Did anyone feel pressured by the Doctors/midwives ?

[amies]

Hi all,
Im 17weeks up the duff...
and I will be choosing not to vaccinate my baby but have friends who hav opted not to vax and the docs & midwives hav given them a hard time about it...im so worried cause thats the last thing id want after childbirth...
what hav u ladies found?

[Benji]

I found the opposite.

My baby's dad asked the midwife in regards to immunisation: "what do you recommend" and she just said she couldn't answer that for us.

[~Emmylou~]

This is a really interesting question to me because it's something I've been seeing a bit of lately.

I'm a doula so I'm often present in the birthing room when this topic is being discussed between parents and doctors.

There seems to be a rather common scenario in which hospital staff nod and smile, and are perfectly agreeable to delayed Hep B and no Vitamin K throughout pregnancy and even up to the point when you arrive in labour and they're looking over your birth plan - and then when the baby is actually in your arms the guilt tripping starts. Sometimes it's only subtle - sometimes it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer. It's so much harder to think clearly when you're overcome with meeting your baby... and they know that is the time when you're most likely to be swayed.


Vitamin K gets them especially worked up - Hep B mostly is OK.

My advice would be to do your research thoroughly. Know your stuff inside and out. That way if you do encounter someone who is intent on swaying your decision, you're not second guessing yourself because you already know all the facts.

[amies]

This is a really interesting question to me because it's something I've been seeing a bit of lately.

I'm a doula so I'm often present in the birthing room when this topic is being discussed between parents and doctors.

There seems to be a rather common scenario in which hospital staff nod and smile, and are perfectly agreeable to delayed Hep B and no Vitamin K throughout pregnancy and even up to the point when you arrive in labour and they're looking over your birth plan - and then when the baby is actually in your arms the guilt tripping starts.

Sometimes it's only subtle - sometimes it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Vitamin K gets them especially worked up - Hep B mostly is OK.

My advice would be to do your research thoroughly. Know your stuff inside and out. That way if you do encounter someone who is intent on swaying your decision, you're not second guessing yourself because you already know all the facts.

thanks for the replys :)


emmylou - I will also be opting out for the vit K shot...Im thinking of attaching a few brochures and names of books Ive read to my birthplan :D just so they can be sure Im making a informed decision...
Hmmm Im just wondering should I tell hospital staff that Im planning to delay vaccination instead of not vaccinating at all...mayb that will keep them off my back...
?

[Phyllis Stein]

Sometimes it's only subtle - sometimes it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer. It's so much harder to think clearly when you're overcome with meeting your baby... and they know that is the time when you're most likely to be swayed.

That was my experience (in bold). At the time, I was in such a haze of exhaustion and euphoria, that I was a verrry easy target. My OB started the guilt trip while I was having the first cuddle with DS. Literally, she was saying, "I'd hate for your baby to be one of the ones that dies", etc etc. :banghead: All the research I'd done just flew out of my head and we ended up relenting and giving him the oral dose, something I've regreted ever since. :(

My advice - tell them (or have your support person tell them) - when you first arrive that you are not having the Vit K/ Hep B, and firmly state that it is not up for negotiation. Be really firm and no nonsense. My mistake was trying to be 'nice' and 'polite' about it.

Good luck!

[~Emmylou~]

Definitely you could just say you're delaying with the Hep B and you won't have any problems.

It's just the Vitamin K because that has to be given either at birth, or the oral dose within a few days of birth otherwise it's useless. So that's why they tend to put more pressure on with that one.

It certainly does help if you include information with your birthplan that shows them that you've researched your options and made an informed choice. You might still get grief depending on the views of the person who attends your birth, but that is definitely a good way of minimising it. :)

And everything mahna said ;)

[amies]

thanks for the support & advice ladies :) it really is much appreciated

[OneNowOneLater]

Vaxination was never talked about with with the DR's and middies.

Same here.

[amies]

so you both didnt vaccinate your kids? and didnt cop a earful???

[reAllytee]

With Boof we got them done but with Squeak we were going to go for the oral Vit K but then couldnt be bothered so opted out of both that & the Hep B.

