View Full Version : ANTI-Controlled Crying
Apparently I originally started this thread in the wrong section yesterday! who knew that the CC section was ONLY for positve posts on the subject!!?
Anyway after reading that thread, thought it about time there was a thread for people, who wish to make comments and offer ideas on the subject, but who are ANTI-controlled crying. So, have copied and pasted that post to here!
I take my stand mainly from the negative research I have seen, regarding this, and also from my own experience as a parent. To be honest, I just couldn't do it - even if I hadn't read all the information!! My 'mothering instinct' [if that is what it is??!] would just not allow it!
I have read extensively since becoming a parent and have found that there is no substitute for one's own 'research' - I soon found that many health professionals [not all mind!] were very unreliable in their advice regarding many things, especially breastfeeding, and babies and the care of!! Sad but true! There has even been research done in Australia that shows that information given by health professionals regarding the subject of babies, is often outdated, incorrect and in some cases even contains some standard 'old wives tales'!
So is it any wonder parents are confused, and crying out for help when it comes to raising their children! but anyway!! on to the subject at hand...
It seems that there are the two main -polarized!- ways to get babies to go to sleep. This is basically how I see the differences -
Self soothing/controlled crying/ controlled comforting etc :-
Baby puts himself to sleep - in his own bed/cot, alone and isolated from the rest of the family. Intermittent comforting is offered by parents - but parents must NOT 'give in' to baby's cries and must not pick baby up!! and parents must not be there when he actually goes to sleep. The baby learns that he has to do this himself and doesn't associate going to sleep with parents or carers. May be tough on baby - but the advantage is that, if and when it works, it will be less tiring for the parents ... in the long run.
The crying can be most stressful for both parents and bub, and risks parents, in the end, being less sensitive to the baby's cries/needs. It overlooks the many reasons for waking/sleep problems and baby can lose trust in the parents.
'Parenting' to sleep:-
Parenting baby to sleep means you feed, cuddle, rock sing etc - basically 'comfort' - a baby to sleep. This way bub learns a healthy 'go-to-sleep attitude', maintains parent-infant trust ... and leaves nice memories! When bub wakes up he may need the same things to be done again. This can be tiring for mum &/or dad, if baby is going through a growth spurt or ill or just not a 'good sleeper' - but the parents remain 'in-tune' with the baby's needs and he remains trusting of his parents and the world - 'knows' that his cry is important and he CAN communicate his needs. Parents just see this as 'part of the job' and do it!
In the words of Dr W Sears - Paediatrician, author, father of 8 and champion of attachment parenting. http://www.askdrsears.com/
"Use discernment about advice that promises a sleep-through-the-night more convenient baby, as these programs involve the risk of creating a distance between you and your baby and undermining the mutual trust between parent and child. On the surface, baby training sounds so liberating, but it's a short-term gain for a long-term loss. You lose the opportunity to get to know and become an expert in your baby. Baby loses the opportunity to build trust in his caregiving environment. You cease to value your own biological cues, your judgment, and instead follow the message of someone who has no biological attachment, nor investment, in your infant."
Hundreds of scientific studies have all told us the same basic things. That how we react to our babies in the early days and months affects that child’s whole life. For good emotional development babies need to be well attached to their carers. This depends directly on how responsive parents are to the baby. Insecure attachment can mean an insecure child/teenager and has serious implications with development of personality into much later life.
We have learned that babies need rapid attention to their needs - consistently - and that we should not leave our babies to cry alone, or to have them wait for comfort.
Research tells us that if a baby is NOT left to cry alone,he will be
# a more contented baby,
# who cries less in the long run,
# who is better equipped to handle the normal pains and
frustrations of life, and
# who becomes a more stable and secure child/adult.
In the words of Dr James McKenna PhD [Has studied babies and their sleep for over 20 years] http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/index.html
"....the industrial western world's accepted model of "normal" and "healthy" infant sleep assumes that it is best for the infant to sleep in isolation with minimal parental intervention. But infants were designed to sleep next to their mothers for night-time breastfeeding, so solitary infant sleep represents a novel, if not alien experience, for which not all infants, we contend, are equally prepared....The human infant is born with only 25 percent of its adult brain volume, is the least neurologically mature primate at birth, develops the most slowly... In our enthusiasm to push for infant independence (a recent cultural value), I sometimes think we forget that the infant’s biology cannot change quite so quickly as can cultural child care patterns."
"it is appropriate for babies to awaken during the night ... In fact, although infants can be conditioned to sleep long and hard alone, and without intervention and, hence, fulfill the cultural expectation that the should sleep through the night, the fact remains that they were not designed to do so, and it may not be either in their best biological or psychological interest."
In Australia there is a professional body called the AAIMHI [The Australian Association for Infant Mental Health] Their position statement, pointing out the negative aspects of controlled crying, can be read at http://www.aaimhi.org/polsSubs.htm
Anyway, I have raved on quite enough! Anyone else feel the same? and have any comments to make etc!?
