10 month 8th day still not working

[mumat46]

Hi, I am a single mum of a just 10 month old. Resorted to CC because he has been up every 2 hours since born. Done everything else. Try each thing for 5 days before I give up. Been doing CC 8 days now. Instructions say by 3rd day should be settling under 20 minutes. 2 day sleeps still crying between 55 and 80 minutes and night settling taking over an hour. Wakes at 3am and will not go back down. All 8 middle night wakings have been crying for between 1.5 - 2 hours before I give up; give bottle and take to bed with me (but he will still shudder and sob for another hour). Prior to CC he happy little independent baby, who would laugh all day, go to anyone, happily play by himself for hour etc. Now he is very clingy and sobby during the day; won't go to others, won't even sit on his own, screams when I leave room.
I am doing everything according to instructions. Any ideas. How long before I should give this up? Thanks for any suggestions.

[CJJHRA]

is his no sleeping bothering you, do you need to CC him to get some sleep yourself? I tried CC on my first son, gave up after trying it three days, he would just scream the house down for hours, if I were to leave him. He slept with DP and Me mostly, or in a bed next to us, else he just would not sleep. By almost 4, he was happy to finally sleep in his own room and by himself.

[jessica]

Hi,

Although I'm totally pro CC it sounds like you might need to stop and try again later!! If he is that distressed I personally don't think its worth it!! It's hard enough listening to a baby distressed at night but if he's unhappy all day I think it's time to look at some other techniques? I'm afraid I have no other solutions or advice but maybe check out the no-cry sleep techniques threads....

Good Luck!

[Tea Lady]

Yes, I agree with Jessica that you may need to look at other options. Do you have a sleep clinic near you? They're meant to be helpful, even if you just ring them. :hugs:

[mumat46]

Hi all and thanks for this prompt feedback. I am on a really small budget so the WA sleep clinics are all really expensive. I have tried all the suggestions Parent support group, health nurse and phone service of sleep clinics plus other mum's suggestions. I have tried co-sleeping but he just parties all night (bouncing, staying awake playing for hours! etc). Tried cot in my room but just screams to come to me. Tried mmm what is it called - where you sit in nursery facing away from cot but sooth with voice. Tried CC with cuddles. Tried St John God Hospital method.
I need to do something because being single, I am absolutely exhausted during the day and getting little sleep at night so on verge of not coping. I sleep when he sleeps in day and this is my only saviour.
I was soothing in pram and transferring to cot which he was happy with, but waking every couple hours. I then go to him straight away pat, pat and off he went, only to wake again a couple hours later. I just can't go on like this.
All advice I have say CC is the answer. Tried it at 8 and 9 months for 4 days but gave up when didn't work. I could cope with day and night settling crying but the 3am waking and not going back is a mystery - do ya reckon I should just give a bottle for that? Thanks for any feedback.

[Mrs Little]

Hi There Mum at 46.

You're doing a great job.:hugs:

Have u tried doing CC but going in and comforting him when he becomes escalted? As his mum...you know when he gets worked up.

Do your routine....put him to bed..say goodnight...and leave the room. ( Maybe some music or static?). When u think he's worked up you go in the room and settle him - DON'T settle by picking him up...leave him in the cot...leave the room dark....just whisper to him and pat him or rub his face...something to calm him down. When he's calm...leave the room and try again.

What kind of routine do you have? What time is he being fed? Maybe the 3am wake is truely hunger? If he takes the whole bottle then i'd assume that it's hunger and then i'd put him straight back to bed.

I hope thats helpful.

Mrs Little & Son.

[sarah81]

Have you tried ringing the Ngala helpline. We did CC with DS2 at 10months and he was taking over an hour to settle and I felt like was dong the wrong thing, I rang them and they were really helpful with making a plan to follow, helping you to interpret the type of cry etc. (sorry, we are in WA too)

The main thing that was preventing it from working with my DS was that I was giving him mixed messages. If I felt like had gone on too long I would give in and pat/feed him. This just made the next sleep worse! I really had to be tough and follow through, once he knew what I expected of him he got it. I think I was really confusing him. He now goes to sleep happily and last night slept 11hours :smiliedance:

Good luck :D

[mumat46]

