View Full Version : Tooth decay in young toddlers..?
I had a good look at DS’s teeth today (8 all up, no molars as yet) and was horrified to see his upper eye teeth on each side have a decent-sized brown patch up near the gum. I have read on the net that this can already be tooth decay.
Ok, I’ve been giving him fluoride tablets since he was about 11mo (our water does not contain fluoride) but admittedly I have been pretty lax at cleaning his teeth and have really only just started doing it daily in the past couple of months.
I consider his diet to be pretty good with most of the sugar in it coming from fruit. He has never been formula fed but I still b/f thru the night on occasion. I don’t ever give him juice or soft drink and he doesn’t use a dummy.
Of course I’m going to take him to see my dentist ASAP but in the meantime, can anyone tell me if their little one’s have had brown teeth and if so, what sort of treatment did they need. Does it always mean cavities?
I feel quite sick. What kind of mother has her kid getting tooth decay at only 13mo?
Has he been on any antibiotics lately?
My dd1 just finished her 2nd course of antibiotics and its stained her teeth brown, and I brush her teeth 2 x a day.
My 28 mth old has had 2 spots on her teeth for a while now . . after a visit to the dentist it is because I breastfeed her over night . .
Basically. . when they feed .. the milk residue stays in their mouth . . when they sleep the bacteria feeds on it and thus the teeth start to decay . .
Matilda has a very bad one . . to the point that one of her teeth will probably fall out from being bad . .
Bewitched
27-08-2008, 07:52
I raised my DD in a country town without fluoride in the water so i used the drops like you do. It was hard getting in to brush her teeth without her biting me but i did my best when i could. She also had a very poor appetite so i had to give her Incremin medicine to provide vitamins and enhance her appetite, her teeth rotted so quickly that my poor 3 year old DD had to undergo a general anaesthetic in 1997 to have every single tooth repaired :( It took four hours for them to fix them all well enough to keep them in, she since grew a beautiful set of second teeth with no probs but i will never forget how scary that was. People looked at me with disgust, as if i had never brushed my childs teeth, it was very upsetting.
Thank you so much for your replies ladies:
Biene - Yes! He has just finished his 3rd round of antibiotics, all one after the other. It is comforting to know it could just be that. Have you spoken to a dentist about your DD at all?
KaM - So your dentist told you it was from b/f at night? That's what I was thinking too... but then I read somewhere that b/f'ing is not meant to affect their teeth like that because the nipple goes straight down their throat. However, when DS unattaches himself, he always has a mouth full of milk, so realistically there's no way his teeth escape it.
Bewitched - I have the same trouble with getting bitten. It's a massive task to clean his teeth - ironically, it's only now that I think they might be in trouble that I'm really getting serious about it. I'm sorry your DD had to go through all that, it sounds just awful and must have been difficult for you when people around you were putting in their unwanted 2 cents' worth.
Apparently the thinking now (I've spoken to several dentists about this) is that we shouldn't be giving kids fluoride tablets (as their teeth can get mottled if they have too much fluoride). I got confused and had given them to DD1 but stopped after I sought more opinions. I'm also in Qld where we don't have fluoride in the water.
It is however very important to try to clean bubs teeth, even if its with a clean damp cloth (as brush/toothpaste may be resisted).
My dentist has also said that diet is more important even than fluoride or cleaning, as tooth much sugar is bad - even too much fruit.
our little treasures
27-08-2008, 12:15
I bf all my children over night with no problems but we always brush their teeth.
I think it might be too late but they do recommend Moose which can help. My friends daughter had to have 4 teeth pulled and that was very hard, lucy they are baby teeth.
Apparently the thinking now (I've spoken to several dentists about this) is that we shouldn't be giving kids fluoride tablets (as their teeth can get mottled if they have too much fluoride).
Yeah I know all about dental fluorosis - I have it on my teeth. Mum took fluoride tablets when she was pregnant with me and gave them to me as a toddler (thinking she was doing the right thing) and my permanent teeth came thru a mess. But nevertheless, I didn't need a filling until I was about 17, so I guess there is something to be said for flouride supplements. Perhaps in small doses though!
I think it might be too late but they do recommend Moose which can help.
If you don't mind me asking, what is Moose?
Ouch, that must've been so traumatic for your friend's daughter. Poor wee thing.
I hadn't heard anything about kids having trouble with decaying little teeth until I started reading on here. I wonder if all my friends' kids have good teeth then???
