Pros and cons of living OS

[FishFace]

Dh has been offered yet another chance to live OS.
this one is 2 years in London and 2 in New york.

Our kids are 6 and 4 ..

What are the pros and cons?
DH has friends in london and ALOT of family in Ireland.
We know no one in NY but will be going with another family.

They want a quick turn around of 6 - 9 months on the move.
What advice do you have...?

[FishFace]

anyone?

[Ashleigh<3]

If it were me, the only thing finalizing the decision would be money.
London and New York = both expensive living.
Rent is pretty steep.

But I'd do it in a heart beat.
Can you imagine the experience you'd get from living in two separate countries in less the four years? GAH! I'd be in love.

And BROADWAY! AHHHH.

Do you have room for me?

EDA: You would make friends as you go along. The kids will be in school, you'll no doubt bump into some other parents, etc. :)

[FishFace]

If it were me, the only thing finalizing the decision would be money.
London and New York = both expensive living.
Rent is pretty steep.

But I'd do it in a heart beat.
Can you imagine the experience you'd get from living in two separate countries in less the four years? GAH! I'd be in love.

And BROADWAY! AHHHH.

Do you have room for me?

EDA: You would make friends as you go along. The kids will be in school, you'll no doubt bump into some other parents, etc. :)


Thanks so much Ash.

It will all be paid for..well moving costs rent and car..so that makes it easier!

Def have room for you!

[Pixie]

wellllll I can tell u a bit lol I will in a while jusy going out BBL

[Teley]

I think it would be the opportunity of a life time, especially London! And they're safe countries too, cultures are pretty similar (as in more similar than if you moved to Greece or something), language is the same, so it woulnd't be that much stress on the kids.

Not that I'm moving overseas anytime soon -- but if I had the chance I certainly would! p.s. you better have room for us too lol!

[Pixie]

First off do you know the area DH will be working?
After that it makes choosing a area easier. His willingness to travel via Tube/bus etc

Rent is steep we live in central London so we are paying quite a lot.

Pro's less rain than Sydney true fact didn't believe it myself until I came here lol
Shopping is to die for
Europe is close by
Good Schools as long as you're in a good area. Some are hard to get into you are zoned by the area you live in etc
Groceries cheaper than Sydney. Choices not as good mind you.
Lots of parks and open spaces loads of free mueseums (sp) can never spell that bloody word!!
Lots of other things to do especially for kids of your age.

cons, far away from family but somehow I don't think this is a bad thing lol & you get use to it. The weather can get you down when it's grey but you get over it.
& rent is high thats the only bad things I think. The country is a mess but no worse than any other country presently in the western world!

NYC great city have two friends who live here now but have lived there as well as my brother they love it very similar except NYC is much safer than London thanks to that Rudy guy. It gets bloody freezing there and very hot!

Let me know if you want to know anything else

[vanillabean]

I probably wouldn't think twice about it. You will never get another opportunity like it and your kids are young. I recently said to DH if he could get a transfer with his job for a year or two, I would be up for it, but have had a few life changing things happen recently.

[MamaLlama]

I live in NY. Pros - REALLY convenient lifestyle. I posted in the working mums and dads section about how I need a new routine when we move back, I've been spoiled. You can easily be walking distance from everything, the public transport is great and absolutely anything can be delivered free or cheaply. Most buildings have doormen who handle security and delivery as well as small maintenance issues. It is really nice. I recommend Manhattan in particular. The child care (for after school or round the edges) is good but you need quite a long lead time and often can't book until you've done a tour so a year before you arrive you would be advised to do a trip and do a bunch of pre-arranged tours to get on waiting lists. The reputable places don't require a deposit. Schools for kids 6 and 4 (and ageing)... there are good public schools here but they require you to live in the catchment so you should check out before you move. Also there are big "processes" to getting in, a bit too much like private schools. I'm kind of grateful DS is too young for all that. But check out The Parents LEague of New York (google) and for a small membership fee they will help you do everything and give you the inside info on schools.

Cons - well being away from family is the big one. Yes it is a high cost of living city but its mainly in the rent. Food is cheaper here though not as nice I think (I mean the produce at the grocery or even farmers markets is not as nice as Australia). But I think that's true in London too. If you're used to a backyard it is a bit of a shock but try living near one of the big parks (either Central Park, though its too big for me), Madison Square Park, Washington Sq Park, Bryant Park or even the smaller ones often have nice playgrounds.

You won't need a car in Manhattan and it will cost a fortune to keep in an offsite garage because nowhere has parking at their apartment. I know only 1 person who owns a car here and he pays to have it kept round the corner. But the subway is awesome, cheap and efficient. Not very clean on some lines but most are improving. East side is better above the Village in my view, west side is better below it.

