Anzac Day

[Mister Noodle]

You know, it strikes me that I'd be a lot happier with Anzac day (and suchlike things) if instead of honouring our own fallen, we honoured all those that we killed.

Worldwide, there'd be as much recognition of those that served - but the tone, rather than being self-congratulatory and lending to the glorification of war... would be instead expressing regret, in an acknowledgement of the horrors of war and the senseless waste of life that it represents.

Now THAT would something I'd be proud to take part in, and something indeed that we must never forget.

Who's with me?

[Mamaduke]

I, for one, am really quite offended by your post.
This is Anzac Day, and it is a day especially set aside to honour the memory of those who have fought and fallen for this country...the same country which allows you and I the freedom of saying what we feel.
If you've ever listened to any of the ex-servicemen/women who have fought for our country you would hear that they all agree that war is a 'senseless waste of life' and that they'd wished it never happened.

rather than being self-congratulatory and lending to the glorification of war...
It's not 'self congratulatory'...it's all of us Australians simply acknowledging and saying thank you for everything that these Anzacs have done for us...that is not a glorification of war...it's simply good manners. It's also saying that we remember those who have died serving our country, that they will never be forgotten for the ultimate price they paid for our country.


it strikes me that I'd be a lot happier with Anzac day
Well to be quite honest, Anzac Day isn't for you...it's for those who fought for us, and quite frankly....
you need to pull your head in.

[sopolicha]

Not me,

To me it means expressing regret about the young men thought fought and died for our country. It has absolutely nothing to do with the glorification of war.

I think it also a day for all the returned soldiers to remember their mates that they served with and to remind us about the horrors of war.

The soldiers who you say we are paying 'recognition' to were Service Men. As such they served their country and did what they were told. I am sure not one of them would have signed up to serve their country if they knew what they would endure.

I wish we had a conscripted Vietnam Vet to come answer your question.

[rynosmum]

I have been quite pleased with some of the coverage this year which has had quite a few war stories and the regrets of past soldiers for having to be in the situation of war.

I don't believe that the coverage is self-gratulatory, I believe that we are all able to draw from it the senseless waste of human life. That said however, of course we are more prone to relate this to the soldiers that we are exposed to - those of our own country.

What is a war hero ? To me, it is someone who performed a duty on behalf of their government in the hope that it would provide a better place for their children. It is those who fought, those who didn't, those who came home, and the poor souls who were lost. These men and women were forced into a life-changing situation with stresses we could never imagine - if in Australia we still have ANZAC day, I feel that that is the very least we can do to pay our respects.

I understand your intentions and perhaps this may be a whole new day or international mourning - but don't take away our ANZAC tradition.

[moonblossom]

Although I admire a lot of your contribution here Mr. Noodle, I feel your comment rather unfeeling.

Even tho i don't avocate War, and yes I do think of the fallen also, I think it is totally disrespectful to say such things on Anzac Day.

[melfunction]

Not me Mr Noodle......and I'm with Mamaduke. Pull your head in.

[jaimie]

i think we should acknowledge both. i dont know if i agree that we are self-congratulatory in our rememberance but i do think we could see more about the impact it had on the countries whose men were also killed .our men did so much for our country. well said mamaduke

[Seekrit]

I'm with Mamaduke.

[MammaMia]

Mr Noodle - you make me tired just reading your posts. Is there anything you don't have an opinion on? Can I suggest you start a blog?

And content yourself dissecting "The One Day of the Year"?

As for me & mine, we won't forget...the young, the old...those that stood where we hope no one else has to stand. The loss - how can we not remember it? It goes hand in hand with the valour. Loss of life, loss of innocence, loss of happiness, loss of spirit.

Self-congratulations? Tis a tone I sense in your post about your own intellectual meanderings but not one that I have ever encountered in any of the stories I have ever heard of the ANZACS we remember.

Give them the one day of the year. Your high horse will no doubt be still tied to the post tomorrow, waiting to be fed.

[misskittyfantastico]

Today I took my DD to the ANZAC parade in Bruce Rock....there were about 40 people in total marching and it was very moving. I know each and everyone of those 40, they are grandsons and granddaughters and great grandsons and daughters.... It was more about the tradgedy of war than any sort of celebration of victory. It's respect for those who have fallen. Just leave it alone.