Hi Mimi
I am a mum of three and yes am one of the many that have attempted controlled crying. My first child (almost seven) never slept and as a result we seeked outside assistance. We tried control crying for 3 nights and every night my daughter would cry to the point of throwing up. We were told to quickly and quietly clean up the mess and continue what we were doing. Well, I won't repeat what I said but the control crying was definately not for us. From this point on my children may take longer than most to go to sleep. Yes I get tired but am happy to know all three of my children, myself and my husband go to sleep with a smile on our faces.
I know fiends that swear by this method and yes I agree with persistance it does work but kids are young for such a short time I am more than happy to have happy, healthy and content children without putting them through this traumatic experience whether for one, two, or several nights.
our little treasures
17-06-2005, 09:44
I don't agree with controlled crying either, after three mnths of being told that we were doing the wrong thing in rocking and singing I was sent to the sleep centre for a day stay. I couldn't handle it, even though dd went to sleep in 20mins each time I was unable to cope with seeing my child in so much distress. I cried each time. When I got out of there we went to mil and while there dd started screaming and wouldn't stop I was that stressed and confused on what to do I went off at my hubby and told him we had to go. From that day to the next couple my dd started to cry and scream until she vomited for no reason she was that unsettled, I would ring my dh and cry while my dd was screaming in her cot because I felt horrible and couldn't handle it. After that day I decided enough was enough and I picked her up and held her and promised that I wouldn't do it again.
So here we are 16mnths later and we get dd to sleep by laying in the bed and holding her in our arms and we say snuggle buggle within 5mins she is out, no crying screaming or tantrums. DD also slept with us and recently we put her in her own bed (I worried she would miss us) dd sleeps perfectly and early morning she climbs out of bed and comes to us.
I actually watched the nanny special with oprah, and I was distressed with the way she make the mum sit in the room but not look or comfort her crying child. I think this would be one of the most disgusting methods of cc I have seen. The child and mother would be scarred by this and to watch the mum cry it was just horrible.
I'm preggars with #2 and if they need as much love and affection I will be happy to do so.
Hi angelbaby8
I feel so sorry for mums who feel they have to conform and use this horrible method - as you found, it just goes COMPLETELY against what all our instincts are telling us, doesn't it!? Though I don't think we can 'just wing it' when it comes to baby rearing -there is so much that good research can tell us about baby feeding etc - I think trusting our inner most feelings when it comes to baby's needs is something that really needs to be encouraged.
Congratulations for having the strength to 'go against the grain' and trust yourself! I am sure you and your family are MUCH happier for that!
Mattiesmum
22-06-2005, 13:28
hi,
I too was anti controlled crying (and still am) and went to Mattie sometimes 5-6 times a night for month after month However recently I was unwell so it took me just a little longer than normal to get to his room...just long enough for him to fall back asleep without me!! ( approx 3 mins)
When I got better I decided I would leave it for 3 mins everytime and if he was still awake I would go in as normal and help him back to sleep. Ever since its been only one to two wakings a night and under 3 mins each time, so I haven't needed to appear and we've all slept till about 4-5am whereupon I give him a breastfeed and we all sleep for a few more hours.
Matt is nearly 10 months old so I would suggest that he was ready and able to handle a slight delay in Mummy coming without getting unduly distressed and managed to drop off to nigh nigh on his own. I guess the 3 mins delay is "technically" leaving to cry but honestly if I go in now he looks at me as if to say "what are you doing here, I can handle this mummy"! His crying just seems to be his way of drifting off, its not"serious" sounding and not distressing to him or me.
Sooo after all that, my advice to mothers with younger babies is: stick to your guns don't leave them to cry. I'm sure it's because I didn't that I've got a boy who is confident enough to now go to sleep on his own. When they are 10 months to one year however, perhaps just slightly delay your appearance and just see their reaction you might be pleasantly surprised ;) ! Lots of luck and love
Mattiesmum
StormAngel
22-06-2005, 13:47
Hi Mimi
I was very anti CC with my older children and battled through for a long time to settle them to sleep.
But all babies are different.
I used CC on my 4th baby, when everything else had failed and so was my health to a certain extent.
I didn't like doing it but it worked and only took 3 days.
While i was doing it MY INSTINCTS told me that my baby was fine, obviously according to you, they are not motherly ones.
You seem to be a very opinionated person!
Perhaps you should try trusting your own instincts insted of the "RESEARCH" you seem to be flouting around the forums
Don't get me wrong i'm still Anti CC, but i think that those who are Pro CC should be able to mother their babies without people like you making them feel bad!
harry's mum
22-06-2005, 15:15
Hi Jo
From what I've read briefly here, Mimi took up this conversation in another thread and immediately upon realising that she was in the 'wrong section', proposed a new thread. I think that's being quite respectful of those who might have a different opinion, don't you think?
I have to say I am continually saddened (and amazed) that mothers who 'feel guilty' whether it's for bottle feeding, or having a caesarian, or using controlled crying, are forever crying foul when anyone posts information that contradicts those things because they are SO offended (when I don't really think anyone ever means to cause offence!) yet they think it is quite ok to launch into personal, aggressive and sometimes quite vicious attacks on the poor person who dared to post the 'offensive' information.