No issue :no:

Now we did go & get his 2mths done but then after his reaction i realised that we wouldnt be doing them at all until he was around the 12mth mark.

We havent even had any issues since not even when he has been admitted to hospital.

We have had questions asked but thats it. No pressure, no rudeness or condemnation etc. We seem to have it lucky !

Wednesday was the day we trialled him being almost 12mths old on a vax to see whether we could very very slowly start to introduce them but it looks like again we will be waiting.

So we are back to being the parents of a child who isnt vaxxed ..... Anyone who has a problem with that can stick it where they like. Dont care who they are doctor, lawyer, the pope ... It aint happening !

[OneNowOneLater]

Both precious princess and i have vaccinated our dd's, however we were just stating that we were never really approached by drs/middies re. vaccinating. thats all.

[amies]

no dont get me wrong the thresd is open to whoever :)
its just that usually the non-vaxers cop an earful...from what Ive heard...its a non-issue if you are a vaxer cuz it doesnt go against hospital policy

[Fuchsia!]

Nope, they didn't even talk about, i don't even remeber signing anything, being asked or anything! They just seemed to have gone ahead and done it. AT the time at both my births i had no idea about non vaxxing, i thought it was for the paranoid hippys. How wrong i was!

Any future babies will not be vaxxed. Im so glad i have done my research

[Harriet]

I was asked at about 35 weeks whether I wanted DS to have Hep B and Vit K. After I gave them a resounding NO, they clearly wrote on my yellow hospital record card that we didn't want either.

I didn't think much about it after that.....just figured they had some system where they would check the card before doing anything. DS was taken to special care after the birth and you know what?????? THEY GAVE HIM VIT K WITHOUT OUR CONSENT:( I am still haunted by this....it feels like such an invasion.

I did get hassled a bit about Hep B, but I know my stuff (better than the doctor did actually). He had some lame argument about me living in the Inner West of Sydney and the dangers of DS contracting Hep B at childcare from SE Asian children:detective:

[GregMonarche]

Well, I'm not a lady, but...

There are two parts to our non-vaccination/birth experience. The first part was reasonably easy. The second part was an absolute nightmare.

Before/during the birth everyone was fine about it - BUT be aware - they do it so routinely with most babies, that mistakes can be made.

For instance. With our second son, we refused the Vitamin K needle - but due to my lack of knowledge at the time, we allowed them to talk us into the oral version. We found out years later they had then given him the needle anyway by mistake!

My wife had our #3 in June. Just like previous times, many people came and went from the room - especially if there's a shift change. So we had to tell several people that we did not want to vaccinate.

The first person was the midwife supposed to attend the birth. She noted it down where any midwife would later read. She couldn't attend, so we had another midwife. That one skimmed my wife's notes and missed the info, so we had to tell her. Her shift soon ended and we had to mention it again to the next one. There was different nurse by now too... You get the idea. You get sick of saying it after a while. Most were fine about it. But we got weary of saying it continuously - and a few times answer their "why nots" as well.

Moments after mentioning it to the last midwife, a nurse came in with a small plastic tray with a couple of needles. I asked what they were for. "It's to help birth the placenta, and the Vitamin K shot... [pause] if you're having it." (I hadn't heard there was an injection to birth the placenta AS WELL - and quietly rolled my eyes to myself. For goodness sake - have the drug manufacturers made a needle to interfere with EVERY bodily function?) I replied we did NOT want the Vitamin K, and would wait and see if the placenta came naturally first, thanks. "That's fine, we'll just leave it here in case you change your mind." She said.

I thought things were going pretty easy at this point. Even though we had to keep saying it, no-one had really raised an eyebrow over it. Bub arrived and was moved to ICU because his lungs didn't open fully according to everyone else's timetable. All staff (until the doctor I'll get to later) made us aware this was a minor thing. Many babies have this they said, and soon recover after a short stay in ICU.

Then stage two started.