Its called Tooth Mousse
Maybe they don't realise ..my daughter has it I believe because I had it as a baby also . . it might be a genetic traint
Breast milk actually has a component (can't remember the name off the top of my head) in it that fights the bacteria that causes tooth decay. Also, the milk doesn't pool in the mouth nearly so much as it only supplies milk with sucking. So breastfeeding through the night wouldn't cause decay :)
Do you brush his teeth? We got into the habit of brushing teeth as soon as they appeared, morning and night. Also, our boy gets water straight from the tap - not filtered or anything - so he gets some fluoride.
I hope it all works out okay :)
Oh and something I was reading earlier ... do you give your baby sticky fruits? Like muesli bars/dried fruit bars? Those things tend to stick to teeth and create breeding grounds for bacteria. Try to give them more water based (fresh) fruit instead or be diligent about brushing their teeth after each sticky fruit snack.
Breast milk actually has a component (can't remember the name off the top of my head) in it that fights the bacteria that causes tooth decay. Also, the milk doesn't pool in the mouth nearly so much as it only supplies milk with sucking. So breastfeeding through the night wouldn't cause decay
The studies I viewed at University would not support that comment Beany :) Have you seen any evidence of that? I would be intrested.
I BF during the night at 20mths and I am worried about the decay aspect of it.
I have indeed and the data is on the ABA/LLL website somewhere.
It's not a fool proof method and it isn't to be used instead of brushing but breastfeeding a clean mouth at night doesn't significantly add to the risks of tooth decay.
MilkOnTap
27-08-2008, 23:41
This is the first time I've ever heard about a link between breastfeeding and tooth decay. All the information and whatnot that I've ever read has confirmed that breastmilk is the healthiest thing for teeth, gut and general wellbeing of infants.
I'd be interested to read any journo article that advises otherwise...
I am going off what the dentist told me at the appointment when I took Matilda.
They said that anything left in the mouth over night can cause the start of decay as the mouth dries and they become active . . .
I don't know what else could have caused such bad decay on one of Matilda's teeth otherwise . there isnt much of that tooth left
I just found an article that said .. although breast milk alone can not cause decay .. when other substances are mixed with it . . it can become a pretty bad causer of decay
PRESS RELEASE: Breastfeeding and Infant Tooth Decay
(April, 1999)
Infants who are strictly breast fed are more resistant to tooth decay than those who are fed sugar-rich foods together with infant formulas and cow’s milk. But when sugary substances are alternated with breastfeeding, breast milk becomes a dangerous catalyst that can lead to rampant dental caries.
Pamela Erickson, DDS, PhD and researchers at the University of Minnesota investigated the decay potential of human breast milk. In laboratory studies, breast milk alone did not damage tooth enamel. But when combined with another sugar source, the breast milk/carbohydrate combination is highly cariogenic. Results of the study were published in the April issue of Pediatric Dentistry, the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry.
Researchers concluded that breast milk prohibits acid and bacterial growth in the mouth. However, breast milk has a "low buffering capacity" and does not buffer the addition of acid. When breast milk is alternated with sugar, the rate of caries development is faster than that of sugar alone.
From an oral health perspective, pediatric dentists believe that breast milk alone is indeed the healthiest option for infants. But introducing sugar from food and beverages into the infant’s diet while breastfeeding is hazardous. Gaining proper nutrition from breast milk or food is the primary goal of infant health, and early dental intervention and monitoring may be the best way to prevent early childhood caries in the breast- and bottle-fed infant.
Pediatric dentists recommend that parents schedule their child’s first dental examination when the first tooth erupts or no later than the first birthday. Infants who are evaluated by a pediatric dentist at an early age are less likely to develop dental caries and oral diseases that can interfere with nutrition, learning to speak, or oral-facial development.
Pediatric Dentistry is the bimonthly didactic publication of the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry. Pediatric dentists are primary care providers who also provide comprehensive treatment for infants, children, adolescents, and patients with special health care needs. aapd.org
As I said, it wouldn't be the breastmilk during night nursing causing the decay but the left over foods from the days eating. Breastmilk can't fight an entire day's sins but it can combat the potential decay it will cause at night.
I was told that bacteria is far more of a component to starting tooth decay than sugar.
This suggests that feeding from a bottle may add another component to the issue of tooth decay depending on whether teats are sterilised etc.
I was chatting to someone in another state the other day and she was telling me that her 4year old requires 6fillings - she said it's because kids don't get properly checked out till they're at school. I don't know - I help my children clean their teeth at least daily, and inspect them regularly - not a spot on them.
Maybe it's the flouride in Perth's water? Maybe it's because they were breastfed, maybe it's because I limit their sugar intake?
My guess - a combination of things, however, I read the article as saying that when a child is exclusively breastfed, there is no risk of decay whatsoever, it's only once they start having sugary foods etc. Which would lead me to believe that there is no difference to combination of formula fed risks to breastfed risks.
logiesmummy
29-08-2008, 14:11
My DS (2) has ddecayed teeth in his month! He was on antibiotics for nearly 8 months of his life and they have rotted out his teeth! We brush twice a day! He will have to have them out and i think this is so sad because i have been on the ball with it!