Hi and thanks for your interest.
I do go in and comfort him at the right timed intervals unless he becomes absolutely hysterical, which has happened and I do go in and pat, whisper etc but don't pick up. It seems to make it worse when I leave the room after trying to calm. I have the hall light on low, have low music playing which he likes.
He has thrown up 3 times within a few minutes of the night cc which I clean up, pull of cot sheet, change him etc without looking at etc.
He is a great feeder; 3 solid meals + 2 snacks + 3 meal bottles and 2 snack bottles and last bottle. He is on a really health diet. So I know it is not hunger, but the 3am bottle is a calmer (half strength) but I am really trying to cut it out altogether ideally. We have a good night routine.

I did a "cry workshop" at single mum's group but it is just the length of the cry that stumps me. I was giving water first night but they said to stop that so I did.
Last night was bad, so I picked him up after 1.5 hours. I think I am going to just try doing cc at nighttime and just pram settle for the 2 day time sleeps cause it seems pointless to have nearly 3 hours of cry time in exchange for 2 hours of sleep. Although I suppose this is breaking a routine?

A friend who is an expert at cc came and watched me last night and said I was doing it all perfectly and couldn't understand why it wasn't working - it worked great for her 3. Maybe I will just accept we are in the % that it doesn't work for.
Anyway keep those ideas coming if you think of anything - I appreciate the support.

[mumat46]

Hi, I just forgot to add about Ngala advice which I got via phone;
They no longer support CC anymore. They are THE WA centre for sleep advice in our state and USED to recommend it but no longer do.
They say they have moved on to newer research based methods. I will post their method on the non cry methods tonight. I can't really afford their in house services. ta again

[Mrs Little]

Hi There....

gee...you really have kept yourself supported and informed about CC.

I'm surprised to hear that it's not working too.....did it ever work for him?

Maybe he's crying for a different reason? Maybe there is something else wrong?

Do u put him to sleep after play time or a feed?

Mrs Little & Son.

[SnoozesWithCats]

Firstly - you've been coping with him up every two hours day or night for the last ten months, you're a single mum, and you're still able to form a coherent thought on a message board? :eek: My hat is off to you! Seriously, my dd2 went through a phase just recently where she was up every hour and a half - it lasted three weeks and I thought I'd go absolutely mental by the end of it

Secondly - bad news, yes, cc can take a LONG time for certain babies - well over a month with my dd1 and she didn't react nearly so badly as your ds. I'd be with the consensus to give it a rest again from what you describe of his daytime behaviour (dd1 did scream and scream with cc, but what kept us going was she was still happy as a lark in the daytimes)

Thirdly - personally I think it's absolutely fine to do different stuff in the daytimes to the nighttimes (if you think about it, you're doing that anyway, 'cos in the daytime when he's had his sleep you get him up, but at night you keep putting him back and putting him back) and I never noticed it confusing either of my girls

Fourthly - some random suggestions...

What I did recently with dd2, after an unsuccessful 4 days of attempting cc (behaviour very much like you describe with yours - it was clearly just freaking her out) was:

A week and a half of "regaining trust" - basically, whatever worked to put her to sleep (in her case, Magic Boob of Sleep day and night), getting her to be calm and happy again about going to bed

Then worked on only the first night-time settle - she had to self-settle at her 6-o'clock bedtime. All other times I continued on with settling her with milk. After about 5 days of this she'd gone from 6 night wakings to 3 - just getting the start right seemed to set her up for the rest of the night and she wasn't too freaked about having one "absence of mummy" bedtime like she had been with a whole night of it.

