View Full Version : Help!!! is my 9wk old normal?
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 15:22
I'm going out of my mind! :hair:
My dd has is being treated for severe reflux, so i have always blamed her crying on that. How ever lately, i'm beginning to think there might be another reason.:confused:
I cannot leave the house without her screaming to the point where she loses her voice and struggles to breathe. She does this in the car, in the pram & in the baby bjorn carrier.
It gets worse when we get home. She will then cry and be unsettled for the rest of the day/evening- unable to sleep and needing to be held whilst walking around.
I'm exhausted and it gets to the point where i feel as though i have nothing left to give.
I can't help but feel that i've done something wrong to create such an unhappy baby.:shame:
I absolutely adored being pregnant, was relaxed and gave up all the food i was supposed to. I did everything right!!
Why is she like this?
I've worked with children for years and have never dealt with a child like mine.
Will she grow out of it? Is it medical or is it her personality?:mad:
I've always believed in nurture vs. nature, but now i'm wondering if she's gotten more than just her dads looks!!:laughing:
I just don't know what to do.
MountainGirl
03-09-2008, 15:28
:hugs: hugs to you,.... it can be difficult,....
Just a quick question,.. do you feed on demand? Is she settled during feeds? What makes you think she has reflux? Is she any more settled since commencing reflux treatment?
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 15:55
Hi S_J_R,
dd was born tongue-tied :p so was form fed in hosp before being snipped. She was then breastfed until rejecting me 4wks ago. Worked out this was all part of the reflux and her feeding position. At each feed i offer boob until she throws herself off crying, she then gets form.
She has all symptoms&signs of reflux. ie. copious amounts of posseting, coughing, choking, sneezing, chewing on curds, severe pain, back arching etc.
She is on Zantac plus we do all the practical stuff like holding her upright for 10mins after feed& elevating bed. Tried thickened form but she then stopped feeding for 14hrs.
Dosage has just been upped, and i see that she vomits less and is bf for longer.
:hugs:I know what its like to have a child that crys ALL the time.
I would take her back to the Dr and if they havn't already test for a uti as well as lactose intolerance and cow milk proten allery.
There are also other types of reflux medication which may help if all the crying is from the reflux.
Don't blame yourself some babies are just more difficult then others
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 16:34
Oh thankyou Rell, you just reminded me! :o
My G.P gave me the little containers to get a urine sample, but so much happened with Casualty and Paediatrician visits i forgot.
TBH it all seemed a bit hard too. The G.P said that it'd take 2 of us to do, and seeming i only see DH when we hand over shifts when he gets home from work at 12am i forgot.
But i'll def get to it and give it a try. I've had many UTIs over the years so now how painful they can be.
I've asked for help in terms of settling DD. The health nurse said we need to sort out the medical stuff first. But then when i mentioned it to the Paed, he said it's imposs to settle an under 3mth old bub!! :confused:
If it is just that she is a sooky bub, will she grow out of it? Or does it mean she's going to be a demanding toddler?
Why do you need 2 to get a urine sample. My paed gave me a bag with a hole in it, surrounded by sticky, which you put over his penis and then put a nappy over. When you next change the nappy you decant the urine into a container. My sister has told me there is an equivalent for girls (she has 3!). Maybe ask your paed for one of these.
~Temet Nosce~
03-09-2008, 16:54
Have you taken her to a quiropractor? (sp?) sometimes some bubs can get their back etc. put out a little bit during birth.. might be worth checking out.
Reflux can be a secondary symptom to other digestive disorders such as a milk protein intolerance or a lactose intolerance....and this makes bub very very unsettled and everything you described also..... Reflux meds whether it be zantac, locec or nexium will take 2-3 weeks to kick in properly... it is a accumulative drug and needs time to adsorb into the system.... I understand exactly what you are going through...
It's an extremely hard time....
A few questions hun...
What are her poos like? formed/ watery/ frothy???
this can tell alot.... If it is a UTI normaly the urine will smell quite concentrated and be darker than normal... It can also smell quite sweet as well as the poos....
Colic may also be presenting a problem which only exacerbates the reflux.... OHHHHHHHHH have i been there....
My little man was on zantac for 2-3 before we saw a new little man.... Dont get me wrong we still had issues but it wasn't nearly as bad and easily treated with a small dose of mylanta.... This is safe to do also.... Around 1-2 ml... this came from my paediatrician who is a gastric specialist... This man was my angel....
As for intolerance's the usual trial and error is to trial bubs on lactose free diet.... if you are Breastfeeding cutting out all dairy or trialling a lactose free formula will show a benefit very quickly.... if breastfeeding it can take a few good days for it to leave your system... also other acid producing foods you may be eating will have to be avoided also.... If still there isn't an improvement then a specialized formula is trailed which the milk protein is substituted and contains no lactose....
Elevate the bubs bed to a 30 degree angle and avoid tight clothing on her tummy... keep bubs upright for a feed for as long as you can.... No doubt you have heard all of this...
Also massaging her lower abdomen with some oil or cream in a clockwork motion can do wonders...
Sorry for rambling.... My heart goes out to you... x x
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 18:00
I'll ask my G.P about the urine bag on fri, otherwise will ask the Paed tues week.
She used to be 2poos a feed(watery), it then went thicker twice daily. Since the 20th Aug, she has gone 5days(dr gave her suppository), 3days( i gave 2dose of brown sugar in water) and now it's been 7days since she has opened her bowels. She strains, smells something shocking! and obviously becomes distressed with pain.
The Paed said that it is nothing.
Her wee has been alot stronger and more golden.I just thought it had something to do with her not using her bowels.
I was also told colic is reflux. My DH & I both think she gets bowel pains as well as the upper reflux pains.
I've cut out all the foodstuffs they recommend and we do all the things you listed at the bottom of your post (essjay).
She has been on reflux for 4 weeks but her dose has just increased & paed said to give it 2wks before we try s/thing else.
I've only been to him once, he was very dismissive of things i had to say&seemed more interested in wanting to stick tubes with electrodes on them through her nose.
MyFourCubs
03-09-2008, 18:33
I agree 100% with Essjay:yes: she said alot of what I was about to say. No, I do not think it's normal to have a baby that cries hysterically all the time- from experience I have learned that there has to be a reason. Firstly though I want to say IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT:hugs: but I said exactly what you did when my ds was born. I felt like I had done something terribly wrong to bring a child into the world that was so unhappy. He screamed for the first 4 months of his life and all the doctors, nurses etc would tell me is that he had "colic." If I had of listened to them evevry time and done nothing I shudder to think where we would be now! Long story short is a severe milk and soy allergy was dx at 10 weeks of age only because I PUSHED and pushed, I knew there was something wrong with him even though he LOOKED like a very normal, healthy baby and I was lucky to find a switched on paed. he also had silent reflux and was put on zantac but the milk was the real issue. once he was put on prescription formula (he was breastfed originally then tried on dairy / soy formula) he was a different child. we still spent a week at a residential unit (Tresillian) for sleep / settling issues- he had never learned how to sleep because he was in such pain!!!:(
My 17 month old dd I have recently discovered has a dairy intolerance and this has been responsible for much of her incessant crying and sleeplessness- unfortunately hers developed later than ds so I wasn't on the ball and thought she was just a hideous, painful, clingy toddler. penny dropped one night when I noticed that she was pulling her little legs up while she was screaming:o In fairness I had asked her paed when she was about 12 months old if her behaviour could be foodallergy related and he said it just sounded behavioural and suggested tresillian.
BOTTOM LINE: This is NOT normal behaviour and you need to demand some answers. do not be fobbed off from health preofessionals- ask that they investigate the extent of the reflux and possible food allergy. A urine culture is also a good idea in case she is having reoccurent or low grade continual UTI's. They don't like to use those sticky bags as they get contaminated and are inaccurate.
This is NOT your fault you sound like a wonderful, loving mother:yes: I know it's hard but don't beat yourself up over it. I only weeks ago said I thought my dd would be better off in another family as I clearly couldn't look after her well enough to make her happy so I completely understnad you feeling this way, just channel your energy into finding out whats going on. if she will not stop crying the quickest way to get her seen by a paed is the ER. That's what we had to do with Alex.
I am sure there is nothing seriously wrong so don't let any of this scare you, any of the above is easily treated and dealt with, IF that's what is going on.