A bit of a double standard, in my opinion.
Hi Mimi!
Thanks for all your information!
As this is no cry sleeping solutions section,I'm sure your aim was to give mums other opptions rather then make them feel like bad mums for useing CC.
We do live in the information age, and for sure I'm not a big reader of parenting books mostly I pesonally think they are total crap.
But I must say Dr Sears web site was such a help to me in the early days.
Then the Natural parenting web site great as well.
Sometimes these day I pick up a copy of Byron Child.
I may not read that much but I do trust my own instinct and to me leaving a baby to cry by their self in a dark room isn't what I would want If I was a baby.
Needless to say If I was a baby I would like to be breastfeed to sleep in mums bed....If that didn't work sling me, rock me to sleep in your arms, I would want my mum to help me to go to sleep until that day I choose when I was ready to do it my self never before that day.
Cheers Malin
Mimi - thanks for all the info and links, I completely agree with everything you have posted, my ds is a complete booby boy, he still feeds to sleep at 15 months, and sleeps with me, and snacks during the night as well.
I feel so liberated being able to do what I know in my heart is right, and not worrying about what most mainstream people have to say on the subject.
If more people did more research, I think they would quite probably have their eyes opened to a lot of myths which are circulated.
Angie
Hi Harry's mum, Malin & Angie
Thanks for your posts. After a very hectic day at the bub hub yesterday :eek: , it is good to read your positive and friendly comments!!
Harry's mum - I agree. I think it is difficult to get good information to people AFTER they have chosen their 'path' ... but I suppose it is very disturbing to hear that what you have chosen may not be the best way to do things, when all you really want is the very best for your children! I know - it doesn't forgive the way 'the messenger' can be so visciously attacked :confused: but does explain some of the emotion behind it, I suppose.
Malin - Isn't Dr Sears great? - all 3 of them now of course! I first found Dr S. [and his wife Martha!] when I read 'The Baby Book'. Still a very good book, and has been updated and republished...if you ever get the urge!!
Angie - Yes, I think with so much good information available to us, it is a pity more of it isn't used to influence the way we parent. Apparently more health workers are being educated about attachment parenting these days - and there are even 'safe sleeping' pamphlets now that encourage co-sleeping ... so lets hope things are changing for the better!
Cheers all :)
I think that it is really important to share as much information as possible about the different options that parents have, whether it be in relation to sleeping, feeding, or other parenting issues. I agree that an increase in information about attachment parenting can only be a good thing. I do, however, think that we all need to be careful about using judgemental and emotive terms when we are sharing the information.
As we all know, being a mother brings with it a huge amount of guilt - we question every decision we make and anguish over the smallest things. While some parents are not well informed, others are, and still make decisions to use various forms of parenting which suit their families, like controlled crying. I guess what I am saying is that while I applaud providing options other than controlled crying, please don't judge those of us who have used it when we feel we have exhausted all other options.
And remember that some of us are still relying on our instincts when we do it - for example, I know the different crying sounds of my daughters, and if they are distressed they get comforted. If they are just tired and need to sleep, then a few minutes crying as they settle into their beds is not going to upset them as much as me flitting in and out of their rooms. I also made the choice that controlled crying worked for nights but daytime sleeps always involve lying down with mummy on the bed for cuddles. I suppose I am defending myself as a parent who uses controlled crying, but I also want to make the point that it is not all cut and dried - many of us take what we need from the various different styles of parenting out there and fit them to our children's needs (eg I am a sling wearer and breast feeding advocate). So maybe be careful about using emotive terms like "horrible" and "disgusting" when tired weary parents are already feeling a bit under seige?!
A final point to make is that just because the author of a book is a doctor, doesn't mean that they are right - another doctor (Dr Richard Ferber) is well known for advocating CC after 20 years working with families needing sleep solutions. I don't know if any of them are right, but I think they all offer ideas that we can take to help ourselves get through this maze of parenting.
As an aside- I have never watched an episode of the supernanny as I just don't want to see children whose lives are being invaded not only by this strange woman, but also by a TV crew! How invasive and upsetting would that be for your child???
Hi Theresa
I agree with you about the careful use of words when talking about ANYTHING to do with parenting! It seems that it doesn't matter how we parent, there is always a measure of guilt there somewhere [I know for me there is!].
I also agree wholeheartedly that merely having a title doesn't mean that your information is correct [as I said in my first post!]. This is why I think it very important for every parent to make a concerted effort to seek out their own information - to the best of their ability - BEFORE they have kids! After all, we know there is little time once they are on th scene, to go searching for answers! There are so MANY books out there by so called experts, that it is often very confusing and it takes time to sift through and find what is actually 'proven' and not just someone's 'idea' they have made to work. [eg. 'Sleep Experts' who's only experience is to work with babies to make them sleep a certain way, with no real research before or after]
I think this is where good research can give us answers. I would be most inclined to trust someone like James McKenna, http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/index.html because his research often involves OBSERVING mothers and babies sleeping - to ascertain what is 'normal' - not trying to override 'normal' with his own idea of what should be happening!