(like all suggestions, this may of course not work for you ... dd2s thing was that she HAD been able to self-settle and then seemed to forget how for a month or so)

Another random suggestion - you say if you co-sleep he "parties all night" - as in, presumably he's happy, just not sleeping. Any chance of just clearing out a room of everything except a mattress on the floor, and then you go to sleep on it and he does whatever the hell he wants for as long as he likes. Would you be able to get any sleep like that, or would he demand your participation? or just keep you up with his noise (I'm assuming that your current co-sleeping problem is you have to stay awake while he's awake to stop him hurling himself headfirst off the bed, or getting stuck under furniture or whatever)

:hugs: I'll be keeping you in my prayers, it sounds like a rotten situation you're in just at the moment

[mumat46]

Hi, well I tried it at 8 and 9 months but didn't work then.
Same reasons - that he got really distressed quickly and wouldn't stop crying.
He just can't put himself to sleep because I have been responding to him up til now - going to him to comfort straight away and settling in the pram rather than putting asleep in his cot.
At the 8 and 9 month tries he also used to vomit within a few minutes of putting in the cot because he worked himself into a state so quickly but he has done that only 3 times this last week.
The crying is definitely settling related.
He starts as soon as I head into the nursery now and just becomes hysterical as soon as I put him in his cot.
He is very determined and can just keep going.
I was hoping as he got older he would get more tired but even when he was crawling and now walking - it hasn't made any difference. He wakes and he just cannot put himself back to sleep without crying for his "room service."
I didn't want to give up since I had got this far - I thought maybe he was about to turn but I can see now the last 2 days things are getting worse. So depending upon tonight, I might go back to cosleeping and then try the Ngala method again.

[mumat46]

Thanks Snoozes with Cats. What a bloody brilliant idea! Why didn't I think of that! Yes!!!! I AM waiting for him to hurl himself off the bed cause he crawls around, rolls over and over for fun etc and after tonight - I am gonna do exactly what you suggest and put a mattress on a floor of a spare room.
Yes - will do the "regaining trust" thing - good idea.
Yes - ok - glad to hear first night time settle only might work - will try.
Have printed out your suggestions to reread again.

Thanks SO MUCH for these fabulous suggestions - they are ALL WONDERFUL.

P.S. I obviously haven't read the instructions properly - just saw your notice under the reply screen - have been reading on the whole thread screen where I can't see your notice.

[ToTeenyTots]

Hi Mumat46
I just wanted to say that I agree with snoozeswithcat. I had a lot of trouble with CC and even though I am not a single mum I have a partner who is away alot and I have some idea what it is like doing CC on your own. It is hard and draining with at times little or no reward. I would concentrate efforts on one sleep a day and work from there. My little one is 16 months and we no longer have any sleep issues other than those associated with teething etc. She is feral when she is getting teeth. Yet I still have a room with a mattress in the floor and a box of toys that I use occasionaly when Tash gets unsettled in the wee hours for sanity sake!
I should also add that I had a few goes at CC and didnt really get any permanent results till she was nearly 1. You probably didnt want to hear that.
Good luck
Anna:wave:

[Tamz]

hi hun, you poor thing:(


ring ngala they are great. also if u have private health insurance it covers the cost. if u dont have private HI , im sure u being a single parent the price would b cheaper????

good luck

Tamz

[munchkin05]

hi

i can totally relate to you ben is 11mths old now and still not sleeping at night (he is slowly getting better )

up untill about 2 weeks ago he was wake 4-5 times a night

i tried cc and he done the same thing getting very distressed and clingy during the day so i gave up on that i rang nagala and they were no help i found them not very good at all

but im hoping that one day in the near future:fingerscrossed: ben will sleep through the night

hope things work for you and bubs

[ToTeenyTots]

I rang Ngala a few time over the Tashies lack of sleep and I know it shouldnt be but it does depend on who answers your call. The first time I thought yeah good! It was my sister who convinced me to give then another go and sure enough I got a lady who I could talk to and she understood my situation.
If you just call for a basic conversation it is free but if you want a proper consultation it is means tested so the cost is relevent.
This will sound hard but the last lady I spoke to at Ngala told me to let Tash cry it out. She would have been about 11-12 months by then. I said no can do she just stands up in her cot and screams and the lady said yep that will happen but give it a go. That means no going back in unless they sound like they are hurting themselves. I said it wont work. She promised me that it would take 45 mins for her to go to sleep. That I was to Time it and see. Well it broke my heart and I cried as much as Tash but after 45 min she was asleep and it improved in leaps and bounds from there. I dont believe it would have worked if I hadnt tried CC before but all I know is Tash now sleeps and I am glad.
That approach is probably not for everyone but I know it can work
Cheers
Anna

[SnoozesWithCats]

