My poor nephew....I felt sick

[sweetsugardumplin']

Yesterday my four year old nephew spent the day with us. He's the same age as DS, so lots of loud boy stuff going on.

Anyway, he needed some help climbing onto the toilet to do his thing, and when helping him onto the toilet I caught a glimpse of his circ'ed penis.

To be totally honest a wave of nausea swept over me and my blood ran cold.

It looked so raw and exposed (it's a healthy penis - so I've been told) but it just looked `damaged'.

Now he was circ'ed as a young baby, so it's not a recent procedure.....but it made we wanna cry.

I know why his parents did it, for possible medical reasons (my BIL, D nephew's dad had a lot of problems with his foreskin retracting...TMI I know)

But I really can't reconcile how a small baby or child could be subjected to such a procedure....especially if there are no current medical reasons as to why.

I have read many posts and thread on this......but I still don't get it.

I don't believe that parent's have the right to instigate the removal of any body part of their child's- beit for religious reasons, or just because dad had it done.etc......

I know I am opening a can of worms and I'm ready (sort of) for the fall out.

I guess this is an invitation for those who agree or disagree to express themselves (again) but please keep it nice. :yes:

[Ange&Seth]

I guess this is an invitation for those who agree or disagree to express themselves (again) but please keep it nice. :yes:


:laughing: Good Luck!

ETA - Your nephews parents obviously have done what they deemed in their childs best interests - as you have done by not circ'ing your child.

[sweetsugardumplin']

:laughing: Good Luck!

ETA - Your nephews parents obviously have done what they deemed in their childs best interests - as you have done by not circ'ing your child.


You've got us off to a good start :shakehands:

[WarriorMummy]

i have no probs with circumsizing kids
i didnt do mine
but ds1 had to be done at 3yrs for medical reasons and he went thro alot of pain b4 and after the op
he is now pain free and loving being able to go to the toilet like normal kids

[Sammilee]

:laughing: Good Luck!

ETA - Your nephews parents obviously have done what they deemed in their childs best interests - as you have done by not circ'ing your child.

:iagree: His parents did it as they probably thought it was in their son's best interest, just like you have by not circ'ing your son.

I don't judge people for doing it or not doing it as it's ultimately their own child and not mine, and I believe parents do things in the best interest of their child/ren (whether we agree or not agree with it).

[punkbaby]

I would feel sick too :(

Each to their own though if parents choose to do it then its not my business but having seen my nephews as you have yours i can relate to your feelings

[Amused]

You have your mind made up, as have I...

Different people = different opinions

What is it that you are hoping to achieve by this post? Just curious...

[sweetsugardumplin']

but ds1 had to be done at 3yrs for medical reasons and he went thro alot of pain b4 and after the op
he is now pain free and loving being able to go to the toilet like normal kids


This I can totally understand, your poor DS :hugs:.

[sweetsugardumplin']

What is it that you are hoping to achieve by this post? Just curious...What am I hoping to achieve....good question?

My experience yesterday has resonated with me since. I needed to express my thoughts and feelings.

I have read many posts and threads in this section, both for and against , but this is the first time I have been compelled to write how I feel. (Actually I tell a lie, I posted something when Christina Aguilera was all very chatty and flippant about her son's circumcision)

Anyway, my attitude is: Bubhub is a forum, and opportunity for people, like you and me to express themselves.......................so I would like to achieve or create an opportunity for members to do so, in a resepctful way.

I don't intend to get nasty or narky, and would hope that others do the same.

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate, I always say :yes:

[Roopee]

Mmmmm I dont think I would feel sick at it....good friends of mine have their little boy done and while it doesn't make me feel sick as such it certainly makes me wonder why........make sense?

We spoke alot about Circ when they had their baby and they were pretty open in their disgust of uncirc'd penis, while i was pretty open in my disgust at their flippant attitude to such a serious procedure- yet we still remained friends.

I dont know- good luck with the 'staying nice' thing though:laughing:

[shed]

I think my nephew is done, I am not a hundred percent sure but I am reasonably sure he would have been done as my brother wife's culture would dictate such a thing.

Some of my friends had their son done, I thought their reason was pretty stupid but that's my right to think that and its their right to circ their son for that reason. I told them that my son wasn't done because I wanted him to look like all his friends and hardly anyone gets it done now. They were the ones who brought up the subject.

I haven't seen many little boys circ'd willys in my life, most of the nappies I have ever changed have been girls or uncirced boys so I would probably find it a bit unusual looking as well.

[sweetsugardumplin']

We spoke alot about Circ when they had their baby and they were pretty open in their disgust of uncirc'd penis,

:eek: Why would anyone think that an uncircumsised penis is disgusting? Or any other body part for that matter?

If your friend's decison was based on culture did religion play a factor?

Because if it did, then how could the product (the baby and his bits) of the higher power: God, Buddah, Allah etc be considered disgusting?


- good luck with the 'staying nice' thing though:laughing:

:rolleyes: yeah, I know what you mean but so far so good

[Benji]

I was talking to a lady in a parent's room while we were both changing our sons and I was talking goo-gaa to her boy and noticed he was circ'd.

It made me feel uncomfortable. It was like his tiny little penis was missing and the tip was red. He seemed happy enough, so obviously it wasn't causing him any discomfort (that I know of).

Anyway, yes I understand how you felt.

My grandma told me that back in the days when her 2 boys were bubbas it was considered "weird" and "cruel" if they weren't circ'd. She went on to tell me that if she had her time over, she wouldn't have put them through it. That was another deciding factor in my choice not to circumcise DS (among many others).

