"Crying damages babies brains" [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

PhAnToM

24-05-2006, 09:59

'If your child is upset, you will reduce rather than increase their feelings of stress by not taking their upset as seriously as you would wish someone to take your own,' she added.- The Mental Health Professional, Sunderland.

I don't know that I would take these articles at face value. These articles seem dodgy to me. She contradicts herself.
And she is a Professor, but I don't see anything showing that her title has anythin do with neuroscience. She is a writer, not a scientist. :rolleyes:

You're right, each to their own. Different things work for different people. :)

Zactyl, my DH envies you. He keeps asking me when my studies will finish so i can start work and he can stay home with the kids. Bad news for him, by the time I'm done, the kids will probably also be knocking on uni's door. :laughing:

zactyl

24-05-2006, 17:44

'If your child is upset, you will reduce rather than increase their feelings of stress by not taking their upset as seriously as you would wish someone to take your own'

This didn't make any sense to me either! :laughing: I went back to the article, and it appears to be a typo, should be "If your child is upset, you will INCREASE rather than REDUCE their feelings of stress" by attempting to jollying them out of being upset.

[text deleted by moderator]

rynosmum

24-05-2006, 18:21

I'm going to go back and clean up this thread.

Please keep it nice here otherwise the thread will need to be closed.

MumsieMel

24-05-2006, 18:22

Of course Katrina,

Just friendly debate :)

Ange&Seth

24-05-2006, 18:23

*slowly puts self in middle* Shouldn't this maybe be steered back in the direction I'm sure Zactyl meant it to be, when he first started it? I am a parent who found CC to work, but as has already been stated "to each their own"

*slowly backs away* :D

Goosie22

24-05-2006, 21:59

I think it a matter of "do unto others" as far as I'm concerned.
I wouldn't like to be left crying and ignored by the people I trust and love. Therefore I dont find Controlled Crying something I would ever consider acceptable in raising my children.

misskittyfantastico

24-05-2006, 22:09

Lunar

24-05-2006, 22:10

I think it a matter of "do unto others" as far as I'm conserned.
I wouldn't like to be left crying and ignored by the people I trust and love. Therefore I dont find Controlled Crying something I would ever consider acceptable in raising my children.

Great point of view Goosie!:thumbsup:
I'm right with ya on that!

Lunar

24-05-2006, 22:12

I do not advocate CC , the idea that my DD's constant crying(which she is doing ATM) is hurting her is kind of obvious to me.

Why, here on a parenting forum can we not just support. If people have the urge to niggle, go outside and run 10 laps of your yard.

Yes very well.
As has been said before.... each to their own:thumbsup:

I do believe that everyone has different parenting techniques and we all should respect that. (that is of course if it is not bordering the lines of abuse and neglect)

Ange&Seth

24-05-2006, 22:28

I have to admit that when I was pregnant, I didn't like the idea of CC either. But after we brought bub home from hospital, I was ready to pull my hair out. At 3wks old, I couldn't get him to sleep without cuddling him constantly, and while I loved all the cuddles and bonding, it just got to a point where I desperately needed a shower and to cook dinner and do the dishes etc etc. In pure frustration one day, i put him in his cot and went to have a quick shower. Emphasis on the 'quick' - I was in there such a short time, I was surprised to find my skin wet when I got out :laughing: But, after that short amount of time, he was sleeping peacefully. After that, I thought 'maybe this isn't so bad after all' - so the next time I put him down and he cried, I let him go 1 min and then gave him a cuddle. It eventually got to the point where I could tell if he was really upset or just playing, simplyby whether or not he'd stop as soon as I walked in the room!!

I won't let him go on and on crying, it's distressing for me as well as him. But if I know he's tired and he's just having a bit of a whinge, not a full on cry, I leave him. Within 5 mins, he's out to it. And he always wakes up happy :smiliedance: so I'm happy :D

SamanthaJane

26-05-2006, 15:28

What works for some, doesnt work for others:thumbsup:

Im going to try CC, because i dont have a problem with it. IMO- there is a huge difference between CC and deliberately abandoning your child. Far too much emphasis is being placed on the whole "ignoring" sides of things!

zactyl

26-05-2006, 21:37

Sarie

26-05-2006, 21:43

I think there is a huge difference between CC and leaving your child to cry for a substantial period of time to cause damage.
We CC'd both of our boys and would continue to do so for any future children we have.

draught

26-05-2006, 21:43

Scientically established facts? Even the Australian Association for Infant Mental Health themselves acknowledge that

There have been no studies such as sleep laboratory
studies, to our knowledge, that assess the
physiological stress levels of infants who undergo
controlled crying, or its emotional or psychological
impact on the developing child.