I AM waiting for him to hurl himself off the bed cause he crawls around, rolls over and over for fun etc and after tonight - I am gonna do exactly what you suggest and put a mattress on a floor of a spare room.


well, I hope the suggestions prove as useful in Real Life as they sounded to you on screen!

do give us an update when you get some spare time up your sleeve - we're all cheering for you

:hugs:

[mumat46]

Hi all, well here is a short term update...will update in a week also.
I rang Ngala again yesterday. I originally rang them a few months ago (which is where I got the original CC info from). Matter of fact type person who guarenteed it would work. 2nd call few weeks ago got different person who said they don't do CC anymore - a bit offhand and kinda didn't really want to be bothered with me I felt cause I was doing maximum comforting. Yesterday lovely lady also confirmed cc not supported any more but said I need to stop and transfer to Controlled Comforting which is sitting/standing at bed settling until baby is calm and leave and come in not at timed intervals but when baby's crying is at a level that I felt needed comfort. Do until baby falls asleep. If baby wakes, go in immediately to comfort. Really - this is what I did anyway that I thought was wrong - constant and immediate comforting. Anway - she told me one thing that has proved very true - don't put the dummy back in to mouth but put into baby's hand so that he doesn't need me to do it.
This last lady did say they had finally got more funding and so can put on more helpers for longer so maybe it is their advice line has a lot of organisational issues that we may not be aware of or understand.
I spoke to a nurse today who did CC at Ngala with her 3 babies; first 2 it worked a dream in 3 days; her 3rd she went and stayed at Ngala for a week and it didn't work - even with all their staff helping and working on him. He just got angry and hysterical - so that made me feel a lot better.

I have moved his cot out of nursery and now we only go in there to play and read stories so that should establish some trust of me and the room.
I have moved him into my very sparse bedroom and put mattress on floor and although he still plays middle of the night, at least he can't hurt himself.
I am giving him one watered-down bottle when he wakes. I haven't got a cure yet for the crying for long periods everytime he wakes (which has only started in the last week - before he would go back as soon as I went to him).
I decided -yes- daytimes were a waste of effort so I am concentrating on the night settle. I am gonna do all this for 2 weeks and then...I am gonna try cc with the night settle in his cot in my room so that he doesn't get a complex about his room. I still think CC can work. I don't feel Controlled Comforting is gonna work now that we have done all this (cause I think he his on to me).

If I could find a cure for the throwing up after a few minutes, I might have been tempted to continue trying the night settle with CC. But the changing of the cot, him and me just took too long and disrupted the whole process. I tried feeding him earlier, putting cereal in his milk but it seemed to be the convulsive motions that would bring it all up no matter what he ate or when.

Anyway today was my first mother's day and at 47 that is saying something.
I had a long talk to him and explained he had been such a wonderful boy during the day - I could cope with the stuffed up nights and I know he will soon be 21 and out of my life too soon - he had been a perfect baby otherwise so I will just wear all this. Lots of people have a lot worse than this to put up with.

THANKYOU ALL SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND ADVICE...I have eaten it all up.
I will let you know how we go in a week or two.

[munchkin05]

hope its working out for you


let us updated on how ur going

good luck :thumbsup:

[lil monkey]

Hiya,

Good on you for calling Ngala. We have just come back from our 2nd week stay with them.

With Ngala, they do day stay and overnight stay. Day stay is you go in for day and they help to assess your child etc and give you ideas on what to do. Downside is that usually the day you go in, your child will be an angel.

Overnight stay is going there mon - friday and staying there with around the clock support and staff there to assess your child and work with you.

Yes there is a cost but it is all income based. So, as you are on a low income, the cost should be very minimal as the government does fund you.

The helpline is a funny thing as one call you get a total cow helping you out and the next time you get a complete angel!

We went and did a day stay when dd was 5 weeks and she played up beautifully so we then got in on a overnight stay when she was 3 months and they offered us a 2nd week as she was a rotten day sleeper and very stubborn. We have just done another overnight stay at 15 months and the improvement is 200%.

