single parenting payment while living with the x??

[La Que Sabe]

any body done this?
i'm moving house and xdp is moving with me, but i pretty much can't even afford to live if i don't get the payments i'm on now plus rent assist!
has any one gotten single parenting payment while living with the ex, what did you have to do to 'prove' that you weren't together? what is enough for them etc?

[Crazyfamily]

My sister tried to do this and there was no way she could do enough to show they weren't together. It can happen in theory but I have never heard anyone being allowed to do it just the same.

[CaitlinArai22]

i've helped a friend go thru the forms - and its hard.

they will want to know everything, from your sex life to your sleeping arrangements, eating arrangemnets, financiall, even how much time you spend together.

If you can prove that one of you are in another relationship, get signed letters from people that know you saying that you havent been together in this amount of time, etc, it will help a little.
If they class you as still living in a "marraige like" relationship, where you split groceries and share meals, they'll still count you as coupled.

I would look thru the forms carefully, and even consider moving to a friends place while you doit. its not easy hon.

[Mathermy]

I don't mean to be rude but did you recently start a thread that suggested you were sleeping together?:o

(if you didn't I'm sorry, must have been someone else:o)

because if you are it's probably going to be difficult to prove you aren't a "couple" IYKWIM? I don't think centrelink really gets the whole 'friends with benefits thing'

[La Que Sabe]

thanks for that, wow that sounds really hard.
i migh have to ring centrelink anonymously and find out more!!!! why do they make it so hard!!!

makinglolaorliam...yea i did start a thread, if you mean the one i'm thinking of but it wasn't with xdp it was with some one else :o:p

[Whispers]

When my mum had to move out of her house and couldnt find another house to stat in she stayed a my fathers,It was like a little granny flat downstairs, She was able to receave the single payment but how she did it and what forms she had to fill out I don't know

[Mathermy]

thanks for that, wow that sounds really hard.
i migh have to ring centrelink anonymously and find out more!!!! why do they make it so hard!!!

makinglolaorliam...yea i did start a thread, if you mean the one i'm thinking of but it wasn't with xdp it was with some one else :o

lol sorry, you read so many things on here it's hard to keep track. Not that I am busy keeping track of everyones sexcapades though!:laughing:

I was in your position briefly,in that the relationship was over and I couldn't afford to live alone anywhere that wasn't a complete crack-shack. I ended up moving in with mum and dad for a while:(

:fingerscrossed:you can sort something out and high five for the other thing;):devil6:(wink wink,nudge nudge)

[BabyfacedMum]

You can certainly do it.....

You have to fill out a form called a "mod LA" form which is for people who are "separated under one roof".

It contains sections regarding the splitting of bills, whether you have a sexual relationship, whether friends see you as a couple etc etc.

It actually isn't that hard to get the payment as long as you are honest.

You will need emancipated finances which basically just means that you need your own bank account and you need to be able to prove that you are footing the bill for your own living expenses - just print out a copy of your bank statement showing payment of bills and groceries etc.

You will also need two written references from people (preferably professionals) who can vouch that you are not together....if you cannot find a professional (ie GP, Teacher, solicitor etc) then letters from friends or work colleagues are fine - just don't use family.

Make sure that you are getting child support and that you can prove that you recieve child support or else centrelink might decide that your financial affairs are "interdependant".

Maybe sign up for a few dating sites so you can offer them as "proof" that you are in fact single.

With centrelink and "marriage like relationships" there are NO hard and fast rules....many, many people live with ex partners and are entitled to single parenting payments especially in this current rental climate - in fact if my DP and I broke up we would probably still co-habitate for a while because the cost of renting a decent 4 bed home (which is what I would need with my larger family) would be almost impossible on my own just on SPP. Also my cousin lived with her ex for over 4 years because it was better for the kids....a friend of mine was diagnosed with multiple Sclerosis and so her ex moved in to help care for the kids....and to help care for her....he got carers payment and everything for her and they were married for 8 years....she still claimed the SPP with no issues. It's not about the actual situation that determines whether someone is a "couple" or not...but it's about the circumstances surrounding the situation. You want to live with your ex because you cannot afford to do otherwise - this is a legitimate reason...similar if you wanted to live together to maintain shared care of your children - again a legitimate reason....if you wanted to live with him because you still loved him and wanted his company and wanted to maintain an ongoing sexual relationship then centrelink would probably be within their rights to no grant you the payment.....see the difference?