The other sites refer to books by people who specialise in attachment parenting. I am not disputing that a distressed crying child may not be damaged as a result, I a querying your claim of "scientifically established facts" to support that claim. Scaremongering tactics perhaps?

Goosie22

26-05-2006, 22:00

The Australian Association for Infant Mental Health also go to great lengths to distance themselves from actually recommending the practice.

AAIMHI (http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf) this is the actual pdf

PhAnToM

26-05-2006, 22:04

I agree with Draught and Sarie. I actually wrote a post and then saw someone who put their view across (which was FOR CC) being attacked on this thread, and deleted it. No point if everyone's views are not respected.

I think the problem is that people are not paying attention to the first "C"- Controlled when looking at this method.
A child crying of distress is different to a child crying/whinging because they are tired. A parent who is in tune with their child can differentiate. So the notion put forward earlier, which suggested that CC is about "ignoring" our little ones... well we are parents. We care about our little ones as much as the next person.

DD and DS have both gone through CC and they are both happy to see us and they are comforted by both their Mum and Dad. We're not monsters after all. :thumbsup:

misskittyfantastico

26-05-2006, 22:07

To be fair though Lut, this is a 'no cry' sleeping solutions thread. There is also a pro-cc thread.

Funkychicken

26-05-2006, 22:11

Have to agree with you, Misskitty. I have had a bit of trouble recently with people arguing points in threads designed to support a particular parenting issue, not debate it. No offence to you either Lut, but this thread exists to support parents who advocate No-crying solutions.:thumbsup:

PhAnToM

26-05-2006, 22:24

This thread isn't about whether you do or do not have a problem with Control Crying, it is about the scientifically established fact that sustained crying in infants injures their developing brains.
Please read the articles I posted links to, and please feel free to post about your response to those articles.

Sorry but as a Postgrad in Neuroscience, i am responding to the above statement.
I was posting my support for someone's response to the article. I could actually disect all of these articles, and show you all the flaws. There is no "scientifically established fact" to support these articles. But that wasn't my point.

No need to apologise. I wasn't knocking anybody's right to No-crying. I was trying to highlight the misleading information presented.

Anyway, back to the idea of "each to their own".

zactyl

26-05-2006, 22:40

You're right Lut, it's currently a theory, "Based on [a] four-year study of brain scans and scientific research". I should have worded my post better.

If there's a chance that something you're doing could injure your child, shouldn't you be open to that possibility?

PhAnToM

26-05-2006, 23:30

Zactyl, i think i am more sceptical of the sources than your wording to be honest.

You can be sure I question anything that I believe has any remote chance of damaging my (or anybody elses) child.
However scare tactics are unnecessary. It is fair that some people choose not to let their children cry at all. That is a personal choice. And if my child seems at all to be distressed, I am the first to run up, pick him up, console him and ensure that his crying is not for any other reason than sleep.

Unfortunately, we can't accept everything presented to us at face value. :(

(My intention is not to argue the pros and cons. I do not mean to upset anybody and for this reason, edited a substantial amount of justification for my stance on this subject. And I shall leave it at that. I had no intention of hijacking the thread. :) )

Goosie22

27-05-2006, 21:11

Unfortunately, we can't accept everything presented to us at face value. :(

Unfortunately some people do and seem to advocate CC at the first sign of unsettled sleeping, children cry for a reason its the way they communicate. A little time and attention is all that is needed to change their spirits around knowing they are with someone and allowed to cry while supported. I dont wish to be ignored when I am upset so I dont ignore my child when they are upset. I see it as the start of validation of self.

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Ange&Seth

27-05-2006, 22:05

they are not alone in a room untill they vomit while I sit outside watching an egg timer:rolleyes: .