I haven't lived in London but many friends have. Totally depends on where you are there, more than in Manhattan I think, London's much more heterogenous. A friend in Islington and another in Clapham really liked it.

My recommendation is to do a trip here and spec the place out a bit (try to put a couple of days aside with no sightseeing just to see the neighbourhoods and plan ahead to check out schools/amenities at the same time). I really didn't get to know NY until I'd lived here a year and you can't replicate that but you can at least put your toe in. Get the "not for tourists" guide book - its on amazon I think. It is REALLY useful and will tell you a lot about the neighbourhood, what's there and what's lacking and what it feels like without even seeing it for yourself. These guys are pretty spot on in their assessments. It has hardly any illustrations yet paints a more realistic picture than any lonely planet.

GL!

[Ashleigh<3]

The medical system is brilliant in London, isn't it?

I'd be investing in medical insurance when in the States.
If not, eeeek, be prepared to fork out up to $400+ if your child needs to visit the hospital.
Be prepared to have to pay a tremendous amount of money in order to give birth- unless you have a home birth- would be much cheaper, like 10-20k cheaper lol.

If you need to have surgery, FLY HOME FLY HOME. :p
My friend went to the states for a holiday, she was there for one month and developed a sore throat. She went to the Doctor, they made her go to the hospital and they removed her tonsils then gave her a bill for 10k. She was only visiting. :eek:
The plus side of that is that they do take care of you, the waiting lists aren't long, if they see a problem they take care of it asap- BUT the down side is the cost.:dizzy:
Some people say it's worth it.

My Mummy says I was worth the 25k she had to pay to give birth to me, I tell her she's crazy! :p

Check with your hubby to see if his work would be willing to offer a family medical deal, I know some companies offer that.

[MamaLlama]

Just do not be uninsured in the US. In fact you probably won't be let in as you'd need to show that you could cover medical costs which no one could.

It is totally weird in the States, you get health insurance through your job, so your DH's work should take care of it all. And yes that's why 50% of people are underinsured because the unemployed, retired, self employed, small business workers and minimum wage earners tend not to have insurance. It was a major thing against Walmart that they don't provide health cover for employees. Basically if your job doesn't you don't get it because privately it is prohibitively expensive.

So get insurance. Cigna, Aetna and Oxford are 3 biggies I know of but you don't get much choice it is just what the employer provides. If you get a choice go for an HMO not a PPO, the premiums are higher but you are less out of pocket overall and the coverage is better.

The UK has some reciprocity with medicare but I don't know how reliable it is. The US is the only OECD country without an equivalent to medicare. Shame on them.

And it isn't just that it costs $400 to go to the hospital. Many drs will simply refuse to see you unless you're insured. I had to see an out-of-network Dr once (unlike with MBF etc different Drs accept different plans and won't see you if you're not on one they subscribe to). But if you have no insurance they won't see you at all. I once had that problem and I offered to pay upfront (my insurance wasn't on his list) and they said "starts at $450 for a consultation and depending how long can go to $800). That's for a 10 min meeting!! Hospitals cost way way more. BTW it turned out to be $600 for my consultation and I fianlly got the insurer to approve out of network so I did get it paid for in the end, months later.

[Ashleigh<3]

Just do not be uninsured in the US. In fact you probably won't be let in as you'd need to show that you could cover medical costs which no one could.

It is totally weird in the States, you get health insurance through your job, so your DH's work should take care of it all. And yes that's why 50% of people are underinsured because the unemployed, retired, self employed, small business workers and minimum wage earners tend not to have insurance. It was a major thing against Walmart that they don't provide health cover for employees. Basically if your job doesn't you don't get it because privately it is prohibitively expensive.

So get insurance. Cigna, Aetna and Oxford are 3 biggies I know of but you don't get much choice it is just what the employer provides. If you get a choice go for an HMO not a PPO, the premiums are higher but you are less out of pocket overall and the coverage is better.

The UK has some reciprocity with medicare but I don't know how reliable it is. The US is the only OECD country without an equivalent to medicare. Shame on them.

And it isn't just that it costs $400 to go to the hospital. Many drs will simply refuse to see you unless you're insured. I had to see an out-of-network Dr once (unlike with MBF etc different Drs accept different plans and won't see you if you're not on one they subscribe to). But if you have no insurance they won't see you at all. I once had that problem and I offered to pay upfront (my insurance wasn't on his list) and they said "starts at $450 for a consultation and depending how long can go to $800). That's for a 10 min meeting!! Hospitals cost way way more. BTW it turned out to be $600 for my consultation and I fianlly got the insurer to approve out of network so I did get it paid for in the end, months later.