Also you can get a Stat Dec from centrelink where you can actually outline your specific circumstances and explain WHY you are still living or will begin living with your ex. He should fill one out as well.

If you get knocked back for the payment - appeal the decision and keep appealing until you have exhausted all your options. Over 60% of decisions relating to "marriage like relationships" that are appealed are overturned eventually. Also ring the Welfare Rights Advocacy service as they will help you with the appeal process and will also represent your case and help you sort out all the paperwork.

The Welfare rights advocacy service are about standing up for your rights and as long as they believe that your circumstances are legitimate they will present your case and will most likely win. Centrelink cannot lawfully withhold a payment from you unless they have proof that you are not entitled to it....this is hard for them to prove, however they will often not tell you this and will make you believe that they can do whatever they like and you have to "deal with it"....believe me this is not the case. So ALWAYS appeal a decision...centrelink officers are not infallible and many of their decisions regarding entitlements are based on personal perspective and opinion....marriage like relationships are not cut and dried like collecting the dole while earning money and not paying tax or declaring it etc...this can be proved beyond a doubt when tax records are matched up......or bank details are perused...

Good luck.

P.S you can download a Mod La form from online if you wish and have it filled out and ready to go....just google Mod LA.

[Ana Gram]

Actually, it doesn't matter how honest you are, it is still ridiculously hard.

I have unfortunately been through the process and I really wish I hadn't. The ex and I ended up having to live together for a year because I was knocked back. The reasons for the denial of payment was because I was not financially independent (well dur, I received $70 a week from Centrelink, bit hard to be financially independent on that :rolleyes:) and I could not prove that we were not in a sexual relationship, which quite frankly was insulting and ridiculous.

The decision also depends on the person doing the review. I went in for my interview and the person doing the interview was a complete cow and tried to discourage me from going through with it.

Oh and I was told that it isn't up to them to prove that I am not entitled for the payment, I had to prove I was.

[c2p08]

any body done this?
i'm moving house and xdp is moving with me, but i pretty much can't even afford to live if i don't get the payments i'm on now plus rent assist!
has any one gotten single parenting payment while living with the ex, what did you have to do to 'prove' that you weren't together? what is enough for them etc?

It would be very very doubtful that you could prove that you and ure ex arnt actually together anymore unless you have a new partner living with you... but, then you wouldnt get the single thing anyway... i have known acouple o fpeople who have tried it and centrelink has said to them that there is no way of proving your not partnered with that person while you live together...

[BabyfacedMum]

Actually, it doesn't matter how honest you are, it is still ridiculously hard.

I have unfortunately been through the process and I really wish I hadn't. The ex and I ended up having to live together for a year because I was knocked back. The reasons for the denial of payment was because I was not financially independent (well dur, I received $70 a week from Centrelink, bit hard to be financially independent on that :rolleyes:) and I could not prove that we were not in a sexual relationship, which quite frankly was insulting and ridiculous.

The decision also depends on the person doing the review. I went in for my interview and the person doing the interview was a complete cow and tried to discourage me from going through with it.

Oh and I was told that it isn't up to them to prove that I am not entitled for the payment, I had to prove I was.

---------------------------------------------

This is why around 60% of decisions relating to "marriage like relationships" are overturned on appeal.

My mother is one who reviews centrelink appeals and is in charge of reviewing cases and looking at appeals (after the initial appeal stages). She says that most people who initially process the claim are under the "misguided" perception that the onus is on the client to "prove" their entitlement....however legislation says otherwise :) Legislation states that it is a right by law that no one is denied a payment they are rightfully entitled to UNTIL such time as their entitlement is revoked (ie they are proved to not be entitled). Even centrelink "breaches" are being reviewed so it's more in line with this policy.