[ButterflyKisses]

isn't there a World Peace Day??? or something similar - it may not be a national or worldwide holiday but I thought there was something like that.

I like Anzac Day and cry everytime I watch the old Diggers marching on TV and wish to hell some of the young sods out there causing trouble in our streets would have some of the dignity and decency of these true gentlemen.

I'm going to be real saddened when there will no longer be any of the Diggers from the earlier wars left to march. In some ways I don't agree with the decendents marching in their place because in years to come all we will have are civilians marching and it will not be the same. Not sure how to combat that but in any event I love Anzac Day.

I watched the Kokoda service this morning that Kochie attended and thought it was beautiful. One of my brothers mates went on that trek but unfortunately I couldn't see him in the crowd.

[Bron]

I don't think ANZAC day glorifies war. I find it moving and a day for reflection. And a day for hoping that we never lose another person in a war. I think it reminds us of how sad loss of life is in a war and how pointless wars are.

It doesn't glorify war, it recognises bravery and strength of the people who were there. If it were to glorify war it would be celebrating the politicians who decided that the war should happen in the first place. This doesn't happen.

Edited to add - I do quite like the idea, however, of showing respect for all people who have died in wars. It doesn't have to be about Australia, but then that's what Remembrance day is about.

[Goosie22]

You know, it strikes me that I'd be a lot happier with Anzac day (and suchlike things) if instead of honouring our own fallen, we honoured all those that we killed.

In every ANZAC day service I have attended or watched on TV they always mention the Turks that fought and died dug in not even 100m away from the ANZACs both sides were unwitting porns in a war. ANZAC day isnt to glorify war but to remember those who lost their lives so that we can live such a Beautiful life.

Lest we Forget

[mysonroger]

mr noodle. your a hipppppppppyyyyyyyyyy.

i can't even be bothered with people who talk like mr noodle. i mean, why would you bother. i thought marmaduke's response was fantastic, and i agree with butterfly kisses. get emotional about it all , especially the old ones. my dad is amongst the marchers and i am so proud of him that my eyes well up with tears.
OMG i think i'm going to cry..........

[Maghan]

Mister Noodle, you truly have a noodle for a brain. Stirring the pot is one thing, this is another. You have lost your entertainment value. Best move on whilst people still have fond memories of you.

[sharvs]

I think Mr Noodle may have mistaken the concept of ANZAC Day. I do not believe it glorifies war at all - ask any returned service personnel if they think war is glorious? It is a day to pay respect & honor those that get out there and do the job that most of us dont have the balls to do. Without them we could all be speaking a different language, without the freedom we all currently enjoy. As a Defence Force Spouse of a member that has served our country, & tomorrow leaves to begin training for another deployment, I am deeply offended. They fight so you dont have to, so your son doesnt have to. If we cant find one day per year to honor them, then there is something seriously wrong.

Dont blame the soldier for going to war - they are doing their job - defending you, me & our lifestyle. I could not be more proud of my DF - you should be giving him & every other Digger the respect they deserve.

On behalf of me & my DF - GET BACK IN YOUR BOX!

[jaimie]

mister noodle...dont **** on what our men did for our country. i think you have offended every australian tonight.

[Foxy]

Hmm Mr Noodle, are you deliberately trying to upset people?

Mamaduke has said it all, however if you want to remember the casualties of war you can do it on 11 November at 11am, it's called Remembrance Day -

http://www.dva.gov.au/commem/rememb/rem_intro.htm


Play nice.

[Mamaduke]

sharvs...
On behalf of the decent & proud Australians, I would like to thank your husband for defending our wonderful country...and thank you for sacrificing everything that you do when your husband is away so we can continue to enjoy the freedom that this beautiful country allows us!

Thank you!!

[jaimie]

one thing i want to add is that i dont think when i was at school that we learnt enough about ANZAC and what it means. i dont know if it is different these days but it seems as tho national pride is thriving. except for the f***ing idiots that vandalise war memorials. they should be shot...

