View Full Version : Soldier Killed In Iraq
You've probably heard about the Private shot in Iraq earlier this week, well his body was meant to be returned to Aust late last night but they sent the wrong body home. This is an absolute disgrace to that poor mans family. I cant believe something like this could happen. Considering he is the only Aussie to die in Iraq, how could they get it so wrong??? Grrrr it makes my blood boil.
Please spare a thought today for the family of Pte Kovco at this terrible time
Its a terribly sad thing to happen.:(
But what about the person IN the coffin? Who is he? Where was he meant to go? Just as much a tragedy for his family IMO.
That's right, Noo - i fail to understand how this could happen. Obviously it is a mistake & mistakes happen but My God, this is just a terrible twist in the story. It's so sad to think of all the families involved & the pain they are experiencing. Watching Sunrise this morning, they spoke to the Defence Minister & he has put blame upon the civilian contractors at the morgue in Kuwait. Surely a ADF representitve should have overseen the operation. I just pray nothing like this happens again.
Rest In Peace Pte Kovco.
sopolicha
27-04-2006, 07:36
I feel sorry for the family that he died overseas serving his country, and I can't really see how they could make such a mistake. Like Noo said, Who is in the coffin that was delivered to Australia.
This is only my opinion but I can't see what all the fuss is about. Maybe it is just me but I think the body is only the shell of who and what he was. If it happened to me or one of my family I certainly wouldn't want it publicised all over the media.
I was thinking the same thing S. It really couldn't get much worse than losing him...I think the mix-up would pale in comparison really. No matter where his body is, he's still dead and nothing can change that terrible fact. Its a terrible tragedy.
I just think that after all that has happened to this poor family, this was the last thing they needed. Imagine yourself waiting at the airport for the body of your loved one to arrive home for the last time, only to be told that it isnt him but someone else. Then having to go through that waiting again whilst they return the right body. If I was the widow, all I would want would be for my husband to be returned home so he could be layed to rest, waiting another few days would be unimaginable.
While I agree it isnt as tragic as losing him, this shouldnt have happened & I believe adds to the pain of the family.
Maybe I'm a little more passionate about this than others, just my thoughts.
CarolineF
27-04-2006, 07:58
How on earth can you send the wrong body home? Aren't the coffins marked?
Who was in charge of overseeing this man's repatriation?
The way he died was a horrible mistake, an accident noone wants to happen. But this was a wholly preventable error and both famillies must feel devastated.
My thoughts are with them, and all the other soldiers who have lost their lives....howsoever caused.:yes:
I think we ALL agree that it shouldn't have happened.
I feel for his wife and children..how traumatic :(
I am thinking that the body in the coffin could be Australian SAS...as they wouldn't get mentioned should they die.
Just a horrible, horrible situation...his poor wife & family...
Apparently his widow had a hissy at the PM last night after being told of the mix-up.
I understand where you are coming from sopolicha with regards to it only being a body...but to his family, that is all they have left. To think that he is still on foreign soil, and not in the care of the ADF, would be pretty damn traumatic. You would hope that the body of an aussie soldier would be treated with the utmost care & reverence...something like this should never, ever happen.
. To think that he is still on foreign soil, and not in the care of the ADF, would be pretty damn traumatic. You would hope that the body of an aussie soldier would be treated with the utmost care & reverence...something like this should never, ever happen.
Well said, SammyD.
How on earth can you send the wrong body home? Aren't the coffins marked?
:
The plane transporting this man had a stop over in another country (can't remember where now), but there was another coffin being transported aswell, and for some unknown reason, the Australian was taken off the plane, and the other coffin put on. Why the Australian wasn't put back on the plane too, is being investigated. It is disgusting that something like this can happen.
I am very sorry to his family for grief they are going through, and I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but I am still trying to understand how a man with firearm experience "accidently" shot himself while cleaning it. The firearms they use all have safety catches on them, that are ensured, are on to safety, before they are cleaned.
I guess we will never know "how" it happened, but the fact still remains, that he did die serving his country, and now he can't be laid to rest because "someone" stuffed up and his body hasn't made it home.
I pray that this man can get home soon, and be laid to rest with the honours he deserves so that his family can try to get on with their life.