I read this, and take it that you don't really understand what 'Controlled' Crying is - rather you think that we dump our children in their cots, close the door and walk away. I'm assuming that you knew someone who left their child to cry until they vomited, while they were outside watching an egg timer? If this is so, I don't feel it is very fair of you to lump all of us CC parents in the same boat. As a few people have already stated, there is a difference between crying and having a tired whinge. The difference for my boy is that when he cries, he CRIES - but when he's tired, he lays in his cot and yells. I would never leave my boy in distress :)

misskittyfantastico

27-05-2006, 22:12

Again, this is the "no-cry" sleep solutions thread. There is a pro-CC thread also. Goosie is pretty knowledgable and well respected by many.

Ange&Seth

27-05-2006, 22:22

Again, this is the "no-cry" sleep solutions thread. There is a pro-CC thread also. Goosie is pretty knowledgable and well respected by many.

I apologise if it seemed like I hijacked this thread Kitty, but I've been following it and posting from the start. I'm not against 'No-Cry' sleeping solutions at all, and I have never once made a comment against it. The reason I have been viewing this thread is to try and get a better understanding of other ways people get their bubs to sleep.

I'm sorry, I meant no harm (and I know that's prob not gonna make it all better :o ) but I was just merely pointing out that most of us don't leave our children to cry until they vomit, and I didn't think it fair to make that accusation. While I'm sure Goosie is 'pretty knowledgable and well respected by many', unfortunately, I have not had contact with her before. I meant no disrespect, in any way, shape or form.

misskittyfantastico

27-05-2006, 22:37

Angeandseth- I know you mean no disrespct:) everyone has auch different views on parenting...I think this is why the BH folks have made sections. So that we can all find support for our various ways of thinking and parenting.:thumbsup:

draught

27-05-2006, 22:53

A reminder that this is a "no-cry" sleep section. There is a pro-controlled crying section and we area ctive in removing posts that attack the use of CC from it, so please respect those who wish to raise issues in this section.

You will notice that a number of posts have been removed. Please refrain from insulting other members.

For the record, as I posted earlier in the thread - I have used no-cry sleep solutions and controlled crying at different times and for different reasons. My issue with the topic of this thread is not the no-cry part of it, but the validity of the articles upon which the thread is based.

Let us focus on a healthy discussion of the topic and not resort to a slanging match.

draught

28-05-2006, 09:02

Despite several moderators warnings and explanations of why posts were deleted it appears that this thread cannot stay on topic - which is a discussion of the articles the original poster cited in support of his statement that crying damages babies brains.

I have removed the "off topic" posts - again - and am giving this thread one last chance before it is closed. Please behave in a responsible fashion this time.

Goosie22

28-05-2006, 10:37

The topic is Crying damages babies brains? And the posted articles supporting this statement.

Hi Ange&Seth

I have read various books and recommendations in regards to CC. The most recent article I read was in "Family Circle" an article on Tizzy Hall ( last night). She recommends using CC on newborns:eek: has comments like winning the battle ect. She has a graph with very set out time limits of leaving to cry unattended and then resettling with minimal comfort/eye contact/effection(fuss). The egg timmer comment comes from Feber/Ezzo/hogg and others as does the vomiting comment.
I dont think you need to be worried that I am not educated on the methods of CC they are many and varied though have one common thing which I find unpaletable.

Ange&Seth

28-05-2006, 18:00

Hi Goosie :wave:

I have read many things by Tizzie Hall and I have to say she is a bit over the top for my liking. And by 'a bit' - I mean 'WAY OVER THE TOP'. I don't understand how she can set such a strict routine for newborns :eek: I read alot of her stuff in Practical Parenting while I was pregnant, and now I don't even bother reading the articles when I see they're by her. Not interested :no:

Re: The egg-timer/vomiting comment - I just thought it was weird and it definitely confused me (which I have to admit, isn't hard to do LOL!) so thanks for clearin that up for me :)

Goosie22

28-05-2006, 19:26

Re: The egg-timer/vomiting comment - I just thought it was weird and it definitely confused me
No worries:)
Every CC schedule I have ever come across has references to timming the crying sessions and cleaning up the hysterical child when they vomit. It's supposed to be a matter of fact clean up with no fuss as the child is only crying themselves to the point of hysterical vomitting to gain the upperhand by manipulating the parents.

Which Sleep trainer do you go by?