Most were respectful of our decisions. But one nurse in ICU asked our reasons, then condescendingly began to lecture me, and nearly began an argument over it, as if OUR decision not to vaccinate, was a personal insult directed at HER decision to do so. She cited all the usual hogwash about "all those diseases you haven't seen will come back if everyone stopped vaccinating". (If you've researched even slightly, which it sounds like you have, you would already know this is wrong on various levels.)

Later a (training) doctor tried to ram Vitamin K down our throats, demanding our reasons and saying that once we gave him those reasons, he would proceed to refute every one of them. (As if anyone would even bother!) He'd seen our son less than two minutes - he contradicted everyone else that morning by saying our son had "bad bruising and a difficult birth" - and tried to scare us into believing he would die from bleeding in his brain. All this after what everyone else had described as a normal, uneventful, birth, with minor bruising to be expected with a quick labor. Not mention all babies are born Vit K deficient anyway - AND - they were preventing my wife from breastfeeding, which would have colonised his gut with Vitamin K naturally.

Needless to say we rarely left bub in ICU alone after this. Most people were fine but it only takes one careless person to go against your wishes. We just couldn't trust them alone with him after that doctor. The next day they proved our mistrust was valid.

I already mentioned no breastfeeding was allowed. They had talked us into using formula "to keep his blood sugar up". This also meant he was not hungry to be breastfed. His blood sugar fell slightly anyway. Despite my wife being in ICU when that fell - and saying she would be back in just a few minutes - while she was away they put a drip in his arm against our wishes. All he really needed was to breastfeed!

The doctor had wanted Vitamin K so much he humiliated us in ICU - yet wouldn't let my wife breastfeed which would have colonised our son's gut with Vitamin K naturally - they said the formula would keep his blood sugar up - but his blood sugar fell - which led to a drip being place in his arm against our wishes and behind our back while my wife was out of the room. To top it all off, most of this was caused by not breastfeeding - yet they said the reason they wouldn't let my wife breastfeed was because it could interfere with his breathing - but later when we had left ICU, a nurse told us babies are nasal breathers anyway!? So if we had breastfed back in the labor ward on day 1 - his lungs would have opened in the same time - he would have not needed a drip - and we would have been home the same day, instead of three days later with a baby now unable to breastfeed because he'd only been fed on a tube!

No matter how many times you say "No", there'll someone who will forget which room you were in, and bring the needles in anyway, leave them for the next person, which will make someone else think they must administer them, because they wouldn't be sitting there unless you're having them like everyone else that week, right?

We went into the hospital with a good, relaxed attitude, expecting our decisions would not necessarily be understood, but respected. We left a pair of humiliated, nervous wrecks with zero sleep and a baby who struggled to breastfeed for days.

Everyone had made such a big deal about how the hospital we went to (John Hunter in Newcastle), saying people's individual decisions are respected when compared to other hospitals. But the truth is, your decisions are only respected as long as they agree with the doctor's opinions.

If there's a next time for us - we won't be going to the hospital. There's a natural birthing centre another 20km away that we'll go to instead. However we've been told they may not take us, being over 40. So if we have another child and they won't let us go there - it will either be a home birth for us, or I'll take a big sign to hospital saying:

NO VACCINATION.
NO EXPLANATION GIVEN.
NO EXCEPTION.

You try to have a good attitude and not act like the fanatic they always accuse non-vaccinators of being. The truth is, THEY CREATE the bad attitudes and fanatics. If you're respectful and calm, they either treat you like an idiot, or ignore your wishes. It's only when you act like a rabid fanatic, they finally tread on eggshells and keep their big mouths shut.

[Phyllis Stein]

That's absolutely outrageous, Greg! I really feel your frustration.

Thanks for sharing your story - hopefully it may help someone else be more vigilant.

[OneNowOneLater]

I may be a vaccinator, but the way you and your wife were treated Greg, is absolutely appalling! I honestly believe everyone is entitled to make that decision (vax vs non vax) by themselves, and should have those decisions accepted, whether the other person disagrees with them or not.

[GregMonarche]

I may be a vaccinator, but the way you and your wife were treated Greg, is absolutely appalling! I honestly believe everyone is entitled to make that decision (vax vs non vax) by themselves, and should have those decisions accepted, whether the other person disagrees with them or not.