They stopped doing CC quite a while ago and now they teach you to listen to the tone and sound of your bubs crying so you get confident in knowing why they are crying. You don't go in when they are at the peak of hysteria but when they go through a quieter screaming patch and do the shhhhhhh, lie down it's sleep time, cover them back up and a little pat and walk out. I was doing this for 4 hours last week at night and now i don't have to do it. Once they realise that you are being consistent and won't give in they do generally give up but perhaps in your case, you have a real stubborn lil man on your hands.

Please give Ngala another call and see if they can tell you what the cost would be. Of course there is the other issue of having to take a week off work if you are working but I thoroughly recommend you going there as you will learn things even if you think you can't learn anymore! Either that or go and borrow or buy a copy of Dr Richard Ferbers book! :p

[kalsar]

hi there

I had to use cc with my little guy for 2 weeks straight and yes, he would cry for up to 2 hours. In the last hour I would only go in every ten minutes. Eventually they have to sleep because they get so tired. You only need to win once to give you the confidence to perservere. I think it also helps to have faith that you are doing him a favour teaching him to sleep, he must be pretty tired too. I guess my rationale was that I could do an even better job caring for him with sleep under my belt and that gave me the resolve to persist, and yes, it is heart wrenching hearing them get worked up. In the end it worked. He was 4 mths when we started. I can only suggest that you preservere for as long as you are comfortable with it. You know you are good mum, keep telling yourself that. As for the change in behaviour, I thnk they go through those phases anyway - at least many kids I know (including my own) are or have been. You could always try a homeopath if that helps. Cheap and it worked for my little guy. They gave him Coffea to stop the wakefullness at night (homeopathy has the opposite effect as the remedy when given in small doses). Good luck

[mumofmonet&paisley]

Hi,

I have just attended a sleep clinic in Rosebud Victoria, seeing as though paisley can now stand up we were at a loss as to what to do. I found that they emphasized getting bubs into a routine.
7am wake and feed,
8 am breakfast
9:30 to bed in darkened room with sleep associations(teddy and silky blanket)
11.30 up if awake and lunch
12.30 milk feed
2.30 bed in darkened room
4.30 up milk feed
5.30 dinner
6 bath and possibly baby massage
7 pm milk feed
7.30 bed
10.30 roll over feed, get them before they wake up.

paisley still doesn't sleep great but the routine is helping my sanity.

i do half an hour of crying going in after 5,5,10,10 to lay her down and tuck her in. then i stay in there, i sit down next to the cot and hold her down and pat her off to sleep, often when i leave the room she wakes up again, buti leave her for 5 mins before going in to pat off to sleep again, now i can stop patting before she is asleep and just hold. I find that without that half hour of crying she is not ready to give in yet to patting.

at night i go straight in to resettle to avoid waking rest of house. my first daughter used to do the throwing up but paisley manages to dirty her nappy during that half hour of crying every night. I change her in the cot.

before i attended the sleep clinic i was in the same basket as you, all over the place calling every one and trying everything.

out of all this i think that it is the routine that has helped the most. if i feel we are not up to the crying then i just pat her off to sleep in the cot even if it means i sit there for an hour. but i do not give in until she has done the specified time in her cot. oh and sometimes i throw a 2.30 feed in there if i think she hasn't eaten or feed well enough or she may be thirsty. sometimes i leave a bottle of water with in reach too.

i was assured that at 9 months they only really remember 2 weeks ago so if i persist with this routine for 2 weeks she wil forget that i used to pick her up if she cried enough and that i used to put her in our bed to sleep.

sorry to prattle a bit but its good to talk to someone in the same situation. just think our children's determination may be a little bit hard to cope with now but imagine what they are going to accomplish when they are older....

all the best, trust yourself in knowing what is best for you and your child and don't underestimate the power of a routine.

P.S. do you manage to change the sheets in the cot with him in it?
P.P.S. I also found that by spending time playing peekaboo in her cot and spending godd fun time in her room helped aswell.

[mumat46]

Hi all again, thanks for the most recent replies and the private messages.
The routine you do is exactly what we have been on since 7 months.
Except I cut out the 10.30 feed at 9 months.