:hugs:keep us posted!
MyFourCubs
03-09-2008, 19:12
Just wanted to add that chiropractic is always worth a go- didn't work for either of mine but they are in the minority- chiropractic has a high success rate with unsettled babies, colic, reflux etc. An osteopath can do cranial osteopathy which can have great results- completely harmless and painless. I see an osteopath for my 2 year old ds who has autism in addition to the allergies and we see remarkable results. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I say!!!:D
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 20:30
Thankyou so much glcksandthe3bears.:)
You have given me the confidence to push forward& get some answers for my girl.
It really got to the stage where i was getting paranoid thinking people were thinking it was all in my head.:dizzy:
We spent 9 hours at the ER (Westmead Chdns hosp) after my GP sent us there.
We were snickered at & spoken down to.
As soon as the Dr found out i was a first time mum, he turned to DH & said what do you think? Totally disregarding all the symptoms i had described.:banghead:
He then gave her a suppository saying the prob is constipation and that i was confused.
He even wrote that down - mother confused!!
I am going to ask Paed about milk allergy & if he sends me home again with no help, i will go elsewhere.
I have also begged to be referred to Tresillian, & was told that once baby is medicated i wont need help because of my 15yrs experience in CC.
Shouldn't that be my decision?
Obviously i need help. :yes:
Somedays my DD only sleeps 8 out of 24hrs. I've prob only been out of the house 6times by myself because it's just so distressing for her and myself.
Thanks to you, I am not going to accept that this is just my DD personality. I'm going to fight on to get some answers, even if I have to do it alone.
Amysmumma! Firstly, big hugs to you! I just thought I'd add that we found our DS improved a lot once he was prescribed Losec. He never really tolerated the Zantac, but the Losec is so much easier to give to him and he is a lot more settled. I would definitely do as the others suggest and push for some answers. The Osteopathy sounds good too. I find the chiropractor not very gentle and it didn't help much. Good luck and let us know how you go. :hugs: :hugs:
MyFourCubs
03-09-2008, 21:49
We spent 9 hours at the ER (Westmead Chdns hosp) after my GP sent us there.
We were snickered at & spoken down to.
As soon as the Dr found out i was a first time mum, he turned to DH & said what do you think? Totally disregarding all the symptoms i had described.
He then gave her a suppository saying the prob is constipation and that i was confused.
He even wrote that down - mother confused!!
Thanks to you, I am not going to accept that this is just my DD personality. I'm going to fight on to get some answers, even if I have to do it alone.
:hair: Grrrrr... this makes me so angry!!!!!! I was told the same thing by idiot drs in the ER about the constipation. Even when I was there with ds about a year ago, he had been screaming inconsolably for days- yes, days- and even though he had had two loose bowel movements the previous day the dr told me it must be constipation and tried to give him a laxative!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused: i refused and asked for a second opinion. Long story short he had severe acute tonsillitis!:banghead: Are they idiots?????????? Like I said earlier, keep going til you get somebody who takes you seriously. You will get treated like a paranoid hyperchondriac esp as a first time mother but who cares- YOU know best YOU are her mother and dont' let anybody "pacify" you.
I was also told the personality thing when Alex was 6 weeks old- that he was just a cranky baby who would grow into a cranky adult.:confused: Yeah.... thanks.
I also couldn't leave the house with Alex- we would go the shops for groceries and he would scream the entire time. It was so embarrassing and so stressful I just stopped going out. It was very lonely and isolating. It's horrible.:hugs: you'll get through this- i PROMISE!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 21:55
Thanks morganj.
Did your DS have to have any invasive tests for reflux? My paed wants to send my DD home with electrodes going into her stomach and her arms strapped to boards.:eek:
Surely there is another way.
This might sound silly, but how do I know if the Zantac is working or if she should try something else?
Do all the symptoms go away or does bub just become more settled? Sorry if thats' a pathetic question!!:confused:
Obviously she is still distressed, but how do I know if it is still the reflux or something else?
MissSookyLaLa
03-09-2008, 21:55
hey amysmumma, i noticed you are in sydney, my friend raves about her paediatric chiro and naturopath/nutritionist/dietician...
i can get the names for you if you like and pm you...they are near hornsby if you are northish?
no advice, but big hugs and NO its not your fault!!!
RaryGirl
03-09-2008, 21:59
I'm sorry .... I don't have any advice for you ... just wanted to give you some :hugs: .... I've got a 3 week old that screams most of her waking moments (and she's awake ALOT :() .... we've just started our journey on trying to find out what is wrong. So I understand where you are coming from. :hugs:
Cranial osteopathy worked for a good friend of mine with a crying baby. There might be a crying baby clinic; it's worth an ask. This isn't normal, and there could a hundred different reasons for it. I'd recommend making records ; ie note taking, how long she cries, what you do, what she eats and when you change her etc. Doctors respect the written word, and tend to suspect you are exaggerating otherwise. Other random suggestions...
baby massage
tight swaddling
baby wearing
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 22:04
Yeah i've only just started questioning whether it's my DD personality because the Paed asked me what my DH and my temperaments are like, and asked if it could possibly be that she has reflux but also just be an unsettled bub.
I said no, but it had me questioning whether sometimes she is just being cranky.
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 22:11
Hi missSookylala (:laughing: thats what i call my DD!!),
I'd really appreciate the name & number. I'm not too far from Hornsby. Thanx
Goodluck on your quest Nic71.:fingerscrossed:
Singlepregnant chick, do you need a referral?
I do the note taking but havent taken it with me. will do nxt time.
Tried your 3 suggestions without much luck.
my dd was similar syptoms @ 12 weeks, but it turned out she was getting urine infections, which has now been corrected through surgery,
we used the containers and the bags for her urine samples, as the containers picked up more results than the bags did for some unknown reason.
they did tell me why but i cannot remember
amysmumma
03-09-2008, 22:14
Now i feel really guilty about not trying to get a sample sooner! :shame:
Lanamuma90
03-09-2008, 23:29
Dont feel bad, i have a baby with severe reflux, and one of my friends has a baby with silent reflux, so i know how you feel,
the zantac didnt work for me, and losec gave her a rash, so we just tolerate some vomitting, dd was a sooky baby for first 3 months and didnt put on any weight like 100g a month if we were lucky,
is she a vomity baby?? if shes not she could have silent reflux, which is when they swallow it again, if you havent already, ask the paed for a Ph probe, stevie had one and now shes ok, :D (but now teethingn had started,lol it never ends!!! hahahaha) Ph probes arent as much of a pain as the board and electrode thingys, there not nice but hey, its quicker, and probably less uncomfortable, but it will let you know if the relfux is causing incredible pain or not
hope that helps you
Lana
hope that helps some,
How long have you tried the Zantac for? If it's not making any difference after a few days then perhaps there is something else going on. Our paed just listened to Blake's stomach with his stethoscope and said yep 'reflux'. Also we found the Zantac constipated DS so that's another reason we stopped it and got a second opinion, hence the Losec, which is fantastic.
amysmumma
04-09-2008, 10:31
DD vomits copious amounts of milk for hours after feed. She also chews the curds alot and i find them in her nose!
DD has been on Zantac for at least 4 wks but apaart from upping the dose 3 times, there really hadn't been any discussion about trying s/thing else until i saw the Paed.
I believe my something (eg Zantac) has also caused my daughter to be constipated which further adds to her pain. But Paed was disgusted that Dr had given her a suppository as he explained constipation is small pebbles, not the inability to open the bowels.
He said it's perfectly fine, and cited a baby that only poo's every 29days. All i know it isn't usual for my bub, and she is in great pain& it wakes from sleep. (i can tell by the smell that it's whats causing her distress!)
What's a Ph probe?
I was told if i hold off from having the electrode procedure, she will start bringing up blood & bile as it will start stripping her oesophagus.
Actually i have to change her now, as she is soaked down to her nappy, from the short time i've been sitting here( fed 3hrs ago).
It sounds like it could possibly be the Zantac that is constipating her. Can you get a different opinion? We have had a lot of success with the Losec as I said before. Are you breastfeeding? Perhaps if you are you might want to try eliminating soy/dairy from your diet for a couple of weeks to see if this helps.
Hi again...