And on the Super Nanny, well I have only ever seen one episode, and I don't think I could bring myself to watch it again!! Like you say, invasive and upsetting indeed!
:)
Briannabear
23-06-2005, 10:49
I agree with everything you said Theresa! :D I also tend to just follow my instincts with my daughter. I also find that there's a big difference between her cries. She has a tired cry, hungry cry, attention cry etc. They are all really distinguishable so I tend pay attention to that, and go with the flow. If I fuss over her when she is having her tired cry it makes her worse. (I figure thats probably fair enough... I dont really like to be interupted, or have my personal space invaded when Im overtired either!! LOL!). With that said, I dont exactly leave her crying for ages either. If her crying settles down, I leave her.
There are strong professional and medical views for both sides of CC; as there is with every other parenting debate.
I think most parents make an educated decision on how to raise and parent their children, so we should be accepting of that. :)
Hello again.
Not every pregnant woman feel that way, the urge to know what is front of them.
Some just really, really enjoy the feeling of being pregnant...
I personally don't think an educated attachment parent will be better parent at all, if she would only breastfeed because is best and she would hate every minute of it.
I think being an attachment parent is about wanting to do this way in our hearts.
I'm not saying at the same time a well educated attachment parent would not be great it just that not every one have that need to live in other peoples foot steps..
To me life is not that simple to read that manual and live there after because someone else said so.
We are all different! I personally like do things my way, how I parent is by my childhood memories the good and the bad, I like to put myself in my son shoes to think how would I feel in that situation if I was you and so on.
So the ability to think for your self is just as good as being educated to me anyway......
Peace and Love to all mother out there
Malin
draught: And remember that some of us are still relying on our instincts when we do it - for example, I know the different crying sounds of my daughters, and if they are distressed they get comforted. If they are just tired and need to sleep, then a few minutes crying as they settle into their beds is not going to upset them as much as me flitting in and out of their rooms. I also made the choice that controlled crying worked for nights but daytime sleeps always involve lying down with mummy on the bed for cuddles. I suppose I am defending myself as a parent who uses controlled crying, but I also want to make the point that it is not all cut and dried - many of us take what we need from the various different styles of parenting out there and fit them to our children's needs (eg I am a sling wearer and breast feeding advocate). So maybe be careful about using emotive terms like "horrible" and "disgusting" when tired weary parents are already feeling a bit under seige?!
Yes! Excellent point!
Also I agree about many parents use a variety of techniques and this is using our motherly instincts. Just like adults respond to different things, so do children. I am a keen breastfeeding advocate but I am not an attached parent, but I have used some of the attached parenting techniques. I have also used mainstream techniques. I am a big reader of a variety of parenting information and a sponge for all this sort of thing. I love it. I am a keen observer and I believe that I am quite well researched and educated. I talk to other mothers, find out what works for them and perhaps give a technique a go if the situation presents itself. We have found for us that we use a variety of parenting techniques, and I don't see why parenting has to be categorised. We just apply what works for our kids and what does not. Kids do not fit into boxes, so why should our parenting techniques of them have to fit a certain crietria or a text book or a box? We need to be flexible as they are changing and growing little humans. Just as they grow we grow.
CC does indeed use instincts and I am glad someone pointed out the differences in crying. You can read your child's cries. You know what is a whinge and what is distressed. You respond to them using your instincts.
I think that there is why to much judgment with this technique and a lot of misconceptions about it. Every child responds to it differently and every parent responds differently. I get quite upset when I see people being criticised for using the technique, when they are trying so hard to improve their household that is sleep deprived and miserable. I just think, give the parent a break and let them try it if it could be something that is going to work. :)
Hi Malin
I think you are a very lucky ... or maybe that is a very STRONG woman! ... to be able to follow your heart like that! :)
The reason I think research is so helpful to us these days, is that IMO, we have had a few generatons of 'forgetting' how to parent from the heart. AND you know how it is to be a new mother and have to contend with all that 'interesting' advice :rolleyes:
well-meaning friends and rels have to offer!! :eek: You know the stuff ....
"Are you STILL breastfeeding?"
"That baby should be sleeping through by now"
"He needs to be on solid food!"
"Crying is good for their lungs"
"You can't keep carrying her - she will never learn to walk!"
"You're spoiling that boy - he'll turn into a sook!" :mad:
You get my drift - and what I mean by being strong! That's why I think it is so helpful to have good evidence that doing as you are, and respecting the child and his needs, is the RIGHT thing to do!
Happy instinctive parenting to you!
alicesmum
23-06-2005, 18:38
as a researcher, i agree with the point about research!!
above all though, i think you have to drop all the opinions you get from others and act appropriately given the situation and its many variables. parenting is a complex business! and when you do (inevitably) find yourself in a situation where you aren't sure what's best, evidence-based recommendations are definitely much better than hearsay. I agree with that. The hard part is ignoring all the rhetoric out there. just listen to your baby and your own body. and trust that. that's the MOST important thing to do. :p
Hi All again
I had to cut my post short last night - darn it all but doesn't life just get in the way sometimes!! :D.