I now make sure each day that I have 3 cot sheets and protectors on the cot, so when he throws up (which he did last night and all over me even after I thought it had all come up) I can just remove the sheet and protector and soiled blankets. So I have 2 more layers of sheets and protectors on (and have standby blankets).
That helped a lot re too much disturbance.
I haven't found a solution re what to do after a throw up re feeding - he may become hungry but it sets up a pattern of feeding that is another routine that will need to be broken. And yet he will continue to wake if hungry.

Many of the private messages say they did cc but only did 5 and 10 minute waits whereas I was following it strictly. Waiting another week before I start something - either cc or controlled comforting.
Thanks again for the advice.

[mumat46]

Hi all, I have had some emails and private messages about vomitting during cc.
I got this info from a crying workshop I went to.
But few people seem to be able to provide real help here and say they will stop it as they become more sure of you being consistent and so less stressed as they cry less and get to a hysterical state less.
At the workshop when I mentioned it they said it was rare, but during coffee about a quarter of the other mums said their baby did it too but were too embarressed to admit it for fear of being accused of being manipulated by baby.
Maybe some babies do learn to do it on purpose when much older but I know my boy and there is no way he is doing this on purpose. He never does it any other time.

If any of us have been so distressed that we have sobbed uncontrollably you know that deep breathless intake of air that happens between sobs - this is when they chuck.

This is what I do to make it easier but he hasn't stopped but it makes disturbances less during the process.

As well as 3 layers of protectors and sheets on cot for evening, I only put 2 blankets in cot to start with. Then I only have to replace those 2 rather than all blankets in cot. Last night I went through 8 blankets. I have just put him down and only had to replace 2 lots of 2 blankets when he chucked up twice.
I keep a bowl of water and sponge and towel under cot ready to clean up so I don't have to keep going in and out of room for cleaning stuff.

Just use a night light if possible to clean up.

Don't look at baby during cleanup just keep up verbal settling.

Clean baby first and then during cleanup continue to place him down in cot.

I was told to feed him 2 hours before bed time which I did tonight and then gave only 50ml of milk. But it all came up so I don't think that really makes a difference.
He chucks within the first 5 - 10 minutes of putting in the cot.

Anyway - that is what I do and it can only bet better...mmm.
Cheers all.

[Gumnut]

Wow, you are amazing! I can't believe you have gone through all that by yourself...what a champ you are!

A friend of mine did a stay at Ngala and said it was fantastic. She didn't end up having to pay anything because they are on a low income and she has private health insurance.

Anyway, just wanted to say that you sound like you are doing everything right and might just have a very stubborn little boy! My daughter was extremely stubborn when it came to sleep and was a shocking sleeper but at almost 2 she is an angel now with her sleeping and bedtime. Just wanted to say that it really does get better. You just have to find what works for you and him.

Just a few ideas that worked with Emma (but sounds like you have tried them all already and you have a plan now anyway): I only gave her water at night if she woke up (she would get REALLY narky but 2 weeks of hysterics and she finally got the hint!), ignoring it and not going back into the room (was really really hard but was the only way for her, sounds horrible but going back in actually made her worse)...can't think of anymore at the moment but if I do I'll pm you.

Good luck and I really hope you work it out soon.

[JE's Mum]

My DS also used to vomit when we tried a form of control comforting at 8-10 months (we never left the room but just tried to get him to settle down in his own cot but he never would!). He would also get histerical and vomit if we left him in the room at other times, even very brief moments. It seemed to be more of a phase associated with separation anxiety than anything else and it passed on its own after 10-11 months. I don't believe for one minute he was being manipulative. I used to worry about this at the time but in hindsight, the idea seems ridiculous. It is terrible that mums feel they can't admit this to the nurses for fear of being accused of being manipulated by their babies. That attitude of 'spoiling' is so old school it isn't funny. Those nurses should just retire if you ask me!

Anyway, the control comforting thing never worked with our son either. He would get histerical and would never calm down enough for us to leave to room. We have just accepted his bad sleep for now and he has improved since those days of his own accord (actually he seemed to get much better after his first birthday - cold comfort I know). There are plenty of babies where control comforting/crying doesn't work but no one seems to tell you this. Even Richard Ferber has said this.

It sounds like you have given it a read hot go but I hope there is some improvement for you. :hugs:

[kylie80]

Hi If you can go to www.saveoursleep.com.au tizzie hall is a world renowned sleep consultant and you can buy routines for about $10.00 for each age group. she also has a book out which is unreal it goes for about $30.00. keep up the good work.