Going through what i went through and hearing other mums stories on bub hub it continues to INFURIATE:hair: me when Doctors play down symptoms and make you feel so inadequate to the point that you actually feel you are!!!...
i know not all Doctors aren't like this but generally we cop the ones that are.... May sound harsh but ARGHHH!!!
I'm not an expert but i can shed light on why doctors do feel that bubs may be constipated when they have watery bowel motions though.... When you become constipated there is a thing called 'overflow'... and that is the water from the softer stools not absorbed into the body moving past the harder stool that can not be past.... Its very common in young babies/children and the elderly. HOWEVER this doesn't mean that EVERY baby is constipated and they aren't having watery bowel motions due to an intollerence where the sugar can not be broken down due to a missing enzyme or 'lack of it' in the intestine and watery/frothy bowel movements are the result...
And suppositories shouldn't be used unless an scan or manual palpation over the abdomen has been performed to rule out a blockage or impaction this can do more harm than good....
I have also found that there isn't alot of support for breastfeeding mothers who have babies with reflux/intolerance complaints either.... the first thing that is said is to switch bubs to formula.... I know in some cases this has to happen but there never seems to be enough education to assist breastfeeding mothers in knowing 'what' in their diet could be affecting bubs.... For eg.... being told to cut out dairy also means anything that dairy is in it and so much of the food we consume has tiny traces of the 'dreaded' protein that is found in 'dairy'... It also comes down to nuts and acid producing foods such as tomato etc.... It all has to be cut out completely to know if bubs is in fact reacting to it.... and then you have to know what food you can replace with the nasties so you don't start lacking yourself or have the most dismal diet ever.... the only best advice relating to all of this i found was from the breastfeeding association...
It's all very overwhelming but with the right advice and support it is so much easier to continue to breastfeed and have a happy baby....
As you may have noticed i am pretty passionate about it.... Sorry for rambling.... again.....
Be strong hun and do your research.... There are so many mums here on bubhub that have been through what you are going through or are going through right now... They were the ones that got me through it and helped me to get the diagnosis and treatment that my little man so desperately needed... I will forever be in debt to this forum...
Hang in there hun... x x:hugs:
amysmumma
04-09-2008, 13:53
IKWYM Essjay.
Drs can be so condescending.
I'm treated like an idiot because i'm a first time mum.:banghead:
To be told the problem with my DD is that i'm confused puts the blame on me and is extremely condescending.
In regards to constipation, my Paed said it is only considered constipation if the stools are like pebbles.
Every other consistency is norm.
My issue wasn't the consistency, it was the time between bowel movements. DD has gone from 2poo's a feed, to 2 per day and now it has been 8 days.
Anyway whether Paed thinks that that's perfectly normal is irrelevent when my baby is obviously in alot of pain and is continually straining and having horrendously foul wind!!
I bf but also mostly ff lately since she was rejecting me. i'm also on motillium to keep up my supply.
I'm sitting here :crying:.
I've finally gotten her down after her screaming for over 2hrs. i've been up with her since 3am, after only having 2 hrs sleep.
I've just asked my 70 year old mum to come up (she lives 5hrs away) because i can't cope anymore. I need some one else to see what she's like.
Oh no!! she's started again. Less than 5mins break!!:hissy:
I think you can buy infant gaviscon over the counter. Personally, having nursed tons of babies with reflux in hospital, I believe in gaviscon. It might be worth giving it a go - if it works it's magical and you'll have a different baby in 12 hours. You can mix it with some breast milk and syringe it in or put it in her bottle. A wrap that keeps her upright, like a moby or hugabub will also work in combination with the gaviscon.
reAllytee
04-09-2008, 14:11
Your in Sydney hun ?
Can you get to Sydney Childrens Hospital ????
I can tell you who you need to see & how to beg for help !
All of what you are going through sounds like a lot of our issues.
The fact your little one has milk up her nose could mean she is aspirating ... WHat the hell are these doctors doing ?!?!?!
Pebbles for constipation ?!?!? WTF !?!?!? Do they not know about overflow ?!?!?!?!?!
Honestly this really pi$$es me off cause i got so much sh!t thrown at me & G was my second baby !
I was told he was not the problem that i was & then another tried to tell me at 3mths he had behavioural problems !!!! I was so damned angry & so distraught it was unbelievable !
You need to get the reflux under control & then its a case of working out whether there is anything else going as to whether its a dairy issue &/or whether there is a bowel issue thrown in.
To be completely pedantic it wont be true LI because otherwise your little one wwould be losing weight dehydrating etc. If she does have LI its a secondary problem cause she is having issues with say the milk protiens which are causing her bowel to 'react' which then means it can show up as though its LI when thats not really the true problem.
amysmumma
04-09-2008, 14:52
I actually tried Gaviscon once, but saw no improvement, but i'm desperate so i'll give it another shot.:fingerscrossed:
Hi ReAllytee, we spent 9 hrs at Westmead chdns hosp after being sent there by our GP. She thought that we'd be able to get it sorted once and for all.
She also thought the constipation might be tied in with the other symptoms and be something other than reflux.
But like i said before, the Doc just gave DD a suppository and told me that I was confused and needed to relax.:banghead:
I'd be so grateful for any suggestions on how to be seen to and actually listened to.:)
I'm getting so angry.
This is exactly how women were treated in the 1950's. Back then they used the label Hysteria.
It's no different now. They don't use the word, but we're treated the same. I.e- they pat our hand, and in the most condescending tone they can muster, suggest that we need to rest, babies cry and to go home .:mad:
Well is it normal for a baby to cry for 2+hrs at a time and to be awake for up to 7 hrs? Or to refuse feed for 12hrs?
Even when she does feed, it can be as little as 40-60ml every 4hrs.
Strange thing is my bub is still putting on weight. So that's another reason for the doc to dismiss me.
As long as there's 6wet nappies and she's putting on weight, never mind she is in so much pain she cannot sleep and i can't have a shower for 2days!!:hissy:
Sorry about the rant, but i'm exhausted and fed up!!:hair:
june05isttimer
04-09-2008, 15:01
Hi there
I have just been sitting here reading all of this and it has brought back soo many awful emotional times with my dd2 who screamed and cried constantly for almost the first 4 and a half months of life.
I too was treated like a paranoid mother with an unsettled baby but I believe like you that it is not normal to have a baby who is unhappy ALL the time.
I was treated like an idiot in the children's hospital in Brisbane here and I have no good reports to say about them. I don't know about Sydney but the three times I have dealt with the childrens hospital up here they have been young idiot interns who have never even thought of having children let alone knowing how or what to do with crying baby and an emotional wreck of a mother.
Hang in there though and get demanding..even if you have to sit at the peads office with her screaming. We did that at one point..
Turned out that our dd2 had severe reflux and a mulitple protein intolerance to the point where she was in pain all the time too and had the poo probs as well as the reflux sides of things. She ended up with a naso gastric tube for 4mths because she developed an aversion to feeding because it caused her so much pain.
I would be strongly pushing changing the meds to losec and and maybe talking to him at the same time about a formula called neocate or elecare that is now being prescribed for severe reflux bubs and or bubs with protein issues.
Our pead saw our dd2 every two weeks til she was 6mths old and kept her in hospital privately for 9 days to try an sought her out.
I feel for you and just keep knowing and thinking that despite what you think you are not the only one who is going through or has gone through this. I know how isolating it is. I almost had a nervous breakdown over the whole thing and my poor husband couldn't even bring himself to hold her as he just couldn't handle the crying. I took the brunt of my dd2 issues on my own whilst my dh took a step back and took care of our dd1. Not something I would ever wish on anyone.
Get her right and she will be soo much happier.
Please let us all know how you get on and keep in touch. Sometimes bubhub was all I had to keep me going.. I am proud to say that she is 1yr old in 3weeks time and we are all alive... so that is a huge plus!!!!! She is a clingy bub but is a much much happier baby since getting her worked out.
Pinkarella
04-09-2008, 15:07
My first daughter was like that, so much that I don't think I remember much of her first 4 months. She was always miserable, didn't like to feed, gave up BF, hated the bottle, cried constantly like she was angry at the world in the pram, in arms, in the stroller, in the car, you name it!