Ana Gram
27-04-2006, 11:51
Yes the body is only a shell but it is also the last representation of the man and in a time of grieving some people find that very important. There can also be an element of surrelism for the wife. She has only been told that her husband is dead and I am sure that until she sees her husbands body, there will be a small glimmer inside her of it's just a mixup and it's someone else.
MilkOnTap
27-04-2006, 13:05
This is absolutely disgusting and a disgrace to the ADF. What an incentive for fellow Australians to join the force. I have included a link to the ninemsn report HERE (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=97066)
My heart goes out to the family of the soldier who died in combat. Regardless of whatever the circumstances were surrounding his death, he died on a mission for Australia and should be given much more respect than this!
ADF wives - do you believe that the use of the dog tags should have been in place in this circumstance and may have avoided the wrong body being brought home?
poshBecks
27-04-2006, 13:12
How aweful for the family. First the trauma of losing him. Then when they are ready to say their goodbyes this happens.... I cant imagine how stressed his wife must be at the moment!! :hugs: to her!!
Hi Ally
I thought that it was because the body had gone to a morgue and the morgue discharged the wrong casket? (could be wrong though). In this case dogtags would make no difference, would they?
Cheers
It wasn't that they discharged the wrong casket. He was on the plane to come home, but for some reason got taken off the plane at a stop over in another country. The ADF is under no way to blame. It was the airline at fault.
The ADF is under no way to blame. It was the airline at fault.
I believe the ADF is at fault. Although it was civilian contractors that released the body, the soldier is a member of the ADF & an appropriate representative should have been present. The ADF has a duty of care & is responsible for getting a member home as per arrangements.
If this had happened to my DF, i too would be tearing strips off the PM, Minister of Defence & anyone else I could find.
stilldreaming
27-04-2006, 18:23
Yes the body is only a shell but it is also the last representation of the man and in a time of grieving some people find that very important. There can also be an element of surrelism for the wife. She has only been told that her husband is dead and I am sure that until she sees her husbands body, there will be a small glimmer inside her of it's just a mixup and it's someone else.
I totally agree!
Viewing the body is so important to some people........I think more so in a situation like this where the death happened overseas. There would be a glimmer of hope that they got it all wrong...........AND they bl**dy did by sending the wrong body home!!
How traumatic for the family!
How awful! What a dreadful situation. As if what his family and friends are going through isnt enough and then for this to happen :eek: :(
I really feel for the friends and family. It makes me so sad to think of it all :( :(
I am thinking that the body in the coffin could be Australian SAS...as they wouldn't get mentioned should they die.
If an SAS member died, it would be reported. It is important to keep their identity secret only when they are alive.
Not only is the body issue just terrible but also the fact that the ADF have now changed their story about how he died. Knowing the sort of training that a sniper undergoes, I have been at a loss to understand how a weapons expert would make such a mistake. I don't believe that he could. Unfortunately, this won't be the only mistruth that the ADF have covered up and it certainly won't be the last.
It is horrible. And while the body is just a shell, I completely understand the need to see him and have him home.
It sounds stupid, but the closest thing I can compare is my cat being killed last week (he was part of our family) and I got so much peace from holding his body and patting him and saying goodbye. If I couldn't have done that, it just wouldn't have been the same. In fact, after he was buried I had an overwhelming urge to dig him up so I could cuddle him some more. Ridiculous I know.... but I can only imagine that feeling being multiplied 1000 times when it is a person you love.
the_queen
27-04-2006, 18:41
His poor wife, and little kidlets :crying: His son had a calendar with "DAYS UNTIL MY DADDY COMES HOME" that he was crossing off every day :crying: :crying:
Not only is the body issue just terrible but also the fact that the ADF have now changed their story about how he died. Knowing the sort of training that a sniper undergoes, I have been at a loss to understand how a weapons expert would make such a mistake. I don't believe that he could. Unfortunately, this won't be the only mistruth that the ADF have covered up and it certainly won't be the last.
I agree Scout, this new development only adds to the pain the family are going through.
New confusion about how Kovco died (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=97594)
Not only is the body issue just terrible but also the fact that the ADF have now changed their story about how he died. Knowing the sort of training that a sniper undergoes, I have been at a loss to understand how a weapons expert would make such a mistake. I don't believe that he could. Unfortunately, this won't be the only mistruth that the ADF have covered up and it certainly won't be the last.
I've heard alot of rumors about how the soldier died but I'm not going to go into it out of respect for the family, although it may explain some of the cover-ups.