[mumat46]

Hi all, after saying I was gonna wait a week before I started cc again, fate took a hand and has provided help and a solution (I think).
It is a combination of staying in the room (variation on Ngala patting method) and EFT tapping.

How it came about was a friend visited whilst I was trying to get him down for his day nap. She asked if she could try something and put him in his cot, and "tapped" on the side of his forehead. She told me to just repeat a positive mantra which I just made up from his settling phrases I used. Anyway, he was asleep within 5 minutes. I did it on my own for his afternoon sleep and he was asleep in 5 minutes again. Still a skeptic but I tried it for his night sleep.
I set up a chair next to his cot, dark room, dummy in with more in his cot, usual settling routine and then placed face down in cot. Screaming started and I put hand in through cot slats, started tapping gently on side of forehead, if he got into inaccessible position, I tapped on side of body, under armpit. I did some Internet searching on EFT tapping and got some background on it, including other body tapping sites. Anyway he was asleep in 20 minutes and woke up once at 4.30am.

I am a total skeptic when it comes to this stuff. I am sure the tapping is just the same as patting and the mantra is just the same as voice settling.
It varies from Ngala method in that you stay in room and pat.

I have been doing it 3 days now. Each day sleep he is asleep within a few minutes and nights only take less than 10 minutes now. He still wakes once between 3.30am and 4.30am and I give a bottle and he stays asleep til 7am.
I will update you in a week and tell you how it goes.
to say it is a revolution is an understatement and I am prepared for the dam to break.
Thanks for your continued help.

[SnoozesWithCats]

Woot!!

:yelclap:

here's hoping he keeps it up!

:fingerscrossed:

: goes off to surf the web for "EFT Tapping" :

:D

[Milliner]

Well done mum at 46!!!! We are having the same probs with my 5 month old he has been like this since he was about 1 week ond. I am also off the read about this eft tapping. Hope it keeps working for you!!!!!!
:fingerscrossed:

[catwoman]

hi there,

it sounds to me like CC is not working on this child. you have noticed a change in his personality, from a happy confident baby, into a clinging insecure one.

i would not push the child, if he needs the comfort just give it to him. he will eventually grow out of these needs. but the more insecure he feels the longer it will take.

CC doesnt work for every child. every child is different. we are the ones who have to meet the needs of the child, and not the other way round.

[Motherhoodjoys]

Well done for thouroughly researching and trying several different solutions to the sleeping issue. I really admire the fact that youwant to help your son learn to have healthy sleeping habits. It takes courage to change a challenging situation and you deserve a big hug and congratulations.
As you know every child has their own little personality and one thing you should be happyabout is that your son has a stong , determined nature - not ideal now BUT when he is 13 and being offered a beer ordrugs he will draw on his strong determined nature to say NO!
You are such a loving and wonderful mum to ask for advice toensure you are doing the best you can do for you and your son. Remember that you do what suits you and not what suits every other professional or other mums. Only you can decide the best choices for you.
Take care
Luv Phillipa:smiliedance:

[mumat46]

Hi, well...it has been more than a week now and the problem is nearly solved.
I tried the bed on the floor for a few nights but he just rolled and crawled FOR HOURS so I gave that up cause I just couldn't sleep so I did as described in my last message...I brought his cot into my room and patted him off to sleep. I put my hand through the railings eventually and this was fine and in fact often he would creep over to the side of the cot and watch that I was sleeping too.

A week has gone by and day sleeps are a breeze. He just rolls over as soon as I put him down. At night he cries for under a minute and then goes quiet and watches me. I lay down a few minutes and pat him. Quite often he will not go to sleep but just lay and hum to himself or playfully kick or tap the cot slats. Sometimes he gurgles for 15 minutes.
I don't pick him up out of cot once I have put him in it. Just pat and say "time for bed" every now and again.
I can now leave the room after that few minutes of patting and he still doesn't cry.

At night he is still waking about 10.30pm and 3.30am but doesn't cry. He sits up and just plays a little then usually puts his head down. If he doesn't and plays for 10 minutes or so, I sit up and reach in and put him down and pat and he is off pretty quickly.