Hmmmmm..... all very interesting :detective:
As with everything, there is always so much contradictory information out there.
It makes me sad that all these little kids are losing their baby teeth at such a young age.... I seriously had nooo idea this could happen.
My DS (2) has ddecayed teeth in his month! He was on antibiotics for nearly 8 months of his life and they have rotted out his teeth! We brush twice a day! He will have to have them out and i think this is so sad because i have been on the ball with it!
OMG, I can't believe antibiotics can do this! At what stage did you get him to the dentist and what happens in regards to him having to get them out? I'm so very sorry :(
Beany, no I have never given DS those sticky fruit or muesli bars, nor fruit juice or flavoured milk. His fruit is always fresh or canned and I have always tried to give him water to drink straight after he's eaten. But as I said earlier, I have to admit I have been rather lax on the brushing up until he was about 11-12 mo.
Well, we have a dentist appt for Wed morning to get him checked out.... so we will see what the damage is.
Someone mentioned sultanas. Most kids (except my little freak, bless him!) seem to love sultanas and they are awful for teeth. Sticky, gunky, sugary mess. Be wary of those, too.
Someone mentioned sultanas. Most kids (except my little freak, bless him!) seem to love sultanas and they are awful for teeth. Sticky, gunky, sugary mess. Be wary of those, too.
Yeah?? Who would've thought. I guess DS is safe there, too!
JabberJaw
29-08-2008, 21:14
My daughter is now 5 but when she was 3 and a half she had 8 teeth removed as they had decayed so severely. Her 4 front top and a molar on both sides top and bottom. She had visited the dentist a few times and he would scrape her teeth and clean them regularly but eventually the decay won and if we had not had them removed her second teeth would also have been damaged. My dentist believes it was due to Ribena,,yep dumb me gave her ribena between breast feeds ( its what my mum said you give to kids for vit.C ) Her teeth where brushed after breakfast and also before bed.
I advise you see yr dentist a.s.a.p as my daughters teeth to be removed cost us $3500 and of course we did not have private health cover at the time :(
My son also has mild tooth decay but he luckily is 4 and is being treated through school dental, he has his teeth cleaned by them bi-monthly and we think it is under control till his second lot come through.
I am diligent about brushing there teeth, Daughter breastfed, son breastfed 3 months then formula...both ate home cooked baby food, fresh fruit but daughter drank alot more ribena than son.
My dentist said that fruit juice, even the 100% kind contained stacks of natural sugars that caused tooth decay. He said just give tap water! Of course my daughter did not like this idea at all after having yummy sugar laden ribena that contained no vitiman C anyway!!!
Good luck hope everything goes well
misskelz77, thank you so much for sharing your unfortunate story. And you are not dumb... you have been a diligent tooth-brusher and you've had your children on good diets! You were just doing what you thought (and were told!) was the right thing. Funnily enough, awhile ago my Mum also suggested Ribena and/or flavoured milk (when DS wasn't drinking much milk and I was worried about his calcium levels). I flat out refused and said if he's happy drinking water, why would I give him anything else. I'm so glad I didn't listen to her. If his teeth are bad enough as it is now, I hate to think what a few months worth of sugary liquids would have done on top.
Seeing as you are from Qld too and don't have fluoridated water, did your dentist not suggest fluoride drops or tablets for your kids?
What happens in the spaces where the teeth have been extracted - do they just stay as empty spaces?? Ouch, $3500, that's gotta hurt. We do have private health, but it'd probably only cover a few hundred of that anyway, lol.
So, anyone, just out of curiosity... what do teeth that badly decayed that they need to be removed actually look like?? Can you tell just from peering at them??
JabberJaw
29-08-2008, 21:57
Well my daughters teeth started to go brown around the edges near the gums before getting worse and worse and kind of flaking away, the dentist later said that her back molars crumbled when he was extracting them, he was hoping to save them by crowning them but couldn't. Because they where so extensively damaged he just pulled them out and they should grow back when she is about 6, so at the moment she has no top teeth (the front 4) we had to revert to cutting her food up like she was a baby till her gums hardened up, she can now get a good bite out of an apple with her gummy top and her teeth at the bottom!
My sons teeth started the same way, kinda brown around the edges, the school dentist said to brush his teeth as usual and them put a smear of adult toothpaste over his teeth as adult toothpaste contains the fluoride, i do do this and i cant be 100% sure that it is the thing that is working to stop his getting worse as he has them cleaned and he also no longer drinks ribena or juice only water!! A friend of mine also had the same problem and she told me her dentist painted something on her sons teeth to stop the decay.