Centrelink can be full of self-righteous bullies who think they have the right to determine whether you recieve income of a last resort - this power trip ****es me off. Welfare is a right of all Australian citizens and the onus is NOT on you to prove your entitlement - beyond the obligatory paperwork, proof of citizenship, income andother "provable" facts regarding your entitlement.

According to the Welfare rights advocacy services they recieve many, many calls each day from distressed individuals who have been told by centrelink that they have to "prove" their situation.....in some cases people are taken off various payments and either put onto another lesser payment or put on no other payment at all....centrelink are actually in the wrong by doing this....often even centrelink staff are not aware of the rules governing the rights of people to appeal a decision....often a centrelink worker will decline a claim and then state that the person has "no other option but to accept the lesser payment or no payment"....most people take this as gospel and then wonder how they are going to eat, pay rent and live. This is not the case though and if you are unhappy with a decision or feel that your circumstances were not taken into consideration then please appeal....most appeals actually do win.......an alarming number actually. My mother has said that in all her years of reviewing appeals relating to "marriage like relationships" she has only refused to overturn around 20...and she has reviewed hundreds.....The ones she refused were mostly refused because the people themselves admitted that they view themselves as a couple or they actually got married while one of them was technically "single".

Just remember though that the initial appeal goes straight back to the person who made the original decision...so is likely to not be over-turned at that stage....just take it to the next stage - and the next if necessary.

Basically if YOU don't see yourselves as a couple then centrelink cannot prove a "marriage-like situation"...and YES THEY have to prove this and not you! They are bound by the laws written in the "Charter of Human Rights" as well as welfare legislation so are not a law unto themselves - although they often like to believe they are....and have you believe they are! Even most centrelink workers are unaware of the policies and legislations that shapes our welfare system...they usually get a few weeks training in a specific area and then are expected to look up any info they are unsure off - however not many like to admit to not knowing what the hell they are talking about so will usually say whatever they want to the client.....and hope that the client doesn't know any better.

Another tip is if your claim is declined....go into an office and ask for the "log-in" of the person who rejected your claim....let them know that you will be appealing the decision and that you want their Log-In as reference for your appeal - i'll bet your claim gets over-turned on it's first round of appeal ;) The centrelink worker does need to justify his/her decision when a claim is up for appeal.....if they cannot do so then they can get into a lot of trouble...especially if they rejected your claim for something small and trivial...such "oh she couldn't prove she wasn't having sex with him"....this is trivial because a) as I stated you do NOT have to prove this and b) your sexual relationship is only ONE factor in the decision....you can have sex with him and still not be coupled......there is no ONE deciding factor that determines your relationship status....the whole situation needs to be looked at as a whole and if the claim officer doesn't do this and cannot prove that he/she did this then the decision cannot be upheld. The on appeal the centrelink officer HAS to show reasons and verifications of your "marriage like status"...this can include things like letters from family and friends stating that you are a couple....proof of marriage after you became single......you admitting that you still thought of him as your partner....joint finances apart from child support etc. Things that cannot be used as proof are "lack of proof of sexual relationship".....joint parenting, social outings together as long as they are perceived by your social circle as not being "marriage like". Also things like buying each other christmas presents or going grocery shopping together cannot be used as proof......You guys could be caught together in the sack from a centrelink worker and it still wouldn't be enough to make a legal determination of your relationship status - although most centrelink officers will use this as evidence and reject your claim based on this - they will probably even think they are making the right decision...but again appeal the decision.

Marriage like relationships are the hardest cases for centrelink to prove - which is why so many are overturned on appeal....even people who are probably pulling a dodgy will get away with it simply because it's such a grey area. Most people don't appeal though and they just suffer along wondering when things will get better....centrelink like people to be like this....unfortunately for centrelink though the later stages of appeal are not even through centrelink but through an independant body...and they also hate to look bad so when they know they cannot back up their claim rejection they will often revoke the rejection and uphold the appeal just to save face and not look like the "Bad guy" to various welfare groups......it really does pay to know your rights and to exercise them. I have done so on many occasions and it's always worked out for me :D

Also at the end of the day if you don't get approved for separated under one roof and your appeals fail then you really aren't any worse off than now! But you just never know - I personally, think that if you are prepared to fight the initial close minded idiots that may be fronting the customer service desk (some are really nice and will approve your claim no problems) and take your claim to a higher level that you will eventually be successful.