The last 2 nights he missed the 3.30am waking. He is waking at 6am.
In about a month I will try moving his cot back to his room and see how we go.
Thanks for all your advice and support.

[Motherhoodjoys]

Wow you have allowed your honest and tough journey over the past months to helpand inspire others. You are now reaping the rewards of your persistance through tough days and nights.
It must feel good to know you have helped your baby establish healthy sleeping habits that will pay off for the rest of his life.
Give yourself a pat on the back and enjoy your good nights sleep.
Take care luv Phillipa:)

[lovingmumof 2now]

I am also a single mum and being a single mum and cc is hard.

I did it with my first and stuck to the rules. But now with my second if she wont go to sleep and screams I just give her a small bottle and off she goes. Just remember do whatever suits you as your sanity is the biggest thing at stake here. The babies all grow up and grow out of their problems.

I think with my first I was so stressed all the time. With my second I just think well crying never killed my first one so I feel more relaxed and therefore so does the baby.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and if you need an ear as a single mum I am here for you.

[Notchalk]

Gee, notice how what worked for this baby was some human contact?

Honestly I don't mean anything against any mothers who try this method (I've tried it once or twice myself, but ended up crying more than it was worth)... but reading what these babies go through to sleep 'through the night' was making ME feel physically sick.

Follow your instincts, not the books. As mothers we generally know what is right or wrong for us and our babies - there is too much pressure! They are babies for such a short time, and our job as parents is to help them, teach them - not make them learn.

I really hope I haven't offended anyone by this post - I don't mean to. I just got this overwhelming sadness reading about these poor little babies vomiting and sobbing because they wanted some comfort.

I'm so glad your baby is sleeping better!

Jo

[mumat46]

Hi, I agree to some degree with yourself NotCHalk and Catwoman but I also think as you'll see from my original few posts, I am single and for the last 10 months I have tried methods that involve lots of human contact and comforting and he wasn't just not sleeping through the night, but waking every few hours. After 10 months of a baby (and myself) only going for 2 -3 hours sleep session; I said I was on the verge of not coping. The methods I had tried just saw us getting worse and worse as he became a more conscious being.
CC does work for some babies and works quickly and well but who is to know which babies that is until you try it? Who is to know what day it is going to kick in and work?

Any criticism, real or implied has just rolled off my back - believe me - it was the least of my worries. And I am happy to wear it if I got some practical advice and I did. I got lots of fabulous encouraging emails that brought tears of gratitude to my eyes - and I really needed them. Those private emails and posts that offered practical options and alternatives and ideas were the most useful...I got quite a few that said stop it and go back to what I was doing - but no useful ideas - but I couldn't go back - I was a walking wreck - barely existing and certainly no longer able to look after myself or my baby.

Maximum comfort means co-sleeping and might work if the baby is between 2 people but just on your own means too much movement.

The other issue of course is trying to follow "expert" advice. I finally got hold of Dr. Green's book which everyone swears by and what is in it? CC where the baby is cuddled at every visit - every other cc expert I have read says this is a big no-no.
A side issue that I have discovered is that so many people give a blanket cc term to the method but vary it immensely (re times, picking up etc) and it sometimes takes a lot of questions to illicit this and not stopping at just saying you used cc successfully.

I still think cc has merits - it has worked easily and well for too many people I have talked to, to not have merit. Conversely I have now spoken to a few people who had a disastrous experience with putting the cot next to their bed and patting. So - as is the usual answer in all of this - every baby is different and so is every parent.

Anyway - last night was terrible and he woke every hour and I patted etc. but he was miserable - so I am hoping it is teething again.
I am still not going back to sleep and sometimes takes me an hour to go back to sleep - not sure why - but I am sure this will get better with time.

So I think this will be my last message for this thread. There are no words for all those of you who took the time to help me. A final word - when you see someone not doing so well (or maybe not following life as you would like it) send them a message or post that builds them up and gives them hope to keep going - cause there will be 10 private messages that try and take them down or make them feel bad about themselves.
And to whoever suggested (I have forgotten) who said to always put the dummy into their hand and not their mouth - you are a legend!
Thanks again all for caring.