My eldest has never had a problem with her teeth and she to was a ribena drinker,,by the gallons! the difference with her is that we lived in Townsville then and they put fluoride in there water.
I am in Bundaberg and they no longer provide fluoride tablets due to apparent risks although i feel i would beg to differ on that subject due to my eldest receiving fluoride and being a ribena drinker yet still having good teeth.
But see your dentist, he may even recommend fluoride for your bub. I personally don't think its just not brushing teeth that causes tooth decay, more a mixture of factors and i even think genetics may play a role although i have not got any facts to back up that theory!!
our little treasures
29-08-2008, 22:36
Someone mentioned sultanas. Most kids (except my little freak, bless him!) seem to love sultanas and they are awful for teeth. Sticky, gunky, sugary mess. Be wary of those, too.
:yes:They are really bad for teeth, that was the only really good advice I got from a maternal nurse:p
OP All you can do is go to the app on Wednesday and see what the dentist has to say. I find it difficult to be bm as I said my children fed 2hrly.
Also while there ask the dentist what they charge for check ups. I get my children to the dentist every 6mnths you need to start young:thumbsup:
Yes, well the fluoride issue opens up another whole can of worms, doesn't it. As I mentioned earlier, I got too much of it when I was a baby and my permanent teeth came thru horrendously discoloured and patchy, but I didn't have a single cavity until I was almost finished highschool. So I too think there is something to be said for fluoridated water. I have had DS on fluoride tablets for the past couple of months, but maybe that was too late too... like the brushing! A dentist I don't go to anymore (we moved to a different area) recommended giving them fluoride drops or tabs from about 5-6 months. Your daughter (and you!) must've found it really difficult to go back to eating like a baby for a while. And suddenly not having those cute little teeth anymore. I still think it is soooo sad how it can happen so quickly.
DS's teeth are exactly like that - brown around the edges at the gum-line. Now Wed can't come fast enough... but I'm scared at the same time!
JabberJaw
29-08-2008, 23:13
Sorry i didn't mean to scare you, but at least you have picked it up early and yr D'S might be able to get treatment to save them until he is going to lose them anyway, at about 5 or 6 the dentist told me.
Yes the fluoride debate is another kettle of fish and i don't know exactly where i stand on the matter myself as i have not looked into it to much.
Yeah it was hard for my daughter to go back to eating like a baby but i will say one thing, she is a changed child, a perfect angel now b4 we had so many problems with her but within a wk of removing her teeth she changed, our dentist said she would have been in alot of pain, although she never complained of it just chucked big tantrums, she now enjoys tasting different foods and seems to enjoy new flavors, but like i said hers where extensively decayed by the time they where taken out as the dentist tried to put it off as long as he could and they just got worse and worse.
Hopefully they catch yr DS in time as they have with my DS :fingerscrossed:
Good luck at the dentist!
Sorry i didn't mean to scare you, but at least you have picked it up early and yr D'S might be able to get treatment to save them until he is going to lose them anyway, at about 5 or 6 the dentist told me.
Ahhhh no, it's not you... it's this whole thread!! Thank you for your well-wishes and I hope you're right. I can only imagine the welcome change in behaviour of your daughter after her teeth were out; if there is a positive side to the whole scenario then that would have to be it. When you think about how uncomfortable it is for us when we need one filling, it goes without saying really. She probably didn't complain because she didn't know any different. I'm glad you've been able to halt the process in your DS.
I'll post again after we've been to the dentist and let you know how it went. I'm going to ask him (or her) about that 'sealant' stuff that they can paint over the kids' teeth too... a bit of added protection would be worth it, I think.
Hi all
Well I took DS to the dentist yesterday - as predicted he hated it and screamed as soon as she tried to get near his mouth.
Thankfully though, the visit was short and sweet and it seems his teeth are not decaying and that it's the antibiotics that have stained them. After a week of worry, I was sooooo pleased to hear that. Of course the staining is there for good now (until he loses the teeth), but I can deal with that! The dentist recommended only using antibiotics when totally necessary and also to stay right away from one called tetracycline as that can seriously harm the enamel formation of permanent teeth.
She said DS is old enough now (he is 13mo) to be using a low-fluoride toothpaste (which is preferrable to fluoride tablets for those of you in Qld). Another visit apparently isn't needed until he is 3, but I think I'll take him back in 12 months' time, just to check all is as it should be.
JabberJaw
04-09-2008, 14:28
Well thats great news. I didnt even know antibiotics did that to teeth, glad your worry is.
Thank you heaps misskelz77...
I know, me too. It's amazing the things you learn as you go along, hey.
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