Thanks to you - and the previous poster.

[stellarella]

There seems to be a rather common scenario in which hospital staff nod and smile, and are perfectly agreeable to delayed Hep B and no Vitamin K throughout pregnancy and even up to the point when you arrive in labour and they're looking over your birth plan - and then when the baby is actually in your arms the guilt tripping starts. Sometimes it's only subtle - sometimes it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer. It's so much harder to think clearly when you're overcome with meeting your baby... and they know that is the time when you're most likely to be swayed.


Vitamin K gets them especially worked up - Hep B mostly is OK.



This is precisely my experience...we were basically told our baby could die without Vit K and of course a couple of new, sore, tired parents meeting their precious babe for the first time are easily swayed by this. We ended up feeling so pressured that we gave oral Vit K....one of my biggest regrets and the source of much anger.

Be prepared to be guilted/shamed and treated like a silly new mum and have your reply ready on auto...."No thanks, we have made our decision, no further discussion will be entered into."

GPs will in my experience also hound you about vaccinations. If you ever take your child to the ER because it's after hours and they have a fever etc. Be prepared for a lecture and to again be treated like irresponsible children.

I'm sorry if this is freaking you out, but it pays to be prepared and have all your replies on auto so they don't get to you. They are trying to break you down, that is their intention.

We have withstood the pressure (apart from the initial Vit K) for 2 years now and it gets easier...good thing is your bub is likely to get fewer illnesses being un-vaccinated and therefore you can avoid the doctors as much as possible :thumbsup:

xxx

[Tici]

If you ever take your child to the ER because it's after hours and they have a fever etc. Be prepared for a lecture and to again be treated like irresponsible children.

This happened to my friend the other day in ER!!!!!
They were like a pack of dogs !!

[Tici]

Yes I felt very pressured.
At my 38 week appointment with midwife they asked about Hep B and Vit K. and I even signed forms objecting to the both of them.

Yet after I gave birth every midwife that came on shift over the next 48 hours would talk to me about it. After I declined they would ask why in their condescending tones and offer me a chance to speak to a pediatrician regarding my decision.:banghead: I had to be so firm to the point of almost being rude to them.

Its just disgusting that they try to wear you down like this at such an overwhelming time for a new mum and dad. :no:

[veve]

closed for cleaning

[shed]

We decided not to have either of the injections, we have no history of any obscure blood clotting disorders on either side so we decided he was allright with what he came with as far as Vitamin K goes.

No Hep B which we were hassled about when we went back for phototherapy for jaundice a few days later, everyone seems to think you owe them an explanation, I think they somehow forgot that he was my baby not theirs. I just said our decision was final for the moment thanks.

It was written on my birth plan, it was written on my yellow card thing and my doula also informed them of it. Having a doula made them unsurprised at the no vax thing anyway I think. the delayed cord clamping and wish to deliver the placenta naturally gave them some indication as well, so the midwives were fine about it.

It was some registrar who seemed to think he was owed an explanation. he didn't get one. the only person I need to explain to is bubby, if he ever asks.

[naiwen]

I certainly felt pressured by the Nurse manager and the neonatologists to have myself, DH and DS immunsied against pertussis asap.

Their reason for this was that there had been cases of it the community in brisbane that winter and given DS size at discharge and the state of lungs and immune system it would have been a death sentancce for him.

I agreed with them and got it all done.

I think had I been totally opposed to vaxxes they would have applied a lot more pressure and even delayed his discharge, I can't say for sure though.

He didnt have Hep B at birth as they dont give it too babies weighing under 1Kilo

[reAllytee]

See we have never ever been treated badly or the likes in regards to Squeaks vaccinations status & he has been in hospital a few times now for various reasons since birth.

Again i guess we are just lucky !

[amies]

I was asked at about 35 weeks whether I wanted DS to have Hep B and Vit K. After I gave them a resounding NO, they clearly wrote on my yellow hospital record card that we didn't want either.