Ange&Seth

28-05-2006, 20:39

Which Sleep trainer do you go by?

:laughing: Myself! I just know in myself, whether he's having a tired whinge or a 'problem' cry. It's a completely different pitch and with a tired whinge there's no tears, with a 'problem' cry there is. At the moment, I'm listening to him in his room, having a tired whinge which basically consists of 'bahdahlabah' babble and no crying at all :)

I prefer to think of it as Controlled Whinging rather than Controlled Crying :thumbsup:

Interesting that the stuff you've read says to clean up the vomit etc etc - that is just WRONG IMO! If it's Tizzie Hall that's writing that, I'm glad I don't bother reading anything she writes anymore.

Ange&Seth

28-05-2006, 20:45

It's supposed to be a matter of fact clean up with no fuss as the child is only crying themselves to the point of hysterical vomitting to gain the upperhand by manipulating the parents.

THIS could be considered Child Abuse - Mental Child Abuse. How can a child love and trust their parents when the parents are standing there, ignoring their childs hysterical cries? What then happens when the child gets so worked up he/she can't breathe? If there's no more noise, then parents might think bubs asleep, when really, he/she may very well be unconcious!

No way could I follow a sleep plan if it contained comments like the one above. How is it possible that this stuff be published?

rynosmum

28-05-2006, 21:17

Every CC schedule I have ever come across has references to timming the crying sessions and cleaning up the hysterical child when they vomit.

I think many Mums refer to trying 'Controlled Crying' (myself included up until now) however I can't even fathom the timing and vomiting comments you refer to above.

For three nights, I let my little boy self-settle. This included me leaving him whilst he whimpered and cried but I literally was in there every couple of minutes shushing him and patting him to sleep. As he would get tired, I would leave and go back in if he seemed to stir again. I only stuck at it as he adapted to it so well and so quickly. If he got up again later in the night (as he does still maybe once a month), he would get a feed and cuddle and be put back to bed.

Controlled Crying as you refer to it, seems completely ********. I wonder if many of us have active debate against other's methods when we don't completely understand what each person is doing, or how they understand a term such as this.

Food for thought.

Goosie22

29-05-2006, 09:16

Exactly CC (as it is defined crying or comforting) is a very strict buisness, and I often wonder when people openly proffess to have found it useful and their child responded well to it what type of people they are. I consider it child abuse too (I often see Tizzy recommended by people here and they state they use of CC on very young babies I am anti CC) and from what Ange&Seth and Rynosmum are saying it seems you dont practice CC and I would say your children were ready for self settling and you just responded instincly to them.

Ange&Seth

29-05-2006, 13:43

You know Goosie, you may be right about that. I think we just called it CC cos there wasn't another name for it. What can we call it?

mysonroger

29-05-2006, 14:00

. I think we just called it CC cos there wasn't another name for it. What can we call it?

i'm with that too. i have done my own loose version of lots of things that books apparently describe. i instinctively created a rountine for my DD and then was told it was almost the same as the contented little baby's book routine; a book i was really against due to its militant approach to baby rearing. i do some sort of cc, but i have never heard of vomiting children to be left . and even if i had i would have just taken that bit out. i have never known a mother to leave a child to vomit, and i would put money down that this is not representative in any way of the CC supporting population.

what i gained from the controlled crying approach was patting and self settling to sleep which i needed at the time because i had been rocking my DS to sleep and his weight was making it difficult for my back to bear....so i had to find another way to settle him before i needed a back brace...so from that perspective it helped me and it was a great success.

i'm not a fundamental in my approach to anything. i just take bits and pieces from everywhere and mix it up iwth my instinct to create my approach that works for my children.

Goosie22

29-05-2006, 14:15

You know Goosie, you may be right about that. I think we just called it CC cos there wasn't another name for it. What can we call it?

I dont think you need to call it anything, you just parent by instinct and that is what AP is about. Responding to your childs needs and working with them to gain a good deal for both. Just because we say AP dosnt mean we dont stear our kids in certain directions if it suits us. I just choose to have my kids sleep with me but you dont, Im sure my kids would be OK sleeping in another bed besides mine but I dont want to do it. The dont wake up anymore during the night, and I never stressed over it when they did that is just my nature. My boys cried my first cried a lot I carried him around in a sling, I prefered to do that than listen to him screaming.