You're right, Scout - there are too many cover-ups protecting peoples butts!
Oh and ditto about the SAS.
First thing my DH said when they announced he wasn't cleaning the gun was "Suicide". Who knows really.. and I don't mean to be disrespectful. As long as the family gets some answers and some closure that's the main thing.
MilkOnTap
27-04-2006, 19:20
I believe the ADF is at fault. Although it was civilian contractors that released the body, the soldier is a member of the ADF & an appropriate representative should have been present. The ADF has a duty of care & is responsible for getting a member home as per arrangements.
If this had happened to my DF, i too would be tearing strips off the PM, Minister of Defence & anyone else I could find.
Well said:thumbsup:
I'm not sure if answers are what the family need right now, but like you Cosmic, I think closure is definitely needed. I feel so much for that family right now - the body mix up was incredibly disrespectful to the soldiers memory...
Fairyfloss
28-04-2006, 05:49
this is so terrible, my heart goes out to the family.
pestiferous
29-04-2006, 13:10
It is a normal reaction for any grieving person to attempt to find meaning or reason in any tragedy.
I should think, admitting that a simple accident could destroy your entire life would leave one feeling helpless, out of control and desperate to lay blame.
It is natural for us all to exagerate the abilities of those we love, and taint memories with our preferred versions.
No family member would willingly concede this man's incompetence, nor would guilt allow for any to believe he may simply have no longer wished to live.
Add to this the stress of such a **** up like loosing the body, it is no surprise the family feels a need to buy into a conspiracy theory.
***off topic text deleted***
bronny-jane
29-04-2006, 16:52
First thing my DH said when they announced he wasn't cleaning the gun was "Suicide"
my first thoughts were much more sinister than that:( .
CarolineF
29-04-2006, 19:13
The reason given for the mix up in the bodies has been allegedly explained. It was on the national news last night.
Apparently, the language used in the morgue where Mr Kovco's body was placed is based on the phonetic alphabet. Phonetically the names on both caskets were very similar and the attendants who did not speak English translated the names incorrectly, swapping a Bosnian soldiers casket for the Aussie one....it is being put down to a simple lost in translation error:no:
Put your hands up all those that believe that little gem????!!!!:detective:
At least a full enquiry has now been launched.
I think it more likely that poor wife wants nothing more than to bury her husband with some dignity. what dignity has all of this left him with?
SHAME!!:shame:
Hi
I'm relatively new to bubhub but thought I'd post here since DH is ex Army.
It really is terrible that the body was mixed up - however it angers me that the media have blamed our government when indeed it was a private contractor in Iraq that stuffed it up. Unfortunately the Army (and other defence forces) started outsourcing a lot of services years ago. Since it is well known that Iraq do not value life as much as westerners do - is no surprise the coffin wasn't marked (if that was the case) and if it was there is the language barrier. Who knows if the person responsible could speak English or even bothered to check if the body was the correct one?
Yes I also agree the ADF should've had a representative there by the body - however maybe all available personnel were deployed on missions and they could not spare anyone. Unless you have been involved with the Army you will never know just how strangely they operate. All I can say is that I am glad my DH is out!
It is a terrible thing that someone so young died as a result of an accident. Let's hope the media don't overhype this just to sell their stories and at the expense of a greiving family.
jessgray
30-04-2006, 12:22
i think it was terrible for both the bosnian man who mistakenly sent to australia and for the australian left back in kuwait. both families are owed some sort of explanation i reckon. the coffins looked nothing alike. and the aussies was labeled as far as the news reports have said.
and as for the cover up theroies only time will tell on what really happened and i hope the family get the answers they are looking for
***response to deleted text removed***
I think I said in my post earlier in the week, whilst the body-mix up is terrible, the ADF's handling of the manner of his death is IMO even more tragic as they have now issued 3 versions of a "story". Out of respect for the family - very little should have been said publicly by the ADF until an inquiry had at least been set up. This won't be solved overnight though, ask the families of those involved in the HMAS Westralia fire, Blackhawk crash and Navy Sea-King helicopter crash how long it takes to get answers.