She had severe reflux (all the symptoms you mentioned) and the constipation and hard dark green smelly poos. We tried Zantac in different dosages for some weeks but as she wasn't improving we were changed to losec which worked for a few days each time the dosage was upped but things always went bad again. Put her on lactose free formula which in combination with a high dosage of losec semi worked until she was 4 months old when she got a cold and stopped feeding altogether and ended up in hospital for a week to be tubed fed Pepti junior (a specialized formula). After the hospital she was ok for a week or so and things went down hill again. Started on solids at 5 months and she started getting nappy rash and diarrhoea, tried soy milk that make her vomit constantly, at the end at 6 months old she was put on neocate plus 20mg of losec and Voila, a new baby! In 2 weeks I had an angel that napped during the day and slept through and fed more or less happily. She had diary/gluten/soy allergy.
I don't know if that is going to be the case with your baby but it might be an idea to press for losec, it normally works a bit better than zantac. With my second daughter I was advised to put her NAN HA (Hypoallergenic) because is easier to digest for babies with reflux and for babies who could developt and allergy, so that could also help.
Please don't blame yourself, I used to as well and now looking back I feel so bad for it because it was so obvious that something was wrong, but being my first daughter I thought it was just her personality, that she was a difficult child and that it was my fault or that she didn't like me...please be strong, try to rest if you can, even if you have to lie down with your baby in your arms. I had the same experience with doctors thinking I was an overreacting first time mum, I changed doctors several times and one of them (the paediatrician that found the allergies) told me that sometimes to get pass the condescending looks in emergency you have to really exagerate so at least they take you seriously! :hissy:
Good luck, I hope you can get to the bottom of what's bothering your baby soon...:hugs:
Hang on...Can I just clarify??
Did you say that this happens WHEN YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE? (and then, she is unsettled once you get home again?)
If this is correct, is it safe to say she is not screaming if you stay in the house all day with her?
I may have read your post wrong.....but if this happens ONLY when you leave the house, I doubt very much there is a medical issue to blame. If it is happening regardless of where you are, then definitely get the medical issues cleared.
IF she is screaming only when you leave the house...could it be that she is overstimulated when she is out? Sometimes I find that if my DD is tired, plus put in an environment that she is unfamiliar with (and is very stimulating) she will scream. Usually, though, she is an angel. It is amazing how things can change under the right (or wrong! :p) :pcircumstances.
Please ignore this post if it doesn't make sense... i just thought you said this happens when you GO OUT. (?)
PS - sorry, I only read up to the first page of posts... I didn't realise there were more :p. Just reading the rest now....
Okay, have read the next three pages now. Sorry, hun. It does sound like she has reflux. Obviously you know this and that is why she is on the treatment she is on. I agree in trying the stronger meds. And obviously she is upset and crying when you are at home as well as when you go out. Hugs to you.:hugs:
MooandMoo2
04-09-2008, 16:08
Hang in there i feel for you, definately keep trying to get answers and i hope you get some asap and your bubba is much happier. i know how u feel ive been down that road, my son had severe reflux from 3-4 weeks till 10 months, he would literally scream for 15-17 hours straight and then pass out for about 45mins unable to be woken from sheer exhaustion, then it would start all over again. i dont know how i coped looking back, pls keep trying to find a solution.
my son is 17 months, still has mild reflux now, hates the car anymore than 5 mins and hes screaming and vomiting, doesnt sleep well at night wakes every 10-15mins, but he is happy and beautiful and very bright.
just make sure you look after yourself as well as bubs.
amysmumma
04-09-2008, 16:12
:hugs:Thanks, if it wasn't for all of you lovely ladies taking the time to give me advice, i'd still be blaming myself.
IT's terrible to hear all your stories about what you've been through with your bubs.
Even worse for the poor babies.:rain:
I'l definately ask about Neocate and Losec. They are worth a try.
I've been very upset with the lack of support i've received in relation to my probs with bf.
When i told my GP DD was rejecting me, she said "good, now you can get your life back and ff".
But if it's better for my precious to be on a special formula then we will give up bf :crying:.
I'm willing to try anything.
My DH had her for 2mins today. He ended up getting really upset, saying he just can't do this anymore and put her on the lounge.
My DH has 2 kids from prev marriage so he can also see that this isn't norm.
Though he is just as likely to declare her cured if she has a good night!:thumbsdown:
He only sees her between midnight-3am. He doesnt see what we go through the rest of the time.
My baby just exploded!! After 8days, she's used her bowels. The crying has stopped & she is about to fall asleep:fingerscrossed:
Now, how can the Paed say that's normal?
Obviously the pain has ceased for now. Yippee!:yelclap:
amysmumma
04-09-2008, 16:33
Hi kkaz, my bub does have reflux and something else causing her pain (and constipation).
But i started this thread because she can be in good spirits, even perhaps have a bit of pain here and there, but when i take her out, it is like a tornado hits.
Her crying doesn't start at level 1, it starts at 8 and builds to 10 with in seconds. She will be red, losing her voice and struggling to breathe.:hissy:
We don't often see the crying that intense if we stay at home.
In saying that though, she was on level ten from 11-3.30pm today. It finally ended when she opened her bowels.
AAAAHHHH peace!!!:D
But the questions still remain.
What's causing the constipation?
What else is making her cry when we are out? She hasn't always been constipated.
I've wondered if it's over stimulation too.
I've heard reflux babies can be very sensitive to noise etc. Then there's other times when i've worried if it's a sign of Autism. Probably a silly thought. I don't even know if there are signs at such a young age (9wks).
Anyway I have so much info now that at least i can start a process of elimination.:)
i think you may get sick of me... but anyway:D...
OK another poo question? was it formed or slightly runny/ frothy or watery? Do you believe it was hard enough for her not to be able to pass it?
What color was it hun?... sorry.... just curious....
Us mums to little ones are very poo obsessed:laughing:... but all of these things may shed some light for those of us who have been there....
As for weaning to the bottle..... Dont feel guilty or that you have failed.... it is not your fault... Please, please know that.....
What formula is she having hun?....
Ok..... Because bubs is not sleeping well and has been unsettled for quite a length of time she is definitely over stimulated.... Your little bubba wants to sleep... she wants to relax but something is stopping her from doing that....
You said she is settled now YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!! Great to hear.... I hope she gets a good sleep..... and my best advice would be let her sleep till she wakes hun.... for her benefit and yours.... No matter how long.... Sleeping is healing also...
Your poor DH.... Tell him my DH was exactly the same and felt completely helpless.... Reassure him from me that it is not him.... and not to feel bad that he put her back down... im sure he is doing everything he can to support the tiring situation you are under.... Tell him not to give up and to hang in there also... encourage him to cuddle her and be as close as he can to her.... Tell him he is not alone.... My DH was beside himself with worry and we would end up arguing because we felt so hopeless...
I want to assure you that YOU WILL see happier times and laugh and play with your little one and this time will seem a distant memory....
Be strong as a family and get your answers....
We are all here if you need.... x x x
amysmumma
04-09-2008, 19:00
Sorry Essjay about the delay, i was a little premature in my elation!
Your poo obsessed??
my DH & I have a poo dance that we do when she finally goes.:laughing:
I was here alone today, poo everwhere, dancing and singing about poo!!:yelclap:
Lets see, her poo was the consistency of sludge. I couldn't believe the weight of the nappy. It was absolutely everywhere.
It was a horrible green colour.
She's on S26.
I tried her on S26 AR, but after 36hrs, she stopped feeding & slept 12hrs. The next 2days -only had 2feeds p/day and slept fitfully, waking every 10mins but going straight back to sleep. She didn't have any real awake time at all.
Within 2days of stopping the thickened formula, she was herself again. When i mentioned my theory to the Paed, he dismissed it.
Now, my initial reaction was to blame the constipation on the thickened form too, as it started 2days after we stopped.