But I would stear clear of calling it CC as it really has nasty conotations asscosiated with it and people like myself try to discorage its use whenever we can as its associated with detached style parenting.

Goosie22

29-05-2006, 14:29

i have never known a mother to leave a child to vomit, and i would put money down that this is not representative in any way of the CC supporting population.

If only that were true, if you look through the CC section here and other sites you will see support to continure for people going through this with their children, crying/screaming for over 1/2hour (not whinging), hysterically waving their arms to be picked up/hugged, crying themselves to sleep out of exhustion and vomitting not only once then after the no fuss clean up being left to it for some more egg timmer watching. All this not for a few days but weeks:rolleyes: . This is what CC is to people like me, so maybe an image revamp is in order.

I dont want to argue or nit pick for anyone who feels that this is justified.

Ange&Seth

29-05-2006, 15:13

Wow, I never knew that that was what CC was defined as - that's just scary! Maybe there needs to be more stuff written about all the different ways then, not just NC and CC iykwim. I just can't imagine anyone letting their child get so worked up that they vomit, and the parent not offering any comfort what-so-ever.
We need an emoticon that 'shudders'

Goosie22

29-05-2006, 20:48

Maybe there needs to be more stuff written about all the different ways then, not just NC and CC iykwim.

There is plenty written about the different approaches, its just that the CC ones have catchy names (Save our Sleep, The contented little baby, Baby wise to name a few) that appeal to sleep deprived parents and a lot of CHN and the like promote CC as the miracle cure for babies sleeping through the night. Some people like to continue the myth that a baby must sleep through the night by a certain age? But really nothing is going to make a baby go to sleep if its not ready its just how you get to the ready part that differs between methods. When you think about it babies are permitted or encouraged to reach milestones at their own pace and sleeping for long periods should be no different.

Very nice talking about something for once without people getting all bent out of shape:thumbsup: .

mysonroger

29-05-2006, 21:17

If only that were true, if you look through the CC section her and other sites you will see support to continure for people going through this with their children, crying/screaming for over 1/2hour (not whinging), hysterically waving their arms to be picked up/hugged, crying themselves to sleep out of exhustion and vomitting not only once then after the no fuss clean up being left to it for some more egg timmer watching. All this not for a few days but weeks:rolleyes: . This is what CC is to people like me, so maybe an image revamp is in order.

I dont want to argue or nit pick for anyone who feels that this is justified.

i will certainly look to see if your claims are true. but i will stand by my statement all the same, thank you. i'm sure you will be hard up finding anyone who will thinks this type of cc is justified so i'm sure you'll be fine avoiding the nitpick. :rolleyes:
i have never ever read anywhere that it is ok to leave a baby crying/screaming for over 1/2 hour.....so just because one person may have misinterpreted the technique doesn't mean everyone does it .....as i'm sure you know.

can you lead me to this thread about the vomiting, crying over half hour, etc.....because i would be happy to help anyone , or just be there as support for anyone experiencing a difficult time settling their babies. that's what bubhub is. i would rather be a supportive person than just sit here constantly criticising people who don't practice the parenting techniques that i practice.

mysonroger

29-05-2006, 21:34

i meant to delete that last paragraph in my last post, and didn't realise it hadn't worked. so just in case anyone cared......but its threre now, so what can i do,
hang on i will edit it. it wasn't my intentionn to leave it up, so i'm off to get rid of it.

reAllytee

30-05-2006, 01:46

I never associated CC with any of the vomitting or screaming hysterically ideas you have given Goosie cause even when i went the the mothers group organised by the local clinic we were shown a video & never once did it ever advocate using it on a child of under 6mths of age or to let a child cry hysterically we were actually advised to "time" it yes but not using a timer :confused:
Not that ive ever really done any form of CC well except in that when Boof was a newborn continously screaming & i needed a break.
But then i guess with nutters like the Pearls out there its not suprising that some people use CC as a way of doing such things to babies.

Goosie22

03-06-2006, 08:55

I think the danger with anytype of "parenting guru" is that some people seem to loose sight of their common sense or empathy for another human being, because the book says it will work? And many of these books videos actually say "stay strong" and dont be manipulated. Which sometimes clouds their judgement and encourages them to go on with something they otherwise would have stopped? Having it recommended to carry this out to the letter by health proffessional (even though there is no evidence to prove it is not damaging) is a big incentive.

