are worthwhile, such as requesting that you are involved (as much as you want to be), your partner is involved (as much as he wants to be, cutting cord etc) and that you are able to have the birth experience that you prefer as much as possible. I dont know you. Maybe you don't care if the first you see of your child is in recovery 1 hour after they are born and that is their first chance to meet you and suckle and there is no skin to skin contact and you are drugged out of your mind. (this isn't neccessarily ALL CS's but it was certainly what happened in mine) - I did care and felt totally ripped off not only by the physical challenges but the unneccessary separations (APGAR 9 & 10 - no reason to keep her from me) & complete lack of inclusion of me in the proceedings.

So its not all in my head that the CS was horrible in this case. I do believe that a 'great' CS is certainly better than a 'horror' vaginal birth. My advice is that if you do choose a CS, do everything in your power to make it 'great' because physically it will be taxing, especially afterwards!

I don't want to put you off, that wsn't my intention. I hope that this post has come across in the friendly, helpful way I wanted it to. If not, please ignore!

regards Kat

[Lallas' Mum]

Hi pregasaraus (again),

Kat had a good point about recovery. It is a lot harder. Having had both a VB and a C/S I can tell you that the recovery time for a C/S sucks!! I had loads of stitches and a blood transfusion after my VB but within about three days I wasn't all that restricted in what I could do. With the C/S it was down right frustrating with how little I could do and for how long and that was after a very successful C/S. I had no complications and left hospital after only two days but it took my body a lot longer to recover (it still is - though I'm no longer restricted just tender). I still think it beats risking a long complicated labour and as long as you have plenty of support for when you are at home all will be fine.

[pregasaurus]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate any feedback, even if it is outlining how sore I'll be afterwards!

Kat, I belong to the Australian Breastfeeding Association, and at the moment I'm very involved with the BFHI (Breast Feeding Hospital Initiative). This is a set of guidelines designed by the World health Organisation to have the best outcome for mother and baby, and one of those is that whether the birth is ceasarean or vaginal, mother and baby are to have at least 1 hour skin to skin contact uninterrupted (as most checks can be done while baby is lying on Mum). The hospital I'll have my ceasar at is trying to get BFHI accreditation at the moment, and to get this they need to have minimum 75% ceasarean births with post hour skin to skin, so I'm pretty sure they'll be very compliant with that request.

I'll only be having an epidural, so hopefully ( :o ) I won't be too drugged out. Although I was pretty out of it with the first 2 due to total exhaustion.

As I said, thankyou very much much for any feedback. I want to know all the cons as well as the pros! :)

[Kat]

Hi Pregasaurus
Glad you're in a good situation re skin to skin contact with bub. I agree with Lallas's Mum in that the support you have when out of hospital makes all the difference with a CS recovery.

As for drugged, the epidural makes you pretty darn out to it. Also they usually routinely do an injection of morphine into the epi near the end - this also makes you doped up. Its worth discussing the ins and outs with your ob.

Also 'birthrites' organisation have a really really great booklet about cs birth - it explain the surgery much better than any explaination I got either before, after or during and if you're planning your CS I'd recommend it as part of your planning a great delivery of your bub.

good luck
Kat

[pregasaurus]

Well. That's put a spanner in the works. The doctor has refused to give me a ceasarean. He said they don't do major surgery on women just because they ask for it, that there has to be a really good medical reason. I pointed out my previous labour history. I explained that I would be in labour with this baby for 14-20 hours, and then probably need an episiotomy to get the head out. He reviewed the reports and said that my pelvis was ample size to get the head through, so there was no problem. I thought 'I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT MY BLOODY PELVIS, I'M WORRIED ABOUT MY PERINIUM BEING RIPPED/CUT IN HALF!!'

How dare the doctors make that sort of descision for me? How dare they demand that I endure all that? Why is it their descision to make anyway? Surely this is my body and my baby, and I can refuse to put myself through that sheer hell again!? I can't believe what they're going to force me to go through. It's not like I have no idea what I'm doing, I've already pushed 2 babies into this world. And I'm not asking for a ceasarean because I'm too lazy to go through with it, I'm asking because it's BRUTAL and DISTRESSING and CRUEL what happens when I give birth. Even the midwives who attended my last birth (who have over 40 years experience between them) agreed that I had (and I quote) 'a really rough time of it' and that my births are 'not very good'.

I'm so angry I could spit right now..... :mad:

[Chickadee]

That's a bit of a rude shock! Hmmm, I can see both sides of this one though, I mean I can sort of understand about them not wanting to do major surgery... although what about all the body sculpting that goes on with new breast etc?!