Becca & Milly, and [Theresa again!] I am glad that someone mentioned the 6 month mark - because I did understand that even those who advocated CC, said not to do it before 6 months - though I know it is taught to mums with much younger babies.
I am thinking that because the CC was brief and pretty 'painless' for you, it was a good solution ... and as you say it is not like you do it every night! No doubt, following your instincts, in that, if it DID go on and on, you would stop and 're-think' the whole thing! The problem I find is that CC is explained as something you must do a certain way and you 'can't give in' etc. This leads to stories I have heard, both first hand and on forum, about parents continuing to try this technique night after night for WEEKS! even if it is taking an hour or longer - with the intermittent comfortings - for baby to settle, and the night wakings are continuing. The advice is then [from the 'experts'] to simply persist - and I know the mum's instincts are telling her not to!
As Milly said, all babies are different, and some are just easier to settle than others. Some just seem to have a greater fear of being alone etc. This is exactly where 'attachment parenting' comes into it's own - in that it advocates attention to the value of a baby's cry, and maintaining the trusting bond between mother and baby, and he knows that you will know when something is wrong and you will always be there to protect.
AND, though how other people parent should be none of my business LOL, I can't help feeling for the babies [as all mothers do I expect!] but so long as mothers are following their instincts and give value to a baby's cry - as you all explained you do! - then I don't have a problem with that!!
:)
Hi Mimi!
mimi: I am thinking that because the CC was brief and pretty 'painless' for you, it was a good solution ... and as you say it is not like you do it every night! No doubt, following your instincts, in that, if it DID go on and on, you would stop and 're-think' the whole thing!
Absolutely :)
I think the reason I get so upset about the perceptions on CC is that there does tend to be a common misunderstanding out there that parents let their children cry for hours on end and do not attend to them. Some may do that, but the ones I know, including myself, who have used it successfully do not and have done it with an older baby, been able to read their cries very clearly, respond to them accordingly (checking at short intervals and staying close to the room etc), and then only done it for 2-3 nights for a set time (say,we'll give it 20 mins tonight, and 30 mins tomorrow etc) and as a once off thing. If it did not work this way they would have known to stop and not persist with the technique and find an alternative. If the kid was so clearly distressed you would not pesevere with the technique. Perhaps that is where there needs to be clearer information about how to successfully use the technique in the best interest of the child and the parents so that parents do not go about it the way you have described it.
We have a happy, affectionate and well rested child. She is a bundle of energy and has quite a reputation for her big cheeky grins. We would never do anything to upset that.
I think any parenting technique comes down to common sense, reading the signs (crying, behaviour etc) and taking the appropriate action.
:)
Milly
You have just written down the thoughts I have been mulling over for the last few hours. It is a great continuation of the post I made yesterday, and highlights that we need to share information so that other parents can make informed choices.
I feel that coming out and saying that controlled crying is "horrible" and "disgusting" and expressing pity for mothers who feel the need to "conform" does not provide constructive help or support to parents who need to know that there are options to improve their lives and those of their babies. I don't know anyone who has made the decision to use controlled crying lightly - and like you I don't know anyone who has let their child cry on in distress night after night. Everyone I know who has used CC has either given up on the first day, deciding it was not right for them, or has had success in changing their baby's sleeping habits within 2 or 3 days.
I think we need to remember that what works for one family does not always work for another. If you are happy getting up several times a night to comfort and re-settle your child, that is great for you and works for your family. If you cannot cope with broken sleep and it is affecting your ability to parent during the day, then you need to know that there are options out there, without people judging you for "conforming" (although I am not sure when conforming became a dirty word).
Sharing information is still the best option, but let's not judge others who make different choices to ours. If we are strident in our criticism of a parenting option we may cut off a valid option for a parent who needs help, so to present a balanced view is a more constructive option in my very humble opinion!
Theresa
I think 'conforming' became a 'dirty word' to me when I realised that so often when mums were comparing notes on their babies' sleep [or not!], it seemed to quickly turn into a competition about who's baby slept the best!:confused:
It is even worse when you hear health workers insinuating that if a baby of 'X' age is not sleeping 'Y' amount, then the mum must be doing something wrong! I have even heard the comment [albeit 'jokingly'] that a mum, who was not willing to have her infant sleep in another room, and did not want to leave him cry, had serious 'attachment issues' and was suffering 'separation anxiety'.
It is these kinds of ideas and hurtful comments that sometimes make a mum - especially a new mum - feel she has to 'conform' to this pattern of separating from her baby, and insisting that he sleep in a certain place for a certain time ... because her mothering ability is in question if she doesn't!
I would be most unwilling to label myself as 'alternative', but sometimes I feel like I am when it comes to comparing notes on parenting. The fact that I co-sleep and breastfeed to sleep, and I am not willing to do otherwise, is often met with incredulity ... but I am so pleased that, at least in this case, I don't 'conform! :)
Briannabear
24-06-2005, 14:30
I think the main thing here is to follow your heart!
At the end of the day, the mother knows whats best for her baby!
You cant let anyone make you feel bad or guilty for what you do with your bubba. (Just the same - we shouldnt judge anyone elses way of doing things... not that Im saying anyone is...). :o
If your child is happy, well fed and healthy, and you are happy also (very important!), then you are doing something right!!