The ER Dr chastised me for having given it to her, as her said it acts like glue. However, when i sheepishly admitted it to the Paed, he said thickened formulas are fine.
angel_cakesau
04-09-2008, 22:16
my son is 5 months now and we found out around 9 weeks that he was lactose intolerant and that the sludgy green poos are a sign we too thought it was reflux and bowels or colic but it was lactose intolerance i suggest getting a tin of lactose intolerant formular tryin bub on it for 10 days and see how you go if it works for you then you can ask your doctor for a script for the formular you are trying and it then costs you $5 for 5 900gram tins i was paying $50 a week for my sons lactose intolerant formular til someone kindly told me about the script but seriously suggest giving it a go we had bub on infants gaviscon um infacol infants friend we tried coloxyl drops natural stuff all it took was lactose intolerant formular hope you get relief soon
MyFourCubs
04-09-2008, 23:04
My first daughter was like that, so much that I don't think I remember much of her first 4 months. She was always miserable, didn't like to feed, gave up BF, hated the bottle, cried constantly like she was angry at the world in the pram, in arms, in the stroller, in the car, you name it!
She had severe reflux (all the symptoms you mentioned) and the constipation and hard dark green smelly poos. We tried Zantac in different dosages for some weeks but as she wasn't improving we were changed to losec which worked for a few days each time the dosage was upped but things always went bad again. Put her on lactose free formula which in combination with a high dosage of losec semi worked until she was 4 months old when she got a cold and stopped feeding altogether and ended up in hospital for a week to be tubed fed Pepti junior (a specialized formula). After the hospital she was ok for a week or so and things went down hill again. Started on solids at 5 months and she started getting nappy rash and diarrhoea, tried soy milk that make her vomit constantly, at the end at 6 months old she was put on neocate plus 20mg of losec and Voila, a new baby! In 2 weeks I had an angel that napped during the day and slept through and fed more or less happily. She had diary/gluten/soy allergy.
Give or take some of the details, that could have been our ds too. reading this thread (and I have been following it to see how you are going,) I think it's likely your dd has a food allergy along with the reflux and the overwhelming majority support the NEOCATE. i just dont' think youcan go wrong with it. My ds refused the breast too, it was so awful i could not understand why I was making him so unhappy and why my milk was causing him pain but it obviously was- I desperately wanted to keep b/f but in the end the Neocate changed our lives. The s26 if it's a milk allergy will massively escalate her pain and dairy can certainly cause constipation- we found that with our dd. INSIST on a neocate trial. DEMAND it. Don't take no for an answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:geek: keep demanding it until you get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you get some relief soon.:hugs:
Sorry Essjay about the delay, i was a little premature in my elation!
Your poo obsessed??
my DH & I have a poo dance that we do when she finally goes.:laughing:
I was here alone today, poo everwhere, dancing and singing about poo!!:yelclap:
Lets see, her poo was the consistency of sludge. I couldn't believe the weight of the nappy. It was absolutely everywhere.
It was a horrible green colour.
She's on S26.
I tried her on S26 AR, but after 36hrs, she stopped feeding & slept 12hrs. The next 2days -only had 2feeds p/day and slept fitfully, waking every 10mins but going straight back to sleep. She didn't have any real awake time at all.
Within 2days of stopping the thickened formula, she was herself again. When i mentioned my theory to the Paed, he dismissed it.
Now, my initial reaction was to blame the constipation on the thickened form too, as it started 2days after we stopped.
The ER Dr chastised me for having given it to her, as her said it acts like glue. However, when i sheepishly admitted it to the Paed, he said thickened formulas are fine.
I just wrote a million words and wiped them....:hair::laughing:
OK avoid thickened formulas.... I do actually agree with the ER doctor.... My paediatrician said to me that thickened formulas are OK when it's a simple case of relfux and its just to manage the 'up chuck' so to speak..... thickened formulas slow down the bowel motility (slower moving/digesting) and if bubs is already having an issue with bowel motility then this will definitely exacerbate the problem... Also if she has an intolerance the 'nasty' is in her body longer meaning longer enduring uncomfort.
It remains in there longer and then explodes due to the pressure behind it because of the gas build up which is caused by the chain reaction of an intolerance....
As for s26 hun..... I'd change her formula.... I may get shot for this BUT i've been there and many other mums also.... My paed isn't a fan of s26 as he has seen countless babies unsettled on this and hospitals are now straying away from it and going for formulas which a seemingly gentler on the tummy such as Karicare ....
I know its all confusing but this is the regime that was put forward to me....
Trial a lactose free formula.... If results aren't seen within 48 hours then he suggested that a trial of neocate would best determine if it was a protein allergy.... the effects can take longer to see as the digestive system needs to heal if this is the case.... results are usually seen around 3-4 days and then continue to improve.... The taste isn't the best but there are clever ways to help bubs accept it.
x x x
reAllytee
05-09-2008, 01:10
Hi ReAllytee, we spent 9 hrs at Westmead chdns hosp after being sent there by our GP. She thought that we'd be able to get it sorted once and for all.
She also thought the constipation might be tied in with the other symptoms and be something other than reflux.
But like i said before, the Doc just gave DD a suppository and told me that I was confused and needed to relax.:banghead:
I'd be so grateful for any suggestions on how to be seen to and actually listened to.
I'm getting so angry.
This is exactly how women were treated in the 1950's. Back then they used the label Hysteria.
It's no different now. They don't use the word, but we're treated the same. I.e- they pat our hand, and in the most condescending tone they can muster, suggest that we need to rest, babies cry and to go home .:mad:
Well is it normal for a baby to cry for 2+hrs at a time and to be awake for up to 7 hrs? Or to refuse feed for 12hrs?
Even when she does feed, it can be as little as 40-60ml every 4hrs.
Strange thing is my bub is still putting on weight. So that's another reason for the doc to dismiss me.
As long as there's 6wet nappies and she's putting on weight, never mind she is in so much pain she cannot sleep and i can't have a shower for 2days!!
Sorry about the rant, but i'm exhausted and fed up!!
Yessssss ridiculous huh !
Ok being that she is still somewhat b/f it could mean that she is taking issue with the changeover to formula & like essjay said GET HER OFF s26 !!!! Sooooo many babies have issues with it !
I would actually advise going for the Karicare HA. This is Hypoallergenic formula which sorta has things broken down so will be gentler on her tummy & you may also see an improvement in her pain. Otherwise it may be a case of needing a script formula but i would honestly try getting her pain under control as well as cutting out all dairy from your diet & seeing whether that helps.
As for the reflux again as essjay said steer clear of AR formulas unless you have been advised because yep they can create blockages when there are bowel issues but also they really dont solve much for the hardcore reflux babies.
You need to get someone to listen to you & get her medication sorted because its obviously not working or there is another issue in regards to her screaming. It isnt right for her to be screaming like that & i dont care how many freaking doctors say that sort of cr@p the good ones will tell you it isnt right !
There is a doctor who does work at SCH called Dr Reuben Jackson & i love him :goodvibes: He is a Gastroenterologist so he specialises in the digestive system & deals with reflux & bowel issues. Now he runs his practice from Prince Of Wales Private he is rather exxy & the wait is around 6mths but you can be put on the emergency list. The thing is if things are getting that bad she isnt feeding & she is just screaming all the time if you are really truly desperate you could try presenting at SCH saying you have the appt with Reuben & see what happens he may try to see you on rounds or get you in quicker it all varies to what the doctors see when in the ER.
My big suggestion for now is a diary ! Write down everything that happens through the day with her & keep notes this then backs you up & you may also start seeing a pattern which can help point to any issues.
The hilarious thing is your littlie may have needed help with moving her bowels but depending on where the blockage is the suppository may not have done a thing !
How often are you b/f to bottlefeeding ? Because b/f babies often dont go for up to 2wks & really their poo can vary heaps. The green can point to her not getting enough Hindmilk so she will need to stay on the one side for the whole feed rather than switching. Her not getting enough Hindmilk can also mean she is in pain from the Foremilk as it has more sugar content so can cause wind & pains etc.
Sorry its late & my brain has just died ! Im trying to deal with my reflux boy who has a really bad cough atm ! Will try to get back tomorrow with some more ideas or help.
Hang in there :hugs::hugs:
ReAllytee is spot on!!!
Breastfed bubs as you know can last for days without pooping but you mentioned that you were on meds to stop the production so i assume she is exclusively bottle fed now..... Changing over will show its true affect over 2-3 days as her system adjusts to the change.... but as Ally and i said.... changing her formula is IMO the best thing you can do for her now.... I hole heartedly agree with Karicare HA to determine if it is an issue with breaking down the proteins/lactose etc.... It's hard to explain BUT HA as ally said is a partially broken down formula which contains lactose and the milk protein... in saying that if she does have a milk protein intolerance or a lactose intolerance you may see an improvement initially but as the proteins/lactose builds up you may find she relapses again.... Here is the link to their website so you can get some more info on all of their formulas Karicare infant formula 0-6 months (http://www.nutricia.com.au/infant.asp)
HA was designed to assist bubs who have predisposed allergies where there is a family history of intolerances including eczema and can help to prevent an onset....