[trouble]

I think this is like an immunisation thing, everyone has ha different opinion, and everyone thinks their doing whats best for their baby,

My DH is and when I asked what he would want if we had a boy, he said yes he would get it done as he is, but thats as far as that convo went as I have girls so never really thought about it, so havent made up my mind.

[~Temet Nosce~]

I think most people who circ do it for hygeine reasons.. its meant to stay cleaner without the forskin kwim, less risk of infection, you have to clean the forskin.
Though if I have a boy one day I dont think Id bother with circing, would rather just clean it.

[shed]

IMy DH is and when I asked what he would want if we had a boy, he said yes he would get it done as he is.

We had the same conversation but in the end he decided that he didn't want bubby done after all. He didn't really take much convincing, I just told him that they didn't really do it much anymore and that was the end of it really.

I think alot of people are of this mindset - back when it was the done thing they just went with the flow and now that its not the done thing they still go with the flow.

[Skittles]

I have to admit before my son was born i wanted him circed. However then i watched what the procedure actually is and did some research on it i was very much against it. If we were not ment to have it it would not be there

[Ange&Seth]

I have to admit before my son was born i wanted him circed. However then i watched what the procedure actually is and did some research on it i was very much against it. Personally i think its ******** (JMO ok). My sister had a go at me for not doing it. So i just told her when her sons are born she can mutilate their body if she wants. If we were not ment to have it it would not be there

I know it's just your opinion, but I just wanted to let you know that using the words 'mutilate' and '********' isn't really a good way to keep things nice in threads like these. Not trying to be a smart$$ or anything, just thought you might not have known.

[Skittles]

i am not being nasty. She asked what we thought and thats all i said. I am repeating a convo with my sister and the oher part is waht i think. Sorry. If it is offensive i will remove it

[Fuchsia!]

I know what you mean, makes feel sick to my stomach at what the poor little bubba went through. Yuck!

[pinkishbunny]

I know what you mean, makes feel sick to my stomach at what the poor little bubba went through. Yuck!

I agree with you! My boys are intact..Wouldnt have it any other way...and other people say its more hygienic (sp) to have boys circumsized...NO difference...But each to their own. Thats just my opinion :)

[RHJ]

It certainly doesn't make me feel sick to see one. It also doesn't make me wonder why others choose this. I know their reasons... either they think it is more hygenic, or for medical reasons (for that boy or previous family history) or religion. Each to their own.

When i was pregnant, we too had a discussion about it. My DH is done, (and proud! LOL) and his inital comments were that he wanted our sons to look like him etc and he also was of the belief it was more hygienic. All i really said to him was that it was up to him, but to remember that when he went to school, he was of the majority... for our boys, they would be in the minority if they were to have it done now.
A few days later he came back saying that he decided he didn't want them done. :D

[Nan]

Not sure that this is the right place for this comment, but my son HAS to have it done next year for medical reasons and I'm a little worried about it to tell you the truth. When I was nursing, I saw one done and the sight of the blood alone made me want to cry, but I had to keep it together.....be professional and all! Sorry if TMI.

My son was born with his penis partly attached to the scrotum and has to have it cut to separate them otherwise he's gonna have REAL trouble as it will be crooked when erect. Once again sorry if TMI, but I'm worried about it so I'm kinda raving! :o The doctor said its very invasive and the surgery is basically like a circ but even more so as bits have to be removed and also re-sectioned. How awful does that sound? My poor little man. :gloomy:

If people choose to get it done, it doesn't bother me, but my personal preference would be a 'no', but its not really my decision to make. Its been taken out of my hands which kinda sucks.

Sorry to rave. I think I included my opinion in there somewhere. :p

[sweetsugardumplin']

Not sure that this is the right place for this comment, but my son HAS to have it done next year for medical reasons and I'm a little worried about it to tell you the truth. When I was nursing, I saw one done and the sight of the blood alone made me want to cry, but I had to keep it together.....be professional and all! Sorry if TMI.

My son was born with his penis partly attached to the scrotum and has to have it cut to separate them otherwise he's gonna have REAL trouble as it will be crooked when erect. Once again sorry if TMI, but I'm worried about it so I'm kinda raving! :o The doctor said its very invasive and the surgery is basically like a circ but even more so as bits have to be removed and also re-sectioned. How awful does that sound? My poor little man. :gloomy:

If people choose to get it done, it doesn't bother me, but my personal preference would be a 'no', but its not really my decision to make. Its been taken out of my hands which kinda sucks.

Sorry to rave. I think I included my opinion in there somewhere. :p
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

[Roopee]

:rolleyes: yeah, I know what you mean but so far so good

As far as I know, and I have been good friends with this couple for more than 10 years, there are no religious or cultural reasons.
Just aesthetic ones........

[Amused]

What am I hoping to achieve....good question?

My experience yesterday has resonated with me since. I needed to express my thoughts and feelings.

I have read many posts and threads in this section, both for and against , but this is the first time I have been compelled to write how I feel. (Actually I tell a lie, I posted something when Christina Aguilera was all very chatty and flippant about her son's circumcision)

Anyway, my attitude is: Bubhub is a forum, and opportunity for people, like you and me to express themselves.......................so I would like to achieve or create an opportunity for members to do so, in a resepctful way.

I don't intend to get nasty or narky, and would hope that others do the same.