If we, as mothers, are calm and happy - so will our babies be!! :D
Cheers to good parenting!! :)
Mattiesmum
24-06-2005, 22:02
Hi Everyone,
I forgot to say in my last post that I found two books really helpful "Three in a Bed " by Deborah Jackson and "The no cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. Having said that though I got to the stage where I just had to stop reading books because it was interfering with my "instincts" and making me approach the whole experience far too seriously. I really needed to lighten up! I'm the Mum who posted the reply saying I left Matt to cry for 3 mins due to being slow on my feet one night ( the flu!) and got the surprise of my life when after a short "winding down" cry he drifted back to sleep! Maybe when I was rushing in and offering him booby all those times he just didn't want to offend me by knocking back a drink , lol !!!!
Now I make it a point to listen to what he's trying to tell me rather than rushing to "label" it. I'm finding everything so much easier since I listened to my heart and not "experts" even the ones who agreed with me! Its also important to relax and not get too fired up about any philosophy because you have to be prepared to change as your child changes and experiment with new things etc. My mantra now is to "be present" with him and love, laugh, giggle and hug as much as I can and impart to him that life isn't all that serious, it can be so much fun. OK Mum mighn't be perfect but he knows he's completely loved and that comes through when I read all your posts. I think your all fabulous mummys!
cheers
Mattiesmum
Thanks Mattie's mum - especially about the 'fabulous mummys'!
Aren't we just, though!!? ;) [Mattie's mum included, of course!]
Hi Matties Mum!
You are ever so right about what you said!
I have felt the same so many times that I had to walk away from playgroups, people and books sometimes they just influenced my thoughts to much...
I think some mum get as sensitive as there children sometimes when in come to different influences, sometimes it can be good you do learn a lot, sometimes it can make you very unsure about everything.
No matter what in the end as you said better to lighten up and just have fun...
I must say my Mum is a super mum she co slept with us when we were children, and she has a very deep connection with us kids, and we had so much fun when we were kids the whole family play lots of games together..
I guess coming from such a happy childhood helps a lot...What you said is so important...
I'm blessed with a super husband, he can turn most things to fun games....
Walk on the bright side of life do du do du du du du du....
Cheers Malin
pregasaurus
26-06-2005, 00:56
I tried controlled crying with my first, but found the experience so heart wrenching I couldn't do it. My DS was born, hopped on the boob, and hopped off about 2 1/2 years later! I used to do what I called 'rotisserie feeding'. He and I slept in a bed together, me with a shirt off so he could feed, and he would only hop off one side to pop onto the other. By 6 months old he was attaching himself, so I got a full nights sleep.
I realise that this approach would not work for everyone, and while it saved my sanity it would certainly lose it for others. I just couldn't replace the feeling of waking up refreshed, with my beautiful baby snuggled up to me in my arms and be greeted with a gummy smile around a mouth full of 'boobie'.
Both my kids have grown into lovely sleepers (DD, now 6, puts herself to bed most nights), and I don't regret a single second of the wonderful closeness and bonding we shared. They're babies for such a very, very short time, and you can never love, kiss or cuddle your children too much. Imagine being a baby, wrapped up in mummy's loving arms, warm and secure, knowing that you were safe, being rocked/sung to/breastfed/ to sleep? Or imagine sitting in a dark room by yourself, crying for mummy and getting nothing in return?
Pregasaurus!
Your description of 'rotisserie feeding' sounds just like my DD ... from birth! She is almost 2 1/2 yrs now and still occasionally wakes in the night for a feed! I agree they are only children for such a short time and I too want to cherish these years - but apart from that, I don't think I could have survived DD and her frequent wakings and frequent feedings of the first year ... or two! :D ... if I DIDN'T co-sleep and breastfeed her off to sleep every time ... makes for a much better rested mummy doesn't it!?
All the best with 'pumpkin' :) !
Hi,
My 10 month old baby girl does not sleep through the night and never has (although before 4 months of age she slept much better). Since birth she has co-slept with my partner and I and breastfed on demand. She wakes continuously through out the night for a feed- this is now very much a habit. I am wanting to encourage her to sleep through the night now that she is 10 months old ( I have heard this is when they have the neurological connections to go to sleep). I have been toying with the idea of not offering her feeds at night. I know this will not go down well with her. I am very anti- controlled crying, and am wanting to know of any better alternative methods for doing this.
The usual answers i get is- let her cry or give her a bottle of water- unfortunitly amali does not take the bottle and I am not comfortable about leaving her to cry. I was thinking about just wearing a couple of tops so she could not get to the boob and then give her lots of hhugs. However it has been suggested to me that a)perhaps ignoring her would be kinder in the long run as any reaction to her crying will encourage her to cry for longer and B) I should start putting her in a cot as she may associate sleeping with breast feeding.
I have also been questioning whether or not co-sleeping was such a good idea. I am worried that i am impeding her independence- however then I think that this is rediculous thinking because she is only 10 months old and I don't know wh yeveryone is so caught up in 'teaching' your child independence. Should this not be a natural occurrance. When is the right time for co-sleeping to end?