As reAllytee said managing her pain in the interim whilst you are waiting to be seen is obviously the biggest thing... Has Mylanta been suggested by your doctor or paed?.... It is a godsend for most mums.... and worked wonders for me until daniels meds kicked in.... It contain magnesium which assists with reducing wind and stomach cramps and the aluminium component (also in Zantac) reduces the acid in the stomach.... There has been speculation about aluminium in infants but i assure you it is perfectly safe. Boy have i done my research on this.... It was the first thing that my paed said to do.... Daniels dose at 10 weeks was 1.5ml x3 times a day after a feed.... for 1 week and then x2 times a day the second week and then stop, but this was to see if the zantac was working and it had kicked in.....
You mentioned that bubs was dosed recently. As you know it is dosed on weight and severity do you mind if i ask what her dose is and her weight?
So much info for you, i know but hopefully you can filter all of this and go to your doctor/paed and be totally informed and somewhat educated about the things to ask and demand answers for.....
Good luck.... I hope you and bubs are having a better day today hun.... x x
Lanamuma90
05-09-2008, 12:20
hey if you still have problems with comstipation, i know its not great, but stevie being on a spesific ar formula, made her so constipated she didnt poop for like 5 days wich is unusual for her...we took her to the hosp and the nurse told me to go to the chemist and buy some coloxyl drops, they were a godsend, i dont usually like giving meds to her after some of the reactions we had but thumbs up for the ocloxyl drops, and its a day by day thing if they need it you give it to them if not, you dont,
is bubby chucky?? or chew curds?? if she does, start to seriously look into the ph probe, it turned stevie into a new baby,we tried everything before the probe, lactose, soy, gluten intolerances, when they discovered the ph levels, they gave me something, ad she as fine,
Im 17 im a first time mum and it took me 4 months to even get a doctoer to send me to a paed!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! i dunno what would have happened if i wasnt given the help i needed when i was, i went to a gp, and she used to be a pead and she saw it and send me to one of her ex colleuges and he was soo good,
Just be confident, tell them exactly whats happening dont mention its your first baby and tell them, "yes but i have plenty of experience with children and i have never seen anything like this before", go back every 3 days if you need to, make them see that your not just overreacting...that there is really a problem , seek second and even third opinions if you have to
hope this is helpful and i hope that someone sees sense because its not normal!! its not your fault and but hugs for you,
your not alone in this fight, most of us are hooked waiting to find out what happens with you precious baby,
all my love and hope is being sent your way :D
Hi kkaz, my bub does have reflux and something else causing her pain (and constipation).
But i started this thread because she can be in good spirits, even perhaps have a bit of pain here and there, but when i take her out, it is like a tornado hits.
Her crying doesn't start at level 1, it starts at 8 and builds to 10 with in seconds. She will be red, losing her voice and struggling to breathe.:hissy:
We don't often see the crying that intense if we stay at home.
In saying that though, she was on level ten from 11-3.30pm today. It finally ended when she opened her bowels.
AAAAHHHH peace!!!:D
But the questions still remain.
What's causing the constipation?
What else is making her cry when we are out? She hasn't always been constipated.
I've wondered if it's over stimulation too.
I've heard reflux babies can be very sensitive to noise etc. Then there's other times when i've worried if it's a sign of Autism. Probably a silly thought. I don't even know if there are signs at such a young age (9wks).
Anyway I have so much info now that at least i can start a process of elimination.:)
Hi Amysmumma,
You have had lots of wonderfiul advice on here about getting your DD'd reflux sorted out. I am sure you have your hands full with all the info and are well on the way to getting what you need from the docs etc.
I just thought I would get back to addressing the original question / concern you had about taking DD out in the pram/car/sling etc. She sounds like a very tired and emotional bubba. As I mentioned, and as you had been thinking about, I do think your little one is getting over stimulated when she goes out with you. This is overstimulation in the context of her being so tired from lack of sleep...and the lack of sleep is probably because of the pain that she is in due to her reflux. It is a viscious cycle, isn't it? :no:
Obviously, when your DD gets her medical issues sorted out, then hopefully she will sleep better and then not be so tired (and get so overstimulated) when she goes out. In the meantime, it might help to put a muslin wrap or sheet over the top of her pram, and to get out and about after she has had a good/reasonable sleep (if that ever happens?:confused:). That way she has less to see and she will be less cranky. You will need to get out and about at times, and until you get all other issues sorted, you might just have to do the best you can to make her outings as unstimulating as possible.
Good luck to you...:hugs:
Oh...and there are no signs of autism at this age...so please DO NOT worry about this. :hugs:
reAllytee
05-09-2008, 15:08
The other thing to remember is that reflux babies are sensitive !
They tend to freak out over too much noise & become overwhelmed when out of around lots of people so try not to stress about her reactions as its fairly common.
My little guy is still really clingy when around lots of people & will pretty much jump into my arms if someone comes near him. Either that or he screams if he cant get near me which he has worked out puts everyone off touching him LOL !
He often wont smile at people when they talked to him in the pram & bursts into tears. You have to think they are in pain & going through lots so they dont want to be happy iykwim. They are miserable !
Getting a sleep pattern is obviously an idea but that wont happen until you have the pain under control because laying them down causes the pain most of the time. So if you need to let her sleep wherever she prefers if thats in the pram or rocker so be it ! G slept on me most of the time in my arms upright or in the sling while i did things as this was the only way he would sleep.
Essjay advised trying the Mylanta which is a great idea ! Give it to her 20mins before a feed then see how she goes ! As my Paed says if the Mylanta works & they feed & are more settled you KNOW the reflux isnt under control so thats something you can push when you speak with the doctor !
I hope today hasnt been too rough on you :hugs::hugs:
amysmumma
05-09-2008, 16:43
I want to scream!!:hissy:
Just got back from my GP.
She told me the cause of all my DDs probs is bf!
Never mind the fact it's gotten worse since she's been on formula. She has been anti breast since i was pregnant!!
When I gave in to her, after much arguing, i said i'd try giving up for 2 weeks (expressing to keep up supply).
She then gave me that look (you know the one, where she thinks you are a total fool)
and said "oh why are you still so adamant to stick with breast?" and proceded to use my DH as her ally.:mad:
It got to the point that I had to try really hard not to cry infront of them.
When I kept on arguing, she conceded tht yes my DD has reflux, yes she should have a PH probe but I need to give up the breastfeeding nonsense.
I was told the constipation cannot be from the Zantac, it is from the bf.
Her belief is my DD is starving and that is why she is constipated.
I then reminded her that DD gets offered bf first (since having probs with rejection) then has ff.
She mostly has ff and in defence of bf i have given up everything i was told to.
I DO NOT believe bf is the culprit.:no:
In the end she had no justification for her demand for me to give up bf, but insisted i do it anyway.:hair:
Oh even more insane, was her guarantee that at exactly 14days my DD will be cured.
My husband agrees and i feel like i'm the only sane one.
I really think you are right ReAllytee about the over stimulation.
I was probably going about it the wrong way. I was taking her out when she was tired, i the hope that she would then sleep!
Hi Lanamum90. We tried the coloxyl for 3days with no result and ended up at the ER.
The Dr said that we shouldn't have used it, but then again, if you've read my posts you'd Know he was an idiot!!!
I can be quite intimidated by people in authority.
Thanks to all of you, i've realised if i dont demand answers who else is going to help my baby.
Can somebody please explain what a PH probe involves? ta
reAllytee
05-09-2008, 17:11
Ive never had a PH probe ... Its rather unecessary & i honestly do not know why she wouldnt suggest trying say Losec to see if this helps.
I also cannot believe the anti b/f cr@p she has gone on with !
Giving up will solve nothing !
Have you tried cutting out dairy ?
I would suggest cutting out all dairy from your diet & using Mylanta before her feed & see how you go. It will take around 10 days for the dairy to full leave your system but seriously you should see results within a week & a full turn around by 2wks if this is causing issue.
