Just what is a Christian?

[Supermum]

An interesting question popped up this morning.

I told a work colleague (good Catholic girl:) ) that I am thinking of sending my children to the local primary Catholic School. We are not Catholic, in fact I would say my husband and I are agnostic. Our intention has always been to educate our children in the different religions and they can make up their own minds when they are old enough. We strongly believe in personal choice. This doesn’t mean that we don’t live by and support the values embraced by most faiths. We are considerate and kind people and we are raising our children the same way.

She asked what religion I intended to cite on the application form. Are you a Christian she asked to which I immediately responded no. She asked if I believed in Jesus and I shot back a no … and then stopped myself.

I do actually believe in Jesus. I believe he was conceived the same way the rest of us are. I believe he was a man but not the son of God. He was a great and good man. I believe he was a leader and incredibly charismatic prophet who lived a humble and just life and that the stories in the bible are purely metaphorical writings which support the very essence/ideology of Chrisitianity.

She said I was a Christian. But I don’t believe in Christ so that cancels it out doesn’t it? Pardon my ignorance but don’t you have to believe in the holy trinity to be deemed a Christian?

[Supermum]

Just as I thought ... and no, I don't believe that Jesus is my lord and saviour. I actually don't think I need saving but that's another story. Best I go and tell my Catholic friend to update her religious eduation.

[Tea Lady]

You're right supermum that it takes more than believing that Jesus existed or having certain values to be a christian. It's quite simple to know if you're a christian or not - like BrookeC said it's about whether or not you trust him to have taken the guilt of your sin. Your work colleague may be a bit hazy on what a christian actually is! Lots of people think that if they are Australian and believe in God that makes them a christian (ie Aus is a "christian country" ...... I don't think!) but I think that attitude is changing (as it should).


If you want to know more I'd be happy to answer any Qs :)

[WeThree]

Hey Debs, like the other ladies have said, a Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, has asked for forgiveness of their sins and who make it part of their daily lives to live by Gods word and to pray and study his word.
Im intrigued though that you are considering a Catholic school though, as part of your childs daily teaching they will be taught Catholic doctrine ( I know I wouldnt be happy with that, but Im not a Catholic, lol) are you comfortable with that?

[MilkOnTap]

Christianity to me is about Relationship, NOT Religion... I am a Christian, and I believe that God sent his only son to the earth to die on the cross. By shedding his blood, Jesus covered the sin of the world that we may enter into Heaven when our earthly bodies are gone; or on the day of his return.

It upsets me when I see people who call themselves Christians who dont have a relationship with the Lord. I dont see Christianity as a 'Religion' but as a way of outwardly expressing our faith for the world to see :)

[Supermum]

Your work colleague may be a bit hazy on what a christian actually is!
A bit hazy Tea Lady ... I think she's stuck in an impenetrable fog. She confused me for a minute this morning because as far as I was concerned I have NEVER been a Christian. Different strokes for different folks I say. Thanks for the info though and shall keep you in mind for my next theological quandry:) .

Im intrigued though that you are considering a Catholic school though, as part of your childs daily teaching they will be taught Catholic doctrine
Hey coops - I don't have a problem at all. Like I said, our children will be educated about the teachings of most mainstream faiths. I was as a child and chose to support none of them - leaning towards Buddhism over the past few years though. I worked at a Catholic school for 3 years and have a good understanding of the ethos. I like the Pastoral Care programs and the effort that they put into embracing what it is to be a good Christian ... it goes hand in hand with what it is to be a good person.

It upsets me when I see people who call themselves Christians who dont have a relationship with the Lord
Like I said - I have never been a Christian and never purported to be one. Doesn't mean I want to rob my children of the right to choose. In order to choose they have to be informed and educated. I love the fact that my parents gave me the choice. Religion is such a personal issue for me and I want my children to exercise the right when they are old enough to understand the meaning behind and underlying values of faith.

[WeThree]

Hey coops - I don't have a problem at all. Like I said, our children will be educated about the teachings of most mainstream faiths. I was as a child and chose to support none of them - leaning towards Buddhism over the past few years though. I worked at a Catholic school for 3 years and have a good understanding of the ethos. I like the Pastoral Care programs and the effort that they put into embracing what it is to be a good Christian ... it goes hand in hand with what it is to be a good person.


That is the nice thing about alot of the Catholic and Christian schools, the values they teach are not just important to someone who is a Christian.

[SixtiesChild]

A Christian is someone who has given their life over to God.
After dying on the cross He has payed a ransom for everyones life. Those who choose to give themselves over are the Christians. God presses no one - It is a free choice.