I thought i would put these questions out there in the hope that like minded parents may be able to help.
thanks
Hi Laural
My own thoughts that keeping babies close for as long as possible makes for more independent children is now coming true for us. My DD - mentioned long ago(!) in previous posts- co-slept, breastfed to sleep (and on demand), progressed to a mattress beside our bed, waking sometimes in the night to crawl into our bed (still breastfed to sleep until 3 and a half years of age). She is now 5 years old and for the last year she has been insisting that she sleep in her own bed in her own room! And also says to us 'please don't come in while I go to sleep' :(
She still very occasionally wakes in the early hours of the morning and creeps into our bed but is making it known that she wants to 'be a big girl' and sleep on her own.
I would suggest that you can only be doing a good thing by allowing your bub to have this time of closeness and security. 10 months is exactly as you say 'very young' and believe me this time is gone before you know it!!
Continue what you're doing while you are both enjoying it - and please don't worry that you are impeding her indepedance - you are in fact doing quite the opposite!
If the links are still in my initial posts please read those and I'm sure they will make you feel better about what you are doing! :yes:
Cheers
Mimi
Thanks very much for that Mimi,
I think that was exactly what i needed to hear. Sometimes when everyone around you is doubting your parenting you begin to doubt it yourself. It is very reassuring to know that your daughter is now an independant and happy child. I will keep in touch to let you know how things progress.
Laura:)
Thansk
Ange&Seth
02-07-2008, 19:51
Hi Jo
From what I've read briefly here, Mimi took up this conversation in another thread and immediately upon realising that she was in the 'wrong section', proposed a new thread. I think that's being quite respectful of those who might have a different opinion, don't you think?
I have to say I am continually saddened (and amazed) that mothers who 'feel guilty' whether it's for bottle feeding, or having a caesarian, or using controlled crying, are forever crying foul when anyone posts information that contradicts those things because they are SO offended (when I don't really think anyone ever means to cause offence!) yet they think it is quite ok to launch into personal, aggressive and sometimes quite vicious attacks on the poor person who dared to post the 'offensive' information.
A bit of a double standard, in my opinion.
Just wanted to say that I don't feel one bit guilty for bottle feeding or control comforting my child, but I do get offended when someone infers that because I control comforted my child I don't have 'natural mothers instinct'. It's actually the opposite - rather than lack of natural instinct, I think it means that I am intune to my child's needs and can interpret his cries :D
But I realise that this is the ANTI-CC thread, and I'm not really wanted here :o but I just wanted to comment on that. I believe that everyone does what they feel is best for their kids and that every child is different.
I won't automatically use control comforting on my next child but if that's what my bub needs then so be it - I'll let the child guide me in it :yes:
Ange&Seth
02-07-2008, 19:55
Now I make it a point to listen to what he's trying to tell me rather than rushing to "label" it. I'm finding everything so much easier since I listened to my heart and not "experts" even the ones who agreed with me! Its also important to relax and not get too fired up about any philosophy because you have to be prepared to change as your child changes and experiment with new things etc. My mantra now is to "be present" with him and love, laugh, giggle and hug as much as I can and impart to him that life isn't all that serious, it can be so much fun.
:yelclap::yelclap::yelclap: Well said chic :thumbsup:
shellmabell
06-07-2008, 09:43
Hi Ladies...
What an interesting discussion! I could go on and on about some of the notable points brought up in this thread, but I feel the most important one mentioned by a few of you is that we mothers just have to relax. Stop trying to be super women. Who cares if the house isn't spotless, if the ironing isn't done, if we haven't got trim, taut post-baby bodies? We place far too many expectations on ourselves partly due to our wealth/beauty/success-obsessed culture and instead of enjoying the short-lived infancy stage, we want to "teach" our babies independance so that we can get on with our own lives!
I am speaking from experience here, because I was a little uptight with my first child (DD, now 4) because I expected her to sleep through the night from a young age, and be able to settle herself etc. But she never did and it frustrated the hell out of me. I felt guilty feeding her to sleep, cuddling her in my arms and letting her sleep in my bed even though it was the only way I would get any rest. I became miserable, my marriage suffered, and I vowed to never have any more children.
Anyway... a couple of years later I must have forgot how hard it was with DD because I fell pregnant with DS. Unfortunately my marriage had pretty well crumbled by then and we seperated when I was 7 months pregnant. I knew I wouldn't survive on my own with a newborn if I kept the same attitude I had with DD so from the moment he was born, he slept in my bed, he got lots of cuddles, he fell asleep in my arms and he got fed whenever he wanted it. I relaxed, enjoyed it and now I have the sweetest, happiest little boy and I adore every second I spend with him. People who knew how I was with DD comment on how much more relaxed and happy both me and my DS are.