What about phoning around to a different doctor? Or, just as a thought, if you're absolutely stuck with trying for a VB could you contact any of the midwives or the hospital from your first births and see if they have real practical solutions for improving your labour? I don't know much about it (I realise now how little I knew going into Chloe's birth! :o ) but how effective are things like perineal massage, really?

[pregasaurus]

Yeah, I did all that with the last one(pulled out all stops, hyponotherapy, aromatherapy, homeopathy, massage, positioning, positive affirmations, perineal massage, deep breathing). Still turned into a nightmare.

As you said, if I went in and said 'I want big boobs' it would be 'Sure! Not a problem! How's next Thursday?'. But go in and say 'I want my perinium to stay intact' and it's 'Nope. Sorry. Can't help you there.' :mad:

[dee dee]

Hi, Personally I think that is ridiculous and firmly believe that every woman has the right to choose the type of birthing experience that she wants. After a failed induction at 41 weeks my ob strongly recommended a caesarean and to tell you the truth I was secretly relieved, as I have always been petrified of giving birth!!!

For my second child I am going to have a elective caesarean and will request this of my ob. If he does not agree I will definitely shop around. I'm not sure but it is it too late for you to find another doctor or another hospital who will agree to your wishes?

I really feel for you and believe that no one should be forcing you into doing something that you do not want to do. I know it sounds like a cliche, but in the end it is your body, and the choice should totally be yours and no one elses.

All the best

[Chickadee]

is it too late for you to find another doctor or another hospital who will agree to your wishes?

I'm not sure if this helps, it depends where you are and your situation I guess... but when I was attending the antenatal classes at the private hospital I was going to they were very upfront about doing whatever the mother wanted. ie if you want an epidural, you'll get it regardless of what stage of labour you're in. I don't know how real that is in practice, or if it extends to elective caesarians. But it might be worth phoning around.

[MummyLovesJaykob]

No matter what, the hospital you are at should respect your wishes.

I know they didnt like my decision so they brought in the head doctor in that area & i told him my decision is my decision & he said "well we have to respect your wishes" & they proceeded to book me in.

Push for what you want. Its YOUR choice.

Pregasaurus - How rude of your doctor , I would request to speak to his superior because its not actually the hospitals choice. Tell them you have 'lokiophobia' and you refuse to be forced to wait for something you fear. :/
(lokiophobia is a fear of childbirth - not pregnancy, just the childbirth itself, it was documented in my file, because thats how i apparently came across)

[pregasaurus]

unfortunately, one of the drawbacks of living in a relatively small town is that there is only ONE hospital to give birth at. You can either like it or lump it! (Hence my desire to give birth in the non-hospital affilliated birth centre before I found out my baby looks like a lollypop).

[Tannie]

Oh - you poor thing - I really feel for you :( There is no option of going elsewhere to give birth? If you are looking for an OB who will be more conducive to c/s I suggest find out which ones do IVF etc - they tend to be more open to elective c/s from my experience.
How dare the OB force you to have a VB when you don't want one ? It's ******** and I know the situation of being in a small town with few options - I had to give birth 2 hrs away to get what I wanted too.
Is there ANYONE else you can go to for help with this? how about a sympathetic senior midwife or even the hospital medical superintendent if the OB won't give you what you should be allowed to ask for?
This type of situation just makes me SO ANGRY :mad: but that doesn't help you any..........good luck.
T

[Lirael]

i have two children aged 3 1/2 and 21 months. my son (eldest) was a 20 hour labour 2 hours of puhing and 2 attempts at vacuum extraction (the first actually snapped in half) there were complications he stopped breathing and almost had his shoulders broken to be delivered due to shoulder dystocia. he weighed 4.335 kg 335 grams over the 'large baby' reason for a ceasarean. he spent 2 weeks in special care and now has learning delays. my mother overheard the doctor state they should have performed a ceasarean hours earlier. when i was pregnant with my daughter both doctors i saw agreed i should be induced to prevent this happening again- if i got to 41 weeks!!! then one turned to me and said 'oh well you did it once you can do it again' my partner and i are currently discussing a third child yet i am abolutely against a vaginal birth. i want to avoid the unnecessary trauma as i see it both to myself and my baby. i believe All WOMEN SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE TO DO WHAT THEY FEEL RIGHT FOR THEMSELVES. i will keep looking til i find a doctor who agrees with my wishes and i think you should too. dont back down its your body and your choice.

[veve]

since this thread was started a considerable time ago .. and pregasauras has since had her baby ..

if you would like more infomation about her experience.. please feel free to contact her through private messages

I'm going to close this thread now ..

thanks
Jenny