If your DD was starving you would know this by a lot more than her screaming & being constipated ! She wouldnt be passing anything at all & she would be dehydrated & losing weight ! Has she lost any weight etc ? Is she gaining or remaining steady ? If so then thats all a load of rot ! GGGGGGRRRRRR im so damned angry for you :banghead:
Ok you need to call the ABA NOW ! Their Syd number is : (02) 8853 4999 otherwise you can try email but phoning is much better !
Please dont give in to their bullying at this point because honestly it will solve NOTHING. Breastfeeding is the best thing you can do for a reflux baby & unless their are extreme circumstances giving up is unnecessary !
Find yourself another g.p. I know that sounds harsh etc but really you need someone on your side & someone who will listen & not start belittling breastfeeding !
Ok where do i start now, ok have you got yourself somewhere you can diary everything ?
Start that tonite !
Write down all the meals & snacks you eat etc because it may not be dairy even though i think its at least part of the problem ! But there could be other foods that cause her pain iykwim.
So document everything from your foods to her feeding, her temperament, sleeping etc.
Cut all dairy out so that means foods, drinks & even things like biscuits etc which will have it in its ingredients. Its gonna suck but its well worth it. I would also suggest sticking with some really bland meals over the next week & see how that goes.
Try feeding her more in the football hold as this means she is more upright so it will help with pain but giving her Mylanta 20mins before a feed will hopefully help with her pain. Keep her on one side because this will mean she will get more Hindmilk which is heavier & if possible express a little before her feed to get rid of some of the foremilk as this will make her uncomfortable being so sugary. Soothe her & make it a good experience dont force her & if need be change where you feed her so she isnt associating it with pain iykwim. Just take your time & try to relax as hard as it is ! Also dont let her snack ! Demand feeding is usually the best thing for b/f bubs but with reflux that goes out the window so feed her every 3-4hrs inbtween these times when she demands a feed try other distractions because she is feeding to help with the pain as the milk soothes her throat but the problem is she is overfilling her tummy which is then causing more reflux. Use a dummy as the sucking produces saliva which will help the burning in her throat.
You have no reason to give up b/f .... There is no reason at all so if you dont want to then DONT !
Please also post in the breastfeeding section as you will get tonnes of support from others going through this too :hugs::hugs:
I cant believe your doctors nerve at treating you like this.... First piece of advice is to change doctors... Start fresh....
I couldn't agree more with reAllytee... ring the ABA ASAP!!!! cut out dairy (eggs also), nuts, anything containing soy.... Soy is an allergen itself and can affect bubs through breastfeeding.... If you remove the milk protein from your diet then you will see a difference as Ally said in around a weeks time. I came across this info at wikipedia for you which i found beneficial and other mums also... It explains the foods to avoid and the foods to watch out for.... Read your labels so you know...
Milk Allergy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_allergy)
Lactose Intolerance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance)
Also there is a group called RISA that give advice and support right here on bubhub... They can also assist you to where to go for more info...
Sometimes people tend to recommend what is easier in treating a suspected intolerance etc.... YES it is the easier way to stop breastfeeding and switch to formula HOWEVER.... It doesn't have to be this way.... and your definitely not alone here....
Thinking of you..... x x:hugs:
Lanamuma90
08-09-2008, 13:11
OMG....seriously go to a gp that knows a little about babies...OMG thats bull, seriously you dont need the stress of some **** doctor on top of everyhting your going through, i wanted to keep BF but unfortunatly i keeped getting cracked/bleeding nipples and a bad bout of mastitis is what made me stop...if i could have kept going i would have, the dairy thing is a good idea, im not exactly sure what happens with a Ph probe DP took her for hers,
i found a site for it
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/pediatrics/patients/tutorials/reflux/diagnosis.cfm
doesnt sound very friendly, but if it is the reflux it may be worth it,
find a GP and ask to be put on the losec, its the best one by far,
:D
amysmumma
09-09-2008, 13:42
Hi everybody,:wave:
sorry to not have responded sooner. Have had trouble with computer & have only now been able to read all your latest words of support & advice.
I'm still fuming over my docs remarks & that my DH didn't back me up.
But I need to remember that i'm the one dealing solely with my DD for 19+hrs each day & i know it's not just a matter of me breastfeeding.
I asked my Dr if DD could be lactose intollerant. She laughed &said she would have diarrhoea, not constipation. Aaargh!!:hair:
Also asked about Neocate, she's never heard of it.
I'll definately get her off the S26, and i'll try the Mylanta.
We've tried infacol( worked well for burps, she burps well now without it) and Gaviscon infant (didn't do anything).
Tried coloxyl drops for 2full days, the first time she was constipated (day 5), and it didn't work. The ER doc said that we shouldn't be putting all these artificial substances in her body.
When I asked what he suggests we do to treat the constipation, he said if we get her off coloxyl, Zantac and formula then she wouldn't get constipated in the first place.
Well easier said then done.
At that point, we hadn't seen a Paed, and I wanted to wait to see what the Paed suggested.
Just to clarify, i'm on meds to increase my supply- Motillium. Never actually needed it, but it was one of my GPs theories as to why DD was so upset.
My Paed appt is on the 16th, so i'm going to go through and write down all the suggestions to take along.
I do prefer the idea of trying diff forms and definately want her off Zantac.
I'll ask about Losec. The Paed mentioned another med, though can't remember the name.
I'd rather not put her through the probes, but would be very grateful if anyone could explain what the PH probe involves.
If we decide to go that route then i want to be fully informed and I am definately not going to agree to the electrode probe.
The weekend was horrendous. :dizzy:
My DD has gotten markedly worse in the past week.
On Sunday from 7.30am until midnight, she slept 2 lot's of 1hr. The rest of that time was spent crying, except when she had a bath & for perhaps 20mins in the bouncer.
My DH actually said that he wished we never had her. That breaks my heart.
I've gotten to the point where i've been a blubbering mess on the floor after atotal of 8hrs sleep over a 3night period but i'd never wish her away, only her pain.
I keep thinking how terrible it is for us, but we are't the ones feeling pain and not understanding why.
I know we are so blessed to have a relatively healthy bub, and there are parents out there who are dealing with very sick bubs. It just doesn't make it any easier when my DD is crying for 6hrs straight.
Aaargh, have been typing away like a made woman, and it's all just disappeared.
Will have ti go & tend to DD, hopefully will get back to you soon.:hugs:
june05isttimer
10-09-2008, 12:15
Hi there
I have been following this thread of yours.
Please please don't give up. Your house hold is one that mimicked ours only almost a year ago now. I too was dealing with a two and half year old.
My dh was the same and he couldn't even touch her because he was so afraid he would hurt her because he couldn't handle the screaming. Nothing would break the cycle with my dd2 too and it almost tore the whole family apart.
I too was a blubbering mess everywhere we went but I continued to see dr's er's, peads til we got some answers.
Its hard as they are in so much pain but you can't do anything to fix it.
my dd2 didn't want to be nursed at all and was just stiff and red with eyes closed most of the time screaming. For me not being able to console my own child was the most heartbreaking.
Keep pushing... even if you can't wait til the 16th if you are close to you pead then you need to just turn up on his doorstep... we almost did that at one point but we were able to sort something out on the phone before it got to that point. It was mighty close though.
Please don't feel your alone in this as easy as it is. I felt completely alone when I had dd2 with her the way she was. Bubhub was a saviour to a degree though.
Having said that keep looking forward to that day that she is sorted out and is finally more settled. It took a while for us but its happened and although she still hates being cuddled and certainly won't be nursed to have a bottle, she is still a happy girl who is loved and the bond with her is stronger than ever.
My dh sort private counselling in the end about how he felt and it really helped him I think to talk about it and get it off his chest to someone he didn't know.
It took a while but the bond is growing between the two of them now and I don't feel that any permanent damage has been done.
Please please hang in there....
amysmumma
11-09-2008, 10:33
Hello everyone,:wave:
My mother arrived here on Monday & has been a remarkable help. Now, I only have to deal with the guilt as well, for her leaving my father (who has a terminal illness) to take care of us.
DH & I didn't cope very well with our DD on the weekend.
Instead of working as a team, we attacked each other(verbally).