And because he is so content my DS sleeps well during the day so I still get time to do the house work :)
lochiebearsmum
11-07-2008, 20:26
Hi Mimi
I have been put down about patting my child to sleep and singing you are my sunshine as people say he will never learn to put himself to sleep.... I dont mind though i'll be happy patting his little bottom when he is 18 if thats what he likes:)
I am going to print your page and show it to the next person that tells me to let him cry
I am with you as a mum i cannot ignore the cries of my child.... excellent thread!:yelclap:
Phyllis Stein
11-07-2008, 20:30
I dont mind though i'll be happy patting his little bottom when he is 18 if thats what he likes:)
Not such a little bottom by then, huh? :laughing::laughing:
Hi Mimi
I have been put down about patting my child to sleep and singing you are my sunshine as people say he will never learn to put himself to sleep.... I dont mind though i'll be happy patting his little bottom when he is 18 if thats what he likes:)
I am going to print your page and show it to the next person that tells me to let him cry
I am with you as a mum i cannot ignore the cries of my child.... excellent thread!:yelclap:
Cheers, lochiebearsmum!
:hugs:
cinnamonbear
12-07-2008, 22:11
i felt alot of pressure on me in the early days to do cc..dispite what my mothers instinct was telling me to do.. i gave it ago
my dd scream and cryed..mummy stressed and got weepy herself.. she fell asleep from sheer exhaustion..only to wake crying.. my grandfather got he out of bed and went to hand her back to me and she cryed even harder and wouldnt go back to me!
it was like i had lts her trust liek i had let her down she was upset about what i did and didnt understand it
i refuse to ever do that again!
i still feel the ocasional pressure from pro cc people..but i just tell tehm i dont believe in it it does not work for my dd and it does not work for myself!
Hi there,
I read somewhere (think it was Dr Sears that I borrowed from my ABA library) that why should we stop being parents at nighttime?
I never left my daughter to cry, I fed her to sleep until she didn't want to any more, and I gradually "weaned" her from needing my presence to go to sleep using the No Cry Sleep Solution for toddlers. It took about 8 weeks but not one tear - and she started sleeping through regularly at 15 months.
In fact I almost miss those warm sleepy times, sitting in her room while she went to sleep! And I still love being with her for her bedtime routine. It's nice to have it as something she looks forward to rather than dreads.
Good luck and warm wishes to all the mummies parenting to sleep!
madlaina
04-08-2008, 19:58
Hi Ladies
Firstly I'd like to say that I'm neither contra nor pro controlled comforting. Maybe my comments are not wanted in this particular thread, but I just wanted to state that I'm saddened at how vicious these discussions often turn (although I have to say this thread stayed very civil overall).
CC'in is not always a 'choice'. In our case, I was dead against it when DS was born. I found the thought of it horrifying, so I understand how a lot of you feel about it. However, DS was very unsettled. We did the rocking, patting, singing, slinging, feeding to sleep, co-sleeping. The last one never worked for us, DS would just cry. Feeding to sleep stopped working when DS was only a few weeks old. He was a terrible sleeper during the day and would often cry for hours because he was so exhausted - I can tell you there is nothing rewarding about having a crying baby strapped to your chest for hours every day. By the time evening came around he would be so exhausted that he was completely unable to go to sleep. When DS was 4.5 months old it was so bad that I or DP would go driving for 1.5+ hrs almost every afternoon just to get some sleep out of DS. In the evening DP would spend 1+ hrs with DS in his room patting, shushing, whatever, with DS screaming hysterically before eventually passing out. We were mentally and physically at our end (both on anti depressants by this stage) when we went to sleep school for 5 days. DS was a changed baby within 2 days and resorting to cc saved our sanity and our relationship as a family.
So please show some understanding for parents who, despite knowing all the research and wanting the best for their children, feel that in their particular circumstances resorting to CC is actually the kinder option.
Thank you madlaina. I was in pretty much a similar situation.
I actually think sleep deprivation in babies is highly destructive and very bad for them. My boy refused, absolutely refused, to sleep for any period of time! I mean, I was lucky if he would sleep for 10 minutes at a time. He was very grumpy, upset, and just out of control.
When both me and DS were at our wits end, I let him go to sleep on his own "CC" if you could call it and within days, he was happy, healthy and developed a heck of a lot quicker.
I was still a parent, I listened to him, made sure he was okay, changed his nappies, fed him when needed and all the rest, I just let him sleep on his own without fussing over him all night!
Each to their own.
Thank you madlaina. I was in pretty much a similar situation.
I actually think sleep deprivation in babies is highly destructive and very bad for them. My boy refused, absolutely refused, to sleep for any period of time! I mean, I was lucky if he would sleep for 10 minutes at a time. He was very grumpy, upset, and just out of control.
When both me and DS were at our wits end, I let him go to sleep on his own "CC" if you could call it and within days, he was happy, healthy and developed a heck of a lot quicker.
I was still a parent, I listened to him, made sure he was okay, changed his nappies, fed him when needed and all the rest, I just let him sleep on his own without fussing over him all night!
Each to their own.
After having a premmie I was pretty much forced into the same situation. DD doesn't like being held to go to sleep (maybe sometimes but so rare I'm gratified she lets me). So I'm in the same boat...she used her own CC and I had to let her. Everyone tells me how lucky I am to have such a happy easy going little girl. She made it easy.
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