[WeThree]

mmmm, you know for a minute there mr noodle when i read your post in the sacred land thread i thought maybe i had found another leftie with which i had something in common, but it appears i was wrong. i dont really know or care whether or not you really feel this way or are just purposely trying to stir up the hen house, but i do know that you are blessed that brave honourable men like my grandfather and thousands like him fought and gave their lives so that you are in the position you are in now of being able to have the freedom of speech to say such things, the men from this era were a rare breed, and are sadly almost gone forever.
I personally believe that ANZAC day is not about glorifying killing but rather remembering those who have fallen, and giving those brave men one day of respect. it is a reminder of the atrocities of war, not a day to glorify it.

[rynosmum]

I think that there is only one way that this thread can continue to head so I'm going to close it down. Mr Noodle, whilst I believe that your initial intentions may have been good - to look at peace on a global scale - the wording and the timing of your message weren't the best in this case.

The feelings of us all seem very clear.

Let's take this one final opportunity on BubHub for this ANZAC day to thank all of our soldiers - past and present - for all they have done for us and continue to do.

Just because people go to war doesn't mean that they want to be there, want to risk their lives or want to hurt others. They are doing it for us all, for our futures and for that of our children.

This is something we can never take for granted.

Lest we forget.

[WeThree]

Ok, Ive reopened this thread for now as I believe the OP wanted an opporunity to explain his post, and I think he should be given the chance to do so. :)

[Beany]

ANZAC day, and the various days around the world that remember the fallen, aren't set up to glorify war. It's a simple case of remembering - remembering the people that died, remembering why and giving the surviving family and friends something to hold onto: that they didn't die in vain.

It's that simple. It instills national pride and national regret. It inspires hope and patriotism. All of these are important to the progression and maintenance of the increasingly blurring boundaries of what we call a "nation".

Not everything is some sort of conspiracy to glorify violence.

You pleb.

[Mister Noodle]

Beany my love,

It has been co-opted as such, and that was my point.

Look at all the flags being waved on the day. Look at all the nationalistic propaganda being pumped down our throats telling people what a wonderful thing these people participated in.

By honouring people on that day, we are forced to honour the war that they fought in. By calling it a 'sacrifice', and hyping up the nobility thereof, we are forced into a false equivocation:

These people were brave, heroic and generally admirable.
The things they did were equally praise-worthy.
Therefore it was good that they were doing them.
Therefore our country's actions were not just justifiable, but actively noble.
Therefore we weren't callously sending people to kill and be killed - we were giving them a chance to be heroes
(people are very happy to accept this - it means that their existing loss was not in vain)
Therefore, when the military wants to send your sons to kill people and to die in the process, you should thank them for it and be proud, instead of decrying the barbarity of war, and telling them to get stuffed.

I would honour the warriors all to bits, But I will not honour the war they fought in.

Funny thing - how many thousands of conscripts were sent, utterly against their will? How was their death a 'sacrifice' - except one made by their CO?

Days such as these were set up very cynically, as PR stunts: let people call it a 'noble sacrifice', give them validation and a way to rationalise their grief as something good and necessary - and you keep the people sweet, so they don't start baying for your blood afterwards, and they don't feel too guilty about all the people they killed.

Wars happen when the lives of your people are cheaper and easier than diplomacy and economics, or when you just want to grab power/resources. Look at vietnam and iraq. They aren't/weren't about freedom - they were about money, power, politics and oil. And I don't think any war in the past has been any better.

If there is a day when I am least proud of my country, it is a day commemorating a war in which we took part. Countless thousands of people died horribly, and we did that. The people responsible sat around a table, and decided how many people were to be sent to their deaths - human beings were just a resource to be expended. So long as they didn't run out - no worries.

Well, I don't honour that. I won't validate the war by validating the warriors. They won't get a free ride from the men and women they killed - not on my watch.

Thus I suggested that we honour each other's dead, instead. Because that can't be twisted into anything but what it is: needless, pointless, avoidable and utterly ******** death. You can't validate their casue without simultaneously damning our own part in it. All you can do is honour is the bravery of the people involved, and express regret for the waste of life and disgust at the circumstances that caused it.

Is that such a bad thing?

[Chickadee]

okey dokey. Closing again. Mr N, I suggest if you want to debate this further that you take it up with your lovely partner :)