I think I said in my post earlier in the week, whilst the body-mix up is terrible, the ADF's handling of the manner of his death is IMO even more tragic as they have now issued 3 versions of a "story". Out of respect for the family - very little should have been said publicly by the ADF until an inquiry had at least been set up. This won't be solved overnight though, ask the families of those involved in the HMAS Westralia fire, Blackhawk crash and Navy Sea-King helicopter crash how long it takes to get answers.
I agree Scout - Does anyone know why it was released to the public? Maybe it was the family & their grief - they wanted answers & thought the media was their best option. I think the Dept of Defence should quit while they are behind & keep their mouths shut until answers are found. If it was happening to me, I wouldnt want to hear a different story everytime I turned on the TV.
madvoice
30-04-2006, 18:00
I am recently ex RAAF. One of the reasons I decided enough was enough was all of the civilian outsourcing. You know who is to blame for civilian outsourcing? The government. Its all to save a buck because civilian contrators come under a totally different budget.
At the end of the day the major decisions that are made with regard to how the military is run is by the government. There is nobody else to blame.
sopolicha
30-04-2006, 18:10
Why didn't they have a big homecoming for the poor man and his family when he was due home the first time?
Why was it only arranged the second time he was due home?
Shouldn't a soldier who died overseas whilst deployed (no matter how) be entitled to nice home coming anytime?
madvoice
30-04-2006, 18:12
Yes, he deserved a homecoming. Even if his body wasn't here. It has been a total shambles. I really feel sorry for his family.
Its times like these where I'm glad I gave the military the good old middle digit salute on the way out the door.
sopolicha
30-04-2006, 18:14
I am pretty certain that the family didn't need to be paraded in front of the media.
Things are **** enough for them.
Why didn't they have a big homecoming for the poor man and his family when he was due home the first time?
This crossed my mind too - when he was supposed to arrive home earlier in the week in Melbourne, it was very small & no frills yet once the 'stuff up' occured, they pull out all stops - this should have happened the first time.
I also agree with what Madvoice said about budget cuts - DF was only just telling me the other week that Civillians now run the mess because it is cheaper than using ADF members.
MilkOnTap
01-05-2006, 11:17
***quote of deleted text removed***
I also agree with references made to the homecoming of Pte Kovco's body and that any serviceman/woman deserves respect and acknowledgement of the role in which they were undertaking at the time of their death. Regardless of whether story A, B or C is correct, a homecoming should have been arranged.
I guess now we just sit back and wait for whatever story D pours out after an investigation is in place... My heart just goes out to the family who have had their heads kicked from all angles and still have to wait for more news... :(
pestiferous
02-05-2006, 16:31
***response to deleted post removed***
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This crossed my mind too - when he was supposed to arrive home earlier in the week in Melbourne, it was very small & no frills yet once the 'stuff up' occured, they pull out all stops - this should have happened the first time.
*****************************
Could this simply be a result of the extended media coverage ? Yes we were all upset to hear that one of "our own" had passed,
But if we are honest with ourselves we must admit the majority would only have pondered this loss for a moment before returning to our own lives and priorities.
Sadly, If it were not for the mistakes there would be very little interest in these events, very little media coverage and not nearly enough care in the wider community to justify a larger ceremony.
MilkOnTap
02-05-2006, 16:41
***response to deleted post removed***
You've probably heard about the Private shot in Iraq earlier this week, well his body was meant to be returned to Aust late last night but they sent the wrong body home. This is an absolute disgrace to that poor mans family. I cant believe something like this could happen. Considering he is the only Aussie to die in Iraq, how could they get it so wrong??? Grrrr it makes my blood boil.
Please spare a thought today for the family of Pte Kovco at this terrible time
Hi All
This thread is now reopened following a clean out of off topic posts. This thread is about the controversy surrounding the sad death of Pte Kovco, please keep to this topic.
If you have other wider issues about the ADF in general, please feel free to start a new thread to discuss.
Cheers
Could this simply be a result of the extended media coverage ? Yes we were all upset to hear that one of "our own" had passed,
If you read my post, that was exactly my point - why did this error have to occur & the media get so involved for this Digger to receive the homecoming he deserved? Shouldnt they have had the same set up arranged for his original homecoming?
I dont think anyone can argue with me that it was a terrible thing to happen, made worse by the error delievering his body home.
I'm glad John Howard & other dignitaries attended his funeral today, whilst it doesnt make up for the error, it does restore a little faith in the ADF & their compassion towards the families.
pestiferous
02-05-2006, 19:02
Im afraid i might be a little too cynical.