I didn't think much about it after that.....just figured they had some system where they would check the card before doing anything. DS was taken to special care after the birth and you know what?????? THEY GAVE HIM VIT K WITHOUT OUR CONSENT:( I am still haunted by this....it feels like such an invasion.

I did get hassled a bit about Hep B, but I know my stuff (better than the doctor did actually). He had some lame argument about me living in the Inner West of Sydney and the dangers of DS contracting Hep B at childcare from SE Asian children:detective:

Im so angry for you!!! I cant beleive they would do such a thing as not even getting your consent

[amies]

Well, I'm not a lady, but...

There are two parts to our non-vaccination/birth experience. The first part was reasonably easy. The second part was an absolute nightmare.

Before/during the birth everyone was fine about it - BUT be aware - they do it so routinely with most babies, that mistakes can be made.

For instance. With our second son, we refused the Vitamin K needle - but due to my lack of knowledge at the time, we allowed them to talk us into the oral version. We found out years later they had then given him the needle anyway by mistake!

My wife had our #3 in June. Just like previous times, many people came and went from the room - especially if there's a shift change. So we had to tell several people that we did not want to vaccinate.

The first person was the midwife supposed to attend the birth. She noted it down where any midwife would later read. She couldn't attend, so we had another midwife. That one skimmed my wife's notes and missed the info, so we had to tell her. Her shift soon ended and we had to mention it again to the next one. There was different nurse by now too... You get the idea. You get sick of saying it after a while. Most were fine about it. But we got weary of saying it continuously - and a few times answer their "why nots" as well.

Moments after mentioning it to the last midwife, a nurse came in with a small plastic tray with a couple of needles. I asked what they were for. "It's to help birth the placenta, and the Vitamin K shot... [pause] if you're having it." (I hadn't heard there was an injection to birth the placenta AS WELL - and quietly rolled my eyes to myself. For goodness sake - have the drug manufacturers made a needle to interfere with EVERY bodily function?) I replied we did NOT want the Vitamin K, and would wait and see if the placenta came naturally first, thanks. "That's fine, we'll just leave it here in case you change your mind." She said.

I thought things were going pretty easy at this point. Even though we had to keep saying it, no-one had really raised an eyebrow over it. Bub arrived and was moved to ICU because his lungs didn't open fully according to everyone else's timetable. All staff (until the doctor I'll get to later) made us aware this was a minor thing. Many babies have this they said, and soon recover after a short stay in ICU.

Then stage two started.

Most were respectful of our decisions. But one nurse in ICU asked our reasons, then condescendingly began to lecture me, and nearly began an argument over it, as if OUR decision not to vaccinate, was a personal insult directed at HER decision to do so. She cited all the usual hogwash about "all those diseases you haven't seen will come back if everyone stopped vaccinating". (If you've researched even slightly, which it sounds like you have, you would already know this is wrong on various levels.)

Later a (training) doctor tried to ram Vitamin K down our throats, demanding our reasons and saying that once we gave him those reasons, he would proceed to refute every one of them. (As if anyone would even bother!) He'd seen our son less than two minutes - he contradicted everyone else that morning by saying our son had "bad bruising and a difficult birth" - and tried to scare us into believing he would die from bleeding in his brain. All this after what everyone else had described as a normal, uneventful, birth, with minor bruising to be expected with a quick labor. Not mention all babies are born Vit K deficient anyway - AND - they were preventing my wife from breastfeeding, which would have colonised his gut with Vitamin K naturally.

Needless to say we rarely left bub in ICU alone after this. Most people were fine but it only takes one careless person to go against your wishes. We just couldn't trust them alone with him after that doctor. The next day they proved our mistrust was valid.

I already mentioned no breastfeeding was allowed. They had talked us into using formula "to keep his blood sugar up". This also meant he was not hungry to be breastfed. His blood sugar fell slightly anyway. Despite my wife being in ICU when that fell - and saying she would be back in just a few minutes - while she was away they put a drip in his arm against our wishes. All he really needed was to breastfeed!