Let your babies (http://www.boston.com/yourlife/home/articles/2004/06/03/when_to_let_a_baby_cry_let_the_little_one_be_your_ guide?mode=PF) be your guide.

mumat46

09-06-2006, 21:20

Hi all, I have been to 2 workshops now run by women's hospital and sleep clinics here in W.A. Both said much the same thing and gave lots of reputable evidence to support their content re damange/non damage to brains and developement.
I will try and find some electronic versions to post here.

Basically they talked about the different types of cries a baby has and how to respond to them; that they cannot all be treated the same and so have different effects on the baby.
I.e. Cry it out methods (leaving baby to cry with no comforting) can have long term effects and indeed affect brain development.
Controlled Crying where it is not working and the baby cries for over 40 odd minutes can have long term effects re psychological effects if tried for too long(i.e. over 2 weeks).
Controlled Comforting (Ngala approach) is ok because it includes maximum comforting; based on cry degree and not time.
It distinguished such crying as initial tired cries, when a baby has injured itself, scared of something, overtiredness, attention seeking etc and generally, the Dr. Green approach of a lot of firm cuddling was needed.
One Neurologist who spoke said that like all of us, some short term crying is good for us and our brain re stress release and in particular, talked about released hormones in tears being the key factor and I will try and find the article he gave out cause that was really interesting. One hospital here is doing research on this.
Another doctor spoke about brain development and in particular about brain connectors which don't finish forming until end of 6 months I think he said and this was a factor re long term - stress related crying and general stress as it affected connector development. So there wasn't just a blanket rule re long term damage.

I have posted a thread under procontrolled crying to get some help but this method didn't work for me and I moved to staying with baby and patting to sleep which has worked. My son vomits after a few minutes only and this is why I went to these workshops and why a baby cries and for how long is the key I think re what action to take and deciding if long term harm is being done.
Anyway, I found the workshops immensely helpful in identifying cry types.
Cheers

Goosie22

09-06-2006, 21:34

Thanks for posting about your experience Mumat46, would you still recommend Controlled Crying after all you and your baby have been through?

zactyl

09-06-2006, 23:44

One Neurologist who spoke said that like all of us, some short term crying is good for us and our brain re stress release and in particular, talked about released hormones in tears being the key factor and I will try and find the article he gave out cause that was really interesting. One hospital here is doing research on this.
Some great info in that post, thanks mumat46 :)
Crying is great stress release, but the important thing is having a sympathetic shoulder to cry on! I found it very helpful to know that sometimes my baby just needed a good cry, and after checking everything else (hungry, tired, nappy) I could confidently sit down with my baby and give her loving attention while she cried.

zactyl

25-06-2006, 23:56

A new blog by an Australian Social worker, offering research and resources on Controlled Crying and information about Gentle Options. May have some information you can use to support your decision to use 'No Cry' Sleeping Solutions next time you're under attack from the mother-in-law about making a rod for your back ;)
http://bawlingbabies.blogspot.com/

zactyl

30-06-2006, 01:43

And back on topic (a link from the Blog in the previous post).
Research Shows Prolonged Crying Lowers IQ In Babies (http://www.apparenting.com/research_shows_prolonged_crying_lowers_iq_in_babie s.html)

draught

30-06-2006, 08:16

Interesting that the studies conclusion:

Excessive, uncontrolled crying that persists beyond 3 months of age in infants without other signs of neurological damage may be a marker for cognitive deficits during childhood. Such infants need to be examined and followed up more intensively. (my emphasis added)

has been interpreted to mean that controlled crying is damaging to a child's IQ. It would be interesting to know what they define as "excessive" and "uncontrolled" before interpreting the results of this study too widely. Another example of using a small piece of information to make other parent's feel guilty perhaps??

Sarie

30-06-2006, 08:23

has been interpreted to mean that controlled crying is damaging to a child's IQ. It would be interesting to know what they define as "excessive" and "uncontrolled" before interpreting the results of this study too widely. Another example of using a small piece of information to make other parent's feel guilty perhaps??