I think the extra effort taken only after the mistakes lessens the meaning behind these services and ceremonies in future. It seems to me that it is meant more to ease guilt than to honour a man who has passed.
Yes he does deserve to be honoured, But it should not have been turned into such a circus .
I always thought (please correct me if i am wrong) that to be taken on a gun carriage and have the 21 gun salute is usually reserved for heads of state.
That these honours can be "pulled out of a hat" and used to carpet over the mistakes that have been made is disgraceful.
I personally would consider this an insult not an honour.
MilkOnTap
02-05-2006, 19:43
Im afraid i might be a little too cynical.
I too am afraid that I must agree with you
pestiferous, please correct me if I am wrong, but i tend to notice some bitterness towards the ADF in just about all of your posts? I'm guessing there is a history that has influenced some of your comments. I'm not asking you to discuss this with us or anything, just something I'm picking up on.
Like I said, forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick.
I always thought (please correct me if i am wrong) that to be taken on a gun carriage and have the 21 gun salute is usually reserved for heads of state.
Pte Kovco didn't receive a 21 gun salute. He was provided with firing of a volley of shots from the guard that attended the funeral. That is standard for ADF members in the event of a death, if their family so chooses. As for the gun carriage, I'm not surprised considering the fact that he died whilst on active duty.
pestiferous
02-05-2006, 21:11
Pte Kovco didn't receive a 21 gun salute.
Thankyou for the correction, I was listening to the news but not watching and it was stated in the narrative that he recieved a 21 gun salute.
This does not change the unfortunate fact that his memorial has been (for lack of a better word) hijacked purely to direct media and community focus away from the mistakes made.
pestiferous, please correct me if I am wrong, but i tend to notice some bitterness towards the ADF
hmm well i do have a very abrupt manner but as the post you refer to critiques those responsible for using this ceremony as a political white wash and not the military, perhaps the lack of expression available through this medium has caused you to confuse the two.
I am actually quite surprised that so few are offended by such a superficial honour,
Sadly, if it was not for the mistakes made he would not have recieved such attention. That in my opinion is the fault not only of those responsible for the mistake and subsequent attempt to reduce its political impact, (lets face it the average joe blow will not distinguish government from military and will jump the first bandwagon they find, hence the need to distract)
not only of the defence policy makers who allow for such mistakes to happen (note that i did not say personel)
but of each and every one of us who would normally have forgotten his death the minute the channel was changed
CarolineF
03-05-2006, 15:34
Although I do not agree with all pestiferious says about this topic, I do agree that this poor man and his family would not have recieved the level of honours that have happened had it not been for the **** ups.
The govt has tried to avert politicial disaster by doing this, and that is an insult to Pvt Kovco's family who ,I am sure, are likely to be just as sceptical about it all as we have been.
Perhaps it is time to let this man rest in peace and let the powers that be reflect upon what Pvt Kovco did for his country and what role they played in hurting his memory.
~beckkles~
03-05-2006, 22:20
I lost my BIL in a ADF accident, I really feel for the family. We waited 6 months for a finding in his inquiry only to be stuffed around, BIL received a full milatary funeral which kind of turned our stomachs as they were responsible for his death.
A mother has lost her son, a wife has lost her soulmate and children have lost there father....doesn't that say enough.
Bec
tupper_lady
04-05-2006, 07:35
It is all very sad and tragic, It could have easily been my husband.
***inappropriate innuendo removed***
This is a place to discuss the controversy surrounding Pte Kovco's death. Let's be a bit sensitive and not spread salacious rumours about the family that have nothing to do with his death.
If we can't keep to the topic, the thread will be closed.
Cheers
tupper_lady
04-05-2006, 12:34
Ummm okay. :cool::banghead:
SamanthaJane
05-05-2006, 14:41
I just wanted to say that i feel sorry for this family. It was a terrible thing that has happened to a young man who leaves behind a very young family. I see his little children on the news and it upsets me that they will never really get the chance to know their father :crying:
I might also add that i think the whole story is very sus. How does a man so so experienced with guns accidently shoot himself? I dont think he commited suicide at all so I keep asking myself so many questions as to why this has happened and maybe we will never get answers. The fact that his coffin was delayed due to a mix up makes the whole thing even more sus.
My heart goes out to his suffering family and friends:hugs:
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