I'm obviously ten years behind then, the prices have certainly accumulated.:eek:

[Pixie]

True we have a reciprocal agreement with Australia with medical needs here in the UK it's the NHS

Ash it's OK it's not fantabulous here Australia is far better and more medically advanced than here. I know that for fact having worked in the private system in Australia for 7 years. But they do take good care of you. We have very few walk in centres all DR's are Appt only or you can wait as an emergency you get seen within 2 hours. I hate this so I paid few weeks ago $300 for a home visit. I got excellent service lol

Islington & Clapham are OK areas but not as safe as they use to be. London has some serious issues presently I thnk 27 young people have been murdered this year all black, all killied by other teenagers. There is some serious social issues in the poorer areas Lewisham etc but they are further out & few white people live there. Kinda like Sydney you get the Italian area etc this is the African area.

[Lastcenturymum]

Oh just saw this!

Different situation to you, but now is the time with little kids to do it. They are so adaptable.

Check out what costs you have to cover. Obviously you wouldn't be shipping all your stuff so that saves a lot (it costs a fortune and takes ages) Most places over here are rented fully furnished. London isn't cheap to rent, but then most places aren't. The advantage of being close to so many places is a bonus. We have a list of 5 must visit places and 5 hope to visit places while here.

Flights home are a pain - get people to come and visit - and stay in their own places :D

As a woman, I will say it takes a while to settle into a new country. At first I felt like I was on Mars. My husband had been here a lot first and found a place to rent. But he went to work all day and I felt like a princess in an ivory tower. Previously he had worked at home, so I felt very lonely - thank goodness for the internet, but it doesn't replace people. I knew about 2 people here.

I have one friend with a 2 year old and about to have her second. She has found it really hard to meet people - as she half jokes, she only meets 'other refugees' not locals. Ireland is a fairly closed society. UK might be different. At least with older kids you get to met others through their friends and activities. But you have to be upfront and outgoing.

I can't work at this stage, so that has been hard, but for me it's been getting involved in a good friendly church where I have made friends. Heck they even had me working in the office this week!

We have done lots of travel locally (a car is essential for us) but I have also never lived so close to a city and in an apartment.

It has taken me a good six months to feel settled and I have had to work hard at that.

My goal was to meet someone I knew in the street, I was overjoyed when it happened! And last week I got a text saying 'wanna meet for coffee in 30mins' YEEHAA!

Get to know people in your community. We chat to the hairdresser now, the girls in the post office (stuckup, but I still chat away) the waiter at one of our restaurants says hi now when we see him in the street. We are on first name terms with the guys in the Indian restaurant (Rajab and Russell!! brothers! Go figure) The guy at our gym, when we do spinning classes he chats and no one else talks, except us Aussies! He loves it.

Establish rituals. We go to the same place for breakfast Saturdays and they know us now. We met a guy and his cute little son there and chat. We go to the local pub Sunday arvos for a cider and packet of pringles!! We talk to people walking their dogs.

Re health, here it is very different to home and I make all sorts of appointments when I go back, dentist, Dr etc. I had to have a medical procedure last year and luckily had it done when in Oz. Also got a crown on a tooth while there.

Schooling is VERY different in the UK. My inlaws moved when they had a 13 and 15 year old. It was very traumatic and too different at that age for Aussie kids.

Cant' speak for NY but others have.

Expect to feel homesick. It does happen. make sure you have a computer with skype and camera, skypeout to call and expect that your friends will drop off as they get on with their lives at home and not ask a lot of questions about your exciting life. I found that hard, but then just got over it.

I love exploring a new city and country - its such fun.

if you are shy you will have to force yourself to be outgoing, even if you get looked at like you have two heads. It's not easy, but I reckon you (and us!) are at the best stage to do it

[FishFace]

Thaaaaank you so much for all your advice its priceless.

We have lived OS before ...Dublin!!! for 1 year But it was nto for work it was for family.

We will be living in Surrey in England..thats without question.

DH has a letter outlining costs and stuff..
they will pay all relocation costs..
rent for 6 months in each city.
a car and petrol
health insurance
storage for stuff here
1 flight home a year!

So its sounding pretty loovely.

I have so much to look into and thanks to you lovlies I have an idea of things to look at.

Thank you soo much.

[Nickyps]

Oh, I wouldn't even hesitate if DH was offered a position like that.