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate, I always say :yes:

Fair enough :yes: I like debate too, just curious about your motivation or direction... Thank you

[forbetoel]

I would never circ my boys...not for a million dollars....but your nephew is already snipped, and I am guessing well looked after by his parents and much loved. Look at all the wonderful things his parents have done for him....not one decision.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I find it very hard to understand why people get their sons done in this day and age. I do look at it as something that will eventually be completely fased out and made illegal. JMO.

I would not have my son done unless absolutely necessary.

[V8]

My son was born with his penis partly attached to the scrotum and has to have it cut to separate them otherwise he's gonna have REAL trouble as it will be crooked when erect. Once again sorry if TMI, but I'm worried about it so I'm kinda raving! :o The doctor said its very invasive and the surgery is basically like a circ but even more so as bits have to be removed and also re-sectioned. How awful does that sound? My poor little man. :gloomy:

Sorry to rave. I think I included my opinion in there somewhere. :p

Sorry OP, but off topic, my DS2 has the same thing, but they said to wait till he's 12 months before i even see someone about it! Can you please please PM me about it if you don't mind, i have the exact same concerns and after more research on the internet it's called a webbed penis and will more than likely require surgery too, but i have no idea what it involves.... any advice or help would be appreciated!

Sorry OP....

[miloand4]

i had my first son done. I was not given enough information about the procedure and put under a lot of preassure to have it done. This was 15 yrs ago so I did not have tools like the internet etc.. Just everyones opinions so I got- He will need to look like all the other men! and Its cleaner! And what if he needs to have it done when he,s older etc.. I really wish I had gone with my own gut instinct as they botched it and took to much skin (and this was done with a bell) and my poor baby was so badly hurt and has terrible scarring and I dont know yet how this will affect him when he becomes sexually active. I feel so guilty about it :no::no::no: My ds2 was not done and I am obviously opposed to it now. my ds2 has no issues with keeping it clean does not compare himself to other boys and if he had to have an op on it at any stage well at least the pain was not caused unnescessarily. Babies feel pain to:( I cant believe knowing what we know now that people still think its ok to modify there babies genitals I am so ashamed that I did

[mum_I'm_hungry]

I would never get a son of mine done (and haven't), but you seem to be making quite a big deal of it. Yes, his parents had him circumcised. Their decision. It's (still) legal. But making you 'sick' is a tad over the top. I hope he didn't catch any of the feelings you had about parts of his body and doesn't in the future.

[OJandMe]

Sorry... but I think you've gone way over the top.

This is a healthy little 4yr old boy.. who most probably doesn't think there's ANYTHING 'wrong' or 'sick' or 'sad' about his circ'd penis. Just like your son wouldn't think there's anything 'different' or 'wrong' or 'dirty' about his...

I hope to god he didn't notice or pick up on your reaction to his penis. How would a 4yr old interpret an adult reacting in recoil to their body parts???

I think as parents/aunts/uncles/adults.. it's our responsibility to encourage kids to be happy with THEIR bodies.. regardless of whether they are circ'd, have their ears pierced, have large birthmarks, freckles, different skin colour, abnormalities or any other trait.

His parents made a decision based on their famliy history and concerns, just as you made a decision based on yours.

A penis is a penis is a penis to a 4yr old. Let's not project adult anxieties/feelings onto kids.

[Ashleigh<3]

Sorry... but I think you've gone way over the top.

This is a healthy little 4yr old boy.. who most probably doesn't think there's ANYTHING 'wrong' or 'sick' or 'sad' about his circ'd penis. Just like your son wouldn't think there's anything 'different' or 'wrong' or 'dirty' about his...

I hope to god he didn't notice or pick up on your reaction to his penis. How would a 4yr old interpret an adult reacting in recoil to their body parts???

I think as parents/aunts/uncles/adults.. it's our responsibility to encourage kids to be happy with THEIR bodies.. regardless of whether they are circ'd, have their ears pierced, have large birthmarks, freckles, different skin colour, abnormalities or any other trait.

His parents made a decision based on their famliy history and concerns, just as you made a decision based on yours.

A penis is a penis is a penis to a 4yr old. Let's not project adult anxieties/feelings onto kids.

I have to agree.

I'm definitely against circumcision but I'd have to do my best not to let my personal opinions inflict instability upon an already circed child.
I'd do my very best not to let something like this upset me, and do everything I could not to let the child see me upset because after all, he is still a boy with or without his foreskin.
I actually try very hard not to discuss circumcision around children, I think it's opening up a can of worms for a crowd that just cannot comprehend the procedure. They are too young to understand and the last thing we should be doing is teaching our kids that 'difference' is wrong.

Sometimes we have no other choice but to put our parenting preferences aside, especially in this sort of case when the procedure happened years ago. We can't bring his foreskin back.

[sweetsugardumplin']

but you seem to be making quite a big deal of it. :confused: Ummm, am I?


But making you 'sick' is a tad over the top. I honestly felt what I felt, I had no control over that :no:


I hope he didn't catch any of the feelings you had about parts of his body and doesn't in the future. No, I'm sure he didn't, I did not make a big deal of it, as you have suggested. But like I mentioned previously, the image and the feeling I had resonated with me.

I love my nephew, and regardless of his parent's decision or how I feel about that, he would never know.

ETA: I did ask that this thread stay nice, and up until now it has. Please don't target me or any other member, otherwise yet another thread will be closed. :)

[Ashleigh<3]

No, I'm sure he didn't, I did not make a big deal of it, as you have suggested. But like I mentioned previously, the image and the feeling I had resonated with me.