The doctor had wanted Vitamin K so much he humiliated us in ICU - yet wouldn't let my wife breastfeed which would have colonised our son's gut with Vitamin K naturally - they said the formula would keep his blood sugar up - but his blood sugar fell - which led to a drip being place in his arm against our wishes and behind our back while my wife was out of the room. To top it all off, most of this was caused by not breastfeeding - yet they said the reason they wouldn't let my wife breastfeed was because it could interfere with his breathing - but later when we had left ICU, a nurse told us babies are nasal breathers anyway!? So if we had breastfed back in the labor ward on day 1 - his lungs would have opened in the same time - he would have not needed a drip - and we would have been home the same day, instead of three days later with a baby now unable to breastfeed because he'd only been fed on a tube!

No matter how many times you say "No", there'll someone who will forget which room you were in, and bring the needles in anyway, leave them for the next person, which will make someone else think they must administer them, because they wouldn't be sitting there unless you're having them like everyone else that week, right?

We went into the hospital with a good, relaxed attitude, expecting our decisions would not necessarily be understood, but respected. We left a pair of humiliated, nervous wrecks with zero sleep and a baby who struggled to breastfeed for days.

Everyone had made such a big deal about how the hospital we went to (John Hunter in Newcastle), saying people's individual decisions are respected when compared to other hospitals. But the truth is, your decisions are only respected as long as they agree with the doctor's opinions.

If there's a next time for us - we won't be going to the hospital. There's a natural birthing centre another 20km away that we'll go to instead. However we've been told they may not take us, being over 40. So if we have another child and they won't let us go there - it will either be a home birth for us, or I'll take a big sign to hospital saying:

NO VACCINATION.
NO EXPLANATION GIVEN.
NO EXCEPTION.

You try to have a good attitude and not act like the fanatic they always accuse non-vaccinators of being. The truth is, THEY CREATE the bad attitudes and fanatics. If you're respectful and calm, they either treat you like an idiot, or ignore your wishes. It's only when you act like a rabid fanatic, they finally tread on eggshells and keep their big mouths shut.


My heart goes out to you greg, Im so scared of going thru something similar... :confused:

[faery]

we felt a bit of pressure. we're non-vax but my dp didn't have a huge issue with the vit K, as "it's a vitamin and not a vaccination". anyway, I decided to hold off on a total decision until after the birth and see how it went.

no one made an issue out of the hep B. our GP (who we did shared care with) was totally supportive of not vaxing. the midwives were the ones who were gung-ho about it.

after the birth (which wasn't traumatic, but long and with breathing issues), our doc recommended the vit k injection rather than the oral. my partner wanted it as well. i still didn't in my heart, but allowed it with my head, if that makes any sense.

i remember the middies got grouchy with us for me wanting the insert (to check the ingredients before consenting) and to make sure it was only vit k, and not something else.

[Lillynix]

None at all.

With DS the middies asked if he was to have Vit K/Hep B, I said no, that was that.

However I did have DS 2month vaxx done as I hadn't thought much about it, then lastweek when he went to the GP for his 6month check, the nurses brought in the vaxxes, pointed out that he hadn't yet had his 4month ones, the GP asked them to leave, asked if he would be having any vaxxes today, I said 'no thank you' she asked if I wanted to talk about it, I said 'no thanks, we've done our research already' GP said 'yep that's fine' and that was that. No questions, no attitude change, no nothing. I love her!

[PaperTiger]

I know it's hard for most to stick to your guns, but for those that want to, do it for your baby. No matter how much pressure you are put under by a midwife, and they are the ones dishing out all the newborn vaccines, they have absolutely no power to "make" you do anything that you don't want to do. Stay strong for the sake of your precious baby.

Until I saw the light I was the one doing the vaccinating. :gloomy: Although I never pressured anyone and was always glad when anyone said no and happily obliged them, I still feel an enormous guilt for those I did jab. It's one of the many reasons I will not work in the hospital system any longer, no matter how great the shortage of midwives is.