I met my DH while living in London, we then moved out to Surrey. Whereabouts is Surrey will you be going? Some parts are BEAUTIFUL...

[FishFace]

Oh, I wouldn't even hesitate if DH was offered a position like that.

I met my DH while living in London, we then moved out to Surrey. Whereabouts is Surrey will you be going? Some parts are BEAUTIFUL...


Cobham...

Thats the area we are looking. Dh has friends there!!

I am so excited

[jaq]

How weird. I turned down a job in Cobham just before I got pregnant and we decided we wanted Aussie babies, not little Brits!

I say go, go, go. It will be brilliant. You get to have a weird accent and London and NY are true world cities ... being a stranger/alien is the norm, not the exception.

We lived in Twickenham, on the south eastern fringe of London (Surrey starts across the river!) and it was a wonderful, wonderful lifestyle. Access to the trains, access to the parks, access to pretty much anyplace.

We were Australian, our neighbours were Scots and Polish and from Bristol and the Midlands and the north. We had one token "London" friend who had lived in London all his life ... everyone else we knew was from somewhere else! (And none of them were Aussies.)

Health system is ****e, houses are very small and pokey compared to what we are used to, but with the company paying you should be able to get something decent.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to live in Cobham itself, as the villages can be a bit circumscribed in terms of social life etc ... Richmond is wonderful (if VERY tony) as is Ham, Hampton Wick and Kingston, all bang on the river (and still in Surrey!) Best transport links are in Kingston and Surbiton.

The only thing I would say is try to hold out for as long a period as possible. Nine months in one place will fly past; six months here and six months there just strikes me as too short. You won't be able to do a full year at schools, playgroups etc ...

Good luck with your decision!

[FishFace]

Thanks Jaq.

Yeah we chose Cobham becasue we have friends there.
We are seeing if we can rent their barn if we go!

Also school is there.
We will be 2 years in each place..they want us moved there in 6 months ;)
Its so great getting all this advice, thank you so much.

[Ashleigh<3]

DH has a letter outlining costs and stuff..
they will pay all relocation costs..
rent for 6 months in each city.
a car and petrol
health insurance
storage for stuff here
1 flight home a year!

So its sounding pretty loovely.

Lovely is an understatement- That is sounding fan-freaking-tabulous! :D

I wish I could steal your identity. :laughing:

Really happy for you and am wishing you all the best. :)

[FishFace]

Lovely is an understatement- That is sounding fan-freaking-tabulous! :D

I wish I could steal your identity. :laughing:

Really happy for you and am wishing you all the best. :)


aww ash you are such a honey.

It does sound good and it means we coudl make some real money and come back comfy!! :fingerscrossed:

[Pixie]

That's exactly what we're doing.

[SPC]

As a Londoner who came to live in Melbourne I'm a bit biased, but I'd have to say that crime in London is a real problem. Kids tend to be much 'harder' and older in London than here. There are drugs in some primary schools! However, there are so many fabulous advantages; the culture, the diversity, Europe on your doorstep; Waitrose; Marks and Spencers; National Trust castles; 'proper Christmas'! Depending on where your husband works you might not have to live in London; there are lots of lovely commuter-distance towns and villages, like St Albans, Brighton and Whitstable.

[Nickyps]

I know Cobham... My first ever job in the UK was working at a pub just down the road in Esher (called The Marquis of Granby which is on the Sciliy Isles roundabout).

[Susan Mac]

If you don't make friends, living that far away from home can feel very isolating and lonely. But NY and London you would be able to at least ring home for cheap and have reliable internet (not like in the remote jungle of png...)
Do it, while the kids are young, for the experience. I think it would be fantastic. If I hadn't had such a recent O/S experience that I need to recover from, I'd love to do something like that.

[Lastcenturymum]

That's exactly what we're doing.

Making money living in the UK? :eek: You must have good connections!

We should have a Christmas get together over this way! We will be staying here for Christmas and that will be a bit hard for all of us.

I was just in Warwick, gee it's a gorgeous spot. Walked around the castle (should have done the tour) ran along the Avon River, lunch in local pubs...

[supergeek]

both are very beautiful places to live.I have lived in both Citys and am at the moment living in london and some of the pros and cons would be:

New York Pros:
. Great schools
. Great parks
. GREAT shopping
. Nice people who are always willing to help with directions, or advice with restrunts
New york cons:
. very big so can be scary
. in some places i wouldnt want to be alone at night
. traffic is terrible

London Pros: ( check above)
.lots of history
.best pubs
.lots of babysitters
London cons:
.Lots of people
. Accent can be hard to understand

but altogether brilliant places:D good luck to you and your husband