[shinebrite]

I do actually believe in Jesus. I believe he was conceived the same way the rest of us are. I believe he was a man but not the son of God. He was a great and good man. I believe he was a leader and incredibly charismatic prophet who lived a humble and just life and that the stories in the bible are purely metaphorical writings which support the very essence/ideology of Chrisitianity.


Im a christian and what the other girls have said is SO true! :yes: ~you guys rock~

Anyway from my point of veiw and on what uve said above, just to throw a spanner in the works...kinda not really but eventhe devil believes in God, in fact they have met each other several times in the bible! Satan actually lived in heaven and he was heavens 'head of the music' department up until the fall, of course, but the ONE key thing is in this subject IS that he DOES NOT have a personal relationship with God.

Having a relationship with God is about firstly accepting and publically saying your sorry for the things you have done wrong in Gods eyes (everyone sins! but God makes us righteous). Also a part of this commitment (covenant ur making) is being prepared to make a change and a difference in your life and not going back to the "old ways".

Its a pretty simple task but from then on the temptation of sinning and not living a Godly life come about, which includes; daily prayers (talking to God) reading his word so that you can come to know the fullness of a christian life and just reflecting Jesus in your heart. And also listening to what Gods point of veiw is on situations and letting him be your guide (which is when the holy spirit comes in to action).

Being a christian IS not an easy thing to do we get mocked and cursed at, but the 'benefits' are amaizing. Your life is TOTALLY changed, turned upside down and SOMEHOW things seem easier to acomplish because you have God by ur side protecting you every which way you go!

I LOVE being a christian! when life doesnt seem worth living he makes it worth while! Its SO nice to have this person to talk to when u get down and trust that when things arent going right, God will make it better. you might learn a tad from the nasty experience but you WILL come out a better person!

And then there are the blessings God has instore for us! Numerous amounts of times me and my DH have struggled. we might of not been paid from some of the jobs Dh does (he owns his own business) and we might have NOTHING in the cupboard to eat but its actually funny how it works cause someone might ring us up and want to take us out to dinner at that time or invite us over for dinner, even cook and bring us dinner over.... these are just some of the evidences of gods blessing in a chrsitian life that are continually amazing me and Just make me want to Bless him and serve him as humbly as I can!

Sorry I know I just blabbed WAY to much then but Gods love amazes me SO much that i cant keep it in!

Sending your child to a catholic school would b nice, they will definatly learn the essence and importance of religion but the only way to actually experiencing this LOVE and ABUNDANCE is by having a relationship with him that is So personal it will blow your mind!

HTH :hugs:

[Mister Noodle]

Who gets to define the term?

There's billions of people that call themselves christians all over the planet, and they all have their own definition of the term, each with their own necessary / sufficient conditions for christianity

What makes one particular group right and the others wrong?

How would you go about proving it either way?

[WeThree]

Chris·tian
adj.

Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
Showing a loving concern for others; humane.n.

One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

I think lots of people have answered Supermums question, and whilst I can often appreciate threads that go off on a tangent Im pretty sure Debs wasn't looking to be converted and Mr Noodle, it is what it is.;)

[alicesmum]

I thought you'd show up sooner or later Mr Noodle!!! :p

I called myself a 'Buddhist Christian' the other day (having grown up the latter and embraced the former). Many christians would probably say I simply cannot be such a thing. But how do they know? Who else is to comment on your understanding of, or relationship, with god?

Supermum - I am thinking of sending our kids to Catholic schools as well. They are a much more progressive bunch these days !!! ;)

[Bessie]

Great reply shinebrite, that's what it means to me too!

In reply to MisterNoodle, the evangelical alliance has published a "basis of faith" to address your question, also to guide people when you can get various cults etc. calling themselves "Christian"... the following is all taken from the bible. It might be a tad long winded for most of us but have a read if you're interested.
I'd say that certain groups like the JWs wouldn't fit in as they don't agree with the deity of Christ for instance... but most other Christian groups would subscribe to all of this. There are of course areas of doctrine we might disagree on from time to time, but we have a lot more in common than that.

Anyone looking at a new church should be able to ask for a "statement of faith" which should clearly set out what the view of the church is. Some are very detailed... others a bit simpler.

"We believe in...