Good luck - ultimately it's up to you but I say put in a claim and deal with whatever happens when it happens.

[Ana Gram]

Sure, that's nice to know now. Doesn't help me now however. The reason they get away with this cr*p is because everyone is scared to do the review as I was told that if I did, it would take at least 8 weeks and I would not get any payment during that time. I can't live for 8 weeks with no money with a child.

So like everyone else, I suck it up and put up with their stupid rules of not living with anyone of the opposite sex and not having men stay over at my house. By the time you get through the process, it has already been a huge fight and to then be faced with a review was too stressful.

[YoungYummyMummy]

I Tried, My ex and I slept in different rooms. Unfortunately centerlink sees you as partnered. The whole point of a single parent payment is that you get minimal help from the father or someone else. Living together, means that he should be giving you money for the things you need to care for your baby, being the father. If it was any other man, it would be not considered as partnered, assuming you sleep in different rooms.

Oh and you don't have to prove anything, as soon as you mention or they find out that he is the father your automatically partnered.

[BabyfacedMum]

Chellegoth - (((HUGS))) this is another thing that p!sses me off about centrelink. To start with most of the time they will try and put you off appealing. They do this by telling the cust. that they will be without payment for a certain length of time. What they DO NOT tell you is that you can DEMAND to be paid "pending appeal"...and they cannot refuse to do so if you request it. I will look around and find the exact para. in the "Social Security Act" that outlines the payment pending review option. You will however have to pay back the entire amount if your appeal is unsuccessful.

YoungYummyMummy - Actually no living with the father of your child does NOT automatically make you "partnered".....maybe in the minds of certain centrelink workers who will try and play God and make assumptions about someones living arrangements. However in the "Social Security Act" there is NO presumption of "coupled" status simply because you are co-habitating with the father of your child(ren).

What people need to keep in mind also is that centrelink are a social security entity whose sole purpose is to provide a safety net for all Australians (be it financial or otherwise).....however it is operated by HUMANS who are (to be honest) mostly poorly trained, underpaid and overworked. Centrelink also has many policies which contradict (or undermine) the "Social Security Act"....however in ALL cases the laws within the SSA will always supercede any policy within centrelinks framework. The SSA is the LAW and is what is looked at in a court of law (or reviews tribunal). No matter how morally or ethically reprehensible your actions are perceived to be by the mere centrelink customer service worker....We Australians ONLY have to answer to the LAW (being the SSA and NOT some dodgy centrelink policy). Just because a centrelink worker decides that someone choosing to live with her ex (and father of her children) must be a whacko or a fraud - simply because she hates her ex and can't imagine that others could possibly co-habitate with an ex without reconciling - doesn't make that behaviour illegal. At the end of the day for your payment to be denied you need to be doing something illegal under the ACT (either with or without intent). Currently there are NO lows which state that it is illegal to co-habitate with an ex partner WITHOUT reconciling the relationship.

There are also no laws which state that centrelink can cut off a persons income of last resort without proof that the said person has other income or means of financial support. Centrelink will do this all the time though.....even their breach system is currently so flawed that it is bordering on illegal (if not already so) and is currently being investigated by the ombudsman (for about the 10th time as they continue to inflict harsh policies which conflict with the "ACT").

I don't blame centrelink workers themselves for all these problems though...as they are human and are not properly trained in the "act". Most of the time they honestly believe they are behaving ethically and within their rights......

I blame the entire system which is a product of our increasingly capitalist society. More socially based welfare and less of the capitalist "user pays" and "everyone must grovel and be grateful for the crumbs" attitude that we currently sport as our nations catch-cry and our needy would be much better supported!