I love my nephew, and regardless of his parent's decision or how I feel about that, he would never know.

ETA: I did ask that this thread stay nice, and up until now it has. Please don't target me or any other member, otherwise yet another thread will be closed. :)

You don't deserve to have your thread closed.
You are completely within your right to express how you feel.

If his circumcised penis made you feel sick, who are we to tell you that's wrong- it's easy to feel sick when it comes to the topic of circumcision for many reasons, let alone seeing a young, circumcised boy's penis, I can imagine how you felt.

[sweetsugardumplin']

Sorry... but I think you've gone way over the top. Umm, have I :confused:


This is a healthy little 4yr old boy.. who most probably doesn't think there's ANYTHING 'wrong' or 'sick' or 'sad' about his circ'd penis. I don't remember stating that his penis was 'wrong' or 'sick' or 'sad'.....I expressed my feelings, not how he or any other circ boy should feel about their penis.


I hope to god he didn't notice or pick up on your reaction to his penis. How would a 4yr old interpret an adult reacting in recoil to their body parts??? I also don't remember stating that
I recoiled.


I think as parents/aunts/uncles/adults.. it's our responsibility to encourage kids to be happy with THEIR bodies.. regardless of whether they are circ'd, have their ears pierced, have large birthmarks, freckles, different skin colour, abnormalities or any other trait.
I totally agree :yes:



A penis is a penis is a penis to a 4yr old. Let's not project adult anxieties/feelings onto kids. I'm not projecting anything..........TBH he was more interested in reading a Thomas the Tank Engine book while he had a poo, than worrying about any possible fleeting moment of anxiety I may have shown.

ETA: Other member's posts have empathised with my feelings and thoughts, so I don't nessesarily believe that my reaction is isolated, or over the top.:)

[Blueberry Crumble]

I have only seen one circed penis in my life and it was just an accidental glance at a little boy at DS swimming... I couldnt believe that people still get this done.

[blubber]

I do not have boys, my Dh is circ'd and therefore believes he would like his boys to be. Ot that we have any ....yet!!!!

Not having a penis i was never really sure what I would want for my boys. I found it a bit strange to do a procedure on something that was born the way it was.

My outlawas are of old school, " the baby should look like dad" they never question the procedure as such? and I think DH has been lead to believe that way.

....I was talking to my uncle one day about this, he is a Vietnam Vet and his descriptions of the non circ'd men there was horrifying.
OK so i know it will be a rare occurance for our generation of boys to cross those paths but as a mother of girls with an undecided mind about circ i keep coming back to that.

Just my thoughts.

[miloand4]

I can understand why you felt this way and dont think anyone has the right to tell you how you can and cant feel about something we all feel differently about different things. While someone else may not have felt sick at this that does not mean you do not have the right to your own feelings. I can never understand anyone telling anyone else how they should FEEL about something how can you do that:confused: I am sure you love your nephew very much and I understand that this was about a feeling you had in regards to something not in regards to him :D

[sweetsugardumplin']

I can understand why you felt this way and dont think anyone has the right to tell you how you can and cant feel about something we all feel differently about different things. While someone else may not have felt sick at this that does not mean you do not have the right to your own feelings. I can never understand anyone telling anyone else how they should FEEL about something how can you do that:confused: I am sure you love your nephew very much and I understand that this was about a feeling you had in regards to something not in regards to him :D

Thank you :hugs:

[lilboysmum]

Ahhh.... I like a good debate...

If my DS needed it done, it would be done. I had a moment where our GP thought it might be a possibility so I had to think about it. Otherwise he can choose this when he is old enough to make the decision. I figure, why fix what aint broke.... it's covered for a reason.

If we lived in unhygienic 3rd world conditions like our ancestors I would probably consider it but we have running water, better education on hygiene and better hygiene practices...

Given the nature of hereditary conditions... if FOB had another body part issue, eg.. heart transplant... would i anticipate the same problem and insist on my baby having a heart transplant just in case, or would we just take better care of the heart and health...

Parents are generally free to do what they think is in the best interest of their children, doesn't make their choices right, but that is the culture we live in. In other cultures, they circ girls...........

[reAllytee]

While you are entitled to your opinion & how it all made you feel i find it rather sad for your nephew if infact he did pick up on your feelings or noticed your expression.

We had Boof done after a few infections & yep maybe we did jump the gun we will never know we just did the best we could with the knowledge at the time.

We also took into consideration that well yep dad is done & that dad has 'survived' ( and yes i know not all men are like this im talking about from our experiences no one elses ! ) as has our immediate family so this came into play when it came time to make a decision.

I changed my mind numerous amounts of times when it came to Squeak because i was stupid fearing the whole 'one son done & the other not' but then figured everyone is different so be it ! We got to him being 5mths of age & the decision being taken away from us even more so than with Boof.

If you had seen the state of his penis & what he went through every single day in regards to pain etc. That would make you cry.

Seeing your son's ( or in this case nephews ) penis so ulcerated, red, raw & bloody that it even ooozed then trust me this 'feeling sick' would feel like a walk in the park !

Sometimes little boys arent circ'ed for the hell of it & feeling sorry for our little guys really isnt necessary.

[lilboysmum]

Also meant to say... when something is 'red', of course your gonna notice and worry... it's what we do as parents... and it's normally natures indication that something is out of kilter (bites, bumps, infections etc....)

I think I would have thought about the parents decision and what it meant for a little boy to go thru that surgery too... i read scary internet stories about the procedure on newborns and was physically sick.:barf:

P.S Forum is a great way to get your thoughts out in the open without offending those you love....