The one true God who lives eternally in three persons—the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The love, grace and sovereignty of God in creating, sustaining, ruling, redeeming and judging the world.
The divine inspiration and supreme authority of the Old and New Testament Scriptures, which are the written Word of God—fully trustworthy for faith and conduct.
The dignity of all people, made male and female in God's image to love, be holy and care for creation, yet corrupted by sin, which incurs divine wrath and judgement.
The incarnation of God’s eternal Son, the Lord Jesus Christ—born of the virgin Mary; truly divine and truly human, yet without sin.
The atoning sacrifice of Christ on the cross: dying in our place, paying the price of sin and defeating evil, so reconciling us with God.
The bodily resurrection of Christ, the first fruits of our resurrection; his ascension to the Father, and his reign and mediation as the only Saviour of the world.
The justification of sinners solely by the grace of God through faith in Christ.
The ministry of God the Holy Spirit, who leads us to repentance, unites us with Christ through new birth, empowers our discipleship and enables our witness.
The Church, the body of Christ both local and universal, the priesthood of all believers—given life by the Spirit and endowed with the Spirit's gifts to worship God and proclaim the gospel, promoting justice and love.
The personal and visible return of Jesus Christ to fulfil the purposes of God, who will raise all people to judgement, bring eternal life to the redeemed and eternal condemnation to the lost, and establish a new heaven and new earth."

[Tea Lady]

The Bible itself says it was the disciples of Jesus who were first called christians (the term was coined in a place called Antioch) Acts 11:26.
I say the first ones in get dibs on the name :D

[Supermum]

[QUOTE=coopsntillyI think lots of people have answered Supermums question, and whilst I can often appreciate threads that go off on a tangent Im pretty sure Debs wasn't looking to be converted ..............[/QUOTE]

Indeed coops!:thumbsup:

[shinebrite]

Great Response Shinebrite! you are a wonderful woman of GOD!

:o fanks its taken me a FEW years to get to that point and Im still being tried and tested as every christian life should be! thanks...

[MilkOnTap]

Well said ShineBrite... :thumbsup:

SuperMum - please forgive my lack of eloquence... I'm 21 years old and STILL learning how to string my words together properly! lol :laughing:

[kymmy]

I am Christian,
I believe in Christ,
that Jesus died for me
and all that would believe in Him

I believe that He is all powerful
That He has a plan
And everything happens for a reason

[SixtiesChild]

Mister Noodle,

Your questions are very valid & you are not alone in asking these questions. Both non-Christians & Christians are puzzled by these discrepancies.
Whilst people will always attempt to define what a Christian is/isn’t, actually they do not have the final authority to do so. That is reserved for God.
Christians, who are willingly under His authority know this and then there are the Christians that are yet to understand.
There is a natural process that occurs when a person uses freedom to allow Christ into their heart. It is a kind of renewal of the heart that can be seen by a person through their own retrospect as well as others.
The proof is the indwelling of God in the believer and is outwardly expressed through the action of selfless deeds.
A Christian can be very simply defined as “selfless”.
Everything they do and say is for the development and well being of another.
Jesus demonstrated this by giving His life for humanity. He gave and gave and gave – He never took, but gave His all, even to the very end.
This is how you can tell who is a true “Christian.”
The true Christian always works and lives for others.
A Christian is not defined by religion, sect, country or colour, but by the words and deeds that proceed from the heart.
As Jesus said: “By their fruit you will recognize them” Matthew ch7 v16
(“Them” meaning non-Christians & artificial Christians)

[alicesmum]

A Christian can be very simply defined as “selfless”.
Everything they do and say is for the development and well being of another.
Jesus demonstrated this by giving His life for humanity. He gave and gave and gave – He never took, but gave His all, even to the very end.
This is how you can tell who is a true “Christian.”
The true Christian always works and lives for others.
A Christian is not defined by religion, sect, country or colour, but by the words and deeds that proceed from the heart.


nadia
i like your definition, very much.

i guess this makes the Dalai Lama, Ghandi and other selfless folk who have offered up every single iota of their existence for the good and service of others Christian (Christ-like) as well. :p

[Mister Noodle]

Heh, burn.

If it comes to that, Islam defines all human beings as muslims - just some of us don't realise it yet.

For ten bonus points, deny one claim while retaining the other :P

[Supermum]

SuperMum - please forgive my lack of eloquence... I'm 21 years old and STILL learning how to string my words together properly! lol :laughing:
I have the same issues at 37:o

[Frazzled]

Christianity to me is about Relationship, NOT Religion... I am a Christian, and I believe that God sent his only son to the earth to die on the cross. By shedding his blood, Jesus covered the sin of the world that we may enter into Heaven when our earthly bodies are gone; or on the day of his return.