Moral of the story is don't take any sh!t lying down! Centrelink are merely a vehicle with which our nation uses to provide for and protect our needy....it is not some extension of God Himself.....nor some modern day Moses coming down some big mountain and telling us all how we need to live......(we are not starving Jews in the desert either :D we have RIGHTS and OPTIONS).

Please everyone take this post as it was intended...as helpful advice and not as some rant on our capitalist society (I do believe capitalism has it's good points too). I also don't hate centrelink...I think it provides a very much needed service and most of my experiences with them have been positive ones :)

[threechooks]

Be careful about lying on a form then signing your name. That is Fraud. Think about how hard it would be to be a mother if you were in prison. Just outlining the otherside of the coin. Can you work a couple of hours a week to make ends meet?

[YoungYummyMummy]

Chellegoth - (((HUGS))) this is another thing that p!sses me off about centrelink. To start with most of the time they will try and put you off appealing. They do this by telling the cust. that they will be without payment for a certain length of time. What they DO NOT tell you is that you can DEMAND to be paid "pending appeal"...and they cannot refuse to do so if you request it. I will look around and find the exact para. in the "Social Security Act" that outlines the payment pending review option. You will however have to pay back the entire amount if your appeal is unsuccessful.

YoungYummyMummy - Actually no living with the father of your child does NOT automatically make you "partnered".....maybe in the minds of certain centrelink workers who will try and play God and make assumptions about someones living arrangements. However in the "Social Security Act" there is NO presumption of "coupled" status simply because you are co-habitating with the father of your child(ren).

What people need to keep in mind also is that centrelink are a social security entity whose sole purpose is to provide a safety net for all Australians (be it financial or otherwise).....however it is operated by HUMANS who are (to be honest) mostly poorly trained, underpaid and overworked. Centrelink also has many policies which contradict (or undermine) the "Social Security Act"....however in ALL cases the laws within the SSA will always supercede any policy within centrelinks framework. The SSA is the LAW and is what is looked at in a court of law (or reviews tribunal). No matter how morally or ethically reprehensible your actions are perceived to be by the mere centrelink customer service worker....We Australians ONLY have to answer to the LAW (being the SSA and NOT some dodgy centrelink policy). Just because a centrelink worker decides that someone choosing to live with her ex (and father of her children) must be a whacko or a fraud - simply because she hates her ex and can't imagine that others could possibly co-habitate with an ex without reconciling - doesn't make that behaviour illegal. At the end of the day for your payment to be denied you need to be doing something illegal under the ACT (either with or without intent). Currently there are NO lows which state that it is illegal to co-habitate with an ex partner WITHOUT reconciling the relationship.

There are also no laws which state that centrelink can cut off a persons income of last resort without proof that the said person has other income or means of financial support. Centrelink will do this all the time though.....even their breach system is currently so flawed that it is bordering on illegal (if not already so) and is currently being investigated by the ombudsman (for about the 10th time as they continue to inflict harsh policies which conflict with the "ACT").

I don't blame centrelink workers themselves for all these problems though...as they are human and are not properly trained in the "act". Most of the time they honestly believe they are behaving ethically and within their rights......

I blame the entire system which is a product of our increasingly capitalist society. More socially based welfare and less of the capitalist "user pays" and "everyone must grovel and be grateful for the crumbs" attitude that we currently sport as our nations catch-cry and our needy would be much better supported!

Moral of the story is don't take any sh!t lying down! Centrelink are merely a vehicle with which our nation uses to provide for and protect our needy....it is not some extension of God Himself.....nor some modern day Moses coming down some big mountain and telling us all how we need to live......(we are not starving Jews in the desert either :D we have RIGHTS and OPTIONS).

Please everyone take this post as it was intended...as helpful advice and not as some rant on our capitalist society (I do believe capitalism has it's good points too). I also don't hate centrelink...I think it provides a very much needed service and most of my experiences with them have been positive ones :)

Thank you so much. When I rang up anon and when I went in they told me that I was to be considered partnered. I'm sooo glad that its not the case. My ex wants to spend time with his son, and we are friends, we would happily live together as house mates without the relationship.

Not a rant. every word you spoke was the truth. Thank you.

[Phezza]

Umm.. okay..