There is a crack now in our marriage that I can't ignore. :(
Last night we spent the night apart (first time) and i'm sad to say I wish I could have one more night to sort out my head :dizzy:& also have the chance to deal with my bub, without the stress of feeling his anger and frustration.
I was starting to become afraid of my own DD.:eek:
The last week was such a shocker, and with the probs now with DH, I was afraid i'd just break and not be able to cope if she started again.
Monday morning, DD did a poo. It was very dk green (almost black) sludge.
As i was changing her, she started to open her bowels again, & this time it Looked pretty normal, thicker than norm but golden in colour.
I thought perhaps this meant that this would be the end of the constipation, but she hasn't gone since, and not from a lack of trying!!
Yesterday I gave her prune juice- 1tsp/20ml water. I'm not sure if that's the correct dose. Maybe she needs more.
I did try 1/2tsp brown sugar/40mls water for 2days last week and that worked. But i'm not sure if I like the idea of constantly giving my 10wk old sugar.
Also I want to find and stop the cause of the problem, not just keep treating it.
(I still think it's the Zantac!! despite my GPs assertion it's bf)
Well i'm happy to say my DD has been an angel fo the last 3days.:yelclap:
I even asked my mum if she was slipping her a sedative.
She has been crying less and sleeping better. Monday & Tues she slept for 6hrs straight.
DD isn't in as much pain. She still gets bowel pain but it hasn't built up(yet) to how it was.
DD still vomits alot up to 3hrs after a feed.
She's had a couple of distressing cries, but my mum has rugged her up (even at 8pm) and taken her for a walk.
My poor mum is 70, and she walked with her in her arms for 2hrs one morning. My arms ache after doing laps around the house for 20mins!!
The only prob is, it's not realistic to think i can just go out for walks everytime she cries or wont sleep.
The only things that are different (to warrant a change in DD) are my mum being here, DD has missed a couple of doses of Zantac (DH forgot) and she is only at day 3 of not using her bowels.
Me being a cynic, i won't believe my bub has been healed just yet.
I'm off to the health clinic to have her weighed today. After my GP said my DD was starving, i'd like some validation that she is doing well.
Now to just live in the moment & enjoy the calm bub and get rid of the anxiety waiting for the tornado to return. Hmmmm so much easier said than done. But i'll try.
Oh yeah i'm desperate to stay a cpl of weeks at my parents. I just can't see being able to travel 5hrs in a car with bub.
I can't even drive to the shops with out her screaming all the way. I certainly wouldn't be able to do it alone.
Does anyone have any advice, should I give up on the idea and stay here (I just feel so alone) or is there a way??
reAllytee
11-09-2008, 10:48
So have you stopped the formula or are you using both b/f & formula ?
Honestly even when i was doing both my little guy could still go up to 7days without pooing which is completely normal when b/f.
That poo you spoke of with the green sludge doesnt sound good but what came after was brilliant ! SO there is a chance that she is coming good as that may mean she got rid of any of the last of the S26 or whatever else was in her system.
You are aiming for the golden stuff that is 'normal' even green is within normal its when its hard as a rock or the black sludge that something isnt right iykwim.
Ummm I doubt it could be the Zantac but i could be wrong I would think you dramas come from the formula & stopping this will be the best thing all round.
Im sorry to hear about your hubby & your fighting .... I was the same with my DP we had loads of dramas when going through issues with G. I have even held resentment recently over how he treated me through it all. Its a hard road & dont think you are alone, we are all here for you to talk to anytime :hugs::hugs:
bossoflatch
11-09-2008, 11:29
are you fully breast feeding ??
my dd2 suffers terrible reflux / gut issues when i eat diary ..
she was getting bright green stools with mucus and was screaming when she passed them .. i had to take out diary ( and now wheat ) of my diet and now she is better.. we are getting runny brown poos ..
everytime i eat something new she doesnt like - she gets mucus in her motions - very refluxy and very upset..
its easier for me not to eat it then suffer with a reactive baby .. (although having dd1 who ive been thru this all before helps haha)
bossoflatch
11-09-2008, 11:33
the fact she got worse on formula does suggest its cows milk protein problems .. sorry i havent read all this.. newborn baby with reflux / protein probs myself make for little time anymore :laughing::laughing:
MyFourCubs
11-09-2008, 13:42
Just wanted to say hi- have been followign your post, just because I'm not replying doesn't mean I'm not here, just usually I read in the 10 mins I'm eating lunch, lol.
The probs with your dh- it is absolutley and utterly horrendous dealing with a baby that screams all day long. You are both exhauseted, stressed and over it. don't be so hard on your marriage- it's being tested but when you get through it:fingerscrossed: you'll be stronger than ever:) I used to ahve a lot of guilt with Alex, I thought it was my fault (the screaming) just because it was me that birthed him- nonsensical but it's easy to be nonsensical when you are falling apart. i was also scared of Alex- he was so temperamental i never knew what would set him off and when. (Still don't to a lesser degree!:rolleyes:) It was actually me that said one day that I wish we had never had him- I still remember it, we were both in the shower together (Matt & I- and not doing anything exciting, believe me,) we were both shattered after a shocking night and I remember dh didn't even have the energy to say anything- he just stood there with his head in his hands. Normally he was the strong one- Alex was his BOY the much awaited son and he defended him like mad. this particular day he couldn't argue. It is SO draining and so horrendous to live through- you WILL live through it though because you have to and one day you'll be writing a post like this on bubhub to someone else who is writing what you are writing now!:)
Your doctor sounds like an ABSOLUTE QUACK. Never heard of neocate?? Thinks breast feeding is the problem?!! WTF????!:eek: You need to find a new doctor, she is not helping you at all, she obviously is set in her opinions and isn't going to give an inch- ditch her and find some real help.
if you have stopped the formula this could be why your dd is more settled and probably because your mum is here so YOU are more relaxed. Bubs feed off us and it's a viscious cycle- the more stressed and anxious you are, the more upset they are.
Many, many of us ahve been int he same poisition you are in now. Don't be ashamed or afraid to say that you are feelig low or wishing you had never had her- who wouldn't at this point? But you are a great mum and you are doing everything you can for your daughter.:hugs:
Sara
I would say that having your mum there will no doubt reduce your stress and make you feel better about things.... Knowing you have help does amazing things.... I'm sure bubs is feeding off that too....
3 days 'settled' is great news....
Prune juice at this quantity is spot on....
Avoid sugar... keep going with this....
Maybe things are working themselves out and the zantac maybe kicking in properly....
It's really important not to miss a dose as it's accumulative and can upset the apple cart 'so to speak.....
Enjoy your mum.... My mum is 70 also and she is the most amazing woman i know.... It's ironic because she too left my dad who is not a well man to be with me during my really tough times with DS.... I cherished every moment...
Talk to you soon hun.... x x
Hi
Just wanted to say sorry for what you're going through with your DD - and that I can totally relate to some of your feelings (if you've seen my recent post, you'll know that!). Particularly about relationship with hubby... we are always arguing over our situation too. Mine thinks his son is just a 'cry-baby'... because we're already on Losec and Neocate, but bub still cries a lot, DH thinks that it must just be his temperament (whereas I think we haven't yet got to the bottom of his pain relief). DH has said on occasion that he hates him... but he dotes on our 3-yr old DD. I'm worried already how this is going to affect his relationship with DS in years to come... never mind about his relationship with me!!
BTW, my bub is having black/green poos at the mo too - and we're on Neocate and never had constipation problems!
Hope you're feeling a bit better now that you've got your mum there and hope you get some answers soon.
Hang in there... it's got to get better eventually (that's what I keep telling myself anyway!)
june05isttimer
12-09-2008, 12:43
Hi there
Am still following this post because its so like what our life has been like its not funny!
My Dh too has said those things and still does sometimes... I at times get really worked up and think awful thoughts too as sometimes you just wish they could be happy and content.
A constantly upset baby puts strain on every part of your life but you will get through it. We did or so far we have even though things are still tough at times in our household with an irritable almost 1yr old dd2.
My hubby was a bit like a previous post here.. hating dd2 but doting on our dd1 who is three. Its not easy at all to deal with but you have to just manage and get past it. They have to come good eventually.
I am so glad there are so many others here who have responded so you are not the only one going through this.
take care
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