It upsets me when I see people who call themselves Christians who dont have a relationship with the Lord. I dont see Christianity as a 'Religion' but as a way of outwardly expressing our faith for the world to see :)


i get that you are saying that this is your opinion but i am confused? Can you clarify for me why you don't see Christianity as a Religion? I know your personal definition is that is about a relationship but fact has it that Christianity is a religion...

I think that Coops gave a good response.

To be a Christian is to be 'Christ-like'. So, if we believe in Jesus, we aspire to be like him, he is our role model, teacher. That's how I explain it in brief to my students.


Christianity is one of the five major world religious traditions (therefore a religion, alongside Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism).
Having said that, Christianity is the religious tradition and you then have branches - these are called denominations. Catholicism, Protestant, Pentecostal etc are all denominations. So, I am a Christian of the Catholic faith. Can someone explain to me why people who say they are 'christian' think they are different to catholic or anglican (for example) christians? I know that our denomination is different, but as people who belong to the same religious group, we all believe in the same God. I am not meaning to have a go here, its just something i dont get my head around????

[WeThree]

You are right Kate, Catholisicm etc are all denominations of the Christian Religion. Even though some of us might not be comfortable with the idea of it being so, again it is what it is.

[Mister Noodle]

See, the problem is that far too often when people say 'christian', they're generally equivocating between 'nice person' and 'follower of Jesus': X is a christian, therefore X is a nice person, by definition.

Don't get me wrong, the two are far from mutually exclusive - but trying to make one label serve both purposes makes an awful mess.

If you interpret it to mean that 'nice person' is a synonym for 'follower of Jesus', then you demolish the concept of niceness - there can be no admirable qualities except for religious belief, which you must admire quite arbitrarily. And, of course, you exclude the possibility that anyone who's not a christian can be nice.

Conversely, if you interpret 'follower of jesus' to be a synonym of 'nice person', then you demolish the relevance of Jesus' teachings, and water down the concept of 'christian' to have nothing whatsoever to do with their religious / spiritual / metaphysical / etc. beliefs, making Gandhi a christian - which is absurd.

It also leads to the No True Christian argument:

A: Nice <---> Christian
B: What about hitler / the spanish inquisition / Fred Phelps / etc?
A: Oh, but they weren't true christians
B: How do you make that out?
A: They weren't nice!
B: So only nice people are christians?
A: That's what I said.
B: :banghead:

And of course, if you don't equivocate the two meanings, you get even worse trouble further down the track...

[Saraswati]

I love reading your arguments Mr Noodle.

Back on the subject of Catholic schools - I am also going to send my children to a catholic primary school. I went to one myself and found it to be a really loving environment. My own spiritual orientation is an eclectic mix - I like to meditate and use visualisation, but then I also like to pray to God / Jesus / Sai Baba / guardian angels / whomever is listening! What does that make me?

I don't like the idea of my child being brainwashed or guilt-tripped into believing in one religion at school but for some reason (and this is may be totally without basis) I feel like this is less likely to happen at a Catholic school than at a strictly Christian one. My mum's a Catholic school primary teacher and the Catholic schools in general really do seem to have chilled out a lot - my own mother even spent time in an ashram in India with me! They seem to be a lot more open minded these days.
The thing I like about the Catholic school system is that the principals hire and fire the teachers so you're more likely to get a family of teachers that go well together - and it doesn't hurt that they're all out to impress the principal.

[xkwzit]

Hiya Kate

Maybe because I've belonged to a number of different denominations (and been comfortable with them all), I don't think the differences between most are important. Catholic/anglican/Salvation Army/whatever, they all have "club" rules that are at the periphery of the faith. Most of the well known denominations all believe that Jesus was the son of God, come to sacrifice himself for our sins. We have all repented and been saved by faith through the grace of God. I believe everything else is peripheral and any difference is only superficial.

I'm much more comfortable describing myself as a Christian rather than any specific denomination. I'm interdenominational :D

Cheers

[Frazzled]

Thanks for your input xkwzit. A very level headed way of looking at things. Yes, I agree that the differences between most denominations are minimal but I get this feeling that there are groups of people who say they are 'Christian' but think that they are totally separate to 'other' Xians? Does that make sense? Like I had someone tell me that I was not a Christian, i was Catholic - not really realising tha Catholics are Christians too.??? anyway, thats not what this thread is really about... just something that makes me confused. :confused:

[xkwzit]

Hi Kate
I see what you are saying...I just think some of those ppl get caught up in stuff that isn't important (but hey, I don't know diddly squat about them...so I can't really make a judgment). As long as they don't get you down - all's well:thumbsup: .

Cheers