[neostudded]

sweetsugardumplin :(:hugs:
I fully understand your feelings.

[hailsntwang]

There was never any question about whether or not we were going to get our son circumsised (he's not). Even if DH had of wanted it done (he is also not) I would have stood my ground on this one.

My nephew did get done however. It's due to his father being Jewish and wanting to keep within tradition.

I understand religious views. I don't necessary agree with them but I understand.

One of my friends also got her little boy done 3 months ago and they have had nothing but problems with it since. The poor fella has had infections and all sorts of stuff wrong with him since. They also had no religious, family traditions for getting it done and now they have to face what may be a future of problems that could have been avoided ( their son never had any problems before he had the proceedure).

We are not religious, no one else in the family has had the proceedure, no one in our family has had any problems and so therefore, for me, I would have no reason to get it done. (does that make sense???:confused:)

What i'm trying to say is that the future can't be predicted. What is right for one person is not necessary right for another. I guess it can depend on what you have been led to believe, surrounded by growing up. There is no proven right or wrong, just our emotions and our beliefs telling us what is right or wrong.

[Lillynix]

I think as parents/aunts/uncles/adults.. it's our responsibility to encourage kids to be happy with THEIR bodies

Exactly.

We as parents should be promoting good, positive body image messages to our children about THEIR body. Oh, but hang on, if it is THEIR body, why do WE have the right to chop off part of THEIR penis? Oh that's right, we DON'T have that right, we just like to think we do :rolleyes:

Part of good body image is teaching how to be accepting of our bodies, what sort of image are we portraying if we keep chopping off part of our son's anatomy!?

To the OP, I totally understand how you feel and I don't think you overreacted at all, I too would have felt ill :hugs:

[Verdi]

Exactly.

We as parents should be promoting good, positive body image messages to our children about THEIR body. Oh, but hang on, if it is THEIR body, why do WE have the right to chop off part of THEIR penis? Oh that's right, we DON'T have that right, we just like to think we do :rolleyes:

Part of good body image is teaching how to be accepting of our bodies, what sort of image are we portraying if we keep chopping off part of our son's anatomy!?

To the OP, I totally understand how you feel and I don't think you overreacted at all, I too would have felt ill :hugs:

Parents have the right to do what they think is in their childs best interest whether it is for medical or religious reasons, they do it out of love and out of their parental right.
I personally will not circumsice any of my boys unless medically necessary but i would never ever tell a parent what is right or wrong when it comes to such decisions. Parents are just that parents they do what is in accordance to their morals, beliefs and circumstance whether you agree with it or not. Harsh words such as amputaion and chopping of a body part is not at all necessary, why not focus on real horrid parents, I am friends and know many jewish people to have such derragtory comments made to them as parents cause they circ their sons, is absoloutely horrendous when parents like them are absoloutely the most beautiful people you have ever met.

To the OP i understand your shock and i understand it as i personally will not circ unless necessary, but it might of been a shock cause you have not seen one before and it is different looking, not necessarily horrible IFKWIM.

[Nan]

I cant believe knowing what we know now that people still think its ok to modify there babies genitals I am so ashamed that I did
Don't be sorry Milo. You were doing what you thought was best at the time and this is all we can do, as parents.

I think as parents/aunts/uncles/adults.. it's our responsibility to encourage kids to be happy with THEIR bodies.. regardless of whether they are circ'd, have their ears pierced, have large birthmarks, freckles, different skin colour, abnormalities or any other trait.

A penis is a penis is a penis to a 4yr old. Let's not project adult anxieties/feelings onto kids.
Well said. :iagree:

[PreetyInPink]

Sorry... but I think you've gone way over the top.

This is a healthy little 4yr old boy.. who most probably doesn't think there's ANYTHING 'wrong' or 'sick' or 'sad' about his circ'd penis. Just like your son wouldn't think there's anything 'different' or 'wrong' or 'dirty' about his...

I hope to god he didn't notice or pick up on your reaction to his penis. How would a 4yr old interpret an adult reacting in recoil to their body parts???

I think as parents/aunts/uncles/adults.. it's our responsibility to encourage kids to be happy with THEIR bodies.. regardless of whether they are circ'd, have their ears pierced, have large birthmarks, freckles, different skin colour, abnormalities or any other trait.

His parents made a decision based on their famliy history and concerns, just as you made a decision based on yours.

A penis is a penis is a penis to a 4yr old. Let's not project adult anxieties/feelings onto kids.

I 100% agree. Its quite sad that many parents DON'T circumcise their children for aesthetic reason eg. because more people are opting for not circumcising and want them to look the same as the majority so they dont have to deal with feeling different etc but yet if they see a circumcised boy they make out as if its abnormal or are discusted by it, so youre doing what you didnt want your boy(s) to go throughs to those children that have been circumcised. We dont know the reasoning behind it and I dont understand why people have to go and look out for it in change rooms and pools and then feel 'sick' by it..how would you like it if someone looked at your boy like that? Each to their own i say, theres alot more to parenting than that.

[sweetsugardumplin']

I 100% agree. [quote]Its quite sad that many parents DON'T circumcise their children for aesthetic reason eg. because more people are opting for not circumcising and want them to look the same as the majority so they dont have to deal with feeling different etc :confused:

I think many parents are making an informed decision to not subject their baby boys to a painful and unnessesary procedure.


We dont know the reasoning behind it and I dont understand why people have to go and look out for it in change rooms and pools and then feel 'sick' by it.. Umm I wasn't going out of my way to look at my nephew's bits! :rolleyes:


how would you like it if someone looked at your boy like that? Let me stress, yet again - I caught a glimpse of his penis as I helped him onto the toilet, I did not yell, scream, faint, recoil in horror or display any overt behaviour toward my nephew. My response was shock and I felt nauseas - that's all, I did not pre-meditate this response - it just happened.

Let me share a quick story, with a similar theme. A few years ago I met a gorgeous four year old girl from Papa New Guinea, this little girl had fallen into a camp fire. The left side of her face, from the jaw was fused to her collar bone, the remainder of her face had melted: fusing her lips partially and her left eye.

My first response when I saw her was shock, my blood ran cold and I felt nauseas. (I tend to have a physical response like this when I see certian things - it is not something I have control over)

Anyway, the little girl and I went on to become firm friends.

My point is, I don't go out looking for circumsised penises - that would be wrong on so many levels. But I saw something and I felt something.That's all.

[Nowhere]

I really hope that you can get over the way YOU feel about his penis, I am not saying i agree nor disagree with the fact he is circed fact is its done now and its the way it wil remain but he doesnt need your pitty kids pick up on things like that

[PreetyInPink]

Sorry I was in a rush typing that so I don’t think I made my point clear. What I was saying, were that some people posted that their reasons for not circumicising also included the fact that they did not want their children to feel different as more people are now not circumcising. But what I dont get is if you didn’t want your children to feel disparaged or ‘different’ why would you do it to somebody elses child, who’s parents obviously just had a different belief or reason on the matter. I find that a contradiction in itself.


I know why his parents did it, for possible medical reasons (my BIL, D nephew's dad had a lot of problems with his foreskin retracting...TMI I know)

So in that case it was necessary, was it not? The issue isn’t whether he should be circumcised or not. That is not up to you obviously. It is done, but the way yourself and others have described it as 'raw' 'damaged' 'yuck' etc i find that unnecessary and

disobliging. We all have different beliefs, and i think we should try and respect that.




I think many parents are making an informed decision to not subject their baby boys to a painful and unnessesary procedure.

its not always unnecessary as you stated above.


Umm I wasn't going out of my way to look at my nephew's bits! :rolleyes:

Er..well yes i know that. I wasnt referring to you.
My nephew is circumcised (and it was absolutely necessary for medical reasons) and I would hate to see people look at him in revolt or judge my sister as to why she ‘modified’ her child. It is a legal procedure. And as I said before we do not know the reasons why or should we judge them for it. As you said that many make informed decisions not to circumcise im sure many (not all) that do circumcise have researched and have made their own informed decisions.


Let me stress, yet again - I caught a glimpse of his penis as I helped him onto the toilet, I did not yell, scream, faint, recoil in horror or display any overt behaviour toward my nephew. My response was shock and I felt nauseas - that's all, I did not pre-meditate this response - it just happened.

That’s fine, I just found the way you described it as 'damaged' in your op, i saw as a negative connotation. Just like you have chosen not to circumcise, you wouldnt want somebody referring to your sons penis as 'dirty'. It just about tolerating differences really.


Let me share a quick story, with a similar theme. A few years ago I met a gorgeous four year old girl from Papa New Guinea, this little girl had fallen into a camp fire. The left side of her face, from the jaw was fused to her collar bone, the remainder of her face had melted: fusing her lips partially and her left eye.



Thats horrible, Poor little thing. :(

[Sammilee]

Quote:
Originally posted by Sammilee
:iagree: His parents did it as they probably thought it was in their son's best interest, just like you have by not circ'ing your son.

Quote:
Originally posted by jjj199
Why do parents on this forum look only to whether someone is a parent in deciding whether what someone did was right?

The only qualification someone needs to make a correct decision about thier child, is to be a parent?

All parents have this inherent ability to *know*?

There cannot be double standards between children. Either child A's parents made the correct decision and child B's parents made the incorrect decision, or vice versa.

There can be no two completely opposite decisions taken, but both being equally "correct". That defies logic. *someone* has to be WRONG in what they did.

I didn't think I had made a comment that I thought the nephew's parents made the 'right' decision to circ just because they are his parents :confused:. If my full post had been quoted it would be seen that I also wrote...


:iagree: His parents did it as they probably thought it was in their son's best interest, just like you have by not circ'ing your son.

I don't judge people for doing it or not doing it as it's ultimately their own child and not mine, and I believe parents do things in the best interest of their child/ren (whether we agree or not agree with it).

Therefore I was purely making a comment in response to the original OP about how I don't judge people for the things they do/ don't do.

I honestly believe that parents do things that they believe are in their child/ren's best interest, whether or not I agree with them. I believe that parents, caring and loving parents, would not deliberately do something to their child if they believed it was in detriment to them (if a parent did do something in full belief that it was deliberately doing harm to the child then that is a totally different story). Therefore in relation to this scenario, that's why I said that the nephew's parents circ'd their son as they believed it was in his best interest. I did not cast a judgement on their decision to circ.

And really, what right do I have to judge someone for doing something when I have no idea what their thought processes were when making their decision? I may be totally against it myself but I have no idea what lead them to making the decision they made. Just as I don't like, want or need other people to judge me for the things that I do/ don't do with my children as they have no idea what research I have done, past experiencing I have had etc etc. And this is not just in reference to circ'ing, it's in relation to all the parenting decisions we make. Yes, people should be free to offer their thoughts and opinions and experiences to others, that's fine, but no-one should think that others should accept it as the 'right' opinion. Tolerance; the world would be a better place with a great deal more tolerance.

[delirium]

But I really can't reconcile how a small baby or child could be subjected to such a procedure....especially if there are no current medical reasons as to why.

I have read many posts and thread on this......but I still don't get it.



Then if you've read the million threads about anti-circers 'not understanding' and 'just wanting to debate', you would have read the reasons why parents circ. Just because you don't understand or agree with it doesn't make it wrong.

I find it interesting that those that don't circ seem to know more about the process than those who get it done :confused: The constant statements about how much pain the child is in... but how do you all know? A few anti circ videos? We say over and over that these children have 2 forms of pain relief and that many just lay there. But the same threads come up making uninformed statements about the process and reasons for circumcison.

Really the bottom line is it's up to the parent. The parents I know that have circed their boys have made decisions based on research, (and whether people agree it's valid, it's there, particularly in relation to infection and STD's) and lots of discussion between the couple and their families.


While you are entitled to your opinion & how it all made you feel i find it rather sad for your nephew if infact he did pick up on your feelings or noticed your expression.

We had Boof done after a few infections & yep maybe we did jump the gun we will never know we just did the best we could with the knowledge at the time.

We also took into consideration that well yep dad is done & that dad has 'survived' ( and yes i know not all men are like this im talking about from our experiences no one elses ! ) as has our immediate family so this came into play when it came time to make a decision.

I changed my mind numerous amounts of times when it came to Squeak because i was stupid fearing the whole 'one son done & the other not' but then figured everyone is different so be it ! We got to him being 5mths of age & the decision being taken away from us even more so than with Boof.

If you had seen the state of his penis & what he went through every single day in regards to pain etc. That would make you cry.

Seeing your son's ( or in this case nephews ) penis so ulcerated, red, raw & bloody that it even ooozed then trust me this 'feeling sick' would feel like a walk in the park !

Sometimes little boys arent circ'ed for the hell of it & feeling sorry for our little guys really isnt necessary.

:iagree: with everything you said Ally :D

[Sarahmum24]

I think the reason some people may be shocked is because they know the procedure is painful, and I know if it was my nephew i'd feel sorry for him too, not because he is circed but because he had to go through pain, weather it is for medical reasons or not, it does hurt but i wouldn't be grossed out by it.

[Phyllis Stein]

I believe they feel pain because I imagine I'd feel pain = empathy, plus I've read enough testaments from nurses and the like, who've assisted circ operations and claim that the children can get quite distressed, though they all express it differently.

I think we need to remember that extremely new, obviously pre-verbal babies express pain very differently to an older child or adult. I know when I badly nicked (:() my then 3 month old son's finger while clipping his nails, he gave one loud yelp, then went a bit glassy eyed, demanded a feed, and promptly fell asleep, although he had not been at all tired a few minutes beforehand. Someone observing might have concluded that he felt no distress - I'd bet anything that if he's been tested right then and there, his cortisol levels would have been very high, and that sleep was a protective response. As for whether that scarred him for life, I'd doubt it, but if it'd been stronger pain, on a very sensitive part of his body, in a strange, clinical environment, surrounded by strangers, and being held or strapped down, then the compounded effect of all of those things as a formative experience on a brand new baby would be extremely significant, IMO. And the fact that he's going through all of that, so that an important and valuable part of his body will be removed permanently, simply adds to the general injustice of the situation.

The old argument that parent's have the right to choose obviously has a limit somewhere -tattoos? FGM? Nose piercings? Cosmetic surgery? Anything that harms or hurts a child for no justifiable reason should be beyond the scope of 'parental choice', IMO. I have no doubt whatsoever that routine male circumsicion will one day be considered a thing of the past - that day can't come too soon for my liking.

I don't think circed penises look intrinsically "gross", but I too would find it hard to look at one (that I knew to be unneccessary) on a child, without feeling some level of revulsion - not at the child or his penis, but at our society that still condones a specialised medical procedure being performed on perfectly healthy, but helpless infants.

[NibbleCurlynBub]

I agree, the niceties won't last long!

Honestly, I do not think it is up to you to decide.

I guess nowadays we have things like anaesthetic and things to make it a virtually painless procedure and he would surely not be having any pain from it now.

I worry about my DS having foreskin issues. Since his dad is circ'ed we do not know what sort of foreskin he will inherit. :no:

But I guess time will tell and if there is a problem it will be dealt with.

[Jeclipse]

I think its a very personal topic for different familie's, whos to say if its right or wrong though!

Did HE have a problem with it?
I think as long as hes happy and healthy, why feel sickened and saddened about him?:confused:

[mumbron]

I think its a very personal topic for different familie's, whos to say if its right or wrong though!

Did HE have a problem with it?
I think as long as hes happy and healthy, why feel sickened and saddened about him?:confused:
:iagree:

[NibbleCurlynBub]

One thing though, I do hope he didn't pick up on it.

Its one thing to circ or not but its another thing entirely to inadvertently make a child self-conscious of themselves or make them feel like their body is not 'normal' or okay for whatever reason..

[mizmiz]

Parents have the right to do what they think is in their childs best interest whether it is for medical or religious reasons, they do it out of love and out of their parental right.
I personally will not circumsice any of my boys unless medically necessary but i would never ever tell a parent what is right or wrong when it comes to such decisions. Parents are just that parents they do what is in accordance to their morals, beliefs and circumstance whether you agree with it or not. Harsh words such as amputaion and chopping of a body part is not at all necessary, why not focus on real horrid parents, I am friends and know many jewish people to have such derragtory comments made to them as parents cause they circ their sons, is absoloutely horrendous when parents like them are absoloutely the most beautiful people you have ever met.