[bindiloo]

After id given birth and the subject came up again my doc said to me "well your a very silly girl",he was simply ignored because i couldnt give two hoots what he thinks. Its my baby and im the one who lives with the side effects if she copped any.
This baby i will b having it written in my notes for the midwives and my doc(yes same one);) to see that my baby is to recieve no vaccinations at all and there is to be no questions asked because it will be met with a simple "mind your own business".
Basically its none of their business and dont let them bully you,be confident and repeat in your head "no and thats our final decision".

[MamaLlama]

I wasn't even asked about it. I am guessing your friend was "loud and clear" about it pre birth which is why she got an earful.

Think about it like this, a Dr or good midwife knows how important it is to public health that everyone who CAN get vaccinated does. So they'd be irresponsible if they did not try to convince parents who were against it.

True they can't make you. But they have a duty to a) protect the child and b) protect the public. Vaccination is an important part of that for anyone who knows how disease and vaccination works (ie anyone with medical training).

I totally disagree with your decision, but I accept that no one can make you do it. However I am not suprised if people hear a lot of lecturing from their health professionals as a result, if they didn't then the health professionals should really be chucking it in because they've ceased to act in the interests of health.

If you're really definite on not vaccinating (which may or may not be clear, maybe they think you're persuadable) then I'm afraid hearing why that is dangerous is part of the package with your decision.
Not rudeness of course but information to show how safe and important it is. I have a sister with egg allergies so she can never receive certain vaccines. I have an aunt with autoimmune issues post cancer treatment, she can't have any of her waning immunity topped up with more vaccines. Those people depend on herd immunity, which means 95% of people (or nearly everyone else) needs to be vaccinated. My cousin's newborn also relies on herd immunity because he's too young to be vaccinated for most things.

[text removed]
My point is not to rant at you. My point is that's why it is something that forms a responsibility of every trained health professional.

[~Emmylou~]

Completely OT here...mamaoffour, so glad to see you back.
You have been missed :)

[PaperTiger]

Awwwwww thanks Emmylou....:hugs:

Never fear, I will, along with many of my colleagues in the midwifery and medical profession continue to help those on the other side of the great debate see the light.
More and more of them, to my great delight, are seeing the truth. ;)

[~Emmylou~]

Awwwwww thanks Emmylou....:hugs:

Never fear, I will, along with many of my colleagues in the midwifery and medical profession continue to help those on the other side of the great debate see the light.
More and more of them, to my great delight, are seeing the truth. ;)

You rock! :flowerz:

[Moorish]

Ladies I urge you all to keep your posting polite, considerate to other people's opinions and on topic.

There have already been a number of posts edited or deleted and I'd like to see this thread continue to travel well.

Cheers,
Anna :)

[julietv8]

I copped a lot of pressure about the hep B and the vitamin K after my birth. My lovely middie just put a note down saying he had the vit K (even though he hadn't) but the next day I was on my own with a horrible nurse insisting he have the second dose, and saying they wouldn't let me leave without him having it, so after a while I just said "fine, but I'll give it to him" and held the side of his face (concealing his mouth from her view) and squirted it into a tissue in my hand.

I got the same reaction from a few CHN and doctors too for being a non vaxxer. They look at you like you are an idiot, then give you spiel about how safe they are etc. I'm sick of it frankly...my baby, my choice! (by the way I completely support other peoples choice to vax, or partially vax if you feel that is what is best for you and your baby :thumbsup:)

[~Emmylou~]

I copped a lot of pressure about the hep B and the vitamin K after my birth. My lovely middie just put a note down saying he had the vit K (even though he hadn't) but the next day I was on my own with a horrible nurse insisting he have the second dose, and saying they wouldn't let me leave without him having it, so after a while I just said "fine, but I'll give it to him" and held the side of his face (concealing his mouth from her view) and squirted it into a tissue in my hand.



That's disgusting Julie that you had to do that to get them off your back :mad:

Even though they say it all the time, no one in the hospital can force you to stay there, just the same as no one can take your baby away from you - to special care, or away from you in recovery after a c/s - if you refuse to allow it.

It's one of the biggest abuses mothers are subjected to in hospital - all of this "if you don't do X your baby will have to stay here/go to special care etc etc. It's your baby and no one can even touch it in the hospital without your say so ;)