Exactly, even those in the profession admit that you usually hear the negative parts of the study first, especially when people jump on the band wagon.

draught

30-06-2006, 08:34

I have read further. Reading the report of the study in full is interesting - it has NOTHING to do with controlled crying, especially for children over 6 months - it focusses on "prolonged crying". The definition the study uses is:
"Prolonged crying" was defined as "daily uncontrolled crying without any obvious cause, persisting for at least 2 weeks"

The findings in detail state:

On the other hand, prolonged crying (crying that continues beyond 3 months) was associated with a significantly increased risk of cognitive problems at 5 years of age. In this study population, prolonged crying was associated with lower IQ scores, poorer fine motor abilities, hyperactivity, and discipline problems during childhood. There were no apparent neurological or clinical signs in the prolonged crying group that would have identified these infants as being at high risk for poor cognitive development. Thus these findings indicate that prolonged crying itself may be a marker of subsequent impaired cognitive development.

Our conclusions are based on only 15 children classified as prolonged criers. Hence larger and more definitive studies need to be conducted to corroborate the findings. However, despite the small number of children in the prolonged crying group, statistically significant differences were detected for many of the outcomes because there were large intergroup differences. To explore the possibility that other factors might have caused an association between prolonged crying and cognitive development, we compared the home environments in which the children were reared and found no differences across the groups. We also examined iron status and found that ferritin levels in cord blood were similar (table 1Go). Children with prolonged crying had no major health problems such as heart disease, seizures, problems with hearing and sight, recurrent otitis media or diarrhoea, cerebral palsy, asthma, or speech problems that could account for the lower IQs observed. Iron deficiency or lead poisoning can impair cognitive development, but high serum lead concentrations and severe anaemia are rare in this population.29,30 Iron levels were not low in the prolonged crying group.

Also

n this study, colic and prolonged crying were determined prospectively but relied purely on maternal assessments without detailed recording of total duration of crying and total number of times that the child cried.

In conclusion the reports states:

It is unclear why prolonged crying is a risk factor for long term cognitive problems, and the mechanisms need to be explored. We speculate that irritability caused by subtle underlying neurological problems may be the cause of prolonged crying, despite the fact that most common neurological problems were ruled out in our population. Alternatively, children normally cry less as they mature developmentally; thus prolonged crying may be a sign of delayed maturation

So - an interesting study that would cause concern for parents of young babies who cry a lot for no apparent reason, but hardly proof that controlled crying for children over 6 months will damage their IQ.

How about accurate reporting of facts and less sensationalist guilt making???

reAllytee

30-06-2006, 11:06

How about accurate reporting of facts and less sensationalist guilt making???

draught - It is interesting isnt it :thumbsup:

zactyl

30-06-2006, 11:38

Thanks for reading the article draught :)
"Controlled Crying" (the Method) involves periods of uncontrolled crying, sometimes for prolonged periods. And people try it on babies younger than 6 months, great to see you educating them in the 'right' way to do it.
As with any study, the Interpretation of the Data can be biased.
(Like you've interpreted the article to not apply to Controlled Crying! :thumbsup:)

Tea Lady

30-06-2006, 12:17

I think the thing is though that babies involved in CC are crying for a reason (even if you don't like that reason!) and the study is talking about kids who just cry and cry even if you try to stop them. Quite different situations really.

The study authors think that the uncontrolled crying is caused by the developmental problems, not the other way around.

draught

30-06-2006, 13:00

Tea Lady - thank you for making the point I should have!

blueeyes

30-06-2006, 21:22

Interesting reading!
I am a no-cry solution gal, cant stand my son crying, even if I know what he is crying for. Luckily enough I dont have to implement any solutions at the moment. From reading and responding to others opinions, I really think that there is a massive lack of understanding about CC and also NC solutions and how to implement and WHY you implement. I have read alot of people have CC'd babes before the recommended 6 mths - I fear the validility behind their attempts (ie wanting to sleep through for their own sake) not for the parents and babes that truly have sleep problems.
My boy does not sleep through the night and I do like the Elizabeth Pantley approach but like anything regarding the raising of children, there are going to be those who do and those who dont. Just like BF v FF, disposable v cloth, routine v no routine and the list goes on.
You know your babes best, trying to do the best by them and for them. CC does not mean that you love and care for your children less.