To the OP i understand your shock and i understand it as i personally will not circ unless necessary, but it might of been a shock cause you have not seen one before and it is different looking, not necessarily horrible IFKWIM.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


If i have a little boy- I will definately 100% have him circumcised. FYI =-Its religious reasons, as the parent i know i am making the right decision with my child.

I find it amusing when parents say - the circumcised child will feel abnormal when they see non-circumcised boys at school. But what if its the other way around.

My nephews are all circumcised, they think it looks weird and everything else but a penis.

[PaperTiger]

Trust me, when I say that I have NEVER known a days old neonate to NOT suffer excruciating suffering when this procedure is performed on them.
For those that choose to believe that they don't, well continue to believe it then and stay in the comforting denial bubbles, but that won't stop the infants from feeling the pain that they feel, no matter how much one chooses to believe otherwise. How anyone can believe that a baby does not suffer when bits of their penis are lopped off is astounding.

To the OP, I can understand your feelings of nausea. There were many times I actually vomited when I witnessed or even heard them being performed. :gloomy: That was not at all because of what it looked like-having assisted at far more major surgery-but purely because the suffering of the baby was so utterly distressing.

[Phyllis Stein]

:iagree: Trust me, when I say that I have NEVER known a days old neonate to NOT suffer excruciating suffering when this procedure is performed on them.
For those that choose to believe that they don't, well continue to believe it then and stay in the comforting denial bubbles, but that won't stop the infants from feeling the pain that they feel, no matter how much one chooses to believe otherwise. How anyone can believe that a baby does not suffer when bits of their penis are lopped off is astounding.

To the OP, I can understand your feelings of nausea. There were many times I actually vomited when I witnessed or even heard them being performed. :gloomy: That was not at all because of what it looked like-having assisted at far more major surgery-but purely because the suffering of the baby was so utterly distressing.

I can't even begin to imagine how hard that must have been for you. I find it distressing enough to watch the circ videos on youtube. :(

[shed]

We chose not to do it to our kid, but I like to read what others have to say. I have read just about every word on it that has been written on here and read some of the studies posted and haven't found a reason to get it done so he will stay as he is.

If he had a medical reason for it then yep, no worries, but that's not in question on here anyway. I don't think anyone would deny a child the proper medical treatment to any of their body parts. But that's not in question either.

I don't think it will ever be illegal, but as we are currently seeing, its something that most people in society are starting to frown upon and its not medically recommended at birth like it used to be, so maybe one day it will only be done on those who actually need it.

[mizmiz]

Anyways ladies - im going to leave it at ....Each to their own....:)

I dont understand why parents would not immunise their child...but thats their child NOT MINE.

These debates never come to an end unless a thread is closed and another opened.

[~Mands~]

Given the nature of hereditary conditions... if FOB had another body part issue, eg.. heart transplant... would i anticipate the same problem and insist on my baby having a heart transplant just in case, or would we just take better care of the heart and health...


:iagree:

I usually only read these threads, but I just had to say I agree with your comments lilboysmum :).

My son is intact and DH being circ'd or uncirc'd would not have influenced my decision. Nor would I have 'let' DH decide.

I believe DS's body parts are his and his alone and that is why we chose to leave him intact. My opinion :):).

I cant say I would 'feel sick' though, but can understand how others would. It must be a horrible thing for babies to go through, I remember watching a video where a circ was performed on a popular website and it wasn't very nice :(.

[xkwzit]

I have had to delete a few off topic posts from this thread. The OP was discussing her feelings about realising her nephew was circed. If you want to discuss other general circ issues, please feel free to start a new thread for them.

I also want to remind ppl of the guidelines for language (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=120819) used when posting in any of the circ sections. Some earlier posts have been edited, any more in this thread that require editing will receive infractions.

Thanks

[MummyStar]

We had our Baby Boy circumcised & one of the main reasons that we decided to have him circumcised is because my Husband is NOT circumcised & he has said that if he had a choice as a Baby that he would have chosen to be circumcised for the following reasons (to name a few):
Hygiene...Sure we can teach our boys how to clean themselves & be hygienic but I doubt it's a priority when they're out camping with the boys!
Much easier to keep clean (at any age).
When old & quite possibly not as hygieinic as in the younger years there is less chance of infections & it's much easier for carers to clean if required.
Our friends son has a few friends that were not circumcised & they have had terrible infections so they have been circumcised at between 2-5 years of age after several painful infections.
When making our decision it wasn't based on how he would look compared to friends or his Dad as there has always been those that are done & those that aren't done in every generation.
I honestly can't comment on the pain factor as I haven't undergone the procedure myself but I can tell you that there was a boy at the centre aged 10 years old walking around straight after his procedure in the waiting room happily playing a computer game & I don't think that he was pretending not to be in pain.
As an adult I have been in a relationship with both, a circumcised & uncircumcised male & it has not changed the way that I have felt about that person in the slightest, that's the way they are, by their parents choice...either way the parents have made the decision for them.
We make major decisions for our babies & children until they are able to make choices for themselves & we make our choices for them out of love, in hope of a wonderful life for them. There are so many more decisions that we will make for our children that will influence their lives so much more then if they have or haven't been circumcised.