Just a couple of things babyfacedmum... A. Its 'Log-on' not log-in, and it is normally against privacy that other Officers are able to give these out. B. I am pretty sure the majority of the information you have posted is illegal to place in a public forum as it is policy, not legislation.

For everyone else.. you have three steps of appeal open to you to which are free.

You can request an ODM (original decision maker) which requests that the person that origionally made the decision that you were not entitled review what has been provided to them (with extra info if you are able to provide that also!), and either stand by their decision, or overturn it.

If the decision is not overturned, you can ask for an ARO (Authorised Review Officer) to look at the decision the ODM has made, and as a third person, compare the decision to Legislation. You are again able to provide more evidence at this stage, and they will either stand by the original decision, or overturn it.

If the ARO decides to stay with the original decision, you are then able to request the decision go to the SSAT (social security appeals tribunal), to which they will do the same thing as the ARO, and either decide to keep it, or again.. overturn it.

If the SSAT does not overturn the original decision, then you will then have to find yourself a lawer and the steps after this will be at your own cost. however there have been some cases that have gone higher and people have won.

You are able to appeal at any time, and all of this information should be available to you on both the website and from centrelink offices. Most Centrelink staff I know are more than willing to provide you with information.

Seperated while living under the one roof is a bit of a hard one, and staff do have policies and guidelines to which they need to abide by. The legislation is very open ended, and can therefore be swayed either way. Many of these decisions ARE overturned at the ARO stage because customers are able to provide more information etc.

Please be aware that you CAN continue to get payment, however if you are NOT receiving a payment from centrelink (ie. your claim has been rejected) then you cannot be paid this payment while the appeal is going though, however there are other payments that can be granted as an interrum. :thumbsup:

[sevagg]

I have recently moved in with my ex (we have a 2.5 year old son together) and I am now being told by Centrelink that I have to make every possible effort to move out, otherwise I will be deemed as living in a "Partnered" relationship.
Before moving in here (4 months ago) I made every effort to find somewhere else to live. I couldn't afford to live on my own and pay all expenses and had no luck at finding anyone that wanted to live with someone with a small child. I contacted the Centrelink office and explained my circumstances and asked about renting 2 rooms at my ex's house. I was told there would be paperwork to fill ou, but yes there was no reason that this would be a problem.
Well I am unsure of what to do now. I was on the waiting list for Housing Commission, but was taken off while i was living with friends (who split up and was the reason I had to move) even though it was only for a short period. I have an appointment with them to see if I can get back on the list, but I know the waiting list is quite long and I am worried I am going to end up with no payments at all.
Has anyone else been in a similar situation?

[Phezza]

Provide Centrelink with as much info as you can, explain that you do not share expenses, and if expenses are joined they are to provide for your child.

Pretty much anything you can think of that you believe will contribute to your status will help. Have your ex sign a stat dec too to state that you are not living in a married like relationship, if you both pay rent seperately show bank statements or recipts reflecting this. If you pay your ex rent, then do the same, anything to show that you soley see this relationship as two single people in the same house.

If you are waiting for housing with the housing commission and you have anything that they have provided you (letters, stamped coppies etc) then have these with you too.

You need to show that you are without a doubt living on your own.. it just happens to be under the same roof as your ex.

As I mentioned above, if you are not satisfied with the decision made, you have a right of appeal. :thumbsup:

[tania83]

Hi guys,
I have a 2 yr old son and im not with his father. However i slept with his dad (Ben) recently and have now discovered im pregnant again.
I am currently living with my parents. My son and i have our own separate rooms but my brother will be moving back in with us soon which doesnt leave alot of room for me and my soon to be 2 little ones.
I have been trying to find somewhere else to go but have exhaused all of my options. My friends dont want to share a house with me and 2 kids.
I have NEVER been in a relationship with Ben and centrelink know that.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how i would get on with moving in with Ben with my 2 kids. I dont want to share 1 bedroom with a 2 yr old and an infant. But if i have to i will.
Its awkward because we are not separated we have never been a couple.
He has actually formed a relationship with somebody else who is living with him at the moment. :no: